Warriors of God?

[-Cp]

Has anyone heard about this show?

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/gods.warriors/

[Hagbard Celine]

Hell yes, I've been promoting it for a month.

[-Cp]

Hell yes, I've been promoting it for a month.

Any idea what's it's about?

[theHawk]

Any idea what's it's about?

No doubt its going to downplay the seriousness of Islamic Jihad by showing everyone the Jews and Christians basically do the same stuff.

[Hagbard Celine]

No doubt its going to downplay the seriousness of Islamic Jihad by showing everyone the Jews and Christians basically do the same stuff.

Conspiracy theories aside, this is the description from my office email:


PROGRAM ALERT

GOD'S WARRIORS
Protestors who kill for their religious beliefs. “Patriot Pastors” who seek to change American culture through the ballot box. Zealots who target prime ministers and presidents with
assassination for “subverting God’s will.” Parents who reject science education in conflict with their religious principles. Suicide martyrs who are revered as iconic heroes. These are “God’s Warriors” of Christianity, Islam and Judaism. They see contemporary society as corrupt and view themselves as the front line of defense in a battle for cultural supremacy and political power. They are changing the world.

CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour journeyed to seven countries over seven months to report for God’s Warriors, a CNN Presents worldwide television event about the global phenomenon of religious fervor upon politics, culture and public life. During six hours broadcast over three consecutive days, CNN will reveal how “God’s Warriors” want to bring religion back from the periphery to the center of public life - and how far they are willing to go to transform modern society.

God’s Warriors includes thought-provoking interviews with former U.S. President Jimmy Carter; the late Rev. Jerry Falwell in his last television interview; Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Muslim women’s rights advocate; Yehuda Etzion, a founder of the Israeli settlement movement; and Israeli President Shimon Peres.

Each program is 2 hours.

[glockmail]

No doubt its going to downplay the seriousness of Islamic Jihad by showing everyone the Jews and Christians basically do the same stuff.
My guess exactly.

Protestors who kill for their religious beliefs. No doubt Christians defending themselves, or a lone abortionist killer will be shown as "killing for their religious beliefs". Never mind that muslims have schools dedicated to churning out suicide bombers.

[darin]

what a crock of horseshit.

[Hagbard Celine]

So you guys are going to write this off before you even see the show? Nice. Says a lot.

[darin]

because Christians don't people up. (shrug).

[theHawk]

I caught parts of the Jewish show. It showed the absurd racism and apartheid that is openly practiced in Israel. It makes me feel ill that we pour billions of taxdollars into this insane asylum.

I'll try to watch the muzzie one tonight.

[Dilloduck]

So you guys are going to write this off before you even see the show? Nice. Says a lot.

I watched it. It portrayed Jews as having their own radical elements and terrorist bombers. So far I think they have the show pegged pretty well. My bet is they will continue to portray every religion as having an "evil" side and try to lead viewers to believe that is somehow makes all religions equal.

[avatar4321]

Yeah i saw the advertisements for it. I just dont really care about seeing it. it seemed like a hit piece to me.

However, i think we should be warrior for God. We need to fight for what's right. And i dont mean by killing others. I mean by doing whats right and through persuasion, longsuffering, patience, kindness brotherly love etc.

[truthmatters]

equally corruptable.

They are institutions and any institution can be corrupted.

[avatar4321]

equally corruptable.

They are institutions and any institution can be corrupted.

Any human can be corrupted too. that doesnt mean institution or humans are worthless and cant do much good in the world.

[Dilloduck]

equally corruptable.

They are institutions and any institution can be corrupted.

People are the corrupt ones.

[truthmatters]

I believe most people are mostly good.

When there is a power structure it attracts the ones who would like to use that power to their own means.


I believe religion should avoid the threat and avoid power structures.

[Hagbard Celine]

Tune-in tonight! It's the Muslim episode!

[Dilloduck]

I believe most people are mostly good.

When there is a power structure it attracts the ones who would like to use that power to their own means.


I believe religion should avoid the threat and avoid power structures.

That's like saying a woman in a binkini is asking to be raped. :lame2:

[theHawk]

Tune-in tonight! It's the Muslim episode!




Do you work for the Clinton News Network or something?

[Dilloduck]

Tune-in tonight! It's the Muslim episode!

Shouldn't take long to see which way they are going with it. My test will be if they can remain factual with out resorting to condemning nor trying to rationlize Islam.

[truthmatters]

That's like saying a woman in a binkini is asking to be raped. :lame2:


No it is not.

Its like saying dont give away your brain and soul to the guy down the street or the guy with the kool aid pitcher.

[avatar4321]

I believe most people are mostly good.

When there is a power structure it attracts the ones who would like to use that power to their own means.


I believe religion should avoid the threat and avoid power structures.

But they arent mostly good. All people are corrupt as a result of the Fall. We are imperfect. Given to natural passions without restrain men would oppress and kill each other.

Power doesnt corrupt people. Corrupt people corrupt power.

[Dilloduck]

No it is not.

Its like saying dont give away your brain and soul to the guy down the street or the guy with the kool aid pitcher.

the "guy " down the street is a person. NOT an institution.

[truthmatters]

When you stand him in front of your church and call him the preacher and he tells you how to think about what the bible says you have given him the power.

