'13th' a Netflix documentary on mass criminalization

[pete311]

It's free on Netflix. The director also did the fantastic movie Selma. Take the time and watch it. It explores history from the time of slavery to modern day how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed. It's thoroughly shocking and insightful. It's as unbiased as I've ever seen laying blame on both sides of the isle (The Clintons are attacked, Gingrich has sound bites), on the media, on the public and on private companies. Watching this is just the beginning of understanding, I'd also suggest reading the book "The New Jim Crow". The author has several sound bites in this film.


Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk

I can already hear the reactionary responses of where is the personal responsibility, where is the blame for the criminals. The doc does not attempt to absolve or pardon any crime. Just put your reactionary opinions down, watch it open minded and learn something.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It's free on Netflix. The director also did the fantastic movie Selma. Take the time and watch it. It explores history from the time of slavery to modern day how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed. It's thoroughly shocking and insightful. It's as unbiased as I've ever seen laying blame on both sides of the isle (The Clintons are attacked, Gingrich has sound bites), on the media, on the public and on private companies. Watching this is just the beginning of understanding, I'd also suggest reading the book "The New Jim Crow". The author has several sound bites in this film.


Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk

I can already hear the reactionary responses of where is the personal responsibility, where is the blame for the criminals. The doc does not attempt to absolve or pardon any crime. Just put your reactionary opinions down, watch it open minded and learn something.


WELL , DID IT POINT OUT HOW THE ARABS, THE MUSLIMS KILLED,CAPTURED, TORTURED AND ENSLAVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AFRICAN NATIVES FOR CENTURIES!!??
For if not then its pure ffing rubbish.........the kind you dumbass libs just love to promote in your zeal to court black voters and portray whites as the only evil in this world!-Tyr

[pete311]

WELL , DID IT POINT OUT HOW THE ARABS, THE MUSLIMS KILLED,CAPTURED, TORTURED AND ENSLAVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AFRICAN NATIVES FOR CENTURIES!!??
For if not then its pure ffing rubbish.........the kind you dumbass libs just love to promote in your zeal to court black voters and portray whites as the only evil in this world!-Tyr

American history, not arab history :salute:

[fj1200]

American history, not arab history :salute:

Well... you tried.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

American history, not arab history :salute:


It explores history from the time of slavery to modern day how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed.

^^^^ Seems you miss a lot dumbass.
Whereas I pointed out a major player/factor addressing this--

"how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed".....

You could never best me because I use truth, reality, common sense and logic- whereas you and your kind use liberal fantasy, ignorance and abject stupidity as your weapons..
Knowledge is power, not ffing lies , El Stupido..-Tyr

[pete311]

It explores history from the time of slavery to modern day how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed.

^^^^ Seems you miss a lot dumbass.
Whereas I pointed out a major player/factor addressing this--

"how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed".....

You could never best me because I use truth, reality, common sense and logic- whereas you and your kind use liberal fantasy, ignorance and abject stupidity as your weapons..
Knowledge is power, not ffing lies , El Stupido..-Tyr

please explain how the arab muslims had anything to do with the mass incarceration of african americans over the course of american history.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

please explain how the arab muslims had anything to do with the mass incarceration of african americans over the course of american history.

Read below- highlighted in red just for your dumb ass!
I could post dozens of more verified historic links but this one serves well enough.
You are basically as damn clueless as a dog trying to raise catfish for market---arent ya Peteyboy??



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Arab slave trade
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The main slave routes in Africa during the Middle Ages.
Slavery
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Contemporary

Child labour Conscription Debt Forced marriage
Bride buying Wife selling Forced prostitution Human trafficking Peonage Penal labour Sexual slavery

Historical

Antiquity

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Topics and practices

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Middle Passage Arab slave trade
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History Russia Slave raiding

Naval

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By country or region

Africa

Contemporary Africa Slavery on the Barbary Coast Barbary slave trade Slave Coast Angola Chad Ethiopia Mali Mauritania Niger Somalia South Africa Sudan Seychelles

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Asia

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Blackbirding in Australia Human trafficking in Australia Slave raiding in Easter Island Human trafficking in Papua New Guinea Blackbirding in Polynesia

Europe

Sex trafficking in Europe British Isles Denmark Dutch Republic Germany in World War II Norway Poland Portugal Romania Russia Spain
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Religion

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Opposition and resistance

Timeline Abolitionism
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Related

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owners Slave narrative
films songs Slave name Slave catcher Slave patrol Slave Route Project Treatment in U.S.
breeding court cases Washington Jefferson Adams Lincoln 40 acres Freedmen's Bureau bit Wage slavery Emancipation Day

v t e

Arab slave trade was the practice of slavery in the Arab world, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa, Southeast Africa, the Horn of Africa and certain parts of Europe (such as Iberia and Sicily). This barter occurred chiefly between the medieval era until the early 20th century. The trade was conducted through slave markets in these areas, with the slaves captured mostly from Africa's interior.

