Let The Oil Companies Drill

[red states rule]

The simple way to lower gas prices is to let the oil companies do what they do best: find, drill, and refine oil

It is not rocket science folks


Just Drill, Baby
Congress's energy policies would hinder America's economy.

BY PETE DU PONT
Monday, July 30, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

America's domestic oil production is declining, importation of oil is rising, and gasoline is more expensive. The government's Energy Information Administration reports that U.S. crude oil field production declined to 1.9 billion barrels in 2005 from 3.5 billion in 1970, and the share of our oil that is imported has increased to 60% from 27% in 1985. The price of gasoline has risen to $3.02 this month from $2 in today's dollars in 1985.

Washington politicians will tell you this is an "energy crisis," but America's energy challenges are far more political than substantive.

First, we are not running out of oil. In 1920 it was estimated that the world supply of oil was 60 billion barrels. By 1950 it was up to 600 billion, and by 1990 to two trillion. In 2000 the world supply of oil was estimated to be three trillion barrels.

The U.S. has substantial supplies of oil and gas that could be accessed if lawmakers would allow it, but they frequently don't. A National Petroleum Council study released last week reports that 40 billion barrels of America's "recoverable oil reserves are off limits or are subject to significant lease restrictions"--half inshore and half offshore--and similar restrictions apply to more than 250 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. (We consume about 22 trillion cubic feet a year.)

Access to the 10 billion barrels of oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Reserve has been prohibited for decades. Some 85 billion barrels of recoverable oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas exist on the Outer Continental Shelf, but a month ago the House again, as it did last year, voted down an amendment that would have allowed the expansion of coastal drilling for oil and natural gas. All of which leaves the U.S. as the only nation in the world that has forbidden access to significant sources of domestic energy supplies.

Then the Senate voted in June to mandate a reduction in projected future oil usage of 10 million barrels a day, or 35%, which, since our domestic oil production is declining, means less imports. In other words, Congress wants to block drilling for more American oil while at the same time blocking the importation of oil--not a rational energy policy.

On the other side of the coin is the need for more refineries to produce the oil products we need: gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel and plastics. Twenty-five years ago we had 254 oil refineries; today there are just 145 (although they are a bit more productive) since we haven't built a new refinery in America for 30 years.

Then there is nuclear power, America's largest pollution-free source of energy. One hundred four nuclear plants supply about 20% of our electricity, and we could build many more. As President Bush pointed out two weeks ago, "Our country has not ordered a new nuclear power plant since the 1970s." He recommends that we build three new nuclear plants a year to meet our energy needs. But new nuclear plants have been continually opposed by the liberal establishment that now controls Congress.

Finally, there is coal, the second-largest supplier of world energy after oil. At current consumption levels, America has more than a 100-year supply of it, but mining is difficult and burning it emits significant carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Proposed controls and fees on carbon dioxide emissions are already significantly reducing the use of coal. Last week The Wall Street Journal reported that two dozen of the 150 new coal-fired electrical plants planned to be built have recently been cancelled.

Oil, natural gas and nuclear power are the indispensable energy resources to insure the prosperity of America's economy. But that is not what the congressional leadership thinks. So if we mustn't drill offshore for oil or natural gas, or build nuclear power plants, what is the politically correct action Congress intends to take?
Increasing ethanol subsidies for farmers is at the top of the list. Ethanol is a politically hot energy substance produced from crops like corn, soybeans, sunflowers and switch grass. Current law requires 7.5 billion gallons to be produced by 2012; the new Senate bill would increase that to 36 billion by 2022.

But ethanol is not a good gasoline substitute. It takes some seven gallons of oil to produce eight gallons of corn-based ethanol--diesel fuel for the tractors to plant and harvest the corn, pesticides to protect it, and fuel for trucks to transport the ethanol around the country. So there is not much energy gain, nor with all the gasoline involved does it help with global warming by reducing carbon dioxide emissions. And ethanol yields one-third less energy per gallon than gasoline, so that mileage per gallon of ethanol-blended auto fuel is less than gasoline mileage.

Ethanol is a politically popular subsidized product. Producers get a 51-cent-a-gallon subsidy and are protected from international ethanol imports by a 2.5% tariff and an ethanol import duty of 54 cents a gallon. These subsidies have brought more than 100 American ethanol refineries into operation, and another six dozen are going to be built, which has nearly doubled the price of corn, raised the cost of beef and other corn-fed livestock, and increased the cost of milk and corn syrup for soft-drink manufacturers.

Then there are all the other energy ideas Congress wishes to adopt--better energy efficiency for washers, driers, boilers, motors and refrigerators; greater fuel efficiency for cars; and more use of wind, solar and geothermal power generation. Good ideas all--especially more fuel-efficient automobiles--but not substantively or immediately very helpful in meeting the challenge of increasing America's energy supplies to keep our economy, jobs and prosperity increasing.
To do that we must build many more nuclear power plants and increase our drilling for oil and gas. The NPC report says it takes 15 to 20 years from exploration until production begins, and it costs $3 billion to build an average 120,000-barrel-a-day oil refinery. That is just the opposite of the current congressional policy of reducing oil use, blocking access to existing domestic oil reserves, not increasing nuclear power generation, and touting ethanol as another subsidy for farmers.

Mr. du Pont, a former governor of Delaware, is chairman of the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis. His column appears once a month.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110010391

[PostmodernProphet]

The thing that worries me is that increasing the supply of oil merely extends the problem into the near future...

I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents to a dollar, from $1.50 to $2, from $2 to $3....

I don't want to be sitting here debating what to do about the high cost of oil when it goes from $5 to $6.....

I want a push for replenishable fuels now, so our dependance on oil is over with....I want fuels that can be distilled in every state, in every county, out of whatever is locally surplus...

that isn't going to happen as long as gas prices dip down into some 'comfort' range every two or three months.....

bite the bullet, add a dollar a gallon tax on gas now so the public DEMANDS alternative fuels.......

[red states rule]

The thing that worries me is that increasing the supply of oil merely extends the problem into the near future...

I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents to a dollar, from $1.50 to $2, from $2 to $3....

I don't want to be sitting here debating what to do about the high cost of oil when it goes from $5 to $6.....

I want a push for replenishable fuels now, so our dependance on oil is over with....I want fuels that can be distilled in every state, in every county, out of whatever is locally surplus...

that isn't going to happen as long as gas prices dip down into some 'comfort' range every two or three months.....

bite the bullet, add a dollar a gallon tax on gas now so the public DEMANDS alternative fuels.......

So raise the gax tax

Right now the government makes 4 to 6 times the money off a gallon of gas as the oil companies make in profit

Tax add an average of 50 to 60 in taxes to a gallon of gas

Oil companies make 10 cents a gallon in profit of the same gallon

Libs rant how oil companies are gouging people - but are silent over the already high taxes on a gallon of gas

[gabosaurus]

Great entertainment value

[LiberalNation]

Even with them drilling, getting all that set up takes time. It would be years before you would see any effect on gas prices.

But even so I'm all for letting them drill.

[red states rule]

Even with them drilling, getting all that set up takes time. It would be years before you would see any effect on gas prices.

But even so I'm all for letting them drill.

In 2000 when pres Bush wanted to start drilling Alasks, libs blocked it and said it would take years to see any results

It is now 2007 - do ya think we would start seeing results by now?

[red states rule]

Great entertainment value

Na, your posts dd not have any value at all

Except proving how little libs can contribute to the debate

[PostmodernProphet]

Right now the government makes 4 to 6 times the money off a gallon of gas as the oil companies make in profit


yep, they do....and when oil is $120 a barrel the government will still be making 4-6 times the money.....they will probably eventually tax ethanol and make 4-6 times the money on that.....and we can complain about that, like we do now.....

but that is a different issue......the issue we ought to be concerned about RIGHT NOW, is that our economy lives on foriegn oil.....oil controlled by folks who I wouldn't trust to manipulate that oil.....the oil in ANWAR isn't enough to offset Chavez cutting off the Venezuelan supply.....and I don't want a repeat of what happened under Carter.....

so bitch about taxes on gasoline all you want, I bitch about them too.....but unless we do something to eliminate our dependance on foriegn oil we are screwed....and you won't do something about it until the consumer wants to do something about it.....and the consumer won't want to do something about it until it costs them more money......

[red states rule]

yep, they do....and when oil is $120 a barrel the government will still be making 4-6 times the money.....they will probably eventually tax ethanol and make 4-6 times the money on that.....and we can complain about that, like we do now.....

but that is a different issue......the issue we ought to be concerned about RIGHT NOW, is that our economy lives on foriegn oil.....oil controlled by folks who I wouldn't trust to manipulate that oil.....the oil in ANWAR isn't enough to offset Chavez cutting off the Venezuelan supply.....and I don't want a repeat of what happened under Carter.....

so bitch about taxes on gasoline all you want, I bitch about them too.....but unless we do something to eliminate our dependance on foriegn oil we are screwed....and you won't do something about it until the consumer wants to do something about it.....and the consumer won't want to do something about it until it costs them more money......

