Trump calls for tougher sanctions against NK

[jimnyc]

What are they going to sanction, I wonder? Take the grass away from their citizens?

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Trump Calls for Tougher Sanctions After NKorea Missile Launch

President Donald Trump called for tougher sanctions against North Korea after it test-fired a ballistic missile Sunday in an apparent attempt to test the South's new liberal president and the US.

"Let this latest provocation serve as a call for all nations to implement far stronger sanctions against North Korea," the White House said in a brief statement.

The missile flew more than 700 kilometres (435 miles) before landing in the Sea of Japan (East Sea).

It impacted "so close to Russian soil ... the president cannot imagine that Russia is pleased", the White House said, adding that North Korea "has been a flagrant menace for far too long".

Russia's defence ministry later said the missile landed about 500 km from its border and posed no threat.

Trump's national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, had phone conversations with his counterparts in Japan and South Korea to discuss the situation.

China, which has been under growing US pressure to help rein in the nuclear-armed North, called for restraint.

"All relevant parties should exercise restraint and refrain from further aggravating tensions in the region," the foreign ministry said.

Multiple sets of UN and US sanctions against North Korea have done little to deter it from pursuing its nuclear and missile ambitions.

Before the missile test, the US Treasury said it was considering "every tool in our arsenal" to cut off sources of international financing for illegal activities in the North.

Rest here - http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/NKorea-SKorea-US-military/2017/05/14/id/790000/

[Black Diamond]

Well China has already agreed to buy American coal instead of North Korean coal.

[Gunny]

Well China has already agreed to buy American coal instead of North Korean coal.

China and Russia view NK as they USSR did its satellite nations. North Korea is a buffer between us and them. And I don't think they really care if Kim pesters us. Keeps are attention off them.

[pete311]

Why aren't we maxed out as it is? What else can we do for sanctions?

[Black Diamond]

Why aren't we maxed out as it is? What else can we do for sanctions?
I guess we should go to war.

[Gunny]

China and Russia view NK as they USSR did its satellite nations. North Korea is a buffer between us and them. And I don't think they really care if Kim pesters us. Keeps are attention off them.

Sanctions don't work because not everyone is playing ball. He's getting materiel from soemwhere and we know it's not the West. Japan isn't going to give NK anything. Kind of narrows it down, huh?

If we're going to to take out NK, we have to be prepared to take on Cihina, Russia or both. I doubt Russia would involve itself. Too busy stealing land and oil in the West.

[Kathianne]

From what I'm hearing, the missile stayed airborne for over 30 minutes. It was capable of having a nuclear warhead.

[Black Diamond]

From what I'm hearing, the missile stayed airborne for over 30 minutes. It was capable of having a nuclear warhead.
That's their claim. Give thanks to Bubba. And expect the same thing from Iran.

[Kathianne]

That's their claim. Give thanks to Bubba. And expect the same thing from Iran.
Actually I thought the nuclear bit came for DOD?

[Black Diamond]

Actually I thought the nuclear bit came for DOD?
Lemme look

[Gunny]

From what I'm hearing, the missile stayed airborne for over 30 minutes. It was capable of having a nuclear warhead.

Think about it though. Airborne over 30 minutes and didn't get out of NK's geographical location. Awfully slow missile if you ask me. A fighter could shoot it down.

[Kathianne]

Think about it though. Airborne over 30 minutes and didn't get out of NK's geographical location. Awfully slow missile if you ask me. A fighter could shoot it down.

You understand this stuff: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/north-korea-fires-missile-800-kilometres-challenging-s-korean-leader-1.3412625?autoPlay=true

[Black Diamond]

I haven't herb able to find anything that supports Kim's claim that it can carry a warhead.

[Gunny]

You understand this stuff: http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/north-korea-fires-missile-800-kilometres-challenging-s-korean-leader-1.3412625?autoPlay=trueThere is more than one factor at play here. Let's see if I can remember what I just read.

First, this is not the US against NK. The 38th Parallel is a UN brokered deal, and the Korean War was a UN war, not a US war.

Second, we got enough firepower over there to take that place off the map. Even if Punky gets a missile, how many is he going to have?

When does China say "enough"? He's a bigger nuclear threat to China than he is the US.

This "ultimate goal" of unifying Korea is just smoke. Except when occupied by Japan during WWII, Korea has been 2 and sometimes 3 kingdoms since North and South were 2 separate cultures and have warred with each other off and on for centuries. "Communism" is just the excuse du jour.

Kim wants to be recognized as some kind of tough guy and equal to all the other superpowers. He couldn't win a game of checkers. Unfortunately we and the Rest of the West aren't know for being proactive. We don't respond until everything's out of control and it costs us 10 times as much in the end instead of just calling bullsh*t and acting now.

[Kathianne]

There is more than one factor at play here. Let's see if I can remember what I just read.

First, this is not the US against NK. The 38th Parallel is a UN brokered deal, and the Korean War was a UN war, not a US war.

Second, we got enough firepower over there to take that place off the map. Even if Punky gets a missile, how many is he going to have?

When does China say "enough"? He's a bigger nuclear threat to China than he is the US.

This "ultimate goal" of unifying Korea is just smoke. Except when occupied by Japan during WWII, Korea has been 2 and sometimes 3 kingdoms since North and South were 2 separate cultures and have warred with each other off and on for centuries. "Communism" is just the excuse du jour.

Kim wants to be recognized as some kind of tough guy and equal to all the other superpowers. He couldn't win a game of checkers. Unfortunately we and the Rest of the West aren't know for being proactive. We don't respond until everything's out of control and it costs us 10 times as much in the end instead of just calling bullsh*t and acting now.

Something lost, no doubt we have lots of resources. I was addressing what you brought up regarding time and distance, and perhaps control? I don't understand all of what's involved.

I get a 'super fast' response to an incoming nuke-as we tried to have reciprocal with USSR during Cold War. A sort of 'you may hit us, but you'll pay a price in return-even if we're dead'.

Not sure of the 'learning curve' of development, which certainly is where NK is right now.

[Gunny]

Something lost, no doubt we have lots of resources. I was addressing what you brought up regarding time and distance, and perhaps control? I don't understand all of what's involved.

I get a 'super fast' response to an incoming nuke-as we tried to have reciprocal with USSR during Cold War. A sort of 'you may hit us, but you'll pay a price in return-even if we're dead'.

Not sure of the 'learning curve' of development, which certainly is where NK is right now.

Oh. From what I gather, it was an extremely high altitude flight for a missile. Trajectory is everything in something like that. Same as in sports. The higher you throw the ball, the shorter distance it will go and the longer it will remain in the air. In the case if a missile fired in such manner it would be a sitting duck. While the missile would be going vertical, which is going to slow it down to begin with. A fighter (or fighters} would be flying at a greater rate of speed and a more flat trajectory incline set to intercept. Missile courses once set are pretty much locked. Fighters are not limited to preset strikes.

The article says something about the missile's range possibly being as far as Guam. I'm not seeing a missile make it down the Marianas or Gilberts. Talk about running a gauntlet of Air Force and Navy. Also. Guam is a US protectorate. It would be an act of war against the US. I doubt even Kim is THAT stupid.

[Kathianne]

Oh. From what I gather, it was an extremely high altitude flight for a missile. Trajectory is everything in something like that. Same as in sports. The higher you throw the ball, the shorter distance it will go and the longer it will remain in the air. In the case if a missile fired in such manner it would be a sitting duck. While the missile would be going vertical, which is going to slow it down to begin with. A fighter (or fighters} would be flying at a greater rate of speed and a more flat trajectory incline set to intercept. Missile courses once set are pretty much locked. Fighters are not limited to preset strikes.

The article says something about the missile's range possibly being as far as Guam. I'm not seeing a missile make it down the Marianas or Gilberts. Talk about running a gauntlet of Air Force and Navy. Also. Guam is a US protectorate. It would be an act of war against the US. I doubt even Kim is THAT stupid.

