What is the goal in Afghanistan ?

[Black Diamond]

and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?

[Kathianne]

and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?

Doesn't sound much like a 'surge.' Seems according to Tillerson they'll consider a draw a win of sorts.

Either go big or leave, the goal in staying should be to drive the Taliban to extinction.

[Black Diamond]

Doesn't sound much like a 'surge.' Seems according to Tillerson they'll consider a draw a win of sorts.

Either go big or leave, the goal in staying should be to drive the Taliban to extinction.
Sounds like a good goal. Two presidents have failed to achieve "victory" there. As did the British Empire and soviet empire

[Kathianne]

Sounds like a good goal. Two presidents have failed to achieve "victory" there. As did the British Empire and soviet empire

In my opinion Obama picked the wrong war to walk away from. Can't see the logic in what seems to be going on. Win or just get out.

[Black Diamond]

Where is Dr zawahiri ? Is it still the goal to kill him and other leaders?

[hjmick]

If history is any indication, there is no victory.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás


Make no mistake, folks, throughout history there have been many an example of the futility of pursuing "victory" in that part of the world.

[Black Diamond]

If history is any indication, there is no victory.


Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás


Make no mistake, folks, throughout history there have been many an example of the futility of pursuing "victory" in that part of the world.
Why haven't three presidents understood that ?

what are other motives

[hjmick]

Why haven't three presidents understood that ?

what are other motives


Hubris.

[Black Diamond]

Hubris.
If we don't know what the goal is, how do we know whether or not we are successful ?

[Gunny]

If we don't know what the goal is, how do we know whether or not we are successful ?The "goal" was to get bin Laden. The Taliban said no, we went after him.

Then it was to get rid of the Taliban for harboring bin Laden. Bin Laden's dead. What's left is another Vietnam, the US trying to "bring democracy" to a people that could care less. They're more worried about their poppy crop and don't care WHO claims to be in charge.

The problem with offering "freedom and democracy" is they have to choose freedom and democracy when they have no notion of what it is.

[Black Diamond]

The "goal" was to get bin Laden. The Taliban said no, we went after him.

Then it was to get rid of the Taliban for harboring bin Laden. Bin Laden's dead. What's left is another Vietnam, the US trying to "bring democracy" to a people that could care less. They're more worried about their poppy crop and don't care WHO claims to be in charge.

The problem with offering "freedom and democracy" is they have to choose freedom and democracy when they have no notion of what it is.
I agree re freedom and democracy. I think with regard to Iraq, we had 3 choices. Keep Saddam, remove Saddam and put another dictator in power or put democracy in place and leave troops there 100 years. All the options listed are better than what we did.

[Black Diamond]

But is freedom and democracy the goal in Afghanistan ?

[Kathianne]

But is freedom and democracy the goal in Afghanistan ?

It would be a futile goal. Their culture is one of tribalism and there's not one hint that they want change regarding that.

[Black Diamond]

It would be a futile goal. Their culture is one of tribalism and there's not one hint that they want change regarding that.
Agreed. Borderline or not so borderline failed state.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

From what I hear they don't want to leave another vacuum and have the taliban regroup and build terrorist training camps again. But the way I see, that could be best thing they could possibly do. Leave, let the terrorists all group into a huge new camp, and then drop a freakin' MOAB on them. What better way to kill terrorists than that? Just have them all get in one place FOR YOU, then KILL THEM.

[Gunny]

I agree re freedom and democracy. I think with regard to Iraq, we had 3 choices. Keep Saddam, remove Saddam and put another dictator in power or put democracy in place and leave troops there 100 years. All the options listed are better than what we did.Never been bashful on this one. Going into Iraq was stupid. It was a strategic, tactical and geopolitical disaster from the word go. We had Saddam contained and THAT was our best option.

Invading caused enough problems. But it was still controllable right up to Barry claiming victory and pulling the only stable force out. Just compounding one f*ckup with a more costly and disastrous one.

