Blame the USA for it all?

[Abbey Marie]

Just pondering something:

For those who like to blame the United States (and especially GWB) for causing Islamic terrorism by invading Iraq and bombing various places, how do you explain the fact that we bombed the hell out of Japan in WWII, yet we hear of no Japanese beheadings, bombings, etc? Any Japanese terrorism, in fact. By all rights, they should have been seething with anger against us for decades now.

Could it be Islam's fanatical teachings itself that cause Islamic terrorism? Oops, I think I just said it.

[pete311]

Islamic terrorism/extremism has been happening for centuries. The unnecessary Iraq war certainly didn't help though. Your examples are really apples and oranges. They are really really different.

[Abbey Marie]

Islamic terrorism/extremism has been happening for centuries. The unnecessary Iraq war certainly didn't help though. Your examples are really apples and oranges. They are really really different.

Every set of facts is different to varying degrees. The point is, the reaction to those situations is what separates people. And when one group acts like an outlier, it is good to know why.

You raise a good point, though. We cannot be the cause if their bad behavior precedes our very existence.

I expect that the left will soon shift the blame fully on to Trump.

[pete311]

Every set of facts is different to varying degrees. The point is, the reaction to those situations is what separates people. And when one group acts like an outlier, it is good to know why.

You raise a good point, though. We cannot be the cause if their bad behavior precedes our very existence.

I expect that that the left will soon shift the blame fully on to Trump.

Japanese culture is very different than islamic arab, yes. Trump is responsible for his actions.

[Black Diamond]

Japanese culture is very different than islamic arab, yes. Trump is responsible for his actions.
Funny considering Bush was responsible for Obama's actions or inactions.

[pete311]

n/a

[Elessar]

n/a

Why did Obama blame everything on GWB?

[pete311]

Why did Obama blame everything on GWB?

GWB set the stage, but Obama is still responsbile for his own actions and responses

[Elessar]

GWB set the stage, but Obama is still responsbile for his own actions and responses

That did not answer the question.

Obama did not have the balls to further defeat this scourge. Draft Dodger and
MJ fiend in college. No world sense about him. Used his chosen ethnicity to
go through school. Became a self-proclaimed "Constitutional Scholar", yet raped it
every time he could.

GWB had bronze balls, and the liberals hated that.

Frikkin weak, Pete, even for you.

[Balu]

What I've noticed... You have strictly negative attitude to Islam. But there are 2 Islams you are always mixing up. There is Islam as one of Traditional Religions and Islam as a uniting factor of a political or Resistance movement. I bet, that few of you studied Islam as Religion and all you conclusions are based on the aggressive deeds of the Islamic political movement. To find out the reasons why this movement appeared it is necessary to delve into History.
Why I am saying about it? - Because Russian Empire, the Soviet Union and Russian Federation were and remain a multi-confessional country, where all religions coexist quite peacefully and all the tensions appear only when a certain groups want to achieve political aims uniting under the colors of Islam for resistance.

[fj1200]

Just pondering something:

For those who like to blame the United States (and especially GWB) for causing Islamic terrorism by invading Iraq and bombing various places, how do you explain the fact that we bombed the hell out of Japan in WWII, yet we hear of no Japanese beheadings, bombings, etc? Any Japanese terrorism, in fact. By all rights, they should have been seething with anger against us for decades now.

Could it be Islam's fanatical teachings itself that cause Islamic terrorism? Oops, I think I just said it.

Could be. Could also be that they're third-world S'holes.

[revelarts]

Just pondering something:

For those who like to blame the United States (and especially GWB) for causing Islamic terrorism by invading Iraq and bombing various places, how do you explain the fact that we bombed the hell out of Japan in WWII, yet we hear of no Japanese beheadings, bombings, etc? Any Japanese terrorism, in fact. By all rights, they should have been seething with anger against us for decades now.

Could it be Islam's fanatical teachings itself that cause Islamic terrorism? Oops, I think I just said it.

Short answer, it's not either radial Islam OR the U.S.. It's BOTH. Back during the Carter Admin a conscious decision was made to support radical Islamic groups against the USSR. Radical militant Islam was a smallish, underfunded outlier but its been supported over and over again by the US and our allies as an enemy of our enemy. Until its not convenient. Or they turn and bite us. Or they make for a good excuse to attack places or get unconstitutional measures passed.

The US has funded, trained, given visas to, supplied, "advised " and encouraged radical Islamist all over the M.E.. As well as fomented animosities that have helped spawn more Islamic radical.
So uh Yeah both.

[Abbey Marie]

Short answer, it's not either radial Islam OR the U.S.. It's BOTH. Back during the Carter Admin a conscious decision was made to support radical Islamic groups against the USSR. Radical militant Islam was a smallish, underfunded outlier but its been supported over and over again by the US and our allies as an enemy of our enemy. Until its not convenient. Or they turn and bite us. Or they make for a good excuse to attack places or get unconstitutional measures passed.

The US has funded, trained, given visas to, supplied, "advised " and encouraged radical Islamist all over the M.E.. As well as fomented animosities that have helped spawn more Islamic radical.
So uh Yeah both.

Since US $$ have gone all over the world to all sorts of questionable people, I would contend that our support of any Islamic ne'er-do-wells pales in comparison as a reason for terrorism, as compared to Islamic tenets being followed.

Still waiting for for someone to explain what makes the difference between the behavior of Muslims and the Japanese.

[NightTrain]

Still waiting for for someone to explain what makes the difference between the behavior of Muslims and the Japanese.

Interesting question, Abs.

The only things I can think of is Discipline and Government.

The Japanese have a long history going back thousands of years of obedience to their government. Fanatical behavior following their Emperor's directives was on a par or even greater with muslims in many cases with suicide attacks, whole villages committing suicide, one soldier fighting to the death against impossible odds, etc. When we would accept nothing less than Unconditional Surrender in WWII, their Government instructed the people to lay down arms and they did. Had the Emperor not given that command, we know that there were hundreds of thousands of women & children peasants training to take on the Marines when they landed - but fortunately, that didn't happen.

They were thoroughly defeated, we changed their Government for them to make them pacifists by their Constitutional Law, and they've been problem free on the world stage since then - obeying their Government like they almost always have.



The muslims, of course, are subject to many different governments around the world, and that religion is only 1300 years old. The violent aspect of the religion is the key, and while there are many apologists / propagandists who continue to claim it's peaceful, the reality shows that it is not.

The first use of whipping up religious fervor among muslims (disregarding the Crusades because that was too long ago and both sides engaged in it) appears to be the brainchild of the Kaiser right before and during WWI. The Ottomans (Turkey) really wanted to be part of Europe, and since the Ottoman Empire was in decline, this alliance with Germany looked like a good way to reverse things and gain a seat at the European table :


The sheikh’s declaration of a holy war, made two weeks later, urged Muslims all over the world–including in the Allied countries–to rise up and defend the Ottoman Empire, as a protector of Islam, against its enemies. “Of those who go to the Jihad for the sake of happiness and salvation of the believers in God’s victory,” the declaration read, “the lot of those who remain alive is felicity, while the rank of those who depart to the next world is martyrdom. In accordance with God’s beautiful promise, those who sacrifice their lives to give life to the truth will have honor in this world, and their latter end is paradise.”

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ottoman-empire-declares-a-holy-war

Sounds pretty familiar, doesn't it? The message hasn't changed much. Also, Turkey's burning desire to officially be part of Europe hasn't changed either.

Since there isn't a long standing tradition of obedience to a particular government amongst the muslims, it seems to me that their primary guidance is from their religion which has been used by those in positions of power to whip up killers from the pool of the devout to kill the enemy-of-the-moment. While that works at times (Afghanistan), when that conflict is resolved, how do you remove eternal religiously motivated hatred afterwards? I don't think you can, because you're talking about the Afterlife, and they all listened to their religious leaders preach that killing that particular enemy was their ticket to paradise. Naturally, these religious 'truths' were handed down from generation to generation.

So, starting in WWI... you've got the enemies of muslims identified by their religious leaders (in reality, Germany's enemies) : France, Britain, Russia, Italy, Australia and the USA. Cue generational hatred handed down against these nations starting in 1914.

The first classic terrorist attack I can find against complete strangers was in Australia in 1915 when 2 muzzies shot up a passenger train to kill infidels to follow the jihad order from the Ottomans :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Broken_Hill

1924 sees the end of the Ottoman caliphate, but there's still religious hatred being handed down even though there's no governmental authority directing that fervor. Children are still being taught how to gain favor with Allah.

1941 sees another jihad declared by the Grand Mufti against the Allies; cue updated fervor against the usual enemies.

Of course, when Israel was created at the end of WWII, the muslims didn't need any directives to declare jihad, the widespread hatred of Jews has been a constant since the invention of Islam.

So while muslim governments come and go, the constant is religious figures whipping up the masses to kill the enemy-of-the-moment by declaring jihad, but there is no adherence to any kind of governmental allegiance directing the fanatics and it's been a self-feeding movement for a long time that supersedes their country's positions - take Saudi Arabia for example.

Distracting the peasants from their 3rd-world miserable plight by stoking the flames of hatred is a no-brainer tactic by those in power these days as well. Government leaders are well aware that pointing their radical subjects in any direction other than themselves is a smart move. If the peasants believe that their misery is due to someone other than the guys that have gold-plated toilets, so much the better, right?

Nudge the Clerics and Imams to rail against America. Or France. Or Britain. Easily done, especially with the history of jihad against those same enemies that Grandpappy Achmed blew himself up attacking back in WWI in glorious martyr fashion.

[Abbey Marie]

Excellent response, NT. :clap: