Sharks Circling

[Kathianne]

Yesterday Jim posted about 'the very bad day of the very new administration,' today there is this:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/122ae0b5848345faa88108a03de40c5a/manaforts-plan-greatly-benefit-putin-government

Seriously, I don't think this has to be a 'bombshell,' that destroys the administration, though it does seem to be the bomb the left has been leading up to: The Russian Connection.

I do think much will be decided by how it is addressed by Trump and the administration by the whole. Twitter? Admit to Manafort had these ties, which the administration, then a campaign, dealt with? What they've done since and will do to prevent such in the future?

Of course keeping in mind the healthcare vote tomorrow and ultimate decision and the coming issues of tax reform and immigration reform, including the court cases to come...

[Kathianne]

IMO, while they should avoid the 'they did it too!' response, reminding of this as an 'aside' may well be useful:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/21/exclusive-podesta-was-board-member-of-firm-linked-to-russian-investors/

[NightTrain]

I think the Russian thing has been vastly overblown in an attempt to portray collusion or outright conspiracy where there is none... but the AP continues to dig.

Of course the Russians meddle in our elections; it's in their best interest to do so. We meddle in theirs. Obama meddled in Israel's elections last time and even outright funded opposition to Netanyahu after calling him 'chickenshit'... it's nothing new, but the media pretend like this is all unprecedented.

The Russians did whatever they did on their own. Personally, I think they may have had a part in the Wiki / DNC hacks - but as I've said before, all they did was expose the undeniable corruption where they could find it in order to throw a monkey wrench in our system and hope for the best. If they did have a hand in it, I'm grateful even if all it did was remove Wassermann-Shultz from the scene.

If they'd have gotten dirt on Trump, Wiki would have had that published too.

From a logical perspective, the best candidate the Russians could have hoped for was Bernie Sanders to get elected - it certainly wasn't the guy who said he wanted to rebuild our military to new greatness and unleash our economy. The Russians know better than anyone where socialism inevitably leads and it's a painful road.

Hopefully the Putin/Trump conspiracy theory dies soon... it doesn't make any sense.

[Gunny]

IMO, while they should avoid the 'they did it too!' response, reminding of this as an 'aside' may well be useful:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/21/exclusive-podesta-was-board-member-of-firm-linked-to-russian-investors/

My rule of thumb is simple: When you know that whatever you say is going to be wrong/attacked? Don't say anything. Why bother? We know THAT isn't gong to happen with Trump. He couldn't keep his mouth shut if you put a zipper on it.

[pete311]

From a logical perspective, the best candidate the Russians could have hoped for was Bernie Sanders to get elected - it certainly wasn't the guy who said he wanted to rebuild our military to new greatness and unleash our economy. The Russians know better than anyone where socialism inevitably leads and it's a painful road.

The Soviet Union was communist

[Gunny]

The Soviet Union was communist

Based on socialism. Trying to nitpick doesn't sell. Marxism is an ideology that will never work so long as it involves human beings.

Fact is both Hitler and Stalin were far-left wingnuts who believed the government should control any-and-everything. Nice track record you lefties got going for you. I guess you could add Obama to the list but he is too stupid to be Hitler or Stalin.

[Kathianne]

I think the Russian thing has been vastly overblown in an attempt to portray collusion or outright conspiracy where there is none... but the AP continues to dig.

Of course the Russians meddle in our elections; it's in their best interest to do so. We meddle in theirs. Obama meddled in Israel's elections last time and even outright funded opposition to Netanyahu after calling him 'chickenshit'... it's nothing new, but the media pretend like this is all unprecedented.

The Russians did whatever they did on their own. Personally, I think they may have had a part in the Wiki / DNC hacks - but as I've said before, all they did was expose the undeniable corruption where they could find it in order to throw a monkey wrench in our system and hope for the best. If they did have a hand in it, I'm grateful even if all it did was remove Wassermann-Shultz from the scene.

If they'd have gotten dirt on Trump, Wiki would have had that published too.

From a logical perspective, the best candidate the Russians could have hoped for was Bernie Sanders to get elected - it certainly wasn't the guy who said he wanted to rebuild our military to new greatness and unleash our economy. The Russians know better than anyone where socialism inevitably leads and it's a painful road.

Hopefully the Putin/Trump conspiracy theory dies soon... it doesn't make any sense.

I'm at work, so short.

What does the overblown conspiracy have to do with Manaforts decisions before and after? For that matter how this administration, in the crosshairs of the left should respond?

[gabosaurus]

http://www.scientificliteracy.org/images/nemo.gif

[Gunny]

I'm at work, so short.

What does the overblown conspiracy have to do with Manaforts decisions before and after? For that matter how this administration, in the crosshairs of the left should respond?

It's a non-issue to me. They're attacking over allegations of decisions made during the Bush Administration? World's changed a bit since then, hasn't it? I made decisions for decades that I would do differently in hindsight. And was he doing what he was told to do? Or operating on his own?

Should have known it would be Bush's fault though. The left is doing the same thing with Obama as they did with Bill Clinton. Those two tards get a total pass from the media; while, it attacks the right relentlessly over contrived BS.

[pete311]

Based on socialism. Trying to nitpick doesn't sell.

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

[Gunny]

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

Incorrect. Socialism grows out of weak people who cannot or will not grow a pair, get out on their own, and do it for themselves. It has NOTHING to do with I work harder to earn more and don't need you taking it away and giving to some lazy dolt.

The only difference between the Obama administration and Hitler/Stalin is Obama didn't go out and just outright kill people. He took our money and wiped his ass with Constitution instead. He completely undermined what this Nation stands for. He was a total dictator for 8 years. Cried like a baby when he didn't get his way then end-ran Congress with a SO.

There is no socialism where elitism exists. The left in this country are as elitist as it gets. And look at how dumb you (the ubiquitous you) are. ALL you hard-charging union lefty so-called socialists have been put out of business by your own damned party. Killed the steel industry, coal, automotive ... those were ALL union jobs, you leftwingnut dolts. Get a clue. You turned the Midwest into a 3rd world country.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

YES, AS IN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COBRA AND A BLACK MAMBA. YET EACH ONE IS POISONOUS AND VERY PRONE TO BITING TO KILL.
Certainly not nearly as significant as you intended to make them out to be in your comment, IMHO.
Falsified shades of grey, do not bear up to intelligent and proper scrutiny, IMHO.... -Tyr

[Gunny]

YES, AS IN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COBRA AND A BLACK MAMBA. YET EACH ONE IS POISONOUS AND VERY PRONE TO BITING TO KILL.
Certainly not nearly as significant as you intended to make them out to be in your comment, IMHO.
Falsified shades of grey, do not bear up to intelligent and proper scrutiny, IMHO.... -Tyr

And they're ALL just STILL snakes.

[NightTrain]

The Soviet Union was communist

I'm well aware of that.

Do you not know the path that socialism leads to?



I'm at work, so short.

What does the overblown conspiracy have to do with Manaforts decisions before and after?

It doesn't. I was speaking to the fanatical determination of the media & moonbats to tie Trump into the silly conspiracy theory... it's been going on for months now with zero results.


For that matter how this administration, in the crosshairs of the left should respond?

I think ignoring the lunacy is the best course, because even addressing it to ridicule the idea lends some sort of credence - and it's a needless distraction when I want results from Trump & Crew. There's much work to be done and giving any time to moonbats detracts from real progress.

[NightTrain]

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

Socialism is Commie Lite.

We didn't achieve our status of the wealthiest, most powerful, most influential nation on earth by adhering to either concept.

On the other hand, take a gander at the failed countries who have.

QED.

[Gunny]

I'm well aware of that.

Do you not know the path that socialism leads to?




