Trump Disbands The Two Business Boards He Set Up

[Kathianne]

Yes, because of Charlottesville remarks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/trump-ceo-strategy-council-is-said-to-be-disbanding-after-exodus


Trump's Business Councils Dissolve After CEOs Turn Against Him

<address class="lede-text-only__byline" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 3px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; font-family: TiemposTextWeb-Regular, Georgia, Cambria, &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, Times, serif; vertical-align: baseline; font-style: normal; color: rgb(118, 118, 118);">By Zachary Tracer
, Sabrina Willmer
, and Hugh Son
</address><time class="article-timestamp" itemprop="datePublished" datetime="2017-08-16T16:52:31.907Z" data-type="updated" data-status="localized" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">August 16, 2017, 9:52 AM GMT-7</time><time class="article-timestamp" itemprop="dateModified" datetime="2017-08-16T19:35:40.330Z" data-type="updated" data-status="localized" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: inherit; font-size: 14px; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">August 16, 2017, 12:35 PM GMT-7

</time>Only a day after President Donald Trump (https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/id/1252249) labeled as “grandstanders” the growing number of CEOs quitting his business council to protest his response to a white-supremacist rally that turned violent, the president abolished the advisory groups rather than put pressure on executives to stay.

“Thank you all!” Trump tweeted (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/terminal/OUSFW3AIH8N7) Wednesday afternoon.

His announcement came within an hour of reports (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-08-16/trump-ceo-strategy-council-is-said-to-be-disbanding-after-exodus)that one of the groups -- a forum of top finance and business executives -- was planning to disband. It appeared to be an effort by Trump to get ahead of the business leaders who were abandoning him a day after he equated neo-Nazis (https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-08-15/trump-defends-waiting-to-condemn-white-supremacists-in-attack)to counter-protesters at a New York City press conference.


It’s a stunning rebuke for the first CEO president, who pitched himself as a savvy businessman who would slash taxes and regulations to unleash growth by U.S. companies. Markets largely ignored the move, however, and the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index was up less than 1 percent as of 3:24 p.m.

At a press conference Tuesday, Trump said he would replace those who quit his council of manufacturing executives. He bid good riddance to one CEO -- Merck & Co.’s Kenneth Frazier -- who was first to resign. He then went on to talk about race relations and the violence in Virginia, placing partial blame on demonstrators protesting a gathering of white supremacists in Charlottesville. A woman was killed during the event after a man rammed a car into a crowd.

The evening after Trump’s comments, members of the strategy and policy forum -- led by Blackstone Group LP’s Stephen Schwarzman (https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/id/1404170) -- began to waver. BlackRock Inc. CEO Larry Fink called some of his firm’s clients and said he planned to resign from the forum, according to a person familiar with the matter. The next morning, he told Schwarzman he was out.
On a conference call late Wednesday morning with members of the strategy forum, the group was polled to ask who would stay. Of the dozen executives on the call, 10 voted to leave, according to another person familiar with the event. The group planned to tell the White House about their decision before making it public, according to a third person.

In a memo sent to BlackRock employees and provided to Bloomberg Wednesday, Fink said that the violence, racism and antisemitism in Virginia had to be criticized without caveats.

...

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes, because of Charlottesville remarks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/trump-ceo-strategy-council-is-said-to-be-disbanding-after-exodus

to be fair, he didn't disband the boards because of his remarks.......he disbanded the boards because lib'rul members of the boards ran away from the lib'rul media uproar over his remarks.......

[Kathianne]

to be fair, he didn't disband the boards because of his remarks.......he disbanded the boards because lib'rul members of the boards ran away from the lib'rul media uproar over his remarks.......

Yep, he disbanded because so many had resigned over his remarks, to be fair.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Yep, he disbanded because so many had resigned over his remarks, to be fair.
Cowards... gutless, spineless cowards... tucking tail and running like scared little mice... afraid of the big bad tarring and feathering machine of the democrat propaganda wing.

Thank God president Trump has a pair of balls. He appears to be the only man in politics that does.

[Kathianne]

Cowards... gutless, spineless cowards... tucking tail and running like scared little mice... afraid of the big bad tarring and feathering machine of the democrat propaganda wing.

Thank God president Trump has a pair of balls. He appears to be the only man in politics that does.

Or they felt that Trump is stoking racist hatred, though he himself is not a racist. Some people of principles do think that's wrong. Thus they are not scared little mice, they stood up against what the President of the United States said, in spite of boycotts that may come from his supporters.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Or they felt that Trump is stoking racist hatred, though he himself is not a racist. Some people of principles do think that's wrong. Thus they are not scared little mice, they stood up against what the President of the United States said, in spite of boycotts that may come from his supporters.
Well we totally disagree there, Kath. I don't believe president Trump stoked anything of the sort. He condemned, over and over, in the strongest terms possible, any sort of racism or hatred so, I don't even know what you're talking about, I don't get it.

The CEO's that quit were cowards, plain and simple, scared little sissies cutting and running afraid of the big bad leftists media machine.

[Kathianne]

Well we totally disagree there, Kath. I don't believe president Trump stoked anything of the sort. He condemned, over and over, in the strongest terms possible, any sort of racism or hatred so, I don't even know what you're talking about, I don't get it.

The CEO's that quit were cowards, plain and simple, scared little sissies cutting and running afraid of the big bad leftists media machine.

We do disagree. I think many are hearing only what they want to hear. So far all I'm hearing is Obama inverted with more waffling.

[pete311]

to be fair, he didn't disband the boards because of his remarks.......he disbanded the boards because lib'rul members of the boards ran away from the lib'rul media uproar over his remarks.......

Everyone's fault but Trumps

[High_Plains_Drifter]

We do disagree. I think many are hearing only what they want to hear. So far all I'm hearing is Obama inverted with more waffling.
Maybe president Trump should have said, "the police acted stupidly."

Everybody appeared to love it when Barry said it.

[Black Diamond]

Maybe president Trump should have said, "the police acted stupidly."

Everybody appeared to love it when Barry said it.
Yeah but he's black.....

[Kathianne]

Maybe president Trump should have said, "the police acted stupidly."

Everybody appeared to love it when Barry said it.

