Department of Education

[Kathianne]

As Abbey would say, "Follow the money..." and votes! Thank Carter. :rolleyes:

We can only hope it will be eliminated:

http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/department-of-education-jimmy-carter


Why Do We Have a Department of Education? Jimmy Carter's Debt to a Teachers Union. (http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/department-of-education-jimmy-carter)

Public education existed well before 1980, but an unpopular President Carter wanted the nation's largest union on his side before an election.

Anthony L. Fisher (http://reason.com/people/anthony-l-fisher/all)|<time datetime="2017-02-07T18:15:00+00:00" style="font-family: Helvetica, helvetica, sans-serif; border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 11.9px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Feb. 7, 2017 1:15 pm


</time>With Betsy DeVos just confirmed (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0ahUKEwiMvs2Kyf7RAhWl14MKHWXqBHUQqUMIIjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fcong ress%2Fmike-pence-casts-tie-breaking-vote-confirm-betsy-devos-education-n717836&usg=AFQjCNGT4PFZRss1B7KZZEZyC3JpzZEmqg&sig2=r0MLjD6PF54-gUwnVkEejQ&bvm=bv.146094739,d.amc) as the new Secretary of Education (https://reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/the-question-isnt-do-you-support-betsy-d), it's worth taking a look back at the events that led the creation of this cabinet-level department.


Public education (including federal involvement in public education (https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/education/timeline-growth)) was a thing in the United States for a couple hundred years (http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/09/department-of-education-history-000235) before 1979, when Congress narrowly approved (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/96-1979/h468) the cleaving of a new Department of Education (DOE) out of the already existing Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. But the newly created federal bureaucracy was more of a favor to a large and powerful special interest group on behalf of a beleaguered president than a necessary reorganization to allow the federal government to "meet its responsibilities in education more effectively, more efficiently, and more responsively," as then-President Jimmy Carter put it.


Upon signing the Department of Education Organization Act Statement (http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=31543) in October 1979, Carter said (http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/oct-17-1979-department-education-14754270):


Primary responsibility for education should rest with those States, localities, and private institutions that have made our Nation's educational system the best in the world, but the Federal Government has for too long failed to play its own supporting role in education as effectively as it could. Instead of assisting school officials at the local level, it has too often added to their burden. Instead of setting a strong administrative model, the Federal structure has contributed to bureaucratic buck passing. Instead of simulating needed debate of educational issues, the Federal Government has confused its role of junior partner in American education with that of silent partner.

<aside class="ad" style="border: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; font-size: 14px; text-align: center; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica, helvetica, sans-serif;">
</aside>
Essentially, Carter's argument—similar to the argument President George W. Bush used (http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jun/07/nation/na-bush7) to create the bloated, expensive, and ineffective (https://reason.com/archives/2015/06/23/president-bush-was-right-before-he-was-w) Department of Homeland Security (https://reason.com/archives/2013/10/22/abolish-the-department-of-homeland-secur)—is that because of all the "bureaucratic buck passing," a new bureaucracy must be created.

Creating the DOE was Carter's fulfillment of a 1976 presidential campaign promise, when he earned the endorsement of the largest labor union in the United States—the National Education Association (NEA). As the Washington Postreported in 1980 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1980/01/27/the-education-of-shirley-mount-hufstedler/53577ec5-9548-4ac4-86d5-ffa9f0bd60b6/?utm_term=.e2e843bf6227):


The NEA gave its first presidential endorsement ever in 1976, when Walter Mondale promised them, at an NEA annual meeting, that the Carter administration would form an education department. At the 1976 Democratic National Convention, more delegates — 180 — belonged to the NEA than any other group of any kind. They've endorsed Carter for 1980, and were a major force in getting delegates to the Iowa caucuses...

Is the department, then, a creature of the NEA?


"That's true," says NEA executive director Terry Herndon. "There'd be no department without the NEA."

...

Just today, Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) has introduced H.R. 899, a one-sentence long bill which would eliminate the Department of Education in its entirety by the end of 2018. Check back later for more Reason coverage of Massie's bill.

[Abbey Marie]

"Tale as old as time..."

[NightTrain]

It'll be interesting to see if that bill gets any traction.

I think it's a fine idea for the Feds to get out of the way and let States handle their schools. Much easier to hold people to account that way.

[Kathianne]

It'll be interesting to see if that bill gets any traction.

I think it's a fine idea for the Feds to get out of the way and let States handle their schools. Much easier to hold people to account that way.

Very true about the accountability. Added bonus, the fed has no place in education via schools, though mandates they force should be funded.

[NightTrain]

Wouldn't it be funny if DoE were terminated with Massie's bill and DeVos is out of a job in a few months?

I expect the moonbats wouldn't know whether to cheer or riot at that point.

[Gunny]

It'll be interesting to see if that bill gets any traction.

I think it's a fine idea for the Feds to get out of the way and let States handle their schools. Much easier to hold people to account that way.