It doesn't. I was speaking to the fanatical determination of the media & moonbats to tie Trump into the silly conspiracy theory... it's been going on for months now with zero results.



I think ignoring the lunacy is the best course, because even addressing it to ridicule the idea lends some sort of credence - and it's a needless distraction when I want results from Trump & Crew. There's much work to be done and giving any time to moonbats detracts from real progress.

TOTALLY agree. It's like :finger4: mentally. Psychologically, not responding to the left would be pure gold. You are not worthy of a response nor more attention.

[Black Diamond]

TOTALLY agree. It's like :finger4: mentally. Psychologically, not responding to the left would be pure gold. You are not worthy of a response nor more attention.
At first it looked like trump was going to do that. He needs to abandon his Twitter account.

[pete311]

Do you not know the path that socialism leads to?


There have been no instance of a socialist country turning communist. The countries that are, or were, communist jumped straight into it from capitalism or, in some cases, feudalism.

[Gunny]

There have been no instance of a socialist country turning communist. The countries that are, or were, communist jumped straight into it from capitalism or, in some cases, feudalism.

Ummm --- No? They jumped straight into it based on false promises. KInda like democrats.

[pete311]

Ummm --- No? They jumped straight into it based on false promises. KInda like democrats.

uh ok...

[Gunny]

uh ok...
Good comeback. Got another that's more than 2 words and refutes the argument? NO YOU DON'T. I can get a better argument out of BD about McDonalds.

[Kathianne]

At first it looked like trump was going to do that. He needs to abandon his Twitter account.

Yes, in this particular case though, if he doesn't act on saying something like he 'fired' Manafort due to questionable actions, this could be a real problem. When you KNOW they are out to get you, ignoring a real issue doesn't work well.

[pete311]

Good comeback. Got another that's more than 2 words and refutes the argument? NO YOU DON'T. I can get a better argument out of BD about McDonalds.
Your reply was in no way a worthwhile response to mine. That billy madison vid clip comes to mind.

[Gunny]

Your reply was in no way a worthwhile response to mine. That billy madison vid clip comes to mind.

CIRCLE JERK alert. My response is FAR more qualified and intelligent than your post. Slinging shit against the wall is neither intelligent, thought out nor fact. Pointing THAT out IS fact.

[Black Diamond]

I wonder if trump ever stops to reflect. Or if it's always been go go go. It's worked for him against all odds. But I shake my head sometimes.

[BoogyMan]

The Soviet Union was communist

:lol::lol::lol::lol: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. What do you think the communists based their ideology upon?

[BoogyMan]

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

Ummmm, no. You should go back to your high school and tell your history teacher what an abject failure he or she is. Communism is essentially the final phase of socialism (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism). Capitalism and socialism are nothing alike (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Capitalism_vs_Socialism). Egads.

[NightTrain]

Ummmm, no. You should go back to your high school and tell your history teacher what an abject failure he or she is. Communism is essentially the final phase of socialism (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism). Capitalism and socialism are nothing alike (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Capitalism_vs_Socialism). Egads.

Thanks for taking up my slack, Boogey... just got back home.

I find it appalling that this even needed to be explained.

The really scary thing is that there's millions of young moonbats running around this country that have no understanding of what socialism is other than "Give me free shit!".

[Kathianne]

Thanks for taking up my slack, Boogey... just got back home.

I find it appalling that this even needed to be explained.

The really scary thing is that there's millions of young moonbats running around this country that have no understanding of what socialism is other than "Give me free shit!".

Venezuela would be an excellent object lesson for current events.

[aboutime]

If petey honestly believes, or thinks Socialism is far better to live in, or under than Capitalism....Petey should make arrangements to give up his citizenship here, and move where he will find happiness in Socialism, Marxism, or Communism that is so appealing.

Otherwise. Every teacher petey had in his Pre-school adventures should be turning in their graves for failing to teach him the ABC's of common sense, logic, and honesty.

[NightTrain]

Venezuela would be an excellent object lesson for current events.

