Trumpcare!

[gabosaurus]

Spent quite a bit of time today reading over the new version of Trumpcare. Along with the various explanations offered by those responsible for it.
If you are wealthy and/or in good health, you have to love the new plan. Other people, not so much.
If you are 60 or over, insurance companies can raise your rates 500 percent. If you have preexisting conditions, you can keep your insurance, but your rates will double. If you are on a fixed income, or just don't earn a minimum amount per year, you don't qualify at all. Republicans speaking today flat out admitted that some people will lose their coverage.
Since most states have already cut subsidies to low cost health facilities to the bones, this is going to drive more people to hospital emergency rooms for treatment. Since, by law, they have to treat everyone who walks in regardless of their ability to pay.
Good stuff, eh?

[Elessar]

Well....it is coming together quite better than the Nancy Pelosi "We have to vote on it to see what is in it"
horse crap she and Obama plugged.

Hopefully better that the Obama plan that forced small businesses to cut back hours to workers so they
did not have to pay a huge penalty.

That plan was shoved down people's throats, and the liberal Congress at the time did nothing
to stop it.

[gabosaurus]

None of that has anything to do with Trumpcare. Any healthcare plan is going to be composed and adapted unilaterally.
Criticizing the past is not going to help what goes in at the present.

[Kathianne]

Criticizing the past is an attempt to avoid past mistakes. Which is why added more subsidies is being criticized so strongly, by so many.

They need to think the 'proposal' through much more. There's no competition being added, while the 'incentives' to get more young are likely not sufficient.

Both Ryan and McConnell are hoping to rush this through in 3 weeks, we'll see where it goes.

[gabosaurus]

Supposedly there is a ton of pressure from the White House to get SOMETHING out there. No one is being given a chance to hash things out. Which is why Dems are criticizing some areas and more conservative Republicans are criticizing others.

As it stands, the current healthcare proposal has zero chance of making it through the Senate.

[Black Diamond]

Supposedly there is a ton of pressure from the White House to get SOMETHING out there. No one is being given a chance to hash things out. Which is why Dems are criticizing some areas and more conservative Republicans are criticizing others.

As it stands, the current healthcare proposal has zero chance of making it through the Senate.
And vote trump, get Hillary.

[Black Diamond]

Democrats will criticize anything republicans put forth that isn't single payer or somewhere between that and Obamacare.

[Kathianne]

Democrats will criticize anything republicans put forth that isn't single payer or somewhere between that and Obamacare.

It's not just Democrats. Neil Cavuto and other conservatives are not taken with what has been analyzed so far. Especially worrisome are the 'reassurances' that began mid-afternoon that it's going to be 'fixed' in phases. That was the answer to criticism, so far.

[Black Diamond]

It's not just Democrats. Neil Cavuto and other conservatives are not taken with what has been analyzed so far. Especially worrisome are the 'reassurances' that began mid-afternoon that it's going to be 'fixed' in phases. That was the answer to criticism, so far.
Democrats don't want obamcare to go unless it's for a more "progressive" plan. That's my point. I am sure it will be duked out between republicans and I am a bit worried if they are rushing it.

[aboutime]

Spent quite a bit of time today reading over the new version of Trumpcare. Along with the various explanations offered by those responsible for it.
If you are wealthy and/or in good health, you have to love the new plan. Other people, not so much.
If you are 60 or over, insurance companies can raise your rates 500 percent. If you have preexisting conditions, you can keep your insurance, but your rates will double. If you are on a fixed income, or just don't earn a minimum amount per year, you don't qualify at all. Republicans speaking today flat out admitted that some people will lose their coverage.
Since most states have already cut subsidies to low cost health facilities to the bones, this is going to drive more people to hospital emergency rooms for treatment. Since, by law, they have to treat everyone who walks in regardless of their ability to pay.
Good stuff, eh?


gabby. Too bad for you. Today was the first day, and they know changes will be needed.
On the other hand. Since you are such an expert to be such a critic from the Left.
You should demand from your Congress members...TO KEEP YOUR OBAMACARE, of your own choosing. No matter what good comes from what you call TRUMPCARE, you should KEEP what you have now. And keep paying what the OBAMACARE bill demanded until you kick the bucket. That would be the Liberally FAIR Way. Right?

[Little-Acorn]

Remind me again why we need to have Big Govt running our health care AT ALL?

This country has had no national health care plan for its entire existence, except for a brief period from 2010-2017... and that period was an unmitigated disaster.

