Interesting To Me

[Kathianne]

If things have seemed to be a bit chaotic, it could be it was just a preamble?

https://www.axios.com/trumps-cascade-of-crises-2478555731.html

Much more to come?

[michiganFats]

If things have seemed to be a bit chaotic, it could be it was just a preamble?

https://www.axios.com/trumps-cascade-of-crises-2478555731.html

Much more to come?

I think your story is right, he's bucking the establishment.

[Kathianne]

Well, maybe so:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/28/cracks-in-cabinet-tillerson-others-seen-distancing-themselves-from-trump.html

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Well, maybe so:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/28/cracks-in-cabinet-tillerson-others-seen-distancing-themselves-from-trump.html
So... where's the problem here? I don't see any "distancing." I see a man speaking for himself and not the president, which speaking for the president isn't his job... so, where's the problem?

This is the type of opinion reporting that gives stories the name, fake news, especially the first story... another "unnamed source says" story. I am so sick of that garbage.

[Kathianne]

So... where's the problem here? I don't see any "distancing." I see a man speaking for himself and not the president, which speaking for the president isn't his job... so, where's the problem?

This is the type of opinion reporting that gives stories the name, fake news, especially the first story... another "unnamed source says" story. I am so sick of that garbage.

Not really unnamed. Tillerson was directly quoted and said he was 'speaking for Americans' and Trump 'was speaking for himself.' That is a problem, at least as I read things.

I do know that losing more of his staff, especially cabinet will not be good, but is likely. Then again, maybe it's just more of purging to 'drain the swamp.'

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Not really unnamed. Tillerson was directly quoted and said he was 'speaking for Americans' and Trump 'was speaking for himself.' That is a problem, at least as I read things.

I do know that losing more of his staff, especially cabinet will not be good, but is likely. Then again, maybe it's just more of purging to 'drain the swamp.'
It was the Axiom story with the unnamed source.

[Kathianne]

It was the Axiom story with the unnamed source.

The quotes were from two Sunday news programs, but it is what it is. It's the content, not the source.

[Kathianne]

It was the Axiom story with the unnamed source.

Maybe this will be more of interest to you? http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/08/27/tillerson-declines-to-say-if-trump-defends-american-values-the-president-speaks-for-himself/

I want Trump to succeed, I don't like him as a person, but he is the President. If he fails, so does the country.

[jimnyc]

I always remind myself of the politically correct and corrupt establishment out there, on both sides of course. And me dying to get someone in there that wasn't like the rest, someone not politically correct and will tell the rest to shove it, and that what he cares about is not them as much, but America and the voters.

He's FAR from perfect, but closer to what I want, much closer, than any of the politicians that were already there. And of course someone as such is going to garner attention, drama and hatred. There are times he is wrong, and gets soundly condemned for his words and stances. And then there are times he does/says exactly what I expected from such a person, and then of course he gets soundly condemned anyway. :laugh:

There will be problems, he won't be perfect, such folks despise a man coming in as he did. This will attract those that don't want change in Washington, don't want someone stepping on their toes.

So long as he keeps the course and tries to go after the agenda he has stated all along, I'm ok with him and his faults, and yes he has them!

[Kathianne]

I always remind myself of the politically correct and corrupt establishment out there, on both sides of course. And me dying to get someone in there that wasn't like the rest, someone not politically correct and will tell the rest to shove it, and that what he cares about is not them as much, but America and the voters.

He's FAR from perfect, but closer to what I want, much closer, than any of the politicians that were already there. And of course someone as such is going to garner attention, drama and hatred. There are times he is wrong, and gets soundly condemned for his words and stances. And then there are times he does/says exactly what I expected from such a person, and then of course he gets soundly condemned anyway. :laugh:

There will be problems, he won't be perfect, such folks despise a man coming in as he did. This will attract those that don't want change in Washington, don't want someone stepping on their toes.

So long as he keeps the course and tries to go after the agenda he has stated all along, I'm ok with him and his faults, and yes he has them!

We see him differently, which is fine. I don't assume you want something bad, just because you like him.

