The Art of the Carrier Deal

[gabosaurus]

Business as usual with the federal government. :cool:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/30/federal-contracts-likely-biggest-factor-carrier-deal/94670496/


Carrier Corp.'s decision to keep hundreds of jobs in Indianapolis had more to do with access to the federal government than state incentives, sources familiar with the deal told IndyStar.

Carrier is maintaining its Indianapolis operations largely because of the business interests of its parent company, United Technologies Corp., said John Mutz, an Indiana Economic Development Corp. board member. The IEDC awards state incentives, primarily training grants and tax credits.

Mutz, who was briefed on the state's offer to Carrier, said United Technologies "wants to make sure they maintain a favorable relationship" with the incoming Trump administration.

[jimnyc]

They are staying because ultimately it's better for their bottom line. That's what all these deals will be about, and the same with working with other countries and any deals for that fact. It's all about the benjamins.

[aboutime]

Business as usual with the federal government. :cool:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/11/30/federal-contracts-likely-biggest-factor-carrier-deal/94670496/


gabby. Someday, when you begin to have a heart, and human emotions. You should think about all of those AMERICANS who no longer have to face a DISMAL, Worrysome Christmas for their children.
Too bad you have to constantly present the GLASS as HALF EMPTY, rather than HALF FULL. But then. Your expected Liberal, Leftwing ways were predictable, and you are so sad. Hope the PETITION to secede in CA gets some traction. I would enjoy dealing with a foreigner like you....hoping to make friends on DP from the BRAINLESS WORLD OF LIBERAL STUPIDITY called The GOLDEN (former) STATE.

[CSM]

gabby. Someday, when you begin to have a heart, and human emotions. You should think about all of those AMERICANS who no longer have to face a DISMAL, Worrysome Christmas for their children.
Too bad you have to constantly present the GLASS as HALF EMPTY, rather than HALF FULL. But then. Your expected Liberal, Leftwing ways were predictable, and you are so sad. Hope the PETITION to secede in CA gets some traction. I would enjoy dealing with a foreigner like you....hoping to make friends on DP from the BRAINLESS WORLD OF LIBERAL STUPIDITY called The GOLDEN (former) STATE.

I am sure that Dems/libs are upset about the carrier deal because they just lost 1000 votes in future elections. If Trump manages to do this with many other companies, the DNC will be in even more trouble then they are right now.

[pete311]

How does a $7m tax break make carrier stay when they said they would save $65m by moving. Something doesn't add up.

[NightTrain]

How does a $7m tax break make carrier stay when they said they would save $65m by moving. Something doesn't add up.

Where are you getting those figures?

[pete311]

Where are you getting those figures?

they are in just about every article about the deal...
http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-finds-partial-success-with-carrier-2016-11
http://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-gives-7-million-in-tax-breaks-to-keep-carrier-jobs-1480608461

[pete311]

The real message behind the Carrier deal isn’t those 800 jobs
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-real-message-behind-the-carrier-deal-isnt-those-800-jobs-2016-12-02


Still, the biggest evidence that this is about the future of American manufacturing involves actions by Carrier and the state of Indiana. Carrier will add $18 million investment to this plant, which will surely boost production and, yes, automate much of the assembly process. The Carrier letter admitted as much noting “this announcement is good news for many, we recognize it is not good news for everyone.”
The new investment by Carrier will eventually lead to technology-related job cuts, including 700 in Indianapolis. Moreover, the decision to consolidate operations in Indianapolis, while eliminating those in the small town of Huntington, is wholly related to the availability of a 21st-century workforce.

[Black Diamond]

How does a $7m tax break make carrier stay when they said they would save $65m by moving. Something doesn't add up.
Trump threatened to grab them by the pussy if they left.

[pete311]

Trump’s deal with Carrier is an inarguable victory for an administration that hasn’t yet officially begun. It’s not repeatable, though. It doesn’t scale. And unless the President-elect develops a more thorough plan to help Americans adapt to the changing economy, it will be a victory in image only.

https://www.wired.com/2016/11/trump-carrier-plant/

[NightTrain]

Oh, I wouldn't worry, Petey.

He's not even President, yet. Obama already told the Carrier employees it was a done deal and to find work somewhere else and then mocked Trump for saying he'd fix the problem.

Trump made a phone call and Carrier pulled a 180. See what a real leader can do?

[pete311]

Oh, I wouldn't worry, Petey.

He's not even President, yet. Obama already told the Carrier employees it was a done deal and to find work somewhere else and then mocked Trump for saying he'd fix the problem.

Trump made a phone call and Carrier pulled a 180. See what a real leader can do?

