That's Right... BOOZE Wasn't Enough to INEBRIATE America...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

We need RETAIL DOPE for sale too... IDK... far as I'm concerned the jury is still kinda out on this. Is it really a GOOD thing for America, or is just another way the government sees as MAKING MONEY ON SALES TAXES and the repercussions be damned? Granted... if I had to choose either make booze or pot legal but not both, I'd probably say pot. But isn't modern day cultivated pot getting so strong that just one hit can scramble your brains?

http://www.newsweek.com/marijuana-dangerously-potent-pot-making-people-lose-minds-memories-688807

Hippy dream now a billion-dollar industry with California set to legalise cannabis

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/30/california-legalise-cannabis-hippy-dream-billion-dollar-industry

[GravyBoat]

That's awesome, smoking weed is awesome. I ain't smoked weed in years but it's awesome. Now we just need to get rid of the tax on it.

Illinois has medical weed, but no way am I going to pay $50 a year to the most corrupt state in the union. Then you have to get fingerprinted, so I'd have to drive 100 miles to the nearest place for that and pay $75 bucks. Then see a doctor and fill out a lot of paperwork. Then the nearest dispensary is like 100 miles away.

Illinois has a program for veterans in this medical weed thing, I send them a release and they get full access to my VA medical records. Oh, hell no.

Five or six years ago, I looked into financing the growing of weed for Illinois medical weed, they wanted like a million dollar cash bond. Oh, hell no. They'd find some way to get that, drum up some charge and take it.

What the country needs is recreational pot and industrial hemp, just like it was back in 1776.

:salute:

[GravyBoat]

They have a pot called Rick Simpson Oil that's used for treating seizures and cancers, it has no psychoactive properties. But then they have some stuff that's really strong, one little hit and you're in outer spaqce. A buddy of mine dated this chick whose son grows it on the West Coast. My buddy got all this great weed, didn't even tell me about it, I'd have gone and visited him, but they broke up.

I keep saying I'm going to Colorado and smoke weed for a month, but I never seem to get around to it.

[darin]

Let each be accountable for their choices. Legallize pretty much all of it.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

That's awesome, smoking weed is awesome. I ain't smoked weed in years but it's awesome. Now we just need to get rid of the tax on it.

Illinois has medical weed, but no way am I going to pay $50 a year to the most corrupt state in the union. Then you have to get fingerprinted, so I'd have to drive 100 miles to the nearest place for that and pay $75 bucks. Then see a doctor and fill out a lot of paperwork. Then the nearest dispensary is like 100 miles away.

Illinois has a program for veterans in this medical weed thing, I send them a release and they get full access to my VA medical records. Oh, hell no.

Five or six years ago, I looked into financing the growing of weed for Illinois medical weed, they wanted like a million dollar cash bond. Oh, hell no. They'd find some way to get that, drum up some charge and take it.

What the country needs is recreational pot and industrial hemp, just like it was back in 1776.

:salute:
I haven't smoked any dope for ages. I used to love it, even when I was in the military, but the weed we used to get was pretty dang weak. I could guys could split a bowl, 2 or 3 hits apiece and be good, get a mellow buzz, but this stuff nowadays, there's some stuff that just half a hit and you're a drooling basket case, and in some cases are actually over dosing.

I can go to the bar and throw back a couple shots and a few beers and walk out of there virtually sober as a judge. Can't do that with pot. So if they're going to let this super weed be available any and everywhere, then I think grain alcohol, like moon shine should be just as legal and available, and you watch, that's what will be next. The moon shiners will say, "well if you're going to let every mom and pop grow weed and sell it, then we want to be able to sell our shine."

IDK... I just see our nation being twice as fucked up as it is now. It's just simple logic... twice as many ways to toast your head, then twice as many people toasted twice as often... just what we need.

I think what truly driving this is the government slathering over all that tax money. They could give a crap less about what effect it has on society. When it comes to our government, GREED rules the day.

[Gunny]

We need RETAIL DOPE for sale too... IDK... far as I'm concerned the jury is still kinda out on this. Is it really a GOOD thing for America, or is just another way the government sees as MAKING MONEY ON SALES TAXES and the repercussions be damned? Granted... if I had to choose either make booze or pot legal but not both, I'd probably say pot. But isn't modern day cultivated pot getting so strong that just one hit can scramble your brains?

http://www.newsweek.com/marijuana-dangerously-potent-pot-making-people-lose-minds-memories-688807

Hippy dream now a billion-dollar industry with California set to legalise cannabis

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/30/california-legalise-cannabis-hippy-dream-billion-dollar-industryI don't care if it's made legal. I never saw the difference in impairment between the two, regardless the pothead argument. You smoke weed, you're impaired.

