Senator McCain says U.S. 'must stand up to Vladimir Putin' [Reuters] By Margarita Ant

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senator-mccain-says-u-stands-ukraine-against-russia-013240503.html


Senator McCain says U.S. 'must stand up to Vladimir Putin'
[Reuters]
By Margarita Antidze and Sergei Karazy
ReutersJanuary 1, 2017
Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko, left, awards visiting US Sen. John McCain with Ukrainian state award in Kiev, Ukraine, Friday, Dec. 30, 2016. (Mykola Lazarenko/ Presidential Press Service Pool Photo via AP)

By Margarita Antidze and Sergei Karazy

TBILISI/KIEV (Reuters) - Republican Senator John McCain said on Sunday the United States could only improve its relations with Russia by taking a tough stance with President Putin, calling for stronger sanctions against Moscow.

On a tour of the Baltic states, Ukraine and Georgia, McCain and other senators assured the former Soviet-dominated countries that the United States would support them, despite President-elect Donald Trump's praise of Putin and expressions of doubts about NATO.

"We will strongly urge our colleagues toward more meaningful and stronger sanctions against Russia because of their attack on the United States of America," McCain told reporters in Georgia's capital Tbilisi.

"I believe that we must continue to improve our relations and to understand that Vladimir Putin - unless we stand up to him - will continue his aggression and we must stand up to Vladimir Putin," McCain said.

On Thursday, President Barack Obama ordered the expulsion of 35 Russian diplomats and imposed sanctions on two Russian intelligence agencies over the hacking of U.S. political groups during the election.

But Trump signalled during his campaign that he might take a softer line with Moscow, and on Friday congratulated Putin for not retaliating to the expulsions, tweeting: "Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!"

Earlier, in Kiev, McCain vowed continued U.S. support to Ukraine.

"I send the message from the American people - we are with you, your fight is our fight and we will win together," McCain was quoted as saying by Ukrainian President Poroshenko's press service.

"In 2017 we will defeat the invaders and send them back where they came from. To Vladimir Putin - you will never defeat the Ukrainian people and deprive them of their independence and freedom," McCain said.

Reinforcing the line that the U.S. Congress could oppose any move by Trump to take a softer line on Russia, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, travelling with McCain and others, said it was time "to push back against Putin, to be a better friend to our allies here including Georgia."

"So 2017 is a year of offence and we're going to tell our colleagues what's at stake if we don't push back," Graham said.

(Editing by Robin Pomeroy)
[Reuters]
By Margarita Antidze and Sergei Karazy
ReutersJanuary 1, 2017
Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko, left, awards visiting US Sen. John McCain with Ukrainian state award in Kiev, Ukraine, Friday, Dec. 30, 2016. (Mykola Lazarenko/ Presidential Press Service Pool Photo via AP)

By Margarita Antidze and Sergei Karazy

TBILISI/KIEV (Reuters) - Republican Senator John McCain said on Sunday the United States could only improve its relations with Russia by taking a tough stance with President Putin, calling for stronger sanctions against Moscow.

On a tour of the Baltic states, Ukraine and Georgia, McCain and other senators assured the former Soviet-dominated countries that the United States would support them, despite President-elect Donald Trump's praise of Putin and expressions of doubts about NATO.

"We will strongly urge our colleagues toward more meaningful and stronger sanctions against Russia because of their attack on the United States of America," McCain told reporters in Georgia's capital Tbilisi.

"I believe that we must continue to improve our relations and to understand that Vladimir Putin - unless we stand up to him - will continue his aggression and we must stand up to Vladimir Putin," McCain said.

On Thursday, President Barack Obama ordered the expulsion of 35 Russian diplomats and imposed sanctions on two Russian intelligence agencies over the hacking of U.S. political groups during the election.

But Trump signalled during his campaign that he might take a softer line with Moscow, and on Friday congratulated Putin for not retaliating to the expulsions, tweeting: "Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!"

Earlier, in Kiev, McCain vowed continued U.S. support to Ukraine.

"I send the message from the American people - we are with you, your fight is our fight and we will win together," McCain was quoted as saying by Ukrainian President Poroshenko's press service.

"In 2017 we will defeat the invaders and send them back where they came from. To Vladimir Putin - you will never defeat the Ukrainian people and deprive them of their independence and freedom," McCain said.

Reinforcing the line that the U.S. Congress could oppose any move by Trump to take a softer line on Russia, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, travelling with McCain and others, said it was time "to push back against Putin, to be a better friend to our allies here including Georgia."

"So 2017 is a year of offence and we're going to tell our colleagues what's at stake if we don't push back," Graham said.

(Editing by Robin Pomeroy)

Every time I see McCain' s damn name I know the ffing bastard has crossed the aisle to proof yet again what a maverick(read maggot), he is.
This time as so may times before he sides with the dems, and now with the obama in his bid to toss stumbling blocks upon any Republican that can be targeted(Trump)..
Now McSame, the ffing RINO, HAS JOINED IN WITH THE OBAMA ABOUT RUSSIA AND WHY WE SHOULD TAKE A HARD-LINE STAND..
Strange that obama never did so before but will now happily toss that snowball to roll downhill for Trump to have to handle.

When will John McCAIN RETIRE OR DIE??
Either one suits me just fine, as he in my book, is just a lousy sold-out bastard.
I'd spit on him myself, if we were ever face to face..-Tyr

[Gunny]

Every time I see McCain' s damn name I know the ffing bastard has crossed the aisle to proof yet again what a maverick(read maggot), he is.
This time as so may times before he sides with the dems, and now with the obama in his bid to toss stumbling blocks upon any Republican that can be targeted(Trump)..
Now McSame, the ffing RINO, HAS JOINED IN WITH THE OBAMA ABOUT RUSSIA AND WHY WE SHOULD TAKE A HARD-LINE STAND..
Strange that obama never did so before but will now happily toss that snowball to roll downhill for Trump to have to handle.

When will John McCAIN RETIRE OR DIE??
Either one suits me just fine, as he in my book, is just a lousy sold-out bastard.
I'd spit on him myself, if we were ever face to face..-Tyr

He needs to give it up. His time has been WAY over. Nothing new nor cool about him. He's just another talking head.