Those idiots have been fighting since when the Hell ever over their turf. They've been expanding into the West since the Greeks ruled. Only way to stop them is kill them. We can leave Afghanistan and claim whatever. Just a matter of time for us them. They're all over Europe already.

[aboutime]

All war is futile, and stupid. Since time began. There has never REALLY been a Winner of any war. Only politicians, and anarchists get the spoils, and the people keep dying.

Contrary to what I believe...most civilians think. People in the Military DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WAR. They tend to Die.

[Black Diamond]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10810&stc=1

[Gunny]

All war is futile, and stupid. Since time began. There has never REALLY been a Winner of any war. Only politicians, and anarchists get the spoils, and the people keep dying.

Contrary to what I believe...most civilians think. People in the Military DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WAR. They tend to Die.
Couple of points. Those who "want" war have never been to one. I don't recall having any fun. The "never have been's", snowflake doves, and people who don't understand war assume automatically that being willing to do what is ultimately THEIR dirty work doesn't mean "wanting" shit.

War is only futile if it is misused. We started sucking at war when our politicians lost their balls and wouldn't stick with a job to the end. Don't like the answers to what's got to be done to win a war? Ask the questions BEFORE starting some half-ass shit.

[michiganFats]

and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?

The goal is nation building. I've seen it worded different ways but that's what it is. We want a strong, pro-Western central government in Afghanistan and we won't get that because that doesn't reflect the will of their people. Managing Afghanistan is really a job for the CIA, not the military.

[revelarts]

and what does victory look like/can it be achieved?


Why haven't three presidents understood that?
what are other motives

QUOTE=hjmick "Hubris."
agreed AND...

>To control the land to create the TAPI natural Gas pipeline through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Indian and others
>Get the poppy production going. ---up 90% since fall of Taliban, and now Afghanistan is the world's largest supplier of heroin, troops protecting poppy fields and NATO planes flying out TONS of drugs etc---
>Secure the land for other newly discovered resources such as rare earth minerals that are used in computer/phone manufacturing.
>Part of the "Great Game" for control/influence of central Asia by the western powers vs Russia (or vs true national independence for the various countries in the region)
>staying secures another long border jumping off point into Iran if the U.S. ever decides that Iran is being too independent or too powerful...doh I MEAN "a threat" to the U.S. mainland:rolleyes:.
>extra points ... keeps the Military industrial complex busy, 16 years -and counting- of uninterrupted cash flow.

so yeah, all the above.
let the denials begin.

[michiganFats]

QUOTE=hjmick "Hubris."
agreed AND...

>To control the land to create the TAPI natural Gas pipeline through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Indian and others
>Get the poppy production going. ---up 90% since fall of Taliban, and now Afghanistan is the world's largest supplier of heroin, troops protecting poppy fields and NATO planes flying out TONS of drugs etc---
>Secure the land for other newly discovered resources such as rare earth minerals that are used in computer/phone manufacturing.
>Part of the "Great Game" for control/influence of central Asia by the western powers vs Russia (or vs true national independence for the various countries in the region)
>staying secures another long border jumping off point into Iran if the U.S. ever decides that Iran is being too independent or too powerful...doh I MEAN "a threat" to the U.S. mainland:rolleyes:.
>extra points ... keeps the Military industrial complex busy, 16 years -and counting- of uninterrupted cash flow.

so yeah, all the above.
let the denials begin.

Poppy fields and keeping contractors busy and profitable, that's about it.

[Gunny]

Poppy fields and keeping contractors busy and profitable, that's about it.Rev thinks we're the bad guys. His cynicism is however QUITE selective, and rotational. One thread he's crying "Constitution" and the next excessive force by people trying to enforce the laws in it.

I think he just likes to see his words in print and Rowdy Roddy Piper's face in his avatar. That man-crush goes back YEARS (actually, He identifies himself with Piper's character in a WWE "C" movie "They Live" where Piper has special glasses that allow him to be the only one to see the "truth" -- a fascist world run by automatons). If you get the chance to see the movie ... DON'T:laugh:.

