Budget Cuts Entitlements $1.7 Trillion, Slashes EPA 30%

[jimnyc]

It would certainly be nice to see much of the entitlements getting cut. There's far too much abuse and waste.

---

White House Budget Cuts Entitlements $1.7 Trillion, Slashes EPA 30%

The White House will release its “taxpayer-first budget” on Tuesday, which includes $1.7 trillion in cuts for entitlement spending and a 30 percent reduction in the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) budget.

The Trump budget proposal will balance over the next ten years by cutting both mandatory and discretionary funding for agencies such as the EPA and State Department. The budget proposal assumes that the economy will grow at three percent compared to the 1.6 percent growth that America experienced in 2016. White House staffers explained that the proposal is a “post-policy” budget, meaning that the budget assumes that Trump signed the health care overhaul known as the American Health Care Act (AHCA) and tax reform into law.

The budget proposal will make substantial cuts into four entitlement programs, SNAP (food stamps), CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program), and SSDI (Disability Insurance). The Trump budget assumes that the AHCA becomes law, which would roll back Medicaid expansion. White House staffers told Axios that the budget would cut entitlement costs through an “emphasis on work requirements for able-bodied people.”

Rest here - http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/22/white-house-budget-cuts-entitlements-1-7-trillion-slashes-epa-30/

[pete311]

Lots of waste in the military and yet we raise its budget.

Can you find $125B in waste for food stamps?

Pentagon buries evidence of $125 billion in bureaucratic waste
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html

[aboutime]

It would certainly be nice to see much of the entitlements getting cut. There's far too much abuse and waste.

---

White House Budget Cuts Entitlements $1.7 Trillion, Slashes EPA 30%

The White House will release its “taxpayer-first budget” on Tuesday, which includes $1.7 trillion in cuts for entitlement spending and a 30 percent reduction in the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) budget.

The Trump budget proposal will balance over the next ten years by cutting both mandatory and discretionary funding for agencies such as the EPA and State Department. The budget proposal assumes that the economy will grow at three percent compared to the 1.6 percent growth that America experienced in 2016. White House staffers explained that the proposal is a “post-policy” budget, meaning that the budget assumes that Trump signed the health care overhaul known as the American Health Care Act (AHCA) and tax reform into law.

The budget proposal will make substantial cuts into four entitlement programs, SNAP (food stamps), CHIP (Children’s Health Insurance Program), and SSDI (Disability Insurance). The Trump budget assumes that the AHCA becomes law, which would roll back Medicaid expansion. White House staffers told Axios that the budget would cut entitlement costs through an “emphasis on work requirements for able-bodied people.”

Rest here - http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/05/22/white-house-budget-cuts-entitlements-1-7-trillion-slashes-epa-30/



jim. Of course. We all know by now, from experience; the dems will instantly declare Trump is starving children, and families, not to mention pushing old people out in the cold, or the heat.

But, we must remember. When CUTS are made, as they have been in the past. Those CUTS are actually (what the dems never admit)...no INCREASES, or RAISES. And with new requirements like....FOOD STAMPS cannot be used, traded, or given in return for DRUGS, BOOZE, or in some cases...NEW CARS on the ever present BLACK MARKET. And, as you said. To get eligible for entitlements that have always been without conditions by the Dems. The new requirements for able-bodied....scammer's is WORK for STAMPS. No worky....No Stampy!

[jimnyc]

We need defense, we don't "need" entitlements. I don't know any numbers, but I know food stamps are HUGELY abused. Slash and fix. Be happy I'm not in charge, I think folks that collect unemployment should perform some sort of public service employment to earn the money.

And also, fact is, we need to make cuts. This is a great place to start.

[pete311]

We need defense, we don't "need" entitlements. I don't know any numbers, but I know food stamps are HUGELY abused. Slash and fix. Be happy I'm not in charge, I think folks that collect unemployment should perform some sort of public service employment to earn the money.

And also, fact is, we need to make cuts. This is a great place to start.