Nope. even at higher oil prices, the profit is the same. Ten cents a gallon on average

The oil companies are finding more and more oil - yet the enviro wackos say don't go get it

Libs babble on how it is not enough or it would take to long. Libs are not happy unless they are bitching about something

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/06/business/worldbusiness/06oil.html?ex=1315195200&en=aedad2b99f228e40&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc

[PostmodernProphet]

I would like to see something on the scale of Kennedy's drive to put a man on the moon, or maybe even the post Pearl Harbor effort to retool American industry for the war effort....directed at making the US energy self-sufficient....

[red states rule]

I would like to see something on the scale of Kennedy's drive to put a man on the moon, or maybe even the post Pearl Harbor effort to retool American industry for the war effort....directed at making the US energy self-sufficient....

We can do it. Tell the enviro wackos to shut up and let the oil companies do their job

Pump the oil, build/expand refineries, build new nuke power plants, and the price on energy will drop

[red states rule]

Oil Company Profits

The Investment U e-Letter: Issue # 653
March 23, 2007

Oil Company Profits: Just Who Is Gouging Whom?
by Alexander Green, Investment Director, The Oxford Club


The new speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, calls oil company profits "obscene."

And at first blush, many would agree. Over the past 12 months, for example, ExxonMobil has made pre-tax profits of $164 billion on sales of $369.5 billion. That's a lot.

But are big oil company profits bad?

Hardly. Companies exist to maximize profits. Profits are what keep workers employed. They keep companies innovating, creating new products and services. They keep the economy humming and the country strong. And they allow you and I to invest and secure our financial future.

Even the school teacher who plunks some of her retirement account in an S&P 500 Index fund benefits from Exxon's rising share price - which is a direct result of Exxon's rising profits.

Many will argue that there is nothing wrong with an oil company's profits, per se. It's just that Exxon is gouging us at the pump. They're making too much.

But are they? After all, Exxon can't dictate gasoline prices. Markets determine the price of oil. It's supply and demand that sets the price at the pump.

Oil Companies, Profits, and the Courts

Some Americans are skeptical on this point, I know. So I direct them to last year's Supreme Court decision. The court ruled unanimously that oil companies have not been colluding to set prices.

Oil prices are high today because the economies of huge nations like China and India are developing rapidly. More oil is being demanded in the world market and there are few new sources of supply.

Hurricane Katrina destroyed a lot of oil processing capacity around the Gulf of Mexico too, so there has been less oil being processed. When less oil is supplied, gasoline prices rise.

What does the average oil company make today on the sale of a gallon of gas? Ten cents.

The federal tax on gasoline, on the other hand, is nearly twice that. Then there's state gasoline taxes. (If you live in New York, for example, you're paying 68 cents a gallon in taxes.)

If Exxon is gouging us at ten cents a gallon, what exactly is the federal government doing to us at 18.4 cents a gallon?

Who Is Gouging Whom?

After all, Exxon has to compete with other oil companies both here and abroad. It has to spend billions on exploration, billions more on development, and further billions on refining and transportation.

As a result, it's hardly making money hand over fist. Earnings at Exxon rose 9% last year but fell 4% in the fourth quarter, underscoring the challenges of rising costs and lower commodity prices.

And Exxon's profit margins are only 10.7%. Profit margins at Microsoft, on the other hand, are 26%. Perhaps we should pass a windfall profits tax on software companies.

Because that's what Big Oil's opponents really want: a bigger federal gasoline tax. Why? To fund the search for alternative sources of energy, such as ethanol and nanotechnology.

That's a fine sentiment. But will throwing around tens of billions of dollars in federal research grants really create alternative energy sources? If that were the case, shouldn't Uncle Sam give grants to:

Dell… to create more powerful computers?
Boeing… to build faster aircraft?
McDonalds… to make low-fat French fries that taste good?
The federal government doesn't need to do this, of course. These oil companies will continue to make higher quality products at better prices on their own. Why? Because they exist to maximize profits. (Profits, incidentally, that provide much of the tax base for the U.S. government.)

Trust me, we will have alternative energy sources eventually. Many scientists believe that near incredible advances in nanotechnology will allow us to solve all our energy needs with solar power within 20 years.

But it won't be the federal government that solves the problem. It will be the private sector - and its relentless drive for profits.

Good Investing,

Alex

http://www.investmentu.com/IUEL/2007/20070323.html

[PostmodernProphet]

The oil companies are finding more and more oil

but don't you get it?.....finding more oil, pumping more oil, refining more oil....it just doesn't matter.....

how much do you think oil is going to cost when there are two cars in every garage in China?....when India reaches the point where it's citizens live a life style the equal of ours?....

you could discover that the moon is made of oil and there is a pipeline that drops down to Houston and it wouldn't matter, we would simply find a way to use it all up......

[red states rule]

but don't you get it?.....finding more oil, pumping more oil, refining more oil....it just doesn't matter.....

how much do you think oil is going to cost when there are two cars in every garage in China?....when India reaches the point where it's citizens live a life style the equal of ours?....

you could discover that the moon is made of oil and there is a pipeline that drops down to Houston and it wouldn't matter, we would simply find a way to use it all up......

Are you serious? I have been hearing how we are "running out of oil" for decades

Why are libs so opposed to growing our economy and getting our own energy?

[PostmodernProphet]

let the oil companies do their job

??...uh, Red?....the oil companies job is to make as much money off us as possible.....do you really think they are going to build us a nuclear plant?.....or an ethanol plant?.....or even build a refinery, if it means the price of fuel is going to go DOWN.......

[KarlMarx]

I would like to see something on the scale of Kennedy's drive to put a man on the moon, or maybe even the post Pearl Harbor effort to retool American industry for the war effort....directed at making the US energy self-sufficient....

I think that, if the government got involved in this effort of making our country energy self-sufficient, we'd have nothing to show for it after several years but study groups, more government bureaucracy and higher prices at the pump.

Our country took a step in the direction towards energy self-sufficiency in the 1970s when the price of oil skyrocketed and people began switching to more fuel efficient cars, insulating their homes, etc.

The best thing to get us energy self sufficient is to allow the market to do its job and keep government out of it.

[red states rule]

??...uh, Red?....the oil companies job is to make as much money off us as possible.....do you really think they are going to build us a nuclear plant?.....or an ethanol plant?.....or even build a refinery, if it means the price of fuel is going to go DOWN.......

Let the nuke industry build them. Lets start using coal

Whatever we have - we should be using

What a shocker - a corporation out to make a profit. 10 cents a gallon profit is not much for what they have to do to earn that 10 cents

[PostmodernProphet]

Why are libs so opposed to growing our economy and getting our own energy?

because they are idiots, but that doesn't mean we have to be idiots as well.....I am not an environmentalist whacko.....you can pump ANWAR dry and kill every moose within a hundred miles it and it wouldn't bother me.....I am a conservative pro-business whacko....and the oil companies are not the only businesses out there....99% of the businesses in this country do NOT profit from oil and are equally the victims of our current oil policy...I want ten thousand companies in this country producing energy through ethanol production or any other kind of production you can imagine or not yet imagine, not three companies producing energy from oil production....

[red states rule]

because they are idiots, but that doesn't mean we have to be idiots as well.....I am not an environmentalist whacko.....you can pump ANWAR dry and kill every moose within a hundred miles it and it wouldn't bother me.....I am a conservative pro-business whacko....and the oil companies are not the only businesses out there....99% of the businesses in this country do NOT profit from oil and are equally the victims of our current oil policy...I want ten thousand companies in this country producing energy through ethanol production or any other kind of production you can imagine or not yet imagine, not three companies producing energy from oil production....

When you lower the cost of energy, all prices will go down as well. It is a huge cost of doing business, and when you lower the cost of doing business - it is good for all of us

[PostmodernProphet]

I think that, if the government got involved in this effort of making our country energy self-sufficient, we'd have nothing to show for it after several years but study groups, more government bureaucracy and higher prices at the pump.

Our country took a step in the direction towards energy self-sufficiency in the 1970s when the price of oil skyrocketed and people began switching to more fuel efficient cars, insulating their homes, etc.

The best thing to get us energy self sufficient is to allow the market to do its job and keep government out of it.

They took stupid steps....they thought you could solve the problem by 'conservation'....all that did was delay the problem.....we are more efficient, oil is actually cheaper than it was in 1981 when adjusted for inflation, but we consume more oil by multiple factors because it is cheap.....you need to solve the problem through production, and the reality is, that production is not going to be local if you limit it to petroleum....

I grew up on a farm in Iowa....two years ago they build an ethanol plant about five miles from where I grew up....another plant is being planned about ten miles in the other direction....if we made a committment to E85 or even 100% ethanol we could be energy self-sufficient in less than ten years simply through the market doing it's job.....if the government made a 'space race' type program out of it you could do it in half that....do we have that much time before Chavez decides he wants to dictate his policies to us?