What will Trump do when thousands of other companies want the same deal? What will Trump do when those jobs are done by robots in a few years?

[Kathianne]

What will Trump do when thousands of other companies want the same deal? What will Trump do when those jobs are done by robots in a few years?

Lots of ignorance regarding unintended consequences from folks of all persuasions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/29/thanks-to-fight-for-15-minimum-wage-mcdonalds-unveils-job-replacing-self-service-kiosks-nationwide/#f9b83eb762e1


Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

[NightTrain]

What will Trump do when thousands of other companies want the same deal? What will Trump do when those jobs are done by robots in a few years?

I guess you'll just have to be in suspense until he takes the wheel.

In the meantime, you can take comfort in the fact that Trump speaks language that corporations understand and with a simple phone call fixed things after Obama said it was impossible.

Aren't you grateful for President-Elect Trump saving 1,000 jobs for those American workers right before Christmas?

[bullypulpit]

So what's happened here is sleight of hand on the part of Trump and Pence. United Technologies was planning to axe 1400 jobs from Carrier and another 700 from United Technologies Electronic Controls. Trump vowed to save ALL of these jobs. Donnie's deal saves less than half of those jobs. The rest...to Mexico.
During the campaign, Donnie said ""If a company wants to fire their workers in North Carolina or in this country, move to another country and then try to ship their product back into the United States, we will apply a 35% tax to those". Don't see any tariff here. Just a tax break for United Technologies for shipping 1100 jobs to Mexico.
Get used to broken promises. Because that's all you're going to get from Donnie and the plutocrats he's packing his administration with. And y'all voted for him. But you'll never appreciate the irony.

[NightTrain]

So what's happened here is sleight of hand on the part of Trump and Pence. United Technologies was planning to axe 1400 jobs from Carrier and another 700 from United Technologies Electronic Controls. Trump vowed to save ALL of these jobs. Donnie's deal saves less than half of those jobs. The rest...to Mexico.
During the campaign, Donnie said ""If a company wants to fire their workers in North Carolina or in this country, move to another country and then try to ship their product back into the United States, we will apply a 35% tax to those". Don't see any tariff here. Just a tax break for United Technologies for shipping 1100 jobs to Mexico.
Get used to broken promises. Because that's all you're going to get from Donnie and the plutocrats he's packing his administration with. And y'all voted for him. But you'll never appreciate the irony.

Attention, dipshit : He isn't President yet. He can't officially do anything. Get that through your thick skull.

He made them stay with a phone call. That's quite a feat.

[aboutime]

Does anyone know WHICH NAVY bullypulpit served in?

If he is a genuine veteran. I find myself wondering if maybe we met somewhere, sometime during my years in the Navy, when I was assigned to go after AWOL sailors who were trying to get out of the navy...because they didn't know...sailors went to sea.:lame2:

[pete311]

Lots of ignorance regarding unintended consequences from folks of all persuasions:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/29/thanks-to-fight-for-15-minimum-wage-mcdonalds-unveils-job-replacing-self-service-kiosks-nationwide/#f9b83eb762e1

Automation is inevitable with $15/hr or $7.50/hr

[pete311]

Attention, dipshit : He isn't President yet. He can't officially do anything. Get that through your thick skull.

He made them stay with a phone call. That's quite a feat.

No it's called a bribe and t's crony capitalism. The gov deciding which companies win is not free market.

[aboutime]

No it's called a bribe and t's crony capitalism. The gov deciding which companies win is not free market.



pete311. Please help me, and others to find what page that Liberal Made-up, DNC fact is on in your DNC Handbook, and TALKING-POINTS manual.

I have hundreds of those Liberal Lies that have been repeated so often...they work very well, as intended. Just go back and read everything you say here. All we need is the PAGE NUMBER.

[NightTrain]

No it's called a bribe and t's crony capitalism. The gov deciding which companies win is not free market.

Wrong again.

He told them that the 35% tariff imposed on the rebound shipping to America from Mexico would defeat any cost savings enjoyed by hiring Mexicans down in Mexico.

Then let's figure in what the build cost of that factory would be, after it's cost ineffective to even use it.

That's how you get people's attention in the business world, Petey. You arrange things so that they see it your way.

Now, how did your boy Obama do with the whole thing? Yeah, he didn't even try and waved the white flag. Cute, don't you think?

[aboutime]

No it's called a bribe and t's crony capitalism. The gov deciding which companies win is not free market.


pete. Tell us how capitalism, OBAMA STYLE worked when he generated the HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATES since the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930's.

