Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

[revelarts]

President Donald Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

President Donald Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood | LifeNews.com (http://www.lifenews.com/2017/01/23/president-donald-trump-signs-executive-order-to-defund-international-planned-parenthood/)

Most pro-life Americans are anxiously awaiting Congress to pass a bill to defund the Planned Parenthood abortion business. While that defunding legislation concerns the domestic-based Planned Parenthood abortion corporation, President Trump has the ability to put in place an executive order that would revoke funding for its International affiliate.

When pro-abortion former President Barack Obama took office, Obama overturned a policy that prevented funding of groups that promote or perform abortions overseas. The Mexico City Policy covered over $400 million in federal funds, part of which flowed to the abortion businesses International Planned Parenthood and Marie Stopes International for their foreign efforts.

As LifeNews.com reported, the pro-life policy had been in place during the entirety of the Bush administration and Obama rescinded it on his first week in office. Named for a 1984 population conference where President Reagan initially announced it, the Mexico City Policy made it so family planning funds could only go to groups that would agree to not do abortions or lobby foreign nations to overturn their pro-life laws.

Today, Trump restored the Mexico City Policy by executive order.

The Executive Memorandum to reinstate the Mexico City Policy stops taxpayer funding of groups that perform and promote abortions overseas but does not stop non-abortion international assistance....

[Noir]

This is a policy which is constantly being batted in and out of place.

"but does not stop non-abortion international assistance...."

Kinda. It stops assistance from groups that could provide non-abortion assistance to someone but are unable to do so because they could give abortive assistance.

[CSM]

Why should US citizens fund abortions for citizens of OTHER countries?

[Noir]

Why should US citizens fund abortions for citizens of OTHER countries?

Why stop there? Why fund contraception and sex education?

[CSM]

Why stop there? Why fund contraception and sex education?

In foreign countries? Why should the US fund ANYTHING that those countries' governments should fund? I bet you won't see a million woman march in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or any other country for that matter and NO women dressing themselves like female genitalia in those countries either...

Noir, stick to spending UK money for your causes and leave MY money alone!

[Noir]

In foreign countries? Why should the US fund ANYTHING...

Exactly my point, funding foreign abortions is equivalent to funding foreign anything, if that's your way of thinking.

[Elessar]

Exactly my point, funding foreign abortions is equivalent to funding foreign anything, if that's your way of thinking.

Noir, you stick you nose into everything here but are not even a citizen.
You should petition Parliament to assign you as a UN ambassador so you
might be an influence or have some significance.

It is what it is...Fix the UK and Ireland first.

[Noir]

Noir, you stick you nose into everything here but are not even a citizen.
You should petition Parliament to assign you as a UN ambassador so you
might be an influence or have some significance.

It is what it is...Fix the UK and Ireland first.

Nothing gets me through a chilly evening quite like knowing even my mere participation is such an affront.
Also the topic isn't about me but thanks for the recognition (:

[pete311]

Why should US citizens fund abortions for citizens of OTHER countries?

So you are against foreign aid in general?

[Abbey Marie]

President Donald Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

President Donald Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood | LifeNews.com (http://www.lifenews.com/2017/01/23/president-donald-trump-signs-executive-order-to-defund-international-planned-parenthood/)

Most pro-life Americans are anxiously awaiting Congress to pass a bill to defund the Planned Parenthood abortion business. While that defunding legislation concerns the domestic-based Planned Parenthood abortion corporation, President Trump has the ability to put in place an executive order that would revoke funding for its International affiliate.

When pro-abortion former President Barack Obama took office, Obama overturned a policy that prevented funding of groups that promote or perform abortions overseas. The Mexico City Policy covered over $400 million in federal funds, part of which flowed to the abortion businesses International Planned Parenthood and Marie Stopes International for their foreign efforts.

As LifeNews.com reported, the pro-life policy had been in place during the entirety of the Bush administration and Obama rescinded it on his first week in office. Named for a 1984 population conference where President Reagan initially announced it, the Mexico City Policy made it so family planning funds could only go to groups that would agree to not do abortions or lobby foreign nations to overturn their pro-life laws.

Today, Trump restored the Mexico City Policy by executive order.

The Executive Memorandum to reinstate the Mexico City Policy stops taxpayer funding of groups that perform and promote abortions overseas but does not stop non-abortion international assistance....


https://cdn.meme.am/instances/36328774.jpg

[jimnyc]

Oh well, such a shame, I guess foreigners as well will have to learn "personal responsibility".

[pete311]

Oh well, such a shame, I guess foreigners as well will have to learn "personal responsibility".

Fuck man you are out of touch. Go to some slums in India that depend of organizations like this for women's health. Tell them they all have to learn personal responsibility. You don't know jack shit about what's happening.