[red states rule]

They took stupid steps....they thought you could solve the problem by 'conservation'....all that did was delay the problem.....we are more efficient, oil is actually cheaper than it was in 1981 when adjusted for inflation, but we consume more oil by multiple factors because it is cheap.....you need to solve the problem through production, and the reality is, that production is not going to be local if you limit it to petroleum....

I grew up on a farm in Iowa....two years ago they build an ethanol plant about five miles from where I grew up....another plant is being planned about ten miles in the other direction....if we made a committment to E85 or even 100% ethanol we could be energy self-sufficient in less than ten years simply through the market doing it's job.....if the government made a 'space race' type program out of it you could do it in half that....do we have that much time before Chavez decides he wants to dictate his policies to us?

We use more oil because we are the worlds economic and military superpower

We have alot of oil, and coal we should be using them. Lets start building the nuke power plants as well

[PostmodernProphet]

When you lower the cost of energy, all prices will go down as well. It is a huge cost of doing business, and when you lower the cost of doing business - it is good for all of us

Bingo.....but if you think the oil companies are going to cut the cost of energy, even if they can pump every drop of oil they can get their hands on, then you are smokin' some liberal, ivy-tower weed.......

[red states rule]

Speaking of coal


Rejecting Coal Will Cost Us Big
Published June 8 in the weekly print edition of The Union
Published: June 8, 2007
ast year the Legislature passed and Gov. Schwarzenegger signed into law state Sen. President Pro Tem Don Perata’s, D-Oakland, AB 32, the “Global Warming Solutions Act.” This law is now denying California power consumers access to coal, a cheap, abundant, domestic energy source that is the leading candidate to rescue the U.S. from dependence on foreign oil. As administered by the California Energy Commission through its rulemaking process, the law will lead to higher consumer electricity costs and jeopardize the advance of promising coal gasification technology.

On May 22, the Energy Commission imposed new rules that will bar state electric utilities from signing new contracts with out-of-state, coal-fired power plants. In January, it similarly restricted private utilities. The problem is that the Los Angeles department of Water and Power (DWP) buys about 20 percent of its electricity from two large coalfired plants in Utah and Arizona. The state will not permit DWP to renew contracts with those plants once they lapse.

This suggests that “experts” at the Energy Commission and the Governor’s Office have found an affordable and dependable energy source to replace coal. But that would be wishful thinking. These bureaucrats will be forcing Californians to rely on unproven and expensive “renewable” energy sources, principally wind power. According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, wind power provided just 36/100 of 1 percent of U.S. electricity in 2005 and is expected to provide only 89/100 of 1 percent of U.S. electricity in 2030. Electricity produced by wind turbines is intermittent, volatile, and unavailable during peak electricity demand. Sufficient wind transmission lines and substations do not currently exist and will cost on average about one and a half million dollars per mile to install. Naturally, these huge costs will be hidden in Californians’ monthly electric bills.

Equally troubling is the state’s hasty rejection of coal. The U.S. has about 25 percent of the world’s coal reserves, more than any other country in the world and enough to supply current U.S. consumption needs for 250 years. This contrasts with the U.S. share of global oil and natural gas reserves, which stands at around 3 percent.

Coal could be America’s energy solution as a transportation fuel as well as an electrical generating source. The Fischer-Tropsch process for converting coal to clear, odorless, low-sulfur diesel fuel has been around since the 1920s. Most of South Africa’s diesel fuel is synthetically produced from coal at its Sasol plant. Syntroleum, Inc. has produced over 400,000 gallons of diesel and jet fuel at its demonstration plant near Tulsa, Oklahoma.

But the deep thinkers at California’s energy bureaucracy have allowed fears of global warming to trump everything else, including state development of a promising coal-based energy regime. In the long run, Californians will pay a high price for these wrongheaded policies.


http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2007/7/31/is-the-surge-working.html

[red states rule]

Bingo.....but if you think the oil companies are going to cut the cost of energy, even if they can pump every drop of oil they can get their hands on, then you are smokin' some liberal, ivy-tower weed.......

There profit is STILL ten cents even with the higher cost of oil. They cost of oil does not change the profit margin

[PostmodernProphet]

We use more oil because we are the worlds economic and military superpower

We ahave alot of oil, and coal we should be using them. Lets start building the nuke power plants as well

I don't get it.....why do we need oil to be the world's economic and military superpower.....we could be just as powerful if our tanks and ships and jets ran on biodiesel AND less subject to foriegn interference.....

if we have so much oil in the US, why do we import the majority of it?.....because it is cheaper to get it someplace else.....as long as it's cheap we speed up the race to total depletion....I say switch to replenishable fuel, let the rest of the world fight over the oil supply.....

[red states rule]

I don't get it.....why do we need oil to be the world's economic and military superpower.....we could be just as powerful if our tanks and ships and jets ran on biodiesel AND less subject to foriegn interference.....

if we have so much oil in the US, why do we import the majority of it?.....because it is cheaper to get it someplace else.....as long as it's cheap we speed up the race to total depletion....I say switch to replenishable fuel, let the rest of the world fight over the oil supply.....

We have to import oil because of the kook left blocking every attempt to drill for the oil

Libs have to appease the enviro wackos to stay in power

[PostmodernProphet]

There profit is STILL ten cents even with the higher cost of oil. They cost of oil does not change the profit margin

If I'm not mistaken, that ten cents is the profit to the station owner at the pump....I don't know how many subsidiaries there are that make their ten cents between the gas pump and the well, but it really doesn't matter to what I am saying......

American companies can make their ten cents for producing energy, or twenty or what ever....I love American companies making profits....I love BEING an American company that makes profit....

but I want American companies making profit in an environment which is not at risk of some foriegn oil supplier saying..."Oh, by the way....if you don't change this and that and the other thing, I am turning this valve which shuts off the oil going into your country".......

[PostmodernProphet]

We have to import oil because of the kook left blocking every attempt to drill for the oil

Libs have to appease the enviro wackos to stay in power

Doesn't matter.....if every limit and restriction on drilling were lifted today, and every oil company in the country started pumping every drop of oil within our borders, we would only be postponing this discussion for a while because eventually it would be gone.....I say it would be better for our economy to make the transition now.......

[red states rule]

If I'm not mistaken, that ten cents is the profit to the station owner at the pump....I don't know how many subsidiaries there are that make their ten cents between the gas pump and the well, but it really doesn't matter to what I am saying......

American companies can make their ten cents for producing energy, or twenty or what ever....I love American companies making profits....I love BEING an American company that makes profit....

but I want American companies making profit in an environment which is not at risk of some foriegn oil supplier saying..."Oh, by the way....if you don't change this and that and the other thing, I am turning this valve which shuts off the oil going into your country".......

Please reread post # 12

We have our own energy waiting foe us to get it - we have to shut up the kook left first

[PostmodernProphet]

Please reread post # 12

read it, pretty sure the author of the article is wrong....I know people who own gas stations, they make 10 cents a gallon at the pump.....if that is the only profit made on the sale of gas then the supplier that delivers their gas makes no profit, the trucking company that transports the fuel from the refinery to the distributer makes no profit, the refinery makes no profit, the pipleline between the refinery and the depot makes no profit, the super tankers that transport the oil from the platform to the depot makes no profit, the company pumping the oil makes no profit......

makes me wonder why they keep doing it......

[red states rule]

read it, pretty sure the author of the article is wrong....I know people who own gas stations, they make 10 cents a gallon at the pump.....if that is the only profit made on the sale of gas then the supplier that delivers their gas makes no profit, the trucking company that transports the fuel from the refinery to the distributer makes no profit, the refinery makes no profit, the pipleline between the refinery and the depot makes no profit, the super tankers that transport the oil from the platform to the depot makes no profit, the company pumping the oil makes no profit......

makes me wonder why they keep doing it......

Most stations owner make one or two cents profit. that is why they have a mini mart to sell other things to the customers

At ten cents profit when you have record demand for your product and you are selling record amounts of your product - you will be making record profits

[PostmodernProphet]

At ten cents profit when you have record demand for your product and you are selling record amounts of your product - you will be making record profits

so, if we calculate how much more profit Exxon made in 2006 than they did in 2005 and divide that increased profit by ten cents, do you figure that will equal the increase in the number of gallons of gas they sold....

be that as it may, I would still prefer to have a thousand ethanol companies making ten cents a gallon than one Citgo.......

[red states rule]

so, if we calculate how much more profit Exxon made in 2006 than they did in 2005 and divide that increased profit by ten cents, do you figure that will equal the increase in the number of gallons of gas they sold....

be that as it may, I would still prefer to have a thousand ethanol companies making ten cents a gallon than one Citgo.......

http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm

[KarlMarx]

They took stupid steps....they thought you could solve the problem by 'conservation'....all that did was delay the problem.....we are more efficient, oil is actually cheaper than it was in 1981 when adjusted for inflation, but we consume more oil by multiple factors because it is cheap.....you need to solve the problem through production, and the reality is, that production is not going to be local if you limit it to petroleum....

