AG Sessions: 10,000 MS-13 Gang Members in USA

[jimnyc]

And another great attempt by Sessions. Hopefully he'll get as many thugs and gangs off the streets

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AG Sessions: 10,000 MS-13 Gang Members in USA; ‘We're Going After Them’

(CNSNews.com) – It's up to the State Department to designate MS-13 as a terrorist organization. But regardless of whether that happens, “We’re going after them,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions told Fox News’s Tucker Carlson Tuesday night.

Sessions said the nation’s top federal law enforcement officers held a meeting earlier on Tuesday to discuss ways of convicting and deporting those gang members who are in the U.S. illegally.

“We can devastate this gang. We’re going after them. We are not going to allow them to take over a block, a corner of our communities and terrorize people with this violence," Sessions said.

The attorney general said there are now some 10,000 members of the violent Salvadoran gang in 40 states.

“These are not geniuses,” Sessions said. “They are involved in the kind of activities that can be identified and they can be prosecuted.” He said with persistence, "we can devastate this organization, and that's going to be our goal.”

Rest here - http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/ag-sessions-10000-ms-13-gang-members-usa-were-going-after-them

[pete311]

Gangs have been a problem since the dawn of time. They ain't going anywhere because of a little operation.

[jimnyc]

Gangs have been a problem since the dawn of time. They ain't going anywhere because of a little operation.

So what then, ya think we should just ignore them? Or perhaps try and stop them or slow them down? Deporting them, arresting them, creating special teams, hiring more folks for those teams... All good and all good towards helping eliminate them, IMO. But you seem to find a way to complain about everything, even when positive steps are being taken to try and eliminate bad things.

[pete311]

So what then, ya think we should just ignore them? Or perhaps try and stop them or slow them down? Deporting them, arresting them, creating special teams, hiring more folks for those teams... All good and all good towards helping eliminate them, IMO. But you seem to find a way to complain about everything, even when positive steps are being taken to try and eliminate bad things.
It's political. AG making a show because of immigration. Meanwhile the crips, kings, zetas, aryan bros, 18th Street, mongols, mex mafia etc etc etc all get passes right? Gangs are an economic issue.

[jimnyc]

It's political. AG making a show because of immigration. Meanwhile the crips, kings, zetas, aryan bros, 18th Street, mongols, mex mafia etc etc etc all get passes right? Gangs are an economic issue.

So then when do they EVER fight back against gangs and such - to where you won't say it's political?

The others I can't speak for without research. I know there aren't getting a free pass, that's for sure. But I also can't say that they are going after any specifically like MS-13. But if political, why not just say they will be hiring people and making efforts to go after ALL of them? MS-13 is the most lethal, so why not start with them first?

[pete311]

So then when do they EVER fight back against gangs and such - to where you won't say it's political?

The others I can't speak for without research. I know there aren't getting a free pass, that's for sure. But I also can't say that they are going after any specifically like MS-13. But if political, why not just say they will be hiring people and making efforts to go after ALL of them? MS-13 is the most lethal, so why not start with them first?
We've been losing the fight since the beginning. New strategy needed. As long as there is severe economic struggle you can't fight your way to winning. Put a gang member in jail or deport him and another takes their place if the conditions in the community don't change. A holistic approach is needed.

[jimnyc]

We've been losing the fight since the beginning. New strategy needed. As long as there is severe economic struggle you can't fight your way to winning. Put a gang member in jail or deport him and another takes their place if the conditions in the community don't change. A holistic approach is needed.

Oh, I'm not saying that some new approaches may not be in order, and keep being in order until we can rid the world of all this crap. And like you pointed out, there are tons of gangs in addition to MS-13. I have no idea what the answers are - but I do know that we shouldn't give up or ignore them. Jail IS the answer for those that are criminals. Deportation IS the answer if one is a criminal and here illegally. But that should go whether in a gang or not.

[pete311]

Jail IS the answer for those that are criminals. Deportation IS the answer if one is a criminal and here illegally. But that should go whether in a gang or not.
If that is it, then it's a never ending carousel. A bigger and faster carousel solves nothing.

[jimnyc]

If that is it, then it's a never ending carousel. A bigger and faster carousel solves nothing.

Not true. It may cost money, and there may be more effective ways... but if they went out today, and arrested only ONE member, that's one less in the streets than yesterday. That's solved a tiny piece right there. The goal is MORE, and to prevent the gang from growing.