Tje police follow orders, criticism is justified.

[michiganFats]

Maybe president Trump should have said, "the police acted stupidly."

Everybody appeared to love it when Barry said it.

Yes they did and that's when the problem began. Obama never should have made a statement about something as minor as a dispute between a college professor and two campus police officers but he did and now everyone expects the President to make narrow moral pronouncements.

[PostmodernProphet]

Or they felt that Trump is stoking racist hatred, though he himself is not a racist. Some people of principles do think that's wrong.
I will accept that if they are willing to admit that the anti1sta protesters equally provoked hatred......

[Kathianne]

I will accept that if they are willing to admit that the anti1sta protesters equally provoked hatred......

They are violent anarchists that get off on attacking for any excuse and destroying property.

[aboutime]

No matter what Trump says, or does. The same, expected idiots will have something negative to say. It comes from their SELF-HATRED, and makes them hate everybody who doesn't see things their way.
As for the Business people. ALL THEY WORRY ABOUT IS....The Bottom Line.

[Kathianne]

No matter what Trump says, or does. The same, expected idiots will have something negative to say. It comes from their SELF-HATRED, and makes them hate everybody who doesn't see things their way.
As for the Business people. ALL THEY WORRY ABOUT IS....The Bottom Line.


Having known the President of Inland Steel and CEO of Norfolk Railroad and one of the majority owners of Eli Lily Pharma all my life, I can say that those 3 at least cared about more than just the bottom line. Yes, they cared about their businesses, but they were hardly all they cared about. Same with Bill Gates, though I personally don't know him, don't agree with how he approaches things, I hardly think you can say it's only business he cares about. You sound like one of the anarchists.

[michiganFats]

They are violent anarchists that get off on attacking for any excuse and destroying property.

Why do you think they're Anarchists?

[Kathianne]

Why do you think they're Anarchists?

I would assume they're not too bright. Same with communists living in this country. Know too little about how things work.

[aboutime]

Having known the President of Inland Steel and CEO of Norfolk Railroad and one of the majority owners of Eli Lily Pharma all my life, I can say that those 3 at least cared about more than just the bottom line. Yes, they cared about their businesses, but they were hardly all they cared about. Same with Bill Gates, though I personally don't know him, don't agree with how he approaches things, I hardly think you can say it's only business he cares about. You sound like one of the anarchists.

Thanks Kathianne. Do you know how much I appreciate being identified as an Anarchist?

Now that you have literally insulted me. I have less respect for you, merely because I voiced my opinion here. Which tells me. If I may. That you are sounding more like the people who wish to FORBID others from using their 1st amendment rights because YOU DISAGREE?
How proud should I feel, after giving so much of my life, and my family...who also served while I was gone, to be called, or compared to an Anarchist?
This proves to me. You should join rev, and petey with your hatred for TRUTH.

[michiganFats]

I would assume they're not too bright. Same with communists living in this country. Know too little about how things work.

I meant, why do you assume they are anarchists? They don't look like anarchists to me.

[Kathianne]

Thanks Kathianne. Do you know how much I appreciate being identified as an Anarchist?

Now that you have literally insulted me. I have less respect for you, merely because I voiced my opinion here. Which tells me. If I may. That you are sounding more like the people who wish to FORBID others from using their 1st amendment rights because YOU DISAGREE?
How proud should I feel, after giving so much of my life, and my family...who also served while I was gone, to be called, or compared to an Anarchist?
This proves to me. You should join rev, and petey with your hatred for TRUTH.

You didn't voice an opinion, you stated a 'fact' as you 'know it.' It was that businesses and owners are of one mindset, putting the interests of their businesses above all else. The evil capitalists. What would you call that?

If you don't want to be generalized, don't do it yourself.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

You sound like one of the anarchists.
That was below the belt... just sayin'...

[Kathianne]

That was below the belt... just sayin'...

I said, 'sound like' rather than 'are.' Read what he wrote...

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I said, 'sound like' rather than 'are.' Read what he wrote...
I did, but holy cow, Kathy, I think aboutime is an admirable man, and anarchist is the last thing I'd call him.

"Sounds like" insinuates that's what he is.

[Kathianne]

I did, but holy cow, Kathy, I think aboutime is an admirable man, and anarchist is the last thing I'd call him.

I agree with you, which why I didn't call him one. He does need to think about what he's writing though. Way too much hyperbole going on as of late.

In another thread you were speculating when some people were going to say that all the president supporters were klansmen. The type of generalizing you're speculating about is what is going on by multiple sides in the country, about groups they don't like or fear. It's creating narratives.

[aboutime]

I agree with you, which why I didn't call him one. He does need to think about what he's writing though. Way too much hyperbole going on as of late.

In another thread you were speculating when some people were going to say that all the president supporters were klansmen. The type of generalizing you're speculating about is what is going on by multiple sides in the country, about groups they don't like or fear. It's creating narratives.


Kathianne. Look at it this way. Suppose you were standing face, to face with me, and told me I sounded like an Anarchist. What would be any different.
You can call it Hyperbole if you must. But I took it exactly the WAY YOU SAID IT.

Liberals have a way of saying things...they later claim they didn't mean for it to sound. BUT....THEY SAID IT.

You can call it generalizing as much as you want. The left does it all the time, and they get a pass.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

In another thread you were speculating when some people were going to say that all the president supporters were klansmen.
Show me...

I don't need to defend aboutime, he's a big boy, but I will defend anything I say tooth and nail.

[michiganFats]

Suppose you were standing face, to face with me..

I'd probably offer you a mint.:laugh:

[Kathianne]

Show me...

I don't need to defend aboutime, he's a big boy, but I will defend anything I say tooth and nail.

I'll link it when I come across it again.

The politics of the time are getting dangerous, imo, looking at how so many are demonizing those that don't agree with them on something.

"All Trump supporters..." "The Left..." "All business owners..." "Uneducated by public schools..."

Generalization can be useful, but folks need to know that they are not true in all or even most cases, by the nature of generalizing.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. Look at it this way. Suppose you were standing face, to face with me, and told me I sounded like an Anarchist. What would be any different.
You can call it Hyperbole if you must. But I took it exactly the WAY YOU SAID IT.