[jimnyc]

Fuck man you are out of touch. Go to some slums in India that depend of organizations like this for women's health. Tell them they all have to learn personal responsibility. You don't know jack shit about what's happening.

Oh well, no money for them then. And I have no desire to discuss anything with you when you jump into asshole mode.

So now they can learn personal responsibility AND banking. :)

[Abbey Marie]

Fuck man you are out of touch. Go to some slums in India that depend of organizations like this for women's health. Tell them they all have to learn personal responsibility. You don't know jack shit about what's happening.

1. They will still get funding for actual "health" services if they stop offering abortions.
2. I am 100% confident that the 50% of babies who are female and not aborted, will have an immediate uptick in their "health"

[CSM]

So you are against foreign aid in general?

you got it....especially foreign aid for things that countries SHOULD fund for themselves like education, medical care, etc. Before you ask, I am against military aid to foreign countries as well.

[pete311]

Oh well, no money for them then. And I have no desire to discuss anything with you when you jump into asshole mode.

So now they can learn personal responsibility AND banking. :)

You yourself are in permanent asshole mode when you are so callous sitting comfy in your white american privilege. If you fuck heads did any amount of volunteering in these third world countries that depend on these programs you'd have an ounce of humanity in your bones. You guys sit here and judge, but have no idea.

[CSM]

You yourself are in permanent asshole mode when you are so callous sitting comfy in your white american privilege. If you fuck heads did any amount of volunteering in these third world countries that depend on these programs you'd have an ounce of humanity in your bones. You guys sit here and judge, but have no idea.

So I take it you are posting from India?

I am pretty sure I have been to far more third world countries than most members of this little clique. And no I don't have any of your kind of "humanity" in my bones ... deal with it... or not. I don't give a rats ass about the denizens of the slums of India. Let their government take care of them. Maybe you can send their national leaders a nice little letter or email and convince them to spend their own damned money to provide them abortions. Heck, maybe Noir can send a few bushels of veggies too.

[jimnyc]

You yourself are in permanent asshole mode when you are so callous sitting comfy in your white american privilege. If you fuck heads did any amount of volunteering in these third world countries that depend on these programs you'd have an ounce of humanity in your bones. You guys sit here and judge, but have no idea.

Oh well. Go spend your money and live there, and hopefully get malaria or something like it.

[pete311]

So I take it you are posting from India?

I am pretty sure I have been to far more third world countries than most members of this little clique. And no I don't have any of your kind of "humanity" in my bones ... deal with it... or not. I don't give a rats ass about the denizens of the slums of India. Let their government take care of them. Maybe you can send their national leaders a nice little letter or email and convince them to spend their own damned money to provide them abortions. Heck, maybe Noir can send a few bushels of veggies too.

The bill was not about funding abortions. It was about defunding organizations that supported abortions. From what I can tell the money is not spent on abortions.

Something that is pretty clear with you guys wanting protectionism and isolationism is that we aren't in the 18 century anymore. We are a global community. Back out of that community and the world and we suffer. You can't turn you back on the world, put up walls and expect to not suffer as well. We are all connected.

[CSM]

The bill was not about funding abortions. It was about defunding organizations that supported abortions. From what I can tell the money is not spent on abortions.

Something that is pretty clear with you guys wanting protectionism and isolationism is that we aren't in the 18 century anymore. We are a global community. Back out of that community and the world and we suffer. You can't turn you back on the world, put up walls and expect to not suffer as well. We are all connected.

For me, it is about spending money in foreign countries that should be put to use here. I disagree about the whole "global community" argument. I am all for agreements and treaties between nations as long as they benefit MY nation. When they are a detriment to this country, they need to go. And yes, I am a nationalist....USA First!!!

[pete311]

For me, it is about spending money in foreign countries that should be put to use here. I disagree about the whole "global community" argument. I am all for agreements and treaties between nations as long as they benefit MY nation. When they are a detriment to this country, they need to go. And yes, I am a nationalist....USA First!!!

How do you think the US asserts control over other nations? With a pretty please? Hell no, we shove money at them. You take away foreign aid and basically take our only bargaining chip. China is looking to own Africa and South America with all their investments in those countries. The US will be all alone. You either connect or become weak.

[Abbey Marie]

How do you think the US asserts control over other nations? With a pretty please? Hell no, we shove money at them. You take away foreign aid and basically take our only bargaining chip. China is looking to own Africa and South America with all their investments in those countries. The US will be all alone. You either connect or become weak.


Isn't it nice that we are making policy based on integrity for a change?

I thought you libs hated American hegemony. Now all of a sudden you like it?

[CSM]

How do you think the US asserts control over other nations? With a pretty please? Hell no, we shove money at them. You take away foreign aid and basically take our only bargaining chip. China is looking to own Africa and South America with all their investments in those countries. The US will be all alone. You either connect or become weak.

