Observance will mark 1945 Japan bombing

[waterrescuedude2000]

A ceremony Sunday in Carson City will mark the date of the use of atomic bombs on Japan in 1945.

The Rev. Chuck Durante will lead the observance, including a 40-minute film, "Hiroshima: Repentance and Renewal," which discusses nuclear weapons and resistance to them from 1945 to today. There will be a discussion and prayer afterward.

"That's why I'm calling it an observance," Durante said. "There's time for reflection, for listening, for sharing and praying and for striving toward change."

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070803/NEWS15/708030437/1016/NEWS

Screw that they don't deserve our sympathy. If the little bastard wouldn't have attacked PEARL HARBOR then we wouldn't have attacked Hiroshima or Nagasaki. We fucked them up so what it made them think o.k maybe we don't want any more and they surrendered. Did they or did they not???

[red states rule]

Made in America

Tested In Japan

Ended a World War we did not start - but we did finish it

[waterrescuedude2000]

As I was editing my post you posted. I just hadn't finished I had to switch computers I'm at work right now

[red states rule]

As I was editing my post you posted. I just hadn't finished I had to switch computers I'm at work right now

The bottom line is, we ended a World War, saved many lives, and yet the PC wimps blame us for using the bomb

I am glad they are having this ceremony. Perhaps the towel head terrorists will pay attention and perhaps think about it

The US will use nukes to end a war

[waterrescuedude2000]

Drive down there its only 30 minutes from my house with a big sign that says
"If there wasn't a Pearl Harbor There wouldn't have been a Hiroshima or Nagasaki"

[red states rule]

Drive down there its only 30 minutes from my house with a big sign that says
"If there wasn't a Pearl Harbor There wouldn't have been a Hiroshima or Nagasaki"

How true

Japan is great at building cars - but they suck at finishing wars they start

[Kathianne]

How true

Japan is great at building cars - but they suck at finishing wars they start

Actually until WWII they'd been very smart in war making, once forced open by Perry.

[waterrescuedude2000]

How true

Japan is great at building cars - but they suck at finishing wars they start

I thought they were smart fuckers but to attack us was the dumbest thing they could have done. Even the dumb ass admiral who led the attack was quoted as saying "I fear all he did was awaken a sleeping giant." Yeah and then got your ass stomped by that giant.

[red states rule]

Actually until WWII they'd been very smart in war making, once forced open by Perry.

But they blew it by not attacking after Pearl Harbor. The West Coast was wide open and they failed to take advantage

Like Hitler, they failed to finish what they started. They went on trying to attck other areas and spread their resources to thin

[Kathianne]

But they blew it by not attacking after Pearl Harbor. The West Coast was wide open and they failed to take advantage

Like Hitler, they failed to finish what they started. They went on trying to attck other areas and spread their resources to thin

Pearl Harbor was stretching things for them, both regarding air force and oil. It was a Hail Mary to begin with and only our own stupidity allowed it to be the success it was.

[red states rule]

Pearl Harbor was stretching things for them, both regarding air force and oil. It was a Hail Mary to begin with and only our own stupidity allowed it to be the success it was.

It was part of their success

To give credit where credit is due, the attack plan was well planed and there were many changes made in the normal method of attacks

If they would have dropped bombs on the West Coast - who could say how Amercia would have responded

At least we did not have the modern day Defeatocrats running things in 1941

[waterrescuedude2000]

Bad intel actually. But regardless of it being a "success" I have trouble calling it that as we lost about 1200 brave men and women. But it still goes back to the fact that they did it. We returned the favor the point of war is to kill more of your enemy than he kills of you.

[red states rule]

Bad intel actually. But regardless of it being a "success" I have trouble calling it that as we lost about 1200 brave men and women. But it still goes back to the fact that they did it. We returned the favor the point of war is to kill more of your enemy than he kills of you.

It was a success form Japan's POV - and it was

They blew it by not pressing the attacks. While they did win several battles over America in the following 6 months (the US was losing badly) it was not until MIdway until the US won a battle over Japan

[waterrescuedude2000]

It was part of their success

To give credit where credit is due, the attack plan was well planed and there were many changes made in the normal method of attacks

If they would have dropped bombs on the West Coast - who could say how Amercia would have responded

At least we did not have the modern day Defeatocrats running things in 1941

Yeah bill or billary would have thanked them probably. They would have never done anything about it. The libs would rather fight the wars in our streets and see our civilians killed instead of enemy civilians

[Kathianne]

It was a success form Japan's POV - and it was

They blew it by not pressing the attacks. While they did win several battles over America in the following 6 months (the US was losing badly) it was not until MIdway until the US won a battle over Japan

They couldn't press the attack, that was the problem. Once the 'surprise' was gone, even the 'nearly' decimated Navy could take them on.

[red states rule]

Yeah bill or billary would have thanked them probably. They would have never done anything about it. The libs would rather fight the wars in our streets and see our civilians killed instead of enemy civilians

Yes, and I hate an all fish diet

[waterrescuedude2000]

We had better equipment and technologies back then. Now I don't know I have a friend that was born here in the states that teaches english there now. Some of the stuff they have I am jealous and wish we had.

[red states rule]

We had better equipment and technologies back then. Now I don't know I have a friend that was born here in the states that teaches english there now. Some of the stuff they have I am jealous and wish we had.

To crowded and way to expensive

and way to much fish on the menus

[waterrescuedude2000]

Dec 7, 1941 - Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor
Dec 8, 1941 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.
April 1942 - Japanese-Americans sent to relocation centers.
Aug 6, 1945 - First atomic bomb dropped, on Hiroshima, Japan.
Aug 9, 1945 - Second atomic bomb dropped, on Nagasaki, Japan.
Aug 14, 1945 - Japanese agree to unconditional surrender.
Sept 2, 1945 - Japanese sign the surrender agreement; V-J (Victory over Japan) Day.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/abomb2.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB162/index.htm

Took them a little over a week to figure out that their best bet was to surrender.

[red states rule]

Dec 7, 1941 - Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor
Dec 8, 1941 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.
April 1942 - Japanese-Americans sent to relocation centers.
Aug 6, 1945 - First atomic bomb dropped, on Hiroshima, Japan.
Aug 9, 1945 - Second atomic bomb dropped, on Nagasaki, Japan.
Aug 14, 1945 - Japanese agree to unconditional surrender.
Sept 2, 1945 - Japanese sign the surrender agreement; V-J (Victory over Japan) Day.

