FULL: Trumps Press Conference speech about events in Charlottesville.

[revelarts]

Full Text
Trumps Press Conference speech about events in Charlottesville.
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/161389...tesville-rally (https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16138906/president-trump-remarks-condemning-violence-on-many-sides-charlottesville-rally)


"Thank you very much. As you know, this was a small press conference, but a very important one. And it was scheduled to talk about the great things that we're doing with the secretary on the veterans administration. And we will talk about that very much so in a little while. But I thought I should put out a comment as to what's going on in Charlottesville. So, again, I want to thank everybody for being here, in particular I want to thank our incredible veterans. And thank you, fellas. Let me shake your hand.

They're great people. Great people. But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Virginia. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama, this has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society. And no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play or be with their parents and have a good time.

I just got off the phone with the governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, and we agree that the hate and the division must stop, and must stop right now. We have to come together as Americans with love for our nation and true affection-- really, I say this so strongly, true affection for each other. Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country, Foxconn and car companies and so many others. They're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker.

We have so many incredible things happening in our country, so when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad. I want to salute the great work of the state and local police in Virginia. Incredible people. Law enforcement, incredible people. And also the National Guard. They've really been working smart and working hard. They've been doing a terrific job. Federal authorities are also providing tremendous support to the governor. He thanked me for that. And we are here to provide whatever other assistance is needed. We are ready, willing and able. Above all else, we must remember this truth: No matter our color, creed, religion or political party, we are all Americans first. We love our country. We love our God.

We love our flag. We're proud of our country. We're proud of who we are, so we want to get the situation straightened out in Charlottesville, and we want to study it. And we want to see what we're doing wrong as a country where things like this can happen. My administration is restoring the sacred bonds of loyalty between this nation and its citizens, but our citizens must also restore the bonds of trust and loyalty between one another. We must love each other, respect each other and cherish our history and our future together. So important. We have to respect each other. Ideally, we have to love each other."

[jimnyc]

He went even further today, but I don't have the text of anything yet...

[revelarts]

For Trump, I think that was actually pretty Good.
personally, I'm weary of all the BS division and racial BSery.
Somehow "Divide and conquer" keeps coming to my mind.
And also the fact that since we don't have a serious enemy abroad it seems that some folks can't stand to live without some drama.
Russia's NOT really a hardcore enemy, ISIS and Islamic terrorism is not a LARGE threat when put in perspective, neither is North Korea.
Identity Politics is stupid and proven wrong and dangerous in WW2 Germany, but do we learn from history?

Some of Trump's words here strike the proper tone IMO.
"Above all else, we must remember this truth: No matter our color, creed, religion or political party, we are all Americans first. We love our country. We love our God....
...We must love each other, respect each other and cherish our history and our future together. So important. We have to respect each other. Ideally, we have to love each other.""
that's a move in the right direction.
If he'd taken it to the next step of reaffirming the HUMANITY and rights of all the above as being equal, that may have taken some wind out of the white supremacist supporters,. Or at least have them making excuses about how he "HAS to SAY that" While they continue to believe that Trump is "one of them".

I'm no Trump Fan but I still WANT him to do things WELL as President... ...because he's the President of the U.S..

the sad thing is, Just as Obama's MANY words of a similar tone (and frankly moreso and better) fell on the right's ear's as INSINCERE because some on the right just "KNOW" Obama's a racist. And they somehow were completely deaf to his repeated praise of police and repeated condemnation of violence, promotion of equal justice and promotion of national unity. In the same way, Trump's detractors are looking for the worse in his words (or lack of words) because they just "KNOW" Trump's a racist, rather than trying to find any bridges to reconcile/diffuse this BSery that the racial and political extremist/alarmist ...and Media Hypers... are promoting.

[gabosaurus]

Trump is really stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.
As President, Trump is under pressure to represent the views of all his constituents. At the same time, he has to remember who his primary base of support is.
No, I am NOT suggesting or implying that Trump is a white supremacist. While I once thought that, further reading has convinced me that he isn't. But he is stuck with the fact that white supremacists and neo-Nazis consider him a friend and ally.
You only need to read the statements made by David Duke today. Most pointedly:

"I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists."
Go to a few white supremacist sites and they are criticizing Trump's response.
"We are trying to achieve Trump's goal to Make America Great Again and he doesn't support us. Trump needs to remember that we are trying to take back our country."
Trump energized the alleged "alt-right" during his campaign and they worked to put him in office. Now he needs to figure out what to do with them.

[michiganFats]

Trump is really stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one.
As President, Trump is under pressure to represent the views of all his constituents. At the same time, he has to remember who his primary base of support is.
No, I am NOT suggesting or implying that Trump is a white supremacist. While I once thought that, further reading has convinced me that he isn't. But he is stuck with the fact that white supremacists and neo-Nazis consider him a friend and ally.
You only need to read the statements made by David Duke today. Most pointedly:

Go to a few white supremacist sites and they are criticizing Trump's response.
"We are trying to achieve Trump's goal to Make America Great Again and he doesn't support us. Trump needs to remember that we are trying to take back our country."
Trump energized the alleged "alt-right" during his campaign and they worked to put him in office. Now he needs to figure out what to do with them.

The problem with what Duke said is that he's implying he speaks for all white people. He doesn't and Trump knows that.

[pete311]

Trump failed in condemning the activity. He knows he needs the racists for 2020.

[michiganFats]

Trump failed in condemning the activity. He knows he needs the racists for 2020.

There was a lot of activity. Which activity do you think he should have condemned?

[pete311]

There was a lot of activity. Which activity do you think he should have condemned?

Hmmmm maybe the terrorist white supremacist that ran someone over.

[darin]

Found via Paul Joseph Watson. This is you Pete.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10776&d=1502719659

[michiganFats]

Hmmmm maybe the terrorist white supremacist that ran someone over.

I agree with that. What about the actions of the governor who endangered lives instead of providing for public safety? We're just going to pretend that didn't happen? How about the ANTIFA goons who showed up with masks and combat gear? Or, how about the many people who are using the existence of a very small, niche belief system as an excuse to justify a much broader attack against the right to assemble and speak freely? The nut in the car is the least of my worries about what's come out of this incident in Charlottesville.

[pete311]

I agree with that. What about the actions of the governor who endangered lives instead of providing for public safety? We're just going to pretend that didn't happen? How about the ANTIFA goons who showed up with masks and combat gear? Or, how about the many people who are using the existence of a very small, niche belief system as an excuse to justify a much broader attack against the right to assemble and speak freely? The nut in the car is the least of my worries about what's come out of this incident in Charlottesville.

This is all strawman and nothing to do with Trump shitting the bed.

[michiganFats]

This is all strawman and nothing to do with Trump shitting the bed.

It has everything to do with how Trump and just about every other politician has handled this situation. A lot of things were done wrong here but all we hear about is racism.

[pete311]

It has everything to do with how Trump and just about every other politician has handled this situation. A lot of things were done wrong here but all we hear about is racism.

