Republicans start to smell blood

[red states rule]

In the UK, they see what a weak feild the Dems are putting up

US Republicans start to smell blood
By Toby Harnden
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 09/08/2007

Have your say Read comments


He was once billed as Obambi, the doe-eyed ingénu wandering innocently into the dark forest of an election, woefully unprepared for the dangers that lurked there. But in the old steamboat stop of Sioux City, Iowa, this week, an altogether more ferocious animal stalked its prey.

Barack Obama jabbed the air and waved his hand dismissively as he branded his prey a creature of the establishment who had "been in Washington too long". This crony of "corporate lobbyists" was in denial about America being "less safe" than before 9/11 and had to be brought to book for the "disaster" in Iraq.

To the dismay of some Democrats in the high school gym, however, the Illinois senator's quarry was not George W. Bush, who escaped almost scot free. His stump speech was all about, as Obama himself put it, his "little argument with Hillary Clinton". In trying to stop the Hillzilla juggernaut, Obama is making a powerful case for why she should never be president. Painting the former First Lady as the ultimate Washington insider is a message that resonates in a country in which Congress is every bit as unpopular as Bush.

One of the most puzzling moments of an already extraordinary campaign came last week when Clinton suggested that lobbyists represent "real Americans". For a famously disciplined campaigner, it was a foolish mistake to champion the profession most associated with corruption and a poisoned body politic in Washington.

While Obama is presenting himself as the agent of change, Clinton is banking on being the candidate of experience. "For 15 years, I have stood up against the Right-wing machine, and I've come out stronger," she declared in Chicago on Tuesday night. "So if you want a winner who knows how to take them on, I'm your girl!" Her Achilles' heel, however, is that, at a time when disillusion with Washington and all its works is as pervasive as ever, the kind of experience she cites may not seal the deal with the electorate.

Equally, as Clinton pointed out in a sarcastic attack on Obama in Chicago, you can "think big", but that is unlikely to be enough either. Like a boxer with her opponent trapped in the corner of the ring, she has been pummelling Obama this week for being naïve and inexperienced on foreign policy. And the punches are hitting home.

Slowly but surely, the Clinton machine is stripping away her adversary's lustre. Obama joked in Sioux City that he is accused of being a "hopemonger". But that reputation is receding as Clinton responds to his attacks on her by asking with mock dismay: "Whatever happened to the politics of hope?"

The frustration for the other Democrats is that they are confined to the sidelines. "We can't make John black, we can't make him a woman," bemoaned Elizabeth Edwards, whose husband is running a distant third. It seems all Mr Edwards, a Southern pretty boy who voted for the Iraq invasion and has reinvented himself as an anti-war Left-wing populist, can do is snipe at Clinton. "You will never see a picture of me on the front of Fortune saying I am the candidate that big, corporate America is betting on," he thundered.

In Sioux Falls, Democrats echoed the criticisms of the candidate they did not like as often as they sang the praises of the ones they did. "Hillary's been power-hungry since she was at college," said Martie Ebner, an Obama backer. Darrell Strong, 85, a retired railroad worker, questioned whether Obama could handle the Middle East. "This isn't kindergarten," he pointed out.

All this is giving hope to Republican strategists, whose underlying assumption since their mid-term drubbing has been that they have little chance of winning next November. Recognising that the odds are stacked against them, the Grand Old Party hopefuls are making a decent stab at improving their chances. Rather than attacking each other, the Republicans have been turning their fire against Obama and Clinton. When invited to attack the social stances of Republican front-runner Rudy Giuliani during last weekend's Iowa debate, Mitt Romney declined to shoot for the open goal. "I'd rather let him speak for himself," he said.

Giuliani was similarly magnanimous when pitched a softball about John McCain's campaign finance legislation, which is despised by conservative Republicans. "I happen to be a very big admirer of Senator McCain and I can tell you quite honestly that, if I wasn't running for president, I would be here supporting him," he said.