Good. Let China have Africa and South America.... I definitely disagree with YOUR foreign policy. I would rather have friends I don't have to buy. If Africa and South America decide they WANT china to own them then so be it.

[pete311]

Isn't it nice that we are making policy based on integrity for a change?

I thought you libs hated American hegemony. Now all of a sudden you like it?

lol, slow down, you're drinking that kool aid too fast. Integrity, threats of 35% tariff is integrity?

[CSM]

lol, slow down, you're drinking that kool aid too fast. Integrity, threats of 35% tariff is integrity?

Everyone has their own brand of kool aid.... some of us don't like your brand.

[pete311]

Good. Let China have Africa and South America.... I definitely disagree with YOUR foreign policy. I would rather have friends I don't have to buy. If Africa and South America decide they WANT china to own them then so be it.

Really cute stuff here, now go play with your toys

[CSM]

Really cute stuff here, now go play with your toys

That is exactly what I am doing right now!

[Trigg]

We are 20 TRILLION in debt. There have to be cuts somewhere!!


Why are we trying to be the worlds babysitter? India can take care of it self.

[pete311]

We are 20 TRILLION in debt. There have to be cuts somewhere!!


Why are we trying to be the worlds babysitter? India can take care of it self.

This was a $600M cut that did a lot of good. Nice job trimming the fat.

[Trigg]

This was a $600M cut that did a lot of good. Nice job trimming the fat. It's call a good start, those muti-million dollar cuts add up. Should we just throw up our hands and say "oh well", how about we freeze spending for a while like Obama. That does NOTHING, and has done nothing through far to many presidencies.

[pete311]

It's call a good start, those muti-million dollar cuts add up. Should we just throw up our hands and say "oh well", how about we freeze spending for a while like Obama. That does NOTHING, and has done nothing through far to many presidencies.

Oh please, it's got nothing to do with paying down the debt and you know it. You don't look at a wrecked car and replace the radio volume knob and say to yourself "well it's a good start".

[Trigg]

Oh please, it's got nothing to do with paying down the debt and you know it. You don't look at a wrecked car and replace the radio volume knob and say to yourself "well it's a good start". So the US debt is like a wrecked car lol.

Yes if the wrecked car is the only one I will ever have and can't be replaced. You bet your ass I am going to do everything I can to keep it together.

together with the 600 million we will save with this cut and Trump's salary that he isn't taking. that is 1 BILLION dollars already saved in ONLY 2 days. Yep that's a pretty damn good start.

[pete311]

So the US debt is like a wrecked car lol.

Yes if the wrecked car is the only one I will ever have and can't be replaced. You bet your ass I am going to do everything I can to keep it together.

together with the 600 million we will save with this cut and Trump's salary that he isn't taking. that is 1 BILLION dollars already saved in ONLY 2 days. Yep that's a pretty damn good start.

You have not fully realized such numbers then if you think that is a good start. Really understand how much $19T is. Saving $1B in two days you are still out $200M+ since our interest payments are $616M a day!

[NightTrain]

Well, Petey and Noir, you two generous fellows should start sending money to abortion providers worldwide. Wouldn't want to get in the way of your murderous charity. Keep us posted on how much you send, will you? I'm genuinely curious how much of your own money you're willing to pony up to keep the butchers in business.

And this is just the start. Start winding up for the epic moaning you'll do when American abortionists get all fed funding removed. :thumb:

[Black Diamond]

In my opinion, butch control and abortion are two very different things.

[Kathianne]

Well, Petey and Noir, you two generous fellows should start sending money to abortion providers worldwide. Wouldn't want to get in the way of your murderous charity. Keep us posted on how much you send, will you? I'm genuinely curious how much of your own money you're willing to pony up to keep the butchers in business.

And this is just the start. Start winding up for the epic moaning you'll do when American abortionists get all fed funding removed. :thumb:

Actually a very good idea, though perhaps they'd just like to call it 'supporting choice for all who want it,' or something. I support those who wish to donate to whatever causes they think worthy of their support. I disagree with abortion and don't want to support it. I support others' right though to send their money in for any amount.

Speaking of spending, I do hope that many things that are now receiving federal tax dollars will be defunded. Those dollars should be returned to the states, that can spend them on the programs they determine are most beneficial to their citizens, without the $$$ missing by the extra federal step.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You have not fully realized such numbers then if you think that is a good start. Really understand how much $19T is. Saving $1B in two days you are still out $200M+ since our interest payments are $616M a day!

Obama(and his dem party) in his 8 years, saw to it that we went into debt doubling the amount(doubling those trillions in 8 short years) accumulated by all the previous Presidents combined.
I've seen not a word from you criticizing him and his trillion dollar spending..
Can you even spell the word-- hypocrite....????

