The Ally That Isn't

[Kathianne]

Turkey should be put on the 'terror list.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)

[Black Diamond]

Frightening rhetoric.

[Gunny]

Turkey should be put on the 'terror list.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)

Turkey has ALWAYS been weird. It's any ally simply because we protected them from the USSR. They're arrogant as Hell. Getting their asses kicked in WWI taught them nothing. Even after they lost an empire. We used it as a listening post during the Cold War. Trust me, It's one of those places I lived in for 2 years as a kid that Gabby thinks I never have been to.

Turks are weird. They aren't European and they aren't Arabian. But they DO think they are God's gift.

[Black Diamond]

Turkey has ALWAYS been weird. It's any ally simply because we protected them from the USSR. They're arrogant as Hell. Getting their asses kicked in WWI taught them nothing. Even after they lost an empire. We used it as a listening post during the Cold War. Trust me, It's one of those places I lived in for 2 years as a kid that Gabby thinks I never have been to.

Turks are weird. They aren't European and they aren't Arabian. But they DO think they are God's gift.
How much did we protect them so USSR would not have access to Bosporus and Dardenelles Straits?

[Gunny]

How much did we protect them so USSR would not have access to Bosporus and Dardenelles Straits? It was about containment at the Black Sea. Turkey is a bridge from Asia Minor to Europe. It is strategically important. Or was. They sure as Hell weren't turning us away during the Cold War. I lived on Karamursel AFB on the northern coast of Turkey.

They really are caught in the middle though. Add in their bullshit politicians and it's definitely a strange ass place.

[gabosaurus]

I don't understand why Turkey isn't already on the terror list. I believe there are travel warnings. The current leader is well on his way to becoming another another Saddam or Gaddafi.

[Gunny]

I don't understand why Turkey isn't already on the terror list. I believe there are travel warnings. The current leader is well on his way to becoming another another Saddam or Gaddafi.
Because Turkey is not a terrorist state. Nationalistic arrogant state? Yes. Terrorists don't screw with Turkey because they will kill you. They don't care who thinks what. They will kill you.

[sear]

Many sensible comments already posted.

But:

"It was about containment at the Black Sea. Turkey is a bridge from Asia Minor to Europe. It is strategically important." G #5
G #5 makes a particularly sharp (& relevant) point.

We didn't choose Turkey as a "friend" because of her beautiful, lustrous plumage.

Turkey occupies geo-strategic territory so conspicuously important, even our Founders recognized it. Wasn't Thomas Jefferson an American ambassador to Turkey?

We're not palling up w/ Turkey 'cause we think she's gee-whizz swell !

We're allied with Turkey because she can help advance our regional interests:
- support for the Kurds (who would be worse off without the U.S. alliance)
- U.S. opposition to a monster like Syria's Assad
- U.S. opposition to ISIL
- etc.

I'm not endorsing Erdoan.
But we play the cards we're dealt.

[jimnyc]

Turkey should be put on the 'terror list.'

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-referendum-europe-idUSKBN16T13E?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=58d299a604d30153626e7e94&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter)

Personally, I added Yemen and Turkey a few years back, and a few here argued with me about it. (not you woman!).

[Drummond]

Turkey is a country that's long since had aspirations about joining the EU.

I suggest, even if recent pronouncements are no more than 'mere arrogance', that this behaviour proves they should remain excluded from joining.

Besides which, I believe that if Turkey did join the EU, that would create a conduit for terrorists from the Middle East to find an easy route (easier than now !!) to swamp Europe. From there, they would then have an easier route into the US (.. imagine the furore if Trump decided to place bans on people entering from Europe !!).

[Gunny]

Turkey is a country that's long since had aspirations about joining the EU.

I suggest, even if recent pronouncements are no more than 'mere arrogance', that this behaviour proves they should remain excluded from joining.

Besides which, I believe that if Turkey did join the EU, that would create a conduit for terrorists from the Middle East to find an easy route (easier than now !!) to swamp Europe. From there, they would then have an easier route into the US (.. imagine the furore if Trump decided to place bans on people entering from Europe !!).

