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red states rule
08-06-2007, 04:54 AM
Here is great take on what the Dems surrender plan is really all about


Antiwar profiteering?

Ernest Istook
August 6, 2007

Some of the politicians who propose withdrawing our troops from Iraq have an ulterior motive. They want to stop spending money on the military so they can start spending it on social programs.

If they succeed, an army of social workers may prove the only force in the world capable of beating America's military. Funding that "army" is a revival of the "peace dividend" doctrine that brought us a hollowed-out military during the Clinton administration.

Sen. Barack Obama, Illinois Democrat, has claimed first dibs on the money to create a new $6-billion-a-year program against urban poverty "funded by savings from ending the Iraq war." Fellow presidential candidate John Edwards certainly will want a chunk, considering that his central theme is a mega-billion-dollar expansion of the "War on Poverty."

Congress is already on a spending spree. During the first six months of the new majority, the House and the Senate approved almost $200 billion in new spending, mostly to be financed with tax increases, with a little left over to lower the deficit. But raising taxes carries political risks, so tapping a "peace dividend" is an alternative justification for higher spending. It's a tempting target, because the five-year cost of our operations in Iraq and Afghanistan is officially calculated at $758 billion.

Bill Clinton pushed this argument when running for president, telling a 1991 Georgetown University audience, "With the dwindling Soviet threat, we can cut defense spending by over a third by 1997.... The American people have earned this peace dividend... and they are entitled to have the dividend reinvested in their future."

Today's lengthy troop deployments are one legacy of those cuts. Dropping the Army from 18 divisions to 10 forced each remaining soldier to spend more time overseas and less at home. It would be worse if Congress hadn't insisted on increased defense spending in the late Clinton years, followed by a further buildup under President George W. Bush.

But our military's needs won't end even if we reduce our activity in Iraq. Before the harsh desert environment took its toll on equipment and weapons, our inventory was aging. That's part of the reason the Heritage Foundation and many others urge a permanent defense budget commitment of 4 percent of gross domestic product (up from today's 3.9 percent).

This "4 Percent for Freedom" goal would conflict, obviously, with the social spending buildup leading Democrats want to finance partly by abandoning the mission in Iraq. It also would clash with the need to reduce federal deficits and balance the budget. But we can't allow our security needs to take second place.

for the complete article

http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070806/COMMENTARY/108060021/1012

Angel Heart
08-06-2007, 01:12 PM
The poor will always be poor. No matter how many programs you create. Unless they are programs that teach and help them better themselves, they don't work. Most of our programs out there are feel good programs that are no more than glorified hand outs. Don't require you to do anything in return to get them.

I belong to a program called Gleaners. It's a nonprofit food distribution program that serves low income, elderly and disabled. Our members, we require them to pay $20 and do 5 hours of team work a month. For every member there's an adoptee. An adoptee is someone who is disabled or elderly. The member shares their food with their adoptee. There are income guide lines that we follow. We are fully funded through membership dues and fundraising. The food is all excess that we buy from the stores at a discounted price. Not only are we feeding more people but we're keeping usable food out of landfills.

diuretic
08-06-2007, 01:18 PM
They want to stop spending money on the military so they can start spending it on social programs.

Oh how shocking! Depriving Halliburton, Blackwater et al of all that taxpayers money....my,my....whatever next :laugh2:

red states rule
08-06-2007, 09:24 PM
Oh how shocking! Depriving Halliburton, Blackwater et al of all that taxpayers money....my,my....whatever next :laugh2:

alot of elected Dems own stock in those copmanies - do you?

diuretic
08-07-2007, 04:08 AM
alot of elected Dems own stock in those copmanies - do you?

Nice diversionary tactic there RSR. No. Meanwhile back at the ranch.....:coffee:

red states rule
08-07-2007, 05:25 AM
Nice diversionary tactic there RSR. No. Meanwhile back at the ranch.....:coffee:

Libs do have a habit of saying on thing and doing another

Check your 401K - you may be a war profiteer as well

diuretic
08-07-2007, 05:57 AM
Libs do have a habit of saying on thing and doing another

Check your 401K - you may be a war profiteer as well

I don't have a 401K, I'm in my occupational superannuation scheme here in Aus.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 06:04 AM
I don't have a 401K, I'm in my occupational superannuation scheme here in Aus.