Now that he and his administration--DOUBLED IT-- you spout off that ffng line!!!--:mad:
WITH NARY A WORD WHEN YOUR MONKEY-BOY PUPPET WAS DOING THE DAMN GLOBALIST'S BIDDINGS!-:mad:-TYR

[fj1200]

So the US debt is like a wrecked car lol.

Yes if the wrecked car is the only one I will ever have and can't be replaced. You bet your ass I am going to do everything I can to keep it together.

together with the 600 million we will save with this cut and Trump's salary that he isn't taking. that is 1 BILLION dollars already saved in ONLY 2 days. Yep that's a pretty damn good start.

Umm, the POTUS doesn't make $400 million.

[Noir]

Well, Petey and Noir, you two generous fellows should start sending money to abortion providers worldwide. Wouldn't want to get in the way of your murderous charity. Keep us posted on how much you send, will you? I'm genuinely curious how much of your own money you're willing to pony up to keep the butchers in business.

And this is just the start. Start winding up for the epic moaning you'll do when American abortionists get all fed funding removed. :thumb:

A charity I have donated to and support is Medecins Sans Frontieres, who provide -among other medics services- abortion and contraception support to women in need.

[NightTrain]

A charity I have donated to and support is Medecins Sans Frontieres, who provide -among other medics services- abortion and contraception support to women in need.

So, about how many babies are you financially responsible for killing so far? How much have you given? We can probably come up with a number.

[Noir]

So, about how many babies are you financially responsible for killing so far? How much have you given? We can probably come up with a number.

Babies? That would be zero.

[NightTrain]

Babies? That would be zero.

But you just said you financially support abortion providers.

[Noir]

But you just said you financially support abortion providers.

Fun fact - a baby is not created at conception (:

Also I forgot to add I worked for several years for the Red Cross, who also support the right to abortion.

[NightTrain]

Fun fact - a baby is not created at conception (:

Also I forgot to add I worked for several years for the Red Cross, who also support the right to abortion.

Oh.

So, if you aren't killing babies, what are you killing, then?

[Noir]

Oh.

So, if you aren't killing babies, what are you killing, then?

"Killing" implies "living" nothing is being killed if nothing is alive.

[jimnyc]

There are a lot of countries in our world. How much are the others forking over, and which countries? Why can't others divide up the money and let others pay? Either that, or setup a system - worldwide - where folks that want to opt-in, like Noir, and privatize any help they think they want to give other countries for abortions. Problem solved.

[NightTrain]

"Killing" implies "living" nothing is being killed if nothing is alive.

I see.

So, at what age does a fetus begin living?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

You yourself are in permanent asshole mode when you are so callous sitting comfy in your white american privilege. If you fuck heads did any amount of volunteering in these third world countries that depend on these programs you'd have an ounce of humanity in your bones. You guys sit here and judge, but have no idea.

Are you truly that daft??
According to your comments- we Americans are to fund the rest of the world's poor!
Or is it just very special, special races, groups and or nations to have such funding , all chosen by lib/dem agenda?
Maybe using the Clinton Crime Family Foundation( the CCFF) donations as a basis for being so honored at all tax-paying American's expense!
Always as a lib willing to spend--other people's hard earned money!--Tyr

[Noir]

I see.

So, at what age does a fetus begin living?

That I don't know, but then nor do you or anyone else.

[jimnyc]

I see.

So, at what age does a fetus begin living?

I wasn't alive until I was about 3 months old. I was special. :)

Life is life, signs of life in almost everything around us. It only gets denied when it's against someone's agenda. But honestly, I just shrug and say whatever. At least we're onto something with forking over $$ for foreigner abortions. And with any luck we can see similar within our own walls. Or at least have it less abused, as in not being used as birth control

Force self responsibility on people that obviously don't want children, make it clear THEY have to pay for any abortions, make condoms much much more available and the price ceiling at 50 cents. Problems solved.

[NightTrain]

That I don't know, but then nor do you or anyone else.

Oh, I do know, Noir.

But here, this happened right there in the UK :

This baby girl was born just 21 weeks into gestation - well within the allowed abortion timeframe - and survived.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9652&stc=1

That's a 10-ounce baby.

Millions of those babies that age right there are killed every year.

So can you tell me that this baby pictured isn't alive?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1021034/The-tiniest-survivor-How-miracle-baby-born-weeks-legal-abortion-limit-clung-life-odds.html

[Noir]

make condoms much much more available and the price ceiling at 50 cents.

Im glad we're at a position in history were contraception is not viewed as negatively as it was, atleast in our countries, except for the odd idiots.

[jimnyc]

Im glad we're at a position in history were contraception is not viewed as negatively as it was, atleast in our countries, except for the odd idiots.