[truthmatters]

But they arent mostly good. All people are corrupt as a result of the Fall. We are imperfect. Given to natural passions without restrain men would oppress and kill each other.

Power doesnt corrupt people. Corrupt people corrupt power.


I believe most people are mostly good.

I did not say I thought anyone was perfect.

The fall part is your religion and I dont believe in it ,I dont mind that you do but you really cant expect me to.

I believe we are capable of the restraint and I believe man can do it.

Maybe this is why religion should stay out of government and government should stay out of religion.

I think our founders had that right.

sorry but I have to go, have a pleasant evening all!

[Hagbard Celine]

Do you work for the Clinton News Network or something?

HAHAHAHAHA! Yes I do. Tune in.

[Dilloduck]

I believe most people are mostly good.

I did not say I thought anyone was perfect.

The fall part is your religion and I dont believe in it ,I dont mind that you do but you really cant expect me to.

I believe we are capable of the restraint and I believe man can do it.

Maybe this is why religion should stay out of government and government should stay out of religion.

I think our founders had that right.

sorry but I have to go, have a pleasant evening all!

Institutions don't run without people.

[Swarm]

I believe people are inherently evil. Strip away the "civilization" and we all become animals fighting for survival.

[truthmatters]

People created civilization.

People for the most part wnat to be good to each ohter.

[Dilloduck]

People created civilization.

People for the most part wnat to be good to each ohter.

Oh ya--bin laden is just one big teddy bear. :laugh2:

[Abbey Marie]

I believe people are inherently evil. Strip away the "civilization" and we all become animals fighting for survival.

So true. Just look at any stampede of people for food, water, even xboxes.

[diuretic]

I believe people are inherently evil. Strip away the "civilization" and we all become animals fighting for survival.

Humans aren't inherently "evil" just as animals aren't inherently "evil". We have instincts which have to be trained but "evil" is a cultural definition anyway so it's not innate.

[Dilloduck]

Humans aren't inherently "evil" just as animals aren't inherently "evil". We have instincts which have to be trained but "evil" is a cultural definition anyway so it's not innate.

What's wrong with our instincts and who decides how they should be altered?

[Yurt]

Conspiracy theories aside, this is the description from my office email:


CNN will reveal how “God’s Warriors” want to bring religion back from the periphery to the center of public life - and how far they are willing to go to transform modern society.

Is this a bad thing?

[Dilloduck]

Is this a bad thing?

If it involves killing it is.

[theHawk]

WOW, I knew that muslims were wacko, but HOLY MOSES! The piece about the "Hidden Imam" had me laughing out loud so hard. Not only do those kooky Iranians(including their derranged President) believe a muslim cleric that mysteriously disappeared long ago will return, but when he does return it will cause a great problem with the Christians since they won't believe in him. So, these muslims believe that Jesus will return as well to tell the Christians to follow the HIDDEN IMAM. LMAO.
It is pretty scary though, that these very lunatics will soon get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

[Dilloduck]

WOW, I knew that muslims were wacko, but HOLY MOSES! The piece about the "Hidden Imam" had me laughing out loud so hard. Not only do those kooky Iranians(including their derranged President) believe a muslim cleric that mysteriously disappeared long ago will return, but when he does return it will cause a great problem with the Christians since they won't believe in him. So, these muslims believe that Jesus will return as well to tell the Christians to follow the HIDDEN IMAM. LMAO.
It is pretty scary though, that these very lunatics will soon get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

times a tickin' and they ain't joking. Anyone thinking that ignoring them will make them go away really needs to go have a chat with them. Jane ?--Go visit them would ya ? Jesse ? anyone ??

[Gaffer]

WOW, I knew that muslims were wacko, but HOLY MOSES! The piece about the "Hidden Imam" had me laughing out loud so hard. Not only do those kooky Iranians(including their derranged President) believe a muslim cleric that mysteriously disappeared long ago will return, but when he does return it will cause a great problem with the Christians since they won't believe in him. So, these muslims believe that Jesus will return as well to tell the Christians to follow the HIDDEN IMAM. LMAO.
It is pretty scary though, that these very lunatics will soon get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

Yep Hawk, they are a serious bunch of wackos and they are seriously looking to start an apocalyptic war. And the libs think they can be reasoned with.

[theHawk]

times a tickin' and they ain't joking. Anyone thinking that ignoring them will make them go away really needs to go have a chat with them. Jane ?--Go visit them would ya ? Jesse ? anyone ??


Oh but according to Christiane Amanpour these are just tiny fringe elements that abhorr muslims just as much as everyone else.
:rolleyes:

[theHawk]

Btw,

I am The Hidden Imam!!!

[Dilloduck]

Yep Hawk, they are a serious bunch of wackos and they are seriously looking to start an apocalyptic war. And the libs think they can be reasoned with.

It's getting more clear to me all time that people actually believe that it is possible to avoid a conflict with this ideaology. The Shia and Sunni can't even live together without killing each other. Fat chance they have of getting along with anyone else. Secular progressives are scared shitless and well they should be. They love what Islam hates.

[Guernicaa]

They're all fucking disgusting IMO.

[Dilloduck]

Oh but according to Christiane Amanpour these are just tiny fringe elements that abhorr muslims just as much as everyone else.
:rolleyes:

ya--just a tiny bunch of people who want to kill everyone---no biggie. If we are nice to them they won't make us be like them.