In case you are as unaware as I believe you are. Here is a link you might like to read. And, I didn't make it up. FACTS you may not like...happen to be TRUTH.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/

[bullypulpit]

Attention, dipshit : He isn't President yet. He can't officially do anything. Get that through your thick skull.

He made them stay with a phone call. That's quite a feat.

Ummm...More than half the jobs Donnie said he was gonna save are moving out of the country. There's not gonna be a tariff. Instead, Indiana voters get stuck with the $7 million tax credit United Technologies got for shipping 1100 jobs outta the country. But you keep acting like he's the Second Coming of Christ instead of the grifter that he is.

[jimnyc]

Ummm...More than half the jobs Donnie said he was gonna save are moving out of the country. There's not gonna be a tariff. Instead, Indiana voters get stuck with the $7 million tax credit United Technologies got for shipping 1100 jobs outta the country. But you keep acting like he's the Second Coming of Christ instead of the grifter that he is.

Nice rewording... the money was to have half stay - nopt top have half leave, dumbo. And even then, half staying is 100% better than what the current nitwit accomplished with them. Indiana will pay, and also save 1,000 jobs+, and also add a ton of money into the Indiana economy. THE HORROR!!

[pete311]

pete. Tell us how capitalism, OBAMA STYLE worked when he generated the HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATES since the GREAT DEPRESSION in the 1930's.

In case you are as unaware as I believe you are. Here is a link you might like to read. And, I didn't make it up. FACTS you may not like...happen to be TRUTH.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/02/record-95055000-americans-out-of-the-labor-force/


unemployment rate is 4.6%, lowest since 2007, what are you smoking

[pete311]

Wrong again.

He told them that the 35% tariff imposed on the rebound shipping to America from Mexico would defeat any cost savings enjoyed by hiring Mexicans down in Mexico.

Then let's figure in what the build cost of that factory would be, after it's cost ineffective to even use it.

That's how you get people's attention in the business world, Petey. You arrange things so that they see it your way.

Now, how did your boy Obama do with the whole thing? Yeah, he didn't even try and waved the white flag. Cute, don't you think?

source, all I read is about the $7m tax break

[jimnyc]

source, all I read is about the $7m tax break

Take text within folks posts, go to Google, search.

[pete311]

Take text within folks posts, go to Google, search.
during his campaign. you know carrier is still sending jobs to mexico, over half. so.... where is the tariff?

[NightTrain]

Ummm...More than half the jobs Donnie said he was gonna save are moving out of the country. There's not gonna be a tariff. Instead, Indiana voters get stuck with the $7 million tax credit United Technologies got for shipping 1100 jobs outta the country. But you keep acting like he's the Second Coming of Christ instead of the grifter that he is.

Think so?

I think I'll take Trump's word for it over yours. So far he's been right on everything.

So far you've been wrong on everything. Not a hard decision.



Got any more stupid predictions I can quote you on later? You 4 retards have been a goldmine for entertainment.

[NightTrain]

during his campaign. you know carrier is still sending jobs to mexico, over half. so.... where is the tariff?

Is he President yet, idiot?

[jimnyc]

during his campaign. you know carrier is still sending jobs to mexico, over half. so.... where is the tariff?

He can talk on the phone and make such deals to get them to remain....

Do you expect him to impose tariffs and such when he is just a regular citizen?

[pete311]

He can talk on the phone and make such deals to get them to remain....

Do you expect him to impose tariffs and such when he is just a regular citizen?

So he will make the $7m deal with carrier and then also put a 35% tariff on them?

[jimnyc]

So he will make the $7m deal with carrier and then also put a 35% tariff on them?

You know the deal and you want to wiggle to make it sound bad.

They were taking ALL of these jobs to Mexico. Half of them are now staying in Indiana, as per a deal he negotiated between Indiana and the company. Say what you will, but no matter how you slice it, it saves. More jobs staying, more income staying, more money spent in our economy staying.

As far as what tariffs will be imposed on which products, coming from Mexico or elsewhere, I would imagine we need to wait until he is in office to find out.

But EVEN IF no tariff imposed, the jobs were still saved, and the money stays, and the money to be spent stays.

I'm personally hoping, that we see increased tariffs on products coming from places where we are losing money right now. Whether that be carrier, or anyone else, I think we should make tariffs more fair in comparison to any tariffs we pay to said country.

But bully and yourself want to scream and point out that this only applies to half of the workers. You guys do realize that half is more than none, right? And that the current leader of our country scoffed at this and couldn't care less if they left or not?

If there are 1,000 employees, and say they make shit wages at like 40k per year for such a company, that's $40 million in the first year in wages spent. It would still be 20 million if they made 20k per year, 3x the amount that the deal is for. Then start adding up the years.