Yet now we are exchanging one Socialistic Big-Govt health plan, for another socialistic Big-Govt health plan???

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Liberals always try to get people addicted to Big Govt., so the liberals can justify their existence and force everyone else to comply. And who cares what actually happens to the people?

Have we now accepted the liberals' lifelong dream?

I certainly haven't. Have you?

Why on Earth do we need ANOTHER Big-Govt health plan???

[NightTrain]

Remind me again why we need to have Big Govt running our health care AT ALL?

This country has had no national health care plan for its entire existence, except for a brief period from 2010-2017... and that period was an unmitigated disaster.

Yet now we are exchanging one Socialistic Big-Govt health plan, for another socialistic Big-Govt health plan???

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Liberals always try to get people addicted to Big Govt., so the liberals can justify their existence and force everyone else to comply. And who cares what actually happens to the people?

Have we now accepted the liberals' lifelong dream?

I certainly haven't. Have you?

Why on Earth do we need ANOTHER Big-Govt health plan???



I agree wholeheartedly. IMO, Government needs to completely abandon the entire notion of meddling in healthcare.

This whole concept of replacing the idiotic system in place right now with another is a no-win proposition. It can't be done and it will fail at hideously expensive levels as Obamacare is doing now.

Repeal it, turn it back to the private sector and get the hell out of the healthcare business other than the VA and medicare / medicaid. There will be squawking from the "Give me free shit!" crowd, but that can't be helped. They're going to squawk anyway.

[Noir]

The interactions coming out of this are just great, here's my personal fav -

[Black Diamond]

Wow. I don't like what I see so far. What happened to Obamacare gone?

[Kathianne]

It was interesting last night, Hannity was saying that it's not OK. Finally, something we agree on.

Supposedly it's because of the whole reconciliation process that was used, they are claiming the only way to 'take out' the most disliked parts, is to do it in phases. For some reason, this won't be able to be done until 'phase III.'

To his credit, Hannity opened with docs I'd read about years ago, that I posted on here or somewhere. ;) (I can't find it). Anyways, they don't accept insurance. Children cost $10 a month, adults $50. No co-pays and they've worked with pharmaceuticals to provide most common meds at about 10% of normal. For X-rays and such, they've entered agreements with providers at a fraction of costs. For example x-rays for a broken bone, including radiology readings, around $140-200. Not $500-2000. Most patients carry 'major medical' in case disaster strikes.

This plan has been successfully replicated many times.

It was this type of coverage that I've been advocating for years. Indeed, employers can work with a major medical insurer to cover the costs of that and offer the option to their employees, cutting their medical benefits packages drastically. Both the employer and the doctors being able to cut administrative costs dramatically.

[BoogyMan]

Obamacare, Trumpcare, IDontCare.....it is all intrusive big government liberalism.

[Elessar]

Obamacare, Trumpcare, IDontCare.....it is all intrusive big government liberalism.

Get the hell out of Federal Government Health Care. All it does is create schisms.....

People have a will...and a right as a conscious human being, to choose to adapt to a plan that
suits them. Small businesses cut back hours for employees to avoid the added tax increase on them.

Those fat dumb and happy liberals that sucked up on the Obama plan wrote their own tickets on
the backs of wage-earning citizens. Get up off your lazy baby factory ass and DO something to
improve your situation.

How many Democrats took the Obama Care? Quite few. They accepted the exemption for them
that was written into the bill. Did Obama himself sign on to it? NO!

But it was sold as being good for ALL Americans. An 800 page+ stack of garbage. It was supposed to be
view-able prior to the vote, but the web site never came up.

[gabosaurus]

I see some of you who are quite willing to write off those who make minimal income and can not afford the often exorbitant pricing of private health care coverage. Most small businesses don't offer coverage. Retirees often have no choice. If you are older, or have preexisting conditions, insurance is often not available to you.
If you are younger, in good health and hold down a good job, you don't have to worry about this. Military veterans don't have to worry about this. A large segment of the population is not so fortunate.

[aboutime]

http://icansayit.com/images/Obamacarestack.jpg or http://icansayit.com/images/trumpcare.jpg

[aboutime]

I see some of you who are quite willing to write off those who make minimal income and can not afford the often exorbitant pricing of private health care coverage. Most small businesses don't offer coverage. Retirees often have no choice. If you are older, or have preexisting conditions, insurance is often not available to you.
If you are younger, in good health and hold down a good job, you don't have to worry about this. Military veterans don' t have to worry about this. A large segment of the population is not so fortunate.


WRONG again gabby. Too many civilians have been told lies about Military health care. WE DO have to worry about it. Despite all of your lack of knowledge. WE PAY FOR OUR HEALTH CARE monthly, or quarterly. NOTHING is free.

Most of us have TRICARE. Look that up, and see how Congress has been following Obama's orders.

[Black Diamond]

Off the cuff, as long as we force insurance companies to take people with pre existing conditions, insurance will be expensive. Health care costs were already skyrocketing and then Obama made it worse. But once you "give" the people something, they will not want it taken away.

[sear]

Where should the line be drawn?

Zero% government is anarchy.
100% is slavery.

Presumably the ideal (or what most closely approximates it) would be somewhere in between.

In principle I agree with those that have posted that this Republican bill merely perpetuates government expansion (that Obamacare advanced).

BUT !!

The reality is, government gets stuck holding the bag.
With no healthcare system, citizens show up at the hospital ER with an illness, and the hospital is by law required to treat them. It's some of the most expensive healthcare on Earth.

Obama intended ACA to bend down that $cost curve.

Now Republicans have seized the POLITICAL opportunity to cut 10's of millions of U.S. tax payers out, AND provide the wealthy with substantial tax breaks; all under the guise of a Republican healthcare plan that's an improvement over ACA.

One solution?

Change the law.
Why should the law require hospital ER's to treat the needy? Kick them out! Let them die! Medical schools will buy their corpses; revenue that will more than cover the cost of disposal!
Is that not the conservative approach?

[pete311]

Why should the law require hospital ER's to treat the needy? Kick them out! Let them die! Medical schools will buy their corpses; revenue that will more than cover the cost of disposal!
Is that not the conservative approach?

You must be a Christian

[sear]

p3 #23

Or a logician.


" ...the [U.S.] federal government is used more & more as an agent of redistribution." W.F.Buckley Jr.


Where do we draw the line? If I must pay my neighbor's medical bills, what's he going to do for me?
- Mow my estate?
- Paint my yachts?
- Pay my JP4 bills?


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9796&stc=1

[jimnyc]

You must be a Christian

Not ALL hospitals are required to treat anyone at ALL. All the major hospitals are required to do is stabilize someone, and that's it. Then let them go to their own doctor. Or let them wait and go to a county hospital and then pay.

But some folks want everyone and anyone to get free healthcare no matter where they go, even outside of the stabilization. They think that doctors spending $200,000 learning how to be doctors, should treat people for free.

You must be one of those liberals. :rolleyes:

[pete311]

No vote today on the bill

[Black Diamond]

You must be a Christian
You must believe in slavery. Well you are a democrat.

[Black Diamond]

Not ALL hospitals are required to treat anyone at ALL. All the major hospitals are required to do is stabilize someone, and that's it. Then let them go to their own doctor. Or let them wait and go to a county hospital and then pay.

But some folks want everyone and anyone to get free healthcare no matter where they go, even outside of the stabilization. They think that doctors spending $200,000 learning how to be doctors, should treat people for free.

You must be one of those liberals. :rolleyes:
And they cry about doctors making $200k but have no problem suing him for $2 million if he makes a mistake.

[jimnyc]

No vote today on the bill

Good. I don't claim to know all about it in depth, but what I have read, and what I have the cliff's notes version of, I don't like. I think they should re-do some major portions and say give it another 2-4 weeks and do it right. But I don't claim to be ANY type of expert on healthcare and/or economics.

[Black Diamond]

Good. I don't claim to know all about it in depth, but what I have read, and what I have the cliff's notes version of, I don't like. I think they should re-do some major portions and say give it another 2-4 weeks and do it right. But I don't claim to be ANY type of expert on healthcare and/or economics.
Yeah. Looked like Obamacare lite.

[jimnyc]

Yeah. Looked like Obamacare lite.

I don't like the dang govt. having their sticky fingers in any shit like this, coming into my wallet yet again. Like some say - go to the DMV any day of the week - do you want those folks in charge of your healthcare? I don't.

[Gunny]

Novel concept, I know .... but I pay for MY healthcare insurance. I know it's a secret invention I have yet to patent ....