Bring that up almost anywhere else and you'll have moonbats arguing that Venezuela isn't socialist. I had a lengthy argument in the comments section of the Washington Times a couple weeks ago with a self-proclaimed expert who informed me that they're not socialist, at all. :bang3: I think his handle was 'Grumpy Liberal' if I recall correctly.

[Black Diamond]

Bring that up almost anywhere else and you'll have moonbats arguing that Venezuela isn't socialist. I had a lengthy argument in the comments section of the Washington Times a couple weeks ago with a self-proclaimed expert who informed me that they're not socialist, at all. :bang3: I think his handle was 'Grumpy Liberal' if I recall correctly.
Grumpy liberal. ROFLMAO

[NightTrain]

Grumpy liberal. ROFLMAO

Yeah... here's just one of his stupid comments when I pointed out how well Greece & Venezuela are doing :

<header class="comment__header" style="box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 1; padding-right: 46px; margin-bottom: 3px; color: rgb(42, 46, 46); font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, arial, sans-serif;">The Grumpy Liberal (https://disqus.com/by/thegrumpyliberal/) NightTrain (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/wayne_lapierre_nra_ceo_weve_got_president_trumps_b ack/#comment-3174364561)• 24 days ago (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/wayne_lapierre_nra_ceo_weve_got_president_trumps_b ack/#comment-3175736661)</header>Two countries you couldn't find on a map if you tried. Since I have a grad degree in political science, I'll write off your attempt to explain Venezuela to me, since it's not anywhere an example of socialism. Typical rants by someone who has zero clue of the world.






Apparently this guy is a 23 year US Vet, has a Grad Political Science degree, is a current National Security Adviser (??), spent many years down there, blah blah blah.

In reality he's an ignorant twerp getting paid to comment by Soros, I expect.

When I linked 3 different examples of socialist Venezuela, he responded that he doesn't read media accounts - only scholarly papers and I'm a hick that should return to community college. :rolleyes:

[Black Diamond]

Yeah... here's just one of his stupid comments when I pointed out how well Greece & Venezuela are doing :

<header class="comment__header" style="box-sizing: border-box; line-height: 1; padding-right: 46px; margin-bottom: 3px; color: rgb(42, 46, 46); font-family: &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, arial, sans-serif;">The Grumpy Liberal (https://disqus.com/by/thegrumpyliberal/) NightTrain (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/wayne_lapierre_nra_ceo_weve_got_president_trumps_b ack/#comment-3174364561)• 24 days ago (https://disqus.com/home/discussion/washtimes/wayne_lapierre_nra_ceo_weve_got_president_trumps_b ack/#comment-3175736661)</header>Two countries you couldn't find on a map if you tried. Since I have a grad degree in political science, I'll write off your attempt to explain Venezuela to me, since it's not anywhere an example of socialism. Typical rants by someone who has zero clue of the world.






Apparently this guy is a 23 year US Vet, has a Grad Political Science degree, is a current National Security Adviser (??), spent many years down there, blah blah blah.

In reality he's an ignorant twerp getting paid to comment by Soros, I expect.

When I linked 3 different examples of socialist Venezuela, he responded that he doesn't read media accounts - only scholarly papers and I'm a hick that should return to community college. :rolleyes:
Sounds like an Internet champion. :lol:

[Gunny]

Sounds like an Internet champion. :lol:

NO shit. :laugh:

[pete311]

:lol::lol::lol::lol: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. What do you think the communists based their ideology upon?

Yea... and do you know North Korea calls itself? The acronym is DPRK. You figure it and let me know if it fits.

[Black Diamond]

Yea... and do you know North Korea calls itself? The acronym is DPRK. You figure it and let me know if it fits.
East Germany was called the Deutsche Demokratische Republik. They claimed they practiced socialism.

[pete311]

Ummmm, no. You should go back to your high school and tell your history teacher what an abject failure he or she is. Communism is essentially the final phase of socialism (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Socialism). Capitalism and socialism are nothing alike (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Capitalism_vs_Socialism). Egads.