I grew up on a farm in Iowa....two years ago they build an ethanol plant about five miles from where I grew up....another plant is being planned about ten miles in the other direction....if we made a committment to E85 or even 100% ethanol we could be energy self-sufficient in less than ten years simply through the market doing it's job.....if the government made a 'space race' type program out of it you could do it in half that....do we have that much time before Chavez decides he wants to dictate his policies to us?
oh by the way... switching to bio fuels may raise the price of food (link below)

there is no such thing a free lunch


http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/united_states/article2080599.ece

[red states rule]

[QUOTE=KarlMarx;97408]oh by the way... switching to bio fuels may raise the price of food (link below)

there is no such thing a free lunch


the only free lunch to libs is what the government can hand out to the masses that vote for them

[actsnoblemartin]

The oil companies are not the same as the gas stations.

I would like to see more refineries built so we could process more oil, and one day for us to become like brazil and become energy independant.

That way we could tell saudi arabia to :pee: off

[red states rule]

The oil companies are not the same as the gas stations.

I would like to see more refineries built so we could process more oil, and one day for us to become like brazil and become energy independant.

That way we could tell saudi arabia to :pee: off

At least somebody get it

[actsnoblemartin]

Thanks. Im tired of the environmental whackos. The environment is turning into a new religion for the extreme left, and that is dangerous because you cant act rational when you are panicking

[red states rule]

Thanks. Im tired of the environmental whackos. The environment is turning into a new religion for the extreme left, and that is dangerous because you cant act rational when you are panicking

and you notice how they tell us how to live our lives, but they ignore those guidelines as they live their lives

[red states rule]

A common problem with alot of people..............


Velshi Has Trouble Understanding Gas and Oil Prices
By Julia A. Seymour | August 1, 2007 - 17:32 ET
According to CNN business reporter Ali Velshi, the relationship between oil and gas prices is difficult to grasp.

"A lot of folks are saying, 'Why have my gas prices come down 17 or 18 cents in the last couple weeks when oil prices are going up?'" said Velshi on the August 1 "American Morning."


Trust me Ali, that's not what I've heard at the pump.

"Well, I hope we've all figured out there's no way, there's no mathematician in the world who can figure out the relationship between gas and oil prices, but you can expect with oil up at 78 bucks a barrel, gas prices will soon follow and that takes things—that takes money out of the pockets of consumers who keep this economy going," he continued.


But Velshi, has not always had such a tough time making sense out of oil and gas economics.

He recognized that refineries are a variable in the gasoline price equation back in April. “We got to use less gasoline or build more refineries,” he said on the April 11 “American Morning.”

Velshi also questioned Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich about refineries and regulations putting pressure on gasoline prices during the April 21 “In the Money.”

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/julia-seymour/2007/08/01/velshi-has-trouble-understanding-gas-oil-prices

[glockmail]

The thing that worries me is that increasing the supply of oil merely extends the problem into the near future...

I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents to a dollar, from $1.50 to $2, from $2 to $3....

I don't want to be sitting here debating what to do about the high cost of oil when it goes from $5 to $6.....

I want a push for replenishable fuels now, so our dependance on oil is over with....I want fuels that can be distilled in every state, in every county, out of whatever is locally surplus...

that isn't going to happen as long as gas prices dip down into some 'comfort' range every two or three months.....

bite the bullet, add a dollar a gallon tax on gas now so the public DEMANDS alternative fuels.......

Where do you propose the tax money go? People who have to drive a lot want to know why you choose to punish them.

[red states rule]

Where do you propose the tax money go? People who have to drive a lot want to know why you choose to punish them.

Iy woild simply hurt the workers and the economy. Some people feel we can choose not to drive and buy less gas - it is not true

[glockmail]

Iy woild simply hurt the workers and the economy. Some people feel we can choose not to drive and buy less gas - it is not true


We can certaintly use less gas. And I actually advocate the use of a tax on fuels to pay for their actual costs. In the case of imported oils, the cost of Middle East policy, which is huge. This would give an incentive to drill for soucres in more stable regions, including the US.

But I would also advocate an equivalent reduction in taxes across the board.

[red states rule]

We can certaintly use less gas. And I actually advocate the use of a tax on fuels to pay for their actual costs. In the case of imported oils, the cost of Middle East policy, which is huge. This would give an incentive to drill for soucres in more stable regions, including the US.

But I would also advocate an equivalent reduction in taxes across the board.

You do not need a tax. We need to tell the enviro wackos to shut up and lets bring in the drills - and start building/expanding refineries to handle the additrional oil

[PostmodernProphet]

The oil companies are not the same as the gas stations.

I would like to see more refineries built so we could process more oil, and one day for us to become like brazil and become energy independant.

That way we could tell saudi arabia to off

At least somebody get it

ROFL....that's exactly what I have been trying to get you to understand all day.....

[red states rule]

ROFL....that's exactly what I have been trying to get you to understand all day.....

You were opposed to more drilling - you said we were running out of oil or it would take to long to get it

[PostmodernProphet]

Where do you propose the tax money go?

I am all in favor of using it to cut my tax bill.....

[nevadamedic]

I am all in favor of using it to cut my tax bill.....

Are you a Liberal?

[red states rule]

I am all in favor of using it to cut my tax bill.....

So let someone else pay the taxes and you get a free ride

Sounds like the way liberals think about life in general

[PostmodernProphet]

You were opposed to more drilling

lol, did you come to that brilliant conclusion before or after I posted....


you can pump ANWAR dry and kill every moose within a hundred miles it and it wouldn't bother me.....

you can drill all you want, but it isn't going to be enough....in the long run you still haven't solved the problem....we need replenishable fuel, not oil....otherwise you aren't telling Saudi Arabia to piss off, you're just handing them money to piss ON you.....

[red states rule]

lol, did you come to that brilliant conclusion before or after I posted....



you can drill all you want, but it isn't going to be enough....in the long run you still haven't solved the problem....we need replenishable fuel, not oil....otherwise you aren't telling Saudi Arabia to piss off, you're just handing them money to piss ON you.....

So we know you say one thing and mean another

and you want others to pay taxes, but you don't

Yep, you are a liberal

[PostmodernProphet]

Are you a Liberal?


ROFL....why, can't you tell....wait till I tell the guys at P&CA that their most hated conservative was mistaken for a liberal......

what is 'liberal' about wanting to end dependance on foreign oil by producing our own energy?

[red states rule]

ROFL....why, can't you tell....wait till I tell the guys at P&CA that their most hated conservative was mistaken for a liberal......

what is 'liberal' about wanting to end dependance on foreign oil by producing our own energy?

the fact yiu want other to pay taxes - and not you was one clue

[PostmodernProphet]

So let someone else pay the taxes and you get a free ride



you guys have some strange conservatives around here.....where I come from ALL conservatives are in favor of reducing income taxes.....why are you in favor of paying more?

[red states rule]

you guys have some strange conservatives around here.....where I come from ALL conservatives are in favor of reducing income taxes.....why are you in favor of paying more?

You seem to want everyone else to pay - but not you

Libs are quick to take other people money away from them

[PostmodernProphet]

So we know you say one thing and mean another


??....I don't recall ever saying something I didn't mean....what do you think I didn't mean.....that I want ethanol production?.....that you can drill all the oil you want?.....that it won't do you any good?.....that it sucks to be dependant on foreign oil?

[red states rule]

??....I don't recall ever saying something I didn't mean....what do you think I didn't mean.....that I want ethanol production?.....that you can drill all the oil you want?.....that it won't do you any good?.....that it sucks to be dependant on foreign oil?

Why bother drilling? We don't have enough oil and it would take to long

Typical enviro kook talking points

We have a huge amount of oil here in the US waiting to be taken out of the ground

[PostmodernProphet]

You seem to want everyone else to pay - but not you

I was asked what I wanted done with the money raised to get people to switch to ethanol....I said I wanted my taxes cut....sorry if you didn't think I was willing to cut your taxes as well, but I don't know you....for all I know, you're one of that half of the country that doesn't pay any taxes...so don't bitch at me because I want my taxes cut and not yours....makes you sound like a liberal, doesn't it....just cuz you think I'm richer than you, you don't think I should get a tax cut....well shove it, you pinko commie slob.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Typical enviro kook talking points

you think it's liberal to build ethanol plants?....it's good solid American business.....why are you against it.....big stock holder in Exxon-Mobile?.....why do you want to make Chavez and the Saudi Arabians richer?

[red states rule]

I was asked what I wanted done with the money raised to get people to switch to ethanol....I said I wanted my taxes cut....sorry if you didn't think I was willing to cut your taxes as well, but I don't know you....for all I know, you're one of that half of the country that doesn't pay any taxes...so don't bitch at me because I want my taxes cut and not yours....makes you sound like a liberal, doesn't it....just cuz you think I'm richer than you, you don't think I should get a tax cut....well shove it, you pinko commie slob.....

When all else fails and the lib has nothing else - they go to the personal attacks

[red states rule]

you think it's liberal to build ethanol plants?....it's good solid American business.....why are you against it.....big stock holder in Exxon-Mobile?.....why do you want to make Chavez and the Saudi Arabians richer?