Truth is, he does nothing right according to the left. OTOH, he doesn't do anything wrong according to his supporters. Oh, they'll say, "He's not PC," which isn't really the problem with the things he's said. I hoped, really that there would be some 'normalizing,' but it's not going to happen and I don't think I'd buy it now if it appeared to happen.

In spite of my dislike, I work at trying to see when he does something I think is right and do think I'm usually the first to say so on this board. Many don't catch it, since if it 'relates to Trump' they assume it's going to be negative, but not always, or even usually.

Yes, I haven't a problem posting unfavorable actions, I'll continue to do so. However, in the main I've done what I said from the get go. I'll post good or bad things he's done, imo.

[michiganFats]

We see him differently, which is fine. I don't assume you want something bad, just because you like him.

Truth is, he does nothing right according to the left. OTOH, he doesn't do anything wrong according to his supporters. Oh, they'll say, "He's not PC," which isn't really the problem with the things he's said. I hoped, really that there would be some 'normalizing,' but it's not going to happen and I don't think I'd buy it now if it appeared to happen.

In spite of my dislike, I work at trying to see when he does something I think is right and do think I'm usually the first to say so on this board. Many don't catch it, since if it 'relates to Trump' they assume it's going to be negative, but not always, or even usually.

Yes, I haven't a problem posting unfavorable actions, I'll continue to do so. However, in the main I've done what I said from the get go. I'll post good or bad things he's done, imo.

I voted for him but sometimes I agree with you too.

[jimnyc]

Truth is, he does nothing right according to the left. OTOH, he doesn't do anything wrong according to his supporters.

Not sure if this is from articles, comments on those articles, the news media or what they say or whatever. But EVERY politician is wrong at times, that's just a simple and common fact, and Trump is obviously no different. In fact, his PC and brash ways will have more folks speaking out at times. But I don't see his supporters claiming he is a saint or doesn't do anything wrong at all. Don't mistake folks defending him from the retarded left and endless accusation and literally made up things, that doesn't mean those folks think Trump is problem free.

His supporters, myself, of course defend him from the non-stop attacks, and lame accusations and such. But like every other politician in the world, he makes mistakes, is wrong at times & has a very big mouth that causes problems, even if that big fat mouth of his is one of the things I love about him.

It's politics though, and political debate, so naturally when the endless things happen, his supporters will mostly and endlessly support him. But there's a difference between supporting someone, even if they may be wrong at times - as opposed to folks thinking he is a saint that can literally do no wrong. I honestly don't see that from his supporters, but I do see them continually having to defend him from the things he is right about, or against the things that are endlessly being made up.

[michiganFats]

Not sure if this is from articles, comments on those articles, the news media or what they say or whatever. But EVERY politician is wrong at times, that's just a simple and common fact, and Trump is obviously no different. In fact, his PC and brash ways will have more folks speaking out at times. But I don't see his supporters claiming he is a saint or doesn't do anything wrong at all. Don't mistake folks defending him from the retarded left and endless accusation and literally made up things, that doesn't mean those folks think Trump is problem free.

His supporters, myself, of course defend him from the non-stop attacks, and lame accusations and such. But like every other politician in the world, he makes mistakes, is wrong at times & has a very big mouth that causes problems, even if that big fat mouth of his is one of the things I love about him.

It's politics though, and political debate, so naturally when the endless things happen, his supporters will mostly and endlessly support him. But there's a difference between supporting someone, even if they may be wrong at times - as opposed to folks thinking he is a saint that can literally do no wrong. I honestly don't see that from his supporters, but I do see them continually having to defend him from the things he is right about, or against the things that are endlessly being made up.

Jim, do you draw these distinctions with every group of people?

[jimnyc]

Jim, do you draw these distinctions with every group of people?

Which distinction, can you be more specific with your question?

[Kathianne]

Not sure if this is from articles, comments on those articles, the news media or what they say or whatever. But EVERY politician is wrong at times, that's just a simple and common fact, and Trump is obviously no different. In fact, his PC and brash ways will have more folks speaking out at times. But I don't see his supporters claiming he is a saint or doesn't do anything wrong at all. Don't mistake folks defending him from the retarded left and endless accusation and literally made up things, that doesn't mean those folks think Trump is problem free.

