Jesus, Mary and Joseph were not refugees

[KarlMarx]

I guess it's too late to say anything about this, but does anyone remember the Pope making the claim that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees?

I guess it was the Pope's way of using our Lord and Savior and his family to further his political agenda. My pastor made the same claim, by the way.

And this bugged me because I didn't have a good rebuttal to their claims... until it hit me...

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not refugees... and why? Because a refugee is fleeing a country because of political persecution. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph fled Bethlehem in the Roman province of Palestine to the Roman province of Egypt... they didn't leave the Roman Empire. It's not as if Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were in the Persian Empire and, in the middle of the night, sneaked into the Roman Empire in the back of a truck.

Second... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not fleeing political persecution. They were fleeing because King Herod, in effect, put out a contract out on Jesus. So, it's like they went into the Federal Witness Protection Program.

No one says that Mafioso turned Federal informant, Joe Bologna Mafiosi, who is now living in Arizona under an assumed identity is a refugee, do they?

No, they don't and Jesus, Mary, and Joseph weren't either.


And.... oh by the way... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph returned to their homeland after King Herod died... they didn't stay in Egypt collecting welfare and other social services claiming that they were entitled to all the benefits that Egyptians enjoyed and weren't looking over their shoulder for the Egyptian ICE squad to have them deported... no, they left on their own...

Something that today's "refugees" have not done.


But, what the hey, it's just another reason why I find Pope Francis to be an embarrassment.

[pete311]

I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.

[aboutime]

I guess it's too late to say anything about this, but does anyone remember the Pope making the claim that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees?

I guess it was the Pope's way of using our Lord and Savior and his family to further his political agenda. My pastor made the same claim, by the way.

And this bugged me because I didn't have a good rebuttal to their claims... until it hit me...

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not refugees... and why? Because a refugee is fleeing a country because of political persecution. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph fled Bethlehem in the Roman province of Palestine to the Roman province of Egypt... they didn't leave the Roman Empire. It's not as if Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were in the Persian Empire and, in the middle of the night, sneaked into the Roman Empire in the back of a truck.

Second... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not fleeing political persecution. They were fleeing because King Herod, in effect, put out a contract out on Jesus. So, it's like they went into the Federal Witness Protection Program.

No one says that Mafioso turned Federal informant, Joe Bologna Mafiosi, who is now living in Arizona under an assumed identity is a refugee, do they?

No, they don't and Jesus, Mary, and Joseph weren't either.


And.... oh by the way... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph returned to their homeland after King Herod died... they didn't stay in Egypt collecting welfare and other social services claiming that they were entitled to all the benefits that Egyptians enjoyed and weren't looking over their shoulder for the Egyptian ICE squad to have them deported... no, they left on their own...

Something that today's "refugees" have not done.


But, what the hey, it's just another reason why I find Pope Francis to be an embarrassment.



Karl. I think I remember that. I believe it was the POPE's way of getting more money for the church from "refugees". I know a few Devout Catholics who hate to say it, but they don't like Francis because they see how POLITICALLY CORRECT he wants to be.

[Abbey Marie]

I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.

Dont be too sure. But either way, the Pope isn't letting Biblical truth get in the way of a good political agenda.

[gabosaurus]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not refugees... and why? Because a refugee is fleeing a country because of political persecution.

Only partially correct. Under international standards, a refugee is defined as "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster." It doesn't have to political persecution. It can be any sort of persecution.
Many current refugees have no option but to flee. Conflicts have destroyed their homes, jobs and lifestyles. Some experience all three.

Nice try spinning the whole thing, though.

[darin]

Joe and Mary were not carrying an improvised exploding device nor where they attempting mass-migration to influence the electorate and policy decisions of their newly taken-over-country through a soft invasion under the guise of 'fleeing'. Joe and Mary were not part of a cult whose sole purpose is to forcibly convert people to their insanity or kill them upon refusal.

Joe and Mary carried with them the opposite of those things. You are stupid, Gabby. And vile. and wrong. Always....always wrong.

[pete311]

Dont be too sure. But either way, the Pope isn't letting Biblical truth get in the way of a good political agenda.
Anyone you disagree with is political agenda. Don't get me wrong, I think the catholic church is criminal in a million ways.

[jimnyc]

Back then, if these folks were trying to force others into their way of life, and mass killing others for different beliefs... is that what Jesus, Mary & Joseph were doing back then? I didn't think so.