As my mother pointed out to me however, WAY back in the 70s, it's illegal. Regardless states doing whatever the f- they want, it is is STILL against Federal law. A LOT of people died to resolve that issue. If this is how it's going to be, I want mine to secede so we can quit carrying states like CA and it's illegal pot industry and sanctuary cities.

They can have their pot and we can keep our flags.

[Gunny]

So, where it's legal, does that mean you can smoke it in bars?

[Elessar]

Let each be accountable for their choices. Legallize pretty much all of it.

I used to be dead set against weed. I cannot tolerate it - too many concussions.

But now I say legalize it and control it like legal booze, wine, and beer.
Keep it away from schools!

The hard drugs? Away with allowances for them!

[Black Diamond]

So, where it's legal, does that mean you can smoke it in bars?
LOL. That would be hilarious. Marijuana yes but no marlboros.

[aboutime]

That's awesome, smoking weed is awesome. I ain't smoked weed in years but it's awesome. Now we just need to get rid of the tax on it.

Illinois has medical weed, but no way am I going to pay $50 a year to the most corrupt state in the union. Then you have to get fingerprinted, so I'd have to drive 100 miles to the nearest place for that and pay $75 bucks. Then see a doctor and fill out a lot of paperwork. Then the nearest dispensary is like 100 miles away.

Illinois has a program for veterans in this medical weed thing, I send them a release and they get full access to my VA medical records. Oh, hell no.

Five or six years ago, I looked into financing the growing of weed for Illinois medical weed, they wanted like a million dollar cash bond. Oh, hell no. They'd find some way to get that, drum up some charge and take it.

What the country needs is recreational pot and industrial hemp, just like it was back in 1776.

:salute:



Yeah. Like back in 1776, when all of the Wagons, and Buggies being pulled by horses did 65 MPH on the Interstates, with all of the DUI Horsepowered drunks who closed the bars at LAST CALL. Lots of Liberal Logic there???

[Elessar]

I don't care if it's made legal. I never saw the difference in impairment between the two, regardless the pothead argument. You smoke weed, you're impaired.

As my mother pointed out to me however, WAY back in the 70s, it's illegal. Regardless states doing whatever the f- they want, it is is STILL against Federal law. A LOT of people died to resolve that issue. If this is how it's going to be, I want mine to secede so we can quit carrying states like CA and it's illegal pot industry and sanctuary cities.

They can have their pot and we can keep our flags.

As long as the government laws say weed is illegal, Coastie boarding teams will still conficate even personal use amounts of weed,
test the boat operator for impairment, and hand the weed over to local authority. A US Magistrate will not prosecute for personal use amounts.

But bulk quantites are a different story. That is considering trafficing for sale and will be prosecuted.

There is NO mercy for hard drugs. That goes up to a Federal Magistrate no matter the amount.

[Gunny]

As long as the government laws say weed is illegal, Coastie boarding teams will still conficate even personal use amounts of weed,
test the boat operator for impairment, and hand the weed over to local authority. A US Magistrate will not prosecute for personal use amounts.

But bulk quantites are a different story. That is considering trafficing for sale and will be prosecuted.

There is NO mercy for hard drugs. That goes up to a Federal Magistrate no matter the amount.Right, but you're talking more along the lines of smuggling. If you get caught, you're busted.

These people aren't smuggling it. They're growing it. Each of those "legal" head shops has enough weed for the Feds to move on and they don't. They don't have to cross the US border with it.

I'm more thinking what sort of example are States setting? Why should I give a crap about THEIR stupid rules if they presume to pick and choose which Federal laws they're going to follow?

[Elessar]

Right, but you're talking more along the lines of smuggling. If you get caught, you're busted.

I'm more thinking what sort of example are States setting? Why should I give a crap about THEIR stupid rules if they presume to pick and choose which Federal laws they're going to follow?

THAT is the hugest problem!

State Laws do not over ride Federal Law, and that where it has become lax since Bill Clinton was in
the top chair.

[GravyBoat]

So, where it's legal, does that mean you can smoke it in bars?

I think it's along the lines of no tobacco smoke, no weed smoke, although Denver allows it.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-denver-pot-20161115-story.html

[Taco Junkie]

A doped up society is easier to control. Look at mental institutions - they keep the patients doped up and they're easier to manipulate. The government can continue to grow and take over more control of our lives if we no longer care just so long as we get our daily fix of pot, EBT health food (Doritos, Kools, malt liquor), and Tass (aka the main stream media) telling you what's good for you and the masses of asses all eating it up as gospel.