The mayor of Charlotteville did it right. It's all about racism.

[Gunny]

The problem with what Duke said is that he's implying he speaks for all white people. He doesn't and Trump knows that.The "rest of the problem" is that Duke isn't smart enough to identify an enemy to take anything back from. His little mind is stuck on blaming blacks and his world view ends there.

The enemy is the institution of systematically destroying the ideals this country is based on, not some skin color, gender or religion. I WILL say in defense of his little mind, he is no more or less tolerant than a WHOLE bunch of stupid little groups with nothing but tailoring this Nation to their minority self-interest and don't care who they have to disenfranchise to get it.

[pete311]

He finally called them out specifically. Good.

Trump calls KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists 'repugnant'
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/trump-condemns-charlottesville-attackers/index.html

[Gunny]

The mayor of Charlotteville did it right. It's all about racism.No, it isn't. It's about stupidity. There are stupid people out there that're going to hate something. Race is the excuse and you are as bad about keeping it alive as anyone.

You can't fix the problem focusing on a symptom rather than the source.

[pete311]

No, it isn't. It's about stupidity. There are stupid people out there that're going to hate something. Race is the excuse and you are as bad about keeping it alive as anyone.

You can't fix the problem focusing on a symptom rather than the source.

How are you to respond to white supremacists when their entire agenda is race based? They are by definition racists. Why are you promoting a PC attitude now?

[Gunny]

How are you to respond to white supremacists when their entire agenda is race based? They are by definition racists. Why are you promoting a PC attitude now?Nothing PC about me. I'm just stating you're the pot calling the kettle black.

I'm a Marine and I think like one. Before I spent 21 years in the Corps, I was raised by military assholes in my family. They're from Alabama.

So where do you want to start? I wouldn't let some PC morons tear down the statue to start with;

Given the order to allow the knuckleheads to tear it down, I would not have issued permits to Klansmen in Virginia of all places to congregate and work themselves into a frenzy;

Given the order to all them to, I would have ensured a safe perimeter and enough security to let there be no doubt in anyone's little civilian mind their every orifice would be invaded at the slightest sign of trouble.

My personal beliefs get put on hold and are compartmentalized while I carry out a mission. And before you say shit, YOUR institution made me what I am. Want to cry about all your Rights? Write your Congressman.

[michiganFats]

How are you to respond to white supremacists when their entire agenda is race based? They are by definition racists. Why are you promoting a PC attitude now?

A response isn't necessary.

[revelarts]

He finally called them out specifically. Good.

Trump calls KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists 'repugnant'
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/trump-condemns-charlottesville-attackers/index.html


FULL TEXT
President Donald Trump's comments delivered Aug. 14, 2017.


Thank you. I’m in Washington today to meet with my economics team to meet about trade policy and major tax cuts and reform. We are renegotiating trade deals and making them good for the American worker, and it's about time. Our economy is now strong, the stock market continues to hit record highs, unemployment is at a 16-year low and businesses are more optimistic than ever before. Companies are moving back to the United States and bringing many thousands of jobs with them. We have already created over 1 million jobs since I took office.

We will be discussing economic issues in greater detail later this afternoon, but based on the events that took place over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia, I would like to provide the nation with an update on the ongoing federal response to the horrific attack and violence that was witnessed by everyone.

I just met with FBI director Christopher Wray, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Department of Justice has opened a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that killed one innocent American, and wounded twenty others. To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence, you will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered.

As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence – it has no place in America. And as I have said many times before, no matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws. We all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. We are a nation founded on the truth that all of us are created equal. We are equal in the eyes of our creator, we are equal under the law and we are equal under our constitution. Those who spread violence in the name of bigotry, strike at the very core of America.
Two days ago, a young American woman Heather Heyer was tragically killed. Her death fills us with grief, and we send her family our thoughts, our prayers and our love. We also mourn the two Virginia state troopers who died in service to their community, their commonwealth and their country.

Troopers Jay Cullen and Berke Bates exemplify the very best of America, and our hearts go out to their family, their friends and every member of American law enforcement. These three fallen Americans embody the goodness and decency of our nation. In times such as these, America has always shown it's true character, responding to hate with love, division with unity and violence with an unwavering resolve for justice. As a candidate, I promise to restore law and order to our country, and our federal law enforcement agencies are following through on that pledge.
We will spare no resource in fighting so that every American child can grow up free from violence and fear. We will defend and protect the sacred rights of all Americans and we will work together so that every citizen in this blessed land is free to follow their dreams in their hearts and to express the love and joy in their souls. Thank you, God bless you, and God bless America. Thank you very much.



moving in the right direction
Better late than never...
I hope he and his people will follow through with these sentiments with Action

[aboutime]

How are you to respond to white supremacists when their entire agenda is race based? They are by definition racists. Why are you promoting a PC attitude now?


Here's how I would respond to hiding White Supremacists petey. I'd stop talking to you.

[revelarts]

Quote:

<tbody>
I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame object on both sides. You had some very bad people in that group. You also had some very fine people on both sides.
Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him. Good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner.

</tbody>


well It was half way decent while it lasted... but now Trump goes down the wrong road again


BTW
Bernie Sanders, after finding out that one of his supporters committed an act of political violence:
Quote:

<tbody>
I have just been informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign. I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms. Real change can only come about through nonviolent action, and anything else runs against our most deeply held American values.

</tbody>
the end.


Nothing about the crimes of the intended Republican victims, or justifications of any motives or associates... being "bad people in that group".

[Black Diamond]

Did the guy who drove the car into the crowd ever work for trump?

[jimnyc]

well It was half way decent while it lasted... but now Trump goes down the wrong road again

He didn't take anything back about his condemnation of either the KKK or white nationalists - but he added in condemnation about the left, and other hatred that was there. What's so wrong about that? Can only ONE group/person be blamed, even though its on dang video/picture that so many others were involved in the violence/hate?

[Black Diamond]

He didn't take anything back about his condemnation of either the KKK or white nationalists - but he added in condemnation about the left, and other hatred that was there. What's so wrong about that? Can only ONE group/person be blamed, even though its on dang video/picture that so many others were involved in the violence/hate?
Also the baseball diamond shooting was done by a leftist......

[jimnyc]

And how is condemning both sides, somehow choosing sides? Sure, and he's a Duke or a racist because he DIDN'T fully take sides, and that's what the issue here is. They lost their minds once Trump pointed out the left. Can't have that!

---

On Wednesday’s broadcast of MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” co-host Joe Scarborough argued that President Trump has also become the president of the white nationalist movement.

Scarborough said, “The United States is — we’ve — sometimes it’s been painful, but we’ve been in a constant, long march towards equality. And yesterday, it’s almost as if the president held up a stop sign and stopped history in its tracks.”

He added, “[N]ot so strange is the fact that you had David Duke and other white nationalists actually praising the president of the United States yesterday for his words. And why not, he has now officially become the president of the white national — not only of America but also of the white nationalist movement. David Duke saying, thank you, Mr. President, for your ‘courage to tell the truth about Charlottesville[.]’ Well, David Duke, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, Klan members, they stand on one side, and apparently, the rest of America and the world stands on the other, Willie. The president has chosen sides, and it is very clear, not only morally — especially morally, but also politically, he has chosen the wrong side.”

Scarborough concluded that lots of Trump’s voters didn’t want “a Duke in the White House, and that’s what they’ve got.”

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/08/16/scarborough-trump-has-become-president-of-the-white-nationalist-movement/

[Black Diamond]

Scarborough is a whore. Funny thing is he is playing into trumps hands. Again.

[Kathianne]

He didn't take anything back about his condemnation of either the KKK or white nationalists - but he added in condemnation about the left, and other hatred that was there. What's so wrong about that? Can only ONE group/person be blamed, even though its on dang video/picture that so many others were involved in the violence/hate?

I think those that are responding with violence, which running 20+ people down certainly is, should be condemned. Here's the problem with the Trump response, as I see it.

This certainly isn't the first 'clash' between the anarchists/minority supremacists on the left with the white supremacists/neo-Nazis on the right. In previous 'clashes' what criticism there was went justifiably to those that created the property damage-which was on the left. What was not really reported was the fisticuffs and other violent actions between the two. The right media did condemned the left's actions, as well as police that set up 'safe spaces' for them 'to blow off steam,' resulting in many thousands of damages.

It's with the death of someone that makes THIS the wrong time to try to create equivalency.

[aboutime]

I think those that are responding with violence, which running 20+ people down certainly is, should be condemned. Here's the problem with the Trump response, as I see it.

This certainly isn't the first 'clash' between the anarchists/minority supremacists on the left with the white supremacists/neo-Nazis on the right. In previous 'clashes' what criticism there was went justifiably to those that created the property damage-which was on the left. What was not really reported was the fisticuffs and other violent actions between the two. The right media did condemned the left's actions, as well as police that set up 'safe spaces' for them 'to blow off steam,' resulting in many thousands of damages.

It's with the death of someone that makes THIS the wrong time to try to create equivalency.


Kathianne. So tell us please? WHEN would be the RIGHT TIME to do it? How many more must die, or be injured before it's safe to EXPOSE THE TRUTH about what is happening in America?
If you listen to the BLM's, Race Baiters, Liberal Haters, Never Trumpers. They demand something should be done NOW. If the President is doing that with his words. WHY IS HE WRONG, and WHEN WOULD YOU PREFER HE TALK ABOUT IT TO AMERICA?

[Kathianne]

Kathianne. So tell us please? WHEN would be the RIGHT TIME to do it? How many more must die, or be injured before it's safe to EXPOSE THE TRUTH about what is happening in America?
If you listen to the BLM's, Race Baiters, Liberal Haters, Never Trumpers. They demand something should be done NOW. If the President is doing that with his words. WHY IS HE WRONG, and WHEN WOULD YOU PREFER HE TALK ABOUT IT TO AMERICA?

How about any of the other times they've 'clashed?' Trump didn't slam both for inappropriate behavior then, just the left. Same here for that matter. The MSM just spoke of 'property damage' and 'those that couldn't be identified'-meaning intafa. The right media claimed that only the left was violent, which you believe if you go with the lying eyes theory.

This was the opening that is going to result in more and more violence by both sides, unless and until law enforcement is ordered to do what they should have been doing for the past few years.

[jimnyc]

I think this article/writer sums it up nearly exactly about how I feel about it. Bottom line, neither side should be forgotten. I think both sides came with hatred, came prepared and ready for a fight. Condemning all of them as a whole, the hatred and supremacy BS, as something our nation won't stand for or tolerate. That in a nutshell should have covered it, IMO. For some reason, reading other forums, comments sections of articles.... seems like folks think that if someone rightly points out the left, Antifa or whomever, that it somehow means they side with the white nationalists or the KKK. Those folks are wrong.

---

Trump got it right – there’s intolerance on many sides

President Trump got it right in his initial response to the mayhem in Charlottesville when he condemned the “egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides.”

His subsequent remarks on Monday, singling out “the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups” was also appropriate. Those people are repulsive; they represent the ugliest strain in our history. The fact that one of them apparently committed an act of domestic terror by driving his car down a crowded street, killing one woman and injuring 19 others, demanded a specific response.

But if we insist on viewing Saturday’s events as an alt-right convulsion, we are refusing to see how it reflects the deep and frightening divisions percolating in our country.

Unlike most of the violent protests of the past few years – where left-wing demonstrators have repeatedly clashed with the police – Charlottesville pitted two extreme and marginal groups of citizens against one another: self-proclaimed anti-fascists versus thuggish haters. The result was as predictable; why law enforcement did so little to prevent the violence remains a mystery.

The white supremacists, most of whom were carrying sticks and shields, were largely to blame for the violence. But it is also clear that many of the “anti-fascists” were itching for yet another fight. That’s been true at least since the presidential campaign, when they engaged in violence at Trump rallies.

One of our country’s great strengths is that even the hatemongers who held a torch-lit rally to oppose the razing of a statue in Charlottesville honoring Robert E. Lee must be allowed to march in peace. Everyone has a right to voice hateful views – including the anti-Semitic slogans these reptiles chanted.

Increasingly, however, swarms of “counter-protestors” are descending on gatherings of citizens they oppose, resulting in violence. That is un-American.

Given this wider context, Trump would have been doing the country a disservice if he singled out one group for blame. He would have been suggesting that it is acceptable to meet those who hold objectionable views with violence. He would have been denying the complex, toxic anger coursing through our body politic.

His initial call for unity, however, was immediately transformed into a cudgel by his opponents – on the left and in his own party – who accused him (once again) of racism because he failed to single out the white supremacists marchers.

Rest here - http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/j-peder-zane/article167418892.html

[revelarts]

the other part that's weird is that It seems to me that here again many on the right had the opportunity CLEARLY separate themselves from Alt-Right, White supremacist and NAZIs but seem to find some kinship and choose to spend more time ATTACKING and Finger pointing at those that condemn and used sticks against Alt-Right- white supremacist and NAZIs!

WHY?

I wonder how many even knew much about Antifa before this, but now ALL of their sins... past and present, major and minor... are brought out in detail. With righteous outrage. AFTER A WHITE SUPREMACIST MURDERED 1 and tried to kill more.
the Right often calls for Muslims and Minorities to CALL OUT and Condemn their own for violence. But here all of the Alt-Right, Confederacy defenders, White supremacist. and NAZIs are self-proclaimed Trump supporters!
But people like Ann Coulter and others can't seem to bear... are strangely uncomfortable... seeing NAZIs et.al called out by name as wrong by default or promoting violence. Much less in a sustained way WITHOUT pointing the finger around the world too.

I want to give Trump credit but it seems he just barely managed to Squeak out that Nazism and white supremacy is ANTI-AMERICAN.
They are... at their core and violent by default.
Is it possible to publicly condemn them TOO MUCH? Especially after the murder and attempted mass murder at their event?

