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Guernicaa
08-06-2007, 05:15 PM
Candidates Debate--Gays Win
Chris Rovzar

Let's face it -- August 9's presidential debate on gay issues is not important because of what the candidates are going to say. The three Democratic frontrunners have virtually the same positions on the issues at hand. Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, and Barack Obama all support domestic partnerships, repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell, but stop short of endorsing marriage equality.

Rather, what's important about the Human Rights Campaign-sponsored debate is its mere occurrence. If the Dems are confident enough to tackle gay issues head-on for a full hour, it means they're no longer worried that the Republicans will throw it back in their faces. They're not afraid, and more importantly, they're betting voters aren't afraid either.

During the 2004 presidential elections George Bush was able to make a lot of headway by scaring moderate voters with the twin specters of activist judges and the impending doom of traditional marriage. The Massachusetts Supreme Court gay marriage ruling had just been handed down, and Bush, eyeing re-election, called it "arbitrary" and "undermining" to families. Nobody knew what might happen if gay partnerships were made legal -- and Republicans worked to make this unknown quantity as frightening as possible.

But in the 2006 midterm elections, when candidates like Rich Santorum (R - Pa) and George Allen (R -Va) tried this tactic again, it failed resoundingly. There are plenty of reasons why they didn't win, but doubtlessly one of them was their harping on the gay union issue had just gotten tired. (A desperate Allen released no fewer than five press releases on a New Jersey partnership ruling that occurred just two weeks before the election.) Massachusetts hadn't been pulled into the underworld in a burst of flames, and the successes of heterosexual marriage in that state were just as comfortably mediocre as ever. Similar partnership ventures in New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, California, Washington and Oregon, to date, have been carried out with no radical consequences.

Internationally, the marriage equality experiment has also been tested on a federal level in The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, South Africa, and Spain. Last fall, I spent a few months in Spain looking at what happened since that nation legalized same sex marriage on July 2, 2005. After traveling the country doing research and interviews, I came to the unexciting conclusion that the answer was: not much.

In the first year after legalization, of about 190,000 marriages nationally, only about 1,300 were between gay couples. There were no reported divorces. (The newspaper El Mundo claimed to have found the first example in the 13th month, complete with accusations over the loss of an animal hairdressing business, and a custody battle over a dog, natch.) By the Christmas 2006, one in every ten marriages in Madrid was between two members of the same sex. Alberto Ruiz-Gallardón, the conservative mayor of the capital city, even officiated the gay wedding of one of his deputies. It became, after little more than a year, normal. The right wing Partido Popular dropped most of its objections, and married life in the Catholic country (which has a 17% divorce rate compared to ours of nearly 50%), continued on as before.

As real-life experiments with equal gay rights are carried out federally and locally all over the world, the GOP can no longer count on the issue to scare voters to the ballot box. It may be that the long-term results in those places are not what gay activists would hope for, but in the short term, growing familiarity with the issue is working in their favor. The Democratic presidential candidates, sensing this change, have come out of their shells to talk about the issue openly and comfortably. It will no longer be an ignored plank in their broad platforms, as it was in 2004 when John Kerry rarely addressed his support of civil unions until after Bush suggested a federal amendment banning same sex marriage.

This time around, the Democratic candidates have already been more vocal about their positions. During Thursday's HRC debate, nobody is likely to say anything shocking or new. But for supporters of gay rights and marriage equality, merely having a debate says it all.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-rovzar/candidates-debate-gays_b_59305.html

Sitarro
08-06-2007, 05:45 PM
Be careful what you wish for, it might not get you what you expected. Marriage will not magically make you normal, you'll always be queer...... that is just how it is.

OCA
08-06-2007, 06:05 PM
This queer debate means absolutely nothing, its pandering to a group of voters, nothing less, nothing more. The S.C has ruled that "special rights" for queer choicers is a states right issue and almost to a state they are overwhelmingly rejecting queer choice marriage. The votes are being upheld constitutionally by state Supreme Courts and the USSC.

You are losing on this issue and losing badly.

avatar4321
08-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Having been in PA in 2006 and carefully watching the Santorum campaign, I can tell you that Santorum was not running an anti gay marriage campaign. He was focused heavily our need to defeat Islamic fascism. I never saw a single ad attacking gay marriage as central to campaign. He ran on his record.

Unfortunately, the conservatives stayed home and Pennsylvanians went for a guy whose only accomplishment is he had a famous father.

A shame really.

But to the point, this effort by the Democrats is going to backfire in their faces big time.

Little-Acorn
08-08-2007, 06:09 PM
What does it matter what the candidates said in the Aug 9 debate? No one watched.

avatar4321
08-08-2007, 08:55 PM
What does it matter what the candidates said in the Aug 9 debate? No one watched.

especially when they are all saying the same thing. There isnt a single Democrat who will go contrary to what the wack fringe of their base says. and its sad.

hjmick
08-08-2007, 11:58 PM
Can you say "pandering?"

It's a hell of a risk. A recent survey determined that gay support could cost candidates (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5290.html)

It's as much window dressing as the announcement today that the government intends to crack down on companiesemploying illegalsin the coming weeks. They all want to seem as though they care, asif they are doing something. All they care about is getting elected.

red states rule
08-09-2007, 06:17 AM
Can you say "pandering?"

It's a hell of a risk. A recent survey determined that gay support could cost candidates (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0807/5290.html)

It's as much window dressing as the announcement today that the government intends to crack down on companiesemploying illegalsin the coming weeks. They all want to seem as though they care, asif they are doing something. All they care about is getting elected.

