A little ticked off about this

[Trinity]

My boy's have been letting their hair grow out for several months now. I have always kept their hair very short until a few months back when they both told me they wanted it to grow out, not real long just about shoulder length. I said ok it's your hair no big deal. I then discovered when we went to get there football gear about 3 weeks ago this is apparently the new style with boys from the ages of 9 and up, not all but a lot of them are growing their hair out. My husband and I actually got a big kick out of it when they were trying on helmets because they all had long hair and everyone of them when the coach was trying to pull their helmets off they were yelling ow my hair.:laugh2:

Anyway this past weekend my boy's went to their father's for the weekend. He told them that if they got their haircut he would buy them some shoes. Both of my boys are wanting the heely shoes so he told them he was not going to buy them any shoes unless they got their hair cut. My 11 year old caved and got his hair cut, my 8 year old told him no I am not cutting my hair.

I was pissed when I found this out! Why would you withhold something from your child that is your obligation as a parent to provide because they did not want to cut their hair?

My theory is, it's their hair and as long as they keep it clean and nice looking I could care less if it's long or short. My ex forced my child to get his haircut and used the shoes as a weapon basically. The kicker he has not bought him the shoes yet. he claims he will get them in 2 weeks when they come back next time for the weekend.

My 11 year old is not very happy with his hair and he is now wishing he had not got it cut. I told him it will grow back and don't let your father pull another stunt like that on you again. I will buy you the shoes, you do not need to do something like that for him to buy you something.


Funny thing is when I met my ex he had long hair.

[Kathianne]

My boy's have been letting their hair grow out for several months now. I have always kept their hair very short until a few months back when they both told me they wanted it to grow out, not real long just about shoulder length. I said ok it's your hair no big deal. I then discovered when we went to get there football gear about 3 weeks ago this is apparently the new style with boys from the ages of 9 and up, not all but a lot of them are growing their hair out. My husband and I actually got a big kick out of it when they were trying on helmets because they all had long hair and everyone of them when the coach was trying to pull their helmets off they were yelling ow my hair.:laugh2:

Anyway this past weekend my boy's went to their father's for the weekend. He told them that if they got their haircut he would buy them some shoes. Both of my boys are wanting the heely shoes so he told them he was not going to buy them any shoes unless they got their hair cut. My 11 year old caved and got his hair cut, my 8 year old told him no I am not cutting my hair.

I was pissed when I found this out! Why would you withhold something from your child that is your obligation as a parent to provide because they did not want to cut their hair?

My theory is, it's their hair and as long as they keep it clean and nice looking I could care less if it's long or short. My ex forced my child to get his haircut and used the shoes as a weapon basically. The kicker he has not bought him the shoes yet. he claims he will get them in 2 weeks when they come back next time for the weekend.

My 11 year old is not very happy with his hair and he is now wishing he had not got it cut. I told him it will grow back and don't let your father pull another stunt like that on you again. I will buy you the shoes, you do not need to do something like that for him to buy you something.


Funny thing is when I met my ex he had long hair.

I can understand your anger towards your disagreement with parenting, under normal situation it's probably the hardest part of being divorced. Let me share something with you, as my sons were about 5 and 7, my daughter 9, when I started divorce proceedings and we separated, (it took nearly 4 years for my divorce, so we didn't have 'normal', be that as it may).

In the beginning, while aware of their father's problems with over discipline, power struggles with the kids, I thought it important that they have regular contact with him. I tried to stay out of complaints about his 'not listening' and such. Only when it came to issues that were directly harmful physically or mentally to the kids, would I step in. He managed within 6 months to have one of the psychiatrists treating my kids to testify that visitation should cease or at a minimum be supervised, until he could attend parenting classes and demonstrate some level of empathy and responsibility towards his children.

By the time my daughter was 12, she would no longer speak to her father or accept gifts from him. The boys however wanted contact, though the younger one no longer wanted over night visits. The doctor, lawyers, and judge all agreed with the differences, problem was, the still not ex didn't get it. He forced the younger one to stay, refusing to drive him home. Now this was a child already acting out, the court stopped the visitation for another 6 months, including my older son. During this time, he was supposed to undergo more parenting classes.

When that period of non-visits was over, my oldest son wanted to see his dad same as before, the youngest only wanted to visit if close to home-like meeting him at a park or restaurant, he wouldn't get in a car with him. It took nearly a year before he would do so again.

During all this time, my youngest was still under psychiatric care and the other children seeing a social worker. The court had appointed them an attorney ad litem. Yet, over and over again, their father's behavior kept causing more and more problems, which of course the kids kept telling me about. While more than once, I'd find myself trying to talk to my still not ex, about how he was hurting his relationship with the kids, it wasn't working. I made up my mind that regardless of my anger, I wasn't going to pit the kids against him. I'll admit that there were plenty of times that they could see my anger as they told me things, but I tried hard not to vent with them, rather told them to contact their attorney and talk to their doctors.

The kids were 9, 11, and 13 when the divorce was finally granted. The custody/visitation section of the decree was 3 pages long, there were many 'stipulations' involved because of the types of problems addressed above and the differences in religions/holidays, and mental health issues of the children and father. My daughter was excluded from visitation, until she chose to resume it, which didn't happen until she was 19.

Over the next few years, the courts had to step in and curtail then resume visitation, because of what the boys were doing at school or told their docs/attorney. For the most part, the visits kept up with the older son every other weekend, the younger during the daytime of those weekends. Mind you, I knew that had to be difficult for my ex, but by this time he did recognize that the youngest was not going to be bullied. It's weird was a kid can do.

Then came the youngest's graduation from 8th grade, strait A's, awards for soccer and track. His dad came and told him what a 'great accomplishment', he wanted to take him for a weekend vacation, just them. The youngest agreed and at the time, even my daughter thought maybe there was a real change. Her and I spoke about her resuming visitation over that weekend. I admit to being hopeful that I would finally get some weekends, alone. (Though that wasn't going to happen in any event, as my mom would break her hip a few weeks later, keeping my parents here.)

My youngest came back late on a Sunday afternoon crying, "I'm never going to see him again." Seems that they went to Wisconsin seeing concerts and such. One was my son's favorite group, he asked for the CD. His father bought it, but said 'he'd hold it.' Sunday morning they returned, not to my house, but to the father's. My son had wanted to come home, but his dad said, 'later.' He told my son that he had to cut the grass, if he wanted the CD. My son said it was a 'gift'. They managed, I guess to fight about it for hours, which anyone having dealt with an oppositional child knows that is not a good tactic. Eventually the son came home, sans CD. Would no longer talk to the father on phone, much less visit with him. Needless to say, we were back in court.

The next Christmas, my older son stole that CD from his father's home and brought it home with him. When I found out, I mailed it back. The oldest said his dad never mentioned that CD, which should tell me something, I just never knew what. As I said, my daughter chose at 19 to start visiting him again. My youngest son also resumed visiting him when he turned 18, though after his graduation-He didn't want a repeat.

After all of the above, all the help the kids had from docs/lawyers, even teachers, it still took so long for them to come to the maturity to recognize their dad was probably not going to change. They had to decide what was best for them. Seems they could cope as near adults. They have all said, except for my oldest son, that they were grateful that I respected them enough to let them 'handle' the situations, within limits.

I let them choose their fights, including getting their lawyer involved. Today they all have a relationship with their father, good? Not really, but something. I think if I had more often tried to intervene, that wouldn't be the case. If it were, who would they blame? Would they be as successful as they are? I don't know for sure. I do know they have all turned into great people at now 26, 24, and 22. They still have power problems with their dad, but realize they are only involved as much as they allow themselves to be.

I'm still waiting for a weekend alone. :laugh2:

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Blackmail is not a parenting skill.