[Gunny]

A doped up society is easier to control. Look at mental institutions - they keep the patients doped up and they're easier to manipulate. The government can continue to grow and take over more control of our lives if we no longer care just so long as we get our daily fix of pot, EBT health food (Doritos, Kools, malt liquor), and Tass (aka the main stream media) telling you what's good for you and the masses of asses all eating it up as gospel.Maybe that's what's wrong with me. I'm not doped up. I can't smoke weed because it's a weed. Damn the luck, I'm allergic to it now or I'd be stoned 24-7. :laugh:

Of course that would just make all these goofball Dems more of a comedy act to me than they already are.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Maybe that's what's wrong with me. I'm not doped up. I can't smoke weed because it's a weed. Damn the luck, I'm allergic to it now or I'd be stoned 24-7. :laugh:

Of course that would just make all these goofball Dems more of a comedy act to me than they already are.
I've smoked my share of pot. Course like I say the shit we used to get isn't a tiny fraction as strong as the weed they're engineering today. I used to love to get a six pack, pack a bowl, jump in my 1970 AMX, hit the bowl, pop a cold one, slam on the tunes and CRUISE. That was HEAVEN to me. But, I haven't smoked any dope for ages, like decades, 30 years or so probably. The "high" changed. It started making me feel a little queasy and then I'd feel paranoid and get quiet. It just surely wasn't any FUN anymore, so I quit. I guess it effects people differently. Some like it, some don't, some can handle it, some can't. I guess the same can be said about drinking. I can pound beer like there's no tomorrow and you'd swear I was sober, and even throw back a few shots, or more, of whiskey with it. So IDK... I still say it just makes it easier for a person to get baked, and that that will spill over to more fucked up people driving and at work and you name it. There's no way it won't.

[pete311]

As long as alcohol and tobacco is legal I don't see an argument for keeping weed illegal.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

As long as alcohol and tobacco is legal I don't see an argument for keeping weed illegal.
Well if you're going to use that logic, then why don't we legalize heroin, or LSD, or cocaine?

[pete311]

Well if you're going to use that logic, then why don't we legalize heroin, or LSD, or cocaine?

I believe those should be at least decriminalized. Alcohol and tobacco kill more than all other drugs combined by far and yet stay legal.

[jimnyc]

I believe those should be at least decriminalized. Alcohol and tobacco kill more than all other drugs combined by far and yet stay legal.

Heroin and cocaine. Just decriminalizing alone... I believe it would being an onslaught of overdoses and deaths as a result. I think any talk of legalizing such hard drugs is ridiculous.

Heroin WILL ruin lives and WILL destroy families as a result. There IS NO such thing as using it leisurely and it not turning into a problem.

I understand the arguments and freedom and all that - but I guarantee it will lead to NO GOOD possibly in this world and WILL lead to devastation for anyone involved. There are some things that you just don't legalize.

[pete311]

Heroin and cocaine. Just decriminalizing alone... I believe it would being an onslaught of overdoses and deaths as a result. I think any talk of legalizing such hard drugs is ridiculous.

Heroin WILL ruin lives and WILL destroy families as a result. There IS NO such thing as using it leisurely and it not turning into a problem.

I understand the arguments and freedom and all that - but I guarantee it will lead to NO GOOD possibly in this world and WILL lead to devastation for anyone involved. There are some things that you just don't legalize.

How do you defend the millions of deaths from alcohol and tobacco?

I also think you are wrong on heroin and cocaine. Stable people don't use them. People with existing issues do. Give those people resources and channels to fix their issues without resorting to drugs and things will improve. The vast majority of people won't think "oh heroin is now decriminalized, maybe I'll now inject the poison into my veins for fun."

[jimnyc]

How do you defend the millions of deaths from alcohol and tobacco?

I also think you are wrong on heroin and cocaine. Stable people don't use them. People with existing issues do. Give those people resources and channels to fix their issues without resorting to drugs and things will improve. The vast majority of people won't think "oh heroin is now decriminalized, maybe I'll now inject the poison into my veins for fun."

I DIDN'T and WON'T ever defend any deaths from any drug.

Alcohol and tobacco can both kill you if you over do it and ignore any warnings. But generally, both would take a very long time, and both are also relatively easy in comparison to stop doing.

Heroin is a different animal. It can kill you the first time you use it, maybe the 8th time, maybe the 100th. But you WILL NOT be using it for life like a regular cigarette smoker getting away with for 40-50 years. Same goes for alcohol. (yes, I'm aware that there are some different cases, but speaking about the average).

I didn't say necessarily that "stable" people would or wouldn't use. But for starters, I was speaking about current users, where I think things would skyrocket. Then yeah, folks that are unstable, they would be next in line. Folks that are already druggies on cocaine, LSD or other hard chemical drugs, may now take a gamble.

Look at the opiod epidemic around the country. That's basically heroin. ALL of these folks would now be able to get their fixes at like a 1/10th of the price by switching over. There's already an issue with that. Folks doctors cut them off or similar reasons, they are hooked and sick if they don't get their pills, so they get heroin to avoid the sickness. Legalization would make that worse.

I just can't see any reasons why legalization for this particular drug benefits anyone.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I believe those should be at least decriminalized. Alcohol and tobacco kill more than all other drugs combined by far and yet stay legal.
Link?

[pete311]

Link?
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death

[High_Plains_Drifter]

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/causes_of_death
So alcohol induced deaths is actually quite low, whereas death attributed to tobacco is really quite high.

So how can you argue legalizing weed is a good thing when the TAR in weed is so much worse than a filtered cigarette? Anybody I ever knew that smoked a lot of weed had a hacking, gurgling cough from all the tar in pot. There's no filters on a joint or a bowl.

[pete311]

So alcohol induced deaths is actually quite low, whereas death attributed to tobacco is really quite high.

So how can you argue legalizing weed is a good thing when the TAR in weed is so much worse than a filtered cigarette? Anybody I ever knew that smoked a lot of weed had a hacking, gurgling cough from all the tar in pot. There's no filters on a joint or a bowl.

I'm not arguing it's a good thing. I'm not fond of the stuff myself. I'm saying how can you have one legal and not the other. It's pretty clear it comes down to lobbyists.

[Black Diamond]

So alcohol induced deaths is actually quite low, whereas death attributed to tobacco is really quite high.

So how can you argue legalizing weed is a good thing when the TAR in weed is so much worse than a filtered cigarette? Anybody I ever knew that smoked a lot of weed had a hacking, gurgling cough from all the tar in pot. There's no filters on a joint or a bowl.
Would it be worse than chesterfields, luckys or my grandmas pall mall reds?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm not arguing it's a good thing. I'm not fond of the stuff myself. I'm saying how can you have one legal and not the other. It's pretty clear it comes down to lobbyists.
I thought jimnyc explained why not rather well. Did you miss his post, or was it too in depth for you to grasp?

[pete311]

I thought @jimnyc (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=1) explained why not rather well. Did you miss his post, or was it too in depth for you to grasp?

If heroin is legalized are you going to run out and inject it into your veins the same day? I think not. So why do you think anyone else will that normally wouldn't.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

If heroin is legalized are you going to run out and inject it into your veins the same day? I think not. So why do you think anyone else will that normally wouldn't.
I'm not EVERYBODY, so your example of trying to use JUST ME to make a point is ridiculous.

Many would.

[Black Diamond]

If heroin is legalized are you going to run out and inject it into your veins the same day? I think not. So why do you think anyone else will that normally wouldn't.
Because heroin companies would start advertising.

[jimnyc]

If heroin is legalized are you going to run out and inject it into your veins the same day? I think not. So why do you think anyone else will that normally wouldn't.

Do you think the fact that it's illegal and carries very heavy penalties - that it prevents some folks who are severely addicted to opioid pills from switching over? Do you think that status prevents those with illnesses that gravitate them towards addictive substances, that perhaps they avoid for that reason alone?

With heroin, the penalty and legal status DOES save lives, guaranteed. How do we know this? Heroin WILL kill you if you use it, whether the first time or your 1000th time. It is NOT a status symbol drug or something folks do now and again, or something you use casually. It's a different drug, can't really be compared to alcohol or tobacco, although I did anyway.

A better comparison, and dead serious, would be "legalizing the drinking of radiation, in extremely small dosages that won't kill you instantly, but will definitely kill you."

If you CAN save lives via making it illegal, you do so, IMO.

I've seen little dirtbags on the corner get addicted to pain killers. Then NFL football players. Lawyers, doctors, or basically anyone in the world who has had surgery for any reason, or has been in extended and severe pain. It's par for the course to be prescribed hydrocodone, percocet or oxycodone. And then you are hooked. And if you can't or don't taper over a long period, you WILL get sick and hate the world. Many simply continue to get prescribed the pills to avoid the withdrawals, plus they feel good. So the cycle keeps going.

And then if cut off, the majority will then try to get pills from a friend, from a doctor, a different doctor or then from a drug dealer. And when they can't get that, then someone will tell them about heroin and sniffing it to be identical to taking their pills. Man, I never touched that stuff and am I ever so grateful. I had enough issues!

But if it can all be avoided, even if to an extent, to help people via the laws. DO SO.

[pete311]

Do you think the fact that it's illegal and carries very heavy penalties - that it prevents some folks who are severely addicted to opioid pills from switching over?

no



Do you think that status prevents those with illnesses that gravitate them towards addictive substances, that perhaps they avoid for that reason alone?


what?



With heroin, the penalty and legal status DOES save lives, guaranteed. How do we know this? Heroin WILL kill you if you use it, whether the first time or your 1000th time. It is NOT a status symbol drug or something folks do now and again, or something you use casually. It's a different drug, can't really be compared to alcohol or tobacco, although I did anyway.


Few healthy put together people put poison into their veins. Tobacco and Alcohol kill. Quickly death or slow death, it's still death.



A better comparison, and dead serious, would be "legalizing the drinking of radiation, in extremely small dosages that won't kill you instantly, but will definitely kill you."


What?



If you CAN save lives via making it illegal, you do so, IMO.


Great, ban tobacco and alcohol. It would save millions of lives.



I've seen little dirtbags on the corner get addicted to pain killers. Then NFL football players. Lawyers, doctors, or basically anyone in the world who has had surgery for any reason, or has been in extended and severe pain. It's par for the course to be prescribed hydrocodone, percocet or oxycodone. And then you are hooked. And if you can't or don't taper over a long period, you WILL get sick and hate the world. Many simply continue to get prescribed the pills to avoid the withdrawals, plus they feel good. So the cycle keeps going.


The pharmaceutical industry has a lot of fault.

[jimnyc]

Great, ban tobacco and alcohol. It would save millions of lives.

Not going to debate you line by line on things you then don't understand what I wrote, but I will address these things. One has nothing to do with the other.

We have legalized driving, and speeds are allowed up to certain points. Then people still die anyway. We should ban driving along with the tobacco and alcohol. See how asinine that sounds?

Alcohol and tobacco can very well kill you over time, no disputing that. But either is "manageable" and can be put behind someone with a little bit of effort, and maybe less.

But heroin, it only takes a short amount of time, and folks get hooked. The managing for far too many is next to impossible, and now it's just a matter of doing to remain "normal" as they would put it. The time from starting, until it can kill someone, is infinitely times quicker than tobacco or alcohol. IMO, everything about it is 100x worse than either tobacco or alcohol.

Might as well legalize methamphetamines as well, and let that quickly take out folks teeth, hair and then their lives. Maybe Ketamine, damn horse drugs, but if we're going to legalize, folks like this one as well. And cocaine, another one that can kill folks on the very first time they try it. And while overall it may not kill people as quickly as heroin, it will destroy you in the long run.

And I don't think comparing to anything legal helps the argument. "This can kill you over a very long time, and it's legal, so therefore anything else that folks like to have fun with, that can kill you, should also be legal".

I dunno. I'm usually all for rights to the people. Let people decide what is best. But I also don't want bloody hands in helping pass around shit like that, even if not physically doing so.


The pharmaceutical industry has a lot of fault.

Absolutely agree 100%

[pete311]

We have legalized driving, and speeds are allowed up to certain points. Then people still die anyway. We should ban driving along with the tobacco and alcohol. See how asinine that sounds?


Cars have a reasonable purpose. Cigs and vodka only kill lung and liver cells.




But heroin, it only takes a short amount of time, and folks get hooked. The managing for far too many is next to impossible, and now it's just a matter of doing to remain "normal" as they would put it. The time from starting, until it can kill someone, is infinitely times quicker than tobacco or alcohol. IMO, everything about it is 100x worse than either tobacco or alcohol.

Dead is dead.



Might as well legalize methamphetamines as well, and let that quickly take out folks teeth, hair and then their lives. Maybe Ketamine, damn horse drugs, but if we're going to legalize, folks like this one as well. And cocaine, another one that can kill folks on the very first time they try it. And while overall it may not kill people as quickly as heroin, it will destroy you in the long run.

Yes or at least decriminalize it. Again, healthy people don't usually take methamphetamines for the hell of it. Focus on getting people to straighten out their lives and they won't need to turn to drugs.

[Gunny]

So alcohol induced deaths is actually quite low, whereas death attributed to tobacco is really quite high.

So how can you argue legalizing weed is a good thing when the TAR in weed is so much worse than a filtered cigarette? Anybody I ever knew that smoked a lot of weed had a hacking, gurgling cough from all the tar in pot. There's no filters on a joint or a bowl.Can't trust the numbers on tobacco anyway. They've been lying about how dangerous it is since the 70s. It's called give a grant to some egghead idiots to prove something, and they will. Plus it's a convenient bad guy. Fat, smelly people aren't offensive. Tobacco is.

I'm by no means stating tobacco cannot be harmful to your health. So can any and every thing else under the Sun when abused. I'm just stating believing the "facts" about tobacco is like believing a Trump popularity poll taken in Harlem and Berkeley.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Can't trust the numbers on tobacco anyway. They've been lying about how dangerous it is since the 70s. It's called give a grant to some egghead idiots to prove something, and they will. Plus it's a convenient bad guy. Fat, smelly people aren't offensive. Tobacco is.

I'm by no means stating tobacco cannot be harmful to your health. So can any and every thing else under the Sun when abused. I'm just stating believing the "facts" about tobacco is like believing a Trump popularity poll taken in Harlem and Berkeley.
"Everything in MODERATION"... good anecdote to abide by when it comes to vices.

[pete311]

"Everything in MODERATION"... good anecdote to abide by when it comes to vices.

Especially heroin.

[Black Diamond]

Especially heroin.
Heron can kill you the first time.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Especially heroin.
I take a form of heroin. I get oxycodone from the VA. Have for probably a dozen years. Opioids... in moderation.

Never once have I entertained the idea of taking something stronger like heroin. You'd have to be stupid. But that is the point isn't it. Stupid people would if it was LEGAL.

[Gunny]

I take a form of heroin. I get oxycodone from the VA. Have for probably a dozen years. Opioids... in moderation.Superman pills!:laugh: Should see me in a weight room on those things. Holy crap! I can lift some damned weight.

Problem is when the pills are gone (I had them from an oral surgeon), all those heavy lifts let you know all about your poor judgement.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Superman pills!:laugh: Should see me in a weight room on those things. Holy crap! I can lift some damned weight.

Problem is when the pills are gone (I had them from an oral surgeon), all those heavy lifts let you know all about your poor judgement.
Oh you fuckin' A... they're like PILL COCAINE.

I don't take them every day, more like every 3 or 4 days when my neck is really hurting, but holy shit and shinola... I can get some shit DONE when I take them, I'm off to the fuckin' races... even though I get the smallest ones made... :dance:

[Gunny]

Oh you fuckin' A... they're like PILL COCAINE.

I don't take them every day, more like every 3 or 4 days when my neck is really hurting, but holy shit and shinola... I can get some shit DONE when I take them, I'm off to the fuckin' races... even though I get the smallest ones made... :dance:Think about this ... WHAT is it exactly that has the law believing that if it's fun or works, it's got to be made illegal? It pisses me off because I rarely take any drugs for any reason, but when I DO actually need them, I can't get them while others walk around with handfuls in their pockets.

I could barely walk with a cane this time last year. What do I get? Tylenol. Because ibuprofen is bad for you (even though it does the same damage as acetomeniphen. But Hell, it wasn't like I was going to go anywhere under the influence. Getting the sidewalk was a major excursion.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Think about this ... WHAT is it exactly that has the law believing that if it's fun or works, it's got to be made illegal? It pisses me off because I rarely take any drugs for any reason, but when I DO actually need them, I can't get them while others walk around with handfuls in their pockets.

I could barely walk with a cane this time last year. What do I get? Tylenol. Because ibuprofen is bad for you (even though it does the same damage as acetomeniphen. But Hell, it wasn't like I was going to go anywhere under the influence. Getting the sidewalk was a major excursion.
Ya well if you're dealing with the VA like am, I had crushed nerves causing atrophy and neuropathy and had to have a discectomy, a nickel sized HOLE drilled in my SPINE so they could go in and grind out the bone spurs pushing on my spinal cord. After that it took me YEARS, DECADES of TRYING to tell these fuckers HEY, I'M IN PAIN... WHAT PART ABOUT THAT DON'T YOU DIP SHITS UNDERSTAND? This TYLENOL and CODEINE ISN'T CUTTING IT. I FINALLY got a doctor in Reno that started me out on Vicodine, then I said that constipated me so he gave me Percocet, which was better but then I found out about the 325mg of acetaminophen in every capsule so asked to be put on JUST oxycodone. My current doctor never blinked an eye, didn't even see him, just phoned in the request and bingo, done. But it took me DECADES to finally get prescribed something that would actually put a DENT in the pain.