Instead of aiming at Republicans, Giuliani keeps hammering home his theme that all three leading Democrats are defeatists who have already declared Iraq lost. And there are glimmers of hope in Iraq and a slight up-tick in poll support for the troop "surge" there that could signal an opportunity for the Republicans. An opinion piece in the New York Times last week by Michael O'Hanlon and Ken Pollack - both previously in line to get top foreign policy jobs in a Democratic administration - declared that Iraq was a "war we might just win". It was a message neither Obama nor Clinton wanted to hear.

Democratic voters fear that a stridently anti-war candidate - as Obama is fast becoming - could lose because he is seen as weak on defence, just as McGovern was in 1972 and Dukakis in 1988.

Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, could be a safe choice in the mould of Mondale in 1984 or Gore in 2000, whose problems over likeability and ennui spelt defeat against folksy, optimistic Republican opponents.

Being the change candidate in a post-9/11 world is problematic in a country that remains intensely fearful of the terror Islamism can wreak at home and abroad.

The change and experience candidates, moreover, are already inflicting serious wounds on each other with five months to go before the first primary ballot is cast. With the general election still 15 months away, the Republican creatures in the forest can afford to wait, sniffing the air as the scent of blood approaches.

Toby Harnden is US Editor, Alice Thomson is away
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=WP0O0VT2J0DDLQFIQMGCFFWAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/08/09/do0902.xml

[PostmodernProphet]

For 15 years, I have stood up against the Right-wing machine, and I've come out stronger,"

and there you have the crux of the problem......candidates on both sides weigh themselves and sell themselves on how well they can fight the other political party.....nobody gives a rat's ass anymore about leading the country or solving the country's problems......

[diuretic]

and there you have the crux of the problem......candidates on both sides weigh themselves and sell themselves on how well they can fight the other political party.....nobody gives a rat's ass anymore about leading the country or solving the country's problems......

You're right and now you have to ask why you're right.

[red states rule]

and there you have the crux of the problem......candidates on both sides weigh themselves and sell themselves on how well they can fight the other political party.....nobody gives a rat's ass anymore about leading the country or solving the country's problems......

The countries problems will not be solved by the Dems

They will add to them

[diuretic]

The countries problems will not be solved by the Dems

They will add to them

How?

[red states rule]

How?

Appeasement and surrender to terrorist

higher taxes

more pork and more spending

government run health care

liberal Judges making law from the bench

those are a few of the way they will add to the problems

[diuretic]

Okay, thanks for that.

[red states rule]

Okay, thanks for that.

That is what libs want - and what the majority of voters don't want

[diuretic]

That is what libs want - and what the majority of voters don't want

Then the majority of voters will reject the agenda.

[red states rule]

Then the majority of voters will reject the agenda.

Looking at the poll numbers for the Dems they already are

[diuretic]

Looking at the poll numbers for the Dems they already are

Tweedlee is Tweedledumbing and people complain?

[red states rule]

Tweedlee is Tweedledumbing and people complain?

What a great repsonse to the facts. Libs are tanking and you come back with a personal attack

Typical when a lib is on the short end of the debate

[diuretic]

What a great repsonse to the facts. Libs are tanking and you come back with a personal attack

Typical when a lib is on the short end of the debate

Personal attack? Wrong person. I wasn't attacking you or anyone here - I really do try to avoid that. I was remarking about the similarity between the GOP and the Dems that irritates Americans.

If I ever get personal with you RSR then I expect to get the boot from here. I enjoy our jousts.

[red states rule]

Personal attack? Wrong person. I wasn't attacking you or anyone here - I really do try to avoid that. I was remarking about the similarity between the GOP and the Dems that irritates Americans.

If I ever get personal with you RSR then I expect to get the boot from here. I enjoy our jousts.

What similarities?

The differences between the liberals the Dems are running and the conservatives on the Republican side are clear to see

[diuretic]

What similarities?

The differences between the liberals the Dems are running and the conservatives on the Republican side are clear to see

I'm glad to hear it because I read and hear so much about the similarities between the parties. btw same thing here, the centre is really crowded.