And folks here don't have an issue with helping refugees.

Folks here have an issue with illegal folks. They have issues with folks who outright refuse to assimilate. They have issues with refugees that make demands of their hosts. Issues with refugees who commit crimes by the first nightfall when folks help them. An issue with refugees who try to blow people up.

Take all of that out of there, have good folks seeking help - and as usual, the USA will step up to the plate.

[revelarts]

...the Pope making the claim that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees?
I guess it was the Pope's way of using our Lord and Savior and his family to further his political agenda. ...
And this bugged me because I didn't have a good rebuttal to their claims... until it hit me...
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not refugees... and why? Because a refugee is fleeing a country because of political persecution. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph fled Bethlehem in the Roman province of Palestine to the Roman province of Egypt... they didn't leave the Roman Empire. It's not as if Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were in the Persian Empire and, in the middle of the night, sneaked into the Roman Empire in the back of a truck.
Second... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were not fleeing political persecution. They were fleeing because King Herod, in effect, put out a contract out on Jesus. So, it's like they went into the Federal Witness Protection Program.
No one says that Mafioso turned Federal informant, Joe Bologna Mafiosi, who is now living in Arizona under an assumed identity is a refugee, do they?
No, they don't and Jesus, Mary, and Joseph weren't either.
And.... oh by the way... Jesus, Mary, and Joseph returned to their homeland after King Herod died... they didn't stay in Egypt collecting welfare and other social services claiming that they were entitled to all the benefits that Egyptians enjoyed and weren't looking over their shoulder for the Egyptian ICE squad to have them deported... no, they left on their own...
Something that today's "refugees" have not done.
But, what the hey, it's just another reason why I find Pope Francis to be an embarrassment.

I was going to reply but @gabosaurus (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=111) summed it up

Only partially correct. Under international standards, a refugee is defined as "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster." It doesn't have to political persecution. It can be any sort of persecution.
Many current refugees have no option but to flee. Conflicts have destroyed their homes, jobs and lifestyles. Some experience all three.
Nice try spinning the whole thing, though.
And also the King trying to kill your family seems pretty political BTW.

Karl, the others issues about staying or leaving and benefits etc., all that stuff are extras, 2ndary features. If Trump wanted to change those things he could ..with congress. But he's saying he wants to get rid of refugees period. Not simply get rid of Refugee BENEFITS.







I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.
Sadly not everyone with a lot of biblical knowledge always wants to acknowledge it or apply it honestly.

But in this case I'd have to agree withe Pope.
The scripture is pretty clear on this type of thing in general.

[Abbey Marie]

Anyone you disagree with is political agenda. Don't get me wrong, I think the catholic church is criminal in a million ways.

And you think being pro-refugee isn't political? You'd have to be living under a rock to think that.

[revelarts]

As far as refugees are concerned Biblically speaking there's NO GOOD ground to deny refugees.
The old and new testaments explicitly state that good nations should be kind to the foreigners who visit their country.
the law of Moses, Israel's legal system said as much.
And the prophets mentioned the mistreatment of foreigners as among the sins Israel committed.
However foreigners didn't get any special legal treatment. However, in general, they were often made up part of the "the poor". And as such were to be treated as such... with kindness.
Also because Israel was a tribal/religion based nation there were special land rights and religious rights to members of the tribe/religion. But even those could be granted to foreigners who became Jews. One example is Ruth.
Also the country's laws were never to change because of the foreign customs.

Exodus 22
“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

Exodus 23
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt."

Leviticus 18
"But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things..."

Leviticus 19
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.

Leviticus 19
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 23
“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the Lord your God.’”

Deuteronomy 20
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 20
“Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 19
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 20
“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him.

Leviticus 25
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.


And parts of a parable Jesus gave.

Matthew
...When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?......I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’...

Seems to me a lot of the anti-refugee, anti-illegal alien, anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim passion LACKS much biblical sentiment.

[jimnyc]

If Trump wanted to change those things he could ..with congress. But he's saying he wants to get rid of refugees period. Not simply get rid of Refugee BENEFITS.

Not exactly. He's open to refugees, but obviously wants more vetting, as do tons of others in America. He also wants or wanted to have a halt from 7 countries until such vetting were to be in place. I don't recall him ever stating he wants to get rid of refugees - period. The hardest stance of course is towards Syrian refugees, and I think it's smart to take as close a look as possible for folks incoming.

[revelarts]

Not exactly. He's open to refugees, but obviously wants more vetting, as do tons of others in America. He also wants or wanted to have a halt from 7 countries until such vetting were to be in place. I don't recall him ever stating he wants to get rid of refugees - period. The hardest stance of course is towards Syrian refugees, and I think it's smart to take as close a look as possible for folks incoming.

I've got no problem with vetting.
And banning where there's evidence of real problems.
But Trump has talked about blocking, deporting, and has banned nations that have far less likelihood of problems other nations. And the ad hoc new rules and 'vetting' has in fact blocked a lot of decent people for no good reason.
The best spin on what he's said always sounds almost credible.
But his actual words and actions are not that great when it comes to aliens and refugges.

[jimnyc]

I've got no problem with vetting.
And banning where there's evidence of real problems.
But Trump has talked about deporting, and has banned nations that have far less likelihood of problems other nations. And the ad hoc new rules and 'vetting' has in fact blocked a lot of decent people for no good reason.
The best spin on what he's said always sounds almost credible.
But his actual words and actions are not that great when it comes to aliens and refugges.

I was only pointing out that he wasn't 100% against, that he wanted the vetting sealed up before embracing the refugees. I can't really say I blame him. I think we should be much more tough than things were as well. But I understand that there does need to be a balance. "My" main complaint would be folks that they can't get any information on whatsoever. There has to be a line drawn on things like that too.

As for deporting, that I don't really have an issue with, so long as they are illegals (I'm assuming that's what you mean?) and then if they commit a crime in the country and are caught, in addition to being here illegally? Adios amigos!

[Black Diamond]

I was only pointing out that he wasn't 100% against, that he wanted the vetting sealed up before embracing the refugees. I can't really say I blame him. I think we should be much more tough than things were as well. But I understand that there does need to be a balance. "My" main complaint would be folks that they can't get any information on whatsoever. There has to be a line drawn on things like that too.

As for deporting, that I don't really have an issue with, so long as they are illegals (I'm assuming that's what you mean?) and then if they commit a crime in the country and are caught, in addition to being here illegally? Adios amigos!
You racist.

[jimnyc]

You racist.

Nevah!!

https://i.imgur.com/NIIJYYE.jpg

[Russ]

I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.

I would not challenge the Pope's biblical knowledge, but when the Pope says "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees", he's making a political statement, not a biblical statement. I also don't buy your statement that none of us are qualified to discuss anything the Pope has commented on - it's a debate board, for cryin' out loud....

[Black Diamond]

I would not challenge the Pope's biblical knowledge, but when the Pope says "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees", he's making a political statement, not a biblical statement. I also don't buy your statement that none of us are qualified to discuss anything the Pope has commented on - it a debate board, for cryin' out loud....
Food for thought Russ. Satan knows the Bible better than any
human.

[Gunny]

I would not challenge the Pope's biblical knowledge, but when the Pope says "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were refugees", he's making a political statement, not a biblical statement. I also don't buy your statement that none of us are qualified to discuss anything the Pope has commented on - it a debate board, for cryin' out loud....

They were tourists from Indiana.

[Russ]

As far as refugees are concerned Biblically speaking there's NO GOOD ground to deny refugees.
The old and new testaments explicitly state that good nations should be kind to the foreigners who visit their country.
the law of Moses, Israel's legal system said as much.
And the prophets mentioned the mistreatment of foreigners as among the sins Israel committed.
However foreigners didn't get any special legal treatment. However, in general, they were often made up part of the "the poor". And as such were to be treated as such... with kindness.
Also because Israel was a tribal/religion based nation there were special land rights and religious rights to members of the tribe/religion. But even those could be granted to foreigners who became Jews. One example is Ruth.
Also the country's laws were never to change because of the foreign customs.

Exodus 22
“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

Exodus 23
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt."

Leviticus 18
"But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things..."

Leviticus 19
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.

Leviticus 19
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 23
“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the Lord your God.’”

Deuteronomy 20
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 20
“Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 19
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 20
“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him.

Leviticus 25
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.


And parts of a parable Jesus gave.

Matthew
...When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?......I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’...

Seems to me a lot of the anti-refugee, anti-illegal alien, anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim passion LACKS much biblical sentiment.