Libs also edit out the rest of your quotes in a feeble attempt to try and win the debate

[PostmodernProphet]

ROFL....okay, let's figure this thing out from the ground up....I am an evangelical Christian who has voted Republican in every election since Reagan....I am anti-abortion, pro-Iraq war, anti-big government, anti-tax.....

in short, I am at least as conservative as you are....the only difference between us apparently, is that I am a thinking conservative, and the jury is still out in your case.....

now, what do you have against ethanol?

[red states rule]

ROFL....okay, let's figure this thing out from the ground up....I am an evangelical Christian who has voted Republican in every election since Reagan....I am anti-abortion, pro-Iraq war, anti-big government, anti-tax.....

in short, I am at least as conservative as you are....the only difference between us apparently, is that I am a thinking conservative, and the jury is still out in your case.....

now, what do you have against ethanol?

You are as mcuh of a conservative as Ted Kennedy

I have nothing against ethanol. It seems those whoa re always ranting about new sources of energy are fine - up until someone wants to put a ethanol plant near their home

[PostmodernProphet]

and your probably as conservative as Nancy Pelosi.....you want to raise my taxes, you're opposed to American businesses starting up in competiton to foreign oil.....

what are your credentials?....does the red in your name stand for communist?

[red states rule]

and your probably as conservative as Nancy Pelosi.....you want to raise my taxes, you're opposed to American businesses starting up in competiton to foreign oil.....

what are your credentials?....does the red in your name stand for communist?

Nice, but feeble try

When they are losing, libs will always try and smear their opponent

[PostmodernProphet]

let me ask you this, librull.....Citgo is owned by Venezuela, Shell by the Dutch, BP by the British and the Saudis have at least a 40% interest in Exxon.....just who is this mythical "American" oil company thats going to come save your ass from foreign oil?.......

[red states rule]

let me ask you this, librull.....Citgo is owned by Venezuela, Shell by the Dutch, BP by the British and the Saudis have at least a 40% interest in Exxon.....just who is this mythical "American" oil company thats going to come save your ass from foreign oil?.......

How about the ones that drill the oil, refine in the US, and distrubute it to the 50 states

[PostmodernProphet]

How about the ones that drill the oil, refine in the US, and distrubute it to the 50 states

who owns them.....Americans or Chinese?.....

[red states rule]

who owns them.....Americans or Chinese?.....

Are all the itmes in your home, and the clothes you have on, all made in the US

They employ US workers, and without them - the US would be a third world company

[PostmodernProphet]

ten thousand ethanol plants scattered all over the country would employ a whole lot more Americans.......

[red states rule]

ten thousand ethanol plants scattered all over the country would employ a whole lot more Americans.......

and more refineries and more oil rigs would employ thousands more

and lower the price of gas even more as well

[Yurt]

The thing that worries me is that increasing the supply of oil merely extends the problem into the near future...

I remember when gas prices went from 25 cents to a dollar, from $1.50 to $2, from $2 to $3....

I don't want to be sitting here debating what to do about the high cost of oil when it goes from $5 to $6.....

I want a push for replenishable fuels now, so our dependance on oil is over with....I want fuels that can be distilled in every state, in every county, out of whatever is locally surplus...

that isn't going to happen as long as gas prices dip down into some 'comfort' range every two or three months.....

bite the bullet, add a dollar a gallon tax on gas now so the public DEMANDS alternative fuels.......


Like ethanol? How about water?

You like corn at its current prices and availability? Most of the world depends on it.

Water? Sheesh, isn't there some problem with a shortage of that already?

[Yurt]

ten thousand ethanol plants scattered all over the country would employ a whole lot more Americans.......

ethanol is a JOKE. so is water......

[PostmodernProphet]

'lowering' the price like they have for the last sixty years?.....you bet....and while the oil companies....the FOREIGN oil companies....bleed you dry, just remember that you could have been petroleum free by 2010 and kept all that money in the US......

[PostmodernProphet]

You like corn at its current prices and availability?

no, I want it higher....I own farm land in Iowa...

food prices?......so sorry, your can of soda might go up a penny because corn syrup is more expensive....I hear Starbucks raised the price of it's coffee nine cents because ethanol was making milk more expensive.....of course they only put four cents worth of milk in their drinks, but hey, any excuse in a storm, right?

[Yurt]

'lowering' the price like they have for the last sixty years?.....you bet....and while the oil companies....the FOREIGN oil companies....bleed you dry, just remember that you could have been petroleum free by 2010 and kept all that money in the US......

here is your pipe, sorry, no dream to go with it........

[Yurt]

PostmodernProphet;97822]no, I want it higher....I own farm land in Iowa...

Do I bow to your shiekness now or later? Or should I address you as "cornhoolio?"


food prices?......so sorry, your can of soda might go up a penny because corn syrup is more expensive....I hear Starbucks raised the price of it's coffee nine cents because ethanol was making milk more expensive.....of course they only put four cents worth of milk in their drinks, but hey, any excuse in a storm, right?

You think it is going to be a penny? LOL. You AINT no farmer boy. Imagine ethanol completely replacing gasoline.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................. is your afternoon nap over? Think about it again.

[MtnBiker]

no, I want it higher....I own farm land in Iowa...

food prices?......so sorry, your can of soda might go up a penny because corn syrup is more expensive....I hear Starbucks raised the price of it's coffee nine cents because ethanol was making milk more expensive.....of course they only put four cents worth of milk in their drinks, but hey, any excuse in a storm, right?

Do you believe that only corn syrup based food products will or have increased because of corn prices?

What do cows, chickens and pigs eat?

[PostmodernProphet]

Do I bow to your shiekness now or later? Or should I address you as "cornhoolio?"

you got something against capitalism?.....you grow a strange breed of conservatives around here.....

[PostmodernProphet]

What do cows, chickens and pigs eat?


well, for one thing, cows can eat brewer's mash, which is the residue that remains after ethanol production.....

for another thing, corn is certainly not the only thing that ethanol can be made from.....

[MtnBiker]

well, for one thing, cows can eat brewer's mash, which is the residue that remains after ethanol production.....

for another thing, corn is certainly not the only thing that ethanol can be made from.....

What is the percentage of brewer's mash that could be used for feed as compared to the ethanol produced?

Currently how much ethanol is made from other bio materials other than corn?

I'm not against ethanol, there are just better economical choices for fuel.

[PostmodernProphet]

You think it is going to be a penny?

high fructose corn syrup recently sold on the commodities market for $452 a ton....that's about $.22 a pound.....just how much corn syrup do you think is in your can of soda?

[Yurt]

you got something against capitalism?.....you grow a strange breed of conservatives around here.....

So on the record:

You have no problem with corn prices skyrocketing and corn becoming a scarce commodity if, a big if, ethanol becomes a viable fuel?

And for the record, YOU own a farm that produces corn.


And Mr. I Seem To Care Alot, how to you plan on turning our lands into ethanol producing lands? Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

Oil is here, we just need to refine it. Yet, the libs won't let us. Refined oil is the key. Get the corn out of your ears there boy..........:)

[PostmodernProphet]

there are just better economical choices for fuel

great, use them....use them all, just stop our dependence on foreign oil.....

[MtnBiker]

high fructose corn syrup recently sold on the commodities market for $452 a ton....

What did it sell for 6 months ago?

[PostmodernProphet]

Currently how much ethanol is made from other bio materials other than corn?


world wide, more ethanol is made from sugarcane than from corn.....corn is more practical in Iowa, because it is in surplus (yes, surplus....you folks have been paying farmers not to grow corn for decades, and guaranteeing them $3.20 a bushel even when the markets paid $1.90, so don't bitch about having to pay the farmer more for corn, it's actually costing you less)...

it can be made from any material that contains sugars, the higher the sugar content, the more ethanol you can produce, but anything will work....experiments are currently underway on orange peels, algae, corn stalks.....virtually any vegetable residue will work.....

[PostmodernProphet]

You have no problem with corn prices skyrocketing and corn becoming a scarce commodity if, a big if, ethanol becomes a viable fuel?

sorry, son....you don't have the facts.....


Corn prices, which have been easing since hitting $4 a bushel in February, have responded. A DTN price index of cash-market corn _ which accounts for most of the corn used to make ethanol, according to Kment _ stood just under $3 on Friday.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/30/AR2007073000172.html

hardly skyrocketing.....

and if you don't like corn based ethanol, invest in cellulose based ethanol.....but get your money out of petroleum, you can't compete with the foreign oil companies......

[PostmodernProphet]

What did it sell for 6 months ago?

$451....it was $463 in 1993.....

http://www.ag.iastate.edu/centers/fapri/tables/commodity.pdf

[red states rule]

no, I want it higher....I own farm land in Iowa...

food prices?......so sorry, your can of soda might go up a penny because corn syrup is more expensive....I hear Starbucks raised the price of it's coffee nine cents because ethanol was making milk more expensive.....of course they only put four cents worth of milk in their drinks, but hey, any excuse in a storm, right?

and I have heard how the libs are upset over Starbucks raising the price of their coffee

[PostmodernProphet]

screw em....and screw the folks who complain about higher prices for their filet minion and their eggs benedict.....

it's about time you folks get off your 'cheap food' welfare line.....big governement has been destroying the American farmer ever since Johnson created the welfare state.....

[red states rule]

screw em....and screw the folks who complain about higher prices for their filet minion and their eggs benedict.....

it's about time you folks get off your 'cheap food' welfare line.....big governement has been destroying the American farmer ever since Johnson created the welfare state.....

Libs have a problem if a company raises it prices for profit reasons - but love it when the increase price is a result of a tax increase

[PostmodernProphet]

libs also like to have big government guarantee them things like cheap food and cheap gasoline and cheap labor, no matter what it does to American business....

is that why you are a librull?

[red states rule]

libs also like to have big government guarantee them things like cheap food and cheap gasoline and cheap labor, no matter what it does to American business....

is that why you are a librull?

The first things libs do in a debate iwhen they are losing, s to deny they are a liberal and accuse their opponent of being a liberal

You seem to want it both ways.

[PostmodernProphet]

The first things libs do in a debate when they are losing, is to deny they are a liberal and accuse their opponent of being a liberal

if that's true, then you were the first one here to reveal his liberal nature.....Poser......

you are willing to pretend you're a conservative 'till it starts hitting your pocketbook....then you're just as ready as the rest to stand in line and let big government keep your food and your gas cheap....

where do you come off pretending that the test of being conservative is whether you are willing to let oil companies bleed you dry?......

there is oil in the US, sure....but they aren't pumping it....and there are plenty of places they could pump it from existing wells without interference from environmentalists.....why aren't they doing it?.....because they can make more money buying their crude from Venezuela.....

so Chavez takes your money and uses it to bribe people in other Latin American countries to hate your ass....

and you think the oil companies give a shit about your political beliefs?......do you think any oil company out there really WANTS to build a new refinery in the US?.....when the result is that prices, and profits would go down?....

no, they are happy leading you along, cutting prices now and then so you stay fat and happy with your cheap gas.....which gradually gets higher and higher, all while you pretend it's still cheap.....

if you were really a conservative you would be pushing for small American businesses to take over the energy production in this country, and get it away from the Big Business, Big Government monopoly......

[red states rule]

if that's true, then you were the first one here to reveal his liberal nature.....Poser......

you are willing to pretend you're a conservative 'till it starts hitting your pocketbook....then you're just as ready as the rest to stand in line and let big government keep your food and your gas cheap....

where do you come off pretending that the test of being conservative is whether you are willing to let oil companies bleed you dry?......

there is oil in the US, sure....but they aren't pumping it....and there are plenty of places they could pump it from existing wells without interference from environmentalists.....why aren't they doing it?.....because they can make more money buying their crude from Venezuela.....

so Chavez takes your money and uses it to bribe people in other Latin American countries to hate your ass....

and you think the oil companies give a shit about your political beliefs?......do you think any oil company out there really WANTS to build a new refinery in the US?.....when the result is that prices, and profits would go down?....

no, they are happy leading you along, cutting prices now and then so you stay fat and happy with your cheap gas.....which gradually gets higher and higher, all while you pretend it's still cheap.....

if you were really a conservative you would be pushing for small American businesses to take over the energy production in this country, and get it away from the Big Business, Big Government monopoly......

Oil companies are not bleeding us try. They make a dime profit on a gallon of gas, while government maks 50 to 60 per gallon in taxes

For what the oil companies have to do to get the oil, and the investments they have to make, and the risk they take in drilling, the dime profit is very reasonable

[PostmodernProphet]

Oil companies are not bleeding us try. They make a dime profit on a gallon of gas

tell you what, red.....go to google images and type in 'dubai construction' and look at what your dimes are building....then go to google news and type in Hugo Chavez and see what your dimes are buying.....

then, if you have the balls to be a REAL conservative, start supporting whatever it takes to get rid of our dependance on oil......

[red states rule]

tell you what, red.....go to google images and type in 'dubai construction' and look at what your dimes are building....then go to google news and type in Hugo Chavez and see what your dimes are buying.....

then, if you have the balls to be a REAL conservative, start supporting whatever it takes to get rid of our dependance on oil......

Give it up. I posted links that proves you wrong

[glockmail]

Oil companies are not bleeding us try. They make a dime profit on a gallon of gas, while government maks 50 to 60 per gallon in taxes

For what the oil companies have to do to get the oil, and the investments they have to make, and the risk they take in drilling, the dime profit is very reasonable

They make a dime on a dollar, actually, or about 3 times your statement.

[PostmodernProphet]

Give it up. I posted links that proves you wrong
ah, you posted links....well let's see.....you said that oil companies only make a dime....I responded that I knew some gas stations that add a dime, which leaves nothing left for anyone else....then you posted a link to

http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price1.htm

from that link I quote....


There's no set standard for how much gas stations add on to the price. Some may add just a couple of cents, while others may add as much as a dime or more.

now, as far as 10 cents a gallon for the oil companies is concerned....

I see that in 2006 Exxon had profits of $39.5 billion. They had production of 4.12 million barrels of oil a day. If my calculations are correct (and I am perfectly willing to be shown inadequate at math) that means they had profits of $22 per barrel.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22143138-31037,00.html

now, if they only made ten cents a gallon, then they had to produce 220 gallons of gasoline from each barrel of crude, correct?

this site, however, says that you can produce 19.5 gallons of gasoline from a barrel of crude.

http://www.gravmag.com/oil3.html

I withdraw my objections....any company that can stretch a barrel of crude to produce tenfold, deserves all the profit it can get.....

[red states rule]

They make a dime on a dollar, actually, or about 3 times your statement.

No, they make 10 cents profit per gallon

[PostmodernProphet]

why are you willing to let Chavez and the Middle East drain money out of the US, just because it's "only ten cents a gallon"?

[red states rule]

why are you willing to let Chavez and the Middle East drain money out of the US, just because it's "only ten cents a gallon"?

I already said how we can get our own oil

Try reading s-l-o-w-l-y

[PostmodernProphet]

I already said how we can get our own oil


yes, you did....what you didn't do is answer the question....why are you willing to let Chavez and the Middle East make ten cents a gallon on every gallon of gas Americans buy? Why do you pretend it's some American company doing it and not some South American dictator who would love to see you dead....

[red states rule]

yes, you did....what you didn't do is answer the question....why are you willing to let Chavez and the Middle East make ten cents a gallon on every gallon of gas Americans buy?

If libs had not blocked every attempt to get the oil we have within our own country and oppose the expansion/building nre refineries - we would be so much closer to telling them to take a hike

[PostmodernProphet]

building nre refineries

name an oil company that would build a refinery....and thus increase supply and decrease price.....

[red states rule]

name an oil company that would build a refinery....and thus increase supply and decrease price.....

With the handcuffs taken off - take your pick

[PostmodernProphet]

by the way, I went to all that work researching Exxon for you, you could at least mention it....

[PostmodernProphet]

take your pick

my pick is None of the above.....

[red states rule]

my pick is None of the above.....

Not that your pick is worth anything of importance

[PostmodernProphet]

true, but some day I may be as famous as you are....then my opinion will really count for something.....

[red states rule]

true, but some day I may be as famous as you are....then my opinion will really count for something.....

It will count when you say something worth remembering - or correct

I wonder which wil happen first?

[red states rule]

August 02, 2007
The Ethanol Follies: latest victim is Clorox
Ed Lasky
The high price of corn taking its toll.

The political program of ethanol production (because this is what it truly has become: a subsidy for farmers and a blandishment for early primary states in the grain belt) has pushed up corn prices with dubious benefits in terms of increasing our energy efficiency and independence from less than reliable oil-exporting nations. This push in corn prices has been rippling through the economy.

Little appreciated is the fact that corn itself is a marvelous source of a wide range of chemicals and feedstuff for our industry. Latest victim: Clorox. The company released sharply lower earnings and "credits" a large increase in input prices - that is, the byproducts of corn. How many employees will lose their jobs, compounding the loss shareholders are already going to endure?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/08/ethanol_blowback_the_latest_vi.html

[PostmodernProphet]

Keep bleach cheap!...support foriegn oil!

Keep this in mind, red.....the fuel costs of transporting the grapes you see in your grocery store from Chili, of transporting the lettuce you see in your grocery store from California, of transporting the pork loin you see in your grocery store from Iowa, the milk and eggs you see in your grocery store from some farm a hundred miles away from your town....those fuel costs are a far larger share of your food dollar than the increased costs from a doubled cost of a bushel of corn....

[red states rule]

Keep bleach cheap!...support foriegn oil!

Not that facts mean anything to you, but why not addresss the point?

[PostmodernProphet]

Not that facts mean anything to you, but why not addresss the point?

deferring to my seniors....I am giving you plenty of opportunity to respond to my post about Exxon.....

[red states rule]

deferring to my seniors....I am giving you plenty of opportunity to respond to my post about Exxon.....

More oil company bashing - what is the point you want a response to?