[Gunny]

Ya well if you're dealing with the VA like am, I had crushed nerves causing atrophy and neuropathy and had to have a discectomy, a nickel sized HOLE drilled in my SPINE so they could go in and grind out the bone spurs pushing on my spinal cord. After that it took me YEARS, DECADES of TRYING to tell these fuckers HEY, I'M IN PAIN... WHAT PART ABOUT THAT DON'T YOU DIP SHITS UNDERSTAND? This TYLENOL and CODEINE ISN'T CUTTING IT. I FINALLY got a doctor in Reno that started me out on Vicodine, then I said that constipated me so he gave me Percocet, which was better but then I found out about the 325mg of acetaminophen in every capsule so asked to be put on JUST oxycodone. My current doctor never blinked an eye, didn't even see him, just phoned in the request and bingo, done. But it took me DECADES to finally get prescribed something that would actually put a DENT in the pain.To make a short story long since you weren't around at the time, I had contracted pneumonia which turned into an empyema (basically a black hole in my left lung). So while I was on life support being my usual cooperative self I jerked out my own incabation tube and killed my brain. I was clinically dead for a couple of minutes. I guess neither place wanted me because I ended up back here, only QUITE worse for the wear.

To treat the empyema, they basically ran a tube through my back and into my lungs and strapped me in place (especially after my aforementioned trick with the breathing tube :laugh:). I guess the closest I can describe it is like dialysis for a lung. So when I even thought I was out of it and in some rehab place with kindergarten level physical therapists I was jacked up. That tube in my back fucked me up and I was immobilized so long what little muscle I had left couldn't support me. I had lost from 205 to 155 lbs, so basically, I couldn't support my bones. I wasn't letting it bother me much because basically, NOTHING bothered me much. That anesthesia they had me on kept me jacked up well into the Spring of last year.

I kept falling all the time. What I later discovered is the part of my brain I killed controls short term memory and balance. I suck at both. The last time I fell it was against the corner of a brick pillar on my daughter's porch and REALLY jacked up my shoulder. THAT pissed me right the fuck off. I've been a rehab and workout machine since. It helps that I'm OCD because I can REALLY double down and focus.

But everything still hurts. Nerve damage to my arm and lower leg is permanent so I have to baby sit it to run or risk breaking an ankle. I ran 58 minutes on NY's just because I decided I was going to:laugh:

My daughter keeps telling me to go to the doctor but that would be too easy. Not to mention piss me off because I have no patience for them. But it would be nice if just once I could walk in and say "Hey, I need this ..." and get it without being told why after 58 years I have no idea what I'm talking about, and given some shit that doesn't work or turns me into a psycho. Not like I'm trying to save the world. Although, you give me enough Oxy I might be good for it :laugh:

[pete311]

Whatever happened to "let states decide"?

[Black Diamond]

Whatever happened to "let states decide"?
Sounds good. Let states decide whether faggots can marry or whether they accept Obamacare. Then also let them decide re weed. Deal?

[Gunny]

Whatever happened to "let states decide"?Federal law. Agree with it or not, it's there. Seems to be a LOT of states doing as they please lately by the very people that scoffed at Rick Perry for wanting to pull Texas out of the US. A lot of picking and choosing what suits the individual proponents of issues going on.

[Black Diamond]

Federal law. Agree with it or not, it's there. Seems to be a LOT of states doing as they please lately by the very people that scoffed at Rick Perry for wanting to pull Texas out of the US. A lot of picking and choosing what suits the individual proponents of issues going on.
He doesn't like it. Except when he does.

[aboutime]

Whatever happened to "let states decide"?



petey. States have "STATES RIGHTS" as long as they are following the LAWS established by Congress. Breaking Federal Laws are NOT the RIGHTS of any STATE legislature. PERIOD.

The supremacy clause contains what's known as the doctrine of pre-emption, which says that the federal government wins in the case of conflicting legislation. Basically, if a federal and state law contradict, then when you're in the state you can follow the state law, but the feds can decide to stop you.Jan 28, 2014

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=R9FOWoP7MoWWjQOKwLbACQ&q=Do+states+have+to+follow+federal+laws%3F&oq=Do+states+have+to+follow+federal+laws%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30k1.2877.25056.0.25477.75.49.12.12.13. 0.266.6289.0j36j3.40.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..12.63.6429.6..0j46j35i39k1j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i13 1i67k1j0i46k1.143.az_uBrDNqPI

[High_Plains_Drifter]

To make a short story long since you weren't around at the time, I had contracted pneumonia which turned into an empyema (basically a black hole in my left lung). So while I was on life support being my usual cooperative self I jerked out my own incabation tube and killed my brain. I was clinically dead for a couple of minutes. I guess neither place wanted me because I ended up back here, only QUITE worse for the wear.