His supporters, myself, of course defend him from the non-stop attacks, and lame accusations and such. But like every other politician in the world, he makes mistakes, is wrong at times & has a very big mouth that causes problems, even if that big fat mouth of his is one of the things I love about him.

It's politics though, and political debate, so naturally when the endless things happen, his supporters will mostly and endlessly support him. But there's a difference between supporting someone, even if they may be wrong at times - as opposed to folks thinking he is a saint that can literally do no wrong. I honestly don't see that from his supporters, but I do see them continually having to defend him from the things he is right about, or against the things that are endlessly being made up.


Of all the 'crisis' he's had, mostly self-inflicted, which do you blame for his actions, not just how he puts it? You don't have to answer, not trying to call you out in anyway.

Perhaps it's the nature of really liking a politician, especially one as unique as Trump? I've heard from you and others-here and elsewhere, 'If only he'd stay off Twitter or get someone to vet before he tweets...' 'He's not PC, people assume the worst just because he's rude and crude...' 'Not going to criticize him, it's never ending criticism, he can't catch any break they give all other presidents...'

[michiganFats]

Which distinction, can you be more specific with your question?

Ah, you're pretending you've been in another thread. OK.

EDIT: I worded that wrong. You're pretending you've never been in any other thread. You know exactly what I mean.

[jimnyc]

Of all the 'crisis' he's had, mostly self-inflicted, which do you blame for his actions, not just how he puts it? You don't have to answer, not trying to call you out in anyway.

Perhaps it's the nature of really liking a politician, especially one as unique as Trump? I've heard from you and others-here and elsewhere, 'If only he'd stay off Twitter or get someone to vet before he tweets...' 'He's not PC, people assume the worst just because he's rude and crude...' 'Not going to criticize him, it's never ending criticism, he can't catch any break they give all other presidents...'

Well, first, I don't think that 'most' were self inflicted. Perhaps he said something folks don't like, but I think the responses to some things were worse than what he said! <--- sometimes, not all.

Some were in the primaries, Words more than actions. Attacking Mccain, then stating he would bring back waterboarding and all. Whether one disagrees or not, that stuff is obvious and would obviously get him in hot water. Taxes? Right or wrong, makes him look to be hiding something.

I agree with him about Mexico and illegal immigration and what not. He could have worded things better anyway, even if "I" appreciate the PC. Folks ran with it and kinda changed what he said as a result, and he's STILL dealing with it.

Too many vacations, and not just because he called out Obama because of the same. Too many games of golf, and not just because he called out Obama because of the same.

Twitter overall, while I love a ton of it. I said many many times he should get an editor or similar, but that the idea of bypassing the MSM is great.

While I thought good choices at the time, it's clear he made some bad choices for the WH.

I think Ivanka and the WH is no issue, and I think she's brilliant, and offers a much different attitude than Dad. I don't believe Kushner was a good choice.

And back to his big mouth. Did I mention he has a very big mouth? And sometimes I'm cool with that.... but he needs to know how to harness it. It's great in negotiations with NYC folks over billion dollar real estate deals - but "ya gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em" - and he doesn't always know the difference between 'behind closed doors at the WH' and when he is using twitter and speaking to the world.

I could go on and on, but not everything is fatal, not everything is harmful. But of course the man has made mistakes and will continue.

---

But I still think the larger problem is congress, MUCH larger problem for our country, MUCH MUCH larger. And if a senator doesn't like Trump, I can't blame them, but they for sure as shit shouldn't be voting based on ANYTHING to do with that. If I see my senator who represents my state - fucking u and voting the complete opposite of what folks want, what polls state and all that jazz, I would want to and will vote that person out!

[Kathianne]

Well, first, I don't think that 'most' were self inflicted. Perhaps he said something folks don't like, but I think the responses to some things were worse than what he said! <--- sometimes, not all.