[Kathianne]

I tend to agree more with this:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/16/rnc-chair-white-supremacists-get-lost/


RNC Chair To White Supremacists: Get Lost

ED MORRISSEYPosted at 12:01 pm on August 16, 2017

After yesterday’s press conference by Donald Trump, the RNC has gone into full damage-control mode. “There’s no ‘good’ KKK member, there’s no ‘nice’ neo-Nazi,” RNC chair Ronna Romney McDaniel told ABC’s David Muir on Good Morning America (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rnc-chairwoman-ronna-romney-mcdaniel-white-supremacists-vote/story?id=49246071) earlier today, rebutting Trump’s assertion of “fine people” being on both sides of the Charlottesville rally. While McDaniel also defended Trump’s statement on Monday as a firm denunciation of white-supremacist groups, McDaniel made it explicit with Muir, declaring that Republicans don’t want their vote and will speak out against them:


Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel says there’s no place in her party for white supremacists and neo-Nazis following a weekend of deadly violence at a rally attended by hate groups in Charlottesville, Virginia.

“We don’t want your vote, we don’t support you, we’ll speak out against you,” McDaniel told ABC News’ David Muir in an interview on “Good Morning America” today. …
“The president was saying that people brought violence from both sides,” McDaniel said on “GMA” today. “And violence isn’t OK, but the blame lays squarely at the KKK, the white supremacists, the neo-Nazis who organized this rally, caused violence and are pushing hate across this country.”



When pressed on who gets the blame for the riot, McDaniel firmly applied it to the white supremacists. While some people may have shown up just to protest the removal of historic statues, “the second they saw Nazi flags, they should have turned tail. The second you join a group that has a Nazi flag,” McDaniel continued, “or is joining the KKK, there’s no good there. … This is un-American, what they’re doing.”

Mitch McConnell echoed McDaniel (http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/346784-mcconnell-there-are-no-good-neo-nazis) shortly afterward, as CNN reported that the Senate Majority Leader was displeased with Trump’s remarks:



“We can have no tolerance for an ideology of racial hatred. There are no good neo-Nazis, and those who espouse their views are not supporters of American ideals and freedoms.

We all have a responsibility to stand against hate and violence, wherever it raises its evil head,” the Senate GOP leader said on Wednesday.

He added that “we all have a responsibility to stand against hate and violence, wherever it raises its evil head.”



Indeed. I made a similar argument (http://theweek.com/articles/718444) in my column for The Week:


Perhaps after 240 years, the staggering experiment of American independence is difficult to grasp. We were not the first democracy, nor were we the first republic, or even the first colony to rebel against its mother country. What set us apart was the complete break with the political model of our mother country and the adoption of voluntary compacts as the basis for our governance. America did not break with a constitutional monarchy to simply establish another; instead, we entered into a social compact in which people created the laws by which they would be governed, and that the law would apply equally to all.

Without a doubt, the founders implemented that system imperfectly and some states did cling to a race-based pseudo-feudal system. The U.S. fought a civil war over those failures, and further established equality under the law over the next century. When all people have equality under the law, then their own individual and innate gifts can find the freest expression. Feudal classes evaporate, and a merit-based economy and society can thrive — as it has in the United States, with its dominant economy and culture.

Any philosophy or political movement based on ethnicity or physical attributes runs entirely contrary to the American spirit. “Blood and soil” and its cousins not only ignore science, they ignore history and reality. The best path to unity and liberty remains what makes us exceptional — the pursuit of equality under the law.



The choices made by people to participate in a neo-Nazi rally are defining, as McDaniels emphasizes. McDaniel’s point is best expressed in the anonymously authored “Pig’s Song,” covered here in folk-music style by Jim Croce during his early years as an unknown. The final stanza is the most applicable:

You can tell a man who boozes
By the company he chooses,
And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

[jimnyc]

I certainly never meant to apply any level of blame, or percentage, or who may have started it. My points were that there were multiple groups out there tossing around the hatred, looking for conflicts/fights and many of course coming armed in various ways. These groups found what they were looking for. They should all be pointed out and condemned for their hatred and participation, and have it known that their shit isn't welcome.

This is an aside from the scumbag who murdered the girl. He'll hopefully either get death or a staring at a wall for a long long time.

[jimnyc]

the other part that's weird is that It seems to me that here again many on the right had the opportunity CLEARLY separate themselves from Alt-Right, White supremacist and NAZIs but seem to find some kinship and choose to spend more time ATTACKING and Finger pointing at those that condemn and used sticks against Alt-Right- white supremacist and NAZIs!

WHY?

I wonder how many even knew much about Antifa before this, but now ALL of their sins... past and present, major and minor... are brought out in detail. With righteous outrage. AFTER A WHITE SUPREMACIST MURDERED 1 and tried to kill more.
the Right often calls for Muslims and Minorities to CALL OUT and Condemn their own for violence. But here all of the Alt-Right, Confederacy defenders, White supremacist. and NAZIs are self-proclaimed Trump supporters!
But people like Ann Coulter and others can't seem to bear... are strangely uncomfortable... seeing NAZIs et.al called out by name as wrong by default or promoting violence. Much less in a sustained way WITHOUT pointing the finger around the world too.

I want to give Trump credit but it seems he just barely managed to Squeak out that Nazism and white supremacy is ANTI-AMERICAN.
They are... at their core and violent by default.
Is it possible to publicly condemn them TOO MUCH? Especially after the murder and attempted mass murder at their event?

I don't see a need to separate myself from any groups that I know I'm not a part of, so no comment there necessary. And I believe the KKK and any of these white nationalists are scumbags, those types always have been. And this antifa group seem to be solely about trouble and violence, and of course hatred.

But unless someone speaks of support in some manner for any of those hate groups, then I don't really see it necessary of anyone to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups.

[jimnyc]

I tend to agree more with this:

I agree across the board with all in the article - except for the barely there lack of calling out antifa or other violent/hate folks from the left.

[Kathianne]

I certainly never meant to apply any level of blame, or percentage, or who may have started it. My points were that there were multiple groups out there tossing around the hatred, looking for conflicts/fights and many of course coming armed in various ways. These groups found what they were looking for. They should all be pointed out and condemned for their hatred and participation, and have it known that their shit isn't welcome.

This is an aside from the scumbag who murdered the girl. He'll hopefully either get death or a staring at a wall for a long long time.

If Trump had said something like, "We've had so many instances where the left was the instigator in this type of incident, often at the real expense of communities and the ability of shop owners to open and employ members of the community. We've seen violence and we've seen looting. However the events in Charlottesville went beyond looting and fistfights, though there was real violence between the two groups. These behaviors cannot be tolerated and the police need to become proactive. With that said, Americans do not share anything to do with Nazi values, new or old. We do not agree with, certainly not celebrate racism in any form. The Nationalists and Neo-Nazis stand for something that true Americans never would. While antifada is anti-government, hiding behind masks and claims of anti-facism, they are anarchists, pure and simple, which is why they repeatedly have destroyed small businesses and property.