My family member who is bi-polar schizophrenic survives on food stamps. Do you have stats on food stamp fraud and what it totals to? I bet it's relativity insignificant. Especially when you're ok with blowing hundreds of billions in the miltary.

Fox News apologizes for getting a report on food stamp fraud so very, very wrong
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/30/fox-news-apologizes-for-getting-a-report-on-food-stamp-fraud-so-very-very-wrong/

Talk about fake news?

[aboutime]

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/penalties-for-food-stamp-fraud/

Penalties For Food Stamp Fraud
Written by J. Hirby and Fact Checked by The Law Dictionary Staff
When a family is having difficulty making ends meet, they often seek food stamps. The amount of food stamps given depends upon the family's situation. A household with more dependents and less income is generally entitled to a larger food stamp allowance. When someone intentionally provides misleading information about the size of their household or the amount of their income on an application for food stamps, they may be guilty of food stamp fraud.

Law Dictionary: Penalties For Food Stamp Fraud

[jimnyc]

My family member who is bi-polar schizophrenic survives on food stamps. Do you have stats on food stamp fraud and what it totals to? I bet it's relativity insignificant. Especially when you're ok with blowing hundreds of billions in the miltary.

Fox News apologizes for getting a report on food stamp fraud so very, very wrong
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/30/fox-news-apologizes-for-getting-a-report-on-food-stamp-fraud-so-very-very-wrong/

Talk about fake news?

Sure, there are folks that need it. But not nearly as many that get them. The same for the abuse in unemployment. Same in various welfare programs. And other than the disabled, with these programs and money being handed out, I think they should have folks perform community services like cleaning and such. 2 birds with one stone. And with some, like unemployment, drug tests.

[pete311]

http://thelawdictionary.org/article/penalties-for-food-stamp-fraud/

Penalties For Food Stamp Fraud
Written by J. Hirby and Fact Checked by The Law Dictionary Staff
When a family is having difficulty making ends meet, they often seek food stamps. The amount of food stamps given depends upon the family's situation. A household with more dependents and less income is generally entitled to a larger food stamp allowance. When someone intentionally provides misleading information about the size of their household or the amount of their income on an application for food stamps, they may be guilty of food stamp fraud.

Law Dictionary: Penalties For Food Stamp Fraud





Yes and?

[pete311]

Sure, there are folks that need it. But not nearly as many that get them. The same for the abuse in unemployment. Same in various welfare programs. And other than the disabled, with these programs and money being handed out, I think they should have folks perform community services like cleaning and such. 2 birds with one stone. And with some, like unemployment, drug tests.

How do you know these things? Data behind your claims? How are they supposed to get a job when they are busy doing community service like they committed a some crime?

[jimnyc]

How do you know these things? Data behind your claims? How are they supposed to get a job when they are busy doing community service like they committed a some crime?

And why should they get 100% free money? Same with welfare? Food stamps? PLENTY of programs that are milking us dry, where folks abuse the shit out of the programs and the money. They use their cards for others to get half back in cash - to get drugs and alcohol. That little trick still exists today. People that are on unemployment for over 2 years. Get the EFF out of here - they can sure as shit find some volunteer time in 2 damn years!!

[aboutime]

Yes and?


Petey. AND....Show me anywhere you can find that says anything in the 2018 budget that cuts funding for SPECIAL NEEDS? Truth is. There are already funds, and funding made available that do more than the FOOD STAMPS.
Truth is. The primary CHEATERS, FRAUDS, and COOKING THE SYSTEM recipients of FOOD STAMPS, and WELFARE... WILL, and SHOULD be the ones crying the loudest.
As I said in my first post. People like YOU, and the Dems will instantly find your "RED HERRING to accuse Trump, and Republicans.

If you paid, just a little bit of attention at verifying all of the typical, liberal rumors, and accusations being presented...which are FALSE, FRAUDULENT, and LIES from the Left. Maybe, just maybe some of us older folks you despise would be willing to actually talk to you LIKE A MAN, instead of a SNOWFLAKE.