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/abomb2.htm

Took them a little over a week to figure out that their best bet was to surrender.

Six months after Pearl Harbor, we were losing to Japan. It was not until Midway until the US scored a victory we needed

I could see Kerry, Murtha, Pelosi, Reid, and Gore all telling FDR to redeploy to Alaska and seal our borders

[Hugh Lincoln]

It's funny, the difference between the Japanese and the Jews. One (proven) victim of violence today says almost nothing about it. The other (claimed) won't shut up about it. To look at WWII and its treatment, you'd think Jews were the only ones who suffered. But in fact, that's not true. Not even close.

[Trigg]

Sadly the bombing had to take place since Japan was willing, at the time, to fight to the last man.

[Said1]

Geo-politically, Pear Harbour made the most sense. I guess they though it was 1905 again with Germany as their 'friend'. What a bizzar allience.

[red states rule]

It's funny, the difference between the Japanese and the Jews. One (proven) victim of violence today says almost nothing about it. The other (claimed) won't shut up about it. To look at WWII and its treatment, you'd think Jews were the only ones who suffered. But in fact, that's not true. Not even close.

The Germans slaughtered the Jews for one reason - to steal their possesions

The Japanese were killed as an act of war

[actsnoblemartin]

hmm. It was sad but neccesary.


A ceremony Sunday in Carson City will mark the date of the use of atomic bombs on Japan in 1945.

The Rev. Chuck Durante will lead the observance, including a 40-minute film, "Hiroshima: Repentance and Renewal," which discusses nuclear weapons and resistance to them from 1945 to today. There will be a discussion and prayer afterward.

"That's why I'm calling it an observance," Durante said. "There's time for reflection, for listening, for sharing and praying and for striving toward change."

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070803/NEWS15/708030437/1016/NEWS

Screw that they don't deserve our sympathy. If the little bastard wouldn't have attacked PEARL HARBOR then we wouldn't have attacked Hiroshima or Nagasaki. We fucked them up so what it made them think o.k maybe we don't want any more and they surrendered. Did they or did they not???

[nevadamedic]

A ceremony Sunday in Carson City will mark the date of the use of atomic bombs on Japan in 1945.

The Rev. Chuck Durante will lead the observance, including a 40-minute film, "Hiroshima: Repentance and Renewal," which discusses nuclear weapons and resistance to them from 1945 to today. There will be a discussion and prayer afterward.

"That's why I'm calling it an observance," Durante said. "There's time for reflection, for listening, for sharing and praying and for striving toward change."

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070803/NEWS15/708030437/1016/NEWS

Screw that they don't deserve our sympathy. If the little bastard wouldn't have attacked PEARL HARBOR then we wouldn't have attacked Hiroshima or Nagasaki. We fucked them up so what it made them think o.k maybe we don't want any more and they surrendered. Did they or did they not???

:laugh2: Hiroshima and Nagasaki were big Barbecue's! :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

hmm. It was sad but neccesary.

It wasn't sad, what those Yellow Japs did at Pearl Harbor was sad. I think two nukes wasn's enough.

[nevadamedic]

It's funny, the difference between the Japanese and the Jews. One (proven) victim of violence today says almost nothing about it. The other (claimed) won't shut up about it. To look at WWII and its treatment, you'd think Jews were the only ones who suffered. But in fact, that's not true. Not even close.

I :salute: all the Jewish People!

[red states rule]

I :salute: all the Jewish People!

and today we have peace niks telling us not to worry about Israel or little Adolf Ahmadinejad in Iran

[red states rule]

Sat Aug 4, 1:02 PM

TOKYO - Sixty-two years later, the memory of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima still holds such a grip on Japan that its defense minister has had to resign simply for suggesting the attack was "unavoidable."

Now, in a sign of changing times, the task of spreading Hiroshima's message to the world has been entrusted to an American, a citizen of the country that dropped the bomb on Aug. 6, 1945.

Monday's anniversary comes just a month after Fumio Kyuma was forced to quit as defense minister for seeming to implying that the bombing was inevitable, because otherwise Japan would have gone on fighting and would have lost territory to a Soviet invasion.

Not so, says Steven Leeper, the first American to head the Hiroshima Peace and Culture Foundation. "Historically, that's not correct," he said in an interview, "And it's unbelievable that he said it."

Leeper shares the view of most Japanese: that Japan had already lost the war and that the bombing of Hiroshima, and of Nagasaki three days later, was wrong and unnecessary.

"Everybody knows on the left and the right that Japan was finished at the time the bomb was dropped," Leeper said.

Historically, the American justification was that the bombing ended the war and limited the number of U.S. military and Japanese civilian lives that would have been lost in a land invasion.

The Japanese perspective argues that Japan was already working on negotiating a peace treaty, as well as a surrender, and that the U.S. dropped the bomb to test its destructive power and to intimidate the Soviet Union.

Leeper says that rather than focus on fixing blame, Hiroshima needs to work to educate people in other countries about the effects of nuclear weapons.

The 59-year-old American has lived in both countries and says he became interested in disarmament issues when his translation company worked with bomb survivors. In 1999, he created the Global Peacemakers Association in Hiroshima, an organization that trains youth and elderly to travel abroad and speak about the bombings in Japanese and English.

Leeper says his appointment by Hiroshima Mayor Tadatoshi Akiba has been largely supported because he can bridge the language gap and foster a more "cosmopolitan" Hiroshima.

"There have been some people outside Hiroshima who have written letters complaining after my appointment got into the national press. But really very few," he said. "By far, it's mostly enthusiastic praise of the mayor for putting me here, and taking such a bold step."

His group has offered to send exhibits of survivor testimonies, films and educational posters to libraries, universities and museums across the United States. The city has collected photos, stories and video memories from more than 118,000 survivors.

Leeper said he will also use his translation skills to build nuclear weapons education programs in English and encourage relationships with international peace organizations.

He is working against time, noting that as time passes the number of survivors is dwindling and their largest organization "disbanded for lack of people." Survivors often lead the school groups that tour the peace park built on the wreckage of midtown Hiroshima.