America First does not mean 'White America First,' it means All Americans first, whatever color or religion. This 'America First' was not that. It was based on evil prejudice and one of the believers got into a car and hurt many, killing a young woman. I condemn his actions and the groups he identified with. None of this is to condone the actions of antifa or other 'counter demonstrators,' they too have been violent and like the groups on the right, want to shut down the American traditions of speech and PEACEFUL assembly."

That may have worked, but there is no equivalency of what happened that day.

[revelarts]

I don't see a need to separate myself from any groups that I know I'm not a part of, so no comment there necessary. And I believe the KKK and any of these white nationalists are scumbags, those types always have been. And this antifa group seem to be solely about trouble and violence, and of course hatred.

But unless someone speaks of support in some manner for any of those hate groups, then I don't really see it necessary of anyone to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups.


SO should people from the right have JOINED the MARCH with nazis and KK members, if they only meant to march for "preserving history"?

And I guess you don't think Muslims or Minorites needs to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups like BLM, the New Black Panthers, or Terrorist or LaRaza etc..
Because you and most others assume the best.
And you feel no need for you, or others, to speak directly to groups that lay some CLAIM to your race, religion, Political views or the same political figures?

[jimnyc]

SO should people from the right have JOINED the MARCH with nazis and KK members, if they only meant to march for "preserving history"?

And I guess you don't think Muslims or Minorites needs to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups like BLM, the New Black Panthers, or Terrorist or LaRaza etc..
Because you and most others assume the best.
And you feel no need for you, or others, to speak directly to groups that lay some CLAIM to your race, religion, Political views or the same political figures?

If someone was there to try and march for what they saw as preserving history, that was their right. But no one should have "joined" with the racist groups unless of course they shared similar views.

I'm not going to, once again, go down a line of things from you, where you paint a picture of "you think or don't think" this or that. I've expressed my opinions very clearly. Not sure why I'm somehow under the line of fire of questioning here.

And Kath, you thank someone for this tripe? Shame.

[Kathianne]

SO should people from the right have JOINED the MARCH with nazis and KK members, if they only meant to march for "preserving history"?

And I guess you don't think Muslims or Minorites needs to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups like BLM, the New Black Panthers, or Terrorist or LaRaza etc..
Because you and most others assume the best.
And you feel no need for you, or others, to speak directly to groups that lay some CLAIM to your race, religion, Political views or the same political figures?


I agree with you, though it sucks that it's necessary. Yes, I do think Blacks that aren't anti-police should make that very clear, as most of what we see and hear regarding BLM are people that do not, in fact they have spoken of violence repeatedly against the police.

I do think Muslims should speak out against the extremists in their religion.

I do think that White Americans need to speak out against those that are racists and really wish that 'privilege' was really what so many think it is. These people want to be 'first class' and everyone else, 'something else.'

I do think the media should be giving voice to those Americans that want the best for all, which is most. It's a few, perhaps a significant number, that want their own little 'world correction,' meaning that their positions are honored, at the expense of all others.

[jimnyc]

That may have worked, but there is no equivalency of what happened that day.

Outside of the scumbag in the car anyway.

The KKK and the term "white nationalist" draw jaws dropping and eyes opening, and rightfully so. They are hateful scumbags. But on that day, outside of what any of these scumbag groups stand for, there really WAS NO difference in what they did. They were all bringing the hate. Many members of both sides came armed.

One may have a more disgusting representation of hate than the other, but on that day they both did the same shit and accomplished the same shit - nothing.

[Kathianne]

If someone was there to try and march for what they saw as preserving history, that was their right. But no one should have "joined" with the racist groups unless of course they shared similar views.

I'm not going to, once again, go down a line of things from you, where you paint a picture of "you think or don't think" this or that. I've expressed my opinions very clearly. Not sure why I'm somehow under the line of fire of questioning here.

And Kath, you thank someone for this tripe? Shame.
I'm pretty sure I was writing while you posted this. I'm not ashamed. I think nearly all here are like yourself and wouldn't identify with the fringe groups. Any defense or excuses of 'the other guys' pretty much is a cop out though.

I don't think Trump identifies with the Nazis and others either, but he certainly isn't speaking loudly enough of their actions, he too wants to use 'the other guys.'

[jimnyc]

I'm pretty sure I was writing while you posted this. I'm not ashamed. I think nearly all here are like yourself and wouldn't identify with the fringe groups. Any defense or excuses of 'the other guys' pretty much is a cop out though.

I don't think Trump identifies with the Nazis and others either, but he certainly isn't speaking loudly enough of their actions, he too wants to use 'the other guys.'

I'm certainly not going to be asked a bunch of questions to prove or show anything when it comes to recent events of any kind. Nor do I like it when folks place words in my mouth and point and say what I do or do not think. To each their own. I'd rather ask questions of folks as opposed to putting things in their mouths and then expecting them to answer to prove it wrong.

[aboutime]

How about any of the other times they've 'clashed?' Trump didn't slam both for inappropriate behavior then, just the left. Same here for that matter. The MSM just spoke of 'property damage' and 'those that couldn't be identified'-meaning intafa. The right media claimed that only the left was violent, which you believe if you go with the lying eyes theory.

This was the opening that is going to result in more and more violence by both sides, unless and until law enforcement is ordered to do what they should have been doing for the past few years.

On most of what you said, I agree, Kathianne. However. During the Obama years of the Justice Department...Looking the other way almost all of the time; those groups...ALL OF THE GROUPS from both sides...Easily, and predictably BROKE THE LAWS, and Obama, Holder, Lynch did nothing because it involved Black Americans. Yet they instantly pounced on any other Group from the right, and left...that didn't have dark skin.
The same way Obama told his administration NOT to use certain words...Like Terrorists, or Islamic Radicals....because Obama had Islamic representatives in his CIRCLE within the W/H.
So, hypocrisy goes both ways. But...if you check. Certain portions of Black America, like BLM, and the Congressional Black Caucus of Congress FORBID, and even NAME any White person who dares to talk about Discrimination, or Hatred as RACISTS.
You can check all of those facts for yourself. So, the easier target is, and will remain the MUCH HATED PRESIDENT...MANY MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM DESPISE.

[Kathianne]

Outside of the scumbag in the car anyway.

The KKK and the term "white nationalist" draw jaws dropping and eyes opening, and rightfully so. They are hateful scumbags. But on that day, outside of what any of these scumbag groups stand for, there really WAS NO difference in what they did. They were all bringing the hate. Many members of both sides came armed.

One may have a more disgusting representation of hate than the other, but on that day they both did the same shit and accomplished the same shit - nothing.

Except for that one guy in the car...

At the root antifa are anarchists. Like communists they've been around forever. Their message isn't resonating with regular people, never has. They need the police to be an end to the destruction, but their message isn't selling.