[Gaffer]

ya--just a tiny bunch of people who want to kill everyone---no biggie. If we are nice to them they won't make us be like them.

I would still like to know what a small minority of 1.5 billion is?

[theHawk]

Can't wait for tomorrow's show. I can already guess its going to harp on the Christians that attacked abortion clinics, and the evangelical preachers that preach that Israel is the fulfillment of scriptures.

[Dilloduck]

I would still like to know what a small minority of 1.5 billion is?

You gotta quit thinking like that--it depresses people who think we can live in peace forever.

[Gaffer]

You gotta quit thinking like that--it depresses people who think we can live in peace forever.

Yeah I'm just a bubble buster.

[diuretic]

What's wrong with our instincts and who decides how they should be altered?

Nothing "wrong" with our instincts, they exist independent of any moral judgement about them. But to get along with each other we have to ensure we control them in a socially (culturally) acceptable way.

[diuretic]

WOW, I knew that muslims were wacko, but HOLY MOSES! The piece about the "Hidden Imam" had me laughing out loud so hard. Not only do those kooky Iranians(including their derranged President) believe a muslim cleric that mysteriously disappeared long ago will return, but when he does return it will cause a great problem with the Christians since they won't believe in him. So, these muslims believe that Jesus will return as well to tell the Christians to follow the HIDDEN IMAM. LMAO.
It is pretty scary though, that these very lunatics will soon get their hands on a nuclear weapon.

I get more or less the same feeling when I watch evangelical Christians. All those seemingly sane people believing in an Invisible Friend.

[diuretic]

Yep Hawk, they are a serious bunch of wackos and they are seriously looking to start an apocalyptic war. And the libs think they can be reasoned with.

Have you checked out the Evangelicals who want war with Iran so that the End of Times will arrive? Seriously wacko people.

[diuretic]

I would still like to know what a small minority of 1.5 billion is?

The largest Muslim nation in the world is Indonesia. Just north of Australia. Moderate, democratic government (albeit corrupt as all get out) which controls those it sees as Muslim extremists. Pro-western.

Population - 234,693,997 (July 2007 est.) (some are Hindu or animists, but a very small minority).

It's nice to know that Indonesia isn't likely to take on the west.

[diuretic]

Can't wait for tomorrow's show. I can already guess its going to harp on the Christians that attacked abortion clinics, and the evangelical preachers that preach that Israel is the fulfillment of scriptures.

Every religion has its nutters.

[diuretic]

You gotta quit thinking like that--it depresses people who think we can live in peace forever.

Are you a proponent of the idea of permanent war?

[Dilloduck]

Are you a proponent of the idea of permanent war?

ya---I just would rather do it without bullets, bombs and beheadings tho.

[Dilloduck]

Nothing "wrong" with our instincts, they exist independent of any moral judgement about them. But to get along with each other we have to ensure we control them in a socially (culturally) acceptable way.

Getting along is a good idea. I've always sorta liked "Live and Let Live". Could you pass that concept on to the Muslims for me please ?

[diuretic]

ya---I just would rather do it without bullets, bombs and beheadings tho.

I don't think it's possible.

[glockmail]

I get more or less the same feeling when I watch evangelical Christians. All those seemingly sane people believing in an Invisible Friend. If an atheist dies in a church, what do they put on his coffin?

[diuretic]

If an atheist dies in a church, what do they put on his coffin?

"I Was Only Visiting"?

[glockmail]

"I Was Only Visiting"?
Answer: "a lid". :coffee:

[diuretic]

Answer: "a lid". :coffee:

:laugh2::clap:

[truthmatters]

Every religion has it fringe sects which do insane things.

The catholic church used to kill people all the time.

Christains kill people to stop abortion.

The whole Kool Aide drinking phrase comes from a christian sect gone crazy.

Theres a guy who calls himself satan and has a million christains following him as we speak.

There is this country which is run by this guy who says hes a christain and got millions of christains to vote for him because of it who says God wanted him president and is invading countries in the middle east who have done nothing to interfere with his country.

[Dilloduck]

Every religion has it fringe sects which do insane things.

The catholic church used to kill people all the time.

Christains kill people to stop abortion.

The whole Kool Aide drinking phrase comes from a christian sect gone crazy.

Theres a guy who calls himself satan and has a million christains following him as we speak.

There is this country which is run by this guy who says hes a christain and got millions of christains to vote for him because of it who says God wanted him president and is invading countries in the middle east who have done nothing to interfere with his country.

Where is there a sect of Christianity who condones killing NOW.

[diuretic]

Getting along is a good idea. I've always sorta liked "Live and Let Live". Could you pass that concept on to the Muslims for me please ?

No need, been done. Saladin. As opposed to the Crusaders in the Sack of Jerusalem who slaughtered innocents. Moral, don't bullshit. Christianity is as able to be corrupted in its own name as any other religion.

[Dilloduck]

Every religion has it fringe sects which do insane things.




ahhhhh so that makes it ok----
:laugh2:

[diuretic]

Where is there a sect of Christianity who condones killing NOW.

I remember reading St Augustin and St Thomas Aquinas on the principles of a just war.

[Dilloduck]

No need, been done. Saladin. As opposed to the Crusaders in the Sack of Jerusalem who slaughtered innocents. Moral, don't bullshit. Christianity is as able to be corrupted in its own name as any other religion.

---when was the last time a Christian cell blew up Muslim skyscrapers ?

[diuretic]

ahhhhh so that makes it ok----
:laugh2:

How do you draw that conclusion?

[Dilloduck]

I remember reading St Augustin and St Thomas Aquinas on the principles of a just war.

And what were they----?

[diuretic]

---when was the last time a Christian cell blew up Muslim skyscrapers ?

I can't recall it happening.

Now about the slaughter of the innocents in Jerusalem by the Crusaders...was it right?

[diuretic]

And what were they----?

War is just under certain circumstances.

[glockmail]

...

The catholic church used to kill people all the time.

.....

:link:

[Dilloduck]

War is just under certain circumstances.

Like if someone is in your country---did they think that was good reason to kill them ?

[Dilloduck]

I can't recall it happening.

Now about the slaughter of the innocents in Jerusalem by the Crusaders...was it right?

Slaughter is never right---oh I get it---you think that we have some payback coming that we should just "accept" as some kind of karma.
I didn't have slaves and I didn't ransack Jerusalem. What's the next historical crime you want me to own up to? :laugh2:

[diuretic]

Like if someone is in your country---did they think that was good reason to kill them ?

It doesn't address that. It assumes nation v. nation.

[Hagbard Celine]

:link:

Ever heard of the crusades or the inquisition genius?

[diuretic]

Slaughter is never right---oh I get it---you think that we have some payback coming that we should just "accept" as some kind of karma.
I didn't have slaves and I didn't ransack Jerusalem. What's the next historical crime you want me to own up to? :laugh2:


Slaughter is never right

Agreed.

[Hagbard Celine]

Oh ya--bin laden is just one big teddy bear. :laugh2:

*people for the most part.

[truthmatters]

Where is there a sect of Christianity who condones killing NOW.

Are you not aware we are a country of christains?

Are you not aware of the people who constantly try to convience people this country was founded on christianity?

Now when you see countries which are predominately Muslim do you take into consideration the fractions of people in those countries which are not Muslim and worry about them?

No you just say they are Muslims and we need to put them in their place.

We are percieved as a Christain country and our President makes sure of that by calling things Crusades.

[Hagbard Celine]

Is this a bad thing?

Not necessarily.

[truthmatters]

---when was the last time a Christian cell blew up Muslim skyscrapers ?


do you remember "Shock and Awe"?

[Dilloduck]

Are you not aware we are a country of christains?

Are you not aware of the people who constantly try to convience people this country was founded on christianity?

Now when you see countries which are predominately Muslim do you take into consideration the fractions of people in those countries which are not Muslim and worry about them?

No you just say they are Muslims and we need to put them in their place.

We are percieved as a Christain country and our President makes sure of that by calling things Crusades.

We are--yet the Christian COMMUNITY had nothing to do the installation of the shah. We only need to protect ouselves from Muslims who think it's spiritual to kill us.

[truthmatters]

We are--yet the Christian COMMUNITY had nothing to do the installation of the shah. We only need to protect ouselves from Muslims who think it's spiritual to kill us.


Then why the F@#k are we in Iraq?

[Dilloduck]

do you remember "Shock and Awe"?

You mean when after being warned a million times we bombed Iraqs MILITARY/GOVERNMENT infrastructure. ( all after dropping leaflets to tell the civilians to get the hell out of there ? ) your analogies are silly.

[truthmatters]

Bagdad is not a military target.

Lie to yourself if you like but it doesnt pass the smell test to anyone who knopws anything about this whole mess.

[Dilloduck]

Bagdad is not a military target.

Lie to yourself if you like but it doesnt pass the smell test to anyone who knopws anything about this whole mess.

Buildings in Baghdad certainly WERE military targets---You think those anti aircraft guns shooting at our planes were fake ?

[truthmatters]

http://www.marchforjustice.com/shock&awe.php

here is some pictures for you to look at.

[truthmatters]

Its time for people like you to start THINKING about what your knee jerk reaction foriegn policy does to this world and how it effects America for the rest of time to come.

We cant take back killing these people because some Cowboy you thought you might like to have a beer with Told the world He was a Christain and that God wanted him to be president of the most powerful country in the world so he could go into countries which were completely incapable of doing us any harm and then be STUPID enough to call it a crusade when its a mideast Muslim country.

This will go down in history as the WORST foriegn policy blunder ever made by an American president and you still cant see it.

[glockmail]

Ever heard of the crusades or the inquisition genius? Extremely smart, definitely, but genius? Perhaps. :coffee:

She brought up this same accusation just a few days ago and got her butt blown off with facts about those historical events.:slap:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=104049&postcount=17

[Hagbard Celine]

Extremely smart, definitely, but genius? Perhaps. :coffee:

She brought up this same accusation just a few days ago and got her butt blown off with facts about those historical events.:slap:

You mean the fact that Catholic Christians forced conversion on people through torture and murdered people they labeled as heretics? Those facts?

[Gaffer]

Its time for people like you to start THINKING about what your knee jerk reaction foriegn policy does to this world and how it effects America for the rest of time to come.