"The survivors who are really healthy or active are mostly the ones who were very young children, or came into town later, so we don't have nearly as many who were right there to feel the blast," he said. "It's a problem for us."

The atomic bombing, the world's first, killed more than 140,000 people in Hiroshima. As they do on every anniversary, survivors, relatives of the deceased, residents and officials will attend a memorial service and release doves at the Peace Park at 8:15 a.m. Monday (7:15 p.m. EDT Sunday), the moment 62 years ago when the bomb struck.

The ceremony will take place near an arch-shaped cenotaph which holds 77 volumes filled with the names of those who perished.

http://www.comcast.net/news/international/asia/index.jsp?cat=ASIA&fn=/2007/08/04/731427.html&cvqh=itn_hiroshima

[waterrescuedude2000]

Hiroshima Peace and Culture Foundation And told them you attacked Pearl Harbor. You started it.

http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/waterrescuedude2000/

There is a screen shot of it..

[red states rule]

Hiroshima Peace and Culture Foundation And told them you attacked Pearl Harbor. You started it.

http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb184/waterrescuedude2000/

There is a screen shot of it..

and the US finished it. The way it should be

[waterrescuedude2000]

And they still havent responded I gave them my gmail adress. I read part of it and was seeing how against the us they are for us finishing the war. All kinds of sob stories about kids and innocents dieing. Well they can blame that on their own government for attacking pearl harbor.

[red states rule]

And they still havent responded I gave them my gmail adress. I read part of it and was seeing how against the us they are for us finishing the war. All kinds of sob stories about kids and innocents dieing. Well they can blame that on their own government for attacking pearl harbor.

You hear nothing about the war crimes the Japs did during the war, Mass kilings, rape rooms, their POW camps, and the murder of unarmed prisoners.

No, only the US was the bad guy in the war

[waterrescuedude2000]

You hear nothing about the war crimes the Japs did during the war, Mass kilings, rape rooms, their POW camps, and the murder of unarmed prisoners.

No, only the US was the bad guy in the war

I had heard about everything but the rape rooms. But it doesn't suprise me. The nazis used to make jewish girls prostitutes for soldiers in the camps.

[Black Lance]

It's funny, the difference between the Japanese and the Jews. One (proven) victim of violence today says almost nothing about it. The other (claimed) won't shut up about it. To look at WWII and its treatment, you'd think Jews were the only ones who suffered. But in fact, that's not true. Not even close.

Comparing those Japanese internment camps to Nazi concentration camps is simply idiotic.

[waterrescuedude2000]

I wouldnt go as far as saying idiotic. The japs did do bad stuff also. They aren't what I'd call innocent by a long shot.

[waterrescuedude2000]

Comparing those Japanese internment camps to Nazi concentration camps is simply idiotic.

The U.S. was the ones that called them internment camps. When we rounded up the japs. One of those camps is right by Los Angeles. Its about a 2 and a half hour drive from Palm Desert. I'm gonna make a side trip to see it. Will give me a chance to really test drive my brother in laws fancy cars

[red states rule]

I had heard about everything but the rape rooms. But it doesn't suprise me. The nazis used to make jewish girls prostitutes for soldiers in the camps.

So did they. Some women are suing over it, since they were forced to "serve' them

[Dilloduck]

Yeah bill or billary would have thanked them probably. They would have never done anything about it. The libs would rather fight the wars in our streets and see our civilians killed instead of enemy civilians

Insane hyper-partisan conjecture. *yawn*

[red states rule]

Insane hyper-partisan conjecture. *yawn*

It is true

The last things libs want is any good news from Iraq or hear about the progress being made. Thank God these defeatest were not around during WWII - the US would have lost the war

[Dilloduck]

It is true

The last things libs want is any good news from Iraq or hear about the progress being made. Thank God these defeatest were not around during WWII - the US would have lost the war

Please don't try to tell me what the Clintons would have done when faced with Pearl Harbor. BTW--who was President during WWII ?

[red states rule]

Please don't try to tell me what the Clintons would have done when faced with Pearl Harbor. BTW--who was President during WWII ?

The once proud party pf FDR and Truman have become a party of appeasers and defeatests

Even a Dem Congressmen admitted in an interview if the Sept report shows progress in Iraq it would be a problem for the Dems

[glockmail]

Bad intel actually. But regardless of it being a "success" I have trouble calling it that as we lost about 1200 brave men and women. But it still goes back to the fact that they did it. We returned the favor the point of war is to kill more of your enemy than he kills of you.


I don't think "The Bomb" had anything to do with Pearl Harbor. They were used because of the way the Japenese soldiers fought- to the death. It was feared a conventional attack on the mainland would end up just like string of small island battles. The Bomb gave Japan a shock and awe, and a chance to reaccess its attitude about that.

[red states rule]

I don't think "The Bomb" had anything to do with Pearl Harbor. They were used because of the way the Japenese soldiers fought- to the death. It was feared a conventional attack on the mainland would end up just like string of small island battles. The Bomb gave Japan a shock and awe, and a chance to reaccess its attitude about that.

An attack on the mainlad of Japan would cost have over 1 million lives by most estimates

As Truman said, how could he look into the eyes of the parents of a dead US soldier and tell them he could have dropped the bomb instead of invading Japan?

[red states rule]

Please don't try to tell me what the Clintons would have done when faced with Pearl Harbor. BTW--who was President during WWII ?

If todays Dems were running things on 12/7/41

[Dilloduck]

The once proud party pf FDR and Truman have become a party of appeasers and defeatests

Even a Dem Congressmen admitted in an interview if the Sept report shows progress in Iraq it would be a problem for the Dems

Please stop--you're embarrassing yourself.

[red states rule]

Please stop--you're embarrassing yourself.

How? By telling the truth about the left

Or do you deny the fact a Dem admitted a good report in Sept would be a problem for the Dems?


Clyburn: Positive Report by Petraeus Could Split House Democrats on War

By Dan Balz and Chris Cillizza
Washington Post Staff Writer and Washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Monday, July 30, 2007; 6:26 PM

House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Monday that a strongly positive report on progress on Iraq by Army Gen. David Petraeus likely would split Democrats in the House and impede his party's efforts to press for a timetable to end the war.

Clyburn, in an interview with the washingtonpost.com video program PostTalk, said Democrats might be wise to wait for the Petraeus report, scheduled to be delivered in September, before charting next steps in their year-long struggle with President Bush over the direction of U.S. strategy

Clyburn noted that Petraeus carries significant weight among the 47 members of the Blue Dog caucus in the House, a group of moderate to conservative Democrats. Without their support, he said, Democratic leaders would find it virtually impossible to pass legislation setting a timetable for withdrawal.

"I think there would be enough support in that group to want to stay the course and if the Republicans were to stay united as they have been, then it would be a problem for us," Clyburn said. "We, by and large, would be wise to wait on the report."

[KarlMarx]

here's another thing...

let's pretend that the Bomb was never dropped, ever...

what do you think they (the libs) would be beefing about today?

?
?
?
?


The genocide of the Japanese committed by the Allies during 1945 to 1947....

and you can take that one to the bank!

[red states rule]

here's another thing...

let's pretend that the Bomb was never dropped, ever...

what do you think they (the libs) would be beefing about today?

?
?
?
?


The genocide of the Japanese committed by the Allies during 1945 to 1947....

and you can take that one to the bank!

or how we should have sat down and reasoned with them - after all we had already won the war - we did not have to invade their country

and God forbid if any damage was done to the Emperor's residence becuase of our invasion - that was an insut to the people of Japan

[Dilloduck]

How? By telling the truth about the left

Or do you deny the fact a Dem admitted a good report in Sept would be a problem for the Dems?


Clyburn: Positive Report by Petraeus Could Split House Democrats on War

By Dan Balz and Chris Cillizza
Washington Post Staff Writer and Washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Monday, July 30, 2007; 6:26 PM

House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Monday that a strongly positive report on progress on Iraq by Army Gen. David Petraeus likely would split Democrats in the House and impede his party's efforts to press for a timetable to end the war.

Clyburn, in an interview with the washingtonpost.com video program PostTalk, said Democrats might be wise to wait for the Petraeus report, scheduled to be delivered in September, before charting next steps in their year-long struggle with President Bush over the direction of U.S. strategy

Clyburn noted that Petraeus carries significant weight among the 47 members of the Blue Dog caucus in the House, a group of moderate to conservative Democrats. Without their support, he said, Democratic leaders would find it virtually impossible to pass legislation setting a timetable for withdrawal.

"I think there would be enough support in that group to want to stay the course and if the Republicans were to stay united as they have been, then it would be a problem for us," Clyburn said. "We, by and large, would be wise to wait on the report."

You can't tell me "truth" about how the Clintons would have handled WWII by comparing those events to today--it's absurd.

[red states rule]

You can't tell me "truth" about how the Clintons would have handled WWII by comparing those events to today--it's absurd.

Given how they are "standing up" to our enemies today - why would they have done anything different back then?

[dan]

What's the problem with reflecting on a terrible, but necessary, thing that happpened? Simply noting that it happened and having some respect for the innocent who died isn't some kind of tearing-down of America.

[red states rule]

What's the problem with reflecting on a terrible, but necessary, thing that happpened? Simply noting that it happened and having some respect for the innocent who died isn't some kind of tearing-down of America.

The kook left makes it into a tearing-down-of Amercia.

We are the bad guys for ending a war we did not start

[dan]

But, nothing in the original article makes any mention of the left doing that.

[red states rule]

But, nothing in the original article makes any mention of the left doing that.

It still happens - here is one example when teh Enola Gay was put into a war museum


Atomic bomb victims protest against Enola Gay (Dent Plane)

VIRGINIA – Grief stricken Hiroshima survivors yesterday confronted the newly restored Enola Gay, the American plane that dropped the world's first atomic bomb.

Six survivors and about 50 peace activists visited a new museum, where the restored Boeing B-29 Superfortress has just gone on public display, holding pictures of hideously burned victims among tens of thousands killed or injured by the 1945 blast.

Two men were arrested after a bottle of red paint, meant to symbolise blood, was thrown, denting a panel on one side of the plane – parked in a new annex to the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum.

One was charged with destruction of property, while the other faces loitering charges, police said.

"This is the second time I have seen the Enola Gay," said Hiroshima survivor Minoru Nishino, 71, who was two kilometres from the centre of the blast, and still bears the scars.

"The first time was on August 6, 1945, when I saw it flying high in the sky," he said.

"When I saw the Enola Gay today, I was overcome by anger."

Another survivor, Tamiko Tomonaga, 74, said she had travelled from Japan in memory of the dead.

But their act of remembrance beside the plane, was too much for some museum visitors, who angrily chanted "Remember Pearl Harbor" and "What about the Nanjing massacre?" referring to actions of imperial Japanese forces.

"My dad fought in the war – go home," shouted another man.

Fifty-eight years after the Hiroshima bombing, and a second atom bomb strike on Nagasaki, opinion in the US on the first nuclear strikes is still sharply divided.

Survivors are disappointed the plane is being displayed with no reference to casualty figures at Hiroshima.

"We would not mind the plane going on display if they showed the tragedy they caused," said Ms Tomonaga, a Red Cross nurse at the time of the bombing.

The Enola Gay bears a label describing it as the "most sophisticated propeller-driven bomber of World War II".

The text mentions the technological prowess of the aircraft and how it "found its niche on the other side of the globe".

"On August 6, 1945, this Martin-built B-29-45-MO dropped the first atomic weapon used in combat on Hiroshima, Japan."

"They (Japan) started the war by bombing our servicemen in Pearl Harbor. They should go and stand on the deck of the Arizona," said one man referring to a US ship sunk in the raid, now a memorial.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1041578/posts

[Gaffer]

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor for the purpose of crippling our fleet. The main plan was to catch our carriers in port. They were far over stretched to make any kind of assault on Hawaii. It was designed to keep the US bottled up protecting its territory in that part of the pacific. Their main objectives were the Philippines and the islands of the south pacific. They needed resources. They were a warrior society with an emperor/god. Similar to islam they believed to die for the emperor was a ticket to heaven. Which inspired the terrific defense of the islands taken by the US on their march to Japan.

When 25 thousand soldiers are defending an island and less than a hundred prisoners are taken after capturing kind of tells you the mind set of the Japanese in those days. It was that mind set that led to the atomic bombs being used. It saved the lives of a million allied soldiers and countless millions of Japanese.

The Jews in Germany were scape goats for Hitler. He blamed them for Germany's surrender after WW1, and like all dictators needed someone to blame in order to build a power base and turn scrutiny from himself and what he was actually doing. The Jews were convenient for this purpose. If not them it would have been some other groups. Gypsies were targeted as much as Jews but they did not have the riches the Jews did. Nor were they in any positions of power. They could not be blamed for all Germany's woes,

The history of WW2 is long, complicated, and interwoven with multiple causes. What you learn in school is just a scratching of the surface. It's not a simple matter of they attacked us and we kicked their ass. There are cause and effect issues.You really need to do some deep research into it to understand what was really going on.

As for todays issues. I don't believe we have anywhere near a congress or a presidency that is prepared to do what was done in WW2. Nor do we have a country willing to sacrifice the way they did. Willing to do the necessary things that need to be done no matter what. Being harsh and cruel when necessary. We have a touchy feelly, feel good about yourself society today that will never truly stand up for itself until something really horrible happens and creates the kind of anger that Pearl Harbor produced. Even the WTC did not produce the anger needed to truly fight this war. It angered people but didn't inspire the revenge spirit needed to conduct an all out war.

[red states rule]

Japan attacked Pearl Harbor for the purpose of crippling our fleet. The main plan was to catch our carriers in port. They were far over stretched to make any kind of assault on Hawaii. It was designed to keep the US bottled up protecting its territory in that part of the pacific. Their main objectives were the Philippines and the islands of the south pacific. They needed resources. They were a warrior society with an emperor/god. Similar to islam they believed to die for the emperor was a ticket to heaven. Which inspired the terrific defense of the islands taken by the US on their march to Japan.

When 25 thousand soldiers are defending an island and less than a hundred prisoners are taken after capturing kind of tells you the mind set of the Japanese in those days. It was that mind set that led to the atomic bombs being used. It saved the lives of a million allied soldiers and countless millions of Japanese.

The Jews in Germany were scape goats for Hitler. He blamed them for Germany's surrender after WW1, and like all dictators needed someone to blame in order to build a power base and turn scrutiny from himself and what he was actually doing. The Jews were convenient for this purpose. If not them it would have been some other groups. Gypsies were targeted as much as Jews but they did not have the riches the Jews did. Nor were they in any positions of power. They could not be blamed for all Germany's woes,

The history of WW2 is long, complicated, and interwoven with multiple causes. What you learn in school is just a scratching of the surface. It's not a simple matter of they attacked us and we kicked their ass. There are cause and effect issues.You really need to do some deep research into it to understand what was really going on.

As for todays issues. I don't believe we have anywhere near a congress or a presidency that is prepared to do what was done in WW2. Nor do we have a country willing to sacrifice the way they did. Willing to do the necessary things that need to be done no matter what. Being harsh and cruel when necessary. We have a touchy feelly, feel good about yourself society today that will never truly stand up for itself until something really horrible happens and creates the kind of anger that Pearl Harbor produced. Even the WTC did not produce the anger needed to truly fight this war. It angered people but didn't inspire the revenge spirit needed to conduct an all out war.

Bottom line is, libs think they can fight and win a PC war

It can't be done and it never will be done

[Black Lance]

The U.S. was the ones that called them internment camps. When we rounded up the japs. One of those camps is right by Los Angeles. Its about a 2 and a half hour drive from Palm Desert. I'm gonna make a side trip to see it. Will give me a chance to really test drive my brother in laws fancy cars

Yes, my point is simply that comparing these internment camps to Nazi concentration camps is ridiculous.

[red states rule]

Yes, my point is simply that comparing these internment camps to Nazi concentration camps is ridiculous.

There are some idiots who think the Holocaust never happened

[Black Lance]

There are some idiots who think the Holocaust never happened

There are also a few, mostly liberals, who will bring up the internment camps and describe them as "American concentration camps". Some idiots will believe anything that suits their agenda, I guess.

[red states rule]

There are also a few, mostly liberals, who will bring up the internment camps and describe them as "American concentration camps". Some idiots will believe anything that suits their agenda, I guess.

and those same idiots want us to sit with the 2007 version of Hitler - the Pres of Iran (who also denies the Holocaust happened)

[Black Lance]

and those same idiots want us to sit with the 2007 version of Hitler - the Pres of Iran (who also denies the Holocaust happened)

Basically, although I'm not sure what he has in common with Hitler beyond anti-semitism.

[red states rule]

Basically, although I'm not sure what he has in common with Hitler beyond anti-semitism.

Thrist for power, world conquest, hate for the Jews, and his beliefs should be everyone elses

[Black Lance]

Thrist for power, world conquest, hate for the Jews, and his beliefs should be everyone elses

The first and fourth on that list are pretty standard features of human nature, and I've already given you the second. When has Ahmenijad said he wants to conquer the world?

[glockmail]

An attack on the mainlad of Japan would cost have over 1 million lives by most estimates

As Truman said, how could he look into the eyes of the parents of a dead US soldier and tell them he could have dropped the bomb instead of invading Japan? The bomb saved lives on both sides. It shocked the Emporer into realizing that he could not win the war. Without it, due to the insect menatlity of the Japenese troops instilled on them by the Emporer, we would have had to land and kill everthing in our path, all the way to Tokyo, and track him down.

[red states rule]

The first and fourth on that list are pretty standard features of human nature, and I've already given you the second. When has Ahmenijad said he wants to conquer the world?

If he gets nuks he will want to destory anyone who stands in his way. I really do see him as the 2007 version of Hitler

He is a very serious threat

[glockmail]

The first and fourth on that list are pretty standard features of human nature, and I've already given you the second. When has Ahmenijad said he wants to conquer the world? Its in the Koran that Islam will concour the world, and Ahmenijad is simply following hs religion.

[red states rule]

Its in the Koran that Islam will concour the world, and Ahmenijad is simply following hs religion.

There motto - Convert or Die

[Hagbard Celine]

There are also a few, mostly liberals, who will bring up the internment camps and describe them as "American concentration camps". Some idiots will believe anything that suits their agenda, I guess.


In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership",[6] and beginning in 1990, the government paid reparations to surviving internees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Even conservative archetype, Ronald Reagan saw the need for an apology. Obviously, the American camps didn't exterminate Japanese like the Nazi camps did to the Jews, but you can't deny the parallels.

[red states rule]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Even conservative archetype, Ronald Reagan saw the need for an apology. Obviously, the American camps didn't exterminate Japanese like the Nazi camps did to the Jews, but you can't deny the parallels.

Libs are big on saying they are sorry for things they had no control over and were not even around when the incident happened

It is all to make the libs feel good all over - and never accomplishes anything. Situation normal for the left

[Black Lance]

If he gets nuks he will want to destory anyone who stands in his way. I really do see him as the 2007 version of Hitler

He is a very serious threat

But Ahmenijhad is not the dictator of Iran. He can't launch nukes on his own authority, and there are leveler heads in Tehran. Besides, isn't having your country reduced to a radioactive wasteland something that needs to be avoided if your goal is to conquer the world?

[Black Lance]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Even conservative archetype, Ronald Reagan saw the need for an apology. Obviously, the American camps didn't exterminate Japanese like the Nazi camps did to the Jews, but you can't deny the parallels.

Do tell, Hagbard, what are the parallels?

[red states rule]

But Ahmenijhad is not the dictator of Iran. He can't launch nukes on his own authority, and there are leveler heads in Tehran. Besides, isn't having your country reduced to a radioactive wasteland something that needs to be avoided if your goal is to conquer the world?

One would have thought Hitler would have found a way to stop Europe from being destroyed in late 1943 and find a way to call a truce with the allies

These nuts do not think like the rest of us

[Hagbard Celine]

Libs are big on saying they are sorry for things they had no control over and were not even around when the incident happened

It is all to make the libs feel good all over - and never accomplishes anything. Situation normal for the left

Reagan signed the legislation. He was not a "lib."

[red states rule]

Reagan signed the legislation. He was not a "lib."

And those who actually suffered losses in the camps were paid. Reagan did try to work with libs on some issues

Libs now want to say they are sorry for slavery - and what is next - payments to people who were never slaves?

[Black Lance]

One would have thought Hitler would have found a way to stop Europe from being destroyed in late 1943 and find a way to call a truce with the allies

These nuts do not think like the rest of us

You would have to be completely out of touch with reality to think that your country, a second rate power which has just been bombarded with nuclear weapons, is somehow going to rise up from the radioactive ashes and proceed to conquer the rest of the undamaged world. Ahmenijhad isn't exactly the brightest of light bulbs, but I doubt that he could function effectively as PM if he was ready for the asylum.

[Black Lance]

And those who actually suffered losses in the camps were paid. Reagan did try to work with libs on some issues

Libs now want to say they are sorry for slavery - and what is next - payments to people who were never slaves?

Actually they already proposed that. See "African Reparations Movement".

[red states rule]

Actually they already proposed that. See "African Reparations Movement".

Show me one person who was a real slave in the mid 1800's and I will give them my money as payment

[red states rule]

You would have to be completely out of touch with reality to think that your country, a second rate power which has just been bombarded with nuclear weapons, is somehow going to rise up from the radioactive ashes and proceed to conquer the rest of the undamaged world. Ahmenijhad isn't exactly the brightest of light bulbs, but I doubt that he could function effectively as PM if he was ready for the asylum.

Berlin looked like it was nuked when the war was over

These people do not think they can be beaten - they are being driven by their Religion not logic and common sense

[Gaffer]

But Ahmenijhad is not the dictator of Iran. He can't launch nukes on his own authority, and there are leveler heads in Tehran. Besides, isn't having your country reduced to a radioactive wasteland something that needs to be avoided if your goal is to conquer the world?

He follows the orders of the ayatollah. And he has declared publicly that the lost of iran or even most of the middle east is acceptable in their spread of islam through the world. This is not a cold war scenario. They are religious fanatics that don't care what happens to them or anyone else.

[red states rule]

He follows the orders of the ayatollah. And he has declared publicly that the lost of iran or even most of the middle east is acceptable in their spread of islam through the world. This is not a cold war scenario. They are religious fanatics that don't care what happens to them or anyone else.

At least Israel is not bothered about trying to reason with him, and they will not think twice about taking the little bastard out and his nukes

[glockmail]

But Ahmenijhad is not the dictator of Iran. He can't launch nukes on his own authority, and there are leveler heads in Tehran. Besides, isn't having your country reduced to a radioactive wasteland something that needs to be avoided if your goal is to conquer the world? His goal is to see Allah, and thinks nuking Israel will get him there. MAD is nonsense for these people.

[red states rule]

His goal is to see Allah, and thinks nuking Israel will get him there. MAD is nonsense for these people.

If he wants to see Allah, I say the US military arranges the introduction ASAP

[Black Lance]

If he wants to see Allah, I say the US military arranges the introduction ASAP

That's what I've always thought as well. If Bin Laden really wanted to be a martyr why doesn't he just contact the US military and let them know where he is hiding? I'm sure we could accamodate him.

[Black Lance]

His goal is to see Allah, and thinks nuking Israel will get him there. MAD is nonsense for these people.

There are faster ways to meet Allah than to develop nukes over the course of a decade.

[Black Lance]

He follows the orders of the ayatollah. And he has declared publicly that the lost of iran or even most of the middle east is acceptable in their spread of islam through the world. This is not a cold war scenario. They are religious fanatics that don't care what happens to them or anyone else.

He has declared it, but do you think he meant it? Besides, I don't think that nuking Israel is going help spread Islam.

[Black Lance]

Berlin looked like it was nuked when the war was over

These people do not think they can be beaten - they are being driven by their Religion not logic and common sense

If he was as illogical as you are suggesting he couldn't run an effective government. The Iranians require monitoring, there is no doubt about that, but I'm much more concerned about them handing off a nuke to Hamas or Islamic Jihad than I am about the Iranians launching such weapons themselves.

[Kathianne]

If he was as illogical as you are suggesting he couldn't run an effective government. The Iranians require monitoring, there is no doubt about that, but I'm much more concerned about them handing off a nuke to Hamas or Islamic Jihad than I am about the Iranians launching such weapons themselves.