[NightTrain]

My family member who is bi-polar schizophrenic survives on food stamps.

Is this the same person who is a huge drug junkie?

Heroin, wasn't it?

[Kathianne]

My family member who is bi-polar schizophrenic survives on food stamps. Do you have stats on food stamp fraud and what it totals to? I bet it's relativity insignificant. Especially when you're ok with blowing hundreds of billions in the miltary.

Fox News apologizes for getting a report on food stamp fraud so very, very wrong
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/30/fox-news-apologizes-for-getting-a-report-on-food-stamp-fraud-so-very-very-wrong/

Talk about fake news?


Why doesn't your family take care of the family member?

Indeed, why should the federal government, the least efficient of all levels of government, be tasked with things that communities, families and local government should be responding? Oh yeah, the 30's, 60's, and early 70's. Way past time to roll that back.

[Gunny]

Lots of waste in the military and yet we raise its budget.

Can you find $125B in waste for food stamps?

Pentagon buries evidence of $125 billion in bureaucratic waste
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/pentagon-buries-evidence-of-125-billion-in-bureaucratic-waste/2016/12/05/e0668c76-9af6-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.htmlIf the military fared as well under O0blah-blah as we did under Clinton, they NEED a budget increase. Clinton just flat f*cked us. Then you lefties cried and whines and made a big deal about our body armor that was a situation YOUR party's negelct for 8 years directly caused. In 1999, out of 12 Harriers on deck could fly because we had no spare parts. I don't want to hear that whining unless you go sign up and find yourself a ship or platoon those Harriers protect. Manned at 85%. No spare people either.

I do NOT agree with cutting SSDI. If you need it and can prove you do, you should get the help you need. Nobody asked if I wanted to participate in a government retirement plan. I could double income they offer if I had the money they take from me involuntarily every month. I hate that BS. You pay into something for years then someone changes the rules and you just gave your money away.

And if you want to get rid of the bureaucratic waste, we may agree on something.

[pete311]

And why should they get 100% free money? Same with welfare? Food stamps? PLENTY of programs that are milking us dry, where folks abuse the shit out of the programs and the money. They use their cards for others to get half back in cash - to get drugs and alcohol. That little trick still exists today. People that are on unemployment for over 2 years. Get the EFF out of here - they can sure as shit find some volunteer time in 2 damn years!!

Yes I understand very well that if standing next to a starving man, you'd rather watch a pile of $125B of military money burn instead of feeding the man. You still haven't backed up your dramatic claims. Oh and speaking of "needing defense", why should I pay for your defense? What happened to personal responsibility? Didn't invent Facebook and become a billionaire so you can afford a personal tank and jet fighter? Well sucks for you. Personal responsibility.

[pete311]

Why doesn't your family take care of the family member?

Indeed, why should the federal government, the least efficient of all levels of government, be tasked with things that communities, families and local government should be responding? Oh yeah, the 30's, 60's, and early 70's. Way past time to roll that back.

hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.

[Kathianne]

hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.

Hmmm, the government isn't sending a babysitter, just money.

[NightTrain]

hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.

So, you contend that it's our responsibility to give food stamps to your family member so she can continue to spend whatever cash that frees up on Heroin?

[aboutime]

hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.


petey. You come here to shame others for what you call 'dissing' your family? Another RED HERRING award for you. You see. ALL OF US can see through your liberally trained Excuses, and Whining stories so you can claim we are LOW DOWN like Nancy Pelosi, and Hillary...who...if she had won. WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU and your INSULTED family everything YOU WANT...because it's SOMEBODY ELSE'S MONEY.

You are so full of BS, and sound more like an Obama Wannabe Pretender. You really should go somewhere else. Somewhere where all the BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS you seem to emulate, will CRY THEIR CROCK TEARS and declare everyone else, who doesn't think like you....TERRIBLE, BABY, AND OLD PEOPLE KILLERS because we don't want to PAY for someone else's trouble. As if WE HAVE NONE OF OUR OWN.

So...stay INSULTED. You deserve it for a change.

[Gunny]

Yes I understand very well that if standing next to a starving man, you'd rather watch a pile of $125B of military money burn instead of feeding the man. You still haven't backed up your dramatic claims. Oh and speaking of "needing defense", why should I pay for your defense? What happened to personal responsibility? Didn't invent Facebook and become a billionaire so you can afford a personal tank and jet fighter? Well sucks for you. Personal responsibility.


hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.You lost me here. You are insulted and do so much, huh? We'd rather watch people starve...

Guess what .... I've got more Humanitarian Assistance Medals than I do Combat Action Ribbons. And you don't know poor. No one in this country does. You think if some bum doesn't get off his ass and go get some food or shelter or clothing it's our fault for not holding his little hand and delivering his chow. Anyone starving in THIS country is their own doing because it's out there. They just won;t go get it like they won't just go get a job.

Not so in SE Asia, Africa, India, China. Those people live like dogs. They sleep outside. Dig through trash for food or beg for it. The kids in indonesia would sell trinkets on the beach to tourists, hand outside the restaurant garbage cans to see what some wealthy Westerner was going to throw in the trash. They had no concept of hygiene. Few had shoes.

Were YOU there feeding and clothing and giving away crap you could replace on the ship with a trip to the store that they thought was priceless? No you weren't.

You want to slam the military because your entitled mind wants to give crap to people who for the most part won't go get it? We spend more time doing good than harming anyone.

So don't you insult us with your whining.

And I've always participated in charities there or here, wheter it was my time and skills or money. I just feel it cheapens it if I have to brag about. I do it out of kindness, not a "Been there, done that" tee shirt.

But when you want to just take it from me? Screw you. THAT is not charity.

[aboutime]

You lost me here. You are insulted and do so much, huh? We'd rather watch people starve...

Guess what .... I've got more Humanitarian Assistance Medals than I do Combat Action Ribbons. And you don't know poor. No one in this country does. You think if some bum doesn't get off his ass and go get some food or shelter or clothing it's our fault for not holding his little hand and delivering his chow. Anyone starving in THIS country is their own doing because it's out there. They just won;t go get it like they won't just go get a job.

Not so in SE Asia, Africa, India, China. Those people live like dogs. They sleep outside. Dig through trash for food or beg for it. The kids in indonesia would sell trinkets on the beach to tourists, hand outside the restaurant garbage cans to see what some wealthy Westerner was going to throw in the trash. They had no concept of hygiene. Few had shoes.

Were YOU there feeding and clothing and giving away crap you could replace on the ship with a trip to the store that they thought was priceless? No you weren't.

You want to slam the military because your entitled mind wants to give crap to people who for the most part won't go get it? We spend more time doing good than harming anyone.

So don't you insult us with your whining.

And I've always participated in charities there or here, wheter it was my time and skills or money. I just feel it cheapens it if I have to brag about. I do it out of kindness, not a "Been there, done that" tee shirt.

But when you want to just take it from me? Screw you. THAT is not charity.



Thanks Gunny. Ditto from me, and the rest of the military.
petey wouldn't survive an hour in HAITI, or with the CUBAN families that left that country in old refrigerators, 55 chevy bodies, pallets hammered together to hold 8 people, with a couple of babies being breast fed by their mother's.
While I got ashore for an hour in HAITI. The striking thing I remembered was...There were very few tree's, taller than a man. Because they are so poor there. They cut all the wood down, years ago.
So tell us petey. How much worse is it for you, and your family? Having a home, a car, electricity, running water, a toilet, a refrigerator with food in it. And a safe place to sleep???
There are families down there who live in cardboard boxes, with a campfire out front to keep the insects away.
You wanna call us terrible? Look in the mirror once in awhile. THAT'S ALL.

[pete311]

Hmmm, the government isn't sending a babysitter, just money.

With her mental illness she can't hold a job. Thus, she needs the stamps to survive.