[michiganFats]

Rev thinks we're the bad guys. His cynicism is however QUITE selective, and rotational. One thread he's crying "Constitution" and the next excessive force by people trying to enforce the laws in it.

I think he just likes to see his words in print and Rowdy Roddy Piper's face in his avatar. That man-crush goes back YEARS (actually, He identifies himself with Piper's character in a WWE "C" movie "They Live" where Piper has special glasses that allow him to be the only one to see the "truth" -- a fascist world run by automatons). If you get the chance to see the movie ... DON'T:laugh:.

He's not wrong about the poppies though. Ask anyone who set foot in Afghanistan what the one thing you can't fuck with is, they will all say the poppy fields.

[Gunny]

He's not wrong about the poppies though. Ask anyone who set foot in Afghanistan what the one thing you can't fuck with is, they will all say the poppy fields.Nope, he isn't always wrong. Just the way he goes about it sometimes. I mentioned the poppies without going in depth.

It's their main cash crop. The President's brother is one of the biggest dust dealers in the country and uses US assets to protect his shipments. We knew that before going in, and before any deal was struck. As far as our so-called virtuosity goes, bit of tarnish on the brass turning that blind eye.

[Black Diamond]

Rev thinks we're the bad guys. His cynicism is however QUITE selective, and rotational. One thread he's crying "Constitution" and the next excessive force by people trying to enforce the laws in it.

I think he just likes to see his words in print and Rowdy Roddy Piper's face in his avatar. That man-crush goes back YEARS (actually, He identifies himself with Piper's character in a WWE "C" movie "They Live" where Piper has special glasses that allow him to be the only one to see the "truth" -- a fascist world run by automatons). If you get the chance to see the movie ... DON'T:laugh:.
I'm still embarrassed because I thought the MFer was Marty McFly from back to the future. :laugh:

[michiganFats]

Nope, he isn't always wrong. Just the way he goes about it sometimes. I mentioned the poppies without going in depth.

It's their main cash crop. The President's brother is one of the biggest dust dealers in the country and uses US assets to protect his shipments. We knew that before going in, and before any deal was struck. As far as our so-called virtuosity goes, bit of tarnish on the brass turning that blind eye.

I don't know how you see it but I see it as more than just a blind eye. Our government lied to our soldiers from the very beginning. Men who thought they were defending their country were really just fighting for poppies. I'm not writing this off as just a misunderstanding or a difference of opinion. Our government lied to our soldiers and Rev is right...for the most part...over why we're there.

[Gunny]

I don't know how you see it but I see it as more than just a blind eye. Our government lied to our soldiers from the very beginning. Men who thought they were defending their country were really just fighting for poppies. I'm not writing this off as just a misunderstanding or a difference of opinion. Our government lied to our soldiers and Rev is right...for the most part...over why we're there.I don't think they were "just fighting for poppies". I think the initial intent was to get bin Laden, then the Taliban. To go after the Taliban, there has to be an opposition "democracy/government" in waiting for us to support. Otherwise we have no grounds to enter Afghanistan.

The devil's in the details ... and the politics. Who's going to deal with us? The faction that has the most to gain. So we officially pretend we don't see the dope. That would complicate our selling point. Just another part of politics that annoys the f*ck out of me. We think we have to sell this "we're the good guys" crap to the world.

No we ain't. We wanted revenge. Get it and get out and quit playing this Holier than thou sh*t. Screw with us, we'll f*ck up your day. Screw with us again we'll come back and do it again.

Problem is, the government we cannot sustain itself without the poppy crop.

[michiganFats]

I don't think they were "just fighting for poppies". I think the initial intent was to get bin Laden, then the Taliban. To go after the Taliban, there has to be an opposition "democracy/government" in waiting for us to support. Otherwise we have no grounds to enter Afghanistan.

The devil's in the details ... and the politics. Who's going to deal with us? The faction that has the most to gain. So we officially pretend we don't see the dope. That would complicate our selling point. Just another part of politics that annoys the f*ck out of me. We think we have to sell this "we're the good guys" crap to the world.