Does utilizing a surrogate protect one?

[red states rule]

He has declared it, but do you think he meant it? Besides, I don't think that nuking Israel is going help spread Islam.

Invading Poland did not help spread Nazism - yet the world stood by and did very little

[Black Lance]

Invading Poland did not help spread Nazism - yet the world stood by and did very little

The purpose of invading Poland was not to spread Nazism.

[red states rule]

The purpose of invading Poland was not to spread Nazism.

Oh?

They expanded their power, stole their resources, and mirdered the Jews. Sounds like spreading Nazism to me

[Black Lance]

Does utilizing a surrogate protect one?

It shouldn't, but it sometimes does. I'm really not worried about the Iranians going crazy and launching nukes themselves, but I consider much more the serious the possibility that Tehran might choose to hand off a nuclear weapon to Hamas and then try to disavow responsibillity.

[Dilloduck]

A democratic president signed off on nuking Japan (and firebombing the hell out of city after city causing way more deaths and destruction than the nukes ). Quit trying to scapegoat liberals for WWII (like Hitler did the Jews). You're turning a major event in history into a silly ass partisan shit slinging opportunity. It's disgusting. Actually if you wanna compare the two as of right now, I would say the Democrats did a much better job of taking it to the enemy than the Republicans are today.

[red states rule]

A democratic president signed off on nuking Japan (and firebombing the hell out of city after city causing way more deaths and destruction than the nukes ). Quit trying to scapegoat liberals for WWII (like Hitler did the Jews). You're turning a major event in history into a silly ass partisan shit slinging opportunity. It's disgusting. Actually if you wanna compare the two as of right now, I would say the Democrats did a much better job of taking it to the enemy than the Republicans are today.

The FDR and Truman Dems would be with Pres Bush on this war on terror

Todays Dems are for appeasement and surrender

[glockmail]

There are faster ways to meet Allah than to develop nukes over the course of a decade. So? This guy sees himself as more than a body bomb. Maybe he wants more than 72 virgins. Maybe he wants 72 hot naked teenage ones.

[Black Lance]

So? This guy sees himself as more than a body bomb. Maybe he wants more than 72 virgins. Maybe he wants 72 hot naked teenage ones.

I don't know of any Islamic text that promises bonus virgins in proportion to the number of infidels you kill.

[Black Lance]

Oh?

They expanded their power, stole their resources, and mirdered the Jews. Sounds like spreading Nazism to me

I see, you mean "spreading the ideology" at the point of a gun as opposed to winning converts.

Again, a course of action that would result in reducing Iran to the worlds largest piece of radioactive glass would probably preclude any subsequent offensive manuvers being performed by the Iranian military.

[glockmail]

I don't know of any Islamic text that promises bonus virgins in proportion to the number of infidels you kill.So what? The guy clearly sees himself above a mere body bomber.

[red states rule]

I see, you mean "spreading the ideology" at the point of a gun as opposed to winning converts.

Again, a course of action that would result in reducing Iran to the worlds largest piece of radioactive glass would probably preclude any subsequent offensive manuvers being performed by the Iranian military.

We are not forcing them to vote, write their Constitution, and vote on what they want

[Gaffer]

He has declared it, but do you think he meant it? Besides, I don't think that nuking Israel is going help spread Islam.

He very definitely means it. Of course he has a nice safe bunker all set up for himself. Where he can ride out the retaliation. He's willing to sacrifice anyone else.

Once he has nukes he will definitely hand them off to hamas and hezbollah. And he will use the rest to intimidate his neighbors and create his caliphate.

[red states rule]

He very definitely means it. Of course he has a nice safe bunker all set up for himself. Where he can ride out the retaliation. He's willing to sacrifice anyone else.

Once he has nukes he will definitely hand them off to hamas and hezbollah. And he will use the rest to intimidate his neighbors and create his caliphate.

Much like Hitler in his bunker as his capital was bombed into the stone age

[Dilloduck]

He very definitely means it. Of course he has a nice safe bunker all set up for himself. Where he can ride out the retaliation. He's willing to sacrifice anyone else.

Once he has nukes he will definitely hand them off to hamas and hezbollah. And he will use the rest to intimidate his neighbors and create his caliphate.

Where is this bunker?

[Gaffer]

Where is this bunker?

In your back yard. I'll wait here while you go look for it.

[Black Lance]

So what? The guy clearly sees himself above a mere body bomber.

But if his goal is to take over the world and force us all to convert to Islam he needs not only to be alive himself, he also needs for his country to survive to invade other countries. Getting nuked back into the stone ages doesn't allow for that.

[Black Lance]

We are not forcing them to vote, write their Constitution, and vote on what they want

Correct, we are not trying to force the Iranians to do anything except not fund terrorism and not develop nukes, but what's the connection between that and what I said?

[Black Lance]

He very definitely means it. Of course he has a nice safe bunker all set up for himself. Where he can ride out the retaliation. He's willing to sacrifice anyone else.

Once he has nukes he will definitely hand them off to hamas and hezbollah. And he will use the rest to intimidate his neighbors and create his caliphate.

The hamas/hezbollah thing is a serious issue, but again, I just don't see how the Iranians launching anything themselves would contribute to their regional goals. Building a caliphate out of Tehran requires that there actually be a Tehran.

[waterrescuedude2000]

I don't think "The Bomb" had anything to do with Pearl Harbor. They were used because of the way the Japanese soldiers fought- to the death. It was feared a conventional attack on the mainland would end up just like string of small island battles. The Bomb gave Japan a shock and awe, and a chance to reaccess its attitude about that.

So if they wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor. Do you think the US and England would have declared war on them??? I doubt it personally. So either directly or indirectly it did play a role in the bombings in my opinion anyways. Because had they not attacked we probably wouldn't have been in a war with them, hence had we not been in a war we would not have bombed them

[glockmail]

But if his goal is to take over the world and force us all to convert to Islam he needs not only to be alive himself, he also needs for his country to survive to invade other countries. Getting nuked back into the stone ages doesn't allow for that. That's his goal but he doesn't plan on being alive to see it. Furthering Allah's goal will get him his 72 hot tennage virgins.

[glockmail]

So if they wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor. Do you think the US and England would have declared war on them??? I doubt it personally. So either directly or indirectly it did play a role in the bombings in my opinion anyways. Because had they not attacked we probably wouldn't have been in a war with them, hence had we not been in a war we would not have bombed them I can't disagree with that. My point is that the decision to use the bomb was based on our experience fighting the Japanese soldier. He was a formidable enemy that would rather commit suicide then give up. With an enemy like that you have to change tactics. A strategy that works with self-preservationist Europeans doesn't necessarily work with do-or-die Japanese. We had to threaten not just individual's lives to convince them to give up but an entire race. It wasn't until the Emperor realized that we had the power to annihilate an entire race of people did he start to think of alternatives to his original plan.

[Gaffer]

The hamas/hezbollah thing is a serious issue, but again, I just don't see how the Iranians launching anything themselves would contribute to their regional goals. Building a caliphate out of Tehran requires that there actually be a Tehran.

The caliphate would come before the nuclear exchange. Their plan is to control the entire middle east and as much of southern Europe as they can get away with. Iran has 50,000 Qud force members throughout the region. Iraq is the first part of their plan. Barain and Yemin would be next. They have to contain the sunni influence and posibly ally with them for a period of time while they consolidate. Control of iraq is an important part of their over all plan, but the key is getting the nukes.

Iran also brags about the thousands of suicide bombers they have standing by. It would be very simple to man a bunch of ships carrying nuclear weapons and sail them in to the harbors of countries all over the world.

Tehran is just a city to them. You can bet if they begin operations the leadership there will vacate the city and move to pre-establish bunker systems.

There goal is to hasten the return of the 12th imam. Destroy half the world to do that means nothing as long as everyone is either converted or dead. Which is the only way for the 12th imam to return. It's religious fanaticism to the extreme and they are in control of an entire country. Iran is by far a much bigger threat than al queda.

[waterrescuedude2000]

Reagan signed the legislation. He was not a "lib."


Thank god for small favors huh

[waterrescuedude2000]

And those who actually suffered losses in the camps were paid. Reagan did try to work with libs on some issues

Libs now want to say they are sorry for slavery - and what is next - payments to people who were never slaves?

Didn't you hear?? the "slaves" are suing the ancestors who owned the plantations. I dont know if any have won but its been tried plenty of times.

[waterrescuedude2000]

That's what I've always thought as well. If Bin Laden really wanted to be a martyr why doesn't he just contact the US military and let them know where he is hiding? I'm sure we could accamodate him.

Pakistan.. But the us wont violate their "sovereign nation" I say if they are hiding terrorist then they are an enemy and need to be dealt with. We need to give them a 24 hour warning. Hand us Bin Laden or we bomb your capital until it looks like Berlin did. Then just start launching tomohawks until they hand his sorry ass over

[red states rule]

Didn't you hear?? the "slaves" are suing the ancestors who owned the plantations. I dont know if any have won but its been tried plenty of times.

Another way the black "leaders" are playing the race card

[glockmail]

The caliphate would come before the nuclear exchange. Their plan is to control the entire middle east and as much of southern Europe as they can get away with. Iran has 50,000 Qud force members throughout the region. Iraq is the first part of their plan. Barain and Yemin would be next. They have to contain the sunni influence and posibly ally with them for a period of time while they consolidate. Control of iraq is an important part of their over all plan, but the key is getting the nukes.

Iran also brags about the thousands of suicide bombers they have standing by. It would be very simple to man a bunch of ships carrying nuclear weapons and sail them in to the harbors of countries all over the world.

Tehran is just a city to them. You can bet if they begin operations the leadership there will vacate the city and move to pre-establish bunker systems.

There goal is to hasten the return of the 12th imam. Destroy half the world to do that means nothing as long as everyone is either converted or dead. Which is the only way for the 12th imam to return. It's religious fanaticism to the extreme and they are in control of an entire country. Iran is by far a much bigger threat than al queda. I think you've got it just about right there. The only part that I would perhaps disagree with is that Iran has an actual coordinate, while Al Queada does not. Therefore if we have the will we could simply plug thise into a targeting system and be done with them.

[Gaffer]

I think you've got it just about right there. The only part that I would perhaps disagree with is that Iran has an actual coordinate, while Al Queada does not. Therefore if we have the will we could simply plug thise into a targeting system and be done with them.

If you compare iran and al queda to germany and japan. Germany was the larger threat. This is the same situation. al queda can't be ignored. Just gone after with a few less resources until iran is taken out. It's actually a very similar scenario. al queda sneak attacked, but the real power was iran and saddam was very much like Mussolini. Small surrogate wars and operations have replaced the large scale army battles, but the scenario remains the same.

[glockmail]

If you compare iran and al queda to germany and japan. Germany was the larger threat. This is the same situation. al queda can't be ignored. Just gone after with a few less resources until iran is taken out. It's actually a very similar scenario. al queda sneak attacked, but the real power was iran and saddam was very much like Mussolini. Small surrogate wars and operations have replaced the large scale army battles, but the scenario remains the same. I agree with that except that Al Queada has no boundaries or location, and that makes killing it more difficult. Its not the first time we've faced this Muslim threat, though, as even the Constitution references piracy on the high seas, and those guys were primarily Muslims.

[Gaffer]

Yep muslims have been a threat to the world since islams inception. Even the founding fathers recognized the threat. Too bad they didn't take that into consideration and outlaw islam in this country.

They can call it what they want or deny it all they want but we are at war with islam. All muslims have not joined the war just as all Americans have not joined. But its still the fact.

[glockmail]

Yep muslims have been a threat to the world since islams inception. Even the founding fathers recognized the threat. Too bad they didn't take that into consideration and outlaw islam in this country.

They can call it what they want or deny it all they want but we are at war with islam. All muslims have not joined the war just as all Americans have not joined. But its still the fact.

If any fault can be found with the Constitution at the time it was written it would be this. I think the Founders understood that Muslims respected power and thought that Americans would forever and instinctively know this too. The Founders simply did not recognize that 200 years into the future we would be in an era when a large percentage of the native population- liberals- would be seeking to destroy this country from within, by actively seeking appeasement of and defeat against our enemies offshore.