[Kathianne]

With her mental illness she can't hold a job. Thus, she needs the stamps to survive.

and from what you've written, there should be little hardship for you and other family members to make up a $200 per month need.

I actually figure she qualifies for disability and should get the benefits that go with that. It still doesn't make sense though, for the fed to do this. It should be family and local/state government responsibility.

[Gunny]

With her mental illness she can't hold a job. Thus, she needs the stamps to survive.


and from what you've written, there should be little hardship for you and other family members to make up a $200 per month need.

I actually figure she qualifies for disability and should get the benefits that go with that. It still doesn't make sense though, for the fed to do this. It should be family and local/state government responsibility.

What she said, Pete. People truly in need should be helped. It' is however YOUR family, not the government's. Instead of thinking tax me more for more handouts you focus a little more on the problem. You hit the nail on the head with a too-big Bureaucracy. Add to that the money being wasted by abuse of the system. There are people that work harder at getting out of work and getting paid for it than if they'd just get a job.

[NightTrain]

With her mental illness she can't hold a job. Thus, she needs the stamps to survive.

Junkies don't deserve foodstamps.

She's your family and your responsibility.

[CSM]

I find it ironic that the first target of libs is always the military (when it comes to budget cuts). Is there waste, fraud and abuse in the military budget? You bet! I am willing to bet that every single government program has some waste fraud an abuse attached to it. The same folks who whine about the military budget are the same ones who refuse to ruck up, suck it up and go do what needs to be done. I have seen more compassion, humanity, kindness and charity from military members than I have ever seen from civilians. Mostly because military folks get sent to the shit holes civilians would never think of going to. US citizens think that taking somebody else's money and giving it to "the poor" makes them the equivalent of Mother Theresa.

Gunny is absolutely right. People here in the US have no idea of what TRUE poverty looks like.

[jimnyc]

Yes I understand very well that if standing next to a starving man, you'd rather watch a pile of $125B of military money burn instead of feeding the man. You still haven't backed up your dramatic claims. Oh and speaking of "needing defense", why should I pay for your defense? What happened to personal responsibility? Didn't invent Facebook and become a billionaire so you can afford a personal tank and jet fighter? Well sucks for you. Personal responsibility.


hmmmm maybe because we all work, family member wants to be semi-independent, have a life and we're not medically trained. It's also absolutely insulting that you think we don't care for the family member. You have no idea what we've been through and what we do. Absolutely insulted.

You're insulted - as you tell me how I would react with a starving person? I already stated that I had no issue with folks in actual need getting help, asshole.

I have bipolar, Pete, as well as hypomania. My doctor filled out all of the paperwork to get me some sort of benefits. Then some woman contacted me from social security I believe it was? I turned it all down. It's a waste and would have been abuse had I accepted the funding. Sure, I can use some extra $$, but my family is more than capable of helping me with any funding if I need it - and I never did. But I won't sit back and just collect, 'just because I can'. I choose to work contracting gigs and side jobs. My wife does more than well. Just too many options for me to have accepted free money.

I don't like it when the entitlements get used and abused while Dems are in office, but had little choice but to sit back and watch. You don't like the republicans increasing spending on our military and increases? Awwwwww, tell it to someone who may actually care!

[Gunny]

You're insulted - as you tell me how I would react with a starving person? I already stated that I had no issue with folks in actual need getting help, asshole.

I have bipolar, Pete, as well as hypomania. My doctor filled out all of the paperwork to get me some sort of benefits. Then some woman contacted me from social security I believe it was? I turned it all down. It's a waste and would have been abuse had I accepted the funding. Sure, I can use some extra $$, but my family is more than capable of helping me with any funding if I need it - and I never did. But I won't sit back and just collect, 'just because I can'. I choose to work contracting gigs and side jobs. My wife does more than well. Just too many options for me to have accepted free money.

I don't like it when the entitlements get used and abused while Dems are in office, but had little choice but to sit back and watch. You don't like the republicans increasing spending on our military and increases? Awwwwww, tell it to someone who may actually care!I just don't like the blanket, ignorant statements people make about the military based on political propaganda. They have no idea what we do. Unless someone screws up. The left is ALL over THAT.