I don't know about his being stupid, but crazy enough to do so? Likely. Hell, I think he'd try for Hawaii if he could.

[Kathianne]

Oh. From what I gather, it was an extremely high altitude flight for a missile. Trajectory is everything in something like that. Same as in sports. The higher you throw the ball, the shorter distance it will go and the longer it will remain in the air. In the case if a missile fired in such manner it would be a sitting duck. While the missile would be going vertical, which is going to slow it down to begin with. A fighter (or fighters} would be flying at a greater rate of speed and a more flat trajectory incline set to intercept. Missile courses once set are pretty much locked. Fighters are not limited to preset strikes.

The article says something about the missile's range possibly being as far as Guam. I'm not seeing a missile make it down the Marianas or Gilberts. Talk about running a gauntlet of Air Force and Navy. Also. Guam is a US protectorate. It would be an act of war against the US. I doubt even Kim is THAT stupid.

AP has a good piece on what seems to have happened. It does seem like the nuclear warhead may be wishful thinking on NK's part, for now. However, the missile is causing great concern, it seems for very good reasons:

https://apnews.com/90edc3f6ff5f463d9bc4add621e5783e/AP-Explains:-North-Korea-missile-test-is-huge-step-forward

[Gunny]

AP has a good piece on what seems to have happened. It does seem like the nuclear warhead may be wishful thinking on NK's part, for now. However, the missile is causing great concern, it seems for very good reasons:

https://apnews.com/90edc3f6ff5f463d9bc4add621e5783e/AP-Explains:-North-Korea-missile-test-is-huge-step-forward

Kim is "proving" he can stand up to America? No he's not. He has the capability to piss us off. That's about it. Firing on us would be suicide. I think loves himself too much for that.

North Korea is no different than these rogues in the Middle East. The little economy they have balances precariously on a cliff on a non-existent war or in the case of the Middle East wars of their own creation. It's big business and these warmongers would have to get real jobs if one did not exist.

The Korean War ended 60-something years ago. Everyone has moved on with their lives except NK. KIm fancies himself one of "big boys" and he's not even close.

Here's a kicker .... not that we would have to go that far, but WE can hit NK from the Continental US easily and with impunity and with a LOT more than he's got to show to play with.

[Kathianne]

Kim is "proving" he can stand up to America? No he's not. He has the capability to piss us off. That's about it. Firing on us would be suicide. I think loves himself too much for that.

North Korea is no different than these rogues in the Middle East. The little economy they have balances precariously on a cliff on a non-existent war or in the case of the Middle East wars of their own creation. It's big business and these warmongers would have to get real jobs if one did not exist.

The Korean War ended 60-something years ago. Everyone has moved on with their lives except NK. KIm fancies himself one of "big boys" and he's not even close.

Here's a kicker .... not that we would have to go that far, but WE can hit NK from the Continental US easily and with impunity and with a LOT more than he's got to show to play with.

Gunny, you find one line to quibble with, your right, but it's not a discussion. I thought you'd have some more insight. No one knows how stable or not Kim is, but one can assume that with how he's pulling on the cape of not only the US but also China and now Russia, after all the missile came rather close to their controlled area.

I do think there are times to take crazy folks seriously and when we're talking missiles that can hit civilians-especially US civilians-something should be done. I believe it was this morning you added Iran as a country that is going nuclear because of Obama's inactions and actions. Same happened with NK years ago; as well as Pakistan and India. Unless one agrees with Obama with the idea that maybe it's just a better idea to let everyone have nukes, cause then the playing field is leveled, the time to act is now.

[Gunny]

Gunny, you find one line to quibble with, your right, but it's not a discussion. I thought you'd have some more insight. No one knows how stable or not Kim is, but one can assume that with how he's pulling on the cape of not only the US but also China and now Russia, after all the missile came rather close to their controlled area.