No we ain't. We wanted revenge. Get it and get out and quit playing this Holier than thou sh*t. Screw with us, we'll f*ck up your day. Screw with us again we'll come back and do it again.

Problem is, the government we cannot sustain itself without the poppy crop.

I don't think we ever would have gone had the Taliban not burned poppy fields.

[Black Diamond]

I don't think we ever would have gone had the Taliban not burned poppy fields.
I don't see America standing for that. We will just do nothing after this raghead killed 3000 people ?

[michiganFats]

I don't see America standing for that. We will just do nothing after this raghead killed 3000 people ?

We would have bombed the living shit of them for sure but putting men in Afghanistan? Probably not. We're not stupid. Policy makers knew that to beat the Taliban you have to control Pakistan, not Afghanistan.

[Gunny]

I don't think we ever would have gone had the Taliban not burned poppy fields.Interesting theory. I just don't see it. Not the way you do. Bush was a do-gooder and wanted revenge. He had the scared out of their wits sheeple on the left crying for him to do something. I doubt the reality of who or what is the real power over there is.

I DO think that once the reality of the situation sunk in, some reevaluation was in order. For the so-called "greatest power on Earth" we sure do manage to back some real losers for all the wrong reasons. Is the chicanery under the surface? You bet. Some people worship the almighty dollar FIRST.

[pete311]

Doesn't sound much like a 'surge.' Seems according to Tillerson they'll consider a draw a win of sorts.

Either go big or leave, the goal in staying should be to drive the Taliban to extinction.

Outside of Kabul it's all tribal. These tribes are basically Taliban. Is the goal to wipe out half the population?

[Black Diamond]

Outside of Kabul it's all tribal. These tribes are basically Taliban. Is the goal to wipe out half the population?
Sounds good.

[pete311]

Sounds good.

And that is why you're a maniac. First village, men, women and children should be yours to execute first.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10817&stc=1

[aboutime]

After sixteen years of fighting in Afghanistan, and trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, and wounded. NONE OF US are qualified to say what the goal is unless YOU have worn the uniform, and been in command of the fighting forces against the enemy....which, up until January 20th, had no IDENTIFICATION, or NAME.
Today, we have a CIC, with high level, experienced FLAG OFFICERS from each military branch, seeing a difference in the FORMER APPEASEMENT, and ANNOUNCEMENTS of when, where, how, and why America would act from the last administration.

Our president WILL NOT TELL ANYONE, unlike the advertisements of OBAMA, what we will be doing to WARN the enemy, and allow them to PREPARE for whatever may be coming from THE US MILITARY.

As citizens. STOP ASKING SUCH QUESTIONS, and go back to SUPPORTING whatever our Military, and their families....will be doing while ALL OF US..enjoy our freedoms.
IT'S NOT FOR ALL OF US AS CIVILIANS....TO BE TOTALLY INFORMED ABOUT SECRET INFORMATION.

[Gunny]

And that is why you're a maniac. First village, men, women and children should be yours to execute first.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10817&stc=1YOU asked a question. You got an answer. It is the correct answer and isn't the reason Black Diamond is a maniac.

It would solve the problem.

[aboutime]

Outside of Kabul it's all tribal. These tribes are basically Taliban. Is the goal to wipe out half the population?


petey. Tell us? How much experience do you have in the military, and how many times have you been to Afghanistan to fight with our military?

Tell us all the truth. Because you are reading information, does not mean you KNOW what you are talking about.

[Black Diamond]

And that is why you're a maniac. First village, men, women and children should be yours to execute first.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10817&stc=1

How is slaughtering them rebuilding anything? War of annihilation.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

And that is why you're a maniac. First village, men, women and children should be yours to execute first.

If it's a village full of TALIBAN men, women and children, then they're all terrorists and they all kill the same.

Kill 'em all.

[michiganFats]

Outside of Kabul it's all tribal. These tribes are basically Taliban. Is the goal to wipe out half the population?