We cant take back killing these people because some Cowboy you thought you might like to have a beer with Told the world He was a Christain and that God wanted him to be president of the most powerful country in the world so he could go into countries which were completely incapable of doing us any harm and then be STUPID enough to call it a crusade when its a mideast Muslim country.

This will go down in history as the WORST foriegn policy blunder ever made by an American president and you still cant see it.

Why don't you just admit that you hate Bush. You just still mad about the 2000 election. It warped your brain back then and you have never been the same since. Like all the other moonbats.

[truthmatters]

Extremely smart, definitely, but genius? Perhaps. :coffee:

She brought up this same accusation just a few days ago and got her butt blown off with facts about those historical events.:slap:


You are deluosional.

Tell us again how the crusades were all the middle easts fault again?

He is the only person on earht who seems to think this.

[truthmatters]

Why don't you just admit that you hate Bush. You just still mad about the 2000 election. It warped your brain back then and you have never been the same since. Like all the other moonbats.

As soon as you admitt you want to seduce him and be his Man bride.

[glockmail]

You mean the fact that Catholic Christians forced conversion on people through torture and murdered people they labeled as heretics? Those facts?


You are deluosional.

Tell us again how the crusades were all the middle easts fault again?

He is the only person on earht who seems to think this.

HAG AS I SAID SHE BROUGHT THIS UP PREVIOUSLY AND GOT HER ASS HANDED TO HER:


Both events were Christians fighting back against Muslim occupiers, not quite meeting your definition of "killing people who disagreed with them".


you may want to reasearch what occured between 0 and 1095....


The Crusades were a series of military conflicts brought about in self defense against the muslims attempting to conquer the world and expand their caliphate. As the catholic church was the predominant power at that time it was logical to use the religion to inspire the believers to go forward and fight. It was more a political move than a religious one. The christians had to be as motivated as the muslims were. Taking back Jerusalem was a goal set by the church to inspire the crusaders.

The inquisition was an attempt by the church to maintain power over its subjects. And to keep the nobility in check. It had nothing to do with the crusades.

Armies in those days were paid by ransacking cities. When a city was conquered the soldiers got to take whatever they could carry away. It happened on both sides during the crusades. The promise of loot and the threat of going to hell if you didn't follow orders were the two main factors of both the muslim and christian armies.

They were primitive times with ignorant people and they didn't think as we do today.


From your source, just as I had stated earlier.


You appear to be changing your position now right in front of us for all to see. Originally you stated: "Let me remind you christains [sic] killed people who did not agree with them.”

Your source confirms that the Crusaders “were Christians fighting back against Muslim occupiers”, as I previously stated.

But lets not let mere facts spoil your view of world history.


Are you THAT dense, really? I mean - next you'll ask for PROOF we didn't kill the Nazis "Just because we disagreed with their religious beliefs"

This is how I'd explain it to my 5-year-old son:

"A long time ago, Muslim armies invaded what are known as 'the Holy Lands' to christians and jews. The muslims started KILLING them, so they could take over the land. Okay - Way far away, in a place called England, word of the muslim armies reached the leaders of the land. To help the jews and christians defend against the muslims, the English sent troops to help!"


They didn't just invade the middle east. They first had to take back all of southern europe. They didn't just march to Jerusalem. The wars of the crusades went on for over a hundred years. You really need to read a little more about history.

[Dilloduck]

You are deluosional.

Tell us again how the crusades were all the middle easts fault again?

He is the only person on earht who seems to think this.

:laugh2: This coming from some one who claims--
Bagdad is not a military target.

[Dilloduck]

Then why the F@#k are we in Iraq?

I can guarantee you one thing---it sure as hell isn't because we are a Christian nation.

[theHawk]

Just got done watching the Christian episode.

Let me just say this, John Hagee does not speak for us San Antonian Christians!! He can barely fill a small auditorium with "Christian Zionists".

I thought it was hilarious when they showed Carter and Clinton trying to form a Baptist group the "New covenient" or whatever, to focus on poverty and trying to get Christians to ignore abortion lol. Christiane Amanpour really let Jimmy Carter off the hook there when he blatantly dodged the issue.

I also liked the segment about the Christian conservative that believed we should be taking care of God's green Earth. It was pretty interesting that the other so called Christian conservatives dogged him for his stance.


Wish they would of made a fourth episode, God's......I mean Pond-Scum's Liberal Warriors.

[avatar4321]

Just got done watching the Christian episode.

Let me just say this, John Hagee does not speak for us San Antonian Christians!! He can barely fill a small auditorium with "Christian Zionists".

I thought it was hilarious when they showed Carter and Clinton trying to form a Baptist group the "New covenient" or whatever, to focus on poverty and trying to get Christians to ignore abortion lol. Christiane Amanpour really let Jimmy Carter off the hook there when he blatantly dodged the issue.

I also liked the segment about the Christian conservative that believed we should be taking care of God's green Earth. It was pretty interesting that the other so called Christian conservatives dogged him for his stance.


Wish they would of made a fourth episode, God's......I mean Pond-Scum's Liberal Warriors.

Now im kind of sorry I missed it and wished I could have seen it.

As for the other conversation, I dont see how its humanly possible to not realize the crusades were a reaction to the muslim invasion. I believe they also extended it to the viking threat at one point too.