And the point being, without going too far off topic, is that folks themselves bear the highest responsibility. It's VERY easy to lead a HUGELY sexual lifestyle and yet not need an abortion. I just don't get it. But whatever, and if that's the case - folks shouldn't then be looking to others for assistance. And then even then, if they are, it should be looking first to family and friends. And then indigent folks should be looking to local authorities, then state and what not.

But usually, right off the bat, many will scoff at the idea of personal responsibility. And that's where it belongs in an overwhelming amount of times, and then some.

The USA shouldn't be holding the hands and wallets of folks looking for abortions in other countries. They shouldn't be doing so even in the USA, IMO, other than in limited circumstances.

Entitlements and the era of folks thinking they are entitled to everything.

[Noir]

Oh, I do know, Noir.

No you don't, but you're welcome to say when you think a fetus begins living.


So can you tell me that this baby pictured isn't alive?

With advances in medical science these kinds of stories are to be expected. The real fun begins when we can create babies in labs without need for the human problem at all.

[Noir]

And the point being, without going too far off topic, is that folks themselves bear the highest responsibility. It's VERY easy to lead a HUGELY sexual lifestyle and yet not need an abortion. I just don't get it. But whatever, and if that's the case - folks shouldn't then be looking to others for assistance. And then even then, if they are, it should be looking first to family and friends. And then indigent folks should be looking to local authorities, then state and what not.

But usually, right off the bat, many will scoff at the idea of personal responsibility. And that's where it belongs in an overwhelming amount of times, and then some.

The USA shouldn't be holding the hands and wallets of folks looking for abortions in other countries. They shouldn't be doing so even in the USA, IMO, other than in limited circumstances.

Entitlements and the era of folks thinking they are entitled to everything.

You litterally just said "make condoms much much more available and the price ceiling at 50 cents."
And followed it up by saying it's about personal responsibility, not looking to others for assistance and entitlement...

...so who exactly do you think should "make condoms much more available" and who should set the "price ceiling at 50cents"?

[NightTrain]

No you don't, but you're welcome to say when you think a fetus begins living.

Conception, of course.


With advances in medical science these kinds of stories are to be expected. The real fun begins when we can create babies in labs without need for the human problem at all.

So, we can agree that 21 weeks into the pregnancy, the baby is viable and, therefore, "living" as you put it. Yes?

[BoogyMan]

Fuck man you are out of touch. Go to some slums in India that depend of organizations like this for women's health. Tell them they all have to learn personal responsibility. You don't know jack shit about what's happening.

Watch the video and learn something, Pete.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgiScr364Y

[Black Diamond]

"Killing" implies "living" nothing is being killed if nothing is alive.
When someone is on the ground unresponsive, how does one determine if that person is alive?

[NightTrain]

When someone is on the ground unresponsive, how does one determine if that person is alive?

Oooh! Oooh!

/horseshack

[Noir]

When someone is on the ground unresponsive, how does one determine if that person is alive?

You could by every measure judge them to be dead, heartbeat, brain activity etc, dead, and yet find later they are alive and well, medical science.
When you are dead is about as grey as when you are alive when science is involved.


Conception, of course.

Well that's cute, but it stands up to no sort of discussion.


So, we can agree that 21 weeks into the pregnancy, the baby is viable and, therefore, "living" as you put it. Yes?

No, we can not agree, but I understand that you won't accept that, because you don't accept the shades of greyness that are the system being examined.

[NightTrain]

No, we can not agree, but I understand that you won't accept that, because you don't accept the shades of greyness that are the system being examined.

So you contend that the child that lives today was NOT alive in that picture at 21 weeks?

[BoogyMan]

No you don't, but you're welcome to say when you think a fetus begins living.

When we view the literal medical definition of death it is pretty eye opening.


"death (death) (deth) the cessation of life; permanent cessation of all vital bodily functions. For legal and medical purposes, the following definition of death has been proposed-the irreversible cessation of all of the following: (1) total cerebral function, usually assessed by EEG as flat-line (2) spontaneous function of the respiratory system, and (3) spontaneous function of the circulatory system... (Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 31st Edition)

Now the respiratory system in supported by the mother in the case of the child in the womb. These things all are working and there is mental activity in the child. With this in mind we CERTAINLY know that a death occurs during abortion thus, and quite importantly, the converse original state must be life.

[Kathianne]

When we view the literal medical definition of death it is pretty eye opening.

(Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 31st Edition)

Now the respiratory system in supported by the mother in the case of the child in the womb. These things all are working and there is mental activity in the child. With this in mind we CERTAINLY know that a death occurs during abortion thus, and quite importantly, the converse original state must be life.