Liberals have a way of saying things...they later claim they didn't mean for it to sound. BUT....THEY SAID IT.

You can call it generalizing as much as you want. The left does it all the time, and they get a pass.

Not from me they don't. When Trump was running, I was generalizing unfairly too, an emotional response. Many kicked my ass for it, for good reasons. I don't happen to agree with most reasons they see him the way they do, but it's not useful or even helpful to throw all in one basket. Ask Hillary about the deplorable comment she made.

I do try to learn from my mistakes, not keep making the same ones.

[aboutime]

I'll link it when I come across it again.

The politics of the time are getting dangerous, imo, looking at how so many are demonizing those that don't agree with them on something.

"All Trump supporters..." "The Left..." "All business owners..." "Uneducated by public schools..."

Generalization can be useful, but folks need to know that they are not true in all or even most cases, by the nature of generalizing.


Kathianne. How did you telling me I sounded like an Anarchist turn into Generalizing?

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. How did you telling me I sounded like an Anarchist turn into Generalizing?

'Sounding like...'

[aboutime]

'Sounding like...'


You need to use semantics Kathianne. All I really needed was a "Sorry!"

Liberals, Democrats, Politicians, Snowflakes fight with words, vocabulary, semantics, rhetoric. Most are just excuses to demonstrate superior intellect, and prevent showing ignorance. BOTH FAILED.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'll link it when I come across it again.

The politics of the time are getting dangerous, imo, looking at how so many are demonizing those that don't agree with them on something.

"All Trump supporters..." "The Left..." "All business owners..." "Uneducated by public schools..."

Generalization can be useful, but folks need to know that they are not true in all or even most cases, by the nature of generalizing.
I agree... I think the nation is a tinder box right now, but I do believe it's MAINLY due to the CONSTANT BASHING and HYPERVENTILATING of the democrat propaganda machine. They have had blood shooting out their eye balls since Trump was elected.

Like this...

https://image.ibb.co/iKTNnF/0530_kathy_griffin_graphic_donald_trump_head_cut_o ff_tyler_sheilds_03_1200x630.jpg

When has a conservative EVER done anything like that? Had a conservative done that with an obama head, there would have been a NUCLEAR UPROAR form the left. But as it was, they for all intents and purposes ignored it.

Funny that I remember Hitlery in a debate wondering if Trump would "accept" the results if she was elected... aaaah, yeah... I guess that doesn't apply when it comes to the left.

[Kathianne]

You need to use semantics Kathianne. All I really needed was a "Sorry!"

Liberals, Democrats, Politicians, Snowflakes fight with words, vocabulary, semantics, rhetoric. Most are just excuses to demonstrate superior intellect, and prevent showing ignorance. BOTH FAILED.

I apologize, though I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, I was trying to interject a bit of caution. In any case, sorry. As my agreement with my WI buddy, I do respect you for your service and believe you are honorable.

[Kathianne]

I agree... I think the nation is a tinder box right now, but I do believe it's MAINLY due to the CONSTANT BASHING and HYPERVENTILATING of the democrat propaganda machine. They have had blood shooting out their eye balls since Trump was elected.

Funny that I remember Hitlery in a debate wondering it Trump would "accept" the results if she was elected... aaaah, yeah... I guess that doesn't apply when it comes to the left.

For years I wholeheartedly agreed, the left was the major problem. What I've always feared about the right though, appears in large measure to have come to fruition, they have adopted not only the tactics, but the surety of the left.

Where this will all end, I haven't a clue. Antifa, even the DNC aren't on the same wavelength as many 'liberals.' Similarly, the nationalists and populists are not representative of all Trump supporters. A further twist is the GOP no longer seems to be representative of many conservatives. Things are spinning...

[michiganFats]

I apologize, though I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, I was trying to interject a bit of caution. In any case, sorry. As my agreement with my WI buddy, I do respect you for your service and believe you are honorable.

Very diplomatic of you. Diffuse the situation even though you didn't do anything wrong.

[aboutime]

I apologize, though I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, I was trying to interject a bit of caution. In any case, sorry. As my agreement with my WI buddy, I do respect you for your service and believe you are honorable.

Thank you.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I apologize, though I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, I was trying to interject a bit of caution. In any case, sorry. As my agreement with my WI buddy, I do respect you for your service and believe you are honorable.
I think you're one of the few people I have ever met on a message board that was left leaning that was also a rational person, easy to debate and not a rabid, insulting weirdo. I can respect that no matter your political leaning, I have always regarded you as a decent person.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

For years I wholeheartedly agreed, the left was the major problem. What I've always feared about the right though, appears in large measure to have come to fruition, they have adopted not only the tactics, but the surety of the left.

Where this will all end, I haven't a clue. Antifa, even the DNC aren't on the same wavelength as many 'liberals.' Similarly, the nationalists and populists are not representative of all Trump supporters. A further twist is the GOP no longer seems to be representative of many conservatives. Things are spinning...
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Top notch.

[Kathianne]

I think you're one of the few people I have ever met on a message board that was left leaning that was also a rational person, easy to debate and not a rabid, insulting weirdo. I can respect that no matter your political leaning, I have always regarded you as a decent person.

I'm far from left leaning, too many have left rationality. I'm against expanding the federal government, in fact am for unwinding nearly all entitlements including social security, not to even start on establishing more under health care nonsense.

I'm against affirmative action, have been arguing for decades that someone needs to bring a clear cut case to reverse the Bakke case. It will probably be an Asian.

I'm strongly for the Constitution, including repealing how Senators are currently chosen.

I'm not though a reactionary. I'm not for impeaching every president I don't like, no matter which party they are from. I'm not for yelling 'treason' and 'traitor' for decisions I don't agree with. I'm not for calls for civil war, reality tends to follow expectations.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm far from left leaning, too many have left rationality. I'm against expanding the federal government, in fact am for unwinding nearly all entitlements including social security, not to even start on establishing more under health care nonsense.

I'm against affirmative action, have been arguing for decades that someone needs to bring a clear cut case to reverse the Bakke case. It will probably be an Asian.

I'm strongly for the Constitution, including repealing how Senators are currently chosen.

I'm not though a reactionary. I'm not for impeaching every president I don't like, no matter which party they are from. I'm not for yelling 'treason' and 'traitor' for decisions I don't agree with. I'm not for calls for civil war, reality tends to follow expectations.
Awesome... I stand corrected.

Ya know all us conservatives just gritted our teeth and bore it while obama was president. I wish... ya... might as well wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first on this matter, but I would be shocked beyond words if the left would just calm the hell down and let Trump be president. Quit this non stop bashing and hysteria and at LEAST give him credit for the good things he's done. Maybe some people would even start listening to democrats like they were rational people. But then there I go "lumping in all democrats one and all," and I know that's not the case. I have life long democrat friends that voted for obama and admitted to me after he was president that they hated the man and were sorry they voted for him. But I'm talking about old school, blue dog dems... older folks... and they voted for Trump after obama. They couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary. They felt like the democrat party had become something they were not. They had voted dem their entire life, but for entirely different reasons. They were dead set against such foolery as cross dressing men using women's bathrooms and such.

[Kathianne]

Awesome... I stand corrected.

Ya know all us conservatives just gritted our teeth and bore it while obama was president. I wish... ya... might as well wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first on this matter, but I would be shocked beyond words if the left would just calm the hell down and let Trump be president. Quit this non stop bashing and hysteria and at LEAST give him credit for the good things he's done. Maybe some people would even start listening to democrats like they were rational people. But then there I go "lumping in all democrats one and all," and I know that's not the case. I have life long democrat friends that voted for obama and admitted to me after he was president that they hated the man and were sorry they voted for him. But I'm talking about old school, blue dog dems... older folks... and they voted for Trump after obama. They couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hillary. They felt like the democrat party had become something they were not. They had voted dem their entire life, but for entirely different reasons. They were dead set against such foolery as cross dressing men using women's bathrooms and such.

Having a taste of Obama and his supporters in Chicago, I couldn't stand the idea of his being President, though figured he'd win. I was shocked when re-elected, but blame the GOP.

Electing the inverse of Obama with Trump, who I see as turning on his base every bit as much as Obama did his, was a big mistake, imo. It is what it is. There are things I agree with, at least when he says things I agree with, though he changes his mind pretty frequently. Both men were unqualified and both use dog whistles to a portion of their supporters, the portion being the scum. With Obama it was those that agreed with Black Nationalism; with Trump it's the White Nationalists. Notice a theme with inversion?

Both though have a base of support that's wider than the portions, the problem to me though is the exposure of the ideas of the dog whistles infects those that by nature aren't pulled to the extreme. When their 'leader' though is under attack, they adapt. Rather than disavowing the worst, they rationalize. It's how I see it, doesn't mean it holds for all.

[pete311]

Trump just disbanded a third CEO group
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-17/trump-is-said-to-abandon-plan-for-council-on-infrastructure

[michiganFats]

Electing the inverse of Obama with Trump, who I see as turning on his base every bit as much as Obama did his, was a big mistake, imo.

I don't think Trump turned against his base. Conservatives aren't his base. Trump isn't a conservative and the GOP didn't put him in office. I think former Democrats did.

[Kathianne]

I don't think Trump turned against his base. Conservatives aren't his base. Trump isn't a conservative and the GOP didn't put him in office. I think former Democrats did.

I think those he dog whistles to, he holds in contempt. I don't think Obama felt much different about those he 'was involved with' as a community organizer.

In both cases, the leaders have these cores that are not representative of those that elected them, but their 'complaints' appealed to a broader base that both candidates wanted to appeal to.

Cynicism doesn't come close to describing it.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Having a taste of Obama and his supporters in Chicago, I couldn't stand the idea of his being President, though figured he'd win. I was shocked when re-elected, but blame the GOP.

Electing the inverse of Obama with Trump, who I see as turning on his base every bit as much as Obama did his, was a big mistake, imo. It is what it is. There are things I agree with, at least when he says things I agree with, though he changes his mind pretty frequently. Both men were unqualified and both use dog whistles to a portion of their supporters, the portion being the scum. With Obama it was those that agreed with Black Nationalism; with Trump it's the White Nationalists. Notice a theme with inversion?

Both though have a base of support that's wider than the portions, the problem to me though is the exposure of the ideas of the dog whistles infects those that by nature aren't pulled to the extreme. When their 'leader' though is under attack, they adapt. Rather than disavowing the worst, they rationalize. It's how I see it, doesn't mean it holds for all.
Well, I'd have to disagree about president Trump, Kath. I don't think he's turned on is base at all. He still wants to do exactly what he said he wants to do in his campaign. If you can point out something he isn't I'd love to hear it, and I totally disagree about the white nationalists stuff. That is what the democrat propaganda machine has been pushing, and it's total bunk. He's in no uncertain terms, over and over, doing as good as job as anyone humanly possible can, denounced all that. Also, obama was a young, inexperienced nobody from nowhere that really didn't have any experience other than being a community organizer, aka, agitator, and he lied from sun up to sun down in his campaign and as president.

I'm not a white nationalist and I support president Trump emphatically. He is a successful businessman that created a multi billion dollar empire, so there is no real comparison between he and obama. I believe president Trump sincerely loves America, but obama and his, "we're going to fundamentally change America" stuff, I believe he despised America to it's core. If the establishment in Washington wasn't bought and paid for by lobbyist cash and they let him run America like a business, I believe he could turn this nation around like no other president in history.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I don't think Trump turned against his base. Conservatives aren't his base. Trump isn't a conservative and the GOP didn't put him in office. I think former Democrats did.
I agree. I have life long voting dem friends that voted for him. After obama they couldn't bear the thought of Hillary doubling down his stupidity and radical socialist, leftist agenda.

[Kathianne]

Well, I'd have to disagree about president Trump, Kath. I don't think he's turned on is base at all. He still wants to do exactly what he said he wants to do in his campaign. If you can point out something he did I'd love to hear it, and I totally disagree about the white nationalists stuff. That is what the democrat propaganda machine has been pushing, and it's total bunk. He's in no uncertain terms, over and over, doing as good as job as anyone humanly possible can, denounced all that. Also, obama was a young, inexperienced nobody from nowhere that really didn't have any experience other than being a community organizer, aka, agitator, and he lied from sun up to sun down in his campaign.

I'm not a white nationalist and I support president Trump emphatically. He is a successful businessman that created a multi billion dollar empire, so there is no real comparison between he and obama. If the establishment in Washington wasn't bought and paid for by lobbyist cash and they let him run America like a business, I believe he could turn this nation around like no other president in history.


I believe you think all of that. We disagree. I don't think he's incapable of seeing what has happened over the past 7 months, yet he loves causing his own problems and ranting about how nothing is getting done. Today, more of the same. I don't underestimate his ability to understand, thus the only conclusion available is that it's intentional.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I believe you think all of that. We disagree. I don't think he's incapable of seeing what has happened over the past 7 months, yet he loves causing his own problems and ranting about how nothing is getting done. Today, more of the same. I don't underestimate his ability to understand, thus the only conclusion available is that it's intentional.
Well... we do disagree for sure.

What he's doing is not following in the foot steps of all the past republican pandering cowards that came before him, and it's enraged the left that he isn't playing by the rules... the rules being that when the democrat propaganda wing trashes him he's supposed to tuck tail and cower like a whipped dog and capitulate. It appears you're missing the part that him not doing that is what we all love about him.

[Kathianne]

Well... we do disagree for sure.

What he's doing is not following in the foot steps of all the past republican pandering cowards that came before him, and it's enraged the left that he isn't playing by the rules... the rules being that when the democrat propaganda wing trashes him he's supposed to tuck tail and cower like a whipped dog. It appears you're missing the part that that's what we all love about him.

I'm sure that will continue, (it's not ALL obviously. ;) ). He has detractors.

While I highly doubt that he'll change, nor will my opinion of the man, I do hope he does get something besides great court appointments done. I agree that the rescinding of Obama's EOs and the elimination of many regulations are good things. Be nice to see more done through legislation, but unlikely given his war on the GOP. Maybe it'll get better with a Democratic House/Senate? I don't see them playing with him better though.

On a conservative note, I'm very happy to see the 'infrastructure board' blow up. I'm against a trillion dollars being spent, so maybe that's a good thing.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm sure that will continue, (it's not ALL obviously. ;) ). He has detractors.

While I highly doubt that he'll change, nor will my opinion of the man, I do hope he does get something besides great court appointments done. I agree that the rescinding of Obama's EOs and the elimination of many regulations are good things. Be nice to see more done through legislation, but unlikely given his war on the GOP. Maybe it'll get better with a Democratic House/Senate? I don't see them playing with him better though.

On a conservative note, I'm very happy to see the 'infrastructure board' blow up. I'm against a trillion dollars being spent, so maybe that's a good thing.
I'd have to say it's more like "the GOP's war on him."

He's not part of the 'good ole boys club.' How dare him come to Washington and try and upset the establishment cart...

[Kathianne]

I'd have to say it's more like "the GOP's war on him."

He's not part of the 'good ole boys club.' How dare him come to Washington and try and upset the establishment cart...

I don't think that it's the GOP war on him, so yes, we disagree. If they actually were standing up to his worst impulses, I'd agree. They are not.

I think many are seeing qualities in Trump that aren't there. There's a lack of focus on what he wants to accomplish, mostly seems to be against stuff, no coherence, but lots of noise.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I don't think that it's the GOP war on him, so yes, we disagree. If they actually were standing up to his worst impulses, I'd agree. They are not.

I think many are seeing qualities in Trump that aren't there. There's a lack of focus on what he wants to accomplish, mostly seems to be against stuff, no coherence, but lots of noise.
What would you say his "worst impulse" is?

I think you have to be incredibly focused to become a billionaire. The man is a workaholic. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he takes good care of his family and they all love him, I'd say all very good qualities for a man.

[michiganFats]

I'd have to say it's more like "the GOP's war on him."

He's not part of the 'good ole boys club.' How dare him come to Washington and try and upset the establishment cart...

Couldn't agree more.

[Kathianne]

What would you say his "worst impulse" is?

I think you have to be incredibly focused to become a billionaire. The man is a workaholic. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke, he takes good care of his family and they all love him, I'd say all very good qualities for a man.

His worst impulses are playing the dog whistles and lack of focus. He obviously had it in business, no denying that. However, he seems to have always had a peripheral interests in some things political, sure of his vision being the correct one. He's tested getting involved for over 30 years, though ended up just giving money, mostly to Democrats.

Perhaps the reasons he held off entering the political arena was due to his lack of interest in the details? He's a 'big picture guy' that seems to have a problem delegating the details though. Obama too lacked the detail orientation, how'd that turn out? On the other side, there was Carter, who was so detailed that he lost site of the view.

In many ways, and we're only 7 months in, Trump seems to want to just 'blow things' up. He's doing it to people and even positions that his administration has taken. He picked some very talented people, but chooses not to listen or heed their advice. Part of it is almost daily revealed on Twitter, that looked like Kelly was getting a handle on, until today.

His Tuesday comments blew up the nearly good Monday comments he made, with nothing to gain, unless the dog whistle is a good thing?

For someone who repeatedly has put 'loyalty' as one of his highest priorities, one he earned kudos for in business, he's shown to only want a one-way loyalty to those in the administration, to the detriment of his message.

I don't really understand him at all, just wish the country would get some of the 'good deals' he was talking about.

[michiganFats]

His worst impulses are playing the dog whistles and lack of focus. He obviously had it in business, no denying that. However, he seems to have always had a peripheral interests in some things political, sure of his vision being the correct one. He's tested getting involved for over 30 years, though ended up just giving money, mostly to Democrats.

Perhaps the reasons he held off entering the political arena was due to his lack of interest in the details? He's a 'big picture guy' that seems to have a problem delegating the details though. Obama too lacked the detail orientation, how'd that turn out? On the other side, there was Carter, who was so detailed that he lost site of the view.

In many ways, and we're only 7 months in, Trump seems to want to just 'blow things' up. He's doing it to people and even positions that his administration has taken. He picked some very talented people, but chooses not to listen or heed their advice. Part of it is almost daily revealed on Twitter, that looked like Kelly was getting a handle on, until today.

His Tuesday comments blew up the nearly good Monday comments he made, with nothing to gain, unless the dog whistle is a good thing?

For someone who repeatedly has put 'loyalty' as one of his highest priorities, one he earned kudos for in business, he's shown to only want a one-way loyalty to those in the administration, to the detriment of his message.

I don't really understand him at all, just wish the country would get some of the 'good deals' he was talking about.

Are you basing this on coverage and analysis provided by organizations who demonstrably hate him or on something else?

[Kathianne]

Are you basing this on coverage and analysis provided by organizations who demonstrably hate him or on something else?

Basing it on his own tweets and what I've watched play out for over 2 years now.

[michiganFats]

Basing it on his own tweets and what I've watched play out for over 2 years now.

I can't argue with that.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Trump seems to want to just 'blow things' up.
That's EXACTLY what those of us who voted for him expect him to do.

Washington was/is a dysfunctional cess pool of corruption, cronyism, greed and ignoring the American people, and those of us who voted for president Trump want him blow the whole freakin' mess to smithereens.

[Kathianne]

That's EXACTLY what those of us who voted for him expect him to do.

Washington was/is a dysfunctional cess pool of corruption, cronyism, greed and ignoring the American people, and those of us who voted for president Trump want him blow the whole freakin' mess to smithereens.

Ok then, yet people got upset at the mention of anarchy. Weird. Blowing things up, without reasonable alternative is by definition:


a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority."he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"

<tbody>
synonyms:
lawlessness, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, disorder, chaos, mayhem, tumult, turmoil"conditions are dangerously ripe for anarchy"




</tbody>


<tbody>



</tbody>




absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Ok then, yet people got upset at the mention of anarchy. Weird. Blowing things up, without reasonable alternative is by definition:
"Blowing things up"... c'mon, Kath, it's a metaphor.

[Kathianne]

"Blowing things up"... c'mon, Kath, it's a metaphor.

Chaotic government is not off the definition. How about, non-violent, but effective anarchy?

[michiganFats]

Chaotic government is not off the definition. How about, non-violent, but effective anarchy?

How about cancer curing unicorn farts?

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Chaotic government is not off the definition. How about, non-violent, but effective anarchy?
Hmmm... I think that sounds like a bunch of psychobabble... no offense... :rolleyes:

I like to keep things simple.

[Kathianne]

Hmmm... I think that sounds like a bunch of psychobabble... no offense... :rolleyes:

I like to keep things simple.

By metaphors? :laugh:
In any case, what I'm actually addressing was my feeling that the idea of 'blowing things up,' metaphorically only agreed to, is basically an admission that the Constitution has failed and a new sort of government is wanted. It's not just the left that wants this it seems. Neither party as constituted today are 'conservative' they are radical, in my opinion not in positive ways.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

By metaphors? :laugh:
In any case, what I'm actually addressing was my feeling that the idea of 'blowing things up,' metaphorically only agreed to, is basically an admission that the Constitution has failed and a new sort of government is wanted. It's not just the left that wants this it seems. Neither party as constituted today are 'conservative' they are radical, in my opinion not in positive ways.
You used the metaphor FIRST... ;)

I have no idea where you get the idea people want a new constitution because the old one has failed. Where is that coming from?

[Kathianne]

You used the metaphor FIRST... ;)

I have no idea where you get the idea people want a new constitution because the old one has failed. Where is that coming from?

Look at what 'everyone loves about Trump,' it's not the idea of commonweal. It's not about giving of oneself, nor of compromise and the larger good.

Neither is socialism, which is the least that the left is going for. How have all those entitlements worked out for us?

Both extremes are not wishing for the system we have. They want what they want. All of it.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Look at what 'everyone loves about Trump,' it's not the idea of commonweal. It's not about giving of oneself, nor of compromise and the larger good.
That's a good thing, because what you just described is communism, and I guarantee you, that's not what president Trump supporters want.

[Kathianne]

That's a good thing, because what you just described is communism, and I guarantee you, that's not what president Trump supporters want.

Alas, try reading the Federalist Papers or even the Anti-Federalist if that idea strikes a better note. Better than anything on TV, I promise.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Alas, try reading the Federalist Papers or even the Anti-Federalist if that idea strikes a better note. Better than anything on TV, I promise.
I've tried to read the Federalist Papers and couldn't get very far... very dry reading.

I watch TV... I like TV... but I'm real picky about what I watch. I watch NO sitcoms or local ABC, NBC, CBS programs AT ALL. I like the Smithsonian channel. They usually have some good stuff. But I record almost everything so I can play it back later and FF through all the INSULTING and MORONIC commercials. I swear to God they must be trying to appeal to people with an IQ less than 50.

[Kathianne]

I've tried to read the Federalist Papers and couldn't get very far... very dry reading.

I watch TV... I like TV... but I'm real picky about what I watch. I watch NO sitcoms or local ABC, NBC, CBS programs AT ALL. I like the Smithsonian channel. They usually have some good stuff. But I record almost everything so I can play it back later and FF through all the INSULTING and MORONIC commercials. I swear to God they must be trying to appeal to people with an IQ less than 50.


Well what you referred to as 'communist ideas' are found in the writings of both the Papers. Lots of notes and letters penned by the Founders also refer to them. It's context and understanding the ideas behind the ideas.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Well what you referred to as 'communist ideas' are found in the writings of both the Papers. Lots of notes and letters penned by the Founders also refer to them. It's context and understanding the ideas behind the ideas.
I might try and read it again. I'm interested in things about our founding fathers.

[Kathianne]

I might try and read it again. I'm interested in things about our founding fathers.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/fed.asp

http://www.thisnation.com/library/antifederalist/

[Kathianne]

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/fed.asp

http://www.thisnation.com/library/antifederalist/

Very much worth reading and not so dry: Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

[High_Plains_Drifter]

Very much worth reading and not so dry: Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville
Probably won't change my opinion of anything though.

I love this country, and I hate seeing the radical leftist democrat trash tearing it apart. Makes my blood boil actually.

[Kathianne]

Probably won't change my opinion of anything though.

I love this country, and I hate seeing the radical leftist democrat trash tearing it apart. Makes my blood boil actually.