Turkey was once thew Ottoman Empire and controlled the entire Middle East. Prior to that, Constantine moved the capitol of the RomanEmpire from Italy to Constantinople. It is where the Greeks stopped the Persian empire. It was and does border Russia. Any deal they make with Russia will be in THEIR -- not Russia's nor our' -- best interest. In THAT regard. I can't blame Turks for being about Turkey. That is NOT saying I agree with how they go about it. I don't like Turks and haven't since I was 2. But I CAN understand living in a border state and being relentlessly invaded.

Since Turkey is half in Europe, there's no reason to exclude them. I think they're nuts to want to, but the fact remains ... you again have no basis for an argument.

[Kathianne]

Well 'It's Done', now the perceptions and time will tell:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/16/opinions/turkey-election-less-democracy-opinion-ghitis/


Turkey's democracy has died
(http://www.cnn.com/profiles/frida-ghitis)By Frida Ghitis (http://www.cnn.com/profiles/frida-ghitis)


Updated 8:36 AM ET, Mon April 17, 2017

https://www.dailysabah.com/editorial/2017/04/17/in-turkey-a-victory-for-democracy-and-stability


In Turkey, a victory for democracy and stability

[Kathianne]

and here we go:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/18/fresh-off-congratulations-trump-turkeys-president-arrests-cartoonist-journalists/


Fresh off congratulations from Trump, Turkey’s president arrests a cartoonist and other journalists

POSTED AT 8:01 AM ON APRIL 18, 2017 BY JAZZ SHAW


I had a bit of trouble believing it when the news broke yesterday and Allahpundit dug into it (http://hotair.com/archives/2017/04/17/report-trump-calls-erdogan-congratulate-victory-turkey/). Could it be? Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan managed to pull off a close and highly contested “win” in a referendum which essentially put a government stamp of approval on handing him the powers of a dictator. And President Donald Trump called to congratulate him? It’s still not being confirmed at the White House as of this morning, but the Washington Post is reporting that it happened (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-calls-turkeys-erdogan-to-congratulate-him-on-contested-referendum/2017/04/17/f997d306-2397-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1). And if it didn’t, as AP said, why in the world would Turkey risk a diplomatic meltdown by lying about a phone call?

“Disappointing” doesn’t begin to cover it. I can kind of see AP’s realpolitik take on wanting to maintain good relations with the leader of a nation who still has a pivotal role to play in both the war on ISIS and keeping a lid on the Syrian refugee crisis. But there are limits to such unpleasant pragmatism. Calling to congratulate a foreign leader on winning their own election is one thing, but this was just an insulting power grab.

So what sort of leader is being showered with praise by our own president? No sooner was the referendum vote completed than news broke of more oppressive activity coming out of Turkey. This time it was another series of arrests of newspaper editors, columnists and even a political cartoonist who had taken the dangerous step of criticizing Erdogan. It was the cartoonist in particular, named Musa Kart, who caught Jake Tapper’s attention on The Lead yesterday. Here’s the short segment on that subject (http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/04/17/lead-tapper-turkish-cartoonist-imprisoned-dnt.cnn).
...

Speaking of people who are rotting in Erdogan’s dungeons, has anyone heard from American Pastor Andrew Brunson lately? The Secretary of State spoke with his wife earlier this month and just this past week the Vice President commented (http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/04/15/vp-pence-on-american-pastor-jailed-in-turkey-andrews-release-is-extremely-important-to-white-house/) on how his release was “very important” and sent Mrs. Brunson a letter himself.


Citing his “deep, personal interest” over Brunson’s plight, Pence wrote: “I can assure you both that the State Department and this White House, under President Trump’s leadership, consider Andrew’s release and reunification with you and your three children extremely important.”

Pence also said that he had “personally discussed [Pastor Andrew’s] detention with senior Turkish officials,” according to ACLJ.



The one person I haven’t heard comment on it is President Trump. Did it come up on this congratulatory phone call? It would be nice to find out if the United States still has the clout to get one of our own people out of the dungeons of a supposed ally.