Good point, which pretty well is illustrated by the following. I've never heard of neuro or cardio surgeries on those not live:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3119808/


Fetal neurosurgery: current state of the art
Future Neurol. 2011 Mar; 6(2): 165–171.
doi: 10.2217/fnl.11.3

[Abbey Marie]

There are a lot of countries in our world. How much are the others forking over, and which countries? Why can't others divide up the money and let others pay? Either that, or setup a system - worldwide - where folks that want to opt-in, like Noir, and privatize any help they think they want to give other countries for abortions. Problem solved.

I like it. And further, maybe these caring folks can each "sponsor an about to be aborted child". You know, like charities have us do with living poor children? Just think of how much they can accomplish!

[Noir]

So you contend that the child that lives today was NOT alive in that picture at 21 weeks?

The fetus was able to be supported medically so that it could develop to the point where it was living.

[jimnyc]

You litterally just said "make condoms much much more available and the price ceiling at 50 cents."
And followed it up by saying it's about personal responsibility, not looking to others for assistance and entitlement...

...so who exactly do you think should "make condoms much more available" and who should set the "price ceiling at 50cents"?

I just tossed it out there as part of the convo, adding in yet another layer of help for those with personal responsibility issues. I think folks SHOULD be able to avoid issues all on their own. But, even if.... I wouldn't mind if there was an additional layer of help via condoms, made readily available at every store possible. I couldn't care less who/how it becomes available at a low price. But I would go with a small tax, even if I'm against it. It's better than me helping pay for their lack of responsibility over many years to come. And just because I take that stance as feasible, doesn't mean that's entirely my own opinion. My opinion is - people should have some damn personal responsibility and find their own damn ways through life. If someone can't afford a damn condom, they likely shouldn't be having sex without getting one then, as obviously they can't afford a child either, and also lack in the common sense department. But some think because they are poor, that condoms, doctors visits, pills and everything else should be yet another entitlement. I wouldn't give them anything at all. - I don't have an issue if it's anything whatsoever related to a rape. If it would somehow risk the life of the woman to go full term.

[Noir]

When we view the literal medical definition of death it is pretty eye opening.

And yet people have been dead by all definitions, only to later be alive.

[aboutime]

http://icansayit.com/images/pba.gif

Or, perhaps; your mother, sister, girlfriend, or wife who are waiting to become a mother...decides to let someone do this to them?
Who are YOU to tell us, or decide WHEN LIFE BEGINS? Other than a brainwashed, non-caring, selfish person?

This is the primary reason Trump signed the Executive order.

[NightTrain]

The fetus was able to be supported medically so that it could develop to the point where it was living.

You don't do the obtuse dance well, Noir.

By that logic, anyone in the hospital on life support is legally dead.

Why is it, then, that there have been murder cases prosecuted against people removing the life support? How can you murder that which is dead?

[Abbey Marie]

You don't do the obtuse dance well, Noir.

By that logic, anyone in the hospital on life support is legally dead.

Why is it, then, that there have been murder cases prosecuted against people removing the life support? How can you murder that which is dead?

And the prosecution for murder of the fetus when someone kills a pregnant woman.

[Noir]

You don't do the obtuse dance well, Noir.

By that logic, anyone in the hospital on life support is legally dead.

Why is it, then, that there have been murder cases prosecuted against people removing the life support? How can you murder that which is dead?

Becuase, as I said, death is as grey as life in definition.
anyways I have work in a few hours so thrilling as this is I have to call it a night, sweet dreams! (:

[NightTrain]

Becuase, as I said, death is as grey as life in definition.

No, it's quite clearly medically defined as Boogeyman helpfully provided :


When we view the literal medical definition of death it is pretty eye opening.


"death (death) (deth) the cessation of life; permanent cessation of all vital bodily functions. For legal and medical purposes, the following definition of death has been proposed-the irreversible cessation of all of the following: (1) total cerebral function, usually assessed by EEG as flat-line (2) spontaneous function of the respiratory system, and (3) spontaneous function of the circulatory system... (Dorland's Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 31st Edition)

Now the respiratory system in supported by the mother in the case of the child in the womb. These things all are working and there is mental activity in the child. With this in mind we CERTAINLY know that a death occurs during abortion thus, and quite importantly, the converse original state must be life.

[jimnyc]

No, it's quite clearly medically defined as Boogeyman helpfully provided :

A grey area is good for some though, allowing it to move a bit, so as to properly fit ones agenda when necessary. It's the old 'moving the goal post' trick!

http://i.imgur.com/wQoGlTy.jpg

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Oh, I do know, Noir.

But here, this happened right there in the UK :

This baby girl was born just 21 weeks into gestation - well within the allowed abortion timeframe - and survived.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9652&stc=1

That's a 10-ounce baby.

Millions of those babies that age right there are killed every year.