Yer Ex is a fuckin' idiot who doesn't deserve children.

You can tell him I said that.

[Kathianne]

Blackmail is not a parenting skill.

Yer Ex is a fuckin' idiot who doesn't deserve children.

You can tell him I said that.

Notice my youngest is now 22? I haven't spoken to the fuktard ex in 4 years now, bliss!

[glockmail]

It looks like the ex screwed up again.

I don't think the shaggy hair thing is big deal at all. When I was that age mine was to my shoulders and now that most of it is gone I kinda miss it. Most of my son's friends have had gone from super long to super short and back again.

The ex failed on two issues here:

1. Pick your battles. His goal appears to be clean cut looking boys, which is admirable. He should draw the line at permanent things like tats and piecings. Long hair is hardly permanent, and it gives the boys the feeling of freedom or rebellion that they need. Me I tell my kids that if they cross that line they will wake up post-op, sans objects and ink, and less money in their savings account.

2. Poor choice of punishment/ reward. Per your analysis. Rewards have to be relative luxuries, and punishment has to be realistic.

[Kathianne]

It looks like the ex screwed up again.

I don't think the shaggy hair thing is big deal at all. When I was that age mine was to my shoulders and now that most of it is gone I kinda miss it. Most of my son's friends have had gone from super long to super short and back again.

The ex failed on two issues here:

1. Pick your battles. His goal appears to be clean cut looking boys, which is admirable. He should draw the line at permanent things like tats and piecings. Long hair is hardly permanent, and it gives the boys the feeling of freedom or rebellion that they need. Me I tell my kids that if they cross that line they will wake up post-op, sans objects and ink, and less money in their savings account.

2. Poor choice of punishment/ reward. Per your analysis. Rewards have to be relative luxuries, and punishment has to be realistic.
I think perhaps the worst thing about divorce under even good circumstances is that it's very difficult for the 'other' parent to discipline. True even when the parents agree on issues. If you only have your children for limited amounts of time and spend that time over issues such as hair, grades, etc., it's pretty hard to get 'quality family time' especially during adolescence.

To me, barring mental or physical cruelty, divorce should be avoided.

[Hagbard Celine]

Eh, this was my dad's parenting style all through growing up. You've got to give something if you want to get something in return--isn't that how the world works anyway? "Cut yer damn hair" is supposed to be the parental war call anyway, so I wouldn't put much more thought into this. Look at it this way: Your kid is now clean cut and has a respectable appearance instead of looking like one of the Monkees *and* unless your ex is a mean-ol' promise-breaker dad, he'll be getting some new sneakers out of the deal to boot.

Life's too short to battle with someone over a haircut and take it from a kid who grew up with divorced parents: it'll be better for your kids if you have atleast an amicable relationship with your ex. My Mom won't even talk to my Dad, so where does that leave me and my siblings at graduations, holidays and the like? We end up being diplomats, passing messages between parents, choosing who we will spend which holiday with and having to listen to long rant sessions (mainly from my mom :rolleyes:) Just try to have a sense of humor about it--it's just a haircut. That's my opinion anyway.

[Abbey Marie]

Eh, this was my dad's parenting style all through growing up. "Cut yer damn hair" is supposed to be the parental war call anyway, so I wouldn't put much more thought into this. Look at it this way: Your kid is now clean cut and has a respectable appearance instead of looking like one of the Monkees *and* unless your ex is a mean-ol' promise-breaker dad, he'll be getting some new sneakers out of the deal to boot.

Life's too short to battle with someone over a haircut. That's my opinion anyway.

Well said. You really do have to pick your battles in life. Especially when it comes to kids, whose tastes tend to change like the wind.

[dan]

Man, I wanted long hair from the time I was about 12 until I was about 21 or 22, when I finally grew it out and realized what a pain in the ass it was.

Point is, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for your husband to reward the kids for getting a haircut. I never got a pair of shoes out of getting my hair cut.