Where did you get this from?

[michiganFats]

After sixteen years of fighting in Afghanistan, and trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, and wounded. NONE OF US are qualified to say what the goal is unless YOU have worn the uniform, and been in command of the fighting forces against the enemy....which, up until January 20th, had no IDENTIFICATION, or NAME.
Today, we have a CIC, with high level, experienced FLAG OFFICERS from each military branch, seeing a difference in the FORMER APPEASEMENT, and ANNOUNCEMENTS of when, where, how, and why America would act from the last administration.

Our president WILL NOT TELL ANYONE, unlike the advertisements of OBAMA, what we will be doing to WARN the enemy, and allow them to PREPARE for whatever may be coming from THE US MILITARY.

As citizens. STOP ASKING SUCH QUESTIONS, and go back to SUPPORTING whatever our Military, and their families....will be doing while ALL OF US..enjoy our freedoms.
IT'S NOT FOR ALL OF US AS CIVILIANS....TO BE TOTALLY INFORMED ABOUT SECRET INFORMATION.

I think you're giving our government far too much credit.

[michiganFats]

Interesting theory. I just don't see it. Not the way you do. Bush was a do-gooder and wanted revenge. He had the scared out of their wits sheeple on the left crying for him to do something. I doubt the reality of who or what is the real power over there is.

I DO think that once the reality of the situation sunk in, some reevaluation was in order. For the so-called "greatest power on Earth" we sure do manage to back some real losers for all the wrong reasons. Is the chicanery under the surface? You bet. Some people worship the almighty dollar FIRST.

I used to think the way you do but not anymore. Before we attacked Afghanistan there was talk of al-Queda and bin Laden but there was also a lot of talk about the Taliban. The Taliban didn't attack us, al-queda did. Yes, there were training camps in Afghanistan but AQ was also active in Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan and they received funding from some people in Saudi Arabia. We didn't bomb Riyadh or Islamabad or Karachi. We attacked Afghanistan and I think it's because of the poppy fields. I didn't used to believe the stories about the CIA dealing drugs and selling crack but I do now.

[Gunny]

I used to think the way you do but not anymore. Before we attacked Afghanistan there was talk of al-Queda and bin Laden but there was also a lot of talk about the Taliban. The Taliban didn't attack us, al-queda did. Yes, there were training camps in Afghanistan but AQ was also active in Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan and they received funding from some people in Saudi Arabia. We didn't bomb Riyadh or Islamabad or Karachi. We attacked Afghanistan and I think it's because of the poppy fields. I didn't used to believe the stories about the CIA dealing drugs and selling crack but I do now.I *can't* tell you some stories about the CIA. However ...

The Taliban was the Government of Afghanistan. BIG difference between that and just being in some places. Intel knew they were harboring bin Laden. Mostly because THEY said so and refused to give him up. Bin Laden was a war criminal and head of a terrorist organization. We used that as justification.

Everyone and his brother knew Afghanistan was the worlds largest exporter of heroin since the 70s. Unless you lived in a cave. I'm still not making the correlation to that and "Vengeance is Mine, sayeth Bush". The Taliban was not Bush's initial target -- bin Laden was.

As far as the spooks and their little bags of tricks goes, I'm sure if there's a piece of a dirty pie they can get their hands on, they're Johnny on the spot, and REAL quick to use US military personnel as "Secret Mission from God, Your country needs you 'volunteer' "assets".

[michiganFats]

I *can't* tell you some stories about the CIA. However ...

The Taliban was the Government of Afghanistan. BIG difference between that and just being in some places. Intel knew they were harboring bin Laden. Mostly because THEY said so and refused to give him up. Bin Laden was a war criminal and head of a terrorist organization. We used that as justification.

Everyone and his brother knew Afghanistan was the worlds largest exporter of heroin since the 70s. Unless you lived in a cave. I'm still not making the correlation to that and "Vengeance is Mine, sayeth Bush". The Taliban was not Bush's initial target -- bin Laden was.

As far as the spooks and their little bags of tricks goes, I'm sure if there's a piece of a dirty pie they can get their hands on, they're Johnny on the spot, and REAL quick to use US military personnel as "Secret Mission from God, Your country needs you 'volunteer' "assets".

Afghanistan was a large exporter of heroin, until the Taliban burned 90% of the poppy fields, we stopped that from happening and now they're back on top again. We have hindsight to work with now. I don't believe bin Laden was as big a target as we were told. He fled Tora Bora and was killed a few years later in Abbottabad, there's no proof he was ever anywhere other than Pakistan but that's a long time for public enemy Number One to stay alive. Same thing with the Taliban, we drove them out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan where they were protected by the ISI. We knew the ISI was running them but the only thing we did was drive them away from Afghanistan and into a safe haven. Today the Taliban is back in Afghanistan but they they don't control the "agricultural" areas so we let them stay but, call me a cynic, I'm sure if the area they controlled was "agricultural" and they were burning the fields again we would not tolerate their presence there.

I know that not a lot of people agree with me and many don't want to but we've been there now for sixteen years and the only constant goal we've had throughout that time is to protect the poppy fields except we call it Winning Hearts And Minds, not Organized Crime, and it is the only thing we've consistently done effectively. I think sometimes it's time to look at something and admit that it is exactly what it appears to be.

[aboutime]

I think you're giving our government far too much credit.

Not giving anyone in the govt credit. I trust the guys and gals in Uniform, as long as they have the right leadership, and can use everything they have to defend the nation, and protect themselves. POLITICIANS are CROOKS. Too bad we have to elect crooks in order to even pretend..we have a society.

[revelarts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCi-P2j0G5E

[revelarts]

https://i.imgur.com/wcn8bEZ.jpg

[Gunny]

Don't look now, Rev, but I think your audience left town.

[michiganFats]

Don't look now, Rev, but I think your audience left town.

I don't think it did.

There are still some of us who you're wrong :)

[Gunny]

I don't think it did.

There are still some of us who you're wrong :)Nah. I just have a different perspective. Got too much time eating sand and dealing with the assclowns over there not to. We disagree and I let it go. Wasn't worth you and I repeating the same thing 20 times and neither budging.

Besides, I had a hurricane-paranoid family to deal with. I'm the only one that's been through any but they're experts relying on the whacked-out of their minds goofs on TV.

[michiganFats]

Nah. I just have a different perspective. Got too much time eating sand and dealing with the assclowns over there not to. We disagree and I let it go. Wasn't worth you and I repeating the same thing 20 times and neither budging.

Besides, I had a hurricane-paranoid family to deal with. I'm the only one that's been through any but they're experts relying on the whacked-out of their minds goofs on TV.


One problem there Guns, I am the one who had to deal with the CIA liaisons, you didn't. So, can that shit with me. And anyway, I thought you've been retired for awhile...which is it, were you there or you an electrician?

I was there, were you?

[Gunny]

One problem there Guns, I am the one who had to deal with the CIA liaisons, you didn't. So, can that shit with me. And anyway, I thought you've been retired for awhile...which is it, were you there or you an electrician?

I was there, were you? Define "where"? Afghanistan? Nope. Think the spooks are any different in Afghanistan that they are in Africa or most every other country in the Gulf? Seems to me they always smelled the same what with that dirt odor they carried around.

Still not sure about the other question. Last I checked, they don't hand out lifetime enlistments unless you get one the hard way. I'd still be in if they did. I make a lousy civilian. I retired then became an electrician. Not too hard to figure out. I don't see the point.

[michiganFats]

Define "where"? Afghanistan? Nope. Think the spooks are any different in Afghanistan that they are in Africa or most every other country in the Gulf? Seems to me they always smelled the same what with that dirt odor they carried around.

Still not sure about the other question. Last I checked, they don't hand out lifetime enlistments unless you get one the hard way. I'd still be in if they did. I make a lousy civilian. I retired then became an electrician. Not too hard to figure out. I don't see the point.

