N. Korea sends missile into Sea of Japan

[Kathianne]

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-korea-fires-suspected-missile-into-sea-of-japan-raising-tensions/news-story/ce6f7975193180ad1bf1e0c468fe0a5f

This is so not good.

[sear]

President Trump has a tiger by the tail.

Even before NK's nukes, North Korea's artillery arrayed North of the DMZ is trained on Seoul, which would be razed to punish any attempt at regime change in NK.

China's ambivalent.
China's not stupid. NK is no bosom buddy.

BUT !!

If NK collapses, SK would be the likely successor; much the way West Germany now rules the re-unified Germany's.

And China doesn't want a Western friendly, prosperous nation like SK on that border. So China continues to prop up the Kim Jong dynasty of maniacs.

It was a Hobson's Choice before NK's nukes.
The nukes don't simplify it much. And during the campaign Trump revealed how profoundly ignorant he is about nuclear weapons.

- Candidate Trump advocated nuclear weapons proliferation in the Middle East.

- Candidate Trump (in debate iirc) didn't know what our nuclear triad is.

[gabosaurus]

[QUOTE=sear;862341
And China doesn't want a Western friendly, prosperous nation like SK on that border. So China continues to prop up the Kim Jong dynasty of maniacs.
[/QUOTE]
China IS a Western friendly, prosperous nation. China is this country's largest goods trading partner.
China does not really "prop up" North Korea. It tolerates NK because it doesn't want a flood of refugees at it's border.

[reedak]

President Trump has a tiger by the tail.

Even before NK's nukes, North Korea's artillery arrayed North of the DMZ is trained on Seoul, which would be razed to punish any attempt at regime change in NK.

China's ambivalent.
China's not stupid. NK is no bosom buddy.

BUT !!

If NK collapses, SK would be the likely successor; much the way West Germany now rules the re-unified Germany's.

And China doesn't want a Western friendly, prosperous nation like SK on that border. So China continues to prop up the Kim Jong dynasty of maniacs.

It was a Hobson's Choice before NK's nukes.
The nukes don't simplify it much. And during the campaign Trump revealed how profoundly ignorant he is about nuclear weapons.

- Candidate Trump advocated nuclear weapons proliferation in the Middle East.

- Candidate Trump (in debate iirc) didn't know what our nuclear triad is.

Commenting on your opinion that "China continues to prop up the Kim Jong dynasty of maniacs", I use the analogy of China being a fool embracing a zombie which continues feeding on his blood.

Actually North Korea is the greatest threat to China now. In my opinion, more than 90 percent of China is within the range of North Korean missiles. If North Korea succeeds to conquer South Korea one day, its next target would be China, particular the Chinese north-eastern region.

[Balu]

China IS a Western friendly, prosperous nation. China is this country's largest goods trading partner.
China does not really "prop up" North Korea. It tolerates NK because it doesn't want a flood of refugees at it's border.

I am sorry, but Tell me, Gabby, are you a natural blonde or you have your hair dyed? If you are dyed, then maybe you'd better get it repainted? http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/blush2.gif

[reedak]

China IS a Western friendly, prosperous nation. China is this country's largest goods trading partner.
China does not really "prop up" North Korea. It tolerates NK because it doesn't want a flood of refugees at it's border.

It is foolish for China to keep a blind eye to North Korea's growing nuclear threat on its doorsteps. Don't expect any peace in East Asia if North Korea succeeds to conquer the South. After that, North Korea will turn its attention to China. Then we may find the North Korean devil incarnate firing some nuclear missiles northward and westward.

Meanwhile North Korea seems to be eager to drag China into a nuclear war with the US. Using an analogy, instead of a man walking a dog, it is the rabid dog that walks its idiotic master towards the brink of an abyss. The North Korean devil incarnate is treating the Chinese leader not only as a paper tiger but an idiot.

[Balu]

It is foolish for China to keep a blind eye to North Korea's growing nuclear threat on its doorsteps. Don't expect any peace in East Asia if North Korea succeeds to conquer the South. After that, North Korea will turn its attention to China. Then we may find the North Korean devil incarnate firing some nuclear missiles northward and westward.