Anyway, no matter, my point was about similarities, if they're not there then that boots me out of the argument :D

[red states rule]

I'm glad to hear it because I read and hear so much about the similarities between the parties. btw same thing here, the centre is really crowded.

Anyway, no matter, my point was about similarities, if they're not there then that boots me out of the argument :D

You should know what you are talking about before jumping into the discussion

[bluestatesrule]

I am predicting that the republicans will win in 2008.....and the American public will get what it deserves.

[bluestatesrule]

Hey.....the surge is working...even the Irian President is playing a "positive and constructive" role in Iraq.....

[bluestatesrule]

If the surge is working why are so many republicans nervous? I guess we can blame that on those damn liberals....or the "drive by media"

[bluestatesrule]

Oh...and Dubya's war is being fought for all the right reasons.....as Eugene Robinson pointed out in todays post.....we can invade and occupy a county and employ western style democracy at the point of a gun. Ask the British what happened when they tried to do it here.....they accused us of committing acts of terrorism against them?

[theHawk]

Oh...and Dubya's war is being fought for all the right reasons.....as Eugene Robinson pointed out in todays post.....we can invade and occupy a county and employ western style democracy at the point of a gun. Ask the British what happened when they tried to do it here.....they accused us of committing acts of terrorism against them?

Maybe Eugene Robinson needs to brush up on his history. First of all the British didn't invade and occupy us to instill a western style democracy. They were here all along as colonialists imposing their Europeon style monarchy. Thats really comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps Mr. Robinson and folks like yourself would rather have tyrannical dictators oppressing people and raping and pillaging their neighbors.

[Trigg]

Then the majority of voters will reject the agenda.

Exactly, once again the American public will vote in a legal election.

Lets just hope the if the republicans win again our media and foreign press won't start screaming about the election being stolen.

[diuretic]

You should know what you are talking about before jumping into the discussion

If I did that I'd learn nothing, simply reinforce what I already know. I try to keep an open mind and accept new ideas. Closed-mindedness is the mark of the ignorant.

[diuretic]

Maybe Eugene Robinson needs to brush up on his history. First of all the British didn't invade and occupy us to instill a western style democracy. They were here all along as colonialists imposing their Europeon style monarchy. Thats really comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps Mr. Robinson and folks like yourself would rather have tyrannical dictators oppressing people and raping and pillaging their neighbors.

What about the original inhabitants? :laugh2:

[diuretic]

Exactly, once again the American public will vote in a legal election.

Lets just hope the if the republicans win again our media and foreign press won't start screaming about the election being stolen.

Sadly because of the shambolic electoral system in the US the chances of a "legal" election are fairly slim.

[Kathianne]

Sadly because of the shambolic electoral system in the US the chances of a "legal" election are fairly slim.

:lame2: Not often that I go to a sign, but justified here.

[Gaffer]

Oh...and Dubya's war is being fought for all the right reasons.....as Eugene Robinson pointed out in todays post.....we can invade and occupy a county and employ western style democracy at the point of a gun. Ask the British what happened when they tried to do it here.....they accused us of committing acts of terrorism against them?

We installed democracy in Japan and Germany at the point of a gun. It worked pretty well. I think we need to do it a little more often. As for the British, we established our own democracy by defeating them..at the point of a gun.

[diuretic]

:lame2: Not often that I go to a sign, but justified here.

By all means hoist the sign, doesn't change the fact that your electoral system is not just shambolic, it's corrupted.

[diuretic]

We installed democracy in Japan and Germany at the point of a gun. It worked pretty well. I think we need to do it a little more often. As for the British, we established our own democracy by defeating them..at the point of a gun.

Unfortunately for Germany, "you" (meaning the Allies), only did half the job, "you" allowed the Soviets to expand. However I'm realistic enough to understand why that had to happen. Unfortunately for "you" the clownish administration you're suffering under now hasn't half the wit of previous administrations of either political stripe. German and Japan were examples of democracy (read "capitalism") being imposed on destroyed nations. Those nations invited their own destruction with their rampant imperialism. Iraq, a functioning society without imperialist tendencies, had to be destroyed by the West before it could be "rebuilt". It's just a pity that Iraq is about to split into three parts or become yet another Shi'ite Islamic republic.