Some were in the primaries, Words more than actions. Attacking Mccain, then stating he would bring back waterboarding and all. Whether one disagrees or not, that stuff is obvious and would obviously get him in hot water. Taxes? Right or wrong, makes him look to be hiding something.

I agree with him about Mexico and illegal immigration and what not. He could have worded things better anyway, even if "I" appreciate the PC. Folks ran with it and kinda changed what he said as a result, and he's STILL dealing with it.

Too many vacations, and not just because he called out Obama because of the same. Too many games of golf, and not just because he called out Obama because of the same.

Twitter overall, while I love a ton of it. I said many many times he should get an editor or similar, but that the idea of bypassing the MSM is great.

While I thought good choices at the time, it's clear he made some bad choices for the WH.

I think Ivanka and the WH is no issue, and I think she's brilliant, and offers a much different attitude than Dad. I don't believe Kushner was a good choice.

And back to his big mouth. Did I mention he has a very big mouth? And sometimes I'm cool with that.... but he needs to know how to harness it. It's great in negotiations with NYC folks over billion dollar real estate deals - but "ya gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em" - and he doesn't always know the difference between 'behind closed doors at the WH' and when he is using twitter and speaking to the world.

I could go on and on, but not everything is fatal, not everything is harmful. But of course the man has made mistakes and will continue.

---

But I still think the larger problem is congress, MUCH larger problem for our country, MUCH MUCH larger. And if a senator doesn't like Trump, I can't blame them, but they for sure as shit shouldn't be voting based on ANYTHING to do with that. If I see my senator who represents my state - fucking u and voting the complete opposite of what folks want, what polls state and all that jazz, I would want to and will vote that person out!


That's more 'fault addressing' than I've seen before, though most is on style, which is fine. We obviously disagree on the self-inflicted, again that's fine and both of us have a right to how we see things.

Not everything is fatal, nor are most, on that we agree. Things though are cumulative and his are adding up on the negative side, again just my opinion.

Time will tell if the draining of the swamp regarding GOP is his best bet. Seems like another f-up to me, but I've been wrong before. ;)

[jimnyc]

Not sure if this is from articles, comments on those articles, the news media or what they say or whatever. But EVERY politician is wrong at times, that's just a simple and common fact, and Trump is obviously no different. In fact, his PC and brash ways will have more folks speaking out at times. But I don't see his supporters claiming he is a saint or doesn't do anything wrong at all. Don't mistake folks defending him from the retarded left and endless accusation and literally made up things, that doesn't mean those folks think Trump is problem free.

His supporters, myself, of course defend him from the non-stop attacks, and lame accusations and such. But like every other politician in the world, he makes mistakes, is wrong at times & has a very big mouth that causes problems, even if that big fat mouth of his is one of the things I love about him.

It's politics though, and political debate, so naturally when the endless things happen, his supporters will mostly and endlessly support him. But there's a difference between supporting someone, even if they may be wrong at times - as opposed to folks thinking he is a saint that can literally do no wrong. I honestly don't see that from his supporters, but I do see them continually having to defend him from the things he is right about, or against the things that are endlessly being made up.


Jim, do you draw these distinctions with every group of people?


Which distinction, can you be more specific with your question?


Ah, you're pretending you've been in another thread. OK.

EDIT: I worded that wrong. You're pretending you've never been in any other thread. You know exactly what I mean.

Huh? WTF? I went through various topics, stances, POV's or whatever you care to call it. I tried to be as honest and truthful, and to point out that I know he's not perfect. I didn't want to come off as claiming he was perfection across the board.

But then you came back with a question about 'groups' of people. I was 100% serious and truthful with my question. I really wasn't sure what you meant, or what you were asking me, and didn't want to appear stupid by answering like a knucklehead in the wrong direction or whatever. Hell, and I'm still not sure, but I wasn't sure if you're referring to Trump, groups of politicians, races?

But if you want to be a complete dick, simply because I asked an inquiry before I answered, and said absolutely nothing wrong, and would have been MORE than happy to give an honest response of course - as soon as I knew exactly what you were asking of me. But you come back and accuse me of knowing "exactly" what you mean. Am I a mind reader, do you think? I'm not going to ask a question for no reason at all. I NEVER avoid answering things asked of me, and ANYONE here will vouch for that. So I am clueless as to why you think I'm avoiding something, or knowing what you mean and purposely asking anyway or whatever? I dunno.