Are you fond of writing science fiction? Do you really think that NK are the refined suicides? Try to think about and compare the economic and military potential of China and NK and be curious to find out the Chinese population data and a number of personnel of their Army. May be then you'll change your mind. http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

[Balu]

If consider the situation with North Korea seriously, I think that what they are doing is to obtain the possibility to bite head off the most painful (and known for Japs) way against those who may want to bring 'the democracy' to them in their traditional way, seen before.
I am sure that should Yugoslavia had sufficient nuke arsenals and had means of its actual delivery to the objectives on the territory of the USA, the Americans would never dare to interfere into the internal affairs of that country by means of 'democratic bombing'.

[sear]

"China IS a Western friendly, prosperous nation." G #3

China is a populous communist nation potentially in awkward transition to something else, with some self-imposed roadblocks in its own way, including it's 100 year plan to dominate the globe. Hard-liner politburo members might easily stifle Western-style modernization of Chinese governance on basis it's switching horses in the middle of the stream.
As far as "a Western friendly, prosperous nation", not by Western standards. Instead China's population is mainly agricultural peasants, despite massive migration to China's prosperous cities.
It's probably more accurate to say China is a few very prosperous cities with nearly world-class modernity (with exceptions like Beijing's air quality), and China's vast geographic remainder, subsistence poverty. It's not just economics. There are so many dialects in China that in the hinterlands, peasants farming there may not be able to understand the spoken language of their Chinese brethren from two villages away. The politburo is reportedly currently addressing this.

"China is this country's largest goods trading partner." G #3

And China is reportedly North Korea's major trading partner as well. But North Korea needs China a whole lot more than we do.

"China does not really "prop up" North Korea." G

Ever hear of "the Korean War"? That thing from way back in the '50's?
Well guess what. It's also that thing from way back to an hour ago. Our Korean War never ended. And we have tens of thousands of troops at risk in the region; not an immaterial consideration in this dawn of NK's nuke & missile technology. And we are still at War!

"It tolerates NK because it doesn't want a flood of refugees at it's border." G

That's an important but incomplete point.
- Refugees from NK to China in the collapse of the Kim Jong regime would on per capita ratio be chump change to China compared to how Jordan and Germany are taking it on the chin from Syria, & elsewhere. Clearly China doesn't want it, and is fortifying its NK border to help prevent it. But it would be an inconvenience, not a disaster.

- The North Koreans are reportedly so chronically malnourished that they average about 4" shorter than their nearly genetically identical South Korean cousins. But the NK's are not merely stunted in stature. They're also stunted mentally, exposing China to risk of potentially decades of incompetents.

In any case, CLEARLY China prefers North Korea to South Korea, or "other arrangements" could have been made before NK detonated its first nuclear bomb. Or now.

"Actually North Korea is the greatest threat to China now." r #4

This is an interesting observation, but introduces complexity.

Let's use the swimming pool / gun example.
Some "soccer Moms" think allowing their children to play at the home of a gun-owning neighbor places her child at risk, BUT !! wouldn't hesitate to give that same child permission to play at the other neighbor's home which has no gun, but has a swimming pool.
The stats I've read indicate her child is safer in the home with the gun, than at the home with the swimming pool.

"Actually North Korea is the greatest threat to China now." r #4

There is a matter of "greatest threat", and there's a different matter of greatest perceived threat.
I won't challenge you observation about China's perceptions.
But do you really think those perceptions are reliable, accurate reflections of actual differential impact risk?

"It is foolish for China to keep a blind eye to North Korea's growing nuclear threat on its doorsteps." r #6

Correct.
But pot calls kettle black. China's handling it much the way the U.S. is in that regard, unless Trump has staged military action overnight that I'm unaware of. 5:AM radio news implies not.

[reedak]

Are you fond of writing science fiction? Do you really think that NK are the refined suicides? Try to think about and compare the economic and military potential of China and NK and be curious to find out the Chinese population data and a number of personnel of their Army. May be then you'll change your mind. http://s19.rimg.info/aee19e2775457d135efdf745e7d94e15.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1224821991.html)

My friend, let's take this analogy. If you happen to share a train wagon with one psycho who keeps firing his gun randomly through the window at anything outside the train, don't you feel that he is the greatest threat to you?
Now his gun is facing away from you, but there is no guarantee that he will turn his gun at you any moment. :gunner4:

[reedak]

If consider the situation with North Korea seriously, I think that what they are doing is to obtain the possibility to bite head off the most painful (and known for Japs) way against those who may want to bring 'the democracy' to them in their traditional way, seen before.
I am sure that should Yugoslavia had sufficient nuke arsenals and had means of its actual delivery to the objectives on the territory of the USA, the Americans would never dare to interfere into the internal affairs of that country by means of 'democratic bombing'.