The White Nationalist and the Black Power type message that underlies BLM do resonate with many, especially the young. For the first we have Trump, for the second we had Obama. Neither actually buy into the nonsense, neither seems to care the hate that is rising though.

I lived through the clashes and remember, I don't want a country like that again.

[Kathianne]

I'm certainly not going to be asked a bunch of questions to prove or show anything when it comes to recent events of any kind. Nor do I like it when folks place words in my mouth and point and say what I do or do not think. To each their own. I'd rather ask questions of folks as opposed to putting things in their mouths and then expecting them to answer to prove it wrong.

I'm pretty sure I didn't put words into your mouth. I went through Rev's questions/statements and answered according to my own feelings/opinions.

[revelarts]

Outside of the scumbag in the car anyway.

The KKK and the term "white nationalist" draw jaws dropping and eyes opening, and rightfully so. They are hateful scumbags. But on that day, outside of what any of these scumbag groups stand for, there really WAS NO difference in what they did. They were all bringing the hate. Many members of both sides came armed.

One may have a more disgusting representation of hate than the other, but on that day they both did the same shit and accomplished the same shit - nothing.

Outside of the one black guy that shot the police in Dallas...

[aboutime]

Except for that one guy in the car...

At the root antifa are anarchists. Like communists they've been around forever. Their message isn't resonating with regular people, never has. They need the police to be an end to the destruction, but their message isn't selling.

The White Nationalist and the Black Power type message that underlies BLM do resonate with many, especially the young. For the first we have Trump, for the second we had Obama. Neither actually buy into the nonsense, neither seems to care the hate that is rising though.

I lived through the clashes and remember, I don't want a country like that again.

Kathianne. I lived through those clashes myself, in person, when a trashcan full of cinderblocks dropped into the passenger seat of the open cab Fire Truck I was driving, after the riots began, following the Death of Dr. King. Truth is Kathianne. Politicians WANT THAT KIND OF COUNTRY AGAIN. And Trump has been the Only honest person to finally CALL A SPADE, A SPADE (pardon the pun).

[revelarts]

If someone was there to try and march for what they saw as preserving history, that was their right. But no one should have "joined" with the racist groups unless of course they shared similar views.

I'm not going to, once again, go down a line of things from you, where you paint a picture of "you think or don't think" this or that. I've expressed my opinions very clearly. Not sure why I'm somehow under the line of fire of questioning here.

And Kath, you thank someone for this tripe? Shame.

Jimmy you've spent the past few days and much of this thread arguing for the basic EQUIVALENCY of one side to another.
but when i put a few questions to you about responding to and treating others with equivalency you call it "tripe"
sorry Jim you don't get to do that and be credible.


nice talking to ya.

[Kathianne]

and jimnyc was right, at least by one pastor in Chicago:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/08/16/jackson-washington-park-protest-presidents-slave-owners/


Pastor Wants Presidents’ Names Removed From Washington, Jackson Parks Over Ties To Slavery

August 16, 2017 10:13 AM




CHICAGO (CBS) — A Chicago pastor has asked the Emanuel administration to remove the names of two presidents who owned slaves from parks on the South Side, saying the city should not honor slave owners in black communities.

A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park.

Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington’s name removed from the park.

“When I see that, I see a person who fought for the liberties, and I see people that fought for the justice and freedom of white America, because at that moment, we were still chattel slavery, and was three-fifths of humans,” he said. “Some people out here ask me, say ‘Well, you know, he taught his slaves to read.’ That’s almost sad; the equivalent of someone who kidnaps you, that you gave them something to eat.

...

[Black Diamond]

SO should people from the right have JOINED the MARCH with nazis and KK members, if they only meant to march for "preserving history"?

And I guess you don't think Muslims or Minorites needs to go out of their way to separate themselves from those groups like BLM, the New Black Panthers, or Terrorist or LaRaza etc..
Because you and most others assume the best.
And you feel no need for you, or others, to speak directly to groups that lay some CLAIM to your race, religion, Political views or the same political figures?
Yeah. Keep removing the monuments, come what may.

[jimnyc]

Outside of the one black guy that shot the police in Dallas...

Did you not see that I wholly condemned the KKK and any white nationalists, like 100x now? No, why would you, you see what you want.

[Black Diamond]

Trump would have been blamed for this if he had said what he was supposed to say in the first place. He would have been blamed for his campaign rhetoric.

[jimnyc]

I'm pretty sure I didn't put words into your mouth. I went through Rev's questions/statements and answered according to my own feelings/opinions.

I didn't say you did. I wasn't speaking about you, but rather why I didn't care for the post you were thanking, and I don't feel the need to answer questions about words that were placed in my mouth.

[jimnyc]

Jimmy you've spent the past few days and much of this thread arguing for the basic EQUIVALENCY of one side to another.
but when i put a few questions to you about responding to and treating others with equivalency you call it "tripe"
sorry Jim you don't get to do that and be credible.


nice talking to ya.

And you revert to AGAIN placing words in folks mouth at any opportunity.

Adios, don't need that anyway.

[Black Diamond]

Did you not see that I wholly condemned the KKK and any white nationalists, like 100x now? No, why would you, you see what you want.
BLM was chanting "Pigs in a blanket. Fry em like bacon" in the weeks leading up to Dallas. Remember when Obama came down hard on the group he endorsed for their hateful rhetoric?


Me neither.

[revelarts]

Did you not see that I wholly condemned the KKK and any white nationalists, like 100x now? No, why would you, you see what you want.

Sure Jim, but here's the thing, it seems to me that once an event/protest ...even one with a few scuffles... turns in a mass murder scene.
folks don't get separate out the murder as an aside. and focus on other issues.
Especially when the groups holding the event by have by default violent ideals and like 300+ years of horrific violence behind them.

objectively speaking murder and attempted mass murder is not an aside for those groups.
Antifa's history of violence isn't even close Jim.

[Black Diamond]

Sure Jim, but here's the thing it seems to me that once an event/protest ...even one with a few scuffles... turns in a mass murder scene.
folks don't get separate out the murder as an aside.
Especially when the groups holding the event by have by default violent ideals and like 300+ years of horrific violence behind them.

objectively speaking murder and attempted mass murder is not an aside for those groups.
Antifa's history of violence isn't even close Jim.
Pigs in a blanket. Fry em like bacon.

[Black Diamond]

I know. I know. Dead cops are just bumps in the road for BLM and their goals.

[jimnyc]

Sure Jim, but here's the thing, it seems to me that once an event/protest ...even one with a few scuffles... turns in a mass murder scene.
folks don't get separate out the murder as an aside. and focus on other issues.
Especially when the groups holding the event by have by default violent ideals and like 300+ years of horrific violence behind them.

objectively speaking murder and attempted mass murder is not an aside for those groups.
Antifa's history of violence isn't even close Jim.

I said aside, as in 2 different things, which is EXACTLY what they were. Aside, as in nothing taken away from the other.

What that guy did in his car, isn't the same thing that happened by the park. You can't take one person and one action and describe the entire day by that.