Rev, you make a good case, and yes, as individuals we need to treat others with respect and help them out, as much as we can. Governments, however, have a duty to maintain orderly immigration and to protect the current citizens. Countries need to permit controlled immigration and should help refugees, but that doesn't mean they should permit uncontrolled immigration or an uncontrolled stream of refugees that might include terrorists. I think it is a political reality that the government actually has a duty to maintain control over the non-citizens entering the country. Not doing so invites ruin. Another unfortunate reality is that any country can only absorb so many refugees within a short amount of time. Trying to absorb too many, in a sudden wave, would really threaten the stability of the country.

In short - yes, Christians as individuals should be willing to welcome others, but governments still have to face some unpleasant realities before they allow open borders.

[aboutime]

As far as refugees are concerned Biblically speaking there's NO GOOD ground to deny refugees.
The old and new testaments explicitly state that good nations should be kind to the foreigners who visit their country.
the law of Moses, Israel's legal system said as much.
And the prophets mentioned the mistreatment of foreigners as among the sins Israel committed.
However foreigners didn't get any special legal treatment. However, in general, they were often made up part of the "the poor". And as such were to be treated as such... with kindness.
Also because Israel was a tribal/religion based nation there were special land rights and religious rights to members of the tribe/religion. But even those could be granted to foreigners who became Jews. One example is Ruth.
Also the country's laws were never to change because of the foreign customs.

Exodus 22
“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

Exodus 23
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt."

Leviticus 18
"But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things..."

Leviticus 19
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.

Leviticus 19
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 23
“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the Lord your God.’”

Deuteronomy 20
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 20
“Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 19
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 20
“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him.

Leviticus 25
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.


And parts of a parable Jesus gave.

Matthew
...When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?......I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’...

Seems to me a lot of the anti-refugee, anti-illegal alien, anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim passion LACKS much biblical sentiment.



rev. As surprising as this may sound to you, coming from me. I am a Christian, and I have a heart that feels for the needy, the sick, and the lonely. But, I am also a Christian who believes in FOLLOWING THE LAWS.
If we openly, without blocking...allow EVERYONE to come into our country, because we are loving, caring people...Tell me. AT WHAT NUMBER DO WE STOP LETTING ILLEGALS INTO OUR NATION?
Should we allow everyone from around the World to simply find a way to come here, and not worry about any THREATS they might bring with them?
If you can give me a number....that would be a start.

[BoogyMan]

I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.

Why, because man says he does?

[Abbey Marie]

Do we not have enough poor folks to take care of already? Should we abandon them in favor of "foreigners", as Rev would apparently have us? Or is that money tree blooming now?

Also, treating foreigners already here "in our land" well, as the quoted Bible verses above say, is different from bringing new ones in.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I'm an atheist, but I'd think the Pope has more biblical knowledge and wisdom than all combined on DP x100.

Yet you fail to see your admirAtion and point in saying such ignores his bias and his political agenda.
AND IT IS HIS POLITICAL AGENDA THAT HAS NO PART IN CHRISTIAN RELIGION.

While you only agree with his statement because it agrees with your lib/leftist ideology--as does he!!!--Tyr

[revelarts]

rev. As surprising as this may sound to you, coming from me. I am a Christian, and I have a heart that feels for the needy, the sick, and the lonely. But, I am also a Christian who believes in FOLLOWING THE LAWS.
If we openly, without blocking...allow EVERYONE to come into our country, because we are loving, caring people...Tell me. AT WHAT NUMBER DO WE STOP LETTING ILLEGALS INTO OUR NATION?
Should we allow everyone from around the World to simply find a way to come here, and not worry about any THREATS they might bring with them?
If you can give me a number....that would be a start.


Rev, you make a good case, and yes, as individuals we need to treat others with respect and help them out, as much as we can. Governments, however, have a duty to maintain orderly immigration and to protect the current citizens. Countries need to permit controlled immigration and should help refugees, but that doesn't mean they should permit uncontrolled immigration or an uncontrolled stream of refugees that might include terrorists. I think it is a political reality that the government actually has a duty to maintain control over the non-citizens entering the country. Not doing so invites ruin. Another unfortunate reality is that any country can only absorb so many refugees within a short amount of time. Trying to absorb too many, in a sudden wave, would really threaten the stability of the country.

In short - yes, Christians as individuals should be willing to welcome others, but governments still have to face some unpleasant realities before they allow open borders.

