Betsy DeVos

[Black Diamond]

This one may be tough.

[Kathianne]

Yep, I mentioned that earlier regarding Collins and Murkowski, not sure if there were links then. Here's one now:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/susan-collins-betsy-devos-confirmation-234497


<header class="" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: proxima-nova, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; background-color: rgb(247, 248, 248);">DeVos nomination stands at 50-50It could come down to Vice President Mike Pence, in what would be a history-making confirmation vote.
</header>By BURGESS EVERETT (http://www.politico.com/staff/burgess-everett) and KIMBERLY HEFLING (http://www.politico.com/staff/kimberly-hefling)
02/01/17 01:07 PM EST

...

[Black Diamond]

Yep, I mentioned that earlier regarding Collins and Murkowski, not sure if there were links then. Here's one now:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/susan-collins-betsy-devos-confirmation-234497
No margin for error. May come down to Pence.

[gabosaurus]

Educators have been fighting this battle since Devos was announced as the choice. She is by far the least qualified person selected for Trump's cabinet. Her confirmation would wreck the American education system.
Unlike many liberals, I am not opposed to most of Trump's cabinet pics. But I have been working with educators to deny Devos. We are putting pressure on every GOP to think closely about their voice. Anyone who votes for Devos will pay in their state. We will be as bloody and nasty as possible.

All we need now is one more GOP senator to vote against Devos and she will go down in flames. Being a billionaire donor does not qualify her to head up the education department. Devos would turn the entire nation's schools into the travesty that is now Detroit.

[CSM]

Educators have been fighting this battle since Devos was announced as the choice. She is by far the least qualified person selected for Trump's cabinet. Her confirmation would wreck the American education system.
Unlike many liberals, I am not opposed to most of Trump's cabinet pics. But I have been working with educators to deny Devos. We are putting pressure on every GOP to think closely about their voice. Anyone who votes for Devos will pay in their state. We will be as bloody and nasty as possible.

All we need now is one more GOP senator to vote against Devos and she will go down in flames. Being a billionaire donor does not qualify her to head up the education department. Devos would turn the entire nation's schools into the travesty that is now Detroit.

This post is enough justification for me to actually WANT her to be approved. Before, I really did not care. As an aside, given what occurred on the campus of higher learning yesterday, maybe...just maybe.... the American education system needs some severe revamping!

[Noir]

This post is enough justification for me to actually WANT her to be approved. Before, I really did not care. As an aside, given what occurred on the campus of higher learning yesterday, maybe...just maybe.... the American education system needs some severe revamping!

Good to see you're making an informed decision.

[CSM]

Good to see you're making an informed decision.

If you think I base my decisions based on what I read on this board and that alone then you are far more misguided than I believed. If nothing else, I have at least attended American schools at all levels and put four children through the American education system (some are still working towards Masters and Doctorates) so have a bit of empirical knowledge. What do you have, Sparky, other than assurances from the likes of Gabby (who apparently has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo)??

[Noir]

If you think I base my decisions based on what I read on this board and that alone then you are far more misguided than I believed. If nothing else, I have at least attended American schools at all levels and put four children through the American education system (some are still working towards Masters and Doctorates) so have a bit of empirical knowledge. What do you have, Sparky, other than assurances from the likes of Gabby (who apparently has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo)??

I have the words spoken by Betsy DeVos, which couldn't convince a mule.

[NightTrain]

I have the words spoken by Betsy DeVos, which couldn't convince a mule.

And what is your experience with the American educational system?

[Noir]

And what is your experience with the American educational system?

This forum :dance:

[NightTrain]

This forum :dance:

Oh.

Quite.

[pete311]

DeVos is a disaster. No experience, no vision. SAD!

[NightTrain]

DeVos is a disaster. No experience, no vision. SAD!

Our current system is a disaster.

Time to try something else.

[pete311]

Our current system is a disaster.

Time to try something else.