All you guys want to do is bash it no matter what, when even a +10 on jobs would be better than where it stood with them now!! Jobs were literally saved.

#WINNING!!!!!

[Black Diamond]

You know the deal and you want to wiggle to make it sound bad.

They were taking ALL of these jobs to Mexico. Half of them are now staying in Indiana, as per a deal he negotiated between Indiana and the company. Say what you will, but no matter how you slice it, it saves. More jobs staying, more income staying, more money spent in our economy staying.

As far as what tariffs will be imposed on which products, coming from Mexico or elsewhere, I would imagine we need to wait until he is in office to find out.

But EVEN IF no tariff imposed, the jobs were still saved, and the money stays, and the money to be spent stays.

I'm personally hoping, that we see increased tariffs on products coming from places where we are losing money right now. Whether that be carrier, or anyone else, I think we should make tariffs more fair in comparison to any tariffs we pay to said country.

But bully and yourself want to scream and point out that this only applies to half of the workers. You guys do realize that half is more than none, right? And that the current leader of our country scoffed at this and couldn't care less if they left or not?

If there are 1,000 employees, and say they make shit wages at like 40k per year for such a company, that's $40 million in the first year in wages spent. It would still be 20 million if they made 20k per year, 3x the amount that the deal is for. Then start adding up the years.

All you guys want to do is bash it no matter what, when even a +10 on jobs would be better than where it stood with them now!! Jobs were literally saved.

#WINNING!!!!!
I think there will be a lot of negotiating and splitting the difference. Trump will be a positive; keeping some of the jobs here that would have left had hillary won. Every bit helps.

[pete311]

You know the deal and you want to wiggle to make it sound bad.



Alert me when Donald and Ivanka bring production of all their name brand goods to US manufacturers. Until they do that, this Carrier thing is just a sideshow.

[pete311]

Is he President yet, idiot?

I don't see the tariff as part of the deal. It was just a threat made during the campaign. you make a lot of insults, cool how I can get under your skin so easy

[pete311]

Hey look guys, it's your favorite bimbo. looks like she agrees with me
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139

[jimnyc]

Alert me when Donald and Ivanka bring production of all their name brand goods to US manufacturers. Until they do that, this Carrier thing is just a sideshow.

"I lost the debate so now I will try to change the subject and point at something else"

This just makes more winning for me!

So now, even if they saved every job, and less money - it doesn't matter, none of it mattered unless Trump brings his own things to the USA. Kinda lame, Pete. So why not point that out from the get go and say that the Carrier deal was only a sideshow? Because your crap didn't pan out, everyone sees that this was a good deal, and now you would like to ignore that and start on something else. You LOSE.

And Ivanka is not the president. She is more than entitled to do her own thing of her own choosing, and it has nothing to do with her father. I HOPE she puts even more abroad, just to piss off lame liberals like yourself.

[jimnyc]

Hey look guys, it's your favorite bimbo. looks like she agrees with me
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139

I didn't see your mother there, insult man.

[jimnyc]

I don't see the tariff as part of the deal. It was just a threat made during the campaign. you make a lot of insults, cool how I can get under your skin so easy

He doesn't have that authority yet, dumbass.

[aboutime]

I am now fully convinced bully, and pete are related, joined at the vacuum that combines the skin we call EARS to allow for the flow of perfect stupidity.

http://icansayit.com/images/dumbdumboys.jpg

[pete311]

And Ivanka is not the president. She is more than entitled to do her own thing of her own choosing, and it has nothing to do with her father. I HOPE she puts even more abroad, just to piss off lame liberals like yourself.

same mentality again of hurting the country just to stick it to people you don't agree with. how patriotic

[pete311]

He doesn't have that authority yet, dumbass.

Why do you guys keep repeating this? It wasn't reported as any part of the deal. Him being preisdent is of no relavance.

[jimnyc]

same mentality again of hurting the country just to stick it to people you don't agree with. how patriotic

Pete, you and Bully come here and act like a couple of pieces of shit. You toss an insult at all of us while posting an article - and then expect a reasonable response from people?

Fuck off.

[aboutime]

same mentality again of hurting the country just to stick it to people you don't agree with. how patriotic


Wow pete. You're really funny. I have an early Christmas present for you....Your very own Sign...http://icansayit.com/images/lastword.jpg

And everyone understands how Liberals like yourself must always share.Liberally.

[jimnyc]

Why do you guys keep repeating this? It wasn't reported as any part of the deal. Him being preisdent is of no relavance.

So then why do you keep asking about tariffs? it IS of relevance, as he cannot do anything with tariffs as a citizen. Perhaps he plans on using tariffs, as stated, once he IS president and we see products coming from Mexico to the states. And hopefully from other places too.