Without us, Pete wouldn't have a right to bitch about us. Remember that Tsunami that hit Bali? Who was there with aid first? US Navy and Marines. Guess we had to take time out from committing war crimes :rolleyes:. Apparently the truly poor and indigent in other countries aren't worth our time and money?

[pete311]

Gunny is absolutely right. People here in the US have no idea of what TRUE poverty looks like.

You dumbass, I've been to over 60 countries and volunteered in several. I know poverty.

[pete311]

Junkies don't deserve foodstamps.

She's your family and your responsibility.

Addiction, pi-polar and schizophrenia are medical diseases. My family does not have the medical or background or resources to help her alone.

[pete311]

You're insulted - as you tell me how I would react with a starving person? I already stated that I had no issue with folks in actual need getting help, asshole.

I have bipolar, Pete, as well as hypomania. My doctor filled out all of the paperwork to get me some sort of benefits. Then some woman contacted me from social security I believe it was? I turned it all down. It's a waste and would have been abuse had I accepted the funding. Sure, I can use some extra $$, but my family is more than capable of helping me with any funding if I need it - and I never did. But I won't sit back and just collect, 'just because I can'. I choose to work contracting gigs and side jobs. My wife does more than well. Just too many options for me to have accepted free money.

I don't like it when the entitlements get used and abused while Dems are in office, but had little choice but to sit back and watch. You don't like the republicans increasing spending on our military and increases? Awwwwww, tell it to someone who may actually care!

Great you are still very functional. When you start losing touch with reality let me know.

[Black Diamond]

Addiction, pi-polar and schizophrenia are medical diseases. My family does not have the medical or background or resources to help her alone.
If she has schizophrenia I am fine paying for a state hospital. That's where people with that conditions belong. They should not be released on society because they have "rights". See the dark knight returns shooter.

Heroin addiction is something people bring on themselves. Can't afford to pay for treatment? Don't do the damn drug. And support a wall between US and Mexico. Mexico is where most of the heroin comes from.

[Black Diamond]

Great you are still very functional. When you start losing touch with reality let me know.
Schizophrenia is different bipolar yes?

[pete311]

Heroin addiction is something people bring on themselves.

Pain killers prescribed by doctors are now a top gateway to opioid addiction. I won't even address your state hospital comment.

[pete311]

Schizophrenia is different bipolar yes?

yes

[Black Diamond]

Pain killers prescribed by doctors are now a top gateway to opioid addiction. I won't even address your state hospital comment.
Yes. Doctors are responsible for her heroin addiction. Not her. typical left. Always someone else's fault.

[Black Diamond]

yes
Then you addressing Jim being functional isn't really fair.

[Black Diamond]

Pain killers prescribed by doctors are now a top gateway to opioid addiction. I won't even address your state hospital comment.
As for the hospital comment, I reached out and said I would pay for it. I shouldn't pay for someone to stick a needle in her arm.

[Black Diamond]

As for the hospital comment, I reached out and said I would pay for it. I shouldn't pay for someone to stick a needle in her arm.
and, I was talking about those patients who are no longer functional.

[pete311]

and, I was talking about those patients who are no longer functional.

Non functional people already spend most of their time in hospitals or half way houses. I assumed you were talking about bringing back asylums.

[pete311]

As for the hospital comment, I reached out and said I would pay for it. I shouldn't pay for someone to stick a needle in her arm.

Nor would I, why would you say this?

[pete311]

Yes. Doctors are responsible for her heroin addiction. Not her. typical left. Always someone else's fault.

Not hers, but many, yes. Are you arguing the opioid medication epidemic?

[Black Diamond]

Non functional people already spend most of their time in hospitals or half way houses. I assumed you were talking about bringing back asylums.
You made this personal. I don't understand those who make things like this personal. I lost two people I cared about to smoking. I am not on a crusade against cigarette companies and I don't get upset at those with whatever views they have on them. Tax cigarettes, don't tax them, keep them legal, outlaw them....

i don't get in a tizzy about the different views on smoking.