[Nate]

It makes me feel ill that we pour billions of taxdollars into this insane asylum.

"We"? Did Texas finally start paying more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal government?

[theHawk]

"We"? Did Texas finally start paying more in federal taxes than it receives back from the federal government?

Are you claiming that those of us in Texas that pay federal taxes get re-imbursed from the government? lol

[Guernicaa]

Again, they're all fucking disgusting.

[glockmail]

.....

As for the other conversation, I dont see how its humanly possible to not realize the crusades were a reaction to the muslim invasion. I believe they also extended it to the viking threat at one point too. TruthDoesn'tMatter to some of these flakes. They just hate Christianity.

[JohnDoe]

The whole series was a little frightening to me!

The only one I seemed to truely agree with was the last minister that did speak about God's word on destroying those that destroy the earth...

And how contradictory these ministers that are trying to make warriors and the ones that say they can not be Christian if they don't involve their religion with politics and VOTE and all that crap of these churches involving themselves in the DIRTY, SCUMMY, politics and politicians.....and LYING by stating this is a mandatory Christian duty according to God and Christ...

BECAUSE Christ taught JUST THE OPPOSITE...the pharisees and other religious leaders were CONSTANTLY trying to get Christ involved in the very volitile political arena that was taking place at the time between the Jews and their rulers, the Pagan or secular Romans and NOT ONCE did Christ fall in to their traps to try to draw him in to the political arena at the time....

the most known statement of "give unto Caesar, what is his" by Jesus Christ our Lord.... was AGAIN a confirmation that there should be a separation of Church and the ruling government imo!!!!

[truthmatters]

TruthDoesn'tMatter to some of these flakes. They just hate Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

[truthmatters]

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-Crusades.html

and some more

[truthmatters]

From: A Dictionary of World History | Date: 2000
Print Digg del.icio.us
Crusades A series of expeditions (11th–14th century) to secure Christian rule over the Muslim-controlled holy places of PALESTINE. The wealthy powerful orders of KNIGHTS HOSPITALLERS and KNIGHTS TEMPLAR were created by the Crusades. The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, and was provoked by the rise to power of the SELJUK Turks, which interfered with traditional pilgrimage to Palestine. The pope promised spiritual benefits to warriors willing to fight under Christian banners. The Crusaders captured JERUSALEM in 1099 and massacred its inhabitants, establishing a kingdom there under Godfrey of Bouillon. The Second Crusade (1147–49) succeeded only in souring relations between the Crusader kingdoms, the Byzantines, and friendly Muslim rulers. The Third Crusade (1189–92), prompted by SALADIN's capture of Jerusalem, recaptured Acre but achieved little more. The Fourth Crusade (1202–04) was diverted by Venetian interests to Constantinople, which was sacked, making the gulf between Eastern and Western Churches unbridgeable, though some Crusaders benefited from the division of Byzantine territories known as the Latin empire of the East (1204–61). This briefly replaced the Greek empire at Constantinople until Michael VIII retook the city. Later expeditions concentrated on North Africa, but to little purpose. The fall of Acre in 1291 ended the Crusader presence in the Levant. All, except the peaceful Sixth Crusade (1228–29), were marred by greed and brutality: Jews and Christians in Europe were slaughtered by rabble armies on their way to the Holy Land. The papacy was incapable of controlling the immense forces at its disposal. However, the Crusades attracted such leaders as RICHARD I and LOUIS IX, greatly affected European CHIVALRY, and for centuries, its literature. While deepening the hostility between Christianity and Islam, they also stimulated economic and cultural contacts of lasting benefit to European civilization. See also CHILDREN'S CRUSADE.


http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-Crusades.html

[glockmail]

From: A Dictionary of World History | Date: 2000

Included in your quote: "The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, and was provoked by the rise to power of the SELJUK Turks, which interfered with traditional pilgrimage to Palestine.":coffee:

[glockmail]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

http://www.conservapedia.com/Crusades

:poke:

[Abbey Marie]

Included in your quote: "The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, and was provoked by the rise to power of the SELJUK Turks, which interfered with traditional pilgrimage to Palestine.":coffee:

Oops.

[Hagbard Celine]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Crusades

:poke:

Conservapedia? Seriously?

[glockmail]

Conservapedia? Seriously? In direct response to Wiki, yes.

[Hagbard Celine]

In direct response to Wiki, yes.

Oh, so now Wiki is part of the vast, liberal media conspiracy? Amazing.

[glockmail]

Oh, so now Wiki is part of the vast, liberal media conspiracy? Amazing.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:How_Conservapedia_Differs_from_Wikip edia

Check it out.

[truthmatters]

Included in your quote: "The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, and was provoked by the rise to power of the SELJUK Turks, which interfered with traditional pilgrimage to Palestine.":coffee:

It was their land not the pilgrims land.


How would you react if Muslims arround the world desided that your city was a holy shrine and started swarming your city?

[truthmatters]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Crusades

:poke:

History revised to please the people who can not think for themselves.

[avatar4321]

It was their land not the pilgrims land.


How would you react if Muslims arround the world desided that your city was a holy shrine and started swarming your city?

probably the same way the crusaders acted when they went out and tried to take the Holy Land back.

You know, the reason they started the crusades: To take back lands taken by Muslims.

[truthmatters]

Included in your quote: "The First Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, and was provoked by the rise to power of the SELJUK Turks, which interfered with traditional pilgrimage to Palestine.":coffee:



The Turks objected to the pilgrims using their land as a path to the holey land.

So you are sugesting that any religion has a right to own any land they determine their sacred land?

[glockmail]

It was their land not the pilgrims land.


How would you react if Muslims arround the world desided that your city was a holy shrine and started swarming your city?


Jews came first (5000BC), then Christians who co-existited peacfully. Then came Islam (700AD) and suddenly they resented Jews and Christians. Give us a break lady.

[glockmail]

History revised to please the people who can not think for themselves. And a perfect response to your adulation to wikipedia. :smoke:

[Dilloduck]

It was their land not the pilgrims land.


How would you react if Muslims arround the world desided that your city was a holy shrine and started swarming your city?

I could deal with that easier than I can deal with the fact that they feel free to blow the hell out of anything American. Killing is sorta final. If they swiped something from me I would at least have a chance to swipe it back. Seems only fair.

[glockmail]

The Turks objected to the pilgrims using their land as a path to the holey land.

So you are sugesting that any religion has a right to own any land they determine their sacred land? I think you need to sit back and look at this whole thing with a slightly different perspective here. We are not talking about a war there, and battle here, and a few conflicts here and there unrelated. Islam was created to take over the world by force, most notably Christians and especially Jews. If you look at the reality of the situation, that Judeo-Christianity has been at war with Islam since its inception, you would understand the Crusades much better.

[truthmatters]

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Crusades.html

Lets remember you said that the crusades were the fault of the Muslims.

They lived there and the crusaders did not live there.

It was Christains killing people because of their religion.

The Church was after the control just like the Muslims were so why is it you see one as good and the other as bad?

My original statement whcih started this discussion was that all religions kill in the name of their religion.

[glockmail]

....

My original statement whcih started this discussion was that all religions kill in the name of their religion.

Truth has no meaning to you, does it?


....
The catholic church used to kill people all the time.
......


Maybe you can ask the board owner to change your name to reflect reality better.

[Dilloduck]

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Crusades.html

Lets remember you said that the crusades were the fault of the Muslims.

They lived there and the crusaders did not live there.

It was Christains killing people because of their religion.

The Church was after the control just like the Muslims were so why is it you see one as good and the other as bad?

My original statement whcih started this discussion was that all religions kill in the name of their religion.

Humans kill----period. What do atheists kill in the name of ?

[Hagbard Celine]

Humans kill----period. What do atheists kill in the name of ?

Hunger

[truthmatters]

Truth has no meaning to you, does it?




Maybe you can ask the board owner to change your name to reflect reality better.


http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6074&page=2

You dont have a very good memory do you?

[glockmail]

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=6074&page=2

You dont have a very good memory do you?:lame2:

[avatar4321]

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Crusades.html

Lets remember you said that the crusades were the fault of the Muslims.

They lived there and the crusaders did not live there.

It was Christains killing people because of their religion.

The Church was after the control just like the Muslims were so why is it you see one as good and the other as bad?

My original statement whcih started this discussion was that all religions kill in the name of their religion.

Again, this isnt really disputed history. The crusades were a response to Muslim agression against Europe and the Holy Land. They weren't living their before. The muslims were the ones who conquored that. Even amatuer historians can understand this. Why can't you?

[typomaniac]

Conservapedia? Seriously?

He's probably one of those fruitbars that drinks only conservative coffee, flies only on conservative airlines, and shits only on conservative toilets. :laugh:

[glockmail]

He's probably one of those fruitbars that drinks only conservative coffee, flies only on conservative airlines, and shits only on conservative toilets. :laugh: As conservatism is founded on reality, then you are correct.

[Dilloduck]

Hunger

and gold

[JohnDoe]

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561210/Crusades.html

Lets remember you said that the crusades were the fault of the Muslims.

They lived there and the crusaders did not live there.

It was Christains killing people because of their religion.

The Church was after the control just like the Muslims were so why is it you see one as good and the other as bad?

My original statement whcih started this discussion was that all religions kill in the name of their religion.

TM,

Unlike these other people, I have posted on various boards with you for several years now and if there is one thing that I know about you, is that you are always in search of the Truth...

Now listen to me please, and read the portion of this article from a historian that I am going to post, and read the rest of the article at the link that I will provide you...no one is saying that killing in the name of God when it is unjust was right, but YOU are missing a great deal of the History, behind the crusades and the History of Muslims supporting ruling through Islam of the Sword..... this is what YOU seem to be rewriting history on and denying, sooooo, all I can assume is that you have not done a thorough job, as I think you usually do, in studying the history of this....

jd


...Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. The Crusades are generally portrayed as a series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics. They are supposed to have been the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance, a black stain on the history of the Catholic Church in particular and Western civilization in general. A breed of proto-imperialists, the Crusaders introduced Western aggression to the peaceful Middle East and then deformed the enlightened Muslim culture, leaving it in ruins. For variations on this theme, one need not look far. See, for example, Steven Runciman's famous three-volume epic, History of the Crusades, or the BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. Both are terrible history yet wonderfully entertaining.

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression-an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian lands.