Why do you guys want to continue with the "not even close" crap, or similar, as if it's a contest. As already stated, regardless of which group may have a longer history, or worse agenda stances - they all came bringing hatred, and weapons, and armor, at least one homemade flamethrower... Hate and violence. This was brought forward by all of the groups involved. This doesn't mean JACK SHIT about percentages or laying more blame or laying claim to which group is worse than the other - these groups all brought hatred to this event, they all got violent with one another.

And I don't give a flying monkey fuck about history as it is - I'm speaking about the ACTIONS that took place over the weekend. Harsh feelings about the past is a pretty shitty reason to judge current actions.

[michiganFats]

I tend to agree more with this:



I have a little bit of a problem with what the Republicans have been saying about this. Ronna Romney is telling people not to bother participating in elections or politics in general and then McConnell follows that up with talk of American ideals and freedoms. I thought that one of our ideals is that everyone gets a seat at the political table, even people with views many of us may not want to hear.

[jimnyc]

I know. I know. Dead cops are just bumps in the road for BLM and their goals.

And I believe it all started with "Burn this bitch down" :rolleyes:

[Kathianne]

I have a little bit of a problem with what the Republicans have been saying about this. Ronna Romney is telling people not to bother participating in elections or politics in general and then McConnell follows that up with talk of American ideals and freedoms. I thought that one of our ideals is that everyone gets a seat at the political table, even people with views many of us may not want to hear.

I have to say as someone who left the GOP because of what I saw as a influx of folks I just couldn't go along with, it's good to hear that some discernment is being advocated. It's their right under 'free speech' to say what they wish. It's your right to vote for whom you like, be in whatever party you wish, or if I remember correctly, like me you've decided to be independent.

Whatever the GOP leaders say, alt-right members can still sign up to be good members of the party.

[revelarts]

BLM was chanting "Pigs in a blanket. Fry em like bacon" in the weeks leading up to Dallas. Remember when Obama came down hard on the group he endorsed for their hateful rhetoric?
Me neither.
seriously?
-you can lead a horse to water
-none so blind as those that will not see
-

or maybe you just missed it... them


...“In a movement like Black Lives Matter, there’s always going to be some folks who say things that are stupid, or imprudent, or overgeneralized, or harsh,” Obama told reporters at a Sunday press conference, just three days after an African-American cop-hating racist murdered five police officers who were guarding a Black Lives Matter protest in Dallas.
“Everybody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement … I want all of them to maintain a respectful, thoughtful tone — because, as a practical matter, that’s what’s going to get change done,” Obama said...
...."Any violence directed at police officers is a reprehensible crime and needs to be prosecuted. But even rhetorically, if we paint police in broad brush, without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if our rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause."...


...President Barack Obama today scolded those responsible for the riots in Ferguson on Monday night, saying, “Burning buildings, torching cars, destroying property, putting people at risk – that’s destructive, and there’s no excuse for it. Those are criminal acts, and people should be prosecuted for it.” Speaking to an audience in Chicago, Mr Obama added, “Nothing of significance, nothing of benefit results from destructive acts.”...
..Of the rioters in Ferguson, he added: “I have no sympathy at all for destroying your own communities.”
Meanwhile, Mr Holder told reporters that he was “disappointed” by the scenes emerging from St Louis. “Acts of violence threaten to drown out those that have legitimate voices,” he said. “The way we’ve made progress in this country is we’ve seen peaceful, nonviolent demonstrations.”...


Mr Obama harshly criticised "a handful of people" for "senseless violence and destruction".
"That is not a protest, that is not a statement, they are stealing."

...President Barack Obama on Tuesday condemned the "criminals and thugs who tore up" the city of Baltimore.."There's no excuse for the kind of violence that we saw yesterday. It is counterproductive," Obama said at a press conference from the White House. "When individuals get crowbars and start prying open doors to loot, they're not protesting. They're not making a statement. They're stealing. When they burn down a building, they're committing arson. And they're destroying and undermining businesses and opportunities in their own communities. That robs jobs and opportunity from people in that area."...

etc etc etc

[revelarts]

...
And I don't give a flying monkey fuck about history as it is - I'm speaking about the ACTIONS that took place over the weekend. Harsh feelings about the past is a pretty shitty reason to judge current actions.
so when will the Antifa acts of this weekend or last year be History enough for you not to give a ...------... about what they did?

look the problem with your bombastic dismissal of the LONG history of the kkk, Nazis etc is that that history a predictor of the CURRENT and future actions Jim. these present groups have ADOPTED those historical ideas and tactics for application TODAY.

And Agian I have to bring up another equivalency,
People here OFTEN bring up the LONG history of ISLAM.
Do you " give a flying monkey fuck about" that "history" Jim?
or ONLY look back at what they did this weekend out of historical context?
And setting aside... any murders as separate from other events going on at the murder sites.

[michiganFats]

I have to say as someone who left the GOP because of what I saw as a influx of folks I just couldn't go along with, it's good to hear that some discernment is being advocated. It's their right under 'free speech' to say what they wish. It's your right to vote for whom you like, be in whatever party you wish, or if I remember correctly, like me you've decided to be independent.

Whatever the GOP leaders say, alt-right members can still sign up to be good members of the party.

I didn't know anything about White nationalists or White Separatists or the Alt-Right until this happened but I've been doing a lot of reading about them for the last few days. The GOP just did exactly what those people have been complaining about; out of all the blame to go around they singled out the White people and said they don't fit in with American ideals and freedoms. Yes, obviously they can still go vote for anyone they want to vote for but they were specifically called out.

We just had a Democratic Socialist run for President; no one denounced him. Democratic Socialism doesn't fit in with American ideals and freedoms but a lot of people were feeling the Bern and the GOP didn't denounce him for being un American even though he is. I voted for Obama in 2012 ( I thought Romney would have been even worse) but some of his appointees and advisers were just as guilty of holding a race or other minority based political worldview but the GOP didn't denounce them as being un American so if the GOP's real problem isn't holding the race based viewpoint then what is it?

I know the GOP doesn't really have an anti-White viewpoint and they said what they said for purely short-term political reasons but the point remains they did just apply an uneven standard based on race and when it comes to American ideals and freedoms maybe they should look in the mirror and back off of that and just focus on putting people in jail who deserve it from now on. Like people who wear masks and wield weapons at protests. That's not protesting, that's a felony in many states.

I think Trump is the only one who got this right.

[Kathianne]

I didn't know anything about White nationalists or White Separatists or the Alt-Right until this happened but I've been doing a lot of reading about them for the last few days. The GOP just did exactly what those people have been complaining about; out of all the blame to go around they singled out the White people and said they don't fit in with American ideals and freedoms. Yes, obviously they can still go vote for anyone they want to vote for but they were specifically called out.