The deal as reported is a measly 7 million dollars over 10 years. It keeps 1,000 jobs here. Money from them gets spent in our economy.

If you don't like how things are, his plans, what he's planning to do for the next few years - take their places and go to Mexico. You won't be missed.

[jimnyc]

And Palin disagrees? OH NO!!! Now what do we do? What does Trump do? IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!

She'll survive. Likely won't be the last thing they disagree on.

And I STILL would love to see her in as the VA position, or interior.

[Balu]

Trump threatened to grab them by the pussy if they left.

For their pleasure only, I hope... http://s19.rimg.info/80e2c767d381e35e12b524fcc7b138b0.gif (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-1237706247.html)

[pete311]

Pete, you and Bully come here and act like a couple of pieces of shit. You toss an insult at all of us while posting an article - and then expect a reasonable response from people?

Fuck off.

No, it's you and NightTrain slinging insults.

[NightTrain]

No, it's you and NightTrain slinging insults.

Hey, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that bitch up.

If you two ass clowns think you're being slick with your constant trolling, think again. Every time you get thumped on one bullshit topic you merrily start another and bail from the one you were cornered on - you're not here to debate, you're here to cry about losing the election.

Trying to smear the man that single handedly destroyed the Democrats isn't going to work, but it's fun to watch you attempt it. It's due to your low IQ that you even engage it, since neither of you have won a single debate on this board, ever.

Soon the pleasure we all enjoy with your antics will wear off and we'll start moving your bullshit to the cage, where trolling belongs.

So until you're ready to actually debate, you'll get trolled right back. And laughed at, because that's what normal Americans do to butthurt moonbats. :thumb:

[pete311]

So then why do you keep asking about tariffs?

NT brought it up like it was part of the deal or Trump threatened them during negociations. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but it wasn't reported. It was only reported during the campaign. That is all I was saying.

[pete311]

Hey, if the shoe fits, feel free to lace that bitch up.

If you two ass clowns think you're being slick with your constant trolling, think again.

Disagreeing is not trolling

[NightTrain]

Disagreeing is not trolling

Here's the thing, Petey : There are 1,000 families that you Democrats abandoned right there in the Rust Belt that Trump saved with a simple phone call and tactics.

Obama had already told them to find different jobs (in the green sector!); it was a done deal.

Now that Trump DID in fact save those jobs before he's even got any official clout, you liberals are moaning about it instead of celebrating this small victory for working families.

Not only are the usual MSM outlets bemoaning it, so are you moonbats, universally.

If you hadn't lost the Swing States for good before the election, you sure as hell have now. Do you think that every single working family isn't watching what's going on and seeing who is REALLY fighting for them?

You'd better hope and pray that the illegal population triples in size in the next couple years because you guys have irreparably destroyed what's left of your middle class base.

[gabosaurus]

So until you're ready to actually debate, you'll get trolled right back. And laughed at, because that's what normal Americans do to butthurt moonbats. :thumb:

What would you know about normal Americans? You live in Alaska. But you would know about "moonbats." Since there is a lot of moon to howl at. :poke:

[NightTrain]

What would you know about normal Americans? You live in Alaska. But you would know about "moonbats." Since there is a lot of moon to howl at. :poke:

Did one of your 'students' write that for you? :rolleyes:

I picked a winner from the beginning. I think our respective track records speak volumes as to who has the right idea as to what America wants.

What do you think of that?

Checkmate, moonbat.

[gabosaurus]

I think our respective track records speak volumes as to who has the right idea as to what America wants.


Very true. I have always been right. You are quite delusional and always have been. There, I ran circles around you, logic wise.

[NightTrain]

Very true. I have always been right. You are quite delusional and always have been. There, I ran circles around you, logic wise.

Obtuse suits you very well. It's not far off the mark in reality for you.

[pete311]

Now that Trump DID in fact save those jobs before he's even got any official clout, you liberals are moaning about it instead of celebrating this small victory for working families.


Saved for now, but full automation is enevitble and the more you mess with free market capitalism the more it will bite you later on. We need a revolution. Manufactoring is gone and never coming back. We lost 2 million manufactions jobs. These people will need to find new jobs in a few years any way. You can't protect people in a dying industry. They must adjust. Isn't that what you tell our blacks in the ghetto's? Pull yourself up by the bootstrap. Educate yourself and work 2 or 3 jobs if you have to.