Christians in the eleventh century were not paranoid fanatics. Muslims really were gunning for them. While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity-and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion-has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.

With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt-once the most heavily Christian areas in the world-quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.

That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.

http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm



also, just an fyi on all of the killing wars of the Muslims over the years....I am not saying that this justifies some of the actions of the Crusaders over the years, I am just pointing out HISTORY to you that you seem to be missing....?

just look at this list of all the battles/wars in the name of islam....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_in_the_Muslim_world

List of wars in the Muslim world
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Islam in the world. Green: Sunni, Red: Shia, Blue:Ibadi.
Armed conflicts in the world.Part of the list of wars series.

Contents [hide]
1 Campaigns of Muhammad
2 Battles of the Rashidun Caliphate
2.1 Ridda wars
2.2 Byzantine-Arab Wars
2.3 Islamic Conquest of Persia
2.4 First Islamic civil war
3 Battles of the Umayyad Caliphate
3.1 Byzantine-Arab Wars
3.2 Khazar-Arab Wars
3.3 Moorish Invasion of the Iberian peninsula
3.4 Charles Martel
4 Battles of the Abbasid Caliphate
4.1 Tang Dynasty
4.2 Byzantines
4.3 Mongols
5 Battles of the Kalbids
6 Battles of Córdoba
6.1 Reconquista
7 Battles of the Taifas
7.1 Reconquista
7.1.1 Second Crusade
8 Almoravids
8.1 Reconquista
9 Battles of the Almohads
9.1 Reconquista
10 Battles of the Marinids
10.1 Reconquista
11 Seljuk Turks
11.1 Greater Seljuk
11.1.1 First Crusade
11.1.2 Kingdom of Georgia
11.1.3 Crusader States
11.2 Sultanate of Rûm
11.2.1 First Crusade
11.2.2 Second Crusade
11.2.3 Kingdom of Georgia
11.2.4 Crusader States
11.2.5 Byzantines
11.2.6 Mongol Invasion
11.3 Zengid dynasty
11.3.1 Crusader States
11.3.2 Second Crusade
11.4 Atabegs
11.4.1 Crusader States
11.4.2 Ortoqid dynasty
11.4.2.1 Crusader States
12 Emirate of Tbilisi
12.1 Kingdom of Georgia
13 Battles of the Fatimids
13.1 First Crusade
13.2 Second Crusade
14 Saadi Dynasty (Morocco)
14.1 Reconquista
14.2 Songhai
15 Battles of the Qajar Dynasty (Iran)
16 Battles of the Ayyubids
16.1 Crusader States
16.2 Third Crusade
16.3 Fifth Crusade
16.4 Seventh Crusade
16.5 Mongol Invasion
17 Battles of the Khwarezmian Empire
18 Battles of the Mamelukes (Egypt)
18.1 Crusader States
18.2 Mongol Invasion
18.3 Napoleon
19 Battles of the Mali Empire
20 Battles of the Timurid dynasty
20.1 Timur
20.2 Babur
20.3 Akbar
21 Battles of the Ottoman Empire
21.1 Byzantine-Ottoman Wars
21.2 Ottoman-Serbian War
21.3 Ottoman-Hungarian Wars
21.4 Ottoman-Wallachian War
21.5 Ottoman-Moldavian Wars
21.6 Ottoman-Venetian War
21.7 Knights of Malta-Ottoman Wars
21.8 Ottoman-Persian War
21.9 Ottoman-Habsburg Wars
21.10 Polish-Ottoman Wars
21.11 Russo-Ottoman Wars
22 Modern Wars
23 Current conflicts
24 Further listings



[edit] Campaigns of Muhammad
[hide]Campaigns of Muhammad
Badr – Banu Qaynuqa – Uhud – Banu Nadir – The Trench – Banu Qurayza – Hudaybiyyah – Khaybar – Mu'tah – Mecca – Hunayn – Autas – Ta'if – Tabouk



[edit] Battles of the Rashidun Caliphate

[edit] Ridda wars
Battle of Yamama 632(Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Zafar 632(Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Buzakha 632(Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Ghamra 632(Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Naqra 632(Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Daumat-ul-jandal 633(Khalid ibn Walid)

continued

[edit] Islamic Conquest of Persia
Battle of Chains April 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of River April 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Walaja May 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Ullais May 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Hira May 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Al-Anbar June-July 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of ein-ul-tamr July 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Muzayyah November 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Saniyy November 633
Battle of Zumail November 633 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of Firaz January 634 (Khalid ibn Walid)
Battle of the Bridge - 634 CE, 12 AH
Battle of al-Qādisiyyah - 636 CE, 14 AH
Battle of Nihawānd - 642 CE, 21 AH

CONTINUED AT LINK.....AT LEAST 20 MORE PAGES OF WARS AND BATTLES OF ISLAM/MUSLIMS

This page was last modified 05:35, 22 August 2007. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. (See Copyrights for details.)
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Privacy policy About Wikipedia Disclaimers

[typomaniac]

As conservatism is founded on reality, then you are correct.

Cindy Sheehan's toilet is not founded on reality? :slap:

[glockmail]

Cindy Sheehan's toilet is not founded on reality? :slap:
Her life is a toilet; no.

[Hagbard Celine]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/22/amanpour.answers/index.html