[pete311]

You made this personal. I don't understand those who make things like this personal. I lost two people I cared about to smoking. I am not on a crusade against cigarette companies and I don't get upset at those with whatever views they have on them. Tax cigarettes, don't tax them, keep them legal, outlaw them....

i don't get in a tizzy about the different views on smoking.

Maybe you should be in a tizzy because your loved ones died to make some executives rich. That doesn't make you feel anything? Literally, they hooked your loved ones using chemicals so they bought more of their product which ultimately killed them so they could enjoy fine wine and caviar. Don't tell me personal responsibility, because they marketed cigs as healthy for decades and paid off researchers to hide studies. Nicotine changes your brain. Hello!!!

[Black Diamond]

Maybe you should be in a tizzy because your loved ones died to make some executives rich. That doesn't make you feel anything? Literally, they hooked your loved ones using chemicals so they bought more of their product which ultimately killed them so they could enjoy fine wine and caviar. Don't tell me personal responsibility, because they marketed cigs as healthy for decades and paid off researchers to hide studies. Nicotine changes your brain. Hello!!!
What about anheuser Busch and Jack Daniels? Any deaths from them?


Also obesity is more dangerous than smoking. outlaw McDonald's and twinkies? Where do we stop?

[Black Diamond]

Maybe you should be in a tizzy because your loved ones died to make some executives rich. That doesn't make you feel anything? Literally, they hooked your loved ones using chemicals so they bought more of their product which ultimately killed them so they could enjoy fine wine and caviar. Don't tell me personal responsibility, because they marketed cigs as healthy for decades and paid off researchers to hide studies. Nicotine changes your brain. Hello!!!
I should add my uncle said he had no one but himself to blame for getting lung cancer. He told his wife not to go after the cigarette companies. He took responsibility for his actions.

[pete311]

I should add my uncle said he had no one but himself to blame for getting lung cancer. He told his wife not to go after the cigarette companies. He took responsibility for his actions.

And your uncle is wrong. Nicotine changes the brain. You want personal responsibility then take nicotine out of cigs. If your uncle smoked only natural cigs like American Spirits, ok then, yeah it's on him. Otherwise the cig companies poured chemicals into your uncles brain, changed it and made him a slave to them.

[Black Diamond]

And your uncle is wrong. Nicotine changes the brain. You want personal responsibility then take nicotine out of cigs. If your uncle smoked only natural cigs like American Spirits, ok then, yeah it's on him. Otherwise the cig companies poured chemicals into your uncles brain, changed it and made him a slave to them.
how did my dad ever quit smoking, then? my uncle was told over and over again by doctors to quit smoking and he didn't do it. people can quit smoking or accept the risk. uncle accepted the risk, played russian roulette and the bullet lined up. he didn't whine. and my uncle isn't right or wrong anymore. He's dead.

[pete311]

how did my dad ever quit smoking, then? my uncle was told over and over again by doctors to quit smoking and he didn't do it. people can quit smoking or accept the risk. uncle accepted the risk, played russian roulette and the bullet lined up. he didn't whine. and my uncle isn't right or wrong anymore. He's dead.

Brains are not all a like, some people can quit, some can't. Some don't care. Maybe that was your uncle. Sounds like a slow suicide. But it's not controversial that nicotine creates addiction.

[Black Diamond]

Brains are not all a like, some people can quit, some can't. Some don't care. Maybe that was your uncle. Sounds like a slow suicide. But it's not controversial that nicotine creates addiction.
Addiction can be beaten unless it's alcohol or benzos past a certain point. Heroin and cigarettes don't fall under that category.

I am not even against smoking. Just be responsible and don't complain when the bill comes.

[Black Diamond]

Also what about those who flat like smoking?

[pete311]

Also what about those who flat like smoking?

More power to them, just take out the addiction chemicals and smoke away till the reaper calls your name for all I care. The additives take control away.