There is no pure capitalist state. Everyone is a mix of capitalism and socialism. I ask you again show me a socialist state that turned communist.

[pete311]

If petey honestly believes, or thinks Socialism is far better to live in, or under than Capitalism...

Bombshell alert, the US is a mix already

[pete311]

Venezuela would be an excellent object lesson for current events.
Yeah and the non socialist countries in South America aren't doing much better, so maybe there is more to the story eh? Maybe 2007 shows some weakness in capitalism. There isn't a perfect system.

[aboutime]

Bombshell alert, the US is a mix already


Poor petey. What a Lame way to NOT answer a question? If what you say is true. PROVE IT. With facts, not opinions, not fabrications, not with rumors.
Honest to goodness HARD FACTS. Also, if it is a mix. It's because YOU want it to be. You wish America was a Socialist nation to get you out of all RESPONSIBILITY for YOURSELF.

[pete311]

Poor petey. What a Lame way to NOT answer a question? If what you say is true. PROVE IT. With facts, not opinions, not fabrications, not with rumors.
Honest to goodness HARD FACTS. Also, if it is a mix. It's because YOU want it to be. You wish America was a Socialist nation to get you out of all RESPONSIBILITY for YOURSELF.

Use Google, like so many tell me to here. I've been a small business owner for 15 years, married, homeowner, have a dog and 6 figures in my retirement fund. I'm fine thank you.

[Gunny]

Use Google, like so many tell me to here. I've been a small business owner for 15 years, married, homeowner, have a dog and 6 figures in my retirement fund. I'm fine thank you.This turned into the Petey's retirement thread exactly WHEN? Can you buy a sense of humor with all that whatever you have?

You totally can't laugh at yourself. Yet, you will put yourself in position for others to laugh at you. Why would you do that? You claim to be so smart. If you are, why set yourself up? There's no logic in that.

And are you really as miserable in real life as you present yourself on the board? I'm just wondering and it's a legit question. Both my knees and both ankles are shot. I walk with a cane if I leave the yard. But you know what? I can walk with a cane when I leave the yard. I fall down. I get back up.

I don't understand people that take themselves so seriously they have no sense of humor. I've been waiting for you to display a sense of humor just once. You're absolutely NO fun. I laugh at myself when I screw up. I don't understand the hard part to that.

[aboutime]

Use Google, like so many tell me to here. I've been a small business owner for 15 years, married, homeowner, have a dog and 6 figures in my retirement fund. I'm fine thank you.


If you follow your thinking about Socialism in this thread; YOU should be doing everything possible to give the small business to someone else, or let them take it because you have more than they do. As for the six figures. Big deal. You should be following the NANCY PELOSI, Obama thoughts, and split all of those SIX FIGURES with others who do not have as much, if any.

So, with all of that in mind. YOU CERTAINLY ARE....FINE....If you stop being a hypocrite, and do what the SOCIALIST in you tells you to do.

[NightTrain]

There is no pure capitalist state. Everyone is a mix of capitalism and socialism. I ask you again show me a socialist state that turned communist.

According to Karl Marx, Socialism is the transitional period between Capitalism and Communism.

You're going to argue with the guy that invented the whole thing and actually wrote the Communist Manifesto?

[pete311]

According to Karl Marx, Socialism is the transitional period between Capitalism and Communism.

You're going to argue with the guy that invented the whole thing and actually wrote the Communist Manifesto?

You talk like it's a ten step playbook. Marx was a philosopher and developed a political theory. He certainly didn't live to see any evolution from socialism to communism.

[Abbey Marie]

Bring that up almost anywhere else and you'll have moonbats arguing that Venezuela isn't socialist. I had a lengthy argument in the comments section of the Washington Times a couple weeks ago with a self-proclaimed expert who informed me that they're not socialist, at all. :bang3: I think his handle was 'Grumpy Liberal' ​if I recall correctly.