[Black Diamond]

He needs to give it up. His time has been WAY over. Nothing new nor cool about him. He's just another talking head.

John Kerry should have chosen him as his veep. Would have been so apropos.

This was a possibility btw.

[aboutime]

McCain is just holding up his side of the deal he made with the S. Carolina senator Grahm, who are both making themselves look like total, lonely idiots in front of their voters.
McCain, and Grahm do not like Trump because he is going to TAKE AWAY their GOLDEN CHARIOTS in Washington. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that both of them VOTE against Trump...just for the sake of CUTTING OFF THEIR NOSES.

Time for both Senators to either grow a pair, or just GO AWAY.

Watch what happens after 20 January. TWO senators (RINOS) will be serving their LAST TERM in the senate. They should change their names to CLINTON, and OBAMA.

[Balu]

Every time I see McCain' s damn name I know the ffing bastard has crossed the aisle to proof yet again what a maverick(read maggot), he is.
This time as so may times before he sides with the dems, and now with the obama in his bid to toss stumbling blocks upon any Republican that can be targeted(Trump)..
Now McSame, the ffing RINO, HAS JOINED IN WITH THE OBAMA ABOUT RUSSIA AND WHY WE SHOULD TAKE A HARD-LINE STAND..
Strange that obama never did so before but will now happily toss that snowball to roll downhill for Trump to have to handle.

When will John McCAIN RETIRE OR DIE??
Either one suits me just fine, as he in my book, is just a lousy sold-out bastard.
I'd spit on him myself, if we were ever face to face..-Tyr
Be forgiving and generous. Do not forget that he has experienced the Vietnamese hospitality for 5 years and it brought results. You are lucky he did not burn an aircraft-carrier USS Forrestal and then there were only 25s fighters. From the combination of his merits Senator McCain could be a long time promoted to the rank of the Hero of the Soviet Union. :laugh:

[Noir]

Every time I see McCain' s damn name I know the ffing bastard has crossed the aisle to proof yet again what a maverick(read maggot), he is.
This time as so may times before he sides with the dems, and now with the obama in his bid to toss stumbling blocks upon any Republican that can be targeted(Trump)..
Now McSame, the ffing RINO, HAS JOINED IN WITH THE OBAMA ABOUT RUSSIA AND WHY WE SHOULD TAKE A HARD-LINE STAND..
Strange that obama never did so before but will now happily toss that snowball to roll downhill for Trump to have to handle.

When will John McCAIN RETIRE OR DIE??
Either one suits me just fine, as he in my book, is just a lousy sold-out bastard.
I'd spit on him myself, if we were ever face to face..-Tyr

Why do you disagree with the stance that Ukraine should be an independent nation?

[Gunny]

John Kerry should have chosen him as his veep. Would have been so apropos.

This was a possibility btw.

I would beat Kerry's ass. My disgust for that lying traitor goes deeper than deep. He did more in his 4 whole months overseas than an Oliver Stone movie. According to him. Then he comes back to the world and sells out his bro's and I got a dollar says he made that shit up. We ain't talking any mercy here. The fact our idiot in chief made him Sec of State is just more spit in the eye.

F*ck him and whatever train he rode into town on. You want to see a crippled old man get wired up and kick an ass? Put him anywhere near me. I seldom use the word hate, but I hate HIM.

[Balu]

Why do you disagree with the stance that Ukraine should be an independent nation?
Theку are a lot of tribes and nationalities in the World. But not every tribe or nationality can form a Nation, especially if this "nationality" is artificially constricted. Once, at the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, addressing to George W. Bush, Putin said - ‘You Have to Understand, George. Ukraine Is Not Even a State’ :laugh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5JaTQpTvYBA/VOohJ8_EuYI/AAAAAAADJFQ/XQcUj4YjXRo/w604-h422-no/5dbbae1f-e35f-4a5b-a665-22a06aa00c17

[Gunny]

And while I am at it, that idiot McCain was one of the lousiest pilots in the US Navy. His third crash got him a trip to the Hanoi Hilton and he's suddenly some kind of hero according to the PC and the left. Being a f*ckup and getting captured doesn't make you a hero in MY book, It makes you a f*uckup. So let's call a spade a spade.

[CSM]

And while I am at it, that idiot McCain was one of the lousiest pilots in the US Navy. His third crash got him a trip to the Hanoi Hilton and he's suddenly some kind of hero according to the PC and the left. Being a f*ckup and getting captured doesn't make you a hero in MY book, It makes you a f*uckup. So let's call a spade a spade.

That sort of thing is tradition in the US. Does the name "Custer" ring a bell? Got his entire command wiped out in one battle.....

[Noir]

Theку are a lot of tribes and nationalities in the World. But not every tribe or nationality can form a Nation, especially if this "nationality" is artificially constricted. Once, at the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest, Romania, addressing to George W. Bush, Putin said - ‘You Have to Understand, George. Ukraine Is Not Even a State’ :laugh:

All nations are artificially constructed.
Sure looks to me like tens of millions of Ukrainians have been living in their own nation my entire life...

[Balu]

All nations are artificially constructed.
Sure looks to me like tens of millions of Ukrainians have been living in their own nation my entire life...
You got bad marks at school and don't know History? You don't know the difference between nationality and Nation?
ALL the NATIONS were formed in a course of History and NOBODY gave them a State as a Gift. They created it THEMSELVES.
There is a good illustration - 25 years period (1945-1970) for Germany, Japan and the USSR, and 1991-2016 for Russia and Ukraine. You can see the difference of results of those, who are Nations, and who are not.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Why do you disagree with the stance that Ukraine should be an independent nation?
Not our job, not our responsibility to help them.
Just that damn simple-- did they help us in our REVOLTION-1776?
Besides this crap with John McSAME, THE OLD SOLD-OUT BASTARD, IS HE AIDING THE OBAMA AND THE DEMS LIKE HE HAS DOWN TOO MANY TIMES BEFORE.
I'd spit on him myself and I've actually done that , to true sorry-ass scum, to get them to take a swing at me , when I was young.
Then I had my excuse(personal one) for stomping the ffing pieces of shit.