[pete311]

Not true. It may cost money, and there may be more effective ways... but if they went out today, and arrested only ONE member, that's one less in the streets than yesterday. That's solved a tiny piece right there. The goal is MORE, and to prevent the gang from growing.

And exactly what have we been doing the past 70 years? Are we winning yet?

[jimnyc]

And exactly what have we been doing the past 70 years? Are we winning yet?

Oh, well in that case, I say we just give up.

[pete311]

Oh, well in that case, I say we just give up.
If our sole strategy is incarceration and deportation then yeah, we might as well give up and save the money. It hasn't worked and will continue to not work. It ignores the root causes of gang's existence.

[jimnyc]

If our sole strategy is incarceration and deportation then yeah, we might as well give up and save the money. It hasn't worked and will continue to not work. It ignores the root causes of gang's existence.

The thing is - ALL the gangs are a problem. I think we would both agree with that, and both would agree that we should act to get rid of them the best we can. Again, "I" don't have the answers, but doing something is better than nothing, even if that something isn't a new way, and even if that something doesn't get rid of all of them.

I'm ALL for a different way. But I don't work there and they ain't gonna listen to you and I. But if they try different ways, and do better, or even worse, I'm open to that.

[pete311]

I'm ALL for a different way. But I don't work there and they ain't gonna listen to you and I. But if they try different ways, and do better, or even worse, I'm open to that.

They listen through your vote and well, you voted for a guy, who nominated a guy who has no new ideas.

[jimnyc]

They listen through your vote and well, you voted for a guy, who nominated a guy who has no new ideas.

Didn't you just claim it's been the same, like forever? And now you want to lay the blame on one person. :rolleyes:

And HOW do you know what his specific plans are?

Did Obama declare them a "terrorist" organization? That would of course allow them to do more. But I did not realize that they had that designation already, my bad.

"ways of convicting and deporting". In that meeting where they discussed this, what did they say would be the means they would achieve these goals, Pete?

[pete311]

Didn't you just claim it's been the same, like forever? And now you want to lay the blame on one person. :rolleyes:

I blame him for continuing a failed narrow approach.



And HOW do you know what his specific plans are?


He should let them be known or all we can do is judge what he tells.



Did Obama declare them a "terrorist" organization? That would of course allow them to do more. But I did not realize that they had that designation already, my bad.

"ways of convicting and deporting". In that meeting where they discussed this, what did they say would be the means they would achieve these goals, Pete?

I don't really know what this means. The root of gang violence is economics. Remove the current gang members and you create a vacuum that will be refilled. Community transformation is the only answer. Part of that is removal, but only part. Maybe a 1/3 but unfortunately removal is 100% of the plan.

[NightTrain]

What's your solution, Pete?

[pete311]

What's your solution, Pete?
Specifics are above my pay grade, but as I said, more holistic approaches to restore communities.

[NightTrain]

Specifics are above my pay grade, but as I said, more holistic approaches to restore communities.

Such as?

[pete311]

Such as?
Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.

[Black Diamond]

Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.
Maybe those in poor areas should stop getting 15 girls pregnant before running off.

[NightTrain]

Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.

All throughout history and with every system of governance that's been tried, there have been criminal gangs and dregs of society preying on upstanding citizens who follow the rules.

That means it's not a socioeconomic problem; it's simply human nature for some of our species to be murderous thugs.

Every single gang member made a choice, and I don't want to hear that old tired bullshit that someone didn't have a choice. Unless you got press-ganged onto a Pirate Ship, you had a choice and I can post many examples of those that chose not to be a thug and rose to greatness in this country in every area where gangs are prevalent.

I have a guaranteed 99.9% effectiveness solution, and it's the only way this will be solved - but you won't like it. Gang membership would plummet to zero overnight and every retard running around with face tatoos would flock to the laser removal centers.

Want to hear it?

I generally try to bring something to the table instead of complaining and pointing fingers at those that are actually trying to combat a problem.

[pete311]

That means it's not a socioeconomic problem; it's simply human nature for some of our species to be murderous thugs.


Just not true. It's easy to see gangs are located generally in poor inner cities. Where are the crips and bloods? Watts, compton, Westmont. Where are they not, Beverly Hills, Laguna Beach, Malibu.



Every single gang member made a choice, and I don't want to hear that old tired bullshit that someone didn't have a choice.


Not true again, many gangs especially MS-13 coerce kids into joining or they essentially die or a family member dies. So when you're 8 and surrounded by gang bangers who know where you live. Whatcha gonna choose? Then you get indoctrinated.