Redundant. :laugh2:

[BoogyMan]

Yea... and do you know North Korea calls itself? The acronym is DPRK. You figure it and let me know if it fits.

Your astonishing lack of historical understanding with regard to what socialism is and the VERY close tie it has to communism is mind boggling. I don't guess you have anything else upon which to base your commentary as the public school system seems to have failed you.

[BoogyMan]

There is no pure capitalist state. Everyone is a mix of capitalism and socialism. I ask you again show me a socialist state that turned communist.

Interesting attempt to deflect from a simple and direct answer to your initial assertion that capitalism leads to socialism and that there is no tie between socialism and communism. Was there a good bit of lead paint on your crib?

[pete311]

Interesting attempt to deflect from a simple and direct answer to your initial assertion that capitalism leads to socialism and that there is no tie between socialism and communism. Was there a good bit of lead paint on your crib?

Iconic since all you offer are insults.

[BoogyMan]

Iconic since all you offer are insults.

YOU SAID CAPITALISM DIRECTLY FEEDS INTO SOCIALISM. Mockery is all that such ridiculousness can create.

[pete311]

YOU SAID CAPITALISM DIRECTLY FEEDS INTO SOCIALISM. Mockery is all that such ridiculousness can create.

A capitalist system can be implemented but over time the people will demand socialist aspects. This is exactly what has happened to EVERY capitalist state in the world.

[Gunny]

You talk like it's a ten step playbook. Marx was a philosopher and developed a political theory. He certainly didn't live to see any evolution from socialism to communism.t IS a playbook. A concept written on paper. It's used in the current to artificially create strife between the sheeple thinking politics matter when it's really all about the politicians getting that paycheck and the perks.

THERE is a political theory for you. Retirement check.

[Drummond]

and socialism grows directly out of capitalism. The difference between Socialism and communism is significant.

What a load of rot. Communism is a more atheistic version of Socialism, and more all-controlling, BUT, it's a form of Socialism, nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_socialism

Partial quote:


In 1877, the Socialist Labor Party of America was founded. This party, which advocated Marxism and still exists today, was a confederation of small Marxist parties and came under the leadership of Daniel De Leon. In 1901, a merger between opponents of De Leon and the younger Social Democratic Party joined with Eugene V. Debs to form the Socialist Party of America. In 1905, the Industrial Workers of the World formed from several independent labor unions. The IWW opposed the political means of Debs and De Leon, as well as the craft unionism of Samuel Gompers. In 1910, the Sewer Socialists, the main group of American socialists, elected Victor Berger as a socialist Congressman and Emil Seidel as a socialist mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, most of the other elected city officials being socialist as well.

... The 'Sewer Socialists' ... I like it !

But tell me -- do you see the smallest sign in that account of Socialism and Capitalism being anything other than polar opposites ? Check the link out in its entirety, for that matter.

Better yet ...don't waste our time with such drivel ...

[Black Diamond]

YOU SAID CAPITALISM DIRECTLY FEEDS INTO SOCIALISM. Mockery is all that such ridiculousness can create.
I believe Marx said something to that effect.

[aboutime]

A capitalist system can be implemented but over time the people will demand socialist aspects. This is exactly what has happened to EVERY capitalist state in the world.


Petey. Since you insist that only YOU have all the answers. I agree.

They are consistently the FUNNIEST answers any of us could expect from you.

So...you have earned....:dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunn o::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno::dunno:
THE DP AWARD FOR CONSISTENT IGNORANCE!

[BoogyMan]

A capitalist system can be implemented but over time the people will demand socialist aspects. This is exactly what has happened to EVERY capitalist state in the world.

How does that even address the point? The fact that liberals come in screaming for a handout and wear down the people doesn't change the FACT that capitalism IS NOT AND DOES NOT feed socialism, ever. The PEOPLE set aside their standards and cave to public pressure for freebies.

Alexander Frasier Tytler said it best: “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”