Good points overall but let me run one of them back at you with a different issue plugged in.
---as individuals we need to not have abortions. Governments, however, have a duty to maintain a low population without to many handicapped or mentality deficient.--


Yes i know it's not that stark. I'm just making the point that the line between our PERSONAL acts and the acts of the Gov't aren't 2 exclusive areas. there's real cross over in MOST issues. Christian compassion, integrity, fair treatment are virtues that extend into the gov't actions and the laws. Laws are EXTENSIONS of a society's morals and values. And for those that want us to be more of socalled "Christian Nation" we don't have to luxury of being able to divorce personal and gov't ideals. Sure there are different roles to perform but the overall principals should still apply in all venues, personal and gov't, seems to me.


But i don't think that the Bible teaches that countries have to allow EVERYONE to come in willy nilly.
as far as muslims are concerned from M.E. countries. why not go to your muslims brothers in Saudi Arabia etc. 1st. especially if you don't like western democracy and Islam believes Jesus is a "prophet" so his teaching of taking in the neighbor applies as well as it should to the U.S.. IF the Saudis are praying Five times a day and sending fighters INTO Syria they can take in refugees as well. If they are Shia they should go to IRAN or something 1st. Syrian Christian and secular refugees should be more welcomed in the west IMO, yes a religious test entry, their is a religious root so it's legit question.

As far as Mexican/South Americans go, Well i don't see that the bible says we can't have rules for entry. And we should be able to enforce those rules. However the "crime" of coming into the country doesn't mean they should be treated like crap... because it's the LAW. If you drive a truck without a license or hunts without a license, or even trespass on private property in order to work it IS breaking the law. But you still get treated like human being. OK fine it's the law. But the spirit of the reaction of some people is like crossing a boarder is HIGH CRIME, like beating Granny... when it's really not.
But IMO those that cross the boarder illegally and then steal, commit assault or other crimes of HARM should get oneway tickets out of the country ASAP don't pass go and never come back.

But those that are simply trying to make a living, without the proper "papers" . meh
I'm not as upset about that as i am with the big corps taking advantage of the "paperless" status to lure them here and treat them like crap with low wages etc. that undercuts the economy and fosters a continuing influx of an underclass.

[revelarts]

Do we not have enough poor folks to take care of already? Should we abandon them in favor of "foreigners", as Rev would apparently have us? Or is that money tree blooming now?

Also, treating foreigners already here "in our land" well, as the quoted Bible verses above say, is different from bringing new ones in.
Did I say it or does the Bible say it Abbey? c'mon.

I guess If there was no scripture for us to refer on any issues... political or personal... then if my opinion was to shoot them all on site ...because it's the law... that would be just as valid as someone who'd be willing to help or do something in-between.
if we're just going by personal opinions.

And Abbey you know that a lot of (most of?) the people crossing the boarder are Catholic or Pentecostals.
Are they your brothers and sisters in Christ as well?
And as far as helping OUR poor goes, well the scriptures talks about helping the native born AND the foreigners ...
It's not an -Either OR- it's a -BOTH AND-. And it never says we are to give MORE than we have, in fact it's just a percentage. while we keep most of it.

As far as taking people in goes,
well Ok what's the parable of the Good Samaritan even about then?

[happyrepublican]

The problem is, the people who are fleeing their war-torn disaster zones are wanting to import into their new homes the same poisonous ideology which turned their former homes into war-torn disaster zones.

It's nonsensical, and it should not be tolerated by any intelligent American.

[KarlMarx]

Why, because man says he does?

An atheist telling us who is a Biblical authority.... does anyone else see the irony of this?

[aboutime]

Did I say it or does the Bible say it Abbey? c'mon.

I guess If there was no scripture for us to refer on any issues... political or personal... then if my opinion was to shoot them all on site ...because it's the law... that would be just as valid as someone who'd be willing to help or do something in-between.
if we're just going by personal opinions.

And Abbey you know that a lot of (most of?) the people crossing the boarder are Catholic or Pentecostals.
Are they your brothers and sisters in Christ as well?
And as far as helping OUR poor goes, well the scriptures talks about helping the native born AND the foreigners ...
It's not an -Either OR- it's a -BOTH AND-. And it never says we are to give MORE than we have, in fact it's just a percentage. while we keep most of it.

As far as taking people in goes,
well Ok what's the parable of the Good Samaritan even about then?