John McSame and John Kerry, both are pieces of sold-out shit that betray this nation. Fact.. -Tyr

[Drummond]

Not our job, not our responsibility to help them.
Just that damn simple-- did they help us in our REVOLTION-1776?
Besides this crap with John McSAME, THE OLD SOLD-OUT BASTARD, IS HE AIDING THE OBAMA AND THE DEMS LIKE HE HAS DOWN TOO MANY TIMES BEFORE.
I'd spit on him myself and I've actually done that , to true sorry-ass scum, to get them to take a swing at me , when I was young.
Then I had my excuse(personal one) for stomping the ffing pieces of shit.

John McSame and John Kerry, both are pieces of sold-out shit that betray this nation. Fact.. -Tyr

I understand that point of view. Nonetheless ... if Putin gets it into his head that the West will stand idly by while Russia will gobble up more and more territories (e.g Crimea), then it sets a precedent, or at least COULD, for the formation of a 21st century version of a USSR.

Did the world benefit from the 20th century's manifestation of it ? Or did it see countries subjugated (and a SEVEN MILLION death toll in Ukraine, under Stalin), and a Cold War that could've escalated into all-out nuclear conflict ?

There's nothing wrong with a President seeking good and warm relations with Russia's leaders. BUT ... I suggest that there's everything wrong with letting someone like Putin think he has a free hand to get away with absolutely everything he chooses to, without fear of adverse consequences.

Allow that, and you risk a newly-destabilised world.

I trust Trump to be nobody's puppet. I suspect that Putin thinks he could be made to be one.

[Noir]

Not our job, not our responsibility to help them.

Welcoming the neo-USSR with open arms? Fair enough.



Just that damn simple-- did they help us in our REVOLTION-1776?

yeah, why didn't Ukraine assist with the 1776 revolution...it's a mystery:laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Welcoming the neo-USSR with open arms? Fair enough.



:

So you DO want us to be the world police. Be nice if you leftists would make up your minds

[Drummond]

So you DO want us to be the world police. Be nice if you leftists would make up your minds

Excellent reply. The Left needs to finally try and be consistent if it also wants to be credible.

But I don't see this as a 'policing' issue. I say that it's in nobody's interests, perhaps least of all in the interests of the US, if Putin really does go all out to build his version of a USSR.

When a major nuclear power turns as belligerent as the USSR did on the world stage, we're all in trouble. Putin looks to me like a thoughtful, cautious, yet ultimately highly belligerent, leader of a power hell bent on dominating whoever they can.

[Noir]

So you DO want us to be the world police. Be nice if you leftists would make up your minds

This is not a 'policing' issue, as Drummond said.
Are you also of the 'don't care, not my business' crowd? Or what is your position, if you've made up your mind.

[Gunny]

I understand that point of view. Nonetheless ... if Putin gets it into his head that the West will stand idly by while Russia will gobble up more and more territories (e.g Crimea), then it sets a precedent, or at least COULD, for the formation of a 21st century version of a USSR.

Did the world benefit from the 20th century's manifestation of it ? Or did it see countries subjugated (and a SEVEN MILLION death toll in Ukraine, under Stalin), and a Cold War that could've escalated into all-out nuclear conflict ?

There's nothing wrong with a President seeking good and warm relations with Russia's leaders. BUT ... I suggest that there's everything wrong with letting someone like Putin think he has a free hand to get away with absolutely everything he chooses to, without fear of adverse consequences.

Allow that, and you risk a newly-destabilised world.

I trust Trump to be nobody's puppet. I suspect that Putin thinks he could be made to be one.

Had an old saying when the USSR broke up .... "The bear is STILL there". Had a pic of the Soviet Union broken into different countries but still in the form of a bear. It was a communications security warning poster.

Changing your name makes you nothing less that what you are.

[Gunny]

That sort of thing is tradition in the US. Does the name "Custer" ring a bell? Got his entire command wiped out in one battle.....

Don't know about you Sergeant Major, but I can't stand the gratuitous "thanks for your service" crap the left deals out after the beating they took politically for the way they treated Nam vets. You just never know who is and is not sincere (besides the obvious insincere morons). Thank a cop or a fireman. They do more than I ever did on a daily basis. I spent 99% of my time training.

And to quote Sam Elliot from the Ia Drang movie (Once we were Soldiers?) "Custer was a p*ssy)". Did no recon. Had no idea what the enemy's forces were. Sent Reno off out of a personal pissing contest weakening his command even more. Then charged headlong into an unknown enemy. Brilliant. All those people died for his ego.

[CSM]

Don't know about you Sergeant Major, but I can't stand the gratuitous "thanks for your service" crap the left deals out after the beating they took politically for the way they treated Nam vets. You just never know who is and is not sincere (besides the obvious insincere morons). Thank a cop or a fireman. They do more than I ever did on a daily basis. I spent 99% of my time training.

And to quote Sam Elliot from the Ia Drang movie (Once we were Soldiers?) "Custer was a p*ssy)". Did no recon. Had no idea what the enemy's forces were. Sent Reno off out of a personal pissing contest weakening his command even more. Then charged headlong into an unknown enemy. Brilliant. All those people died for his ego.

Yep. I have a list. Starts with Jane Fonda, followed closely by Kerry...

As far as I am concerned, the children/grandchildren (with few exceptions) of those hippies were/are the foundation for the liberal left ... don't have much use for them and wouldn't waste the C4 it takes to blow them away. Might be tempted to use JP on them.... LOL.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I understand that point of view. Nonetheless ... if Putin gets it into his head that the West will stand idly by while Russia will gobble up more and more territories (e.g Crimea), then it sets a precedent, or at least COULD, for the formation of a 21st century version of a USSR.

Did the world benefit from the 20th century's manifestation of it ? Or did it see countries subjugated (and a SEVEN MILLION death toll in Ukraine, under Stalin), and a Cold War that could've escalated into all-out nuclear conflict ?

There's nothing wrong with a President seeking good and warm relations with Russia's leaders. BUT ... I suggest that there's everything wrong with letting someone like Putin think he has a free hand to get away with absolutely everything he chooses to, without fear of adverse consequences.