[PostmodernProphet]

but why not addresss the point?

but, so be it......I will address the point....


Shares in The Clorox Co. hit a 52-week low Thursday as the company missed analyst estimates even as profits and sales climbed.

The Oakland company said lower consumption of laundry and cleaning products and fewer shipments of its Kingsford charcoal and auto-care products * which it blamed on poor April weather * diminished earnings.



http://eastbay.bizjournals.com/eastbay/stories/2007/07/30/daily25.html?jst=b_ln_hl

[PostmodernProphet]

More oil company bashing

??....bashing?.....I quoted a stock market business report and an oil company public relations site.........

you wanted facts about oil company profits, I gave you facts about oil company profits.....

[red states rule]

E85 Ethanol: Money Saver or Big Hoax?

With gas prices soaring past $3 a gallon this spring...A growing number of drivers are taking a serious look at E85 Ethanol, the fuel made from corn!

Is it worth trying...If your car can handle it? You may be surprised what some drivers are finding.

Stacie Meyer and her husband are burning a lot of 3 dollar plus gas in their Ford Explorer.

But then they spotted an E85 pump.

Like many newer cars, their Explorer can take E85 Ethanol made from corn.

And so when they saw E85 for under 3 bucks a gallon, they filled up.

But the thrill didn't last long.

Stacie says"We found while it is cheaper, which we like, and better for the environment, which we love, the fuel economy is a bit less."

Stacie says their Explorer usually gets around 18 miles per gallon.

But when they checked the E85 mileage with their trip odometer, they were stunned.

Stacie says "It went down to about 12 MPG. A huge difference! "We knew it would give decreased mileage...We didn't know it would be that much."

Critics call it the "dirty little secret" of E85 fuel: that it turns gas guzzlers into corn guzzlers.

*According to the EPA, many vehicles see a 25 % or greater mileage reduction with E85!

*The EPA rates the Meyer's Explorer as 16 city, 18 highway with gas...But only 11/13 with e85.

*The new Chevy Tahoe? The EPA rates it 15/21 with gas, just 11/15 mpg with E85.

Click the above link to see some other cars.

Bottom line: Car and Driver Magazine says E85 needs to be almost 30 percent cheaper than gas to save you money.

"If its gonna be a 30% decrease in fuel economy, it has to be 30% cheaper. And its not," says Stacie.

However, she plans to continue trying it on occasion, just to cut her oil use.

Indeed, E-85 Ethanol could help reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

But if more and more drivers report less and less mileage....it may not become the miracle fuel some would like it to be.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/content/segments/dwym/story.aspx?content_id=37079a27-0ea6-463a-8c5d-406696b518c7

[PostmodernProphet]

so it's going to be more expensive......what's your point, that you prefer cheap fuel to freedom from foreign oil?......we knew that already.....

listen, little Grasshopper....the lesson you need to learn from this thread is this....

the essence of being a true conservative is not simply defending those things that liberals bash....the essence is promoting conservative values....

now hopefully you will agree with me that one of the things that an American conservative should value is the growth and health of American business, particularly small business...

take a look at the oil industry.....80% of the world's oil production is controlled by five companies....only one of those companies, Exxon, is even nominally American and that is owned 40% by the Saudis.....

none of those companies gives a rat's ass about promoting small American business and would in fact, spend great amounts of money to keep any small American business from competing with them....

as the page I cited above shows, for every barrel of oil consumed by Americans, $22 goes overseas, to Mexico, Venezuela or the Saudis....

now tell me, should someone who promotes conservative values in the US support small American business or a foreign owned oil company?......

you have accused me of being a liberal simply because I 'bash' oil companies.....hopefully, you will learn to recognize that as a conservative, you ought to be bashing oil companies even harder than the liberals.....

are you a conservative or merely a liberal basher.....I hear echoes of your mother's admonitions...."I suppose if all the liberals at school told you not to jump off a cliff, you would jump off a cliff!"....

open your eyes, man, and stop defending oil companies.....you are letting the liberals set the agenda by defending everything they attack, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of either conservatives or all of Americans.....

[red states rule]

so it's going to be more expensive......what's your point, that you prefer cheap fuel to freedom from foreign oil?......we knew that already.....

listen, little Grasshopper....the lesson you need to learn from this thread is this....

the essence of being a true conservative is not simply defending those things that liberals bash....the essence is promoting conservative values....

now hopefully you will agree with me that one of the things that an American conservative should value is the growth and health of American business, particularly small business...

take a look at the oil industry.....80% of the world's oil production is controlled by five companies....only one of those companies, Exxon, is even nominally American and that is owned 40% by the Saudis.....

none of those companies gives a rat's ass about promoting small American business and would in fact, spend great amounts of money to keep any small American business from competing with them....

as the page I cited above shows, for every barrel of oil consumed by Americans, $22 goes overseas, to Mexico, Venezuela or the Saudis....

now tell me, should someone who promotes conservative values in the US support small American business or a foreign owned oil company?......

you have accused me of being a liberal simply because I 'bash' oil companies.....hopefully, you will learn to recognize that as a conservative, you ought to be bashing oil companies even harder than the liberals.....

are you a conservative or merely a liberal basher.....I hear echoes of your mother's admonitions...."I suppose if all the liberals at school told you not to jump off a cliff, you would jump off a cliff!"....

open your eyes, man, and stop defending oil companies.....you are letting the liberals set the agenda by defending everything they attack, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of either conservatives or all of Americans.....

You are an arrogant little troll who enjoys attention

[PostmodernProphet]

"When all else fails and the lib has nothing else - they go to the personal attacks"

I read that on a discussion board recently......very recently.....

[red states rule]

"When all else fails and the lib has nothing else - they go to the personal attacks"

I read that on a discussion board recently......very recently.....

I was responding to your persoanl attacks

You left that part out - sicne it blows your post out of the water

[PostmodernProphet]

perhaps, but this is like the game Battleship.....I still have a lot of boats you haven't come close to hitting yet......

[red states rule]

perhaps, but this is like the game Battleship.....I still have a lot of boats you haven't bothered to aim at yet......

I am in the Pacific with my battleships, and you are playing with toy boats in your bathtub

[PostmodernProphet]

you are playing with toy boats in your bathtub

they don't use foreign oil......

[red states rule]

they don't use foreign oil......

no, they operate on hot air from the Capt

[PostmodernProphet]

woot!....alternative energy!

[red states rule]

woot!....alternative energy!

If we need wind power you can help in that area

[PostmodernProphet]

I love wind power.....back in July we traveled to visit my folks in Iowa, which currently ranks third in the country for the mwatts of electricity generated by wind power.....

drove past at least a dozen wind farms on the way.....

http://www.wibuilder.com/election-2004/images/cl1.jpg

[red states rule]

I love wind power.....back in July we traveled to visit my folks in Iowa, which currently ranks third in the country for the mwatts of electricity generated by wind power.....

drove past at least a dozen wind farms on the way.....

http://www.wibuilder.com/election-2004/images/cl1.jpg

I laughed when the story came out how Ted Kennedy and John kerry blocked a windmil farm out in the ocean because it would "spoil" the view from their beachfront homes

[red states rule]

BTW - then you have the PETA nuts screaming about all the birds killed by the windmills

[PostmodernProphet]

you could always tie a PETA member to each windmill....their screams would keep the birds away.....

you know, maybe that's why Iowa ranks third in wind production.....there aren't many PETA members in a state that survives on livestock production.......

[red states rule]

you could always tie a PETA member to each windmill....their screams would keep the birds away.....

Nice touch

[actsnoblemartin]

It is only a short term solution, what we need is, to try to find a economically viable alternative to oil. So we can tell the saudi's to f off.


The simple way to lower gas prices is to let the oil companies do what they do best: find, drill, and refine oil

It is not rocket science folks


Just Drill, Baby
Congress's energy policies would hinder America's economy.

BY PETE DU PONT
Monday, July 30, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

America's domestic oil production is declining, importation of oil is rising, and gasoline is more expensive. The government's Energy Information Administration reports that U.S. crude oil field production declined to 1.9 billion barrels in 2005 from 3.5 billion in 1970, and the share of our oil that is imported has increased to 60% from 27% in 1985. The price of gasoline has risen to $3.02 this month from $2 in today's dollars in 1985.

Washington politicians will tell you this is an "energy crisis," but America's energy challenges are far more political than substantive.

First, we are not running out of oil. In 1920 it was estimated that the world supply of oil was 60 billion barrels. By 1950 it was up to 600 billion, and by 1990 to two trillion. In 2000 the world supply of oil was estimated to be three trillion barrels.

The U.S. has substantial supplies of oil and gas that could be accessed if lawmakers would allow it, but they frequently don't. A National Petroleum Council study released last week reports that 40 billion barrels of America's "recoverable oil reserves are off limits or are subject to significant lease restrictions"--half inshore and half offshore--and similar restrictions apply to more than 250 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. (We consume about 22 trillion cubic feet a year.)