[red states rule]

I am predicting that the republicans will win in 2008.....and the American public will get what it deserves.

killing and capturing terrorists

lower taxes

reduced spending and less pork

conservative Judges who do not make law from the bench

a secure border with the immigration laws enforced

Everything that the left is opposed to

[red states rule]

Hey.....the surge is working...even the Irian President is playing a "positive and constructive" role in Iraq.....

and Dems and the liberal media are pissed off about it. They put their political future in the dfeat of the US in Iraq

And m now the US militray is fucking them over by winning the damn war

[red states rule]

If the surge is working why are so many republicans nervous? I guess we can blame that on those damn liberals....or the "drive by media"

and they might have a big ol' shit burger to eat along with the Defeatocrats when the report is issued next month

[red states rule]

Exactly, once again the American public will vote in a legal election.

Lets just hope the if the republicans win again our media and foreign press won't start screaming about the election being stolen.

Oh they will. Dems will never admit it when the voters reject their liberalism. The election was either stolen, or the voters were to stupid to understand the issues - or both

[red states rule]

Sadly because of the shambolic electoral system in the US the chances of a "legal" election are fairly slim.

Funny how libs never have a problem with the Electoral College when a Dem wins the election

[Trigg]

Sadly because of the shambolic electoral system in the US the chances of a "legal" election are fairly slim.

I saw RSR asked this same question, but it begs to be asked again.

When happends if, god forbid, the dems win the next election?????????

Will you still be saying the election wasn't legal because our process is in shambles???????????????????

Or, since the "good guys" won, will it be legal????????????????????

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Whoever wins the next election it will be a LEGAL election. No one will have stolen it.

[musicman]

From the article: With the general election still 15 months away, the Republican creatures in the forest can afford to wait, sniffing the air as the scent of blood approaches.

Before the Republicans start feeling any glee about the scent of blood, they'd better start addressing themselves to why so much of THEIRS got spilled in '06. The Republican base is PISSED, and I'd like to see a few more signs indicating that the GOP has gotten the message. So far, I'm not thrilled.

[red states rule]

Before the Republicans start feeling any glee about the scent of blood, they'd better start addressing themselves to why so much of THEIRS got spilled in '06. The Republican base is PISSED, and I'd like to see a few more signs indicating that the GOP has gotten the message. So far, I'm not thrilled.

There are signs some Republicans are trying to pull the party back to Reagan conservatism

The Dems are doing their part by moving further to the left

Time will tell if Republicans are smart enough to take advantage

[red states rule]

Here is how the liberal talking heads in the media view things


Margaret Carlson: 'Democratic Base Is Really the Middle American Base'
By Brent Baker | August 13, 2007 - 03:40 ET
The left-wing AFL-CIO union labor and Human Rights Campaign gay rights forums with Democratic presidential candidates held last week “suggest to me that the Democratic base is really the middle American base now,” former Time magazine Deputy Washington Bureau Chief Margaret Carlson declared on Sunday's Meet the Press. During the roundtable, Carlson, now a columnist for Bloomberg News and Washington Editor of The Week magazine, asserted that an “amendment to discriminate against gays” is not politically viable and “as the middle class feels in trouble, the labor position becomes a majority position.” She contended that “the person who won” the AFL-CIO “debate was the steel worker who stood up and said, 'I worked for 36 years and every morning I sit across from my wife, and I say' -- to the steel company -- 'why don't have I health care and why don't I have a pension?' They're bewildered by what happened.”

In fact, Steve Skvara, at the August 7 forum shown on MSNBC, targeted America for his complaint about why others don't pay for his wife's health care after his ex-employer, LTV Steel, went bankrupt: “Every day of my life, I sit at the kitchen table across from the woman who devoted 36 years of her life to my family, and I can't afford to pay for her health care. What's wrong with America? And what will you do to change it?”