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with DeVos

[Gunny]

Educators have been fighting this battle since Devos was announced as the choice. She is by far the least qualified person selected for Trump's cabinet. Her confirmation would wreck the American education system.
Unlike many liberals, I am not opposed to most of Trump's cabinet pics. But I have been working with educators to deny Devos. We are putting pressure on every GOP to think closely about their voice. Anyone who votes for Devos will pay in their state. We will be as bloody and nasty as possible.

All we need now is one more GOP senator to vote against Devos and she will go down in flames. Being a billionaire donor does not qualify her to head up the education department. Devos would turn the entire nation's schools into the travesty that is now Detroit.

You mean as bloody and nasty as you were in the Presidential election. Too bad y'all couldn't come up with enough tears to drown the right. I know you're trying though ....

Give yourself a rest. No one gives a damn what you think and especially Trump. One of his greatest detractors is also one of his greatest assets ... he's not listening to you.

[NightTrain]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with DeVos

It doesn't?

Then why, pray tell, are the Teacher's Unions so deathly afraid of her?

[Gunny]

It doesn't?

Then why, pray tell, are the Teacher's Unions so deathly afraid of her?

Why are they? Honest question. My daughter's a school teacher and unfortunately, the union has that vocation locked up. She doesn't have a choice. Union or don't work.

I know ZERO about whoever this woman is.

[Black Diamond]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with DeVos
Maybe that's why it's a disaster. I actually can't stand the devos family. But we need a new direction. Competition is good.

[Black Diamond]

Why are they? Honest question. My daughter's a school teacher and unfortunately, the union has that vocation locked up. She doesn't have a choice. Union or don't work.

I know ZERO about whoever this woman is.
The devos family along with the van andel family own amway (now altacore). Level marketing infiltrating churches. Not a fan.

[Gunny]

The devos family along with the van andel family own amway (now altacore). Level marketing infiltrating churches. Not a fan.

Being am Amway salesperson qualifies you to be a government official? I'm not a fan of amway and definitely not a fan of putting someone in office known for infiltrating churches.

[Kathianne]

Seriously?

"I hate Amway, she shouldn't be confirmed." D'oh she inherited, you all want to be judged by relatives?

"I don't know anything about her, just don't want church, though yeah, they can hang the 10 commandments."

At least look up what she's done and her ideas.

-she was privately educated, as were her kids.
-she has been involved in the public schools via boards and other ways for decades.
-she has been an advocate for parents to have vouchers to use for their kids, especially in areas where the public schools are below state averages.
-she has supported and helped establish charter schools that have been part of the public school systems, after some accusations of their not being 'better' than the local public schools, it was found the accusers had faked data. Seriously, the unions are that threatened.

Now one can disagree, but at least find out what she brings and what she lacks.

[pete311]

It doesn't?

Then why, pray tell, are the Teacher's Unions so deathly afraid of her?

I want change too, but that fact doesn't make me competent.

[pete311]

Maybe that's why it's a disaster. I actually can't stand the devos family. But we need a new direction. Competition is good.
Charter schools cherry pick the best inner city students. Then people wonder why inner city public schools are in trouble. They are left with all the trouble kids and can't refuse them like charter schools. I see it first hand in my city. My wife is an inner city teacher.

[Gunny]

Seriously?

"I hate Amway, she shouldn't be confirmed." D'oh she inherited, you all want to be judged by relatives?

"I don't know anything about her, just don't want church, though yeah, they can hang the 10 commandments."

At least look up what she's done and her ideas.

-she was privately educated, as were her kids.
-she has been involved in the public schools via boards and other ways for decades.
-she has been an advocate for parents to have vouchers to use for their kids, especially in areas where the public schools are below state averages.
-she has supported and helped establish charter schools that have been part of the public school systems, after some accusations of their not being 'better' than the local public schools, it was found the accusers had faked data. Seriously, the unions are that threatened.

Now one can disagree, but at least find out what she brings and what she lacks.

Bad day at PT, or what? I asked a question and commented on the response. I said I didn't know a thing about her. And we're back on this education thing. Being educated in a private school doesn't mean shit. Except that people that think it means something are snobs. Us bublically educated ignats are just as smart.