Allow that, and you risk a newly-destabilised world.

I trust Trump to be nobody's puppet. I suspect that Putin thinks he could be made to be one.

I AGREE MY FRIEND. In that while the weak obama stood by, Russia took action.
Now Trump comes in-- can we expect no more greater action involving other players there? No more disputes over territory, etc?
In my opinion the answer is yes, in regards to Putin increasing conflict in that region--for he knows that Trump is no weak obama!

Should Trump just let Russia and the Ukraine sort it out? In my opinion the answer is yes--in that its not worth it to start a world war over this dispute.
Especially since we have an emerging belligerent Iran nuking up, N. Korea nuked up, ISIS IN SYRIA MAKING FURTHER TERRITORY GRABS AND PURSUING WORLD DOMINATION BY PROMISED MUSLIM CALIPHATE, Israel being verbally attacked by just about the entire world, and not least of which is -- China making expansionist moves !

Wisdom says when attacked/threatened upon many fronts --One absolutely must pick the best one to engage first!

-Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Welcoming the neo-USSR with open arms? Fair enough.




yeah, why didn't Ukraine assist with the 1776 revolution...it's a mystery:laugh:


yeah, why didn't Ukraine assist with the 1776 revolution...it's a mystery

^^ Did the point made , just fly over your head?
If they want separation and their freedom--let them shed blood as we did.
Why should we involve ourselves, in that obama allowed this to go on and its too damn late to barge in like the Hulk and demand sovereignty for
Ukraine.
Should Russia take same action AGAINST US , if Alaska chose to leave our UNION?

This is a pragmatic view, not one based upon the moral issues of the ongoing conflict and the right and wrong of it all.
That is for philosophers, priests and attention seeking politicians, the likes of-- John Kerry, JOHN TWO-FACED McSame and the bastard obama to blather on about.--Tyr

[Gunny]

Yep. I have a list. Starts with Jane Fonda, followed closely by Kerry...

As far as I am concerned, the children/grandchildren (with few exceptions) of those hippies were/are the foundation for the liberal left ... don't have much use for them and wouldn't waste the C4 it takes to blow them away. Might be tempted to use JP on them.... LOL.

JP? As in JP-5 jet fuel? Damn. I'm not even THAT mean. :laugh:

[CSM]

JP? As in JP-5 jet fuel? Damn. I'm not even THAT mean. :laugh:

Nobody knows the depth of my hatred for those on my list ... just sayin

[Gunny]

I AGREE MY FRIEND. In that while the weak obama stood by, Russia took action.
Now Trump comes in-- can we expect no more greater action involving other players there? No more disputes over territory, etc?
In my opinion the answer is yes, in regards to Putin increasing conflict in that region--for he knows that Trump is no weak obama!

Should Trump just let Russia and the Ukraine sort it out? In my opinion the answer is yes--in that its not worth it to start a world war over this dispute.
Especially since we have an emerging belligerent Iran nuking up, N. Korea nuked up, ISIS IN SYRIA MAKING FURTHER TERRITORY GRABS AND PURSUING WORLD DOMINATION BY PROMISED MUSLIM CALIPHATE, Israel being verbally attacked by just about the entire world, and not least of which is -- China making expansionist moves !

Wisdom says when attacked/threatened upon many fronts --One absolutely must pick the best one to engage first!

-Tyr

I agree to a point. Russia has always been Russia and they aren't going to change. The problem we have or should address is containment. But do we want another "Cold War"? And if we are going to bail out these 3rd world countries, what are we willing to pay? THAT is our problem. Talk a good game but no one is willing to stay the course and pay the price.

We HAD Iraq then along comes a jerkoff to pull the plug. You can say the same about Nam. Militarily we had no rival. Then along comes our media. To me, the MSM is our real enemy.

[aboutime]

http://youtu.be/bPXVGQnJm0w

McCain doesn't think Trump feels like he does about Putin?
McCain has spent too much time loving the smell of JP-5 now.
His day of danger on the carrier, and being held as a POW in the Hanoi Hilton made him a hero. But even OLD AGE takes it's toll these days. Time to Retire John.

[Drummond]

I AGREE MY FRIEND. In that while the weak obama stood by, Russia took action.
Now Trump comes in-- can we expect no more greater action involving other players there? No more disputes over territory, etc?
In my opinion the answer is yes, in regards to Putin increasing conflict in that region--for he knows that Trump is no weak obama!

Should Trump just let Russia and the Ukraine sort it out? In my opinion the answer is yes--in that its not worth it to start a world war over this dispute.
Especially since we have an emerging belligerent Iran nuking up, N. Korea nuked up, ISIS IN SYRIA MAKING FURTHER TERRITORY GRABS AND PURSUING WORLD DOMINATION BY PROMISED MUSLIM CALIPHATE, Israel being verbally attacked by just about the entire world, and not least of which is -- China making expansionist moves !

Wisdom says when attacked/threatened upon many fronts --One absolutely must pick the best one to engage first!

-Tyr

There are definitely some major issues needing attention, agreed. Especially the terroristic belligerency of Muslims being true to their ACTUAL religion ...

What concerns me about Putin, where Trump is concerned, is that Putin might hope to gain from the fact that, until now, Trump has been no form of politician. He's been a businessman, used to doing deals, maybe haggling, and suchlike. Putin might assess Trump as (a) politically naive, thanks to lack of experience, and (b) a deal-maker, therefore, someone who'll compromise in order to get the best 'deal' available.

If this is how Putin is thinking, then we can expect him to capitalise on Trump being in the White House. Or at least, he will TRY to. But in the trying ... he'll make the world that much more dangerous a place to live in.

I do think that a re-creation of Cold War conditions is on the cards. Putin has already grabbed Crimea. Our own (British) intelligence fraternity thinks it's only a matter of time before Putin moves on another country. With that happening ... well ... should anyone in the West sit idly by and just let a latter-day USSR evolve ?