Contents

1 Scope of the trade
2 Sources and historiography of the slave trade
2.1 7th century to 20th century
2.2 Arab slaves
2.3 Medieval Arabic sources
2.4 European texts (16th–19th centuries)
2.5 Other sources
3 Historical and geographical context
3.1 The Islamic world
3.2 Arab views on African people
3.3 Africa: 8th through 19th centuries
4 Geography of the slave trade
4.1 "Supply" zones
4.2 Routes
4.3 Barter
4.4 Slave markets and fairs
4.5 Towns and ports involved in the slave trade
5 Legacy
6 See also
7 References
8 Further reading
9 External links

Scope of the trade
A 19th-century European engraving of Arab slave-trading caravan transporting African slaves across the Sahara.

The trade of slaves across the Sahara and across the Indian Ocean also has a long history, beginning with the control of sea routes by Arab and Swahili traders on the Swahili Coast during the ninth century (see Sultanate of Zanzibar). These traders captured Bantu peoples (Zanj) from the interior in present-day Kenya, Mozambique and Tanzania and brought them to the littoral.[1][2] There, the slaves gradually assimilated in the rural areas, particularly on the Unguja and Pemba islands.[3]

The captives were sold throughout the Middle East. This trade accelerated as superior ships led to more trade and greater demand for labour on plantations in the region. Eventually, tens of thousands of captives were being taken every year.[3][4][5] The Indian Ocean slave trade was multi-directional and changed over time. To meet the demand for menial labor, Bantu slaves bought by Arab slave traders from southeastern Africa were sold in cumulatively large numbers over the centuries to customers in Egypt, Arabia, the Persian Gulf, India, European colonies in the Far East, the Indian Ocean islands, Ethiopia and Somalia.[6][7]

Slave labor in East Africa was drawn from the Zanj, Bantu peoples that lived along the East African coast.[2][8] The Zanj were for centuries shipped as slaves by Arab traders to all the countries bordering the Indian Ocean. The Umayyad and Abbasid caliphs recruited many Zanj slaves as soldiers and, as early as 696, there were slave revolts of the Zanj against their Arab enslavers in Iraq (see Zanj Rebellion). Ancient Chinese texts also mention ambassadors from Java presenting the Chinese emperor with two Seng Chi (Zanj) slaves as gifts, and Seng Chi slaves reaching China from the Hindu kingdom of Srivijaya in Java.[9]

The Zanj Rebellion, a series of uprisings that took place between 869 and 883 AD near the city of Basra (also known as Basara), situated in present-day Iraq, is believed to have involved enslaved Zanj that had originally been captured from the African Great Lakes region and areas further south in East Africa.[10] It grew to involve over 500,000 slaves and free men who were imported from across the Muslim empire and claimed over "tens of thousands of lives in lower Iraq".[11] The Zanj who were taken as slaves to the Middle East were often used in strenuous agricultural work.[12] As the plantation economy boomed and the Arabs became richer, agriculture and other manual labor work was thought to be demeaning. The resulting labor shortage led to an increased slave market.

It is certain that large numbers of slaves were exported from eastern Africa; the best evidence for this is the magnitude of the Zanj revolt in Iraq in the 9th century, though not all of the slaves involved were Zanj. There is little evidence of what part of eastern Africa the Zanj came from, for the name is here evidently used in its general sense, rather than to designate the particular stretch of the coast, from about 3°N. to 5°S., to which the name was also applied.[13]

The Zanj were needed to take care of:

the Tigris-Euphrates delta, which had become abandoned marshland as a result of peasant migration and repeated flooding, could be reclaimed through intensive labor. Wealthy proprietors "had received extensive grants of tidal land on the condition that they would make it arable." Sugar cane was prominent among the products of their plantations, particularly in Khūzestān Province. Zanj also worked the salt mines of Mesopotamia, especially around Basra.[14]

Their jobs were to clear away the nitrous topsoil that made the land arable. The working conditions were also considered to be extremely harsh and miserable. Many other people were imported into the region, besides Zanj.[15]
A female Bantu slave in Mogadishu (1882–1883).

Arabs also enslaved Europeans. According to Robert Davis, between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured between the 16th and 19th centuries by Barbary corsairs, who were vassals of the Ottoman Empire, and sold as slaves.[16][17][18] These slaves were captured mainly from seaside villages from Italy, Spain, Portugal and also from more distant places like France or England, the Netherlands, Ireland and even Iceland. They were also taken from ships stopped by the pirates.[19]

The effects of these attacks were devastating: France, England, and Spain each lost thousands of ships. Long stretches of the Spanish and Italian coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants, because of frequent pirate attacks. Pirate raids discouraged settlement along the coast until the 19th century.[20][21]

Periodic Arab raiding expeditions were sent from Islamic Iberia to ravage the Christian Iberian kingdoms, bringing back booty and slaves. In a raid against Lisbon in 1189, for example, the Almohad caliph, Abu Yusuf Yaqub al-Mansur, took 3,000 female and child captives, while his governor of Córdoba, in a subsequent attack upon Silves in 1191, took 3,000 Christian slaves.[22]

The Ottoman wars in Europe and Tatar raids (although not Arabic themselves) brought large numbers of European Christian slaves into the Muslim world.[23][24][25] In 1769 a last major Tatar raid saw the capture of 20,000 Russian and Polish slaves.[26]

The "Oriental" or "Arab" slave trade is sometimes called[according to whom?] the "Islamic" slave trade,[citation needed] but Patrick Manning states that a religious imperative was not the driver of the slavery. However, if a non-Muslim population refuses to pay the jizya protection/subjugation tax, that population is considered to be at war with the Muslim "ummah" (nation), and it becomes legal under Islamic law to take slaves from that non-Muslim population. Usage of the terms "Islamic trade" or "Islamic world" has been disputed by some Muslims as it treats Africa as outside Islam, or a negligible portion of the Islamic world.[27] According to European historians, propagators of Islam in Africa often revealed a cautious attitude towards proselytizing because of its effect in reducing the potential reservoir of slaves.[28]

The subject merges with the Oriental slave trade, which followed two main routes in the Middle Ages:

Overland routes across the Maghreb and Mashriq deserts (Trans-Saharan route)[29]
Sea routes to the east of Africa through the Red Sea and Indian Ocean (Oriental route)[30][31]

The Arab slave trade originated before Islam and lasted more than a millennium.[32][33][34] To meet the demand for plantation labor, these captured Zanj slaves were shipped to the Arabian peninsula and the Near East, among other areas.[35]

14 to 20 million Africans are estimated to have been killed in the slave trade.[33][36]
Sources and historiography of the slave trade

The Arab trade of Zanj (Bantu) slaves in Southeast Africa is one of the oldest slave trades, predating the European transatlantic slave trade by 700 years.[2][8][37] Male slaves were often employed as servants, soldiers, or laborers by their owners, while female slaves, including those from Africa, were long traded to the Middle Eastern countries and kingdoms by Arab and Oriental traders as concubines and servants. Arab, African and Oriental traders were involved in the capture and transport of slaves northward across the Sahara desert and the Indian Ocean region into the Middle East, Persia and the Far East.[2][8]

The most significant Jewish involvement in the slave-trade was in Al-Andalus, as Islamic Spain was called.[38] According to historian Alan W. Fisher, there was a guild of Jewish slave traders in Constantinople, the capital of the Ottoman Empire. The guild had about 2000 members.[26] The city was a major center of the slave trade in the 15th century and later. By 1475 most of the slaves were provided by Tatar raids on Slavic villages.[26] Until the late 18th century, the Crimean Khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East, exporting about 2 million slaves from Poland-Lithuania and Russia over the period 1500–1700.[39]
7th century to 20th century
Main articles: History of slavery in the Muslim world and Barbary slave trade
Giulio Rosati, Inspection of New Arrivals, 1858–1917, Circassian beauties.

From the 7th century until around the 1960s, the Arab slave trade continued in one form or another. Historical accounts and references to slave-owning nobility in Arabia, Yemen and elsewhere are frequent into the early 1920s.[37]

In 641 during the Baqt, a treaty between the Christian state of Makuria and the Muslim rulers of Egypt, the Nubians agreed to give Arab traders more privileges of trade in addition to a share in their slave trading.[40]

In the Ottoman Empire during the mid-14th century, slaves were traded in special marketplaces called "Esir" or "Yesir" that were located in most towns and cities. It is said that Sultan Mehmed II "the Conqueror" established the first Ottoman slave market in Constantinople in the 1460s, probably where the former Byzantine slave market had stood. According to Nicolas de Nicolay, there were slaves of all ages and both sexes, they were displayed naked to be thoroughly checked by possible buyers.[41]

Domestic slavery was not as common as military slavery.[42] On the basis of a list of estates belonging to members of the ruling class kept in Edirne between 1545 and 1659, the following data was collected: out of 93 estates, 41 had slaves.[42] However rural slavery was largely a phenomenon endemic to the Caucasus region, which was carried to Anatolia and Rumelia after the Circassian migration in 1864.[43] Conflicts frequently emerged within the immigrant community and the Ottoman Establishment intervened on the side of the slaves at selective times.[44]

The Crimean Khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East until the early eighteenth century. In a process called "harvesting of the steppe", Crimean Tatars enslaved Slavic peasants. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia suffered a series of Tatar invasions, the goal of which was to loot, pillage, and capture slaves into "jasyr".[24] The borderland area to the south-east was in a state of semi-permanent warfare until the 18th century. It is estimated that up to 75% of the Crimean population consisted of slaves or freed slaves.[45]

In Somalia, the inhabiting Bantus are descended from Bantu groups that had settled in Southeast Africa after the initial expansion from Nigeria/Cameroon, and whose members were later captured and sold into the Arab slave trade.[46] From 1800 to 1890, between 25,000–50,000 Bantu slaves are thought to have been sold from the slave market of Zanzibar to the Somali coast.[47] Most of the slaves were from the Majindo, Makua, Nyasa, Yao, Zalama, Zaramo and Zigua ethnic groups of Tanzania, Mozambique and Malawi. Collectively, these Bantu groups are known as Mushunguli, which is a term taken from Mzigula, the Zigua tribe's word for "people" (the word holds multiple implied meanings including "worker", "foreigner", and "slave").[6]
Arab captors and workers in Zanzibar, now part of Tanzania in East Africa.

Bantu adult and children slaves (referred to collectively as jareer by their Somali masters[48]) were purchased in the slave market exclusively to do undesirable work on plantation grounds.[49] They were made to work in plantations owned by Somalis along the southern Shebelle and Jubba rivers, harvesting lucrative cash crops such as grain and cotton.[50] Bantu slaves toiled under the control of and separately from their Somali patrons.[51]

In terms of legal considerations, Bantu slaves were devalued. Somali social mores strongly discouraged, censured and looked down upon any kind of sexual contact with Bantu slaves. Freedom for these plantation slaves was also often acquired through escape.[49]

As part of a broader practice then common among slave owners in Northeast Africa, some Somali masters in the hinterland near Mogadishu reportedly used to circumcise their female slaves so as to increase the latter's perceived value in the slave market. In 1609, the Portuguese missionary João dos Santos reported that one such group had a "custome to sew up their females, especially their slaves being young to make them unable for conception, which makes these slaves sell dearer, both for their chastitie, and for better confidence which their masters put in them."[52]

The Italian colonial administration abolished slavery in Somalia at the turn of the 20th century. Some Bantu groups, however, remained enslaved well until the 1930s, and continued to be despised and discriminated against by large parts of Somali society.[53]
The historical routes of the Ethiopian slave trade.

In Ethiopia, during the second half of the 19th century and early 20th century, slaves shipped from there had a high demand in the markets of the Arabian peninsula and elsewhere in the Middle East. They were mostly domestic servants, though some served as agricultural labourers, or as water carriers, herdsmen, seamen, camel drivers, porters, washerwomen, masons, shop assistants and cooks. The most fortunate of the men worked as the officials or bodyguards of the ruler and emirs, or as business managers for rich merchants.[54]

They enjoyed significant personal freedom and occasionally held slaves of their own. Besides Javanese and Chinese girls brought in from the Far East, "red" (non-black) Ethiopian young females were among the most valued concubines. The most beautiful ones often enjoyed a wealthy lifestyle, and became mistresses of the elite or even mothers to rulers.[54] The principal sources of these slaves, all of whom passed through Matamma, Massawa and Tadjoura on the Red Sea, were the southwestern parts of Ethiopia, in the Oromo and Sidama country.[55]

The most important outlet for Ethiopian slaves was undoubtedly Massawa. Trade routes from Gondar, located in the Ethiopian Highlands led to Massawa via Adwa. Slave drivers from Gondar took 100-200 slaves in a single trip to Massawa, the majority of whom were female.[55]

A small number of eunuchs were also acquired by the slave traders in the southern parts of Ethiopia.[56] Mainly consisting of young children, they led the most privileged lives and commanded the highest prices in the Islamic global markets because of their rarity. They served in the harems of the affluent or guarded holy sites.[54] Some of the young boys had become eunuchs due to the battle traditions that were at the time endemic to parts of southern Ethiopia. However, the majority came from the Badi Folia principality in the Jimma region, situated to the southeast of Enarea. The local Oromo/Galla rulers were so disturbed by the custom that they drove out of their kingdoms all who practiced it.[56]

In the Central African Republic, during the 16th and 17th centuries Muslim slave traders began to raid the region as part of the expansion of the Saharan and Nile River slave routes. Their captives were slaved and shipped to the Mediterranean coast, Europe, Arabia, the Western Hemisphere, or to the slave ports and factories along the West and North Africa or South the Ubanqui and Congo rivers.[57][58]

The Arab slave trade in the Indian Ocean, Red Sea, and Mediterranean Sea long predated the arrival of any significant number of Europeans on the African continent.[37][59]
The purchase of Christian captives by Catholic monks in the Barbary states.

Some descendants of African slaves brought to the Middle East during the slave-trade still live there today, and are aware of their African origins.[60][61]

The North African slave markets traded also in European slaves. The European slaves were acqui..........

[pete311]

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote, but the film is about American history.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote, but the film is about American history.

And I pointed out the history goes much farther back and the great culprits are the muslims!
So a film only wants to blame one nation, one group -that engaged in slavery while ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions were enslaved by the
muslims, a religious group still in existence today..
I pointed out that such selective outrage and propaganda is bullshit.
And I am one hundred percent correct.
Next..-Tyr

[SassyLady]

please explain how the arab muslims had anything to do with the mass incarceration of african americans over the course of american history.

Exacerbated by capturing and selling to American slave traders.

[fj1200]

Oy vey!

[jimnyc]

And I pointed out the history goes much farther back and the great culprits are the muslims!
So a film only wants to blame one nation, one group -that engaged in slavery while ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions were enslaved by the
muslims, a religious group still in existence today..
I pointed out that such selective outrage and propaganda is bullshit.
And I am one hundred percent correct.
Next..-Tyr

Slavery in America's short history was horrible, no doubt. I won't disagree with Pete or anyone else about that. And I suppose this thread IS about the documentary he posted. So I don't have an issue limiting it to America.

But yeah, you're not allowed to bring anything else into a discussion apparently. And some will laugh, scoff or roll eyes because you added this to the conversation - and those scoffing ain't adding jack shit.

And to what you wrote... the muslims STILL are involved in modern day slavery, just a little different. Women in many areas are still sold off as wives. Other women are slaves within their own communities or countries via subjugation. And is there a difference between the past and what they do today? These women are forced to cook, clean and other activities, they are forced to dress certain ways. They can't drive in many areas. Can't go to school.

[fj1200]

Blaming Muslims for American involvement in slavery is a bit ridiculous.

[jimnyc]

Blaming Muslims for American involvement in slavery is a bit ridiculous.

I don't think she blamed them, just said it was exacerbated. History shows they enslaved nearly 30 million Africans, and they did a lot of transatlantic slave trading. Blame them? Absolutely not. But did they exacerbate the issue? Of course, just as any other group that brought or traded slaves into America.

[fj1200]

I don't think she blamed them, just said it was exacerbated. History shows they enslaved nearly 30 million Africans, and they did a lot of transatlantic slave trading. Blame them? Absolutely not. But did they exacerbate the issue? Of course, just as any other group that brought or traded slaves into America.

That seems to be the whole point of dissension here: Muslims did it. Many share guilt but as you point out this thread is about the post-Civil War treatment of blacks, not much Muslim involvement there.

[jimnyc]

That seems to be the whole point of dissension here: Muslims did it. Many share guilt but as you point out this thread is about the post-Civil War treatment of blacks, not much Muslim involvement there.

Perhaps not, but outside of Tyr posting information, I saw no other replies. And even with his replies, only bitching about it. So since he did add it, and that's what took traction, that's why/what I replied to. I agree with him and Sassy. Again, not blaming muslims for our black slavery issues, we have our own 'personal responsibility', but it is true that they had a LOT of slaves over time and did bring a lot to America.

[fj1200]

Perhaps not, but outside of Tyr posting information, I saw no other replies. And even with his replies, only bitching about it. So since he did add it, and that's what took traction, that's why/what I replied to. I agree with him and Sassy. Again, not blaming muslims for our black slavery issues, we have our own 'personal responsibility', but it is true that they had a LOT of slaves over time and did bring a lot to America.

Nobody is really arguing that point.

[jimnyc]

Nobody is really arguing that point.

Then if it's simply muslims being brought up in this thread alone that brought about oy vey, you tried and things like that - you are MORE than welcome to reply to the OP or add your own information. Perhaps then folks will reply to your liking and on the exact topic you expect.

[fj1200]

Then if it's simply muslims being brought up in this thread alone that brought about oy vey, you tried and things like that - you are MORE than welcome to reply to the OP or add your own information. Perhaps then folks will reply to your liking and on the exact topic you expect.

You're right. My apologies. Muslims are never brought up in unrelated threads.

[jimnyc]

You're right. My apologies. Muslims are never brought up in unrelated threads.

It happens quite often, not denying that. But you fucking bitch and moan and bitch and moan and then offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the thread.

[fj1200]

That makes 4 of us. :)

[jimnyc]

That makes 4 of us. :)

Looks like Tyr, Sassy and myself actually wrote things outside of ONLY bitching. But feel free to go back to your whining about others posts and content, it's become apparent that it's one of your priorities, and that you prefer it over actual discussion.

Also, if you have an issue with what Tyr posts, why not place him on ignore, especially knowing that he has done to you a long time back. You KNOW he's not going to respond to you. But yet you'll spend time bitching about what he posts, refuse to discuss the topic, or any topic in the thread apparently, and then of course you'll laugh like a baby and refuse to place him on ignore.

[fj1200]

I'd love to discuss the topic, Muslims ain't it. :) Time and time again roadblocks were put up against blacks by government action after slavery and when government action gets around to trying to help them it's cuts their legs out from under them. Its shocking why we're surprised when there is a lag in economic performance.

[jimnyc]

I'd love to discuss the topic, Muslims ain't it. :) Time and time again roadblocks were put up against blacks by government action after slavery and when government action gets around to trying to help them it's cuts their legs out from under them. Its shocking why we're surprised when there is a lag in economic performance.

Slavery is a black eye for our history, as it is or was for other locations.

And I'll agree on various roadblocks. Lots of blame to go around. Speaking of after the civil rights era, while those road blocks existed - some blame goes to many black folks themselves as well. And no, not in regards to slavery... just my opinion from that era forward. I know a lot of folks are caught up in socioeconomic never ending circles, being born into ghettos and opportunities being less and all that jazz. But there has to be personal responsibility on top of that, at least for a large portion.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Exacerbated by capturing and selling to American slave traders.

My friend, the usual--- defend muslims at all costs--- will be on you like white on rice for posting that truth.
They want no truth presented about the muslims being by far the major player in slavery.
So convenient to say-- let just talk about slavery in America! So we can blame whitey-and go with the current dem/lib agenda.

YET SUBJECT IS SLAVERY AND AS YOU POINTED OUT -MUSLIM SLAVE TRADERS SENT MOST OF THEM HERE BY BEING THE MAJOR PLAYER IN THEIR CAPTURE AND SALE.
And even today, muslims are the biggest player in slavery! A fact.

I see the usual suspects are pissed that thy opened the door for me to point out facts and give verified sources backing those facts.

ALWAYS THE LIBS CRY OUT, PLEASE STOP HIM FROM POSTING TRUTH AND GIVING VERIFIED LINKS TO SUPPORT THAT TRUTH.
Damn crybabies, somebody needs to invent an internet pacifier for them(maybe a digital butt-plug, they'd love that)..:laugh::laugh::laugh:--Tyr

[fj1200]

Slavery is a black eye for our history, as it is or was for other locations.

