'An Event of Almost Biblical Significance’ [Archive] - Debate Policy

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jimnyc

12-06-2017, 04:52 PM

Trump: ‘I Have Determined That It Is Time to Officially Recognize Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel’

President Donald Trump announced Wednesday in a televised address from the White House that the United States officially recognizes the city of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and will begin moving its embassy there.

“I have determined that it is time to official recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel,” President Trump said. “While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver. Today, I am delivering.”

He later added: “Today, we finally acknowledge the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel’s capital. This is nothing more or less than a recognition of reality. It is also the right thing to do. It’s something that has to be done.”

He also said that the U.S. would finally move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem in accordance with the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995, and would make it a monument to peace.

“I’ve judged this course of action to be in the best interests of the United States of America, and the pursuit of peace between Israel and the Palestinians.”

Speaking in front of several Christmas trees, and a fireplace festooned with holiday bunting, Trump said: “When I came into office, I promise to look at the world’s challenges with open eyes and very fresh thinking. We cannot solve our problems by making the same failed assumptions, and repeating the same failed strategies of the past. Old challenges demand new approaches.”

He noted that past presidents had signed waivers delaying the recognition of Jerusalem and the relocation of the embassy “under the belief that delaying the recognition of Jerusalem would advance the cause of peace.”

While some said they “lacked courage,” he said, they made their decisions based on facts as understood at the time. But after two decades of waivers, it was clear that delaying the recognition of Jerusalem had no benefit for peace, Trump argued.

Instead, Trump said, acknowledging that Israel has the right to determine the location of its own capital was a “necessary condition for achieving peace.”

On a practical level, Trump said, it was apparent to all that every major institution of the Israeli government is located in Jerusalem, and that is where foreign dignitaries met with the Israeli heads of state and government.

He added: “Jerusalem is not just the heart of three great religions, but it is now also the heart of one of the most successful democracies in the world. Over the past seven decades, the Israeli People have built a country where Jews, Muslims, Christians, and people of all faiths are free to live and worship according to their conscience and beliefs.”

Trump said that Jerusalem is today, and must remain, a place “where Jews pray at the Western wall, where Christians walk the Stations of the Cross, and where Muslims worship at Al-Aqsa mosque.”

He was careful to note that the new policy was not intended to prejudice ongoing negotiations between Israelis and the Palestinians. And he argued that his decision on Jerusalem was part of a “new approach” to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, one that would achieve a “great deal” for both sides.

“The United States remains deeply committed to helping facilitate a peace agreement that is acceptable to both sides,” he said. “I intend to do everything in my power to help forge such an agreement.” He added that the U.S. would support a two-state solution if agreed to by both sides.

“Above all, our greatest hope is for peace, the universal yearning in every human soul.”

He also addressed critics of the new policy, calling for calm, moderation, and tolerance.

“There will of course be disagreement and dissent regarding this announcement,” President Trump said. “But we are confident that ultimately, as we work through these disagreements, we will arrive at a peace, and a place, of greater understanding and cooperation,” he said.

“This sacred city should call forth the best in humanity, lifting our sights to what is possible — not pulling us back, and down, to the old fights that have become so totally predictable,” he said. “Peace is never beyond the grasp of those willing to reach it. … Our children should inherit our love, not our conflicts.”

President Trump also placed his announcement in the context of his broader policy in the Middle East, which is focused on working with Arab nations to fight extremism. He reiterated his message from his visit to Saudi Arabia in May: “It is time for the many who desire peace to expel the extremists from their midst. It is time for all civilized nations and people to respond to disagreement with reasoned debate, not violence. And it is time for young and moderate voices all across the Middle East to claim for themselves a bright and beautiful future.”

He added that Vice President Mike Pence would be visiting Israel in the coming days.

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The White House issued the following proclamation:

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP’S PROCLAMATION ON JERUSALEM AS THE CAPITAL OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL
“My announcement today marks the beginning of a new approach to the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.” – President Donald J. Trump

RECOGNIZING JERUSALEM: President Donald J. Trump is following through on his promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel and has instructed the State Department to begin to relocate the U.S. Embassy to Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Today, December 6, 2017, President Trump recognized Jerusalem, the ancient capital of the Jewish people, as the capital of the State of Israel.

In taking this action, President Trump fulfilled a major campaign promise of his and many previous Presidential candidates.
The Trump Administration is fully coordinated in supporting this historic action by the President, and has engaged broadly with both our Congressional and international partners on this issue.

President Trump’s action enjoys broad, bipartisan support in Congress, including as expressed in the Jerusalem Recognition Act of 1995. This Act was reaffirmed by a unanimous vote of the Senate only six months ago.

President Trump has instructed the State Department to develop a plan to relocate the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Departments and Agencies have implemented a robust security plan to ensure the safety of our citizens and assets in the region.

STATUS OF JERUSALEM: President Trump recognizes that specific boundaries of sovereignty in Jerusalem is highly sensitive and subject to final status negotiations.

President Trump recognizes that the status of Jerusalem is a highly-sensitive issue, but he does not think the peace process is aided by ignoring the simple truth that Jerusalem is home to Israel’s legislature, supreme court, President, and Prime Minister.

President Trump recognizes that the specific boundaries of Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem are subject to final status negotiations between the parties.

President Trump reaffirms United States support for the status quo at the Temple Mount, also known as Haram al Sharif.

COMMITTED TO THE PEACE PROCESS: President Trump is committed to achieving a lasting peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians.

President Trump remains committed to achieving a lasting peace agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians, and he is optimistic that peace can be achieved.

Delaying the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel has not helped achieve peace over the past two decades.
President Trump is prepared to support a two-state solution to the dispute between the Israelis and Palestinians, if agreed to by the parties.

https://i.imgur.com/02EqoQn.jpg
US President Donald Trump holds up a signed memorandum after he delivered a statement on Jerusalem from the Diplomatic Reception Room of the White House in Washington, DC on December 6, 2017 as US Vice President Mike Pence looks on. President Donald Trump on Wednesday recognized the disputed city of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital — a historic decision that overturns decades of US policy and risks triggering a fresh spasm of violence in the Middle East.’I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel,’ Trump said from the White House.’It’s the right thing to do.’ / AFP PHOTO / SAUL LOEB (Photo credit should read SAUL LOEB/AFP/Getty Images)

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/12/06/jerusalem-israel-capital-embassy-trump-white-house/

Black Diamond

12-06-2017, 04:52 PM

It was an incredible moment.

jimnyc

12-06-2017, 05:09 PM

Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Washington (AFP) - President Donald Trump on Wednesday recognized the disputed city of Jerusalem as Israel's capital -- a historic decision that overturns decades of US policy and risks triggering a fresh spasm of violence in the Middle East.

"I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel," Trump said from the White House.

"It's the right thing to do."

The declaration calls into question seven decades of deliberate diplomatic ambiguity about the final status of a holy city vociferously claimed by both Israelis and Palestinians.

Trump also kicked off the process of moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, making good on a campaign promise dear to evangelical Christian and right wing Jewish voters -- as well as donors.

He said his decision marked the start of a "new approach" to solving the thorny conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

Trump's predecessors -- from Bill Clinton to George Bush -- made similar promises on the campaign trail, but quickly reneged upon taking office, and the burden of war and peace.

This most unlikely of presidents, who came to office with no foreign policy experience and denouncing experts, was determined to show his arrival in Washington spells the end of business as usual.

"Many presidents have said they want to do something and they didn't do it," Trump said in the hours leading up to his historic address.

"Whether it's courage or they changed their mind, I can't tell you," he said. "I think it's long overdue."

- Outrage -

The announcement leaves many angry US allies and leaders across the Middle East trying to find a measured response and hoping that the tinderbox region is not destined for yet another round of bloodletting.

Pope Francis joined a list of leaders warning of an historic misstep that could trigger a surge of violence.

"I cannot silence my deep concern over the situation that has emerged in recent days," the pontiff said Wednesday, one day after speaking by phone with Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas.

The pontiff added that maintaining Jerusalem's status quo was important "in order to avoid adding new elements of tension to an already volatile world that is wracked by so many cruel conflicts."

In a frantic series of calls, the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, the European Union, France, Germany and Turkey also warned Trump against the move.

- Three 'days of rage' -

Moving the US embassy will probably take years to implement, but the repercussions of Trump's decision are likely to be swift.

Hundreds of Palestinians burned US and Israeli flags as well as pictures of Trump in the Gaza Strip, while relatively small clashes erupted near the flashpoint West Bank city of Hebron.

The Palestinian armed Islamist movement Hamas has threatened to launch a new "intifada," or uprising.

Palestinians called for three days of protests -- or "days of rage" -- starting Wednesday.

Anticipating protests, US government officials and their families were ordered to avoid Jerusalem's Old City and the West Bank, though the situation remained largely calm Wednesday.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called for a summit of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), the main pan-Islamic body, in Istanbul on December 13 "to display joint action among Islamic countries" over Jerusalem.

"Such a step will only play into the hands of terror groups," Erdogan said at a joint news conference in Ankara after talks with Jordan's King Abdullah II.

Rest - https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-recognize-jerusalem-israels-capital-020407741.html

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 02:09 PM

RABBI SHMULEY: Thank You, President Trump, for Your Courage on Jerusalem

During the presidential campaign, Donald Trump pledged that he would recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and move the U.S. embassy there from Tel Aviv. He has now made a courageous announcement making good on his campaign promise.

Recognition of reality is long overdue.

The usual suspects — Palestinians and their supporters, certain Arab governments, and some in the State Department — are howling as they do each time the issue is raised. The Palestinians say they will not negotiate, the Arabs say the Muslim world will revolt against us, and the State Department says U.S. interests will be threatened and the peace process will end. The president has ignored these doomsayers.

First, we all want peace. Our Palestinian brothers have refused to negotiate with Israel for eight years. They would not talk after President Barack Obama coerced Prime Minister Netanyahu to freeze settlement construction for 10 months. They have made excuses ever since. During the summer, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas reached a reconciliation agreement with Hamas, joining hands with the organization whose raison d’être is the annihilation of Israel.

Is it possible that some of our Muslim brothers will be angry with the United States if it recognizes the obvious fact that Jerusalem is, and has been since 1948, Israel’s capital? Radical Muslims don’t need any new reasons to attack us. They already view Americans as decadent infidels who deserve death. We cannot allow our foreign policy to be held hostage by people who despise our democratic and religious values. If we based all our policies on whether they might upset Muslim extremists, we would be totally paralyzed.

To those who say moving the embassy will kill the peace process, I have a simple question: What peace process would that be?

I understand that the president is preparing his own initiative and does not want to lose the opportunity to make the “ultimate deal.” Despite this, however, the prospects for reaching a deal will be enhanced by recognizing Jerusalem and moving the embassy. The reason is that one of the prerequisites to a deal is disabusing our Palestinian brothers of the notion that Jerusalem will be divided or that Israel will give up sovereignty over the holiest sites of Judaism. The fact that the Western Wall is in “occupied” East Jerusalem is irrelevant, as the Jewish history of the entire city dates to the time of King David, centuries before Jordan divided the city, expelled the Jews, and became an occupying power.

The majority of the population in Jerusalem has been Jewish since at least 1844. For most of history under the Muslim Empire, Jerusalem was a backwater of no significance and never served as a provincial capital or a Muslim cultural center.

Rest - http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/12/07/rabbi-shmuley-thank-president-trump-courage-jerusalem/

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 03:02 PM

Those on the left, who are quick to condemn Trump's decision, likely will deny or forget that this was also a campaign promise of Obama's - he just failed to follow through, as did GWB.

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CNN Praises Trump for Keeping Promise to Israel – Then Slams Him in Next Sentence

https://i.imgur.com/cSS5XaY.png

Very #FakeNews CNN praised President Trump for keeping his promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem and declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel.

Trump made the historic announcement on Wednesday.

Both Barack Obama and George W. Bush made the same announcement but failed to come through on their promises.

CNN headlined their post: Donald Trump, Keeper of Promises.

Then they went after him in the next sentence.
They just can’t help themselves.

https://i.imgur.com/Hgn1TvL.png

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/12/cnn-praises-trump-keeping-promise-israel-slams-next-sentence/

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 03:28 PM

Not surprising coming from a terrorist organization. Rather than perhaps a normal protest, or fighting via political avenues - these guys want to "abandon peace efforts" and then "launch a new uprising". A shame that they want to go this route. Peace CAN be found if folks work together - but you simply cannot work with a terrorist organization, for these obvious reasons.

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Hamas Calls for Palestinian Uprising in Response to Trump's Jerusalem Plan

The Islamist group Hamas urged Palestinians on Thursday to abandon peace efforts and launch a new uprising against Israel in response to U.S. President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as its capital.

The Israeli military said it was reinforcing troops in the occupied West Bank, deploying several new army battalions and putting other forces on standby, describing the measures as part of its "readiness for possible developments".

Protests so far have been scattered and largely non-violent.

But dozens of Palestinians gathered at two points on the Gaza border fence with Israel and threw rocks at soldiers on the other side. Inside Gaza, thousands of Palestinians rallied, some chanting: "Death to America! Death to the fool Trump!" and burning tyres.

Trump reversed decades of U.S. policy on Wednesday by recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, imperilling Middle East peace efforts and upsetting the Arab world and Western allies alike.

The status of Jerusalem - home to sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions - is one of the biggest obstacles to reaching a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

"We should call for and we should work on launching an intifada (Palestinian uprising) in the face of the Zionist enemy," Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said in a speech in Gaza.

Haniyeh, elected the group's overall leader in May, urged Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs to hold rallies against the U.S decision on Friday, calling it a "day of rage".

Naser Al-Qidwa, an aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and senior official in his Fatah party, urged Palestinians to stage protests but said they should be peaceful.

Rest - https://www.newsmax.com/headline/hamas-palestinian-jerusalem-trump/2017/12/07/id/830393/

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 03:37 PM

Sen. Whitehouse: Trump's Jerusalem Decision 'Dangerous'

President Donald Trump's decision to relocate the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem sends a negative message to the Arab world and could hurt America's relationship with key allies, a Democratic lawmaker said Thursday.

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., appeared on CNN's "New Day" and discussed Trump's move to have the United States officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, not Tel Aviv.

"The public objection is one thing. I think there are factions within the Trump White House that think this all makes good theater for elements of their base," Whitehouse said.

"I think what's really dangerous is what this means for our relationship with Turkey, which we still depend on for a lot of basing for our military efforts in the Middle East, and with the Saudis, who the Trump White House have bent over backwards to accommodate as our new best friend in the region."

Whitehouse added that he thinks religious beliefs played a role in Trump's decision that was announced Wednesday.

"For really strong evangelicals, this is part of the Biblical prescription that Jerusalem shall return and all of that," Whitehouse said. "I think it's a dangerous idea to let those religious beliefs get ahead of our national interests and our diplomatic interests."

Rest - https://www.newsmax.com/politics/sheldon-whitehouse-israel-jerusalem-decision/2017/12/07/id/830491/

Conservatives Laud Trump's Jerusalem Move: 'Long Overdue'

Conservatives praised President Donald Trump's decision Wednesday to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, with House Speaker Paul Ryan saying that "this is a day that is long overdue."

"Jerusalem has been, and always will be, the eternal, undivided capital of the State of Israel," the Wisconsin Republican said in a statement. "The city's status as the religious epicenter of Judaism is an historical fact — not a matter of debate.

"Today's announcement is a recognition of reality that in no way inhibits efforts to reach a lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians," Ryan said.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham, who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said that Trump's action "reflects the reality on the ground for the last 3,000 years.

"Why did the Trump Administration decide to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel?" Graham asked. "Because it always has been and always will be.

"Finally, the decision does not take other options off the table regarding a two-state solution."

In a speech at the White House, President Trump reversed decades of U.S. policy and announced that his administration would also begin efforts to move the United States embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

The transition is expected to take years — and Trump moved despite warnings worldwide that he would further drive a wedge between Israel and the Palestinians with his decision.

"I have determined that it is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel," the president said. "While previous presidents have made this a major campaign promise, they failed to deliver.

"Today, I am delivering."

https://i.imgur.com/U3tS6sc.png

Nikki Haley: Trump Showed 'Courage' on Jerusalem

United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley said Wednesday that President Donald Trump showed "courage" and "a commitment towards a peace process moving forward" with his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

"This is something that unites our country," Haley told Wolf Blitzer on CNN. "The fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, no one doubts that.

"There are parliaments there. There are supreme courts there. There are prime ministers there — and the United States has always put embassies in the capital.

"This is just common sense," Haley said. "This is just reality."

Trump also announced his administration would begin the process of moving the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Trump acted under a 1995 law requiring the United States to move its embassy to Jerusalem.

Haley noted previous presidents declined to move the embassy to keep from fanning tensions in the Middle East.

"Every single leading presidential candidate has always said they're for moving the embassy, but every time that was presented to them, you had a lot of naysayers saying why it shouldn't happen," she told Blitzer. "They all said that it was going to hurt the peace process.

"In 22 years, we haven't seen a peace process," Haley added. "Maybe if we do something different, we will now start to see something move forward."

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/nikki-haley-jerusalem-embassy-capital/2017/12/06/id/830343/

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The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. It was passed for the purposes of initiating and funding the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, no later than May 31, 1999, and attempted to withhold 50 percent of the funds appropriated to the State Department specifically for "Acquisition and Maintenance of Buildings Abroad" as allocated in fiscal year 1999 until the United States Embassy in Jerusalem had officially opened. The act also called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city and for it to be recognized as the capital of the State of Israel. Israel's declared capital is Jerusalem, but this is not internationally recognized, pending final status talks in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[3] and the House (374–37).[4]

Despite passage, the law remained unimplemented by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama,[5] who viewed it as a Congressional infringement on the executive branch's constitutional authority over foreign policy; they consistently claimed the presidential waiver on national security interests. President Donald Trump signed the waiver in June 2017 before announcing the recognition of Jerusalem in December 2017 and beginning the relocation of the embassy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

Gunny

12-07-2017, 03:40 PM

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 03:46 PM

I hope you DO realize this is one of those DUMB moments for Trump. He's got enough problems, and unlike Un and his all-mouth no-ass threats, those crazy Arabs WILL start a war. If nothing else, THAT ought to be obvious by now.

And while the usual folk will puff up their chests, the fact is we are ALREADY in a war in Afghanistan, deployed in preparation for one in Korea, and spread all over the ME and N Africa. the US military IS a finite entity, y'know.

It also looks lame Trump stirring up shit in someone else's yard THEY well have to clean up.

Whether now, last year or next year, it's an appropriate move, and one that should have been done a long time back. If the Muslims want to once again allow terror to rule over common sense and democracy or building up peace, or working towards a future - of maybe even living different lives, even if they never agree.

But that's not bumb on Trump, nor his fault. This is rightful and right. This won't be a war for us of any sorts. We unfortunately may see terror attempts from Hamas or the like coming from Palestine, while their women and children pass around candy and cheer.

There is NEVER a good time for aggression or whatever, but that's on the animals that can't learn to coexist.

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 03:55 PM

Trump Is Making a Huge Mistake on Jerusalem

President Trump announced on Wednesday that his administration is making a radical break with nearly 70 years of official United States policy and with the international community: He is recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

This decision will be interpreted by Palestinians, Arabs and the rest of the world as a major provocation. It will cause irreparable harm to Mr. Trump’s own plans to make peace in the Middle East, and to any future administration’s efforts, as well. It will also undermine the United States’ own national security. The president should reconsider this decision immediately.

Since Israel was established in 1948, the United Nations and the United States, like most countries, have refused to recognize any country’s sovereignty over Jerusalem, a city holy to Muslims, Jews and Christians.

For this reason, the United States has always maintained its embassy to Israel in Tel Aviv. Since Israel militarily occupied East Jerusalem in the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the United States and the international community have rejected as illegal Israel’s attempts to cement its control over the city by expanding its boundaries, annexing it and constructing a ring of settlements on occupied Palestinian land around its outskirts to sever it from the rest of the West Bank.

With his announcement on Wednesday, Mr. Trump has legitimized Israel’s illegal actions and sent the message that the United States no longer has any regard for international conventions or norms, and that might and power prevail over justice and the law.

Rest - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/opinion/trump-jerusalem-capital-palestinian.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollecti on%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfr

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 04:02 PM

Promise Keeper

Column: Why President Trump is right to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Not only is President Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and begin the process of moving the U.S. embassy there one of the boldest moves of his presidency. It is one of the boldest moves any U.S. president has made since the beginning of the Oslo "peace process" in 1993. That process collapsed at Camp David in 2000 when Yasir Arafat rejected President Clinton's offer of a Palestinian state. And the process has been moribund ever since, despite multiple attempts to restart it.

That is why the warnings from Trump critics that his decision may wreck the peace process ring hollow. There is no peace process to wreck. The conflict is frozen. And the largest barriers to the resumption of negotiations are found not in U.S. or Israeli policy but in Palestinian autocracy, corruption, and incitement. Have the former Obama administration officials decrying Trump's announcement read a newspaper lately? From listening to them, you'd think it would be all roses and ponies in the Middle East but for Trump. In fact, the region is engulfed in war, terrorism, poverty, and despotism; Israel faces threats in the north and south; its sworn enemy, Iran, is growing in influence and reach; and the delegitimization of the Jewish State proceeds apace in international organizations and on college campuses. I forget how the Obama administration advanced the cause of peace by pressuring Israel while rewarding the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Maybe someone will remind me.