We'll have to disagree on this one. Here; schools are funded by taxpayers in separate districts and there is an inequality in education, supplies. sports and all that junk that reflects who can pay for what. And .... our kids are dumber than Hell. They spend more time bringing homework home for ME to do than anything else. Unless you consider Cell phone 101 a skill.

Of all the things I can't stand, it's the government meddling where it shouldn't yet not doing the things it should. There should be a set standard across the board for education. The people that excel should be rewarded and the ones that don't not. So I'm not about handouts. Just an equal chance.

[Abbey Marie]

We'll have to disagree on this one. Here; schools are funded by taxpayers in separate districts and there is an inequality in education, supplies. sports and all that junk that reflects who can pay for what. And .... our kids are dumber than Hell. They spend more time bringing homework home for ME to do than anything else. Unless you consider Cell phone 101 a skill.

Of all the things I can't stand, it's the government meddling where it shouldn't yet not doing the things it should. There should be a set standard across the board for education. The people that excel should be rewarded and the ones that don't not. So I'm not about handouts. Just an equal chance.

I would say the problems you describe are the fault of the union chokehold, a lack of accountability and competition, the inability to expel students more easily, and mostly, lack of parental guidance and involvement. None of which cost much $$.

[Elessar]

We'll have to disagree on this one. Here; schools are funded by taxpayers in separate districts and there is an inequality in education, supplies. sports and all that junk that reflects who can pay for what. And .... our kids are dumber than Hell. They spend more time bringing homework home for ME to do than anything else. Unless you consider Cell phone 101 a skill.

Of all the things I can't stand, it's the government meddling where it shouldn't yet not doing the things it should. There should be a set standard across the board for education. The people that excel should be rewarded and the ones that don't not. So I'm not about handouts. Just an equal chance.

The worst thing I have seen in recent decades is that a kid with a string of D's and F's is not held back
to go at it again, even in required subjects. Theory is that holding them back hurts their self-esteem.
So there is no incentive to do well. That's just wrong.

[NightTrain]

We'll have to disagree on this one. Here; schools are funded by taxpayers in separate districts and there is an inequality in education, supplies. sports and all that junk that reflects who can pay for what. And .... our kids are dumber than Hell. They spend more time bringing homework home for ME to do than anything else. Unless you consider Cell phone 101 a skill.

Of all the things I can't stand, it's the government meddling where it shouldn't yet not doing the things it should. There should be a set standard across the board for education. The people that excel should be rewarded and the ones that don't not. So I'm not about handouts. Just an equal chance.

Feds can't do anything efficiently that I can see, other than create confusion at an alarming cost.

No, I have to agree with Kathi with regard to any special program the Feds demand is funded 100% by them, like special needs or whatnot.

Any money funding schools needs to be in the form of a block grant to the State with no strings, other than above.

States are smart enough to figure out the best way to educate their kids without Federal ineptitude complicating things, such as Common Core foisted upon the nation.

Hell, Feds can't even deliver mail without hemorrhaging millions every single day when Fed Ex, UPS and DHL do the same thing faster and profitably. Then let's take a look when Feds interfere in the Health Care system.

We see that throwing billions at the problem hasn't done anything but make it worse. Drastic change is needed.

[Black Diamond]

The worst thing I have seen in recent decades is that a kid with a string of D's and F's is not held back
to go at it again, even in required subjects. Theory is that holding them back hurts their self-esteem.
So there is no incentive to do well. That's just wrong.
Well, it sort of goes along with "Everyone is a winner".

[Elessar]

Well, it sort of goes along with "Everyone is a winner".

You nailed it.

The only place I agree with that concept is Special Olympics, particularly children. We held SO
swim meets annually where the staff swam alongside the little ones for safety and encouragement.

[Kathianne]

We'll have to disagree on this one. Here; schools are funded by taxpayers in separate districts and there is an inequality in education, supplies. sports and all that junk that reflects who can pay for what. And .... our kids are dumber than Hell. They spend more time bringing homework home for ME to do than anything else. Unless you consider Cell phone 101 a skill.

Of all the things I can't stand, it's the government meddling where it shouldn't yet not doing the things it should. There should be a set standard across the board for education. The people that excel should be rewarded and the ones that don't not. So I'm not about handouts. Just an equal chance.

I disagree, especially in a wealthier state like TX. The state needs to work out how to distribute the money fairly. Most are funded through property taxes, which puts rural areas at a disadvantage, the state needs to apply some sort of equalizer.

If education is left to the fed, the kids will continue on the PC path they've been on. Want to start to fix the schools? Get on the school board, especially if you DON'T have kids in the system.

[Kathianne]

I would say the problems you describe are the fault of the union chokehold, a lack of accountability and competition, the inability to expel students more easily, and mostly, lack of parental guidance and involvement. None of which cost much $$.