Dems will get the same results in 08 by pushing the gay agenda as they did in 04

Pale Rider
08-09-2007, 03:33 PM
The truth of the matter is, liberals stand for all that is sick and immoral. It's as simple as that.

Hagbard Celine
08-09-2007, 03:45 PM
Wedge issue. If gays f*cked on the street it wouldn't affect my life in the slightest. Other than the fact that I might throw rotten fruit at 'em. This issue needs to be buried and taken out of the mainstream public discourse along with flag burning and abortion.

truthmatters
08-09-2007, 03:50 PM
4

Pale Rider
08-09-2007, 04:18 PM
Then why is it Rs keep getting caught giving blow jobs?

Talk straight and make some sense. This bullshit isn't worth the bandwidth it takes to display it.

OCA
08-09-2007, 04:47 PM
Then why is it Rs keep getting caught giving blow jobs?

R's have sick fucks amongst them too, just less than D's.

All homosexual lifestyle choice perversionists should be purged from the party on mental and moral incompetency grounds.

truthmatters
08-09-2007, 05:02 PM
4

OCA
08-09-2007, 07:19 PM
Just what is it about homosexuality is it you find Immoral or mentally unsound?

Your kidding, right? You can't be that stupid or naive.

OCA
08-09-2007, 07:27 PM
I will watch this tonight to out of all the lies which lie is propolgated the most.

Will it be the "born that way" lie or the "normal just like you and I" lie?

red states rule
08-10-2007, 04:03 AM
Wedge issue. If gays f*cked on the street it wouldn't affect my life in the slightest. Other than the fact that I might throw rotten fruit at 'em. This issue needs to be buried and taken out of the mainstream public discourse along with flag burning and abortion.

Dems are the ones who made it a wedge issue, and they are the ones continuing to make it a wedge issue by trying to force gay marriage on the country

red states rule
08-10-2007, 05:02 AM
Hillary had to, gasp, defend Bills record on gay issues.......

Hillary defends spouse's record on gay rights at voters' forum
By Christina Bellantoni
August 10, 2007
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton defended her husband's record on homosexual rights last night in an emotional exchange with singer Melissa Etheridge during a broad forum hosted by the Human Rights Campaign.

Miss Etheridge told the New York Democrat she felt betrayed in the years after she came out as a lesbian during the week of President Bill Clinton's inauguration in 1993.

"Our hearts were broken, we were thrown under the bus, we were pushed aside, all those great promises that were made to us were broken," Miss Etheridge said, alluding to Mr. Clinton's going back on his promise to repeal the ban on open homosexuals in the military and his signing the Defense of Marriage Act.

"Are we going to be left behind the way we were before?" she asked.

Mrs. Clinton lauded her husband's achievements on appointing homosexuals to administration positions but also said she would scrap her husband's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow active homosexuals to serve openly in the military.

"I don't see it the way you describe," she told Miss Etheridge. "We certainly didn't get as much done as I would have liked but I believed there was a lot of honest effort going on."

Mrs. Clinton was the final 2008 presidential candidate to speak during the two-hour Visible Vote '08 forum, hosted in Los Angeles by the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), streamed online and televised nationally only by the Logo cable channel.

The former first lady pledged to work "to change attitudes and persuade people that they should be more open, more respectful, more understanding" and said the "mean-spirited" era of targeting homosexuals is no more.

http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070810/NATION/108100097/1001

Hugh Lincoln
08-11-2007, 08:25 PM
Miss Etheridge told the New York Democrat she felt betrayed in the years after she came out as a lesbian during the week of President Bill Clinton's inauguration in 1993.

"Our hearts were broken, we were thrown under the bus, we were pushed aside, all those great promises that were made to us were broken," Miss Etheridge said, alluding to Mr. Clinton's going back on his promise to repeal the ban on open homosexuals in the military and his signing the Defense of Marriage Act.

"Are we going to be left behind the way we were before?" she asked.


Boo fucking HOO! An obscenely wealthy, famous rock star with access to the candidate for president is crying that she was "pushed aside"? The thing I don't get about homosexuals is how exactly they're suffering in America. They are free to engage in their disease-spreading sexual activity WITHOUT LIMIT. They can live together, party together, wear buttless leather pants in parades, wear "I'm Queer" T-shirts to work, they have sitcoms all about them like Will and Grace, Hollywood adores them (and they in turn practically run Hollywood), they have members of Congress, Democrats slobber over them, they have famous spokesqueers like Rosie all over the place. The media loves them. They don't have children, so they can accumulate great wealth. They live in prim little cute neighborhoods in cities, go on cruises just for them, they even have a whole U.S. city, San Francisco, as "their city"...

If that's oppression, gimme some.

red states rule
08-12-2007, 05:12 AM
Boo fucking HOO! An obscenely wealthy, famous rock star with access to the candidate for president is crying that she was "pushed aside"? The thing I don't get about homosexuals is how exactly they're suffering in America. They are free to engage in their disease-spreading sexual activity WITHOUT LIMIT. They can live together, party together, wear buttless leather pants in parades, wear "I'm Queer" T-shirts to work, they have sitcoms all about them like Will and Grace, Hollywood adores them (and they in turn practically run Hollywood), they have members of Congress, Democrats slobber over them, they have famous spokesqueers like Rosie all over the place. The media loves them. They don't have children, so they can accumulate great wealth. They live in prim little cute neighborhoods in cities, go on cruises just for them, they even have a whole U.S. city, San Francisco, as "their city"...

If that's oppression, gimme some.




It is funny to see kook libs going after Hillary and whining how Bill let them down. Hillary has to stand there, smnile, and try not to raise her voice.