One of the reasons the Middle East persists in its decrepit condition is that it has been, for decades, a playground of magical thinking. Whether it is believing that poverty is the cause of terrorism or that the Ayatollah Khamenei is a good-faith partner, whether it is imagining that Assad will go just because we tell him to or that ISIS is akin to a terrorist "JV team," liberal internationalists have all too eagerly accepted an alternative picture of the Middle East that is much more flattering than the actuality. A similar form of doublethink is present in our discussions over Jerusalem. Every Israeli knows Jerusalem was, is, and will remain his capital. Every recent president has agreed with him. And the U.S. consensus has been bipartisan. The last four Democratic platforms have said the obvious: that Jerusalem is Israel's capital. The Senate voted 90-0 only six months ago urging the embassy be moved to the ancient city. Were we to take seriously neither these platforms nor that vote? Was it all virtue-signaling, a bunch of empty gestures in the kabuki theater of U.S. diplomacy?

It is a sign of the disingenuousness of American foreign policy that it required someone from outside this system to behave as if words have meaning. President Trump has no background in or admiration for the routines, manners, and norms of the U.S. foreign service, especially that part of it which specializes in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This has enabled him to state unequivocally the fact others would prefer to avoid: Jerusalem is Israel's capital, full stop. His transactional nature also brought him to this fateful recognition. In March 2016, at the AIPAC policy conference, he pledged that "We will move the American embassy to the eternal capital of the Jewish people, Jerusalem." His remarks today make clear his intention to fulfill that promise and to cement his support within the pro-Israel community.

I wonder about the journalists and flacks and politicians criticizing this literal reading of U.S. law as "disruptive." Have they not paid attention to this man? Donald Trump's purpose in office is to disrupt if not overturn the patterns of governance and ideological consensus that have dominated the U.S. capital for decades. In this sense his Jerusalem policy is his presidency in microcosm. He is acting on a common sense appraisal of the world and satisfying the wishes of his supporters without regard to global or domestic elite opinion. What Trump knows more than the art of the deal is the art of the bluff—and how to call one. By keeping his campaign promise today, he has called the bluff of everyone who thought the United States could have its cake and eat it too on the question of Israel's capital. And by moving our embassy to Jerusalem, the United States will acknowledge Israel's right to determine its own capital city. That is not something to condemn or fear. It is something to be proud of.

http://freebeacon.com/columns/promise-keeper/

Gunny

12-07-2017, 04:02 PM

Whether now, last year or next year, it's an appropriate move, and one that should have been done a long time back. If the Muslims want to once again allow terror to rule over common sense and democracy or building up peace, or working towards a future - of maybe even living different lives, even if they never agree.

But that's not bumb on Trump, nor his fault. This is rightful and right. This won't be a war for us of any sorts. We unfortunately may see terror attempts from Hamas or the like coming from Palestine, while their women and children pass around candy and cheer.

There is NEVER a good time for aggression or whatever, but that's on the animals that can't learn to coexist.I disagree. It is not appropriate. Last year or next year, maybe. Technically, is there a problem with it? No. Israel can call whatever it wants its capitol.

Now let's deal with the reality of the festering shithole the Middle East has been since 1949 because of Israel's existence and Arab intolerance. While I think they're a bunch of shitbags and shouldn't be crying over territory lost 100 years ago in a war they lost, the fact remains that they are. The fact is, the Philistines stole the land to begin with.

It is NOT however appropriate to start shit that has KNOWN consequences based on historical reaction; especially, when the consequences pose no real threat to the US but a CLEAR AND PRESENT threat to the people of Israel. That is endangering the lives of others without the right nor need to do so.

jimnyc

12-07-2017, 04:06 PM

I disagree. It is not appropriate. Last year or next year, maybe. Technically, is there a problem with it? No. Israel can call whatever it wants its capitol.

Now let's deal with the reality of the festering shithole the Middle East has been since 1949 because of Israel's existence and Arab intolerance. While I think they're a bunch of shitbags and shouldn't be crying over territory lost 100 years ago in a war they lost, the fact remains that they are. The fact is, the Philistines stole the land to begin with.

It is NOT however appropriate to start shit that has KNOWN consequences based on historical reaction; especially, when the consequences pose no real threat to the US but a CLEAR AND PRESENT threat to the people of Israel. That is endangering the lives of others without the right nor need to do so.

They are MORE than free to say NO, but they want this as well. Do you hear those in charge over there complaining about this? We are not pushing this upon them and then potentially be responsible for any violent type of outcome. Even those in the longest stages of planning here in the USA had planned for this. The same applies on the Israeli side.

I think we BOTH agree on the fact that it may cause issues. But I think those issues are going to happen whether now, the biblical era or waiting another 50 years. So that's why I think it just took the balls of making the decision, and now Israel must have a plan to deal with it.

Kathianne

12-07-2017, 04:07 PM

He already signed a waiver to keep embassy where it is for 6 months. We'll wait and see what happens after, for the time being at least, looks like a change.

Gunny

12-07-2017, 10:21 PM

They are MORE than free to say NO, but they want this as well. Do you hear those in charge over there complaining about this? We are not pushing this upon them and then potentially be responsible for any violent type of outcome. Even those in the longest stages of planning here in the USA had planned for this. The same applies on the Israeli side.

I think we BOTH agree on the fact that it may cause issues. But I think those issues are going to happen whether now, the biblical era or waiting another 50 years. So that's why I think it just took the balls of making the decision, and now Israel must have a plan to deal with it.You're being obtuse. I didn't say a thing about who has the right to do what. It's not about "it's about time somebody told these f*ckers where to go -- who cares what they think?"

Trump is flirting with another international crisis. People are going to get tired of the shit. Those that aren't already. I think he should devote more time to covering his own ass and figuring out how he's going to beat the Dems in 2020 than just stirring up shit.

mundame

12-08-2017, 09:59 AM

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 10:53 AM

You're being obtuse. I didn't say a thing about who has the right to do what. It's not about "it's about time somebody told these f*ckers where to go -- who cares what they think?"

Trump is flirting with another international crisis. People are going to get tired of the shit. Those that aren't already. I think he should devote more time to covering his own ass and figuring out how he's going to beat the Dems in 2020 than just stirring up shit.

Was not being obtuse. This was an embassy move, nothing more and nothing less. Folks are making more of this than it needs to be.

I think he's doing his job, and correctly. This was something that the Israeli's wanted, and of course Americans too. I was planned out and Israel was ready for it. I don't think there will ever be a "proper" time to make this move where it won't make folks over there angry.

I think there's a lot to do as well, many different avenues. But we can't just start forgetting agendas and promises so as not to make folks around the world not want to cry.

But on his end, outside of making this decision and then letting those in charge handle from there, he's done his job. And he was doing his job here in the US outside of that, and now will continue to keep getting shit done.

Fucking everything is front page news and attack Trump crazy crap. But yet, with all the craziness behind him, and all of the impeachment crap and everything else - he's actually doing well and getting a lot of positive shit done! So all is quite well, in my opinion. ---- And now he did something that should have been done a few decades back, and everyone else chickened out about since.

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 10:57 AM

I see a lot of people here and elsewhere have had the same thought that I had first of all -- migod, Trump really does keep his campaign promises!

This was a tipping point for people realizing he really does try to keep his promises. I think this is going to affect American foreign relations a lot, and not because of Jerusalem: because people across the globe are realizing he means what he says. So they need to watch out.

I truly do think his successes irritate some people around the nation. They want him to fail SO BADLY, or want SO BADLY to have him removed/impeached somehow. But instead, he keep defying the odds. Many thought his campaign was a joke. Then it was he was running FOR the Dems. Then it was that he wasn't even spending a penny on the trail. He was a liberal insider. Then it was crazy promises, things that no way he could ever keep. It's just been an 'attack Trump' from the day he announced he was running, until his election win, til today as he keeps beating all the odds and is WINNING.

He has kept MANY of his promises!! And he's kept many conservative promises!!

LongTermGuy

12-08-2017, 11:11 AM

I see a lot of people here and elsewhere have had the same thought that I had first of all -- migod, Trump really does keep his campaign promises!

This was a tipping point for people realizing he really does try to keep his promises. I think this is going to affect American foreign relations a lot, and not because of Jerusalem: because people across the globe are realizing he means what he says. So they need to watch out.

Hey mundame ...Like your comment above in General concerning Mr Trump :)

....One question..The part about

~ "They need to watch out"~

IMO ..people across the "globe" are either socialist or basically backwards...very obvious considering the dangerous `fail` they have with muslim immigration and diversity naiveness... along with socialist minded business practices which always has proved to be a failure.

IMO..they do need to listen to Trump and `watch out` for their "own" Ignorance...

So. mundame what you think... agree or disagree....? (all opinions respected)

Thanks!:salute:

pete311

12-08-2017, 11:11 AM

Was not being obtuse. This was an embassy move, nothing more and nothing less. Folks are making more of this than it needs to be.

I'd believe you if you were some expert in the conflict. So you can support the move, but don't make such above comments because all indications are it's walking on a knifes edge. Something we hardly need. Unless he's looking for a new distraction.

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 11:23 AM

I'd believe you if you were some expert in the conflict. So you can support the move, but don't make such above comments because all indications are it's walking on a knifes edge. Something we hardly need. Unless he's looking for a new distraction.

"you'd believe me if... some expert..."

ummm... dude, NONE of us here are experts in any of the subjects and what not that we bring up and want to discuss here.

I believe that the overwhelming majority of foreign decisions as this one, will be ticking clocks to an extent, and can go either way. Of course THIS one is a lot heavier than the others, this one truly carries some weight behind it.

OF COURSE it's walking on a knifes edge. This is one that has been going on over there for a few decades now building up. ANYTHING behind Palestine/Israel is a ticking time bomb and decisions will be tougher than hell.

But the decision was "law" as you saw previously, and SOMEONE had to be the one to make the call. Trump and Netanyahu did just that. And looking for a new distraction? For what, to make the Russia investigation disappear, the one that Dems invented and created? LOL

pete311

12-08-2017, 11:35 AM

"you'd believe me if... some expert..."

ummm... dude, NONE of us here are experts in any of the subjects and what not that we bring up and want to discuss here.

Exactly, this is why we should remain humble to the depth and complexity of many situations and subjects and not make self conclusive statements that others are overreacting.

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 11:41 AM

Exactly, this is why we should remain humble to the depth and complexity of many situations and subjects and not make self conclusive statements that others are overreacting.

That's fair enough.

mundame

12-08-2017, 11:56 AM

Hey mundame ...Like your comment above in General concerning Mr Trump :)

....One question..The part about

~ "They need to watch out"~

IMO ..people across the "globe" are either socialist or basically backwards...very obvious considering the dangerous `fail` they have with muslim immigration and diversity naiveness... along with socialist minded business practices which always has proved to be a failure.

IMO..they do need to listen to Trump and `watch out` for their "own" Ignorance...

So. mundame what you think... agree or disagree....? (all opinions respected)

Thanks!:salute:

Yes, I agree with you generally. Entirely. I realized after I posted the above that my last remark could be taken either way, oops, but I meant that foreign powers may be starting to realize this isn't one of those talk-talk-talk but never do American administrations, and they need to take what he says seriously.

mundame

12-08-2017, 12:01 PM

... all indications are it's walking on a knifes edge. Something we hardly need.

I can't agree with that: seems to me it's the safest bet Trump has made yet.

This is the time to go all-in pro-Israel. Because all over the world, from Europe to Burma to Thailand to Philippines to Nigeria, EVERYONE is sick to death of these awful Muslims, who terrorize and kill and explode and bomb and knife and run trucks into people walking on sidewalks. I think Trump has fabulous timing: this is it, this is the moment to move against terrorist Islam. There's no sympathy for them now, except on the hard left.

And they are not able to get anything going: ISIS is being comprehensively defeated, and all the other Islamic power centers, too. I don't think much will come of this.

Mind you, I could be wrong. I know I shouldn't predict the future. But that's my read on it now.

LongTermGuy

12-08-2017, 12:03 PM

Yes, I agree with you generally. Entirely. I realized after I posted the above that my last remark could be taken either way, oops, but I meant that foreign powers may be starting to realize this isn't one of those talk-talk-talk but never do American administrations, and they need to take what he says seriously.

*Thank you for the reply...all is good was just curious...:)

Have a great Day!:salute:

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 12:37 PM

Merkel Condemns Trump Decision on Jerusalem, Pushes Two-State Solution

President Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's official capital and his announcement that he would move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to that city has sparked outrage not only in the Middle East, but also in Europe.

One European leader who has condemned Trump's announcement is Angela Merkel, the German chancellor. Although you'd expect her to tread extremely carefully when talking about Israel -- considering her country's horrible record regarding the treatment of Jews -- nothing could be further from the truth.

"The federal government doesn't understand this decision because the status of Jerusalem must be negotiated within the framework of the two-state solution," the Bundeskanzlerin said through her spokesman Steffen Seiber. That is why, she added, the German government does not support Trump's decision.

Her foreign secretary, Sigmar Gabriel, agrees with Merkel's position. "I believe that it carries the risk that an already difficult situation in the Middle East and in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians will escalate even further," he added to Merkel's statement. He also complained that Trump's announcement supposedly ignores the Palestinians' interests and marks a 180-degree turn from the previous U.S. policy. "And that worries us," Gabriel said. "We hope that this concern can be taken away, but this turnaround is already a big problem."

“We all know the far-reaching impact this move would have,” Gabriel added. “Germany’s position on this issue remains unchanged: A solution to the Jerusalem problem can only be found through direct negotiations between both parties. Everything which worsens the crisis is counterproductive.”

Rest - https://pjmedia.com/trending/merkel-condemns-trump-decision-jerusalem-pushes-two-state-solution/

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 12:41 PM

Ummmm, weren't we already their enemy? Same as with Hamas? These idiots have been calling for "death to Israel" so many times, that they now want to toss this out there, seemingly to make the decision seem worse? :rolleyes:

---

Muslim Brotherhood Declares U.S. 'An Enemy of the Arab World' After Trump Embassy Announcement

The Muslim Brotherhood has declared war on the United States after President Trump announced earlier today the official recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and his intent to move the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

In the published statement on the Ikhwanonline.info website, the group rabidly defended by the CIA and State Department as moderates, declares, "Jerusalem is Islamic and Arab; for it we'll shed our blood and wage war. This is the way of our Jihad."

Here's a translation of the Muslim Brotherhood's statement:

Muslim Brotherhood: The transfer of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem classifies America as an enemy state and all its interest will be subject to the political position of the interests of the Zionist entity [statement]
In the name of Allah the Merciful

We are for the victory of our messengers, and for those who believe in this life.

Praise be to Allah, and prayers and peace be upon the Messenger of Allah, and those who follow him. The Muslim Brotherhood has followed the U.S. president's statements about his intention to transfer the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of the State of the Zionist entity, a decision that entered into force is a formal attack by the United States of America on the Islamic lands and holy places.

The Muslim Brotherhood recognizes the American president's move to put America and all its interests in all countries of the world under the same political control of the interests of the Zionist entity, and it will become an enemy state of the Arab world and Islamic components international and institutional, political and popular.

The American president has exploited the weakness of the Muslim world at present, and the ability of tyrannical regimes to strike deadly blows to the Arab Spring, and decided to support the Zionist lobby, to support the Zionist project on the Palestinian territories, but he should know that his decision presents his state of classification as a state sponsor of the occupation -- a country hostile to all freedom in various parts of the world.

The Muslim Brotherhood is launching today a solidarity call with all Palestinian factions and Islamic movements to ignite an uprising throughout the Islamic world against the Zionist occupation and the American administration in support of the occupation and against the rights and freedoms of the peoples.

The Muslim Brotherhood stresses that Jerusalem is not [just a] land or symbol. Jerusalem is a confession of faith (`aqīdah) and a religion (dīn).... Jerusalem is an Islamic and Arab land, for which we will shed our blood, freedom and life, and we fight every aggressor and every supporter of aggression. This is the way of our Jihad.

Muslim Brotherhood - General Office

Cairo - Wednesday, 17 Rabi'al-Awwal 1439H - December 6, 2017

Rest - https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/moderate-muslim-brotherhood-declares-us-enemy-arab-world-trump-embassy-announcement/

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 01:00 PM

Yay, the building moved, so let's go break shit and riot, and likely the broken shit is in their own areas. :rolleyes: Why does it feel "similar" to other riots? And not shocking to find out Hamas is involved. Surprised they haven't started lobbying rockets into Israel over a non-violent decision made that they disagree with. And whether disagreed with or not, Trump made a point of showing that he wants to advance the peace process. Hamas the terror organization fires back that Abbas should withdraw from any peacemaking. the USA and Israel may make decisions the muslims don't agree with - but they are always peaceful people - while the muslims generally want to toss peace off the table. :rolleyes:

---

RAGE AROUND THE WORLD Jerusalem riots spread globally as terror group Hamas promises ‘day of rage’ over Trump over embassy move

RIOTS sparked by Donald Trump’s provocative move to recognise the Holy City of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital have spread around the globe.

Furious protesters have joined rallies in countries including Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran, Syria and even America after terror group Hamas called for a “day of rage” in response to the US President’s announcement.

Muslims in Indonesia and Malaysia joined rallies outside the countries’ US embassies with Malaysia’s sports minister Khairy Jamaluddin threatening “the world will rise against the United States”.

Hundreds have also taken part in protests in Iran where state TV aired footage of marchers chanting “Death to America” and “Death to Israel” while holding up Palestinian flags and banners.

Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas, which runs the Gaza Strip, has called for a “day of rage” with its leader Ismail Haniya said a new upraising should be launched.

Hundreds more police officers have been deployed in Jerusalem’s Old City today with further conflicts feared.

Rest - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5094570/jerusalem-riots-spread-to-indonesia-and-malaysia-as-terror-group-hamas-promises-day-of-rage-over-trump-over-embassy-move/

Clashes erupt across West Bank, Gaza over US Jerusalem pivot

JERUSALEM (AP) — Palestinians clashed with Israeli troops across the West Bank and Gaza, and Muslim worshippers from Jordan to Indonesia poured into the streets after Friday prayers to protest President Donald Trump’s recognition of contested Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

At least one Palestinian was killed in skirmishes between protesters and Israeli troops along the Gaza border fence, the Palestinian Health Ministry said. Dozens more were reported wounded in clashes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Protesters burned Israeli and U.S. flags or stomped on Trump posters in displays of anger.

In the West Bank, demonstrators torched heaps of tires, sending columns of thick black smoke rising over the cities of Ramallah and Bethlehem. Palestinian stone-throwers traded volleys in the streets with soldiers firing tear gas and rubber bullets.

The Israeli military reported protests at 30 locations across the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and said Israeli forces arrested six people.

Red Crescent paramedics and Palestinian health officials reported 13 people wounded by live fire and 47 by rubber bullets in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Dozens more suffered from tear gas inhalation, medics said.

Rest - https://apnews.com/98963890bcd2473191bc7a779009893e/Clashes-erupt-across-West-Bank,-Gaza-over-US-Jerusalem-pivot

Hamas calls for Palestinian uprising against Israel

GAZA (Reuters) - The powerful Palestinian Islamist group Hamas called on Thursday for a new uprising against Israel after U.S. President Donald Trump’s recognition of Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.

“We should call for and we should work on launching an intifada in the face of the Zionist enemy,” Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said in a speech in Gaza.

Haniyeh, elected the group’s overall leader in May, urged Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs to hold rallies against the U.S decision on Friday, calling it a “day of rage”.

“Let December 8 be the first day of the intifada against the occupier,” he said.

Israel and the United States consider Hamas, which has fought three wars with Israel since 2007, a terrorist organization. It does not recognize Israel’s right to exist and its suicide bombings helped spearhead the last intifada, from 2000 to 2005.

“We have given instruction to all Hamas members and to all its wings to be fully ready for any new instructions or orders that may be given to confront this strategic danger that threatens Jerusalem and threatens Palestine,” said Haniyeh.

“United Jerusalem is Arab and Muslim, and it is the capital of the state of Palestine, all of Palestine,” he said, referring to territory including Israel as well as the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip and the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

Haniyeh called on Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to withdraw from peacemaking with Israel and on Arabs to boycott the Trump administration.

Rest - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-israel-intifada/hamas-calls-for-palestinian-uprising-against-israel-idUSKBN1E10XF

jimnyc

12-08-2017, 02:58 PM

Ahhhhhhh...... Memories..... Clinton said he would move, GWB said he would move, Obama said he would move - Trump DID move.

Must go to site to watch:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/08/trump-released-a-savage-video-this-morning-featuring-bill-clinton-and-barack-obama-heres-what-it-said/

jimnyc

12-09-2017, 02:18 PM

So again with the terror organization, working with Abbas. WHY would they purposely do so? Well, we know why actually. :rolleyes: There is no need for it to go this far, but they will, and then Trump and/or someone else in the USA, or the USA in general will be blamed for any violence or deaths. :rolleyes:

---

Abbas’ Fatah Teams Up With Hamas for Orchestrated Riots After Trump’s Jerusalem Announcement

(CNSNews.com) – The Hamas terrorist group and Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah organization jointly laid the groundwork Thursday for violent rioting on Friday in response to President Trump’s announcement recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

At a joint press conference in Gaza the two sometimes rival groups called for popular protests and hailed the “masses” who have already taken to the streets to vent their anger.

A senior Hamas official who stepped down as leader last spring, Khaled Meshaal, spoke by phone to Abbas and, according to a Hamas statement, the two stressed the importance of unity, “to fight and work together against this aggressive American decision aimed at Jerusalem the eternal capital of Palestine.”

In a televised speech Meshaal’s successor, Ismail Haniyeh, declared Friday to be the start of a new uprising (intifada) against Israel.

“Let tomorrow a day of rage and the beginning of a broad effort to rise up, called the ‘intifada of Jerusalem’s freedom,’ “ he said.

Hamas in a statement named the mosques in the West Bank where it wants Muslims to hold “anger rallies” after Friday noon prayers – in Jenin, Ramallah and Hebron.

“In the city of Jerusalem, Hamas calls for a mass march from the Al-Aqsa mosque, in rejection of the American decision, and the affirmation of the religious and historical right of our people in Jerusalem and Al-Aqsa.”

In a move evidently designed to boost the size of protests, the Palestinian Authority canceled classes at P.A.-controlled schools in the West Bank. Businesses were also being shuttered after a general strike was announced.

Israeli police have stepped up security measures ahead of the expected Friday protests.

Rest - https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/abbas-fatah-teams-hamas-orchestrated-riots-after-trumps-jerusalem

Gunny

12-09-2017, 02:54 PM

jimnyc

12-09-2017, 03:00 PM

Y'all Trump c heerleaders can too Trump's horn all you want. It was and is a dumbass decision, both needless and pointless. Not in any way worth the potential risk. And just because Trump did it doesn't make it right. Sound like a bunch of lefties on an unconstitutional Obama decision.

Sorry, not a "cheerleader". No need to lead off a response to me with an insult, no need my friend.

And you can say as you will. Do you understand LAW and that this was LAW? Just because prior presidents avoided their duty to this law, and shoved it forward, doesn't mean that it should keep being avoided and pushed forward. Trump took the reigns and held up the law and moved the capital. The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995. https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ45/PLAW-104publ45.pdf

Read it, love it, live it! :)

This should have been done by Clinton, but he wussed out and pushed it to GWB, who shirked it and pushed to Obama and here we have a man that made a promise to make the move on the campaign trail, and held up his promise, and the law.

Gunny

12-09-2017, 03:05 PM

Sorry, not a "cheerleader". No need to lead off a response to me with an insult, no need my friend.

And you can say as you will. Do you understand LAW and that this was LAW? Just because prior presidents avoided their duty to this law, and shoved it forward, doesn't mean that it should keep being avoided and pushed forward. Trump took the reigns and held up the law and moved the capital. The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995. https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ45/PLAW-104publ45.pdf

Read it, love it, live it! :)

This should have been done by Clinton, but he wussed out and pushed it to GWB, who shirked it and pushed to Obama and here we have a man that made a promise to make the move on the campaign trail, and held up his promise, and the law.I stand by my posts on the topic. I'm done with it because no one's allowed to criticize Trump when he makes a dumb decision. My point is made and is valid, and not based on emotion.

Don't you have book to abuse or something? I'm personally trying to decide if I want to claim I have hair like Dolenzal claims to be black ... Look at the pic again, Jimbob Francis Whatever. hose are beautiful, luxurious locks, huh?:laugh:

jimnyc

12-09-2017, 03:10 PM

I stand by my posts on the topic. I'm done with it because no one's allowed to criticize Trump when he makes a dumb decision. My point is made and is valid, and not based on emotion.

Don't you have book to abuse or something? I'm personally trying to decide if I want to claim I have hair like Dolenzal claims to be black ... Look at the pic again, Jimbob Francis Whatever. hose are beautiful, luxurious locks, huh?:laugh:

Criticize until your heart is content, I just don't see a need to :poke: at one another personally. We can attack the subject back and forth without calling one side cheerleaders and Trumpers and what not, and without me calling anything you may not like as well, which I don't believe I do?

You call my side emotion - I like to call it "LAW" and NOW WAY you read it that quickly. So yeah, you DID base yours on emotion and completely ignored the LAW. Whatever.

Gunny

12-09-2017, 03:16 PM

Criticize until your heart is content, I just don't see a need to :poke: at one another personally. We can attack the subject back and forth without calling one side cheerleaders and Trumpers and what not, and without me calling anything you may not like as well, which I don't believe I do?

You call my side emotion - I like to call it "LAW" and NOW WAY you read it that quickly. So yeah, you DID base yours on emotion and completely ignored the LAW. Whatever.Nope. No emotion at all. I don't feel the need to prove how "tough" I am to the world on a daily basis. The same law you quote allows the President to waive it every 6 months. A wise decision would have been to pursue and agreement from the Pali's THEN recognize all that other bullshit that doesn't matter but has the potential to cost needless bloodshed. It proves nothing and means nothing; therefore, is pointless. End of story.

What it means I've already made my decision based on the facts and just because he's Trump and can do it doesn't mean I'm changing my assessment of the situation itself one bit.

jimnyc

12-09-2017, 03:18 PM

Nope. No emotion at all. I don't feel the need to prove how "tough" I am to the world on a daily basis. The same law you quote allows the President to waive it every 6 months. A wise decision would have been to pursue and agreement from the Pali's THEN recognize all that other bullshit that doesn't matter but has the potential to cost needless bloodshed. It proves nothing and means nothing; therefore, is pointless. End of story.

What it means I've already made my decision based on the facts and just because he's Trump and can do it doesn't mean I'm changing my assessment of the situation itself one bit.

Well, he moved it and held up the law anyway, so end of that story.

I guess I'm a weakling, oh well. You gonna break out the story of "what have you done for your country" soon like you've done to others? Won't work with me, so save it.

jimnyc

12-09-2017, 04:37 PM

I was wrong. I was out of line here with my own attacks, and I hate looking back and seeing that kind of stuff by myself. I really don't care about others and what they may do or say themselves, but I do care about my own actions, and what I am responsible for myself.

My bad, Gunny, I should have left it be early on. My bad, and you have my apologies.

But I make no apologies about my attacks on your funny looking cue ball shaped head and resemblance. You can go after the big man above for that one! :thumb:

Black Diamond

12-09-2017, 04:52 PM

I'm glad he recognized it. Makes up for 8 years of Obama going in the wrong direction on the issue. If the ragheads start something, how's about letting Israel finish them off instead of keeping them on a leash as we've done for decades. And No more veiled threats to shoot down Israeli planes or the like from the jackass predecessor.

Black Diamond

12-09-2017, 04:53 PM

Black Diamond

12-09-2017, 04:55 PM

Sorry, not a "cheerleader". No need to lead off a response to me with an insult, no need my friend.

And you can say as you will. Do you understand LAW and that this was LAW? Just because prior presidents avoided their duty to this law, and shoved it forward, doesn't mean that it should keep being avoided and pushed forward. Trump took the reigns and held up the law and moved the capital. The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995. https://www.congress.gov/104/plaws/publ45/PLAW-104publ45.pdf

Read it, love it, live it! :)

This should have been done by Clinton, but he wussed out and pushed it to GWB, who shirked it and pushed to Obama and here we have a man that made a promise to make the move on the campaign trail, and held up his promise, and the law.
Agreed. Trump kept his own campaign promise. And Obama's and Bushs and Clintons

Black Diamond

12-09-2017, 04:57 PM

jimnyc

12-10-2017, 03:12 PM

UN = Useless.