My point is that when I was at USMB, back in 2007, you'd said you had been retired for 20 years. You couldn't possibly know about Afghanistan so just stop right now.

[Gunny]

My point is that when I was at USMB, back in 2007, you'd said you had been retired for 20 years. You couldn't possibly know about Afghanistan so just stop right now.Must have misread. I'm not THAT old. I said I was IN for 21 years. Shit, I STILL haven't been out 20. So, there's nothing to can.

My name however is NOT Hillary. I don't play this "I was there so know more than you" shit because I ain't putting shit that isn't general knowledge on a unsecure flipping message board.

What you present would be too risky for the biggest fool in the world at the National level; which, it would have to be to work. At the local level, perhaps. Shit happens. We are NOT however in Afghanistan as a nation to protect a poppy crop.

[michiganFats]

Must have misread. I'm not THAT old. I said I was IN for 21 years. Shit, I STILL haven't been out 20. So, there's nothing to can.

My name however is NOT Hillary. I don't play this "I was there so know more than you" shit because I ain't putting shit that isn't general knowledge on a unsecure flipping message board.

What you present would be too risky for the biggest fool in the world at the National level; which, it would have to be to work. At the local level, perhaps. Shit happens. We are NOT however in Afghanistan as a nation to protect a poppy crop.

Did you serve in Afghanistan or did you not?

I did.

Did you?

[Gunny]

Did you serve in Afghanistan or did you not?

I did.

Did you?Ummm ... I think I already said no. If you want to tell me what rocks in Afghanistan taste like, I'm all ears. If you want to try and tell me what being stuck with spooks is like, get in line.

[michiganFats]

Ummm ... I think I already said no. If you want to tell me what rocks in Afghanistan taste like, I'm all ears. If you want to try and tell me what being stuck with spooks is like, get in line.

Them shut your cakehole. You know nothing about what happened there.

I liked you Gunny but you're too much like Jim and Abbey. If you you don't know anything about what you're talking about then shut your mouth.

[pete311]

Them shut your cakehole. You know nothing about what happened there.

I liked you Gunny but you're too much like Jim and Abbey. If you you don't know anything about what you're talking about then shut your mouth.

*getting popcorn*

[michiganFats]

*getting popcorn*

No need to. This won't be blown up on the big screen for you.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

*getting popcorn*

------------ :popcorn:

[jimnyc]

Them shut your cakehole. You know nothing about what happened there.

I liked you Gunny but you're too much like Jim and Abbey. If you you don't know anything about what you're talking about then shut your mouth.

Yawn.

I won't sit back and troll and proclaim to know more than you. I barely know you, I would be naive and look like a dipshit if I wrote that about you. I liked you as well, until the first person disagreed with you, and the true colors started coming out.

[Abbey Marie]

I didn't expect to maligned in a thread in which I hadn't even posted. Kewl.

[Gunny]

Them shut your cakehole. You know nothing about what happened there.

I liked you Gunny but you're too much like Jim and Abbey. If you you don't know anything about what you're talking about then shut your mouth.Easy enough. I'll be Gunny.

Your debate style sucks. Pattern is simple enough for any E-2. "You weren't there so you don't know and I do". And if the person doesn't agree with you, then comes the insults. Nice. Hope you didn't pay money for a course, Captain Obvious.

You're full of shit. You come on here with this conspiracy theory and NOTHING to back it up, then start insulting anyone that disagrees as a follow-up. Hell, you even insult people for no reason that haven't said shit to you.

No links, No references. No nothing but you're wrong. Well, no I'm not. You think that every time we entered the Indian Ocean there wasn't a sitrep? Think there's some special kind of rocks and sand in Afghanistan I haven't had a mouthful of all over the damned world?

And backatcha. I thought you were somewhat intelligent until you started acting like you need to borrow my grandson's pacifier just because someone disagrees with you. Wah. If you had something to tell, you wouldn't be acting like you do and not doing it. Nobody would know.

Draw n your little nubby horns tough guy.