Without the tacit support of China, North Korea would have been bombed to ashes by the US long ago.

[Balu]

My friend, let's take this analogy. If you happen to share a train wagon with one psycho who keeps firing his gun randomly through the window at anything outside the train, don't you feel that he is the greatest threat to you?
Now his gun is facing away from you, but there is no guarantee that he will turn his gun at you any moment. :gunner4:
You managed to describe the behavior of the USA very correctly.
The latest example - US will take action on Syrian chemical attacks if UN doesn't
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?58775-US-will-take-action-on-Syrian-chemical-attacks-if-UN-doesn-t

And this is in spite of the fact that there is no investigation proving who is guilty ( http://tass.com/politics/939645 ) and that the USA and their satellites intervened into the territory of the sovereign State - Syria, as the did in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya etc. So, the position of NK is evident and understandable if such a bandit State as the USA exist.

[reedak]

...the position of NK is evident and understandable if such a bandit State as the USA exist.

There is no need for North Korea to get hold of "a gun of its own", that is, using all its resources on nuclear missile programme. Instead, like Japan seeking protection under the US nuclear umbrella, North Korea could find security under the nuclear umbrella of China or Russia. Then it can use all its resources on economic development for the benefit of the country and people.

[LongTermGuy]

​North Korea is suicidal ...the war was never finished...soon it will be...enough talk...Not worried about China...

[reedak]

"Actually North Korea is the greatest threat to China now." r #4

This is an interesting observation, but introduces complexity.

Let's use the swimming pool / gun example.
Some "soccer Moms" think allowing their children to play at the home of a gun-owning neighbor places her child at risk, BUT !! wouldn't hesitate to give that same child permission to play at the other neighbor's home which has no gun, but has a swimming pool.
The stats I've read indicate her child is safer in the home with the gun, than at the home with the swimming pool.

You have used the wrong analogy. A drowning accident in a swimming pool at home is analogous to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster or the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster.

In this regard, I refer you to this news report. Over 30,000 people turned up for demonstrations in Tokyo to protest a plan being promoted by Japan’s prime minister to restart a number of nuclear power plants on March 26, 2016. This is analogous to the protest by the family members of a household against the reopening of a swimming pool at home in which a child has been drowned sometime ago.

A gun-owning neighbour is analogous to a nuclear state. It's all right and safe for you or anyone to live next to "a gun-owning neighbour" unless he behaves irrationally like the North Korean devil incarnate, threatening to turn his neighbour's home into “a sea of fire and a pile of ashes”, or he demands you to pay for a wall or a fence which he plans to build between his house and yours!

http://www.livescience.com/39961-chernobyl.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disaster

https://www.rt.com/news/337325-anti-nuclear-rally-tokyo/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/688140/north-korea-south-korea-united-states-thaad-anti-missle-sea-of-fire

http://www.newsweek.com/mexico-will-not-pay-donald-trumps-border-wall-president-says-548406

[Balu]

There is no need for North Korea to get hold of "a gun of its own", that is, using all its resources on nuclear missile programme. Instead, like Japan seeking protection under the US nuclear umbrella, North Korea could find security under the nuclear umbrella of China or Russia. Then it can use all its resources on economic development for the benefit of the country and people.
May be you don't know, but there is NO Treaty between NK and China and Russia as it is between the USA and Japan to put then under umbrella with all further consequences. So, your arguments are senseless. And NK have to act on their own considering the common behavior of the USA in other sovereign countries basing on their sureness of own exclusiveness.

[reedak]

May be you don't know, but there is NO Treaty between NK and China and Russia as it is between the USA and Japan to put then under umbrella with all further consequences. So, your arguments are senseless. And NK have to act on their own considering the common behavior of the USA in other sovereign countries basing on their sureness of own exclusiveness.

NO Treaty between NK and China? You haven't done your homework.

Under the 1961 treaty which is commonly referred to in China as the "China-North Korea military alliance treaty", especially Section II, China is obligated militarily to defend North Korea and vice versa.

Unless you are not a Russian but a North Korean residing in Moscow, you should be fully aware of the potential threat of a nuclear-armed North Korea to the Russian Far East.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea%E2%80%93Russia_relations

"The Russian news agencies were outraged when North Korea threatened to attack neighboring South Korea after it joined a U.S. led plan to check vessels suspected of carrying equipment for weapons of mass destruction. Another concern was that the nuclear test can be a threat to the security of Russia's far east regions which border North Korea."

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2016/11/197_210355.html

[Balu]

NO Treaty between NK and China? You haven't done your homework.

Under the 1961 treaty which is commonly referred to in China as the "China-North Korea military alliance treaty", especially Section II, China is obligated militarily to defend North Korea and vice versa.

You may remain at a level of "homeworks", I have no objections. But the time passes and the situation changes. First I would recommend you to read the sentences completely to understand the meaning.


May be you don't know, but there is NO Treaty between NK and China and Russia as it is between the USA and Japan to put then under umbrella with all further consequences.

This Treaty is already dead. There is no the military cooperation between China and NK at an extent it was at the moment of signing the Agreement in 1961. China does not provide unconditional support to North Korea as its ally, as the US does to Japan. And nowadays PRC, which by the early 90's had long embarked on the path of economic reforms and seriously revised its foreign policy priorities, and considered its partnership with the DPRK from purely pragmatic positions. It was no longer a question of defending an ideologically close regime from the encroachment of "world imperialism." One of the main foreign policy tasks of China was to ensure a "peaceful environment" along the perimeter of its borders, which was an important guarantee of successful modernization of the country. The DPRK was completely loyal to Beijing, but the conflict on the Korean peninsula or the collapse of the Pyongyang regime (which in the conditions of the catastrophic situation of the North Korean economy could be a likely scenario of developments) were seen as serious threats to the security of north-eastern China. An even greater threat would be China's involvement in the conflict on the side of the DPRK. And NK knows it perfectly well.
This is evident if you understand what is really happening but are not limited by surface browsing Wikipedia and other garbage without following the subject.
For your information there is an indefinite agreement between Russia and Iran from 1921 (read it, it's interesting), and so what?

[Gunny]

There is no need for North Korea to get hold of "a gun of its own", that is, using all its resources on nuclear missile programme. Instead, like Japan seeking protection under the US nuclear umbrella, North Korea could find security under the nuclear umbrella of China or Russia. Then it can use all its resources on economic development for the benefit of the country and people.N Korea pulls this crap every new US President. They want concessions. Here are some facts ... There is not a treaty between N and S Korea. The Korean war actually has not ended. The N Koreans would shoot at us whenever they thought it was cool. There is still a manned line at the 38th Parallel and a DMZ. WE, not S Korea Man that line.

Every time we get a new President The little dorks act up. I honestly doubt either Russia or China would back the idiot. It's not 1950 anymore. And trust me, we have enough firepower in the Sea of Japan to take that place off the map.

He wants money because his country is so ass-backward. He's following his daddy's lead. It's called rattling a sabre.

[darin]

If NKorea spent its resources on equipping and feeding its army it could be a real threat in a conventional fight. Otherwise? they are all bark.

[sear]

"If NKorea spent its resources on equipping and feeding its army it could be a real threat in a conventional fight." d #20

It reportedly does.

It's the non-combatants that have reportedly died by the millions, many having simply starved to death.

PBS just ran a documentary composed substantially of video smuggled out of NK.
One of the segments was on orphans, some as young as 8 years old, begging, pleading for money.
I don't speak much Korean, but the subtitle said they were begging for 10 cents.
I don't know what that translates to in the U.S.
But it was a horribly grim picture.
These are children that are living outdoors.
And one of the videos in the documentary was of the children huddled together trying to keep warm by a fire at night when the temperature was reportedly zero degrees.
I hope that was zero Centigrade, but either way, it is an exceedingly grim picture.

No need to fret about them though.
Assad is reportedly using nerve agent (suspected Sarin) on children even younger than that.

[darin]

It reportedly does.

It's the non-combatants that have reportedly died by the millions, many having simply starved to death.

PBS just ran a documentary composed substantially of video smuggled out of NK.
One of the segments was on orphans, some as young as 8 years old, begging, pleading for money.
I don't speak much Korean, but the subtitle said they were begging for 10 cents.
I don't know what that translates to in the U.S.
But it was a horribly grim picture.
These are children that are living outdoors.
And one of the videos in the documentary was of the children huddled together trying to keep warm by a fire at night when the temperature was reportedly zero degrees.
I hope that was zero Centigrade, but either way, it is an exceedingly grim picture.