I have to agree, some of the districts with the most money have the worst results. Especially true in the inner cities. Granted a huge part of the problem is where and how the kids are raised. Second big problem is the insistence that inner city schools have teachers that 'look like them.' They need the best and most experienced teachers they can get. They need those that are subject matter experts, so they can teach and create excitement for the kids.

There's lots that can be addressed about how to turn things around, but unless there is some impetus to move on them, it's pointless.

DeVos has long been involved in the alternatives to what has been the status quo, it's needed.

[Gunny]

Feds can't do anything efficiently that I can see, other than create confusion at an alarming cost.

No, I have to agree with Kathi with regard to any special program the Feds demand is funded 100% by them, like special needs or whatnot.

Any money funding schools needs to be in the form of a block grant to the State with no strings, other than above.

States are smart enough to figure out the best way to educate their kids without Federal ineptitude complicating things, such as Common Core foisted upon the nation.

Hell, Feds can't even deliver mail without hemorrhaging millions every single day when Fed Ex, UPS and DHL do the same thing faster and profitably. Then let's take a look when Feds interfere in the Health Care system.

We see that throwing billions at the problem hasn't done anything but make it worse. Drastic change is needed.

I agree about the Fed Govt. Don't confuse what I think should be with what is. My experience in school was moving coast to coast and in between. I was a genius in CA and FL and playing catch-up in Texas. In DC, they didn't even care if I showed up. I missed half one semester with STREP and no one even missed me. They got the Fed tax dollars for a military brat. Why slay the golden goose?

I was a good instructor in the military. I wouldn't make it to lunch at my daughter's school. Anything about teaching civilians, ask Kath. I don't know the intricacies of being a school teacher. And the only things I'm learning about it are from my daughter who teaches 2nd grade.

I would like to see some equality in the process. Rich kids don't deserve a better education and better stuff. Everyone should have to earn it.

[Gunny]

I disagree, especially in a wealthier state like TX. The state needs to work out how to distribute the money fairly. Most are funded through property taxes, which puts rural areas at a disadvantage, the state needs to apply some sort of equalizer.

If education is left to the fed, the kids will continue on the PC path they've been on. Want to start to fix the schools? Get on the school board, especially if you DON'T have kids in the system.

Oh trust me Kath, I am WELL aware of how schools are funded here. I lived above my means for quite a few years to ensure my daughter went to the best school here. And if you own the home, when your kid graduates, you STILL get to pay those taxes. I kind of just sucked it up. Was giving a kid a chance. Somebody helped pay for mine.

I just don't trust local government to do any better of a job than the Fed. They're just as bad. When the child is irresponsible you take away the responsibility and whatever privileges go with it.

[Kathianne]

Oh trust me Kath, I am WELL aware of how schools are funded here. I lived above my means for quite a few years to ensure my daughter went to the best school here. And if you own the home, when your kid graduates, you STILL get to pay those taxes. I kind of just sucked it up. Was giving a kid a chance. Somebody helped pay for mine.

I just don't trust local government to do any better of a job than the Fed. They're just as bad. When the child is irresponsible you take away the responsibility and whatever privileges go with it.

It's way easier to get to a board meeting; to influence board members; to get ahold of your superintendent; etc. Washington is non-responsive and with the dilution that parents through 50 states would face, would be more so than on other issues.

If your schools aren't where you want them, do something.

[Gunny]

It's way easier to get to a board meeting; to influence board members; to get ahold of your superintendent; etc. Washington is non-responsive and with the dilution that parents through 50 states would face, would be more so than on other issues.

If your schools aren't where you want them, do something.

Well yeah, Ms Tinkerbell ... I thought about building my own school; And neighborhood. And school district. Then I can do all the BS paperwork that goes with it. After an 8-10 hour day.

Then I can sell my house and move. I couldn't even own a house until after I retired because I never knew where I was going to be in 24 hours time. No ties to the community. They knew I was as temporary as I did.

So "do something" is not always an option. I'm not from your world.

[Kathianne]

Well yeah, Ms Tinkerbell ... I thought about building my own school; And neighborhood. And school district. Then I can do all the BS paperwork that goes with it. After an 8-10 hour day.

Then I can sell my house and move. I couldn't even own a house until after I retired because I never knew where I was going to be in 24 hours time. No ties to the community. They knew I was as temporary as I did.

So "do something" is not always an option. I'm not from your world.

I get that, that's not typical, not even among most folks that rent. Truth is then, while turning to the 'fed' to you-who traveled throughout the country in federally funded school system was your experience, it isn't the norm-by a long shot.

Most parents keep their kids within a region, most of those within a state, and most of those within a school district.

Owning a house isn't the only way a person pays for public schools, they do so with their rent too. If you qualify to send your kids to the school, you pay taxes to that district.

Of course you pay taxes when your kids leave, before you have them too. If you never have kids and if you do and send them to private schools, you still pay school taxes. There is no escape.