So can you tell me that this baby pictured isn't alive?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1021034/The-tiniest-survivor-How-miracle-baby-born-weeks-legal-abortion-limit-clung-life-odds.html

Our son, Justin, now ten years old, was born at exactly 24 ounces. That is exactly, one and a half pounds. He was fully formed and has no physical or mental handicaps.
I am absolutely sure that he was alive at half that weight!!!!!!! And that is only 12 ounces!!

So these loons, moon-bats, pro-abortion idiots crying how it is not a child are insane , IMHO..-TYR

[NightTrain]

Honestly, it's baffling to me that Noir gets his knickers in a twist over animals slaughtered for food, and callously encourages - and financially supports - killing human babies.

That's a disconnect that makes no sense.

[aboutime]

Honestly, it's baffling to me that Noir gets his knickers in a twist over animals slaughtered for food, and callously encourages - and financially supports - killing human babies.

That's a disconnect that makes no sense.


He knows, animals NEVER VOTE, or have a way of saying NO! Hypocrisy is Noir's game.

[Black Diamond]

Becuase, as I said, death is as grey as life in definition.
anyways I have work in a few hours so thrilling as this is I have to call it a night, sweet dreams! (:
So much of Scott Peterson's prison term will be unjust?

his death.. My bad. He is on death row. I wonder if he gets death penalty were it not a double murder case.

[Drummond]

In foreign countries? Why should the US fund ANYTHING that those countries' governments should fund? I bet you won't see a million woman march in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or any other country for that matter and NO women dressing themselves like female genitalia in those countries either...

Noir, stick to spending UK money for your causes and leave MY money alone!

I (as a Brit) fully agree.

The very same principle applies to us in the UK ... we give far too much money to countries that don't need it ... India, for example, that's so 'impoverished' and 'in need' of foreign aid, that it funds its own space programme !!!

So I agree with the US adopting the very same attitude towards others, be it for this or other purposes. Trump has many features of Obama's Presidency he needs to reverse .. and for the good of the American People. Such a turnaround has been long overdue.

Trump's inaugural speech was a great one !! Highly inspiring. I look forward to America's changing its own fortunes around by leaps and bounds, thanks to his leadership.

[BoogyMan]

And yet people have been dead by all definitions, only to later be alive.

Not without intervention - are you going to argue against the medical definition of death, good sir?

[jimnyc]

Planned Parenthood on Defunding of Foreign Abortion Groups: ‘Access to Abortion is an American Value’

(CNSNews.com) – In response to the Trump administration reinstating the Mexico City Policy, which blocks taxpayer funds to non-governmental organizations that perform or promote abortion overseas, Planned Parenthood Executive Vice President Dawn Laguens said “access to safe, legal abortion is an American value.”

On Monday, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said President Trump had “made it very clear that he's a pro-life president,” and “the reinstatement of this policy is not just something that echoes that value but respects taxpayer funding as well.”

“This may be news for Sean Spicer, but access to safe, legal abortion is an American value,” Laguens said in a statement. “The world’s most vulnerable women will suffer as a direct result of this policy, which threatens to undermine years of efforts to improve women’s health worldwide.”

A Marist poll conducted in December found that 83 percent of Americans “oppose using tax dollars to fund abortions” both abroad (83%) and in the U.S. (61%).

Laguens also claimed that “women will die because of this action,” in an interview with Democracy Now.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/planned-parenthood-no-funding-international-abortion-groups-access

[Abbey Marie]

I believe this sad woman truly believes killing babies is an "American value". People can get so completely lost in sin.

I am picturing a huge stain over our country, and President Trump is slowly wiping it away. I am going to pray earnestly for him.

[NightTrain]

I believe this sad woman truly believes killing babies is an "American value". People can get so completely lost in sin.

I am am picturing a huge stain over our country, and President Trump is slowly wiping it away. I am going to pray earnestly for him.

I've said it before... but someday people will look back in horror on this era of widespread support of murdering our own babies.

[Drummond]

"Killing" implies "living" nothing is being killed if nothing is alive.

A foetus isn't alive ???

What is it, then ... dead ?

Do babies only begin to possess life at the time of birth ????

Good God. Noir, wake up !! There's a REAL world out there. Abortion snuffs out any chance of life that the developing child is developing to live !!

Deliberate, purposeful, denial of life is surely murder ??

[Drummond]

I'm concerned about what lies behind Noir's posting.

I believe that the Left see people not as individuals having individual worth, but as mere raw material for the Almighty State to shape and regard as it thinks fit.

I further think, therefore, that those who are on the Left are so biased towards supporting abortion precisely because they're extending their approach of devaluing individual life to the maximum extent they can. Succeed in convincing people that a foetus is mere 'raw material', a collection of cells not constituting life, and you can extend the psychology that legitimises the belief that we all stem from 'raw material', and can be seen in exactly those terms.