[LongTermGuy]

​Obama care exploded....finished...it was all a lie....
http://www.investors.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Edit3-1204-newscom.jpghttp://cdn.dailyheadlines.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Kevin-Fobbs-800x480-Obamacare-black-voters-.jpg

[Black Diamond]

Maybe we should leave Obamacare in place until it is so horrible the people demand it be replaced. Maybe Lindsey had that one right.

[sear]

"Novel concept, I know .... but I pay for MY healthcare insurance. I know it's a secret invention I have yet to patent ...." G 32
a) The VA might help.

b) I pay 100% $cash out of pocket for my dentistry, have for decades. But it is affordable.
I couldn't afford to pay $hundreds of $thousands for some nutty medical issue. It would in practical terms be financial suicide. I don't want to live out my last months, weeks, days roasting squirrels & rats under a bridge for survival.

Maybe we should leave Obamacare in place until it is so horrible the people demand it be replaced. Maybe Lindsey had that one right.
Extremely logical.

And thus we may deduce the Republicans are either too stupid, or too agenda-driven to take that approach.

Let us be as crystal clear as the Republican leadership has been. Their enunciated agenda is:

repeal & replace
The -repeal- comes first. Jamming a finger in the Obama administration's eye is more important to them than to expanding healthcare to the needy.
And the proof of this is, according to non-partisan government estimate, tens of millions fewer Americans would be covered by Ryancare than are now covered by Obamacare.

OOOOOOOOOOOooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!

So THAT'S what happens when we replace a president raised in a single parent household, with a president that is allegedly a $Billionaire.

[Abbey Marie]

a) The VA might help.

b) I pay 100% $cash out of pocket for my dentistry, have for decades. But it is affordable.
I couldn't afford to pay $hundreds of $thousands for some nutty medical issue. It would in practical terms be financial suicide. I don't want to live out my last months, weeks, days roasting squirrels & rats under a bridge for survival.

Extremely logical.

And thus we may deduce the Republicans are either too stupid, or too agenda-driven to take that approach.

Let us be as crystal clear as the Republican leadership has been. Their enunciated agenda is:

The -repeal- comes first. Jamming a finger in the Obama administration's eye is more important to them than to expanding healthcare to the needy.
And the proof of this is, according to non-partisan government estimate, tens of millions fewer Americans would be covered by Ryancare than are now covered by Obamacare.

OOOOOOOOOOOooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!

So THAT'S what happens when we replace a president raised in a single parent household, with a president that is allegedly a $Billionaire.

Welcome to the board.

Is this a slightly veiled rant against 1%ers?

[sear]

Welcome to the board.
Thank you very much. I'm impressed with this cyber-community. There's obviously lots of talent here. I'm sure I'll learn a lot posting here.

Is this a slightly veiled rant against 1%ers?
I'm a utilitarian. Soaking the poor simply doesn't make much sense to me.

"They would have us borrow $700 $Billion $Dollars over the next ten years, to give a tax cut of about a $hundred $thousand $dollars each to folks who are already $millionaires." U.S. President Obama 2010
Believe it or not, a bunch of wealthy New Yorkers recently petitioned NYS government to complain that they are not taxed enough.

Tax cuts are FABULOUS!!
But I'm a resolute deficit hawk.
Cut all the taxes you want.

BUT !!

Cut $spending farther first. W/ $20 $Trillion in debt, we should be running $surpluses, not $deficits.



The following excerpted from U.S. Presidential candidate Libertarian Andre Marrou's

1992 stump speech.


"... the income tax only brings in about a third of federal revenues. That leaves us two thirds to operate the government on. Now; the two thirds of the budget this year
is equal to an entire budget how many years ago? Most people will guess like 1949,
1962. The answer is just 1985, seven years ago. All we have to do to get rid of the
personal income tax is to get rid of the excessive government that the Democrats and
Republicans have created during just the past seven years. It is that easy, it would be
pretty easy to do. But as I've mentioned before it would require intelligence and
courage. Now what do we ... operate the government on? The basic, original
Constitution has 4 taxes in it that supported the government of the United States
roughly until 1913, when the Democrats & Republicans gave us the income tax. We

can utilize those taxes. I think they're called excises, tariffs, imposts, and duties. And

that is what supported the government until then.”
BTW:
I keep getting logged off.
Is there any way to make that don't happen?

Thanks again for this excellent site, & excellent posters !

[pete311]

The bill has been pulled before the vote

[Black Diamond]

The bill has been pulled before the vote
Probably because they knew they didn't have the votes....