I believe you. How do you feel about the 'Civil Rights Group' as they want to be referred to, marching about blood and soil and basically going full on KKK while claiming not to?

i separate out 'democrats' from the likes of 'protesters' that showed up to knock heads at the rally. I disagree with most democrats on nearly all issues, but don't think they are tearing the country apart, not so with the far left.

My opinion, they both suck. Referring to the left extreme and the right extreme.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I believe you. How do you feel about the 'Civil Rights Group' as they want to be referred to, marching about blood and soil and basically going full on KKK while claiming not to?

i separate out 'democrats' from the likes of 'protesters' that showed up to knock heads at the rally. I disagree with most democrats on nearly all issues, but don't think they are tearing the country apart, not so with the far left.

My opinion, they both suck. Referring to the left extreme and the right extreme.
I agree 100% that the radicals on both sides are worthless garbage.

However, the democrat propaganda machine is only trashing one side and it's perpetuating it all with it's blatant bias and double standard. Americans expect their media to at least be fair, but that has gone out the window long ago... so here we are with no end in sight.

[Kathianne]

I agree 100% that the radicals on both sides are worthless garbage.

However, the democrat propaganda machine is only trashing one side and it's perpetuating it all. Americans expect their media to at least be fair, but that has gone out the window long ago... so here we are with no end in sight.

I don't think anyone on this board or any other has decried the MSM more than myself over the last decade plus. During that time, not only on TV, but in the news world in general, alternatives have arisen, indeed in many cases, are exceeding the results of the MSM. While FOX has been blowing up themselves by becoming a parody of alternatives, the rest are thriving.

It's also why there are so many venues for those looking for like minded, for good or bad.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I don't think anyone on this board or any other has decried the MSM more than myself over the last decade plus. During that time, not only on TV, but in the news world in general, alternatives have arisen, indeed in many cases, are exceeding the results of the MSM. While FOX has been blowing up themselves by becoming a parody of alternatives, the rest are thriving.

It's also why there are so many venues for those looking for like minded, for good or bad.
I agree. I used to turn on fox and friends in the morning to get caught up because I couldn't watch any of the evening shows, but even that has gotten pathetic, so, I no longer do that either. I read online where I can at least chose what I want to read. But when an article starts out just ridiculously trashing president Trump, I quit reading. I know better than to even look at some websites like the huff'n puff, the wash pot, reuters, yahoo, politijoke... sorry for the lame attempt at humor, but they're all just the same Trump bashing garbage over and over... wash, rinse, repeat...

[Kathianne]

I agree. I used to turn on fox and friends in the morning to get caught up because I couldn't watch any of the evening shows, but even that has gotten pathetic, so, I no longer do that either. I read online where I can at least chose what I want to read. But when an article starts out just ridiculously trashing president Trump, I quit reading. I know better than to even look at some websites like the huff'n puff, the wash pot, reuters, yahoo, politijoke... sorry for the lame attempt at humor, but they're all just the same Trump bashing garbage over and over... wash, rinse, repeat...

In generalized terms, I agree with your assessments. We approach it differently, that is all. Like I said earlier, I tend to read all, then go from there. I don't 'buy into' whatever they are trying to sell, they have to prove it to me. Maybe it's more correct to say I have to prove it to myself, at least enough to satisfy myself.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

In generalized terms, I agree with your assessments. We approach it differently, that is all. Like I said earlier, I tend to read all, then go from there. I don't 'buy into' whatever they are trying to sell, they have to prove it to me. Maybe it's more correct to say I have to prove it to myself, at least enough to satisfy myself.
Well, it's good to know that you feel you have the inherent ability to decipher the garbage from the goods. I just don't subject myself to things that I know what they're going to say even before I read it. When the bias, hyperbole and hypocrisy is dripping from the text within the first paragraph, I don't need to waste my time reading it. I have better things to do with my time than that, and I despise reading opinion.

[Kathianne]

Well, it's good to know that you feel you have the inherent ability to decipher the garbage from the goods. I just don't subject myself to things that I know what they're going to say even before I read it. When the bias, hyperbole and hypocrisy is dripping from the text within the first paragraph, I don't need to waste my time reading it. I have better things to do with my time than that, and I despise reading opinion.

There's bias in all, I've seen few attempts to try and control for it.

I do know I learn more from disagreeing than I do from those that agree with my take on something. Constructive disagreement clarifies one's thinking, unless one is too tired. :laugh2:

[High_Plains_Drifter]

There's bias in all, I've seen few attempts to try and control for it.

I do know I learn more from disagreeing than I do from those that agree with my take on something. Constructive disagreement clarifies one's thinking, unless one is too tired. :laugh2:
I hear ya... I'm getting tired myself... I'm wondering what kind of super power you have to be up yet debating.

I read a saying a long time ago and it stuck with me, most don't...

"I never learned anything while I was talking."

[Kathianne]

I hear ya... I'm getting tired myself... I'm wondering what kind of super power you have to be up yet debating.

I read a saying a long time ago and it stuck with me, most don't...

"I never learned anything while I was talking."

I'm two hours behind you, it's going on midnight here. :laugh2:

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I'm two hours behind you, it's going on midnight here. :laugh2:
Yeah it's 2:00 in the morning here... I'm going to hate myself in the morning... but I'd be lying if I said I didn't really enjoy the debate tonight... thank you, Kath... NOW GO THE FUCK TO BED! ... :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Yeah it's 2:00 in the morning here... I'm going to hate myself in the morning... but I'd be lying if I said I didn't really enjoy the debate tonight... thank you, Kath... NOW GO THE FUCK TO BED! ... :laugh:

I am, right now! Have a good one.

[High_Plains_Drifter]

I am, right now! Have a good one.
You're going to hate me... I started a thread about our epic debate...

[PostmodernProphet]

I meant, why do you assume they are anarchists? They don't look like anarchists to me.

lol.....really?.....did you conclude that after watching them set fire to Berkeley?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't think Trump turned against his base. Conservatives aren't his base. Trump isn't a conservative and the GOP didn't put him in office. I think former Democrats did.
sorry.....the GOP nominated him, the GOP elected him......there were neverTrumpers......they haven't gone away.....they are the new heroes of the lib'rul media.......the funny thing is, they think the lib'rul media won't do the same thing to them that they are doing to Trump in the next election cycle....

we have one group of people who want to make America great again........and you have the swamp.......the swamp is not Trump's base.......don't be a swamp lover......