[NightTrain]

Saved for now, but full automation is enevitble and the more you mess with free market capitalism the more it will bite you later on. We need a revolution. Manufactoring is gone and never coming back. We lost 2 million manufactions jobs. These people will need to find new jobs in a few years any way. You can't protect people in a dying industry. They must adjust. Isn't that what you tell our blacks in the ghetto's? Pull yourself up by the bootstrap. Educate yourself and work 2 or 3 jobs if you have to.

Right, because all those factories being built down in Mexico are fully automated, right? :laugh:

Keep up the good work, Petey. You and your fellow travelers are doing a 1st class job at destroying what's left of your political hopes for the future.

[Black Diamond]

Here's the thing, Petey : There are 1,000 families that you Democrats abandoned right there in the Rust Belt that Trump saved with a simple phone call and tactics.

Obama had already told them to find different jobs (in the green sector!); it was a done deal.

Now that Trump DID in fact save those jobs before he's even got any official clout, you liberals are moaning about it instead of celebrating this small victory for working families.

Not only are the usual MSM outlets bemoaning it, so are you moonbats, universally.

If you hadn't lost the Swing States for good before the election, you sure as hell have now. Do you think that every single working family isn't watching what's going on and seeing who is REALLY fighting for them?

You'd better hope and pray that the illegal population triples in size in the next couple years because you guys have irreparably destroyed what's left of your middle class base.
if they stay in California and New Mexico, we still win. We may have to campaign a little harder in Texas. :cool:

[NightTrain]

if they stay in California and New Mexico, we still win. We may have to campaign a little harder in Texas. :cool:

Not to worry, we have Gabby running around in Texas spreading the misery for the democrats. Undoubtedly she'll convert thousands to the GOP all by herself. :thumb:

[sundaydriver]

I thought the premise was to punish companies for leaving, not bribe them to stay?

Carrier certainly isn't staying or spending 16 mil. to upgrade another existing plant for the measly 7 mil. in state offered incentives, that's for sure. Carrier previously turned down what the city & state incentives offered, so why take it now? It all comes down to the government contracts and was it a stick or carrot that was offered? I'm going with the carrot. More corporate welfare with the taxpayers paying the bill to help subsidize a defense contractor the parent company UT. A quick check will show that UT is a profitable company and even more so with about 800 mil. in state & federal tax incentive it has received for it's businesses since 1993.

[NightTrain]

I thought the premise was to punish companies for leaving, not bribe them to stay?

Carrier certainly isn't staying or spending 16 mil. to upgrade another existing plant for the measly 7 mil. in state offered incentives, that's for sure. Carrier previously turned down what the city & state incentives offered, so why take it now? It all comes down to the government contracts and was it a stick or carrot that was offered? I'm going with the carrot. More corporate welfare with the taxpayers paying the bill to help subsidize a defense contractor the parent company UT. A quick check will show that UT is a profitable company and even more so with about 800 mil. in state & federal tax incentive it has received for it's businesses since 1993.

Or could it simply be the case that Carrier, like pretty much everyone else, expected a Hillary win? There were no punitive measures to ship jobs to Mexico in that scenario.

Could it be that they believed Trump when he said he would impose a 35% import tax upon all air conditioning units shipped back to the USA, prompting them do the math and oblige them to take up Indiana's previously rejected tax incentives to stay?

I strongly think that this is the case and that Trump told them in his phone call that he wasn't joking.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Saved for now, but full automation is enevitble and the more you mess with free market capitalism the more it will bite you later on. We need a revolution. Manufactoring is gone and never coming back. We lost 2 million manufactions jobs. These people will need to find new jobs in a few years any way. You can't protect people in a dying industry. They must adjust. Isn't that what you tell our blacks in the ghetto's? Pull yourself up by the bootstrap. Educate yourself and work 2 or 3 jobs if you have to.

Automated factories can be built and ran here.. Except for the fact that the globalists want them in foreign nations in order to use slave labor(much,much cheaper hourly pay).
That truth,that reality betrays the liberal championed lie that they are for the under privileged little people here in USA.
FOR GOING FULL BORE IN SENDING ALL THOSE FACTORIES OVERSEAS SHAFTED MILLIONS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS!
It also quite dramatically weakened this nation,something the lib/dems do not give a damn about if they think it furthers their damn insane ideology!
You, Sundaydriver and Bully are all dunces about what it takes for this nation to survive--for you are all liberal-driven fools IMHO...
And when your stupidity endangers me and mine, you had better consider that millions thus affected may one day decide to put an abrupt and very decisive halt to that ffing insanity.
We will not sit idly by, while morons endanger the lives of those we love..
This election should have taught you idiots that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep on in the future acting as fools and the lesson taught you morons may just be far, far more severe.
Attack a man's family --expect to some day have to pay a damn heavy price...
You dumbasses should consider what just happened this election was your damn warning IMHO.-Tyr

[sundaydriver]

Or could it simply be the case that Carrier, like pretty much everyone else, expected a Hillary win? There were no punitive measures to ship jobs to Mexico in that scenario.

