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red states rule
08-10-2007, 05:54 AM
The further to the left the Dems move, the better it gets for Republicans in 08

Right now, Dems are tossing independents uder the bus so they can embrace thier kook base

Will Democrats Abandon the Middle?

By Kimberley Strassel

"They'll find their way back to the middle. And if they don't, they won't win." So says a blunt Harold Ford Jr., chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council, of his party's current crop of presidential candidates. The question is just how many would-be Democratic presidents recognize the wisdom of his words.

Mr. Ford is in a feisty mood throughout our chat, as well he might be given the shelling his group has recently endured at the keyboards of the far left. Skip back 15 years, and the DLC stood as the proud architect of Bill Clinton's "New Democrat" campaign victory. Liberals derided the outfit's goals of nosing the party back toward the political center, but Mr. Clinton understood the perils of running as Jimmy Carter. He took the DLC's advice, talked up "opportunity, responsibility, community" and won.

Today, the DLC is again battling for the souls of those Democrats who would occupy the White House, urging them toward a centrist agenda that will seek to convince the broad middle that Democrats can be trusted on national security, values and fiscal responsibility. Mr. Ford's colleague, DLC founder Al From, thinks the stakes are giant, and that the public's unease over the war, health care and the economy has created the "first time in modern political history" that his party has the opportunity to "build an enduring majority in the progressive center."

That is, if his party doesn't blow it. And Mr. From's problem is that a whole lot of folks still think him a heretic, and this time they're louder, ruder and more coordinated. The far left has found something to unify it--hatred of George W. Bush. Technology has given it the means to organize; what the right found in talk radio, liberals have found in the "netroots" Internet, from MoveOn.org to Daily Kos. Its activism has of late overshadowed groups like the DLC, which still believe in such creaky notions as ideas. Even Mr. Ford, who took over the DLC chairmanship in January, is willing to admit his outfit has been eclipsed: "The DLC and other moderate groups have struggled a bit to find not only our voice, but a way to be heard."

Making it harder is that this newly energized left is directing inordinate firepower on the DLC itself, in a crazed, purist drive to purge any group that would exert a moderating influence on the Democratic Party. New Republic scribe Noam Scheiber let loose a few weeks back in a New York Times hit piece, calling the DLC "radioactive" and "quaint," gloating that its "fading influence was good news for the entire party," and arguing that it should just get lost. Markos Moulitsas, chief flogger-blogger on the Daily Kos, this week slammed the DLC as a group that wants to "blur distinctions with the GOP," and reveling that Democrats had won in 2006 because liberals like himself had "forced" Americans to pick sides.

The real target audience for these pronouncements is the Democratic presidential field, and the threat is clear: Touch the DLC, and you will be (to use a favorite, medieval Kos word) "punished." At least a few activists danced a victory lap, too, a few weeks back when every last Democratic candidate spurned the DLC's annual convention in Nashville, instead turning up at Mr. Moulitsas's YearlyKos event in Chicago.

Messrs. Ford and From, in their usual optimistic way, insist that backslapping is premature. It's primary season, they note, and that means the candidates are catering to the left. None of the front-runners bothered to show up to the DLC event in 2003, either, though nominee John Kerry was pitching to the group come the summer of 2004. "In the primaries you play on one end of the field, but you have to play on the whole field in the general," says Mr. From.

Yes, though what's also clear is that so far it has been the netroots calling out the plays from the sidelines. Congress alone should be cause for the DLC's concern. Nancy Pelosi shrewdly presented her party as more centrist in last year's election, yet upon winning tossed the gavel to her liberal wing. Egged on by activists, Congressional Democrats have spent eight months fighting for surrender in Iraq, tanking trade pacts with Latin America and South Korea, and maneuvering to institute backdoor socialized health care. This undoubtedly has something to do with Congress's approval rating, which now stands below that of even President Bush.

And the presidential candidates? Mr. From says he's happy that none of the front-runners have so far "gone off the deep end," but this might be considered faint praise. The one grown-up on national security has been Sen. Joe Biden, who barely registers in Democratic polls. Hillary Clinton has come out against even a South Korean trade deal; this from the wife of the DLCer whose own free-trade impulses (at least his first term) delivered Nafta and GATT. Barack Obama produced a little shiver among his party's fiscal disciplinarians when he recently blurted out (at the Kos event, in case you were wondering), that he'd be happy to run up deficits in the name of greater domestic spending.