And I'll agree on various roadblocks. Lots of blame to go around. Speaking of after the civil rights era, while those road blocks existed - some blame goes to many black folks themselves as well. And no, not in regards to slavery... just my opinion from that era forward. I know a lot of folks are caught up in socioeconomic never ending circles, being born into ghettos and opportunities being less and all that jazz. But there has to be personal responsibility on top of that, at least for a large portion.

Of course there's personal responsibility but when there are sentencing discrepancies, enforcement discrepancies, etc. that stack the deck against a group of people then it's less of a factor.


...
Since then, the film argues, a variety of measures—from Jim Crow laws to President Richard Nixon's "war on drugs" and President Bill Clinton's "three-strikes-you're-out" legislation—have served to send increasingly large numbers of black men in prison, and several legal scholars and activists interviewed on camera suggest a profit motive at work, as well as racism. Corporations have reaped profits off the privatization of prisons and prison labor; some prisoners have gotten paid as little as 12 cents an hour (http://qz.com/777415/an-unprecedented-prison-strike-hopes-to-change-the-fate-of-the-900000-americans-trapped-in-an-exploitative-labor-system/), doing work for corporations, like Victoria's Secret and Walmart (http://fortune.com/fortune500/walmart-1/).





The film charts the explosive growth in America's prison population; in 1970, there were about 200,000 prisoners; today, the prison population is more than 2 million. Although the U.S. has just 5% of the world's population, it has about 25% of the world's prisoners (http://sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Trends-in-US-Corrections.pdf), and about one in three prisoners are black men. More than 60% of the people in U.S prisons are people of color.
...
http://fortune.com/2016/10/06/13th-netflix-documentary-ava-duvernay/

That's more than just personal responsibility IMO.

[jimnyc]

Of course there's personal responsibility but when there are sentencing discrepancies, enforcement discrepancies, etc. that stack the deck against a group of people then it's less of a factor.


http://fortune.com/2016/10/06/13th-netflix-documentary-ava-duvernay/

That's more than just personal responsibility IMO.

Yep, there is more, no doubt. But I have zero doubt that millions of blacks would be in much better circumstances if they had more personal responsibility.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Slavery in America's short history was horrible, no doubt. I won't disagree with Pete or anyone else about that. And I suppose this thread IS about the documentary he posted. So I don't have an issue limiting it to America.

But yeah, you're not allowed to bring anything else into a discussion apparently. And some will laugh, scoff or roll eyes because you added this to the conversation - and those scoffing ain't adding jack shit.

And to what you wrote... the muslims STILL are involved in modern day slavery, just a little different. Women in many areas are still sold off as wives. Other women are slaves within their own communities or countries via subjugation. And is there a difference between the past and what they do today? These women are forced to cook, clean and other activities, they are forced to dress certain ways. They can't drive in many areas. Can't go to school.

The usual cretins will do as always.
Scream make him stop hitting us with truth and linked sources to verify that truth..
Yes and muslims still engage in slavery today! As they themselves are savage heathens(cult-monsters) good for only firewood IMHO.-TYR

[fj1200]

The usual cretins will do as always.
Scream make him stop hitting us with truth and linked sources to verify that truth..
Yes and muslims still engage in slavery today! As they themselves are savage heathens(cult-monsters) good for only firewood IMHO.-TYR

Whoever would that be? :confused:

[SassyLady]

Whoever would that be? :confused:

Am I reading this wrong .. more white people in jail than blacks and yet everyone screams disparity.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9608&stc=1

[pete311]

Am I reading this wrong .. more white people in jail than blacks and yet everyone screams disparity.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/



ugh you do realize blacks are only 12% of the US right?

[pete311]

Yep, there is more, no doubt. But I have zero doubt that millions of blacks would be in much better circumstances if they had more personal responsibility.

No one is saying there shouldn't be personal responsibility but you educate yourself in what has happened since slavery so you can understand why they are in the situation they are in. Blacks are not genetically more prone to commit crimes and live in gov housing. There are reasons that start with slavery. Watch the documentary and you'll get a little taste.

[SassyLady]

Blacks are not genetically more prone to commit crimes and live in gov housing. There are reasons that start with slavery.

What is the reason for so many white people in prisons if slavery is to blame for the amount of blacks in prison?

[fj1200]

Am I reading this wrong .. more white people in jail than blacks and yet everyone screams disparity.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/

It's the why and how and whether there is equal treatment.

[fj1200]

What is the reason for so many white people in prisons if slavery is to blame for the amount of blacks in prison?

Slavery is not to blame. It's what came after is the point of the documentary.

[jimnyc]

ugh you do realize blacks are only 12% of the US right?

And yet they make up the MAJORITY of welfare - close in prison stats, lead in many areas of violent crimes... crazy shit, ain't it?

[pete311]

And yet they make up the MAJORITY of welfare - close in prison stats, lead in many areas of violent crimes... crazy shit, ain't it?
Yes... why? They are genetically inclined to be on welfare? No, educate yourself.

[Black Diamond]

Yes... why? They are genetically inclined to be on welfare? No, educate yourself.
Who on here said anything about genetically inclined?

[CSM]

Who on here said anything about genetically inclined?