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't think that it's the GOP war on him .

me either.....I think its a bunch of people who were in the GOP that sort of liked the way things were under Obama......the sooner we can get them out of office, the better......

[pete311]

All I know is that Trump and his supporters will never own up to his own shortcomings. It's very similar to NK and the dear leader. Everything wrong has an excuse. Never his fault. He's perfect. It's the mexicans, or the dems, or the RINOs or the media etc etc etc.

[michiganFats]

lol.....really?.....did you conclude that after watching them set fire to Berkeley?.....

Those of them who are capable of clearly expressing a political viewpoint have consistently expressed a progressive viewpoint and their activities are centered around either perceived GOP / right wing targets or large corporations. They're anti-corporation but they're not anarchists, they are partisan thugs.

[pete311]

Meet Trump Idiot ‘Brad.’
https://wonkette.com/621822/meet-trump-idiot-brad-brad-just-got-humilated-on-msnbc-mansplaining-economy

[pete311]

More hits

President’s arts and humanities committee resigns over Trump’s Charlottesville response
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/18/presidents-arts-and-humanities-committee-resigns-over-trumps-charlottesville-response-241781

[michiganFats]

sorry.....the GOP nominated him, the GOP elected him......there were neverTrumpers......they haven't gone away.....they are the new heroes of the lib'rul media.......the funny thing is, they think the lib'rul media won't do the same thing to them that they are doing to Trump in the next election cycle....

we have one group of people who want to make America great again........and you have the swamp.......the swamp is not Trump's base.......don't be a swamp lover......

I said conservatives, not GOP and the GOP didn't have much of a choice, Trump was the clear winner of the primaries.

I think they may use Democrat style super delegates from now on.

[michiganFats]

All I know is that Trump and his supporters will never own up to his own shortcomings. It's very similar to NK and the dear leader. Everything wrong has an excuse. Never his fault. He's perfect. It's the mexicans, or the dems, or the RINOs or the media etc etc etc.

That's not what your problem is, your problem is that some people don't accept your criticism of Trump as valid. I have a few problems with things he has done but I'm not going to criticize him based on whatever pipe dream is currently being embraced by the progressive fantasy land.

[pete311]

That's not what your problem is, your problem is that some people don't accept your criticism of Trump as valid. I have a few problems with things he has done but I'm not going to criticize him based on whatever pipe dream is currently being embraced by the progressive fantasy land.

And that is dangerous, not holding him accountable on the fact that you may actually have a common opinion with a group of people you consider the enemy.

[michiganFats]

And that is dangerous, not holding him accountable on the fact that you may actually have a common opinion with a group of people you consider the enemy.

Who, specifically, are you talking about and what opinions, specifically, are you talking about?

[Abbey Marie]

By metaphors? :laugh:
In any case, what I'm actually addressing was my feeling that the idea of 'blowing things up,' metaphorically only agreed to, is basically an admission that the Constitution has failed and a new sort of government is wanted. It's not just the left that wants this it seems. Neither party as constituted today are 'conservative' they are radical, in my opinion not in positive ways.

I think what most Republicans want, and expect Trump to do, is actually follow the Constitution we already have. It would be so refreshing.

[Kathianne]

I think what most Republicans want, and expect Trump to do, is actually follow the Constitution we already have. It would be so refreshing.

That would be good, it's not how he ran though, nor has attempted to 'govern.'

The most pertinent example was the cabinet member threatening the AK Senator on health care vote. That didn't work out well.

[Abbey Marie]

All I know is that Trump and his supporters will never own up to his own shortcomings. It's very similar to NK and the dear leader. Everything wrong has an excuse. Never his fault. He's perfect. It's the mexicans, or the dems, or the RINOs or the media etc etc etc.

If the media and folks like you stopped attacking Every. Single. Thing. the man says or does, we might be more willing to "own up to his shortcomings".

Have you heard of the Dem state official who put on FB that Trump should be assassinated, btw?

[Abbey Marie]

That would be good, it's not how he ran though, nor has attempted to 'govern.'

The most pertinent example was the cabinet member threatening the AK Senator on health care vote. That didn't work out well.

I would argue that where it ultimately counts, in USSC reviews, he appointed a fine Constitutionalist.

[Kathianne]

If the media and folks like you stopped attacking Every. Single. Thing. the man says or does, we might be more willing to "own up to his shortcomings".

Have you heard of the Dem state official who put on FB that Trump should be assassinated, btw?

I did, that nonsense needs to be stopped. I hope the legislature decides to censure and remove her.

Many Democrats have condemned what she wrote and said she should resign. She refuses.

[pete311]

If the media and folks like you stopped attacking Every. Single. Thing. the man says or does, we might be more willing to "own up to his shortcomings".

Have you heard of the Dem state official who put on FB that Trump should be assassinated, btw?

Maybe he should be less of a disgrace. Yeah the state dem was wrong to say that, but you know what, she's a STATE dem, meaning basically she's a nobody.

[aboutime]

All I know is that Trump and his supporters will never own up to his own shortcomings. It's very similar to NK and the dear leader. Everything wrong has an excuse. Never his fault. He's perfect. It's the mexicans, or the dems, or the RINOs or the media etc etc etc.


petey you kiddie...Trump and we, his supporters have nothing to OWN UP about. The only shortcomings you are trying to speak about are...YOURS, LIBERALS, DEMOCRATS, and KNOWN LIARS who practice being LIARS so much...EVEN YOU ARE CONVINCED...Your lies are always true.
You and other liberals have graduated from the LIBERAL, DNC, SCHOOL OF REPEATING LIES UNTIL THEY BECOME YOUR FACTS.

Otherwise petey. Thanks once again for proving just how full of hate, and lies you are.:clap:

[PostmodernProphet]

Everyone's fault but Trumps

not really.....it's only fatheaded lib'ruls fault......nobody else......

[aboutime]

not really.....it's only fatheaded lib'ruls fault......nobody else......

Finally petey...RIGHT ON! You nailed it. Great!