But quite frankly, if you're going to make assumptions and accusations, over the tiniest of questions, before I can even answer. Then save your questions for someone else. I've been nothing but MORE than polite and respectful with you. Not sure why this came about. But whatever, I have no need to waste my time with someone over something like this. Go play games with the next person to answer then.

[Abbey Marie]

...
Truth is, he does nothing right according to the left. OTOH, he doesn't do anything wrong according to his supporters.
...
.

I would say that the above is true regarding just about any politician. In fact, if anything Trump has fewer party-line supporters than most.

[Kathianne]

I would say that the above is true regarding just about any politician. In fact, if anything Trump has fewer party-line supporters than most.

Not exactly true, there were those democrats that did come out or find fault with Obama on some key issues, evidenced by his inability to get much legislation through once his health care plan was pushed through.

There are plenty of examples with Bush's war in Iraq and also with Katrina, as current events remind us.

Nixon resigned when it became obvious impeachment was at hand and it would be a bi-partisan conviction.

Johnson chose not to run a second term when his party leadership abandoned him over a war.

Lots more examples, but I'm heading off to work in a few.

[Abbey Marie]

Not exactly true, there were those democrats that did come out or find fault with Obama on some key issues, evidenced by his inability to get much legislation through once his health care plan was pushed through.

There are plenty of examples with Bush's war in Iraq and also with Katrina, as current events remind us.

Nixon resigned when it became obvious impeachment was at hand and it would be a bi-partisan conviction.

Johnson chose not to run a second term when his party leadership abandoned him over a war.

Lots more examples, but I'm heading off to work in a few.

Except that none of these things occurred right or soon after election. It seems to me that we were expected to find lots of fault with Trump very quickly. He was never given a grace period or honeymoon. And I am still very consciously aware of the bullets we dodged by not having to deal with President Hillary. I will continue to ignore the outrageously biased tripe from the MSM and give him a chance.

[Kathianne]

Except that none of these things occurred right or soon after election. It seems to me that we were expected to find lots of fault with Trump very quickly. He was never given a grace period or honeymoon. And I am still very consciously aware of the bullets we dodged by not having to deal with President Hillary. I will continue to ignore the outrageously biased tripe from the MSM and give him a chance.

I'm going to say what I did to a friend over dinner not long ago when she said the same, "The whole reason you voted for the man was he was an outsider, not a politician, wouldn't say the right things, or ever go along. Why would you expect normal actions from any others in reaction or expectations? "

You got different. It's what those that elected him wanted.

[Black Diamond]

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2017/08/28/flashback-bill-clintons-chaotic-confused-failing-first-year-as-president/

[Kathianne]

http://amp.dailycaller.com/2017/08/28/flashback-bill-clintons-chaotic-confused-failing-first-year-as-president/

Very true. That first year was 'all scandals' and that's nearly laughable since it didn't include Monica.

Sure, Trump could turn it around, but first he has to play nice with others. He's done nothing to endear himself to Congress nor appeal to anyone who didn't vote for him-even those that reluctantly voted for him. The highest praise he gets from those is, 'He's not Hillary' and 'Gorsuch.' Both fine reasons, but not going to engender enthusiasm like those that actually like him.

[aboutime]

What has become really interesting to me is: There really IS NO reason for me, or others who support the President to DEFEND him. He is, after all. The President, and nothing, but nothing, any of us says here...Means anything to him.

You can dislike him, put him down, call him names, accuse him of everything you want, but...As long as he follows his Oath, the the Constitution.

There is nothing you can do...other than whine, complain, feel upset, be offended, or be insulted because YOU are feeling bad that YOU didn't want him to win, and HE DID.
<img src="https://pics.me.me/trump-is-gonna-make-me-work-for-my-benefits-suck-9444110.png">

<img src="https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Suck_36d6c8_6087369.jpg">