To treat the empyema, they basically ran a tube through my back and into my lungs and strapped me in place (especially after my aforementioned trick with the breathing tube :laugh:). I guess the closest I can describe it is like dialysis for a lung. So when I even thought I was out of it and in some rehab place with kindergarten level physical therapists I was jacked up. That tube in my back fucked me up and I was immobilized so long what little muscle I had left couldn't support me. I had lost from 205 to 155 lbs, so basically, I couldn't support my bones. I wasn't letting it bother me much because basically, NOTHING bothered me much. That anesthesia they had me on kept me jacked up well into the Spring of last year.

I kept falling all the time. What I later discovered is the part of my brain I killed controls short term memory and balance. I suck at both. The last time I fell it was against the corner of a brick pillar on my daughter's porch and REALLY jacked up my shoulder. THAT pissed me right the fuck off. I've been a rehab and workout machine since. It helps that I'm OCD because I can REALLY double down and focus.

But everything still hurts. Nerve damage to my arm and lower leg is permanent so I have to baby sit it to run or risk breaking an ankle. I ran 58 minutes on NY's just because I decided I was going to:laugh:

My daughter keeps telling me to go to the doctor but that would be too easy. Not to mention piss me off because I have no patience for them. But it would be nice if just once I could walk in and say "Hey, I need this ..." and get it without being told why after 58 years I have no idea what I'm talking about, and given some shit that doesn't work or turns me into a psycho. Not like I'm trying to save the world. Although, you give me enough Oxy I might be good for it :laugh:
Oh you've been through that FUN too aye?

Back around winter of 1989-90, a friend of mine asked if I'd help him dig a grave. Well it wasn't in the usual SANDY graveyard we dug graves in, it was all CLAY, and it was colder'n FUCK outside and the ground was frozen and I was HUNG OVER from partying it up the night before, but this was a friend and he was in dire need of help, or there wouldn't be a grave open and there'd be a dead guy there needing one. So, we dug the grave, with picks and nippin' bars and you name it, it was like breaking through 2 feet of CEMENT, but, we got it done. Thing was though by the time we were done, all that excursion in that sub zero weather, my lungs were on FIRE. I did something to them. Well a couple days later I noticed I couldn't inhale very deep and I wasn't feeling good. You just know, you have that, there's some serious shit wrong feeling, so I called my parents and they drove me down to the hospital a couple towns over to their emergency room. On the way over there I started getting MASSIVE muscle spasms in my lower right back that were so bad I thought I was going to die. I'm sure my parents must have been freaked out. But they listened to my lungs at the hospital and said it seems your right lung is full of fluid. Well, they gave me some muscle relaxers and I was ok for the rest of the night, but I went down to the VA the next morning. A couple chest X-rays later and they say we need to DRAIN YOUR LUNG, it's full of fluid. Well they tried that tube in the back on me too but it didn't work, so they stepped up to a regular lung DRAIN TUBE which is about as big around as your LITTLE FINGER, and they just SHOVE THE MOTHER IN RIGHT BETWEEN YOUR RIBS ON YOUR SIDE. I remember getting injected on my side with epidermal pain killer in several places, and given I don't know how many CC's of MORPHINE, and I couldn't feel them touching my side, but when they started shoving that huge stainless steel tube into my lung, it HURT LIKE A MOTHER FUCKER, I COULD FEEL THAT! Well they kept shoving and I kept screaming, and I kept hearing the doctor say, "FIVE MORE CC'S OF MORPHINE,"... well they finally got it in my lung and I remember hearing a loud GUSHING as the shit came out of my lung, and I passed out. When I woke up, I had a plastic tube hanging out of my right lung. Well, that wasn't bad enough, they weren't happy with that, so they convinced me, and I was STUPID TO SAY YES, they used me as a fucking GUINEA PIG, I KNOW THEY DID, to let them CUT MY LUNG OPEN so they could, as they say, "put a second drain tube deeper in my lung." That was bull shit, anyway, I was all drugged up, I have no wife, no family around to be there, no one to speak for me, I'm whacked on pain killers and such, but, they cut open my right lung, and you should see that horrendous fucking scar... ten days in the hospital, pretty close to died but I pulled through.

The moral of the story, I don't trust that VA hospital any further than I can fuckin' THROW THEM. I hope someday that service connected disabled and retired veterans health care is PRIVATIZED, and we can use ANY HOSPITAL WE WANT. Just DISBAND that fuckin' VA hospital shit. They hire all the newbies and crackpot doctors that can't get a job in a DECENT, NORMAL hospital.