We just had a Democratic Socialist run for President; no one denounced him. Democratic Socialism doesn't fit in with American ideals and freedoms but a lot of people were feeling the Bern and the GOP didn't denounce him for being un American even though he is. I voted for Obama in 2012 ( I thought Romney would have been even worse) but some of his appointees and advisers were just as guilty of holding a race or other minority based political worldview but the GOP didn't denounce them as being un American so if the GOP's real problem isn't holding the race based viewpoint then what is it?

I know the GOP doesn't really have an anti-White viewpoint and they said what they said for purely short-term political reasons but the point remains they did just apply an uneven standard and when it comes to American ideals and freedoms maybe they should look in the mirror and back off of that and just focus on putting people in jail who deserve it from now on. Like people who wear masks and wield weapons at protests. That's not protesting, that's a felony in many states.

I didn't vote for Sanders, doubt you did either. Yes, many on the far left, especially the young, (again, the most easily influenced because of their ignorance), did vote for him. Believe me, if Bernie throws on a mask and starts breaking heads or store fronts, I'll be calling for his arrest.

Again, since Ferguson we've seen many, many, many posts about the anarchists and BLM, not much about those that did show up to fight with them, especially at speeches and such on university campuses and particularly at Trump rallies during the campaign. The criticism was directed, mostly correctly, to the violence of the left. So too regarding the right media, focus on the violence of the left. MSM, as I've said repeatedly the past couple days, was on the costs of destruction of property. They made no attempt to call out the leftist violence or even in a meaningful way discuss the actions of anarchists.

All that is worthy of discussion, here and on the really needed larger conversation meeting place. None of which changes the Friday hate spewed, leading up to the worse outcome on Saturday.

Trump didn't cause any of it, but once again his statements have caused the narrative to change to him and his message. It's Trump being Trump.

[michiganFats]

Trump didn't cause any of it, but once again his statements have caused the narrative to change to him and his message. It's Trump being Trump.

Good, his message is correct. I especially like what he said about prosecution stemming from this, on both sides. Tossing felons in jail is a good thing.

You're right, I wasn't feeling the Bern. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

Good, his message is correct. I especially like what he said about prosecution stemming from this, on both sides. Tossing felons in jail is a good thing.

You're right, I wasn't feeling the Bern. :laugh:

I don't agree with Trump on the equivalency, but I'm all for prosecuting violent people. Yes, on that count there should be plenty of arrests on both sides. There should also be outrage at how the police handled this, if it's as I suspect, they were told to 'stand down' from the politicians to the chief/superintendent/commissioner, that should be made very clear.

The stand down orders need to stop, if they'd never been allowed, odds are that girl would still be alive and the 19 or so people wouldn't have been in the hospital.

[Black Diamond]

seriously?
-you can lead a horse to water
-none so blind as those that will not see
-

or maybe you just missed it... them







etc etc etc
You call that condemning them and coming down hard on them. That's funny stuff.

[michiganFats]

seriously?
-you can lead a horse to water
-none so blind as those that will not see
-

or maybe you just missed it... them







etc etc etc

From your post:


In a movement like Black Lives Matter, there’s always going to be some folks who say things that are stupid, or imprudent, or overgeneralized, or harsh,” Obama told reporters at a Sunday press conference, just three days after an African-American cop-hating racist murdered five police officers who were guarding a Black Lives Matter protest in Dallas.
“Everybody involved in the Black Lives Matter movement … I want all of them to maintain a respectful, thoughtful tone — because, as a practical matter, that’s what’s going to get change done,” Obama said...
...."Any violence directed at police officers is a reprehensible crime and needs to be prosecuted.

Enhance...


But even rhetorically, if we paint police in broad brush, without recognizing that the vast majority of police officers are doing a really good job and are trying to protect people and do so fairly and without racial bias, if our rhetoric does not recognize that, then we’re going to lose allies in the reform cause."...

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Sure Jim, but here's the thing, it seems to me that once an event/protest ...even one with a few scuffles... turns in a mass murder scene.
folks don't get separate out the murder as an aside. and focus on other issues.
Especially when the groups holding the event by have by default violent ideals and like 300+ years of horrific violence behind them.

objectively speaking murder and attempted mass murder is not an aside for those groups.
Antifa's history of violence isn't even close Jim.




Antifa's history of violence isn't even close Jim

^^^^^ Rev. what the hell would that have to do with the price of eggs in China???

Both sides engaging in hatred and thinking they have the right to take violent actions is in no way justified...
And certainly not by an erroneous comparison of which side has the worst record , when both sides are radical hate mongering pieces of shit...

KKK AND Antifa are both extremely bad groups...

The primary thing we should be concerned with is the leftists/dems/libs that are now engaging in this destroy history and vilify those that oppose their insane ideology and tendency to seek violence and oppression first themselves ..
Conservatives did not do this crap when their socialist lying piece of shit prez trashed this nation for 8 long years!!!

Would help if you opened the other eye amigo, IMHO.-TYR

[aboutime]

How disgusting can one group of ignorant, dummies get before they actually admit...THEY ARE EITHER deaf, or Perfectly Stupid?

The President can make any statement he wants, and the Dumbest among us keep insisting they are Offended, and the President should be impeached.

If this stupidity, ignorance, and hatred is permitted to grow unabated. The people making the most noise about their hatred WILL DESTROY THIS NATION.

And even then. They will blame Trump, or Me, and people like me for telling the truth.

[michiganFats]

The people making the most noise about their hatred WILL DESTROY THIS NATION.



Many of them don't understand this but that is the point behind all of this.

[Kathianne]

Right. It is so simple, listen to Trump and trust all that AT and MF say or be responsible for the end of the world. No consideration that perhaps you've been had? Nah!

[michiganFats]

Right. It is so simple, listen to Trump and trust all that AT and MF say or be responsible for the end of the world. No consideration that perhaps you've been had? Nah!

I think you've been had. I don't believe you see the world for what it really is.

You're starting to sound like AT by the way. Didn't you earlier complain about him not being flexible in his opinion? You do the same thing. So do I. But I guess it's only the wrong thing to do when your name isn't Kathianne?

[Kathianne]

I think you've been had. I don't believe you see the world for what it really is.

You're starting to sound like AT by the way. Didn't you earlier complain about him not being flexible in his opinion? You do the same thing. So do I. But I guess it's only the wrong thing to do when your name isn't Kathianne?

I never said I was consistent, I do get pissed off with what I see as nonsense. I usually try to ignore, I'll try to be more diligent in my responses. BTW, like I told AT, I don't get pissed off that easily. No harm, no foul. Good call out.

[michiganFats]

I never said I was consistent, I do get pissed off with what I see as nonsense. I usually try to ignore, I'll try to be more diligent in my responses. BTW, like I told AT, I don't get pissed off that easily. No harm, no foul. Good call out.

lol, we all do it. No harm, no foul indeed.

[aboutime]

Right. It is so simple, listen to Trump and trust all that AT and MF say or be responsible for the end of the world. No consideration that perhaps you've been had? Nah!


Kathianne. NOBODY here made you listen, or read what I, and MF had to say. Funny how things seem to work that way sometimes.

[Black Diamond]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10801&stc=1