[NightTrain]

Just not true. It's easy to see gangs are located generally in poor inner cities. Where are the crips and bloods? Watts, compton, Westmont. Where are they not, Beverly Hills, Laguna Beach, Malibu.

Nice cherrypicking to ignore my point.

Explain why the gang problem has been consistent throughout history with every type of government. This isn't a problem unique to Watts, Compton and Westmont.


Not true again, many gangs especially MS-13 coerce kids into joining or they essentially die or a family member dies. So when you're 8 and surrounded by gang bangers who know where you live. Whatcha gonna choose? Then you get indoctrinated.

Not here in America. And I'm not interested in other country's problems.

[pete311]

Nice cherrypicking to ignore my point.

Explain why the gang problem has been consistent throughout history with every type of government. This isn't a problem unique to Watts, Compton and Westmont.


What was your point? I'm not arguing it has anything to do with a specific government.



Not here in America.

Yes it happens here.
http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/jaws/article_75b901bc-0fad-50ab-ac6d-53ae6caa7410.html

[NightTrain]

What was your point? I'm not arguing it has anything to do with a specific government.

It doesn't matter if there were no opportunity in the most despicable, horrid, oppressive, uneducated country - or all opportunity and free education in the richest nation, participating in the world's greatest economy ever witnessed - there are still gangs.

Thus, your statement is false :


Look at why people join gangs. No jobs, no education, nothing else to do, not loved, coercion. You don't find violent gangs in affluent areas. That doesn't mean affluent areas got all their gang criminals arrested. The conditions don't exist for them to thrive. Aka disrupt the conditions. As long as the conditions exist, gangs will exist. You can't incarcerate your way out of this.

Saying these gang members are the dregs of society because they never had a chance is bullshit - they DID have the opportunity to participate and chose the thug life anyway.

So, in countries where they didn't have these things, there are gangs. In countries at the other end of the spectrum, like ours, where they DO have them there are gangs.

It has been thus throughout history in every country.

Thugs are gonna thug.


Yes it happens here.
http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/jaws/article_75b901bc-0fad-50ab-ac6d-53ae6caa7410.html

No, it doesn't. "Princess" claims it's so with zero references. It's excuse-making for thugs and something a defense attorney would try to play for sentence mitigation.

[pete311]

It doesn't matter if there were no opportunity in the most despicable, horrid, oppressive, uneducated country - or all opportunity and free education in the richest nation, participating in the world's greatest economy ever witnessed - there are still gangs.

It doesn't have to do with the state of any country. There is poverty and affluence is every country. I don't understand your point.



Saying these gang members are the dregs of society because they never had a chance is bullshit - they DID have the opportunity to participate and chose the thug life anyway.


What does someone living in Alaska know about inner city Baltimore or Chicago?



So, in countries where they didn't have these things, there are gangs. In countries at the other end of the spectrum, like ours, where they DO have them there are gangs.

It has been thus throughout history in every country.

Thugs are gonna thug.


Huh? You saying there is a thug gene?




No, it doesn't.
Yes it does, prove it doesn't.

[NightTrain]

It doesn't have to do with the state of any country. There is poverty and affluence is every country. I don't understand your point.

Yes. The difference is that everyone has the same opportunity to move themselves upward here in America. Thugs choose not to.

Thugs are responsible for their life choices just as any other American is.


What does someone living in Alaska know about inner city Baltimore or Chicago?

Evidently a great deal more than someone living in Milwaukee, claims to be a small business owner and yet thinks socialism is grand, and votes liberal.


Huh? You saying there is a thug gene?

If you're not interested in discussing this intelligently and without snark, just say so.


Yes it does, prove it doesn't.

You made the claim, the onus is upon you to prove your assertion that MS-13 gang members are pressed into service right here in America.

Good luck with that.

[pete311]

Yes. The difference is that everyone has the same opportunity to move themselves upward here in America. Thugs choose not to.

Thugs are responsible for their life choices just as any other American is.



Evidently a great deal more than someone living in Milwaukee, claims to be a small business owner and yet thinks socialism is grand, and votes liberal.



If you're not interested in discussing this intelligently and without snark, just say so.



You made the claim, the onus is upon you to prove your assertion that MS-13 gang members are pressed into service right here in America.

Good luck with that.

I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I categorically disagree with you. Moving on.

[NightTrain]

I'm not going to waste my time anymore. I categorically disagree with you. Moving on.

Thinking logically instead of emotionally is infinitely better to understanding the world around us.