[Black Diamond]

Market down only 60 points. I wonder if the market "knew" it wouldn't pass a few days ago.

[Black Diamond]

Probably because they knew they didn't have the votes....
Per news alert, Ryan just confirmed. Didn't have the votes.

[gabosaurus]

https://i.imgflip.com/1m1jvl.jpg

[sear]

Donald Trump has been expressing himself in superlatives for decades.

This is an epic fail.

- Republicans control the house.
- Republicans control the senate.
- Republicans control the exec.

And still they couldn't achieve what the Democrat, the dark-skinned gentleman achieved in passing ACA / Obamacare.

Not only does it make Republicans look like a bunch of rank amateurs.

It foretells 4 years of a toothless Republican presidency.

[Kathianne]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Trump to celebrate the VA judge that handed him a victory over the travel ban and stop with the 'taking names' memes regarding a bad healthcare plan?

[aboutime]

We have to remember. Democrats are known for calling THEIR losses, wins, and Republican Losses...Losses.

Truth is. As Obamacare continues to IMPLODE...as predicted. More Americans will begin to finally notice how they have been lied to by the DEMS. Paying Higher premiums, and Higher DEDUCTABLES by the Americans who were convinced, and Fooled into taking OBAMACARE...will, before this year ends. SEE FOR THEMSELVES...Obamacare was DESIGNED TO FAIL.
But we DUMB AMERICANS aren't supposed to be that SMART to understand how the Dems have been lying to us for DECADES.

[Kathianne]

We'll see how it all plays out, but somehow I think that history tells us that when it's a 'R' that has a major legislative loss on first attempt, that will be remembered. There's also the issue that the Conservatives DID have 7 years for a good alternative proposal, such as getting the government out of healthcare for all but the very poor.

[Elessar]

We'll see how it all plays out, but somehow I think that history tells us that when it's a 'R' that has a major legislative loss on first attempt, that will be remembered. There's also the issue that the Conservatives DID have 7 years for a good alternative proposal, such as getting the government out of healthcare for all but the very poor.

I agree and you make a very good point, in my mind's eye.

[revelarts]

the Republican party.... during election seasons for the pass 8 years

"if you don't like Obamacare we'll get rid of Obamacare!!!" "if it wasn't for Obama vetoing our repeals 50 times."

100 plus days after a 'Republican' president is in office.

"Well Uhhh Ummm... did we say we could get 'rid of it'? "

[aboutime]

the Republican party.... during election seasons for the pass 8 years

"if you don't like Obamacare we'll get rid of Obamacare!!!" "if it wasn't for Obama vetoing our repeals 50 times."

100 plus days after a 'Republican' president is in office.

"Well Uhhh Ummm... did we say we could get 'rid of it'? "



rev. You really should stick to honest facts. Trump has only been in office for SIXTY TWO days. Your wannabe stab at using your hatred FAILED.
So. Do us all a favor, and tell us how much you want, and need OBAMACARE.

[sear]

"We'll see how it all plays out, but somehow I think that history tells us that when it's a 'R' that has a major legislative loss on first attempt, that will be remembered. There's also the issue that the Conservatives DID have 7 years for a good alternative proposal, such as getting the government out of healthcare for all but the very poor." K #46

"I agree and you make a very good point, in my mind's eye."
I was born in 1954.
For most of my life it was the Republican party that marched in lock-step.

Only since the disaster of the Bush (younger) administration has Republican ideological cohesion disintegrated.

Ironically, the GOP in 2017 makes the Democrat party look like a well organized, efficiently run political machine.

"rev. You really should stick to honest facts. Trump has only been in office for SIXTY TWO days. Your wannabe stab at using your hatred FAILED.
So. Do us all a favor, and tell us how much you want, and need OBAMACARE." at #49
I'm not sure tenure is the issue.

Let's consider some realities:

- Trump campaigned on basis that he and he alone was the Republican candidate with the business s a v v y to be able to drain the swamp, and get Washington to work for the People.
- Repealing Obamacare has been a cause Republicans have been harping on for most of a decade. Speaker Boehner whined about it. Minority Leader / Majority Leader McConnell criticized and threatened it. And Speaker Ryan played the Trump narrative that ACA would be replaced with something better.

It wasn't some trivial detail that just happened to pop up in the course of more important business.

This was a major campaign promise, incident to Republicans promising for years: the Democrats obstruct us, but if you give us control of the house, AND the senate, AND the exec, we will deliver.

