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jimnyc
05-31-2017, 04:22 PM
revelarts

This ought to be a good thread!

This is really a tough call, and it's hard to have a blanket call that would cover every instance of every investigation and/or arrest. BUT, I have a VERY good feeling I know what Rev will say, and I tend to agree - that if they have solid evidence, then get a warrant.... but what if they DO have a warrant, and then the person STILL refuses to give up the code? And, IMO, they need to have judges available for such instances, where they can get said warrant ASAP if needed, so they can do so on the spot. But again, it may be useless if someone has good encryption and still refuses. :)

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He didn’t give police his iPhone pass code, so he got 180 days in jail

A Hollywood man must serve 180 days in jail for refusing to give up his iPhone password to police, a Broward judge ruled Tuesday — the latest salvo in intensifying legal battles over law-enforcement access to smart phones.

Christopher Wheeler, 41, was taken into custody in a Broward Circuit Court, insisting he had already provided the pass code to police investigating him for child abuse, although the number did not work.

“I swear, under oath, I’ve given them the password,” a distraught Wheeler, his hands handcuffed behind his back, told Circuit Judge Michael Rothschild, who earlier in May found the man guilty of contempt of court.

As Wheeler was jailed Tuesday, the same issue was unfolding in Miami-Dade for a man accused of extorting a social-media celebrity over stolen sex videos.

That man, Wesley Victor, and his girlfriend had been ordered by a judge to produce a pass code to phones suspected of containing text messages showing their collusion in the extortion plot.

Victor claimed he didn’t remember the number. He prevailed.

On Tuesday, Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Charles Johnson ruled that there was no way to prove that Victor actually remembered his pass code, more than 10 months after his initial arrest. Johnson declined to hold the man in contempt of court.

“The judge made the right call,” said his lawyer, Zeljka Bozanic. “My client testified he did not remember. It’s been almost a year. Many people, including myself, can’t remember passwords from a year ago.”

Victor and his girlfriend, reality TV star Hencha Voigt, are accused of threatening to release sex videos stolen from Miami social-media celebrity YesJulz in exchange for $18,000. Voigt is also facing a contempt of court charge — she provided her pass code, but it did not work.

She’ll appear in court next week to explain why.

Both cases underscore the friction over courts ordering defendants to give up their pass codes, which critics say violates a citizen’s Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Judges have struggled to determine how much access law enforcement can get to smartphones, tablets and hard drives — particularly ones using increasingly sophisticated encryption technology.

Rest here - http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article153373524.html

revelarts
05-31-2017, 06:43 PM
....which critics say violates a citizen’s Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Judges have struggled to determine how much access law enforcement can get to smartphones, tablets and hard drives — particularly ones using increasingly sophisticated encryption technology.

Rest here - http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article153373524.html

"...Which Critics Say..."?
more like what the constitution says.

To me it's seems like it's not much of a question.

ANALOGY:
If there was a suspected criminal captured that had a hidden cave in the mountians that everyone "knew" had file cabinets full of evidence against him.
And he was the only one who knew where the cave was.
The criminal is under ZERO obligation to tell anyone the location of the cave or the content of files.
"you have the right to remain silent"
the information is safe in the cave and the cave location is safe in his head.

the creation of digital hiding places makes it harder for law enforcement. Harder ... but not impossible.
Here's another question though. BEFORE cell phones how would these crooks have communicated?
they would be using Phones that WERE'NT tapped. with no records. unless the victems taped them. They probably wouldn't have written anything down. So the cops would be in the SAME boat ANYWAY. with no record of the plans or communications.

It's not like the cops and prosecutors are having to do anything NEW, they just can't use the easiest methods becasue of the pesky constitution.... so far.

IF the courts decide that it's against the law to keep your password then what should the punishment be?
10 days in jail, 180, 10 years, torture (if it will save 1 life!)?
But how can they Justify ANY punishment, Especially since the info they want on the device, is what they want to used to PROVE that you've committed a crime in 1st place?
It's crazy totalitarian BS.


BUt with the Above as question on the table instead of an CLEAR "NO it's unconstitutional and a violation of human rights".
ADD this little technological advance to the mix.
Mind-Reading Computer Instantly Decodes People's Thoughts
http://www.livescience.com/53535-computer-reads-thoughts-instantaneously.html

Facebook is working on tech to let you type with your brain and 'hear with your skin'
http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-confirms-working-on-mind-reading-technology-2017-4

When will mind-reading technology be commercially available?
https://www.em360tech.com/tech-news/microsoft-working-mind-reading-technology/

SCIENTISTS DEVELOP A BRAIN DECODER THAT CAN HEAR YOUR INNER THOUGHTS
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/scientists-develop-brain-decoder-can-hear-inner-thoughts/

10 Mind-Reading Tech Projects That Might Freak You Out
http://www.pcmag.com/feature/323668/10-mind-reading-tech-projects-that-might-freak-you-out/3

What Police agency, prosecutor or victim is not going to want to force people into chairs and fire up the mind reader program?

Got RIGHTS?

jimnyc
05-31-2017, 06:54 PM
I don't use any encryption for my phone. Hell, it's not even locked at all. But I still don't want folks going through my activities, not without good reason. But what is good reason?

IF there really is that good reason, I would hope there would be someone available to quickly hear the facts and determine if a warrant can be issued or not. Then they can proceed from there. But we both know it's never that easy.

gabosaurus
05-31-2017, 10:12 PM
My phone is not locked because I tend to forget passwords very easily. My husband, on the other hand, has multiple password layers.
Anyone who tries to decipher my daughter's texts is begging for brain damage. Since teens communicate in their own language. :laugh:

Abbey Marie
06-01-2017, 09:11 AM
Sorry but your cave analogy is a bit off, Rev. To be analogous, the police would have to know exactly where the cave is, be at the entrance to the cave, but be unable to get in without some sort of combination or key that only the child molester knows. They are not asking the child molester to tell them where his phone is. They already have it in their possession.

Gunny
06-01-2017, 09:23 AM
My phone's not locked because I could give a f*ck less about it. I use it as a phone. Talk and text. The basic premise of ComSec .. don't say or write (or transmit) anything without assuming automatically someone can compromise your security. In that vein, people are stupid with their cells.

You know if you turn your GPS locator off the police (with a warrant) can get the service provider to turn it back on without your knowledge? That means they can track you to the nearest cell tower you pinged on.

The judge is grandstanding. If he can't get a cell decrypted in a year, he's not trying.

I agree with rev )for once) in principle. What did they do when we still used rotary dial phones? Oh. don't mind that tin can and string attached to your phone that leads to the FBI van outside on your side street.:slap::rolleyes: We step all over the 5th Amendment every day and no one cares because it's "not me". Sucks to be you. The myriad caveats to all our laws that deprive us of our Constitutional Rights on a daily basis is mind-boggling.

And you can ask Jimbob about me and remembering my passwords. :laugh: