‘If a Heartbeat Is Detected, the Baby Is Protected’

[jimnyc]

Rep. Steve King Files Federal Pro-Life Heartbeat Bill: ‘If a Heartbeat Is Detected, the Baby Is Protected’

Pro-life congressmen stood in front of the Capitol — along with Janet Porter, the Ohio woman who led the fight for passage of that state’s “heartbeat bill” — all in support of Rep. Steve A. King (R.-Iowa) and his Heartbeat Protection Act of 2017, H.R. 490, which restores legal protection to unborn children once their pulse is detected.
“It is a profound religious and moral understanding that every human person has the right to life,” said King, who was joined by Rep. Louie Gohmert (R.-Texas), Rep. Trent Franks (R.-Ariz.), Rep. Scott G. Perry (R.-Pa.), and Rep.Don Bacon R.-Neb.), along with other prolife supporters of the bill.

“The question that has hung before the courts, since 1973 is: ‘When does life begin?’–we all know when that is,” the congressman said.

“We stand here and assert that it has to be a distinctive moment. You can’t guess a thing called viability. You can’t say 22 weeks versus 20 weeks. You have to say it is at a specific instant. The most precise instant that we can describe and that we can identify by science is the moment that that heartbeat begins,” he said.

“The core tenet is this: If a heartbeat can be detected, the baby is protected,” he said.

King, who is the chairman of the Constitution and Civil Justice Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee, said the only exception to the protection for the unborn in the bill is for those circumstances when the life of the mother is in physical danger.

Abortionists who violate the law would face up to five years in prison, he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/01/24/rep-steve-king-files-federal-pro-life-heartbeat-bill-if-a-heartbeat-is-detected-the-baby-is-protected/

[Black Diamond]

Heartbeat is the standard I use. I have actually been crucified by some on the right for this standard.

[NightTrain]

I say conception, but a detected heartbeat is definitely moving in the right direction.

[Black Diamond]

I say conception, but a detected heartbeat is definitely moving in the right direction.
Thank you for not crucifying me. :lol:

[Black Diamond]

I would much rather use conception as the standard than the standards used since 1973.

[NightTrain]

Thank you for not crucifying me. :lol:

I'm really not a prick, contrary to popular belief!


I would much rather use conception as the standard than the standards used since 1973.

I never really thought that abortion would be used as a contraceptive, until I ran across my best friend's widow up in Fairbanks a few years ago. Somehow the subject came up, and she told me she's had like 10 or 12 abortions since he passed away. I was stunned, and asked her why she didn't get on the pill or something, to which she just shrugged and said it was no big deal - in and out! Done!

I haven't talked to her since. It was horrifying to think of.

[Black Diamond]

I'm really not a prick, contrary to popular belief!



I never really thought that abortion would be used as a contraceptive, until I ran across my best friend's widow up in Fairbanks a few years ago. Somehow the subject came up, and she told me she's had like 10 or 12 abortions since he passed away. I was stunned, and asked her why she didn't get on the pill or something, to which she just shrugged and said it was no big deal - in and out! Done!

I haven't talked to her since. It was horrifying to think of.
You're not a prick. I had a debate with a medical doctor once on this issue. He is against using birth control pills that don't prevent implantation, using IUD, etc. I took the heartbeat standard.

I lost the debate. Badly.

[NightTrain]

You're not a prick. I had a debate with a medical doctor once on this issue. He is against using birth control pills that don't prevent implantation, using IUD, etc. I took the heartbeat standard.

I lost the debate. Badly.

So his position was that once the fertilized egg implants in the uterus wall, it's now a human life? I can see the logic in that... I didn't carry it as far as that and just stopped at fertilization, but that's a solid argument. Many eggs never implant as a matter of natural course, from what I understand.

[jimnyc]

I say conception, but a detected heartbeat is definitely moving in the right direction.

I think a heartbeat is detected in 21 days from all I am reading. While it can be better, this would still be a huge step forward, IMO. Personally speaking though, I agree with you. :)

[Black Diamond]

So his position was that once the fertilized egg implants in the uterus wall, it's now a human life? I can see the logic in that... I didn't carry it as far as that and just stopped at fertilization, but that's a solid argument. Many eggs never implant as a matter of natural course, from what I understand.
True.
His points:

He said something about how a fertilized egg has a unique genetic code. And is untouchable.

So he is against the morning after pill, plan B, etc.

he also pretty much said with IUD, you're playing Russian roulette every month.

I'll ask him again.

[aboutime]

There is another way to talk about this, or ask about WHEN a fetus is protected.
Sadly, few, if any people ever consider...when a woman knows she is pregnant, as verified by a doctor. The relationship begins, and the mother, and possibly father, begin to wonder what the gender of their baby is. And..let's not forget. If the baby is carried long enough for that first ULTRASOUND. The parents may even give it a name.

FOR ALL OF YOU READING THIS....even the pro-abortion gang. Wouldn't you know, after hearing the heartbeat, and seeing a human form in the Ultrasound image...KNOW IT WAS ALIVE?
I ask this as a means of also asking...IF YOU KNOW the human being in your belly is alive...WHY WOULD YOU KILL IT? Other than because you are selfish, or just Stupid?

[Black Diamond]

There is another way to talk about this, or ask about WHEN a fetus is protected.
Sadly, few, if any people ever consider...when a woman knows she is pregnant, as verified by a doctor. The relationship begins, and the mother, and possibly father, begin to wonder what the gender of their baby is. And..let's not forget. If the baby is carried long enough for that first ULTRASOUND. The parents may even give it a name.

FOR ALL OF YOU READING THIS....even the pro-abortion gang. Wouldn't you know, after hearing the heartbeat, and seeing a human form in the Ultrasound image...KNOW IT WAS ALIVE?
I ask this as a means of also asking...IF YOU KNOW the human being in your belly is alive...WHY WOULD YOU KILL IT? Other than because you are selfish, or just Stupid?
I think selfish is the winner.

[GravyBoat]

We need more abortions in the United States not less. These religious neocon maniacs will only wind up providing a precedence for Sharia Law in the United States. True Conservatives believe a woman has a god given right to rid herself of her body's burdens.

[NightTrain]

We need more abortions in the United States not less. These religious neocon maniacs will only wind up providing a precedence for Sharia Law in the United States. True Conservatives believe a woman has a god given right to rid herself of her body's burdens.

Fortunately, your opinion doesn't matter.

There's going to be at least 8 years of kicking ass and taking names, and then Pence will take the wheel.

Pretty cool, eh? :thumb:

[Black Diamond]

Fortunately, your opinion doesn't matter.

There's going to be at least 8 years of kicking ass and taking names, and then Pence will take the wheel.

Pretty cool, eh? :thumb:
Amen!!

[fj1200]

Fortunately, your opinion doesn't matter.

Why does his opinion not matter?


We need more abortions in the United States not less. These religious neocon maniacs will only wind up providing a precedence for Sharia Law in the United States. True Conservatives believe a woman has a god given right to rid herself of her body's burdens.

Why is that?

[NightTrain]

Why does his opinion not matter?

Did you observe the results of the 2016 election and who holds all the power?

[fj1200]

Did you observe the results of the 2016 election and who holds all the power?

So he doesn't get an opinion? Interesting.

[jimnyc]

Did you observe the results of the 2016 election and who holds all the power?

Instantly made me think of "show me the money!!!!!" When you win and have power, you get to be like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrag8ll85w

[Abbey Marie]

So he doesn't get an opinion? Interesting.

Where did NT say he doesn't get an opinion? He said his opinion doesn't matter.

[NightTrain]

So he doesn't get an opinion? Interesting.

Where did I say that?

[fj1200]

Where did NT say he doesn't get an opinion? He said his opinion doesn't matter.


Where did I say that?

My mistake. History just repeating itself from 8 years ago. ;)

[NightTrain]

My mistake. History just repeating itself from 8 years ago. ;)

I see.

More dispensation of truth and fact, right?

[fj1200]

I see.

More dispensation of truth and fact, right?

That's more opinion. Grounded in fact though if I had to guess. I do recall people mentioning "ruling" in the past. I don't think they cared about the opinions of others either.

[NightTrain]

That's more opinion. Grounded in fact though if I had to guess.

What makes you think so?


I do recall people mentioning "ruling" in the past. I don't think they cared about the opinions of others either.

Who would they be?

[bullypulpit]

Well, Jimmy, I'll believe these Republican misogynists are really concerned about preventing abortions when they fund age appropriate sex education in schools; make contraceptives easier, not harder to get; and stop trying to defund Planned Parenthood. Until then, it's just all bullshit to drive women back into the status of chattel.

[GravyBoat]

Fortunately, your opinion doesn't matter.

There's going to be at least 8 years of kicking ass and taking names, and then Pence will take the wheel.

Pretty cool, eh? :thumb:

My opinion doesn't matter, to you, but the Supreme Court's opinion matters to us all, and nobody's going to abolish abortion. In fact, when this country was founded, women were free to get an abortion at any time, there was no phony baloney "state interest" in the matter. The 1890's began the time of tyranny against parents as the government sought to define "family" as a means to convert sovereign citizens into mere chattel. Abortion is a god given right, the state has no legitimate interest in limiting the procedure. Cannon fodder is the only reason Republicans oppose abortion.

This administration is going to self-destruct shortly, thus ensuring unaltered Democrat rule, thus ensuring the complete and utter ruination of the United States of America.

[NightTrain]

My opinion doesn't matter, to you, but the Supreme Court's opinion matters to us all, and nobody's going to abolish abortion. In fact, when this country was founded, women were free to get an abortion at any time, there was no phony baloney "state interest" in the matter. The 1890's began the time of tyranny against parents as the government sought to define "family" as a means to convert sovereign citizens into mere chattel. Abortion is a god given right, the state has no legitimate interest in limiting the procedure.

Can you point me to one reference in the bible (or any major religious text, for that matter) where it says that women have the right to kill their unborn babies?

As far as the SCOTUS goes, are you aware that President Trump is going to pick at least two Justices? Do you have any inkling as to what that portends?


Cannon fodder is the only reason Republicans oppose abortion.

Where did you get this startling information? I missed where any Republican stated this.

C'mon, little fella... tell Uncle NT the truth that you made that up. Don't be skeered. You'll feel right as rain after confession.


This administration is going to self-destruct shortly, thus ensuring unaltered Democrat rule, thus ensuring the complete and utter ruination of the United States of America.

:laugh:

It's off to a pretty awesome start, Gravyboy!

Have you taken a look at the beautiful trajectory your Party of Losers has taken for the better part of a decade? No? Well, let's take a look - you'll love this :

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9656&stc=1

Additionally, there are 10 democrat Senate seats up for reelection in 2018 in states that Trump won. This is looking very promising for the Good Guys, don't you think?

[Abbey Marie]

My opinion doesn't matter, to you, but the Supreme Court's opinion matters to us all, and nobody's going to abolish abortion. In fact, when this country was founded, women were free to get an abortion at any time, there was no phony baloney "state interest" in the matter. The 1890's began the time of tyranny against parents as the government sought to define "family" as a means to convert sovereign citizens into mere chattel. Abortion is a god given right, the state has no legitimate interest in limiting the procedure. Cannon fodder is the only reason Republicans oppose abortion.

This administration is going to self-destruct shortly, thus ensuring unaltered Democrat rule, thus ensuring the complete and utter ruination of the United States of America.

Oh, is it now?

"Thou shalt not Murder" - Commandment #6
-God

(Exodus 20:2-17)

[aboutime]

Well, Jimmy, I'll believe these Republican misogynists are really concerned about preventing abortions when they fund age appropriate sex education in schools; make contraceptives easier, not harder to get; and stop trying to defund Planned Parenthood. Until then, it's just all bullshit to drive women back into the status of chattel.

NEWSFLASH, NEWSFLASH....for bully. PLANNED PARENTHOOD....as of yesterday, 24 jan, 2017, was DEFUNDED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

BULLY..THIS IS FOR YOU...
http://youtu.be/55Axawaz2As
Guess you missed it here on DP.
Bully. Still waiting to learn WHO'S NAVY you claim to have been in?

[gabosaurus]

Republicans are against abortion, birth control and sex education. What option does that give women?
Republicans are will to do anything to outlaw abortion, yet they refuse to pass legislation that tracks down deadbeat dads and forces them to pay child support. Which means that men can escape their responsibilities, but women can not.
Republicans are very protective of unborn babies. But once the baby is born, it can rot in hell as far as the GOP is concerned. Not every child is born into a wealthy family living in a big house with a white picket fence out front.

[NightTrain]

Republicans are against abortion, birth control and sex education. What option does that give women?
Republicans are will to do anything to outlaw abortion, yet they refuse to pass legislation that tracks down deadbeat dads and forces them to pay child support. Which means that men can escape their responsibilities, but women can not.
Republicans are very protective of unborn babies. But once the baby is born, it can rot in hell as far as the GOP is concerned. Not every child is born into a wealthy family living in a big house with a white picket fence out front.

Sources?

[gabosaurus]

Read the proposed legislation and you will find it. It's all men trying to legislate women's rights.

[NightTrain]

Read the proposed legislation and you will find it. It's all men trying to legislate women's rights.

You made the assertions.

Sources?

[pete311]

So the sophistication/sensitivity of technology is what runs our morality?

[Black Diamond]

So the sophistication/sensitivity of technology is what runs our morality?
In many ways. Yes.

[pete311]

In many ways. Yes.

So a rural doctor with older tech can abort an older fetus then a big city doc with new tech?

[Black Diamond]

So a rural doctor with older tech can abort an older fetus then a big city doc with new tech?
I was speaking to your statement, not the op

[pete311]

I was speaking to your statement, not the op

In what other ways does technology decide our morality?

[Black Diamond]

In what other ways does technology decide our morality?
You can give in to temptation in 3 clicks or fewer. And no one has to know.

[pete311]

n/a

[Black Diamond]

I don't know what this riddle means
It's not a riddle. Hopefully other posters will interject.

[pete311]

You can give in to temptation in 3 clicks or fewer. And no one has to know.
This is different. The arbitrary sophistication of the device is what determines when the fetus is protected. So morality is on a sliding scale. A principle should be set independent of technological circumstances. I don't see how a person being able to visit a porn site in 3 clicks has any relevance.

[pete311]

My point is that just because a heartbeat can't be detected doesn't mean it doesn't exist. At some stage in the development the first few cells of the heart will beat. That can't yet be detected outside of a very high tech lab, certainly not in hospitals. So are you ok with murdering fetuses just because our current technology can't detect the heartbeat sooner. Think about in 20 years maybe it's a common tech, you'll look back and think wow we killed a lot of fetuses.

[NightTrain]

My point is that just because a heartbeat can't be detected doesn't mean it doesn't exist. At some stage in the development the first few cells of the heart will beat. That can't yet be detected outside of a very high tech lab, certainly not in hospitals. So are you ok with murdering fetuses just because our current technology can't detect the heartbeat sooner. Think about in 20 years maybe it's a common tech, you'll look back and think wow we killed a lot of fetuses.

That's why conception is the proper answer.

[Black Diamond]

My point is that just because a heartbeat can't be detected doesn't mean it doesn't exist. At some stage in the development the first few cells of the heart will beat. That can't yet be detected outside of a very high tech lab, certainly not in hospitals. So are you ok with murdering fetuses just because our current technology can't detect the heartbeat sooner. Think about in 20 years maybe it's a common tech, you'll look back and think wow we killed a lot of fetuses.
Good points. Let's go with conception as the standard instead of a heartbeat.

[Gunny]

Good points. Let's go with conception as the standard instead of a heartbeat.

Let's try this: life is precious. Appreciate the minutes you have with the ones you love. You never know when they will be your last.

To murder a child who never asked to be brought into this world is the ultimate sin to me. "Did I request thee Maker to make me Man ....?'

[aboutime]

Sources?



Maybe somebody should remind gabby. CLOSING ONE'S LEGS, and NOT BEING SO FREE TO HAVE SEX, FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING SEX, would help.
As for forced, raped, or unwanted pregnancies. A majority of the Unwanted, come from LACK OF EDUCATION, NO FAMILY RESOURCES...like caring parents (2), and avoiding the need to bear children because it HELPS EARN FEDERAL/STATE dollars through ignorance.

[Balu]

From the first glance the criteria seems to be good, but controversial. For a example in China, Japan and some other Asian countries conception is a birthday. So, someone are violating and don't respect the traditions of the others on the racial or religious reasons.
Shame on them!!!

[Abbey Marie]

From the first glance the criteria seems to be good, but controversial. For a example in China, Japan and some other Asian countries conception is a birthday. So, someone are violating and don't respect the traditions of the others on the racial or religious reasons.
Shame on them!!!

Is abortion illegal in Russia?

[Balu]

Is abortion illegal in Russia?
It is legal but not approved by Society and doctors who are trying to do their best to tell a woman from this. Besides there may be medical reasons.
In the USSR abortion was illegal since 1936 till 1955.

[bullypulpit]

I say conception, but a detected heartbeat is definitely moving in the right direction.

A little basic reproductive biology...More than fifty percent of fertilized eggs...life by your definition...fail to implant in the uterine wall. Now this begs a question. Are women who take hormonal birth control, which prevent a fertilized egg...again, life by your definition... from implanting in the uterine wall guilty of murder? To take this question to its logical end, "Are barrier contraceptives...diaphragms and condoms...tantamount to murder since they prevent the union of sperm and egg?"
Y'all REALLY need to think this through a little better before you say something stupid like "Life begins at conception."
Of course, the anti-abortion movement has never been about protecting ANY life, unborn or actual. It is about unwarranted interference in the lives of women with the intent of reducing women to the status of chattel...again.

[NightTrain]

A little basic reproductive biology...More than fifty percent of fertilized eggs...life by your definition...fail to implant in the uterine wall. Now this begs a question. Are women who take hormonal birth control, which prevent a fertilized egg...again, life by your definition... from implanting in the uterine wall guilty of murder? To take this question to its logical end, "Are barrier contraceptives...diaphragms and condoms...tantamount to murder since they prevent the union of sperm and egg?"
Y'all REALLY need to think this through a little better before you say something stupid like "Life begins at conception."

This is the part where you read through the whole thread, Speedy. Already discussed.

Dismissed.



Of course, the anti-abortion movement has never been about protecting ANY life, unborn or actual. It is about unwarranted interference in the lives of women with the intent of reducing women to the status of chattel...again.

It's about protecting an innocent human life, moonbat. Nothing less.

[Gunny]

This is the part where you read through the whole thread, Speedy. Already discussed.

Dismissed.




It's about protecting an innocent human life, moonbat. Nothing less.


Yet it's these same leftists that protest military personnel and call US the babykillers.

[NightTrain]

Yet it's these same leftists that protest military personnel and call US the babykillers.

Another glaring example of hypocrisy.

Piss and moan about blowing up a terrorist, but demand that our own babies are butchered.

If ever there were a group most guilty of not thinking things through, liberals are the very definition.

[fj1200]

What makes you think so?

All that "we won, get over it" type talk.


Who would they be?

BO supporters and at least one administration official IIRC.

[fj1200]

So the sophistication/sensitivity of technology is what runs our morality?

No. It only helps ascertain certain milestones with increased clarity.

[Gunny]

Republicans are against abortion, birth control and sex education. What option does that give women?
Republicans are will to do anything to outlaw abortion, yet they refuse to pass legislation that tracks down deadbeat dads and forces them to pay child support. Which means that men can escape their responsibilities, but women can not.
Republicans are very protective of unborn babies. But once the baby is born, it can rot in hell as far as the GOP is concerned. Not every child is born into a wealthy family living in a big house with a white picket fence out front.

You mean like where you were born and raised? Your theory doesn't wash and this as nothing to do with Republicans. I notice most of you high high-minded lefties seem to live behind those white picket fences. So caring and kind. While committing murder in name of "women's rights".

So where exactly is the MAN's Rights? You decide to have the baby and he has to pay no matter what. You decide to murder the baby and the father wants it. WHERE ARE HIS RIGHTS?

And which color states do deadbeat dads run to? They sure as Hell don't come here. For all the BS technology we have, and you lefties foisting the Federal government on everyone and into our lives, where's your FEDERAL legislation and data base for deadbeat dads? You can get after our tax money well enough.

This is about personal responsibility and accountability on BOTH sides. You want so-called "womens rights"? You have the right to not spread your damned legs.

[Kathianne]

Watching the 'March for Life' on C-Span. Pence gave a very good speech. “When it comes to matters of the heart, there is nothing stronger than gentleness.”

Another speaker spoke of 1m abortions a year, but only 22k infant adoptions. That is an area I have concerns with. Catholic Charities has always done good work regarding life and adoptions. BUT, not everyone wants to go to a Catholic organization.

Seems to me that the Pro-life movement should take a page out of NT's suggestion to Noir and Pete to donate to abortions, since PP is being defunded.

Those that are pro-life should find ways to help women that want to keep their child and those that want to avail themselves to adoption. In either case, the woman needs support.

[Gunny]

Watching the 'March for Life' on C-Span. Pence gave a very good speech. “When it comes to matters of the heart, there is nothing stronger than gentleness.”

Another speaker spoke of 1m abortions a year, but only 22k infant adoptions. That is an area I have concerns with. Catholic Charities has always done good work regarding life and adoptions. BUT, not everyone wants to go to a Catholic organization.

Seems to me that the Pro-life movement should take a page out of NT's suggestion to Noir and Pete to donate to abortions, since PP is being defunded.

Those that are pro-life should find ways to help women that want to keep their child and those that want to avail themselves to adoption. In either case, the woman needs support.

Saint Judes is another. And no, I'm not Jewish. I would adopt a child in a minute if I could care for one. All these high-minded people need a good dose of a trip to Africa. They talk a good game but guess who you DON'T see when you're there? Any do-gooder leftwingers. Saw a nunch of Sailors and Marines giving the children everything we had each time, Just another false front from them.

[Kathianne]

Saint Judes is another. And no, I'm not Jewish. I would adopt a child in a minute if I could care for one. All these high-minded people need a good dose of a trip to Africa. They talk a good game but guess who you DON'T see when you're there? Any do-gooder leftwingers. Saw a nunch of Sailors and Marines giving the children everything we had each time, Just another false front from them.

I didn't know that St. Judes had anything to do with adoption! It's not a Jewish organization, that I do know.

[Gunny]

I didn't know that St. Judes had anything to do with adoption! It's not a Jewish organization, that I do know.

It is a Jewish organization. Founded by Danny Thomas. I don't know that they have anything to do with adoption. They treat children. If you don't have the money to pay, they treat children. You don't get a bill.

I was mainly commenting on you mentioning religion, not at you. What does it matter who you reach out and give a hand up to? All of my hand me downs go to St Vincent Depaul which I know is Catholic. I have a problem with issue because I feel the same as some goofball comedian I saw on the tube: If I have to talk about it, it's not really giving. I've given lots of time and stuff to charity and never asked for anything in return.

I know what it's like to live out of the back seat of your car and not know where your next meal is coming from. And I haven't forgotten what it feels like.

[Kathianne]

It is a Jewish organization. Founded by Danny Thomas. I don't know that they have anything to do with adoption. They treat children. If you don't have the money to pay, they treat children. You don't get a bill.

I was mainly commenting on you mentioning religion, not at you. What does it matter who you reach out and give a hand up to? All of my hand me downs go to St Vincent Depaul which I know is Catholic. I have a problem with issue because I feel the same as some goofball comedian I saw on the tube: If I have to talk about it, it's not really giving. I've given lots of time and stuff to charity and never asked for anything in return.

I know what it's like to live out of the back seat of your car and not know where your next meal is coming from. And I haven't forgotten what it feels like.

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Early life. One of 10 children, Danny Thomas was born as Amos Muzyad Yakhoob Kairouz on January 6, 1912, in Deerfield, Michigan, to Charles Yakhoob Kairouz and his wife Margaret Taouk. His parents were Maronite Catholic immigrants from Lebanon.

Danny Thomas - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Thomas)<cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Thomas</cite>











He was Lebanese, not Jewish. ;)

I understand where you and coming from, though I was addressing the idea that 'pro-life' folks should support women that choose life, through some organization or another. I brought up Catholic Charities for the simple reason they have a long, long history of helping unwed mothers and facilitating adoptions. The only reason I suggested some other type of organization is that while Catholic Charities doesn't care what religion the mother is, some folks have serious issues with Catholic anything.

Shocking, but many people are pro-life and not Catholic. :)

[gabosaurus]

You mean like where you were born and raised? Your theory doesn't wash and this as nothing to do with Republicans. I notice most of you high high-minded lefties seem to live behind those white picket fences. So caring and kind. While committing murder in name of "women's rights".

So where exactly is the MAN's Rights? You decide to have the baby and he has to pay no matter what. You decide to murder the baby and the father wants it. WHERE ARE HIS RIGHTS?

And which color states do deadbeat dads run to? They sure as Hell don't come here. For all the BS technology we have, and you lefties foisting the Federal government on everyone and into our lives, where's your FEDERAL legislation and data base for deadbeat dads? You can get after our tax money well enough.

This is about personal responsibility and accountability on BOTH sides. You want so-called "womens rights"? You have the right to not spread your damned legs.

Typical clueless male. Your closeted military life has left you with zero clue about how people on the other side live.
The male does not have to pay "no matter what." A large number bail out and are never heard from again. There is no federal legislation and data base for deadbeat dad because the majority of lawmakers are male and they don't want to deal with it.
When the male carries a child for nine months and then delivers it, then he can have rights.
So tell me, Gunny, how many nights did you wake up and care for your child? How many diapers did you change? How many baths did you give? How many meals did you prepare? When you divorced your wife, did you pay child support? How often did you watch over the child 24/7? You know nothing and are a hypocrite for even bringing it up?

Many women HAVE taken advantage of their "right to not spread your damned legs."
They have ended up raped or beaten up. Husbands have taken their refusal as a right to have affairs, or divorce them and disappear. Women don't have that choice. They can't simply abandon their children like men can.

Wealthy and powerful men like Trump can easily dump their wives and find replacements who are younger and more attractive. They have lawyers get rid of their past.
How many of you have done the same thing? Abandoned your previous wives because you couldn't hack it? Most women don't have that choice.

[Gunny]

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Early life. One of 10 children, Danny Thomas was born as Amos Muzyad Yakhoob Kairouz on January 6, 1912, in Deerfield, Michigan, to Charles Yakhoob Kairouz and his wife Margaret Taouk. His parents were Maronite Catholic immigrants from Lebanon.

Danny Thomas - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Thomas)

<cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Thomas</cite>











He was Lebanese, not Jewish. ;)

I understand where you and coming from, though I was addressing the idea that 'pro-life' folks should support women that choose life, through some organization or another. I brought up Catholic Charities for the simple reason they have a long, long history of helping unwed mothers and facilitating adoptions. The only reason I suggested some other type of organization is that while Catholic Charities doesn't care what religion the mother is, some folks have serious issues with Catholic anything.

Shocking, but many people are pro-life and not Catholic. :)

I honestly never looked to see who was what. I know Christopher Lambert (Highlander) does the commercials. Can't miss that voice. I know at my church, if you are an unwed mother, everyone chips in and pays for almost everything you need to have a baby. And I'm Southern Baptist. I give to 2 charities -- ones I know the money goes toward the people not paychecks.

[Gunny]

Typical clueless male. Your closeted military life has left you with zero clue about how people on the other side live.
The male does not have to pay "no matter what." A large number bail out and are never heard from again. There is no federal legislation and data base for deadbeat dad because the majority of lawmakers are male and they don't want to deal with it.
When the male carries a child for nine months and then delivers it, then he can have rights.
So tell me, Gunny, how many nights did you wake up and care for your child? How many diapers did you change? How many baths did you give? How many meals did you prepare? When you divorced your wife, did you pay child support? How often did you watch over the child 24/7? You know nothing and are a hypocrite for even bringing it up?

Many women HAVE taken advantage of their "right to not spread your damned legs."
They have ended up raped or beaten up. Husbands have taken their refusal as a right to have affairs, or divorce them and disappear. Women don't have that choice. They can't simply abandon their children like men can.

Wealthy and powerful men like Trump can easily dump their wives and find replacements who are younger and more attractive. They have lawyers get rid of their past.
How many of you have done the same thing? Abandoned your previous wives because you couldn't hack it? Most women don't have that choice.

You want to start mudslinging, typical dumbass leftwinger? I raised my daughter on my own while in active duty. So shut your responsibility dodging mouth. I didn't have to.

I had a deadbeat MOM. Dumped us right on my grandparents. She got custody solely because of the lopsided laws back then. It sure as Hell wasn't because she was responsible. She just took the money that my RESPONSIBLE FATHER showed up with like clockwork.

Whine to someone else.

[aboutime]

Typical clueless male. Your closeted military life has left you with zero clue about how people on the other side live.
The male does not have to pay "no matter what." A large number bail out and are never heard from again. There is no federal legislation and data base for deadbeat dad because the majority of lawmakers are male and they don't want to deal with it.
When the male carries a child for nine months and then delivers it, then he can have rights.
So tell me, Gunny, how many nights did you wake up and care for your child? How many diapers did you change? How many baths did you give? How many meals did you prepare? When you divorced your wife, did you pay child support? How often did you watch over the child 24/7? You know nothing and are a hypocrite for even bringing it up?

Many women HAVE taken advantage of their "right to not spread your damned legs."
They have ended up raped or beaten up. Husbands have taken their refusal as a right to have affairs, or divorce them and disappear. Women don't have that choice. They can't simply abandon their children like men can.

Wealthy and powerful men like Trump can easily dump their wives and find replacements who are younger and more attractive. They have lawyers get rid of their past.
How many of you have done the same thing? Abandoned your previous wives because you couldn't hack it? Most women don't have that choice.


gabby. You really are a DUMB ASS, HYPOCRITE. Even with my 30 years in the Navy. I have only been married to One Real Lady...unlike you, and your hate-filled, liberal, brainwashed, IMPURE SELF, MIND, and WASTE OF SPACE.