No doubt the ultimate nominee will backpedal and finesse these points for the broader national audience. Just how much finessing goes on--just how far the candidates come back to Mr. Ford's "middle"--will be the ultimate test of whether groups like the DLC have a role in the future of the Democratic Party. Mr. Ford, for his part, has dark warnings for those activists selling the line that last year's election is proof that their liberal ideas are now "mainstream," or that Democrats' reputation on national security and the economy is so secure that the candidates run no risk going left. "That's called short-term memory," he says, with a few references to Carter, Mondale and other ghosts of failed Democrats past.

As he does his convincing, Mr. Ford is going to be holding up a few key facts, ones that no belligerent blogger has yet been able to refute. The party's most impressive gains last year all came from politicians straight out of the DLC cast. Four governors spoke at the DLC convention this year; all four had beat Republicans. The vast majority of the pick-ups in the House came from DLCers in red states in the South and Midwest. The Senate wouldn't be in Democratic hands were it not for Montana's Jon Tester.

"The reality is, without the DLC, and without candidates who subscribe to our platform, Democrats wouldn't be in the majority today. If we abandon that group, we will lose the majority and we will lose the White House," says Mr. Ford.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/will_democrats_abandon_the_mid.html

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 06:28 AM
The further to the left the Dems move, the better it gets for Republicans in 08

hardly....we tossed out the independants long ago......

red states rule
08-10-2007, 06:37 AM
hardly....we tossed out the independants long ago......

hardly. Dems think the nation is noving to the left - they are very wrong

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 08:07 AM
they probably just got confused, watching the Republicans move to the left.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:09 AM
they probably just got confused, watching the Republicans move to the left.....

Yea, right. Please do not get behind the wheel in your current condition

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 08:13 AM
big government, big spending? isolationist? anti-immigration?

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:16 AM
big government, big spending? isolationist? anti-immigration?

The frist three nails the Dems to the wall

anti-immigration? Because the Republicans want to enforce our laws?

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 08:17 AM
Because the Republicans want to enforce our laws?


that's a front and you know it.....it's nothing more than job protectionism.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:18 AM
that's a front and you know it.....it's nothing more than job protectionism.....

You are a left wing kook. Illegals are breaking our laws by being here in the first place

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 08:23 AM
You are a left wing kook.

obviously, you aren't very perceptive....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:24 AM
obviously, you aren't very perceptive....

With being opposed to enforcing our laws you are either a left wing kook or a RINO

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 08:25 AM
Illegals are breaking our laws by being here in the first place

sure they are.....and lots of other folks are violating our immigration laws.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:25 AM
sure they are.....and lots of other folks are violating our immigration laws.....

and all the laws should be enforced

bluestatesrule
08-10-2007, 09:15 AM
As John Ashcroft stated, the only thing in the middle of the road is a moderate and a dead skunk. As my buddy Red State Rules and Rush Limbaugh have pointed out.....they want no part of moderates!

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 10:31 AM
and all the laws should be enforced

absolutely!....forget about amnesty.....I want every person who hired an illegal in the last twenty years packed up and shipped out of the country.....I want every policeman who didn't arrest an illegal in the last twenty years packed up and shipped out of the country....I want every Congressman who didn't pass legislation solving this problem packed up and shipped out of the country......

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 10:33 AM
now let's get to the crux of the matter, Red....

we enforce the laws, we seal the borders, we forget about amnesty, we deport all the illegals....

now, there is a guy standing south of the fence who wants a job......there is a guy standing north of the fence who wants to hire him......what do we do about it?

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:03 PM
As John Ashcroft stated, the only thing in the middle of the road is a moderate and a dead skunk. As my buddy Red State Rules and Rush Limbaugh have pointed out.....they want no part of moderates!

Also in the middle of the road are yellow lines

Your party has plenty of them - running down their backs

red states rule
08-10-2007, 08:05 PM
now let's get to the crux of the matter, Red....

we enforce the laws, we seal the borders, we forget about amnesty, we deport all the illegals....

now, there is a guy standing south of the fence who wants a job......there is a guy standing north of the fence who wants to hire him......what do we do about it?

have the guy in Mexico apply legally to cross the fence into the US

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 09:23 PM
have the guy in Mexico apply legally to cross the fence into the US


so you will support legislation providing work visas to anyone who can find a job in the US?

red states rule
08-10-2007, 09:26 PM
so you will support legislation providing work visas to anyone who can find a job in the US?