I do think there are times to take crazy folks seriously and when we're talking missiles that can hit civilians-especially US civilians-something should be done. I believe it was this morning you added Iran as a country that is going nuclear because of Obama's inactions and actions. Same happened with NK years ago; as well as Pakistan and India. Unless one agrees with Obama with the idea that maybe it's just a better idea to let everyone have nukes, cause then the playing field is leveled, the time to act is now.

Try again. I've been in Korea more than once. I'm not sure what insight you think you are looking for.

North Korea has had the capability to hit SK and possible Japan for decades. And I most certainly have already answered your question on many occasion and many a discussion. Stop them before they get started. We won't. Sorry if you don't like my answer
but the fact is, Korea is the first war qw didn't win because Truman decided he knew more about fighting wars than his generals. Can'y go back in the past and change it you have to deal with what is there.

I explained the trajectory thing to you and you turned around and posted some article that said the same thing. Trajectory is one of my strong suits.

If NK invades SK today, likely the same scenario would play out. We'd be sent reeling and backpedaling until we got our "stuff" together. Simply because no one wants to deal with the situation.

I've been to Operation Team Spirit on the DMZ twice. I know what's there. I know a lot of things. However, I retired 16 years ago and have had no real contact with the military since then. Since Korea for all intents and purposes is still in a state of war, I am going to assume everything that was classified the day I said goodbye still is. I'm not Hitlery. They'll hang ME from the nearest tree.

As far as people who are threats? It's not MY fault the people that possess the authority to do something about it stick their heads in the sand.

[Kathianne]

Try again. I've been in Korea more than once. I'm not sure what insight you think you are looking for.

North Korea has had the capability to hit SK and possible Japan for decades. And I most certainly have already answered your question on many occasion and many a discussion. Stop them before they get started. We won't. Sorry if you don't like my answer
but the fact is, Korea is the first war qw didn't win because Truman decided he knew more about fighting wars than his generals. Can'y go back in the past and change it you have to deal with what is there.

I explained the trajectory thing to you and you turned around and posted some article that said the same thing. Trajectory is one of my strong suits.

If NK invades SK today, likely the same scenario would play out. We'd be sent reeling and backpedaling until we got our "stuff" together. Simply because no one wants to deal with the situation.

I've been to Operation Team Spirit on the DMZ twice. I know what's there. I know a lot of things. However, I retired 16 years ago and have had no real contact with the military since then. Since Korea for all intents and purposes is still in a state of war, I am going to assume everything that was classified the day I said goodbye still is. I'm not Hitlery. They'll hang ME from the nearest tree.

As far as people who are threats? It's not MY fault the people that possess the authority to do something about it stick their heads in the sand.

As the article said, if they'd set a normal trajectory the missile would have been much faster and have gone much further than it did. In the first response it seemed you were saying that it seemed to be a very slow and short distance missile. That understanding would be my fault, I know little to nothing about such. I don't pretend to know because I've visited certain sites, read books on the subject, etc.

[Gunny]

As the article said, if they'd set a normal trajectory the missile would have been much faster and have gone much further than it did. In the first response it seemed you were saying that it seemed to be a very slow and short distance missile. That understanding would be my fault, I know little to nothing about such. I don't pretend to know because I've visited certain sites, read books on the subject, etc.

My first response was making fun of Kim. Not MY fault you're all paranoid and serious about the topic. You're worried about the technical capabilities of a weapon. The actual weapon is the person with th authority to fire it. The missile is merely a means of projecting. What can be done about it and will be done about it are two different things. As long as politics are involved nothing will be done unless Kim actually tries to use it.

I've fired weapons all my life. The rules of trajectory only change from weapon to weapon depending the speed and weight of the round and the distance The law of gravity vs power applies. Gravity always wins. The farther you are from your target, the bigger the effect of velocity drop. If you fire at the maximum range of your weapon the round could fall to the ground in front of your target. That is why they assign both a maximum range, and maximum effective range. The maximum effective range is nowhere near the maximum range.

You cannot however divorce technical ability from reality. We are a reactionary force. We will do nothing to stop Kim, nor Iran which is the bigger threat. Somebody will have to die first before we will react.