On a sidenote, I heard that those heelie shoes are pretty dangerous, lots of kids are hurting themselves on them. Make sure your son's safe.

[Trinity]

I can understand your anger towards your disagreement with parenting, under normal situation it's probably the hardest part of being divorced. Let me share something with you, as my sons were about 5 and 7, my daughter 9, when I started divorce proceedings and we separated, (it took nearly 4 years for my divorce, so we didn't have 'normal', be that as it may).

In the beginning, while aware of their father's problems with over discipline, power struggles with the kids, I thought it important that they have regular contact with him. I tried to stay out of complaints about his 'not listening' and such. Only when it came to issues that were directly harmful physically or mentally to the kids, would I step in. He managed within 6 months to have one of the psychiatrists treating my kids to testify that visitation should cease or at a minimum be supervised, until he could attend parenting classes and demonstrate some level of empathy and responsibility towards his children.

By the time my daughter was 12, she would no longer speak to her father or accept gifts from him. The boys however wanted contact, though the younger one no longer wanted over night visits. The doctor, lawyers, and judge all agreed with the differences, problem was, the still not ex didn't get it. He forced the younger one to stay, refusing to drive him home. Now this was a child already acting out, the court stopped the visitation for another 6 months, including my older son. During this time, he was supposed to undergo more parenting classes.

When that period of non-visits was over, my oldest son wanted to see his dad same as before, the youngest only wanted to visit if close to home-like meeting him at a park or restaurant, he wouldn't get in a car with him. It took nearly a year before he would do so again.

During all this time, my youngest was still under psychiatric care and the other children seeing a social worker. The court had appointed them an attorney ad litem. Yet, over and over again, their father's behavior kept causing more and more problems, which of course the kids kept telling me about. While more than once, I'd find myself trying to talk to my still not ex, about how he was hurting his relationship with the kids, it wasn't working. I made up my mind that regardless of my anger, I wasn't going to pit the kids against him. I'll admit that there were plenty of times that they could see my anger as they told me things, but I tried hard not to vent with them, rather told them to contact their attorney and talk to their doctors.

The kids were 9, 11, and 13 when the divorce was finally granted. The custody/visitation section of the decree was 3 pages long, there were many 'stipulations' involved because of the types of problems addressed above and the differences in religions/holidays, and mental health issues of the children and father. My daughter was excluded from visitation, until she chose to resume it, which didn't happen until she was 19.

Over the next few years, the courts had to step in and curtail then resume visitation, because of what the boys were doing at school or told their docs/attorney. For the most part, the visits kept up with the older son every other weekend, the younger during the daytime of those weekends. Mind you, I knew that had to be difficult for my ex, but by this time he did recognize that the youngest was not going to be bullied. It's weird was a kid can do.

Then came the youngest's graduation from 8th grade, strait A's, awards for soccer and track. His dad came and told him what a 'great accomplishment', he wanted to take him for a weekend vacation, just them. The youngest agreed and at the time, even my daughter thought maybe there was a real change. Her and I spoke about her resuming visitation over that weekend. I admit to being hopeful that I would finally get some weekends, alone. (Though that wasn't going to happen in any event, as my mom would break her hip a few weeks later, keeping my parents here.)

My youngest came back late on a Sunday afternoon crying, "I'm never going to see him again." Seems that they went to Wisconsin seeing concerts and such. One was my son's favorite group, he asked for the CD. His father bought it, but said 'he'd hold it.' Sunday morning they returned, not to my house, but to the father's. My son had wanted to come home, but his dad said, 'later.' He told my son that he had to cut the grass, if he wanted the CD. My son said it was a 'gift'. They managed, I guess to fight about it for hours, which anyone having dealt with an oppositional child knows that is not a good tactic. Eventually the son came home, sans CD. Would no longer talk to the father on phone, much less visit with him. Needless to say, we were back in court.