When the governemnt can show they can do the job. They have lost track of tens of thousands of people with expired visas as of today

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 09:31 PM
great, then we agree.....unlimited work visas and an expanded immigration system to keep track of who they are, where they are and what they are doing.....

now, since we agree on providing for unlimited work visas, what do you gain by making the people who already have work here go back to get their visa in Mexico, instead of getting it here?

red states rule
08-10-2007, 09:34 PM
great, then we agree.....unlimited work visas and an expanded immigration system to keep track of who they are, where they are and what they are doing.....

now, since we agree on providing for unlimited work visas, what do you gain by making the people who already have work here go back to get their visa in Mexico, instead of getting it here?

It will be years before the givernment is ready to do the job. They are having issues with their computers, short staffed, overworked, and they can;t even keep up with passport requests for US citizens

Before we move onto the next issue - lets finish the first one

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 09:44 PM
I thought we had disposed of the first one....I had thought that like most of the anti-immigration crowd you were motivated by job protectionism, but you have agreed with me that we should have unlimited work visas......thus satisfying me that you aren't quite as liberal as you appear.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 09:47 PM
I thought we had disposed of the first one....I had thought that like most of the anti-immigration crowd you were motivated by job protectionism, but you have agreed with me that we should have unlimited work visas......thus satisfying me that you aren't quite as liberal as you appear.....

Try being pro law enforcement.

I am not anti immigration - I am anti illegal immigration

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 09:58 PM
Try being pro law enforcement.


??....you're the one soft on enforcement....I haven't seen you agree with me regarding the deportation of all the other people who have violated our immigration laws.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 09:59 PM
??....you're the one soft on enforcement....I haven't seen you agree with me regarding the deportation of all the other people who have violated our immigration laws.....

Before we can get rid of the ones already here, we need to stop more from coming here.

We need to seal the border first, then we take care of the ones that are here

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 10:16 PM
then we take care of the ones that are here

sweet, we are making progress.....once we deport all those farm laborers and landscapers and employers and judges and police officers we can start replaceing them all with people outside our borders who want jobs.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 10:18 PM
sweet, we are making progress.....once we deport all those farm laborers and landscapers and employers and judges and police officers we can start replaceing them all with people outside our borders who want jobs.....

You are doing what libs do - you use part of my statement to try and make people think I agree with you

Tacky, very tacky

PostmodernProphet
08-10-2007, 10:21 PM
actually, I was doing it in hopes it would make you realize you OUGHT to agree with me.....

red states rule
08-10-2007, 10:24 PM
actually, I was doing it in hopes it would make you realize you OUGHT to agree with me.....

Yep, libs feel the same way

I once applied for membership to the local Democrat party where i live

They turned me down

I passed the mental test and was shown the door

PostmodernProphet
08-11-2007, 05:52 AM
your lucky they wouldn't take you.....as gullible as you seem to be, they might have turned you......

in the meantime, I suspect you like the phrase "What part of illegal alien don't you understand?"......my answer is, I don't understand the selectivity in dealing with the illegality of only one group of people that violated our immigration laws....

in my opinion, that selectivity reveals the insincerity of those who claim they are only concerned with supporting the laws of this country.....

it reveals that the issue is really, "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS"..........

red states rule
08-11-2007, 06:17 AM
your lucky they wouldn't take you.....as gullible as you seem to be, they might have turned you......

in the meantime, I suspect you like the phrase "What part of illegal alien don't you understand?"......my answer is, I don't understand the selectivity in dealing with the illegality of only one group of people that violated our immigration laws....

in my opinion, that selectivity reveals the insincerity of those who claim they are only concerned with supporting the laws of this country.....

it reveals that the issue is really, "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS"..........

Spoken like a true blue liberal. You, however, would fit it perfectly with the liberal kooks.

PostmodernProphet
08-11-2007, 06:54 AM
you faux-conservatives are screwing up the Republican Party.....

red states rule
08-11-2007, 09:41 AM
you faux-conservatives are screwing up the Republican Party.....

Yep, you are a liberal - thanks for removing any and all doubt

PostmodernProphet
08-11-2007, 05:13 PM
lol, I knew you didn't have 'doubts', Red....the question is whether you have brains......

red states rule
08-11-2007, 05:14 PM
lol, I knew you didn't have 'doubts', Red....the question is whether you have brains......

Thanks for showing to the masses you are a true blue liberal

PostmodernProphet
08-11-2007, 08:41 PM
hehe.....I'm in a good mood, so I'm not going to shoot you for insulting me.....besides, it's become clear you don't really know what a conservative looks like, so you can be excused for not recognizing one.....

red states rule
08-12-2007, 05:25 AM
hehe.....I'm in a good mood, so I'm not going to shoot you for insulting me.....besides, it's become clear you don't really know what a conservative looks like, so you can be excused for not recognizing one.....

it sure as hell is not you.