Ok

But the big mouth libs in the US (Michale Moore for one) does have stock in Haliburton

Elected Dems have been exposed to have stock not only in Haliburton, but Bechtel as well

The piont is, these companies are doing what they are in business to do - yet libs call it war profiteering

diuretic
08-07-2007, 06:14 AM
Ok

But the big mouth libs in the US (Michale Moore for one) does have stock in Haliburton

Elected Dems have been exposed to have stock not only in Haliburton, but Bechtel as well

The piont is, these companies are doing what they are in business to do - yet libs call it war profiteering

Companies are in business to make money, yes. How they do it is important. Prior to the invasion and occupation of Iraq Halliburton and Bechtel were probably toddling along with a bit of civil engineering here and there and making an honest dollar. Then along comes George's sound and light show and suddenly both of them are in with non-competitive bids. All that taxpayers' money sliding smoothly down the pipe to them. I don't give a rat's either way because it's not my tax dollars at work but if I were I'd be more than annoyed.

And if anyone who opposes the invasion and continuing occupation of Iraq has shares in Bechtel or Halliburton they are hypocrites and can avoid that tag by divesting themselves of those shares.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 06:18 AM
Companies are in business to make money, yes. How they do it is important. Prior to the invasion and occupation of Iraq Halliburton and Bechtel were probably toddling along with a bit of civil engineering here and there and making an honest dollar. Then along comes George's sound and light show and suddenly both of them are in with non-competitive bids. All that taxpayers' money sliding smoothly down the pipe to them. I don't give a rat's either way because it's not my tax dollars at work but if I were I'd be more than annoyed.

And if anyone who opposes the invasion and continuing occupation of Iraq has shares in Bechtel or Halliburton they are hypocrites and can avoid that tag by divesting themselves of those shares.

They are making a legal prfot and heloing the US win this war. Libs want to paint the usual picture of corporate greed while ignoring the facts

When the hell would libs actually live the way they tell the rest of us to live? Drinking while posting is not a good thing

diuretic
08-07-2007, 09:27 AM
They are making a legal prfot and heloing the US win this war. Libs want to paint the usual picture of corporate greed while ignoring the facts

Were they awarded contracts without open bidding?




When the hell would libs actually live the way they tell the rest of us to live? Drinking while posting is not a good thing

I don't understand the non sequitur here.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 09:46 AM
Were they awarded contracts without open bidding?




I don't understand the non sequitur here.

Halliburitn, in most cases, is the only company that offers the services they offer. If there are no other companies who can do the work - who is going to bid against them?

If you really think liberals will actually live their lives the way the lecture the rest of us to live ours - you must be drinking while posting

Angel Heart
08-07-2007, 02:02 PM
Were they awarded contracts without open bidding?


Some of the time they where the only option.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 02:03 PM
Some of the time they where the only option.

and that is what causes libs to go into attack mode

Angel Heart
08-07-2007, 02:04 PM
Then they should make their own companies and make it where they are not the only company out there providing those services. Until then... Quit the bitchin.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 02:06 PM
Then they should make their own companies and make it where they are not the only company out there providing those services. Until then... Quit the bitchin.

Everytime they do they fall on their ass

Air America for example

diuretic
08-07-2007, 02:18 PM
Halliburitn, in most cases, is the only company that offers the services they offer. If there are no other companies who can do the work - who is going to bid against them?

If you really think liberals will actually live their lives the way the lecture the rest of us to live ours - you must be drinking while posting

On Halliburton etc. How does anyone know who can do what if it's not open to competitive tendering? Looks like taxpayers money was funnelled to Halliburton and others by the Bush Administration. But then, as I said, I'm not an American taxpayer so I should probably shut up. But if I were, I'd be pissed off.

Do liberals lecture? I would have thought that making policy is hardly lecturing.

red states rule
08-07-2007, 02:20 PM
On Halliburton etc. How does anyone know who can do what if it's not open to competitive tendering? Looks like taxpayers money was funnelled to Halliburton and others by the Bush Administration. But then, as I said, I'm not an American taxpayer so I should probably shut up. But if I were, I'd be pissed off.

Do liberals lecture? I would have thought that making policy is hardly lecturing.

If you have only one company that provides the services you want - how else is going to compete for the work?

Libs live to lecture - but they do not apply those lectures to their lives