The next Christmas, my older son stole that CD from his father's home and brought it home with him. When I found out, I mailed it back. The oldest said his dad never mentioned that CD, which should tell me something, I just never knew what. As I said, my daughter chose at 19 to start visiting him again. My youngest son also resumed visiting him when he turned 18, though after his graduation-He didn't want a repeat.

After all of the above, all the help the kids had from docs/lawyers, even teachers, it still took so long for them to come to the maturity to recognize their dad was probably not going to change. They had to decide what was best for them. Seems they could cope as near adults. They have all said, except for my oldest son, that they were grateful that I respected them enough to let them 'handle' the situations, within limits.

I let them choose their fights, including getting their lawyer involved. Today they all have a relationship with their father, good? Not really, but something. I think if I had more often tried to intervene, that wouldn't be the case. If it were, who would they blame? Would they be as successful as they are? I don't know for sure. I do know they have all turned into great people at now 26, 24, and 22. They still have power problems with their dad, but realize they are only involved as much as they allow themselves to be.

I'm still waiting for a weekend alone. :laugh2:

Kathianne I'm sure if you think back a few years ago you will recall all the drama that was going on in my life at that point in time with my ex. I believe we discussed some of those issues in a PM.:coffee:

I do try to refrain from making comments about their father or putting him down to them. My oldest has told me on numerous occasions what an idiot his father is of course I just bite my tongue because I want them to realize what an idiot he is without my input.

My youngest loves his father but can't stand him, and he is ODD and ADHD so yeah I can relate with trying to bully and ODD child, not going to happen!

However my ex refuses to admit that the youngest is ODD and ADHD according to him he is just hyper like he was when he was a child, except in my opinion my ex is Bi-Polar and ADHD. I have done enough research on ADHD, ODD, ADD, and Bi Polar to realize what is going on with him.

[nevadamedic]

Man, I wanted long hair from the time I was about 12 until I was about 21 or 22, when I finally grew it out and realized what a pain in the ass it was.

Point is, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for your husband to reward the kids for getting a haircut. I never got a pair of shoes out of getting my hair cut.

On a sidenote, I heard that those heelie shoes are pretty dangerous, lots of kids are hurting themselves on them. Make sure your son's safe.

My niece got really hurt on them. I wouldn't ever get my daughter a pair of them, no matter how big of a fit she throws.

[Trinity]

I think perhaps the worst thing about divorce under even good circumstances is that it's very difficult for the 'other' parent to discipline. True even when the parents agree on issues. If you only have your children for limited amounts of time and spend that time over issues such as hair, grades, etc., it's pretty hard to get 'quality family time' especially during adolescence.

To me, barring mental or physical cruelty, divorce should be avoided.

The thing with my ex, his quality family time is actually taking the boy's to do something once every couple of months, other then that when they are over there they tell me he sits and plays delta force on the computer all day and they play with the neighbors and his girlfriends kids.

[Trinity]

Eh, this was my dad's parenting style all through growing up. You've got to give something if you want to get something in return--isn't that how the world works anyway? "Cut yer damn hair" is supposed to be the parental war call anyway, so I wouldn't put much more thought into this. Look at it this way: Your kid is now clean cut and has a respectable appearance instead of looking like one of the Monkees *and* unless your ex is a mean-ol' promise-breaker dad, he'll be getting some new sneakers out of the deal to boot.

Life's too short to battle with someone over a haircut and take it from a kid who grew up with divorced parents: it'll be better for your kids if you have atleast an amicable relationship with your ex. My Mom won't even talk to my Dad, so where does that leave me and my siblings at graduations, holidays and the like? We end up being diplomats, passing messages between parents, choosing who we will spend which holiday with and having to listen to long rant sessions (mainly from my mom :rolleyes:) Just try to have a sense of humor about it--it's just a haircut. That's my opinion anyway.

That's the issue though, he has a tendency to break most of his promises. He has been telling them he is going to take them to the Skate park for 2 months now guess who finally took them, me and my husband.