Access to the 10 billion barrels of oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Reserve has been prohibited for decades. Some 85 billion barrels of recoverable oil and 420 trillion cubic feet of natural gas exist on the Outer Continental Shelf, but a month ago the House again, as it did last year, voted down an amendment that would have allowed the expansion of coastal drilling for oil and natural gas. All of which leaves the U.S. as the only nation in the world that has forbidden access to significant sources of domestic energy supplies.

Then the Senate voted in June to mandate a reduction in projected future oil usage of 10 million barrels a day, or 35%, which, since our domestic oil production is declining, means less imports. In other words, Congress wants to block drilling for more American oil while at the same time blocking the importation of oil--not a rational energy policy.

On the other side of the coin is the need for more refineries to produce the oil products we need: gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel and plastics. Twenty-five years ago we had 254 oil refineries; today there are just 145 (although they are a bit more productive) since we haven't built a new refinery in America for 30 years.

Then there is nuclear power, America's largest pollution-free source of energy. One hundred four nuclear plants supply about 20% of our electricity, and we could build many more. As President Bush pointed out two weeks ago, "Our country has not ordered a new nuclear power plant since the 1970s." He recommends that we build three new nuclear plants a year to meet our energy needs. But new nuclear plants have been continually opposed by the liberal establishment that now controls Congress.

Finally, there is coal, the second-largest supplier of world energy after oil. At current consumption levels, America has more than a 100-year supply of it, but mining is difficult and burning it emits significant carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Proposed controls and fees on carbon dioxide emissions are already significantly reducing the use of coal. Last week The Wall Street Journal reported that two dozen of the 150 new coal-fired electrical plants planned to be built have recently been cancelled.

Oil, natural gas and nuclear power are the indispensable energy resources to insure the prosperity of America's economy. But that is not what the congressional leadership thinks. So if we mustn't drill offshore for oil or natural gas, or build nuclear power plants, what is the politically correct action Congress intends to take?
Increasing ethanol subsidies for farmers is at the top of the list. Ethanol is a politically hot energy substance produced from crops like corn, soybeans, sunflowers and switch grass. Current law requires 7.5 billion gallons to be produced by 2012; the new Senate bill would increase that to 36 billion by 2022.

But ethanol is not a good gasoline substitute. It takes some seven gallons of oil to produce eight gallons of corn-based ethanol--diesel fuel for the tractors to plant and harvest the corn, pesticides to protect it, and fuel for trucks to transport the ethanol around the country. So there is not much energy gain, nor with all the gasoline involved does it help with global warming by reducing carbon dioxide emissions. And ethanol yields one-third less energy per gallon than gasoline, so that mileage per gallon of ethanol-blended auto fuel is less than gasoline mileage.

Ethanol is a politically popular subsidized product. Producers get a 51-cent-a-gallon subsidy and are protected from international ethanol imports by a 2.5% tariff and an ethanol import duty of 54 cents a gallon. These subsidies have brought more than 100 American ethanol refineries into operation, and another six dozen are going to be built, which has nearly doubled the price of corn, raised the cost of beef and other corn-fed livestock, and increased the cost of milk and corn syrup for soft-drink manufacturers.

Then there are all the other energy ideas Congress wishes to adopt--better energy efficiency for washers, driers, boilers, motors and refrigerators; greater fuel efficiency for cars; and more use of wind, solar and geothermal power generation. Good ideas all--especially more fuel-efficient automobiles--but not substantively or immediately very helpful in meeting the challenge of increasing America's energy supplies to keep our economy, jobs and prosperity increasing.
To do that we must build many more nuclear power plants and increase our drilling for oil and gas. The NPC report says it takes 15 to 20 years from exploration until production begins, and it costs $3 billion to build an average 120,000-barrel-a-day oil refinery. That is just the opposite of the current congressional policy of reducing oil use, blocking access to existing domestic oil reserves, not increasing nuclear power generation, and touting ethanol as another subsidy for farmers.

Mr. du Pont, a former governor of Delaware, is chairman of the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis. His column appears once a month.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110010391

[red states rule]

It is only a short term solution, what we need is, to try to find a economically viable alternative to oil. So we can tell the saudi's to f off.

We need to tell the enviro wackos to piss off, let the oil companies drill, build and expand refineries, build nuke power plants, use coal more, and in a few years - the US will have our own energy supplies

[PostmodernProphet]

It takes some seven gallons of oil to produce eight gallons of corn-based ethanol--diesel fuel for the tractors to plant and harvest the corn, pesticides to protect it, and fuel for trucks to transport the ethanol around the country.

lol.....unless of course we convert those tractors and trucks to run on biodiesel or ethanol as well.....

[red states rule]

lol.....unless of course we convert those tractors and trucks to run on biodiesel or ethanol as well.....

Why do that when we have plenty of oil within our reach?

[PostmodernProphet]

build nuke power plants, use coal more

the problem there, is that unless you find some way to make an electric car, nuclear or coal energy is not going to reduce oil use for transportation.........and in any event, the US has plenty of non-foreign resources to produce electricity.....

[red states rule]

the problem there, is that unless you find some way to make an electric car, nuclear or coal energy is not going to reduce oil use for transportation.........and in any event, the US has plenty of non-foreign resources to produce electricity.....

The electric car was a dud

Do they still make them?

[PostmodernProphet]

Why do that when we have plenty of oil within our reach?

because the oil within reach is owned by Chavez.......

[red states rule]

because the oil within reach is owned by Chavez.......

There are other oil companies besides Citgo

[PostmodernProphet]

The electric car was a dud

Do they still make them?


some oil company bought the company that held the patents on batteries.....and shut it down......

[PostmodernProphet]

There are other oil companies besides Citgo


true....we could reach for the British, or the Dutch, or the Saudis.....

[red states rule]

some oil company bought the company that held the patents on batteries.....and shut it down......

No, the car was a piece of shit. No power going up a hill, no speed, and little milage between charges

[PostmodernProphet]

Ovshinsky had invented a battery in 1999 that doubled the range of the electric car.....he entered into a deal with GM that gave them the rights to the patent....GM sold it to Texaco who sold it to Chevron...all within a matter of weeks......the factory in Detroit that was researching and developing the battery was shut down within months.....


http://www.time.com/time/reports/environment/heroes/heroesgallery/0,2967,ovshinsky,00.html

http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

[red states rule]

Ovshinsky had invented a battery in 1999 that doubled the range of the electric car.....he entered into a deal with GM that gave them the rights to the patent....GM sold it to Texaco who sold it to Chevron...all within a matter of weeks......the factory in Detroit that was researching and developing the battery was shut down within months.....


http://www.time.com/time/reports/environment/heroes/heroesgallery/0,2967,ovshinsky,00.html

http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

The electric car was a waste of money and people decide not to buy it

The free market at work

[PostmodernProphet]

based on the fact that you responded less than four minutes after I posted, I can only assume you didn't even bother to read the articles.....of course, that was also obvious from your response....

have you ever heard the saying "you become what you hate"?.........you are getting more liberal every day.......now you are reaching conclusions without looking at the facts.......

[PostmodernProphet]

The free market at work

is that how you define the free market?.....oil companies taking competitors OFF the market?.....dang, you are one strange conservative.......

[red states rule]

based on the fact that you responded less than four minutes after I posted, I can only assume you didn't even bother to read the articles.....of course, that was also obvious from your response....

have you ever heard the saying "you become what you hate"?.........you are getting more liberal every day.......now you are reaching conclusions without looking at the facts.......

i know those who spent money on the electric car had a dim bulb in their head

[red states rule]

is that how you define the free market?.....oil companies taking competitors OFF the market?.....dang, you are one strange conservative.......

They were not making enough money to keep making them

[PostmodernProphet]

They were not making enough money to keep making them

ah.....and they reached that conclusion thirty days after they bought the company from GM, I suppose.....pretty stupid of them to buy a company that they couldn't make any money on, don't you think?

[red states rule]

ah.....and they reached that conclusion thirty days after they bought the company from GM, I suppose.....pretty stupid of them to buy a company that they couldn't make any money on, don't you think?

This may come as shock to you, but they are in business to make money. Not to make products to keep the nanny state libs happy

[PostmodernProphet]

but they are in business to make money

Red....you aren't listening......Chevron paid money to buy the company from GM....only months later they shut it down......how on earth do you go from there to "they are in business to MAKE money".....they didn't buy that company to make money....they did it to eliminate a competitor.....

[red states rule]

Red....you aren't listening......Chevron paid money to buy the company from GM....only months later they shut it down......how on earth do you go from there to "they are in business to MAKE money".....they didn't buy that company to make money....they did it to eliminate a competitor.....


they have bean counters - they can look ahead and tell if the product would sell

[PostmodernProphet]

they have bean counters - they can look ahead and tell if the product would sell

well, they better fire the bean counter that told them to buy the company then.......lol.....I swear, Red, you have to be the most naive person I have ever debated with.....

[red states rule]

well, they better fire the bean counter that told them to buy the company then.......lol.....I swear, Red, you have to be the most naive person I have ever debated with.....

facts about how a business works is a shock to you