Could it be that they believed Trump when he said he would impose a 35% import tax upon all air conditioning units shipped back to the USA, prompting them do the math and oblige them to take up Indiana's previously rejected tax incentives to stay?

I strongly think that this is the case and that Trump told them in his phone call that he wasn't joking.

Let's say it was the threat of Tariff's being enacted was the cause for UT to back down., what would the outcome be? Hmm, a few billion more in cost for consumers, higher production costs as some parts are manufactured overseas resulting in more cost to the consumer, and finally less sales for companies as their product is now too expensive resulting in more job losses, wow it just spirals!

[NightTrain]

Let's say it was the threat of Tariff's being enacted was the cause for UT to back down., what would the outcome be? Hmm, a few billion more in cost for consumers, higher production costs as some parts are manufactured overseas resulting in more cost to the consumer, and finally less sales for companies as their product is now too expensive resulting in more job losses, wow it just spirals!

How is it going to be billions more to produce?

It's the exact same cost as they've BEEN doing it for. I don't get why people don't understand that.

[jimnyc]

How is it going to be billions more to produce?

It's the exact same cost as they've BEEN doing it for. I don't get why people don't understand that.

I think he's stating that such tariffs would then mean billions more in consumer costs, and I disagree, on the amount. Sure, prices will go up some, and that's another reason for companies to decide where they would like to keep their businesses. Ain't no different than us having a company here, and then paying tariffs when we place products elsewhere. I'm assuming, since these companies still exist, that these consumers are still paying for these products, however the American companies decide to structure costs.

Or, we can forget tariffs I suppose, if other countries are willing to do the same, or negotiate some.

[sundaydriver]

How is it going to be billions more to produce?

It's the exact same cost as they've BEEN doing it for. I don't get why people don't understand that.

Tariffs would effect prices of imported components and materials required for completion of manufacturing products. Figure 10% extra cost per item.

[sundaydriver]

I think he's stating that such tariffs would then mean billions more in consumer costs, and I disagree, on the amount. Sure, prices will go up some, and that's another reason for companies to decide where they would like to keep their businesses. Ain't no different than us having a company here, and then paying tariffs when we place products elsewhere. I'm assuming, since these companies still exist, that these consumers are still paying for these products, however the American companies decide to structure costs.

Or, we can forget tariffs I suppose, if other countries are willing to do the same, or negotiate some.

You know, tariffs can go both ways. Remember when Obama put a tariff on Chinese made tires 6 or 7 years ago and the Chinese reciprocated with tariffs on some of our exports to them? We saved several hundred American jobs worth 50 mil. to our economy and paid a price of almost 900k in consumer extra costs for each job saved.

[NightTrain]

Tariffs would effect prices of imported components and materials required for completion of manufacturing products. Figure 10% extra cost per item.

I understand that, but why does it have to be an across-the-board tariff?

Parts and components can be taxed less than complete units. You're certainly not going to add a tariff on raw materials.

[sundaydriver]

[QUOTE=Tyr-Ziu Saxnot;846071[QUOTE]]Automated factories can be built and ran here.. Except for the fact that the globalists want them in foreign nations in order to use slave labor(much,much cheaper hourly pay). That truth,that reality betrays the liberal championed lie that they are for the under privileged little people here in USA.
FOR GOING FULL BORE IN SENDING ALL THOSE FACTORIES OVERSEAS SHAFTED MILLIONS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS!
It also quite dramatically weakened this nation,something the lib/dems do not give a damn about if they think it furthers their damn insane ideology!
You, Sundaydriver and Bully are all dunces about what it takes for this nation to survive--for you are all liberal-driven fools IMHO...
And when your stupidity endangers me and mine, you had better consider that millions thus affected may one day decide to put an abrupt and very decisive halt to that ffing insanity.
We will not sit idly by, while morons endanger the lives of those we love..
This election should have taught you idiots that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep on in the future acting as fools and the lesson taught you morons may just be far, far more severe.
Attack a man's family --expect to some day have to pay a damn heavy price...
You dumbasses should consider what just happened this election was your damn warning IMHO.-Tyr[/QUOT

Why do you even care? Everyone knows that when you have no education, skills, or ambition, you just drop out and collect welfare or disability like your neighbors. Arkansas ranks 38th in population and 3rd in the number of persons collecting disability. Ohh wait, it's obvious that you haven't worked in years and have admitted to collecting disability. Still living the Arkansas life?