Pete did....

[pete311]

Who on here said anything about genetically inclined?
What is your take on why blacks are predominately on welfare and in prisons?

[NightTrain]

Pete did....

Curious that the ones leveling pronouncements of racism at others are in reality the racist ones.

Smokescreen tactic?

[jimnyc]

And yet they make up the MAJORITY of welfare - close in prison stats, lead in many areas of violent crimes... crazy shit, ain't it?


Yes... why? They are genetically inclined to be on welfare? No, educate yourself.

Huh? Where did I say anything REMOTELY close to that? Making things up doesn't help ya little petey.

And I'll bet ANOTHER 50 here pete, that no education is needed, and that the stats I post are spot on. Care to keep losing?

[jimnyc]

What is your take on why blacks are predominately on welfare and in prisons?

Because they commit a lot of crimes?

[pete311]

Because they commit a lot of crimes?
Why

[jimnyc]

Why

No matter what anyone states you'll just call them a racist. Hell, you were already putting shit in my mouth for simply pointing out 100% ACCURATE stats.

As for why - I don't know, as them that.

But one doesn't need to be on welfare for life, nor for years. There is a TON TON shitload of abuse, and it's documented, so do a little search. I hold NOTHING though against anyone that truly needs assistance, so before you put words there.... Prisons? That's simple - why? they committed crimes. And if it were things SOLELY for one's home, like food and shit, I would still take issue, but would understand. But the overwhelming majority of blacks in prison aren't there for petty theft at the local 7-11.

[Black Diamond]

What is your take on why blacks are predominately on welfare and in prisons?
Broken culture for one.

[pete311]

I don't absolve anyone of crimes, but you need to watch the documentary. It's fascinating. I mean they even have two presidential advisers on record via undercover telling how certain policies were put into place to harm the black community. Don't think it's all on one party either. They examine Bill Clinton's role quite heavily.

[pete311]

Broken culture for one.
Yes! The documentry is about how the culture was broken.

[Black Diamond]

Yes! The documentry is about how the culture was broken.
And that's all whiteys fault.

[pete311]

And that's all whiteys fault.
watch the documentry

[jimnyc]

It's free on Netflix. The director also did the fantastic movie Selma. Take the time and watch it. It explores history from the time of slavery to modern day how mass incarceration of African Americans has developed. It's thoroughly shocking and insightful. It's as unbiased as I've ever seen laying blame on both sides of the isle (The Clintons are attacked, Gingrich has sound bites), on the media, on the public and on private companies. Watching this is just the beginning of understanding, I'd also suggest reading the book "The New Jim Crow". The author has several sound bites in this film.


Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V66F3WU2CKk

I can already hear the reactionary responses of where is the personal responsibility, where is the blame for the criminals. The doc does not attempt to absolve or pardon any crime. Just put your reactionary opinions down, watch it open minded and learn something.

I didn't watch the trailer until just now. I didn't realize this was somehow comparing prison to slavery? Slavery was no fault of their own. the 13th amendment isn't about damn prisoners who committed darned crimes. Underneath the trailer makes it easy for others:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States.”

I say they should release and free every single black person in jail that wasn't duly convicted of a crime.

[Black Diamond]

I didn't watch the trailer until just now. I didn't realize this was somehow comparing prison to slavery? Slavery was no fault of their own. the 13th amendment isn't about damn prisoners who committed darned crimes. Underneath the trailer makes it easy for others:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States.”

I say they should release and free every single black person in jail that wasn't duly convicted of a crime.
Prison equals slavery. Hmm. Maybe I should watch "Maryl" instead.

[pete311]

I didn't watch the trailer until just now. I didn't realize this was somehow comparing prison to slavery? Slavery was no fault of their own. the 13th amendment isn't about damn prisoners who committed darned crimes. Underneath the trailer makes it easy for others:

“Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States.”

I say they should release and free every single black person in jail that wasn't duly convicted of a crime.

Thanks for at least watching the trailer, but watch the entire thing. There are systems put in place after slavery to imprison blacks. You see a bit of why we are where we are. The media, politicians and private companies all had a role. The film does a very good job.

[jimnyc]

Thanks for at least watching the trailer, but watch the entire thing. There are systems put in place after slavery to imprison blacks. You see a bit of why we are where we are. The media, politicians and private companies all had a role. The film does a very good job.

I have, no lie, 63 movies in my docket. :) The next is 'The autopsy of Jane Doe' - and then it's onto Jack Reacher. I'll downloa.... I mean purchase this one maybe down the road. :)

[SassyLady]

I don't have Netflix so can't watch .... does it say anything about Native Americans and the correlation of white complicity (policies) to criminalization?

[Gunny]

I don't have Netflix so can't watch .... does it say anything about Native Americans and the correlation of white complicity (policies) to criminalization?

I don't even have a right arm anymore. It works when it wants to.

One of my favorite movies EVER is Billy Jack. Don't come screwing a round here. We got a hookup for your ass ...

[SassyLady]

I don't even have a right arm anymore. It works when it wants to.

One of my favorite movies EVER is Billy Jack. Don't come screwing a round here. We got a hookup for your ass ...

Gunny.....I would strongly advise you to not talk about my ass. You will not disrespect me.
:slap:

[Gunny]

Gunny.....I would strongly advise you to not talk about my ass. You will not disrespect me.
:slap:ma"am i wouldnt know what to d o with your ass at this point but suggest popcorn and a movie.

[SassyLady]

ma"am i wouldnt know what to d o with your ass at this point but suggest popcorn and a movie.

:doofus:

[CSM]

How the heck did I go from a topic of the whys and wherefors of slavery to contemplating Sassy's posterior??? This board is a marvel sometimes!

[SassyLady]

How the heck did I go from a topic of the whys and wherefors of slavery to contemplating Sassy's posterior??? This board is a marvel sometimes!
Was a surpriseto me as well but wans't going let Gunny pull his crazy rant on me.

There are certain people, special ones only, that can contemplate my arse but I'd rather they keep conclusions to self.

[Gunny]

What is your take on why blacks are predominately on welfare and in prisons?

They won't step up and are waiting on a handout. Skin color is not an excuse. My best friend in HS was black. Some of my best Marines were black. I never asked what color they were. ALL Marines bleed green.

YOU are the racist. We never tolerated that sh*t. You gear up like everyone else. You just want to play a blame game as an excuse for bad behavior.

[fj1200]

What is your take on why blacks are predominately on welfare and in prisons?


They won't step up and are waiting on a handout.

Nope. Government.

[jimnyc]

Nope. Government.

Both, IMO. The government doesn't force everyone to stay on welfare as long as humanly possible, and choose it instead of employment as many abuse it. And it's not all the governments fault that some commit violent crimes.

[fj1200]

Both, IMO. The government doesn't force everyone to stay on welfare as long as humanly possible, and choose it instead of employment as many abuse it. And it's not all the governments fault that some commit violent crimes.

Government. The determining factor in crime rates is family structure which has been crushed by government for the lower socio-economic portions of society which also leads to the welfare factors.

[jimnyc]

Government. The determining factor in crime rates is family structure which has been crushed by government for the lower socio-economic portions of society which also leads to the welfare factors.

So if someone goes out and violently beats the crap out of a woman and rapes her - it's the fault of the government? I couldn't disagree more. NOTHING in socio-economics should turn someone into a rapist criminal, that's ALL on their own.

As for welfare, I agree that SOME get there for the reasons you state - and like I said, SOME abuse it purposely. ONE example of tons, and this is NOT the fault of the government that she CHOOSES to remain unemployed and on welfare. If anything, they are to blame for allowing this to continue.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kt2PqRwakI

[Gunny]

Was a surpriseto me as well but wans't going let Gunny pull his crazy rant on me.

There are certain people, special ones only, that can contemplate my arse but I'd rather they keep conclusions to self.

One, you have to keep up. I didn't even see what you posted until today. I meant no disrespect and I'm only slightly crazy. I can't keep up with posts anymore. I run into them days later. Apparently being dead for a few minutes will do that for you.

I WILL say this ... some of you people are just too damned sensitive. You couldn't pay me to disrespect a woman.I am a Southern gentleman, It is and always has been a damned weakness. I's rather take on the Iranian army single-handedly than deal with one woman. Y'all are screwy and make no sense.

But ... if you're going to play ... I WILL tease you. :)

And I don't know anything about your backside, ma'am. I don't like the accusation "rant". Goofing would be a better verb. So who is on a rant here? And ... you will have to inform me personally of any reply or I probably won't see it.

[fj1200]

So if someone goes out and violently beats the crap out of a woman and rapes her - it's the fault of the government? I couldn't disagree more. NOTHING in socio-economics should turn someone into a rapist criminal, that's ALL on their own.

As for welfare, I agree that SOME get there for the reasons you state - and like I said, SOME abuse it purposely. ONE example of tons, and this is NOT the fault of the government that she CHOOSES to remain unemployed and on welfare. If anything, they are to blame for allowing this to continue.

I was talking about crime rates and the determining factor. Any criminal is personally responsible.

I never said that there wasn't welfare abuse.

[jimnyc]

I was talking about crime rates and the determining factor. Any criminal is personally responsible.

I never said that there wasn't welfare abuse.

My bad read once again then. When he spoke of abuses... I thought you were blaming the government. And I agree 100% about criminals, regardless of race. Hell, I've done stupid shit in my younger years, and got in legal trouble. While I was angry at the time and didn't like the coppers, I was 100% wrong and got what I deserved. :)

[SassyLady]

One, you have to keep up. I didn't even see what you posted until today. I meant no disrespect and I'm only slightly crazy. I can't keep up with posts anymore. I run into them days later. Apparently being dead for a few minutes will do that for you.

I WILL say this ... some of you people are just too damned sensitive. You couldn't pay me to disrespect a woman.I am a Southern gentleman, It is and always has been a damned weakness. I's rather take on the Iranian army single-handedly than deal with one woman. Y'all are screwy and make no sense.

But ... if you're going to play ... I WILL tease you. :)

And I don't know anything about your backside, ma'am. I don't like the accusation "rant". Goofing would be a better verb. So who is on a rant here? And ... you will have to inform me personally of any reply or I probably won't see it.

I know you were goofing Gunny, and I was goofing back at ya ... reminding you to not mess with ex wife of a CSM.