[Trinity]

My niece got really hurt on them. I wouldn't ever get my daughter a pair of them, no matter how big of a fit she throws.

yeah I have done some research on them and I am not real thrilled with them either.

First if they get them and they have the wheels in they must wear a helmet at all times.

second knowing how there father is he probably won't buy them anyway, he'll end up buying them regular tennis shoes, if he buys any at all.

[Kathianne]

The thing with my ex, his quality family time is actually taking the boy's to do something once every couple of months, other then that when they are over there they tell me he sits and plays delta force on the computer all day and they play with the neighbors and his girlfriends kids.

That is what I was trying to say. As a mom, (or dad in similar situation), your heart bleeds for the kids and anger at ex escalates. I pray that yours isn't nutty like mine was. In spite of his being a bad father, the kids eventually want some sort of relation with him. I'm glad that on top of trying to be mom, disciplinarian, and trying to find good role models for the boys, I didn't fall into the trap of my trying to change him. Mine was nutty, still is, with two new little boys. I couldn't change his behavior after 14 years of marriage and 3 kids, with all the counseling we got prior to my filing and his seeing shrinks for the last 3 years on his own.

Funny thing, the kids will see the situations for what they are, eventually. I can't tell you how many times I had to deal with their tears and rages. Not fair, but that is why I had custody. The hair thing is no big deal and undermining him will probably not work in your favor, just escalate the problems you are already dealing with. Not too mention, your son made a choice, not a great one, but choose he did. He should learn something by that, no?

[Trinity]

That is what I was trying to say. As a mom, (or dad in similar situation), your heart bleeds for the kids and anger at ex escalates. I pray that yours isn't nutty like mine was. In spite of his being a bad father, the kids eventually want some sort of relation with him. I'm glad that on top of trying to be mom, disciplinarian, and trying to find good role models for the boys, I didn't fall into the trap of my trying to change him. Mine was nutty, still is, with two new little boys. I couldn't change his behavior after 14 years of marriage and 3 kids, with all the counseling we got prior to my filing and his seeing shrinks for the last 3 years on his own.

Funny thing, the kids will see the situations for what they are, eventually. I can't tell you how many times I had to deal with their tears and rages. Not fair, but that is why I had custody. The hair thing is no big deal and undermining him will probably not work in your favor, just escalate the problems you are already dealing with. Not too mention, your son made a choice, not a great one, but choose he did. He should learn something by that, no?

Yeah I told him his hair would grow back out, he's like I know mom it's ok I will just let it grow back out again.

I think I am more pissed off about it then he is..... probably because I had said something to my ex when he commented about their hair a month ago. I told him they wanted to let their hair grow out that was the style, and all the other boy's their age were letting their hair grow out as well, and I didn't mind it's their hair.

[Kathianne]

Yeah I told him his hair would grow back out, he's like I know mom it's ok I will just let it grow back out again.

I think I am more pissed off about it then he is..... probably because I had said something to my ex when he commented about their hair a month ago. I told him they wanted to let their hair grow out that was the style, and all the other boy's their age were letting their hair grow out as well, and I didn't mind it's their hair.

It's not easy, for sure. Perhaps it helps though to figure the ex would still have tried to pull the power play if you were still married. Maybe you would have stepped in, maybe not. I do think this relatively minor incident though, is a learning experience for your boys. Sometimes that may be the best thing. What's interesting to me personally, is that like in my case, the younger son was more challenging of my ex's personality, the older one 'tried to get along.' His response to some much more serious problems, even telling the judge, 'He's my dad, that's the way he is...' He never could understand when visitations were stopped or monitored.

[Trinity]

wow talk about a walk down memory lane!


I just hopped over to the USMB to see if i could find any old threads from when all the drama was going on with my ex and look what I found....... long reading but hey if your bored it will give you some info. of my dealings with my ex before he was my ex.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=11130

http://www.usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=11336