So they were given control of all 3.
And not a quarter year into his term, President Trump, author of The Art Of The Deal failed to deliver, thwarted by a conservative minority of their own caucus.

The "honeymoon" is over. The trash-talker from New York is exposed. And he's the albatross that will adorn Uncle Sam's neck for the next 4 years.

- yikes -

[LongTermGuy]

Still intact and Burning....
http://legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Obamacare-Burning-589x442.jpg
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/OohBurn.gif
https://burnadams.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/obamacare-exemption.jpg
http://seriouslyepicstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/600757_10151547101837740_1097185115_n.jpg

[sear]

"Still intact and Burning...." LG
Republicans have been railing against ACA from before the start.
They've been banging the gong:
"repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" ...
- Republicans control the house, via Speaker Ryan
- Republicans control the senate, via Majority Leader McConnell
- Republicans control the exec., via the New York trash-talker

And STILL they couldn't accomplish this major legislative agenda item.

It makes them look weak to suffer such a severe defeat so early into a 4 year presidential administration.

[Gunny]

Republicans have been railing against ACA from before the start.
They've been banging the gong:
"repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" "repeal & replace" ...
- Republicans control the house, via Speaker Ryan
- Republicans control the senate, via Majority Leader McConnell
- Republicans control the exec., via the New York trash-talker

And STILL they couldn't accomplish this major legislative agenda item.

It makes them look weak to suffer such a severe defeat so early into a 4 year presidential administration.

You're kinda right but not quite. The GOP would have to grow some balls to rail. Been to this dance before. I wish they WOULD hammer the crap out the Dems. Forget taking prisoners. BUT the nature of conservatives is to be ...ummmm... conservative?

You call it repeal and replace. I call it how can we un-f*ck the latest tragedy creates by the Progressive Left. Ought to change your name though. Repressive Left sounds more appropriate. All y'all do is screw with sh*t to be screwing with sh*t and you're like the Dallas Cowboys --- can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in one play.

[sear]

The GOP would have to grow some balls to rail. Been to this dance before. I wish they WOULD hammer the crap out the Dems.
Sadly (pathetically?) they're doing the best they can.


“The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president” Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
http://www.mediaite.com/online/white-house-appears-to-want-to-shame-the- (http://www.mediaite.com/online/white-house-appears-to-want-to-shame-the-shameless-mitch-mcconnell-and-company/)shameless-mitch-mcconnell-and-company/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/white-house-appears-to-want-to-shame-the-shameless-mitch-mcconnell-and-company/)


They couldn't even accomplish "the single most important thing" they wanted to achieve.

Please don't miss my point. I'm not talkin' bad about testicular accoutrements.

But by my observation, however deficient Republicans may be below the waist; it's their collective deficiency above the shoulders that's the primary problem.

"Forget taking prisoners. BUT the nature of conservatives is to be ...ummmm... conservative?"
I was with you 100% right up until the question mark.

The question is; just what is it the GOP is trying to conserve?

- I favor balanced budgets. Does that not make me a fiscal conservative?
- I favor

"You call it repeal and replace."
THEY call it "repeal & replace" and have done so for years.

So they boasted with swashbuckling bravado. And what did they deliver? 100% doodly squat. ACA remains the law of the land. The GOP has neither repealed, nor replaced.

The following excerpted from U.S. Presidential candidate Libertarian Andre Marrou's

1992 stump speech.


"... the United States is increasingly socialistic under the Democrats & Republicans.
The Democrats are essentially left wing socialists. The Republicans are right wing
socialists. How do you define socialism? More money to government, more power to
government, more bureaucrats, and more regulations, and on and on ... .
The federal government spends 25% of the Gross National Product. State, county, and
local government spend another 22%. That's 47% of the Gross National Product of this
country being spent by the government bureaucrats primarily on themselves. That
leaves 53% in your pockets. You're the people who earn it. 47% vs 53%; how can we
get your 53% up to 90%? One and only one way, we must reduce the 47% the
government spends, down to 10%. That is the only way it can be done. Individual
Liberty is diametrically opposed to governmental power.
BTW:
I'm not asserting that 10% is the ideal.
Perhaps in the 3rd Millennium the ideal would be closer to 23% or whatever.
My intended point is, it's a question of how we slice the pie.
The less of the $GDP Uncle Sam binges on, the $more is left for us, THE ONES THAT EARN IT.