In 'my' country ... Wales, UK (I was born in England, but Wales is where I'm living) the law on organ donation has been turned on its head. Normally, you'd expect people's bodies to be sufficiently respected so that there needs to be consent before organs are removed for transplanting. In Wales - which, as a country, has a Welsh Parliament ruled BY THE LEFT - the law, now, says the opposite. 'Presumed consent' is a reality here ... where, unless there's clear proof that a dead person would not have agreed to having organs extracted, consent to have it happen is 'presumed', and those in authority are empowered to simply act upon a PRESUMPTION of consent.

This means one thing. The Left harvest bodies for medical purposes with enhanced powers to govern, FOR THEMSELVES, just to what extent they want to use those bodies as raw material for other medical procedures ... respect for the individual is minimised, respect for State powers over the individual is maximised.

This is how the Left thinks. If they get their way, they'll convince us that we are only here to be defined according to the individual worth THEY define us as having.

Little wonder that the Left is so at ease with abortion, then.

[aboutime]

I'm concerned about what lies behind Noir's posting.

I believe that the Left see people not as individuals having individual worth, but as mere raw material for the Almighty State to shape and regard as it thinks fit.

I further think, therefore, that those who are on the Left are so biased towards supporting abortion precisely because they're extending their approach of devaluing individual life to the maximum extent they can. Succeed in convincing people that a foetus is mere 'raw material', a collection of cells not constituting life, and you can extend the psychology that legitimises the belief that we all stem from 'raw material', and can be seen in exactly those terms.

In 'my' country ... Wales, UK (I was born in England, but Wales is where I'm living) the law on organ donation has been turned on its head. Normally, you'd expect people's bodies to be sufficiently respected so that there needs to be consent before organs are removed for transplanting. In Wales - which, as a country, has a Welsh Parliament ruled BY THE LEFT - the law, now, says the opposite. 'Presumed consent' is a reality here ... where, unless there's clear proof that a dead person would not have agreed to having organs extracted, consent to have it happen is 'presumed', and those in authority are empowered to simply act upon a PRESUMPTION of consent.

This means one thing. The Left harvest bodies for medical purposes with enhanced powers to govern, FOR THEMSELVES, just to what extent they want to use those bodies as raw material for other medical procedures ... respect for the individual is minimised, respect for State powers over the individual is maximised.

This is how the Left thinks. If they get their way, they'll convince us that we are only here to be defined according to the individual worth THEY define us as having.

Little wonder that the Left is so at ease with abortion, then.

Sir Drummond. Noir needs to see this..

http://youtu.be/55Axawaz2As

[Drummond]

Yes, indeed.

Trouble is, Noir would doubtless be happy about it. Never mind that the name itself is a lie. Never mind, in fact, that this consistent insistence upon abortions as the one service they care to offer, amounts to a 'death cult' .... Noir would be oblivious to that as having any meaning for him.

[NightTrain]

Becuase, as I said, death is as grey as life in definition.
anyways I have work in a few hours so thrilling as this is I have to call it a night, sweet dreams! (:
Noir

Welcome back from work!

[Black Diamond]

Becuase, as I said, death is as grey as life in definition.
anyways I have work in a few hours so thrilling as this is I have to call it a night, sweet dreams! (:
When in doubt, remove babies' brains without.

[Noir]

@Noir (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=517)

Welcome back from work!

Thanks it was a lonnnng days (:

[NightTrain]

Thanks it was a lonnnng days (:

Did you lose your appetite for defending your positions?

Seems there's quite a few comments, questions & concerns in your queue.

[Noir]

Did you lose your appetite for defending your positions?

Seems there's quite a few comments, questions & concerns in your queue.

Yeah pretty much, only so much patience and will to push in my bones, but that's the same with most threads I participate in, which is to be expected.

[jimnyc]

I lost my appetite for defending the Steelers after Sunday night. :(

[Noir]

I lost my appetite for defending the Steelers after Sunday night. :(

If the steelers can't defend, there is no defending them.

[NightTrain]

Yeah pretty much, only so much patience and will to push in my bones, but that's the same with most threads I participate in, which is to be expected.

Fair enough.

However, I still don't understand how you can be so hardcore defending an animal's life and so callous when it comes to a human life. Care to explain that?

[Black Diamond]

I lost my appetite for defending the Steelers after Sunday night. :(
They need new corners.

[jimnyc]

If the steelers can't defend, there is no defending them.

The indefensible.

[Noir]

Fair enough.

However, I still don't understand how you can be so hardcore defending an animal's life and so callous when it comes to a human life. Care to explain that?

Nope, let's just enjoy the evening instead (:

[NightTrain]

Nope, let's just enjoy the evening instead (:

Don't blame you.

That's a tough one to reconcile.

Well, get back to me when you figure it out, because I'm genuinely interested in how that works.