Rev. There is a solution you have avoided here with all of the preaching, and telling everyone how WE should treat the needy, and the poor; plus those who are escaping from other nations to come here to the USA.
And, that solution should begin with YOU. Tell us now. How many strangers, needy folks, poor folks, and immigrants are you GIVING YOUR HOME TO RIGHT NOW?
We can all read the entire BIBLE 24/7, listen to the scriptures all the time, and condemn anyone who DOESN'T FOLLOW the teachings of the BIBLE.....Until...as you seem to be telling us....WE GIVE A PLACE FOR ALL OF THEM TO LIVE, under our roofs.
It's nothing but a matter of REALITY, compared with ACTUALITY. Which one are you practicing in REALITY????

[KarlMarx]

As far as refugees are concerned Biblically speaking there's NO GOOD ground to deny refugees.
The old and new testaments explicitly state that good nations should be kind to the foreigners who visit their country.
the law of Moses, Israel's legal system said as much.
And the prophets mentioned the mistreatment of foreigners as among the sins Israel committed.
However foreigners didn't get any special legal treatment. However, in general, they were often made up part of the "the poor". And as such were to be treated as such... with kindness.
Also because Israel was a tribal/religion based nation there were special land rights and religious rights to members of the tribe/religion. But even those could be granted to foreigners who became Jews. One example is Ruth.
Also the country's laws were never to change because of the foreign customs.

Exodus 22
“Do not mistreat or oppress a foreigner, for you were foreigners in Egypt."

Exodus 23
“Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt."

Leviticus 18
"But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things..."

Leviticus 19
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.

Leviticus 19
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 23
“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the Lord your God.’”

Deuteronomy 20
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 20
“Cursed is anyone who withholds justice from the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow.” Then all the people shall say, “Amen!”

Leviticus 24
You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 19
"Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God."

Leviticus 20
“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him.

Leviticus 25
“‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.


And parts of a parable Jesus gave.

Matthew
...When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?......I was a stranger. But you did not invite me in. I needed clothes. But you did not give me any. I was sick and in prison. But you did not take care of me.’...

Seems to me a lot of the anti-refugee, anti-illegal alien, anti-Mexican and anti-Muslim passion LACKS much biblical sentiment.


Render unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's and unto God those things that are God's.

Illegal aliens are breaking the law.The Bible does NOT say that nations do not have a right to enforce their sovereignty.

Righteousness exalts a nation.

We are not talking about refugees who are really fleeing persecution. This country has, does, and will in the future give refuge to those who are fleeing political persecution.

The Bible does not tell us to tear down our houses with our own hands, in fact, it says the opposite.

When the Israelites were given the land of Canaan to settle in, it was understood to be theirs. Foreigners were allowed in..... provided that they submitted to the Laws of Moses. In fact, the Bible warns the Israelites to have no dealings with foreigners lest they should corrupt them from following the Law.

Deuteronomy 7:3-5

Nor shall you make marriages with them. You shall not give your daughter to their son, nor take their daughter for your son. 4 For they will turn your sons away from following Me, to serve other gods; so the anger of the Lord will be aroused against you and destroy you suddenly. 5 But thus you shall deal with them: you shall destroy their altars, and break down their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images,[a (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+7#fen-NKJV-5117a)] and burn their carved images with fire.

The Laws of a nation, the rule of Law, is Biblical.. e.g.

Romans 13:1:

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

When Ezra and Nehemiah resettled the land of Israel after the Babylonian captivity, some amongst them had taken "foreigh wives"....

Ezra 2-4

2 Then Shecaniah son of Jehiel, an Elamite, responded to Ezra: “We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the surrounding peoples, but there is still hope for Israel in spite of this. 3 Let us therefore make a covenant before our God to send away all the foreign wives and their children, according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the command of our God. Let it be done according to the law. 4 Get up, for this matter is your responsibility, and we support you. Be strong and take action!”


Gideon in the Book of Judges. When the Israelites had done evil, God sent the Midianites to occupy their land and oppress them

Judges 6:1-2
Then the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord. So the Lord delivered them into the hand of Midian for seven years, 2 and the hand of Midian prevailed against Israel. Because of the Midianites, the children of Israel made for themselves the dens, the caves, and the strongholds which are in the mountains.

God chose Gideon to drive out the Midianites with 300 men.

And all throughout Judges, we see that the Israelites would turn to idolatry and, as punishment, an invading force would occupy their land.

So, sorry, there is nothing in the Bible that says a nation has no right to protect its sovereignty.