As noted in my August 8 NewsBusters item, Skvara agreed with the call by John Edwards for universal, government-provided health care coverage.

As for the agenda of the Human Rights Campaign matching middle America, same-sex marriage does not enjoy majority support and Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards refused to endorse same-sex marriage. Two candidates, Joe Biden and Chris Dodd, did not even show up for the forum carried August 9 by CBS's Logo cable channel.

On the August 12 Meet the Press, moderated by David Gregory, Carlson appeared with Time's Michael Duffy, National Review's Byron York and NBC's Chuck Todd. Carlson maintained:


Well, you know, the labor and the Human Rights Campaign forums and debates this week suggest to me that the Democratic base is really the middle American base now. And if you look at polls on how people feel about things, it’s true. The fight that was had last time over gays, I don’t think we’re going to have that this time. I don’t think Bush saying there’s going to be an amendment to discriminate against gays, I don’t think that’s going to come up with quite that passion this time around.

And on the labor thing, the Democrats sounded, you know, like they would work your second shift, they wanted the labor vote so badly. And Mrs. Clinton said, you know, “I’m your girl.” But as the middle class feels in trouble, the labor position becomes a majority position. And the person who won that debate was the steel worker who stood up and said, “I worked for 36 years and every morning I sit across from my wife, and I say" -- to the steel company -- "why don’t have I health care and why don’t I have a pension?” They’re bewildered by what happened.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2007/08/13/margaret-carlson-democratic-base-really-middle-american-base

[gabosaurus]

Why shouldn't the GOP smell blood? They are responsible for enough it.
It is that blood which will cost them the election. Americans are sick of the thousands of countrymen that the Bushies sent to die in Iraq. A vote for the GOP means more wars and more deaths.
If you want bigger and bloodier wars, more gun-fueled massacre, more hate and prejudice and more discrimination, vote Republican in 2008.

[red states rule]

Why shouldn't the GOP smell blood? They are responsible for enough it.
It is that blood which will cost them the election. Americans are sick of the thousands of countrymen that the Bushies sent to die in Iraq. A vote for the GOP means more wars and more deaths.
If you want bigger and bloodier wars, more gun-fueled massacre, more hate and prejudice and more discrimination, vote Republican in 2008.

Ypu must have missed, or ignored, the polls showing more people are supporting the surge and hearing about the progress being made in Iraq

[actsnoblemartin]

YOu are right.


and there you have the crux of the problem......candidates on both sides weigh themselves and sell themselves on how well they can fight the other political party.....nobody gives a rat's ass anymore about leading the country or solving the country's problems......

[red states rule]

YOu are right.

Dems would be so much worse however. Looks at the mess they have created in only 8 months

[PostmodernProphet]

Looks at the mess they have created in only 8 months


???....where do you see something they have done?......they make a lot of noise, but I don't see much action....

[red states rule]

???....where do you see something they have done?......they make a lot of noise, but I don't see much action....

That is my point. The best thig they have accomplished is the all time record low approval numbers for Congress

[PostmodernProphet]

then stop complaining....personally, I like a Congress that is not doing anything....particularly when the liberals are in control.....

[red states rule]

then stop complaining....personally, I like a Congress that is not doing anything....particularly when the liberals are in control.....

Who is complaining twit? I am responding to the left who are blaming Pres Bush and Republicans for their low poll numbers

Even the liberal rag The Nation is pissed at the Dems

[emmett]

I saw RSR asked this same question, but it begs to be asked again.

When happends if, god forbid, the dems win the next election?????????

Will you still be saying the election wasn't legal because our process is in shambles???????????????????

Or, since the "good guys" won, will it be legal????????????????????

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Whoever wins the next election it will be a LEGAL election. No one will have stolen it.

Democratic leadership since the election speaks pretty clearly for itself. Don't get your hopes up too high. I hate to see you get disappointed.