[Balu]

yeah, why didn't Ukraine assist with the 1776 revolution...it's a mystery:laugh:

True! They were not able to assist as they did not exist till 1918 even as a nationality. And the word Ukraine meant a territory 'at the edge' - У-краи-на where "У" = "at", "край" = "edge" and the term Ukrainian meant people lived at the edge of Russia, the same meaning as Siberian. Ukrainians didn't have own language. What they had was called the southern Russian dialect and every Russian understood it before the West appointed to Ukrainians in the anti constitutional 3-rd round of the elections Victor Yushchenko - a husband of a former CIA employee Ekaterina Chumachenko. After that, "the Ukrainian language" was replenished with Polonism and became a little understood and for the residents of the eastern After that, "the Ukrainian language" was replenished by Polonisms and became a little understandable for the people of the eastern and southeastern part of Ukraine.
Every nationality and Nation remains the architectural and literature monuments proving their existence. Nobody is able to find such proofs of Ukrainians. That's why they are teaching their children at schools, that Ukrainians were the progenitors of the ancient Greeks, Romans, dug up the Black Sea and even that the Buddha was a Ukrainian. I am not kidding. All this would be very funny if it were not so sad.

[Gunny]

There are definitely some major issues needing attention, agreed. Especially the terroristic belligerency of Muslims being true to their ACTUAL religion ...

What concerns me about Putin, where Trump is concerned, is that Putin might hope to gain from the fact that, until now, Trump has been no form of politician. He's been a businessman, used to doing deals, maybe haggling, and suchlike. Putin might assess Trump as (a) politically naive, thanks to lack of experience, and (b) a deal-maker, therefore, someone who'll compromise in order to get the best 'deal' available.

If this is how Putin is thinking, then we can expect him to capitalise on Trump being in the White House. Or at least, he will TRY to. But in the trying ... he'll make the world that much more dangerous a place to live in.

I do think that a re-creation of Cold War conditions is on the cards. Putin has already grabbed Crimea. Our own (British) intelligence fraternity thinks it's only a matter of time before Putin moves on another country. With that happening ... well ... should anyone in the West sit idly by and just let a latter-day USSR evolve ?

Drummond, one can only wish but I hpt Trump was just keeping his mouth shut and comes out being the a-hole he is. I ain't no Trump fan but if he starts ramming this crap up peoples' asses? Put me on the team.

[Balu]

I AGREE MY FRIEND. In that while the weak obama stood by, Russia took action.
Now Trump comes in-- can we expect no more greater action involving other players there? No more disputes over territory, etc?
In my opinion the answer is yes, in regards to Putin increasing conflict in that region--for he knows that Trump is no weak obama!

Should Trump just let Russia and the Ukraine sort it out? In my opinion the answer is yes--in that its not worth it to start a world war over this dispute.
Especially since we have an emerging belligerent Iran nuking up, N. Korea nuked up, ISIS IN SYRIA MAKING FURTHER TERRITORY GRABS AND PURSUING WORLD DOMINATION BY PROMISED MUSLIM CALIPHATE, Israel being verbally attacked by just about the entire world, and not least of which is -- China making expansionist moves !

Wisdom says when attacked/threatened upon many fronts --One absolutely must pick the best one to engage first!

-Tyr
As to Crimea...
I would like to remind you about the Will of Crimean Republic population expressed during the referendum after the West financed, organized and conducted the Nazi coup in Kiev, February, 2014.

Crimea votes to leave Ukraine in secession referendum and join Russia


Crimea election chief reports 95% vote to secede, voter turnout exceeded 80%


https://on.rt.com/hvy91z

(https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)<header>CBS/AP March 17, 2014, 3:56 AM
Official results: 97 percent of Crimea voters back joining Russia</header>

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Last Updated Mar 17, 2014 10:23 AM EDT

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine -- Ukraine's Crimean peninsula declared itself independent Monday after its residents voted overwhelmingly to secede (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/crimeans-vote-overwhelmingly-to-secede-from-ukraine-join-russia/) and join Russia, while the United States and the European Union slapped sanctions against some of those who promoted the divisive referendum.
Ukraine's political turmoil (http://www.cbsnews.com/ukraine-crisis/) has become Europe's most severe security crisis in years and tensions have been high since Russian troops seized control of Crimea two weeks ago. Large numbers of Russian troops are also massed near the border with Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, which has sharp political differences with the country's new government in Kiev.
The U.S., EU and Ukraine's new government do not recognize the referendum held Sunday in Crimea (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-crisis-us-rejects-bogus-secession-vote-in-crimea-citing-russian-meddling/), saying it violates both Ukrainian and international norms. Moscow, however, considers the vote legitimate and Russian President Putin was to address both houses of parliament Tuesday on the Crimean situation.
<figure class="gallery overlay-video">http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/16/9f13bff1-0ee6-46e8-9d4b-9a1412a71252/thumbnail/220x140/cc0450039006775d08586747dddb50ca/sunmo-0316-brennan-640x360.jpg<figcaption>Play Video
World Despite international condemnation, Crimea holds referendum Crimea's residents head to the polls to vote in a referendum that will determine whether Crimea will secede from the Ukraine and join Russia. As ...
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/despite-international-condemnation-crimea-holds-referendum)
The Crimean referendum could also encourage rising pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine's east and lead to further divisions in this nation of 46 million. A delegation of Crimean lawmakers was traveling to Moscow on Monday for negotiations on how to proceed. Russian lawmakers have suggested that formally annexing Crimea is almost certain - with one saying it could happen within days.
Those living on the strategic Black Sea peninsula applauded the move, since it received over 97 percent backing from voters.
"We came back home to Mother Russia. We came back home, Russia is our home," said Nikolay Drozdenko, a resident in Sevastopol, the key Crimean port where Russia leases a naval base from Ukraine.
<figure class="image pull-none image-large ">http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/13/365bf318-6e7e-4eca-bede-d9e38da0c977/resize/620x/3aa42e3c5af00b4527061f1c5fd5e57b/ukraine-v03-620x350.jpg<figcaption> CBS
</figcaption></figure>The Crimean parliament declared that all Ukrainian state property on the peninsula will be nationalized and become the property of the Crimean Republic. Lawmakers also asked the United Nations and other nations to recognize it and began work on setting up a central bank with $30 million in support from Russia. The United States announced sanctions (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-announces-sanctions-against-russian-officials/) against seven Russian officials, while the EU's foreign ministers slapped travel bans and asset freezes against 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine following Crimea referendum. The ministers did not immediately release the names and nationalities of those targeted by the sanctions.
While the diplomatic standoff between Moscow and the West -- with Ukraine in the middle -- heats up, CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports that the Crimeans who voted to join Russia are now ever more convinced they're on their way.
<figure class="gallery overlay-video">http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/17/93752825-249b-4af3-8611-0398357aecc9/thumbnail/220x140/e7e774ab7bc3c5d941d2fdca953f33a2/en-0316-palmer-640x360.jpg<figcaption>Play Video
CBS Evening News Crimea referendum: overwhelming support for joining Russia Exit polls from Sunday's referendum in Crimea show overwhelming support for separating from Ukraine and for joining the Russian Federation, but m...
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/crimea-referendum-overwhelming-support-for-joining-russia)
As soon as the tally was in, the party on the streets in the Crimean capital of Simferopol started. Palmer says Crimea's new prime minister said aloud what many in the crowd before him were feeling. "Dear friends," said Sergei Aksyonov to the crowd in Lenin Square, "we are going home, to Russia!"
Palmer says the voting on Sunday was orderly, and turnout was heavy. The Crimean government said 83 percent of voters cast ballots -- most of them firmly convinced that a vote for Russia was a vote for a better life.
"We need to show solidarity with Ukraine and therefore Russia leaves us no choice," Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told reporters in Brussels before the vote. "The 'Anschluss' of Crimea cannot rest without a response from the international community."
He was referring to Nazi Germany's forceful annexation of Austria.
Moscow, meanwhile, called on Ukraine to become a federal state as a way of resolving the polarization between Ukraine's western regions - which favor closer ties with the 28-nation EU - and its eastern areas, which have long ties to Russia.
<figure class="gallery overlay-gallery">http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/06/8d425c75-8d77-4abd-83d5-748e52afb997/thumbnail/220x140/7baf6b044d36badfd4442537f291c209/001-ap184405040459.jpg<figcaption>50 Photos
Russia-Ukraine tensions Tense atmosphere grows in Ukraine after Russian military forces occupy Crimean peninsula
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/russia-ukraine-tensions-grow)
In a statement Monday, Russia's Foreign Ministry urged Ukraine's parliament to call a constitutional assembly that could draft a new constitution to make the country federal, handing more power to its regions. It also said country should adopt a "neutral political and military status," a demand reflecting Moscow's concern about the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO. Russia is also pushing for Russian to become Ukraine's state language.
In Kiev, Ukraine's new government dismissed Russia's proposal Monday as unacceptable, saying it "looks like an ultimatum."
The new government in Kiev emerged after pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych fled to Russia last month after three months of protests culminated in deadly clashes.
Ukraine's Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya visited NATO headquarters in Brussels to request technical equipment to deal with the secession of Crimea and the Russian incursion there.
NATO said in a statement the alliance was determined to boost its cooperation with Ukraine, including "increased ties with Ukraine's political and military leadership, strengthening efforts to build the capacity of the Ukrainian military" with more joint training.

Deshchytsya said he also talked with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen about sending monitors to Ukraine - a move that would certainly inflame Russia.





http://www.cbsnews.com/news/official-results-97-of-crimea-voters-back-joining-russia/
(https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)

[Drummond]

As to Crimea...
I would like to remind you about the Will of Crimean Republic population expressed during the referendum after the West financed, organized and conducted the Nazi coup in Kiev, February, 2014.

Crimea votes to leave Ukraine in secession referendum and join Russia


Crimea election chief reports 95% vote to secede, voter turnout exceeded 80%


https://on.rt.com/hvy91z

(https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)<header>CBS/AP March 17, 2014, 3:56 AM
Official results: 97 percent of Crimea voters back joining Russia

</header>

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Last Updated Mar 17, 2014 10:23 AM EDT

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine -- Ukraine's Crimean peninsula declared itself independent Monday after its residents voted overwhelmingly to secede (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/crimeans-vote-overwhelmingly-to-secede-from-ukraine-join-russia/) and join Russia, while the United States and the European Union slapped sanctions against some of those who promoted the divisive referendum.
Ukraine's political turmoil (http://www.cbsnews.com/ukraine-crisis/) has become Europe's most severe security crisis in years and tensions have been high since Russian troops seized control of Crimea two weeks ago. Large numbers of Russian troops are also massed near the border with Russian-speaking eastern Ukraine, which has sharp political differences with the country's new government in Kiev.
The U.S., EU and Ukraine's new government do not recognize the referendum held Sunday in Crimea (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-crisis-us-rejects-bogus-secession-vote-in-crimea-citing-russian-meddling/), saying it violates both Ukrainian and international norms. Moscow, however, considers the vote legitimate and Russian President Putin was to address both houses of parliament Tuesday on the Crimean situation.
<figure class="gallery overlay-video">http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/16/9f13bff1-0ee6-46e8-9d4b-9a1412a71252/thumbnail/220x140/cc0450039006775d08586747dddb50ca/sunmo-0316-brennan-640x360.jpg<figcaption>Play Video
World Despite international condemnation, Crimea holds referendum