[Black Diamond]

My first response was making fun of Kim. Not MY fault you're all paranoid and serious about the topic. You're worried about the technical capabilities of a weapon. The actual weapon is the person with th authority to fire it. The missile is merely a means of projecting. What can be done about it and will be done about it are two different things. As long as politics are involved nothing will be done unless Kim actually tries to use it.

I've fired weapons all my life. The rules of trajectory only change from weapon to weapon depending the speed and weight of the round and the distance The law of gravity vs power applies. Gravity always wins. The farther you are from your target, the bigger the effect of velocity drop. If you fire at the maximum range of your weapon the round could fall to the ground in front of your target. That is why they assign both a maximum range, and maximum effective range. The maximum effective range is nowhere near the maximum range.

You cannot however divorce technical ability from reality. We are a reactionary force. We will do nothing to stop Kim, nor Iran which is the bigger threat. Somebody will have to die first before we will react.
1936 but with nukes. You gotta love it.

[Kathianne]

My first response was making fun of Kim. Not MY fault you're all paranoid and serious about the topic. You're worried about the technical capabilities of a weapon. The actual weapon is the person with th authority to fire it. The missile is merely a means of projecting. What can be done about it and will be done about it are two different things. As long as politics are involved nothing will be done unless Kim actually tries to use it.

I've fired weapons all my life. The rules of trajectory only change from weapon to weapon depending the speed and weight of the round and the distance The law of gravity vs power applies. Gravity always wins. The farther you are from your target, the bigger the effect of velocity drop. If you fire at the maximum range of your weapon the round could fall to the ground in front of your target. That is why they assign both a maximum range, and maximum effective range. The maximum effective range is nowhere near the maximum range.

You cannot however divorce technical ability from reality. We are a reactionary force. We will do nothing to stop Kim, nor Iran which is the bigger threat. Somebody will have to die first before we will react.

All's fine, though I'm a tad confused why you'd be surprised I'd be 'all serious' considering the topic, but Ok.

[Gunny]

All's fine, though I'm a tad confused why you'd be surprised I'd be 'all serious' considering the topic, but Ok..

It's a different mindset. I've seen all kinds of grief. Up close and personal. In general I'm no different than most Marine grunts. We laugh at crap that offends others but that's just how we deal. You learn to shut down, and you learn to not worry about things you can do nothing about. I've always been accused of being cold, but no more so than after I retired and tried fitting into the civilian world. I make a lousy civilian.

Kim's biggest threat is to himself. If fires even a single one of those missiles at an actual target, he's done. I know it. He knows it. I'm more concerned with Obama handing Iran the keys to the castle than I am some wannabe that has advanced little to none in 60 years. Kim is just a whiny little kid shaking his rattle for attention.

[Kathianne]

.

It's a different mindset. I've seen all kinds of grief. Up close and personal. In general I'm no different than most Marine grunts. We laugh at crap that offends others but that's just how we deal. You learn to shut down, and you learn to not worry about things you can do nothing about. I've always been accused of being cold, but no more so than after I retired and tried fitting into the civilian world. I make a lousy civilian.

Kim's biggest threat is to himself. If fires even a single one of those missiles at an actual target, he's done. I know it. He knows it. I'm more concerned with Obama handing Iran the keys to the castle than I am some wannabe that has advanced little to none in 60 years. Kim is just a whiny little kid shaking his rattle for attention.

The bolded is 'too late' to worry about, done is done. Actually it's basically the same problem now facing us with NK, just down the road a bit.

[Black Diamond]

The bolded is 'too late' to worry about, done is done. Actually it's basically the same problem now facing us with NK, just down the road a bit.
Obama didn't learn fr Clintons mistake?

[Kathianne]

Obama didn't learn fr Clintons mistake?

Obviously. Nor did Trump seem to learn from Hillary's.

[Gunny]

Obviously. Nor did Trump seem to learn from Hillary's.There is no comparison at all between trump and Hillary.

[Kathianne]

There is no comparison at all between trump and Hillary.

Um. Yeah.