As far as the person is concerned, my question was about her stance on the unions. I don't run all over the net reading pointless BS all day. For one, you know I can't anymore. I asked for info. The short and simple version rather than a cut n paste article would be nice.

And for all that ... what's her damned stance?

[Kathianne]

Bad day at PT, or what? I asked a question and commented on the response. I said I didn't know a thing about her. And we're back on this education thing. Being educated in a private school doesn't mean shit. Except that people that think it means something are snobs. Us bublically educated ignats are just as smart.

As far as the person is concerned, my question was about her stance on the unions. I don't run all over the net reading pointless BS all day. For one, you know I can't anymore. I asked for info. The short and simple version rather than a cut n paste article would be nice.

And for all that ... what's her damned stance?

There wasn't any cut and paste OR even a link to what I posted.

[Abbey Marie]

Seriously?

"I hate Amway, she shouldn't be confirmed." D'oh she inherited, you all want to be judged by relatives?

"I don't know anything about her, just don't want church, though yeah, they can hang the 10 commandments."

At least look up what she's done and her ideas.

-she was privately educated, as were her kids.
-she has been involved in the public schools via boards and other ways for decades.
-she has been an advocate for parents to have vouchers to use for their kids, especially in areas where the public schools are below state averages.
-she has supported and helped establish charter schools that have been part of the public school systems, after some accusations of their not being 'better' than the local public schools, it was found the accusers had faked data. Seriously, the unions are that threatened.

Now one can disagree, but at least find out what she brings and what she lacks.

Bingo on the bolded. When I worked in our local school district, I was disturbed by the amount of venom poured out against the charter schools. I believe they were afraid.

I have a very conservative relative who is a retired public school teacher. She is railing on DeVos on FB with a passion. If your list is factual (and I believe it is), she has it very wrong. And this is an intelligent woman who also likes Trump. I would put it down to her being afraid of competition in the schools, but she is retired. I am just perplexed.

[Abbey Marie]

Charter schools cherry pick the best inner city students. Then people wonder why inner city public schools are in trouble. They are left with all the trouble kids and can't refuse them like charter schools. I see it first hand in my city. My wife is an inner city teacher.


Inner city public schools were in trouble before charter schools became a big thing.

Gee, what could be the cause, then? Hmm...

[Kathianne]

Inner city public schools were in trouble before charter schools became a big thing.

Gee, what could be the cause, then? Hmm...

Just a bit more:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/02/02/gop-senators-opposing-devos-are-well-funded-by-teachers-unions/


GOP Senators opposing DeVos are well funded by teachers unionsPOSTED AT 9:21 AM ON FEBRUARY 2, 2017 BY JAZZ SHAW
...

So how did these two arrive at that decision? A bit of checking over at the Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/01/republicans-voting-against-devos-are-backed-by-teachers-unions/) quickly found that both of these senators have been in the good graces of the teachers unions for quite a while now. This is a bit of an aberration when compared to the vast majority of their GOP colleagues.

Murkowski was endorsed by the Alaska chapter of the National Education Association (NEA) in her 2016 campaign for Senate. The group, which represents 12,000 members who work in Alaska’s public schools, praised Murkowski for her “consistent commitment to improving public education.”
[…]
Collins, who has served in the Senate since 1997, received an “A” grade from the National Educators Association (NEA)in 2008. The “A” grade is the highest possible, according to the senator’s own press release (http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/maine-educators-give-collins). It is based on her voting record and “her co-sponsorship of legislation critical to NEA’s identified legislative priorities.” The “A” rating was also the result of “effective behind-the-scenes advocacy.”
Those endorsements and high ratings don’t come cheaply, either. The Free Beacon provides the details (http://freebeacon.com/politics/gop-defectors-received-thousands-teachers-union/) of the contributions made to both of them by the unions. This, again, is a rarity. You hardly ever see these unions giving any money to Republicans.

...

[Kathianne]

An Editorial:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444502/susan-collins-lisa-murkowski-should-support-betsy-devos?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=editors


Think Again, Collins and Murkowski by THE EDITORS February 2, 2017 12:06 AM

...

In the last few years, there has been modest rollback at the state level, as states and municipalities, aiming to break the longstanding, union-backed public-school monopoly, have created new opportunities for school choice. Much of that progress is thanks to Betsy DeVos. In 1993, she and her husband (who, among other philanthropic roles, is on the board of the National Review Institute) helped put in place Michigan’s charter-school law. In 2010, DeVos took that work nationwide with her American Federation for Children, arguably the most effective education-reform organization in the country. Its extraordinary success in local and state-level legislative races has led to significant reform-oriented legislation in states across the U.S.

...

[Abbey Marie]

From Kathianne's post: GOP Senators opposing DeVos are well funded by teachers unions
So how did these two arrive at that decision? A bit of checking over at the Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/01/republicans-voting-against-devos-are-backed-by-teachers-unions/) quickly found that both of these senators have been in the good graces of the teachers unions for quite a while now. This is a bit of an aberration when compared to the vast majority of their GOP colleagues.

https://lailayuile.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/followthemoney.jpg

[Black Diamond]

I, for one, hope she is confirmed. If she is not, I worry school of choice may be dead in the water to some extent. I think teachers unions should be outlawed. Betsy's husband runs amway, not her relatives. I grew up in west Michigan. I understand the games amway plays. They are like a religion. Almost cult like. I am not anti church. The church saved my marriage. More specifics later.

[fj1200]

Charter schools cherry pick the best inner city students. Then people wonder why inner city public schools are in trouble. They are left with all the trouble kids and can't refuse them like charter schools. I see it first hand in my city. My wife is an inner city teacher.

They're in trouble because they suck. Charter schools allow those parents who care at least an opportunity to get out. There needs to be more charter schools IMO but I'll allow that possibly Michigan's law is a little loose in their regulation.

[pete311]

They're in trouble because they suck. Charter schools allow those parents who care at least an opportunity to get out. There needs to be more charter schools IMO but I'll allow that possibly Michigan's law is a little loose in their regulation.

Such a broad brush you paint with. My wife graduated from an inner city public school that is one of the best in the country. She also worked in a charter school last year. The principal moved the school 3 times in that year. The kids didn't have any books. During a scheduled audit the principal had the janitor pose as a teacher because he had better credentials than the teacher. Almost no financial information is required for audit. Our great gov walker has stripped most accountability of charter schools. Yay! That's working out great. Thanks for taking my tax dollars for that!

[fj1200]

Such a broad brush you paint with. My wife graduated from an inner city public school that is one of the best in the country. She also worked in a charter school last year. The principal moved the school 3 times in that year. The kids didn't have any books. During a scheduled audit the principal had the janitor pose as a teacher because he had better credentials than the teacher. Almost no financial information is required for audit. Our great gov walker has stripped most accountability of charter schools. Yay! That's working out great. Thanks for taking my tax dollars for that!

I paint broadly because they broadly suck. The picture you paint of WI charter schools is nothing like the charter school that my kids go to. Only by fluke is it a county-chartered school, long story, but it takes hundreds of hours of volunteer time, raising millions of dollars, etc. and while it's not for everyone and isn't perfect it has commitment from the community and is a very strong option in a GA county that is just awful at government on so many levels.

I can grant you that MI and WI may not be the best examples, but I go by limited information, but that is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Much of the problem is that there is such resistance to change and when change does occur it happens in such wide swings that there is little time for a middle ground to be found. There is an appalling lack of choice especially in low-income districts that parents are stuck with one option and many times it is not a good option. I don't doubt that there are good public school in some inner cities but that is not the norm and it's quite distressing.

I think we've made many bad educational choices for so long in this country, including way to large schools, that a shock is necessary. I'm not sure what an Education Secretary is going to do about it as most change will be in the states.

[BoogyMan]

Agreed, but that has nothing to do with DeVos

How does it have nothing to do with her? She may be just what the "system" needs to be able to step away from simply being a child storage facility and return to being an educational system again.

[pete311]

How does it have nothing to do with her? She may be just what the "system" needs to be able to step away from simply being a child storage facility and return to being an educational system again.
Please do detail how, or are we just playing craps here?