Crimea's residents head to the polls to vote in a referendum that will determine whether Crimea will secede from the Ukraine and join Russia. As ...
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/despite-international-condemnation-crimea-holds-referendum)
The Crimean referendum could also encourage rising pro-Russian sentiment in Ukraine's east and lead to further divisions in this nation of 46 million. A delegation of Crimean lawmakers was traveling to Moscow on Monday for negotiations on how to proceed. Russian lawmakers have suggested that formally annexing Crimea is almost certain - with one saying it could happen within days.
Those living on the strategic Black Sea peninsula applauded the move, since it received over 97 percent backing from voters.
"We came back home to Mother Russia. We came back home, Russia is our home," said Nikolay Drozdenko, a resident in Sevastopol, the key Crimean port where Russia leases a naval base from Ukraine.
<figure class="image pull-none image-large ">http://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/13/365bf318-6e7e-4eca-bede-d9e38da0c977/resize/620x/3aa42e3c5af00b4527061f1c5fd5e57b/ukraine-v03-620x350.jpg<figcaption> CBS
</figcaption></figure>The Crimean parliament declared that all Ukrainian state property on the peninsula will be nationalized and become the property of the Crimean Republic. Lawmakers also asked the United Nations and other nations to recognize it and began work on setting up a central bank with $30 million in support from Russia. The United States announced sanctions (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-announces-sanctions-against-russian-officials/) against seven Russian officials, while the EU's foreign ministers slapped travel bans and asset freezes against 21 officials from Russia and Ukraine following Crimea referendum. The ministers did not immediately release the names and nationalities of those targeted by the sanctions.
While the diplomatic standoff between Moscow and the West -- with Ukraine in the middle -- heats up, CBS News correspondent Elizabeth Palmer reports that the Crimeans who voted to join Russia are now ever more convinced they're on their way.
<figure class="gallery overlay-video">http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/17/93752825-249b-4af3-8611-0398357aecc9/thumbnail/220x140/e7e774ab7bc3c5d941d2fdca953f33a2/en-0316-palmer-640x360.jpg<figcaption>Play Video
CBS Evening News Crimea referendum: overwhelming support for joining Russia

Exit polls from Sunday's referendum in Crimea show overwhelming support for separating from Ukraine and for joining the Russian Federation, but m...
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/crimea-referendum-overwhelming-support-for-joining-russia)
As soon as the tally was in, the party on the streets in the Crimean capital of Simferopol started. Palmer says Crimea's new prime minister said aloud what many in the crowd before him were feeling. "Dear friends," said Sergei Aksyonov to the crowd in Lenin Square, "we are going home, to Russia!"
Palmer says the voting on Sunday was orderly, and turnout was heavy. The Crimean government said 83 percent of voters cast ballots -- most of them firmly convinced that a vote for Russia was a vote for a better life.
"We need to show solidarity with Ukraine and therefore Russia leaves us no choice," Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski told reporters in Brussels before the vote. "The 'Anschluss' of Crimea cannot rest without a response from the international community."
He was referring to Nazi Germany's forceful annexation of Austria.
Moscow, meanwhile, called on Ukraine to become a federal state as a way of resolving the polarization between Ukraine's western regions - which favor closer ties with the 28-nation EU - and its eastern areas, which have long ties to Russia.
<figure class="gallery overlay-gallery">http://cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/03/06/8d425c75-8d77-4abd-83d5-748e52afb997/thumbnail/220x140/7baf6b044d36badfd4442537f291c209/001-ap184405040459.jpg<figcaption>50 Photos
Russia-Ukraine tensions

Tense atmosphere grows in Ukraine after Russian military forces occupy Crimean peninsula
</figcaption></figure> (http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/russia-ukraine-tensions-grow)
In a statement Monday, Russia's Foreign Ministry urged Ukraine's parliament to call a constitutional assembly that could draft a new constitution to make the country federal, handing more power to its regions. It also said country should adopt a "neutral political and military status," a demand reflecting Moscow's concern about the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO. Russia is also pushing for Russian to become Ukraine's state language.
In Kiev, Ukraine's new government dismissed Russia's proposal Monday as unacceptable, saying it "looks like an ultimatum."
The new government in Kiev emerged after pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych fled to Russia last month after three months of protests culminated in deadly clashes.
Ukraine's Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya visited NATO headquarters in Brussels to request technical equipment to deal with the secession of Crimea and the Russian incursion there.
NATO said in a statement the alliance was determined to boost its cooperation with Ukraine, including "increased ties with Ukraine's political and military leadership, strengthening efforts to build the capacity of the Ukrainian military" with more joint training.

Deshchytsya said he also talked with NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen about sending monitors to Ukraine - a move that would certainly inflame Russia.





http://www.cbsnews.com/news/official-results-97-of-crimea-voters-back-joining-russia/
(https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)

H'm. NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of Crimeans voted to have Russia annexe them ??

Ninety seven percent. It's just not credible. I believe I once read that Saddam Hussein, in one of his 'elections', also polled ninety seven percent of the 'vote' in Iraq. Was his a shining example of fair and free democracy in action ??

Besides which ... the Referendum was judged internationally as being both 'suspect' and ILLEGAL. But of course ... when you're involved in a Hitleresque territory-grab, as Putin was, you'll not allow yourself to be deflected by 'mere' world opinion, eh ??

In case you'll be interested (somehow I doubt it ?) .. this, from the United Nations ...

http://www.un.org/press/en/2014/ga11493.doc.htm


Today’s debate preceding the vote offered the first opportunity for the broader United Nations membership to air their view on the Crimea question. Many said the referendum had contravened international law, the United Nations Charter and Ukraine’s Constitution, emphasizing that they would neither recognize it nor the Russian Federation’s subsequent illegal annexation of Crimea.

Presenting the non-binding text was Ukraine’s Acting Minister for Foreign Affairs, who said that an integral part of his country had been forcibly annexed by a State that had previously committed itself to guaranteeing its independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity. The draft resolution broke no new legal or normative ground, but sent an essential message that the international community would not allow events in Crimea to set a precedent for further challenges to the rules-based international framework.

Supporting those remarks, Georgia’s representative said the situation in mainland Ukraine was reminiscent of the Russian Federation’s seizure of Georgia’s Abkhazia and Tskhinvali regions in 2008, pointing out that 20 per cent of his country’s territory remained under illegal Russian occupation.

The representative of the Republic of Moldova said the Crimea referendum was not legal because it contravened Ukraine’s Constitution as well as international law.

Ukraine is fighting for her continued independence ... and this with 'rebels' in the eastern part of the country, backed by (surprise, surprise) Russia. Backed as in, do Russia have troops there already ? Are they arming the 'rebels' ?

Perhaps Ukraine still remembers life under Stalin. If you can call it 'life', when a mass starvation programme wipes out SEVEN MILLION Ukrainian citizens !! Why, Balu, would anyone in their right mind in Ukraine want anything more to do with Russia than is absolutely necessary ??

[Noir]

As to Crimea...
I would like to remind you about the Will of Crimean Republic population expressed during the referendum after the West financed, organized and conducted the Nazi coup in Kiev, February, 2014.