No need to fret about them though.
Assad is reportedly using nerve agent (suspected Sarin) on children even younger than that.


It reportedly does not. Those in the know realize NK is a shit-storm with a loud voice.

[sear]

It reportedly does not. Those in the know realize NK is a shit-storm with a loud voice.
The raison d'être for the totalitarian North Korean regime is self-preservation.
It's not out the people's love for their "dear leader".
It's because they are compelled to do so in completely Orwellian fashion.

That's why the North Korean military gets priority over civilians:
from the budget
to the breakfast table.

War with North Korea - Military Embedded Systems (http://mil-embedded.com/guest-blogs/war-with-north-korea/)
mil-embedded.com/guest-blogs/war-with-north-korea
Apr 27, 2016 ... Their soldiers get fed first, before the civilian population, and they seldom ... The North Korean Army has more than 8,000 artillery pieces, 4,200 ...



Former soldier says 60% of North Korean military training is ... (http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&num=14403)
www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?cataId=nk00100&num=14403
Mar 9, 2017 ... Former soldier says 60% of North Korean military training is ... Their heads become hardened like rocks and they have difficulty adapting to civilian life. ... So does this mean that the military are a bit better fed than ordinary ...

[darin]

The NK army cannot maintain nor feed itself. It's a known fact in intel circles and not hard to find via google. They holler and scream every couple years. I'd put one US Brigade Combat team against 1 NK Division. US would have them destroyed in 48 hours I bet.

[Balu]

The NK army cannot maintain nor feed itself. It's a known fact in intel circles and not hard to find via google. They holler and scream every couple years. I'd put one US Brigade Combat team against 1 NK Division. US would have them destroyed in 48 hours I bet.
To conduct a war it requires a lot of economy strength. NK won't sustain alone.
As to underlined, if I were you, before saying so, I would have spoken with your Vietnam Vets. They know the subject not from Hollywood and Mass-media.

[darin]

To conduct a war it requires a lot of economy strength. NK won't sustain alone.
As to underlined, if I were you, before saying so, I would have spoken with your Vietnam Vets. They know the subject not from Hollywood and Mass-media.

I don't need to. I am connected.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

President Trump has a tiger by the tail.

Even before NK's nukes, North Korea's artillery arrayed North of the DMZ is trained on Seoul, which would be razed to punish any attempt at regime change in NK.

China's ambivalent.
China's not stupid. NK is no bosom buddy.

BUT !!

If NK collapses, SK would be the likely successor; much the way West Germany now rules the re-unified Germany's.

And China doesn't want a Western friendly, prosperous nation like SK on that border. So China continues to prop up the Kim Jong dynasty of maniacs.

It was a Hobson's Choice before NK's nukes.
The nukes don't simplify it much. And during the campaign Trump revealed how profoundly ignorant he is about nuclear weapons.

- Candidate Trump advocated nuclear weapons proliferation in the Middle East.

- Candidate Trump (in debate iirc) didn't know what our nuclear triad is.

And what did bill clinton do but help advance N. KOREA and its nuke program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?
What did the mighty dem messiah obama do but help them, while he insulted and alienated our allies(clever tactic , as you ignore all of that)?
Now suddenly you want to lay blame on Trump....
You are not very good at common sense, logical thinking and evaluating truth and history, are you?-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It reportedly does.

It's the non-combatants that have reportedly died by the millions, many having simply starved to death.

PBS just ran a documentary composed substantially of video smuggled out of NK.
One of the segments was on orphans, some as young as 8 years old, begging, pleading for money.
I don't speak much Korean, but the subtitle said they were begging for 10 cents.
I don't know what that translates to in the U.S.
But it was a horribly grim picture.
These are children that are living outdoors.
And one of the videos in the documentary was of the children huddled together trying to keep warm by a fire at night when the temperature was reportedly zero degrees.
I hope that was zero Centigrade, but either way, it is an exceedingly grim picture.

No need to fret about them though.
Assad is reportedly using nerve agent (suspected Sarin) on children even younger than that.

Giving you credit for using the word-- ""reportedly"" ..........-Tyr

[sear]

"The NK army cannot maintain nor feed itself." d #24

The Soviet Union could not feed or maintain itself, and no longer exists, as a direct result.

The North Korean military exists, nuclear weapons / missile programs and all.

So the disproof of your assertion is reality. The North Korean military IS maintaining and feeding itself.

Please do not infer more than I imply.

I'm not insisting every single troop in the NK mil is a 300 lb lard butt (like their commander in chef).
I'm not insisting each NK troop is issued their own luxury private Lear Jet and luxury yacht on military induction. They get preference. That's my assertion, based upon decades of reading about it.

"To conduct a war it requires a lot of economy strength. NK won't sustain alone." B #25

I'm not sure any competent U.S. military planners anticipate a sustained renewal of the current War.
The risk, the concern seems to be, how much damage could NK do before it's extinguished.

Seoul is within NK artillery range.
And now NK missiles place tens of thousands of U.S. military troops in Korea and Japan at risk, along with the assets of our important allies in the region.

"Now suddenly you want to lay blame on Trump...." TS

Please quote me.
You seem to have quoted most, or all of an entire post.
Which specific words, which exact concise assertion is it you allege I posted that renders legitimate your above-quoted accusation?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

"The NK army cannot maintain nor feed itself." d #24

The Soviet Union could not feed or maintain itself, and no longer exists, as a direct result.

The North Korean military exists, nuclear weapons / missile programs and all.

So the disproof of your assertion is reality. The North Korean military IS maintaining and feeding itself.

Please do not infer more than I imply.

I'm not insisting every single troop in the NK mil is a 300 lb lard butt (like their commander in chef).
I'm not insisting each NK troop is issued their own luxury private Lear Jet and luxury yacht on military induction. They get preference. That's my assertion, based upon decades of reading about it.

"To conduct a war it requires a lot of economy strength. NK won't sustain alone." B #25

I'm not sure any competent U.S. military planners anticipate a sustained renewal of the current War.
The risk, the concern seems to be, how much damage could NK do before it's extinguished.

Seoul is within NK artillery range.
And now NK missiles place tens of thousands of U.S. military troops in Korea and Japan at risk, along with the assets of our important allies in the region.

"Now suddenly you want to lay blame on Trump...." TS

Please quote me.
You seem to have quoted most, or all of an entire post.
Which specific words, which exact concise assertion is it you allege I posted that renders legitimate your above-quoted accusation?


OK, I WILL.... As I pointed out-you seek to lay blame and folly, UPON TRUMP WITH YOUR CLOSING SHOTS...
If you are not doing so- then perhaps make their meaning a bit more clear. I can wait...
HOWEVER, I WILL NOT PLAY YOUR MILLION SHADES OF GREY GAME NOR YOUR DELVING INTO THE INFINITE DEPTHS OF EACH AND EVERY WORD USED GAME.....

BELOW ARE THE TWO COMMENTS THAT I SPOKE TO AND ABOUT (hint: both are biased, attacking and accusatory)..-Tyr



- Candidate Trump advocated nuclear weapons proliferation in the Middle East.

- Candidate Trump (in debate iirc) didn't know what our nuclear triad is.

[jimnyc]

I say we just get rid of North Korea. What n the hell do they offer or contribute to the world, other than non-stop trouble and threats? Give them some alternatives, to have the little angry fat kid to bail and what not... but if they continue on course, nuke the place and start over. Maybe rename the place "Palestine" and give them nitwits a place to go and solve 2 problems at once!

[sear]

"HOWEVER, I WILL NOT PLAY YOUR MILLION SHADES OF GREY GAME NOR YOUR DELVING INTO THE INFINITE DEPTHS OF EACH AND EVERY WORD USED GAME....." TS #30

"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh
If you wish to misinterpret my posted words that's up to you. I endeavor to say what I mean, and mean what I say.

BELOW ARE THE TWO COMMENTS THAT I SPOKE TO AND ABOUT (hint: both are biased, attacking and accusatory)..-Tyr

- Candidate Trump advocated nuclear weapons proliferation in the Middle East.

- Candidate Trump (in debate iirc) didn't know what our nuclear triad is.

They're observations of fact.
If I said Trump's wife Melania was attractive, would you label that "accusatory"?
If I said Melania is the first U.S. First Lady to be born in a communist country, would you label that "accusatory"?

What's the difference?

Are they not both assertions of fact?

TS:
I thought you were smarter than this.
Are you genuinely this unable to differentiate reality from your own thin-skinned bias?