---

Nikki Haley Slams UN ‘Israel-Bashing Sessions’ In Defense Of Trump’s Jerusalem Decision

Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley on Sunday gave a firm defense of President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, lacing her remarks with strong words for the U.N.

In an appearance on “Fox News Sunday,” she said Trump’s decision was “the right thing to do” and promised to defend Israel from what she sees as unfair attacks by U.N. members.

“We’re not going to put up with it anymore,” Haley told host Chris Wallace.

Haley’s remarks echoed her previous criticisms of the U.N.’s stance toward Israel. During a special meeting of the U.N. security council on Friday, Haley ripped the other ambassadors in attendance for what she said was persistent anti-Israel bias.

“Over many years, the United Nations has outrageously been one of the world’s foremost centers of hostility towards Israel,” she said at the meeting. “The U.N. has done much more damage to the prospects for Middle East peace than to advance them.”

Asked by Wallace how those remarks were helpful in mediating the peace process, Haley said she was simply recognizing the “facts.”

“Ever since I got to the United Nations, there have been repeated attempts to hit Israel, for no reason whatsoever,” she said. “It’s Israel-basing sessions, constantly trying to find ways to picket them.”

“I want the Security Council and all of the international community to understand: When you bully Israel, you are not helping the peace process,” she added.

Haley’s defense of U.S. policy toward Israel comes as anger over Trump’s decision continues to reverberate across the Middle East. Thousands of protesters gathered outside the U.S. embassy in Beirut on Sunday, clashing with Lebanese security forces as they chanted anti-U.S. slogans and burned American and Israeli flags.

Rest - http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/10/nikki-haley-slams-un-israel-bashing-sessions-in-defense-of-trumps-jerusalem-decision/

jimnyc

12-10-2017, 04:36 PM

Haley: Jerusalem Announcement Will 'Move the Ball in the Peace Process

President Donald Trump’s declaration that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel will “move the ball” on Mideast peace negotiations, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley said Sunday.

In an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union,” Haley hailed the decision as the right thing to do.

"For those who want to say this is a bad idea, I’ll tell you ask us five and 10 years from now if you still think it’s a bad idea, because I really do think that this is going to move the ball in the peace process," she said.

"And what this does is just say what’s real: Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. What’s wrong with saying it?"

She reiterated that stance in remarks on CBS News’ “Face The Nation,” saying “courage breeds leadership.”

“What we're going to see is, both sides are going to come to the table,” she said. “They’re going to decide what they think Jerusalem should look like…”

Trump “took Jersualem off the table” as a factor in ongoing negotiations between Israeli and Palestinian leaders, she asserted.

“For the last 22 years that was a bargaining chip,” she said on “Face The Nation. “It got us nowhere closer to peace. [Trump] took it off the table… [said to] both sides to come together, ‘you decide how you want to split it up. You decide if you're going to create boundaries or borders’ and let them decide…”

“This will go down in history to show he made the move that got the two parties to come to the table,” she added.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/nikki-haley-jerusalem-advance-peace-decision-of-courage/2017/12/10/id/830911/

jimnyc

12-10-2017, 05:34 PM

Trump's Bold Recognition of Jerusalem a Game-Changer

With his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital on Wednesday, US President Donald Trump gave a Hanukka gift to the Jewish people. But he also gave a Christmas gift to the American people.

Trump’s gift to Israel is not merely that 68 years after Israel declared Jerusalem its capital, the US finally recognized Israel’s capital.

In his declaration, Trump said, “Israel has made its capital in the city of Jerusalem, the capital the Jewish people established in ancient times.”

By stating this simple truth, Trump fully rejected the anti-Israel legacy of his predecessor Barack Obama.

In his speech in Cairo in 2009, Obama intimated that Israel’s legitimacy is rooted in the Holocaust, rather than in the Jewish nation’s millennial attachment to the Land of Israel. Whereas the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations Mandate rooted the Jewish people’s sovereign rights to the Land of Israel in its 3,500-year relationship with it, Obama said that Israel is nothing more than a refugee camp located in an inconvenient area. In so doing, he gave credence to the anti-Israel slander that Israel is a colonialist power.

By asserting the real basis for Israel’s legitimacy, Trump made clear that the Jewish people is indigenous to the Land of Israel. He also made it US policy to view Israel’s right to exist, like its right to its capital city, as unconditional.

Trump’s extraordinary gift to Israel was an act of political and moral courage. It was also a stroke of strategic brilliance.

To understand why it was both courageous and wise, consider the political, institutional and geopolitical contexts in which Trump acted.

Politically, Trump made his declaration in a poisonous political environment at home.

The Democrats responded to Trump’s victory last year over Hillary Clinton by seeking to delegitimize his victory. To this end, they chose to oppose everything that he says and does.

And so, despite their long-held and recently voiced support for US recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, leading Democratic senators including New Jersey’s Cory Booker and California’s Diane Feinstein condemned Trump’s declaration.
The Democrats’ rejection of Trump’s move was an astounding act of hypocrisy. But it was also predictable.

Trump had to know the Democrats would oppose him. And he also had to know that in their opposition, they would empower US allies in Europe and the Arab world to publicly condemn his move in a manner they would be loath to do if the Democrats supported him. And still, despite this sure knowledge, Trump took action.

And it wasn’t only the Democrats, the Europeans and the Arabs Trump willingly opposed. His chief opposition came from within his own government.

Rest - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2017/12/10/trumps_bold_recognition_of_jerusalem_a_game-changer_135740.html

jimnyc

12-11-2017, 03:57 PM

Knowing Trump, he likely sleeps fine at night.

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Trump has to live with the consequences of his Israel decision

(CNN)At ground zero, by Jerusalem's Old City walls, reaction to President Trump's declaration that the United States now recognizes the city as being Israel's capital is both mixed and muted.

A small group of Palestinian women sat chanting outside the ancient Damascus Gate and youths who in other cities might be described as feral baited police, in an almost ritualized ebb and flow of bravado.

There was no violence and Israel Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told me the gathering was "relatively small ... we've dealt with much larger."

He would be there again Friday as Palestinians streamed home following their most important prayers of the week. It was the moment many had feared could turn to ugly violence.

It didn't. The vast majority of people left peacefully. Perhaps a hundred teenagers stopped to chant in anger, later tangling with police as they were moved on. In the same place six months ago, the police coped with far bigger and much more violent crowds.

If Rosenfeld was surprised at the low turnout, he didn't show it. He told me that the police were still evaluating what may come in the days ahead.

I was puzzling over other conversations I'd just been having. Educated, articulate Palestinians describing to me both their frustration with their own leadership and their anger with Trump.

Nearly 25 years after the first Oslo peace accords held out hope of a two-state solution, we have little to show for it, one middle-class 30-something man told me. He said that Palestinians need new leaders and a new approach.

He singled out Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas as being particularly weak.

A 45-year-old woman was angry with Trump. She told me she grew up in the Old City, that he didn't understand the impact of his decision and that he cared only about his popularity back home.

Rest - http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/09/opinions/trump-israel-opinion-robertson/index.html