Crimea votes to leave Ukraine in secession referendum and join Russia

Crimea election chief reports 95% vote to secede, voter turnout exceeded 80%
https://on.rt.com/hvy91z

(https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)<header>CBS/AP March 17, 2014, 3:56 AM
Official results: 97 percent of Crimea voters back joining Russia
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/official-results-97-of-crimea-voters-back-joining-russia/ (https://on.rt.com/hvy91z)</header>

You say I am a poor student of history, I say you are a poor student of the present.
If you honestly believe these numbers, then you must wonder why Russian military force was needed, for no force can stop what 97% of a population wants, no matter how good or ill the intentions.

[Balu]

You say I am a poor student of history, I say you are a poor student of the present.
If you honestly believe these numbers, then you must wonder why Russian military force was needed, for no force can stop what 97% of a population wants, no matter how good or ill the intentions.
Unfortunately, you were not only a poor student of History. You are a poor student of the Present as you can imaging that Russians made 80% eligible voters (800,000 !!!) to come to the polls and forced 97% of them voting for reunification with Russia under a rifle treat.
Then I remind you about one peculiar thing, a worth thing to think about and to compare with.
When the Nazi Germany with their allies: Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Romania, Finland, for which the whole economy of EU ver.1 worked, invaded the USSR, we started struggling against aggressor, suffering great losses. But there were over 20,000 of Ukrainian military personnel (more than Russians which were in Crimea according to intergovernmental agreement) at there barracks and units with all the armament and munition and there was no a SINGLE fight, a single victim or wounded, while Russia 'was occupying and annexing Crimea'. Think about it and try to answer the question "WHY?" :laugh:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-QItX3I5A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW8RCxbP920


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuvTIuIb4Sc

[Abbey Marie]

McCain still seems like a Democrat plant in the Republican party. Maybe more so than ever.

The timing of this, while the Dems are pushing the story that Trump is a sellout to Putin, is very interesting. However you feel about his message, McCain is back-stabbing Trump and the party.

[Gunny]

H'm. NINETY SEVEN PERCENT of Crimeans voted to have Russia annexe them ??

Ninety seven percent. It's just not credible. I believe I once read that Saddam Hussein, in one of his 'elections', also polled ninety seven percent of the 'vote' in Iraq. Was his a shining example of fair and free democracy in action ??

Besides which ... the Referendum was judged internationally as being both 'suspect' and ILLEGAL. But of course ... when you're involved in a Hitleresque territory-grab, as Putin was, you'll not allow yourself to be deflected by 'mere' world opinion, eh ??

In case you'll be interested (somehow I doubt it ?) .. this, from the United Nations ...

http://www.un.org/press/en/2014/ga11493.doc.htm



Ukraine is fighting for her continued independence ... and this with 'rebels' in the eastern part of the country, backed by (surprise, surprise) Russia. Backed as in, do Russia have troops there already ? Are they arming the 'rebels' ?

Perhaps Ukraine still remembers life under Stalin. If you can call it 'life', when a mass starvation programme wipes out SEVEN MILLION Ukrainian citizens !! Why, Balu, would anyone in their right mind in Ukraine want anything more to do with Russia than is absolutely necessary ??

This is a simple land grab for control of the Black Sea. While everyone thinks Putin is some kind of genius, he's really just a bully and his goals easily readable. He's grabbing real estate. No one is going to stop him. Frankly, no one is smart enough to see what he's doing. He's going after strategically vital areas.

[Balu]

McCain still seems like a Democrat plant in the Republican party. Maybe more so than ever.

The timing of this, while the Dems are pushing the story that Trump is a sell out to Putin, is very interesting. However you feel about his message, McCain is back-stabbing Trump and the party.
Me too. The creation of additional working places and enlarging a real sector of economy in the USA means to sell the USA interests to Russia. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif
It looks as if they smoke too much marijuana. :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

This is a simple land grab for control of the Black Sea. While everyone thinks Putin is some kind of genius, he's really just a bully and his goals easily readable. He's grabbing real estate. No one is going to stop him. Frankly, no one is smart enough to see what he's doing. He's going after strategically vital areas.
Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits?

[Gunny]

Me too. The creation of additional working places and enlarging a real sector of economy in the USA means to sell the USA interests to Russia. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/dntknw.gif
It looks as if they smoke too much marijuana. :laugh:

Keep talking. In case you missed our last election, the pot heads got voted out.

[Black Diamond]

Keep talking. In case you missed our last election, the pot heads got voted out.

Are you including Gary Johnson in that statement? :cool:

[Gunny]

Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits?

All you got do is look at a map. If he controls the Black Sea, he controls a LOT of oil. The reason Hitler invaded Russia. He's got a foothold in Syria, a gateway to the Middle East. A LOT more oil. He's after controlling resources.

While we do nothing when we have more.

[Balu]

Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits?
Or no! It is much cheaper to make a Black Sea a Lake. :laugh:
The next Putin glance will be directed to the Panama Canal. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

All you got do is look at a map. If he controls the Black Sea, he controls a LOT of oil. The reason Hitler invaded Russia. He's got a foothold in Syria, a gateway to the Middle East. A LOT more oil. He's after controlling resources.

While we do nothing when we have more.

Obama did nothing to discourage Putin. Now we haven't a thing to worry about, now Putin is a hero here and we'll be friends.

[Gunny]

Obama did nothing to discourage Putin. Now we haven't a thing to worry about, now Putin is a hero here and we'll be friends.

I'm going to play Jim here and wait on the cliff notes. Russia should have been stopped in 1945. Or the 1800s. No one's done it. In today's political climate? Not a happening event.

[Black Diamond]

I'm going to play Jim here and wait on the cliff notes. Russia should have been stopped in 1945. Or the 1800s. No one's done it. In today's political climate? Not a happening event.

You mean Obama isn't Patton? :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Obama did nothing to discourage Putin. Now we haven't a thing to worry about, now Putin is a hero here and we'll be friends.

I still think Hillary would have been far more dangerous than Trump on this issue.

[Balu]

The main NSA proof of Putin's interference into Elections 2016 in the USA. :laugh:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1Bh6kyXgAASTza.jpg