Save your hubris & threats for someone that's a lot more easily fooled!

[sundaydriver]

I understand that, but why does it have to be an across-the-board tariff?

Parts and components can be taxed less than complete units. You're certainly not going to add a tariff on raw materials.

Trump was talking of a 35% tariff on Mexican goods and a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. What will happen to our price for raw materials that we can only get from China and tariff's would effect the cost of components imported to complete and assemble a product here.

[sundaydriver]

I understand that, but why does it have to be an across-the-board tariff?

Parts and components can be taxed less than complete units. You're certainly not going to add a tariff on raw materials.

Trump was talking of a 35% tariff on Mexican goods and a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. What will happen to our price for raw materials that we can only get from China and tariff's would effect the cost of components imported to complete and assemble a product here.

While working at 4 foreign owed multi nation companies there are things the company reminded us of fairly often. You will end up having on average 7 different jobs in your career through no choice of your own, and the jobs will be where the product demand is.

[aboutime]

Trump was talking of a 35% tariff on Mexican goods and a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. What will happen to our price for raw materials that we can only get from China and tariff's would effect the cost of components imported to complete and assemble a product here.


sundaydriver. You really need to do some soul searching, and investigations on your own on this topic. Seems that ALL YOU WANTED TO HEAR, or READ were the numbers 35%, and 45% that you instantly declare, Trump will be punishing American business's for if they are adopted.
Your problem is. If you believe our nation is DEPENDENT upon raw materials from China. You really haven't bothered to verify your statement at all.
Here's a little help for you from nothing but a High School grad, And veteran of 30 years military service...

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/09/free-markets-and-national-defense-us-import-dependence-on-china
Abstract: Americans buy a huge quantity of goods— ranging from audio-video equipment to clothing—made, or at least assembled, in China. The vast amounts involved raise the possibility of U.S. dependence on China. Heritage Foundation Asia economist Derek Scissors looked at the numbers and found that Chinese imports to the U.S. are concentrated in areas with little or no strategic value. This does not mean that dependence on China, or on other economic partners, is impossible. Dr. Scissors presents six principles to identify or rule out dependence and to guide policy in limiting or mitigating any future dependence. If the job is done right, Americans can enjoy free trade and national security.

Systematic scrutiny of the huge volume of U.S. imports from the People’s Republic of China (PRC) reveals no meaningful American dependence on China. For a large number of goods, China is indeed America’s leading foreign supplier. When put in the context of total U.S.-based consumption, however, that weight lightens. More striking, imports from the PRC are concentrated in areas with little or no strategic value. To guard against future dependence, and to protect against uncertainty caused by inadequate data, there are reasonable steps that can be taken to fully protect America’s defense capabilities.

Commitment to the free market and a strong national defense are almost always complementary. The ability to freely import materials, products, skills, and technology cuts costs and improves the quality of defense. But the complementary relationship between free markets and strong defense is not so clear when considering American rivals, such as China.

[Bilgerat]

All I have to say is:

https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15267517_752370478253249_4842179190452874949_n.jpg ?oh=315ce4e0bc52dcae598830d68f739d4d&oe=58B7808E

[gabosaurus]

I want to know how Trump plans to bring jobs back without adding to the national debt. Which Republicans are supposedly against.
Economists have stated that if Trump goes through with his previously stated schedule of tariffs, it would plunge the country into a recession.
I doubt Congress will approve any of that.

[aboutime]

I want to know how Trump plans to bring jobs back without adding to the national debt. Which Republicans are supposedly against.
Economists have stated that if Trump goes through with his previously stated schedule of tariffs, it would plunge the country into a recession.
I doubt Congress will approve any of that.


gabby. Do you know what the concept of economics, and counting mean?

You are so hung-up on the Democrat, Liberal Lies that have been repeated so many times, and for so many years. You have no concept about how lower taxes for working people that are WORKING, allows them to SPEND more of their OWN money, which increases the productivity, and profits of companies, small businesses enough to allow them to HIRE more WORKERS, who will...in turn have more money to spend in the GROWING economy that PREVENTS a recession from taking shape.

It's really simple, but all of you always say cutting taxes hurts the economy.
Actually, in a way...you are right. IT HURTS THE ECONOMY, and POCKETBOOKS of politicians who need to build a bigger government...that TAKES more than they GIVE OUT.

[gabosaurus]

Wells, let's see what is happening with Carrier...

Turns out the company is keeping 800 jobs. With the help of state funding and a 5 percent price increase on products.
But they are still sending 600 jobs to Mexico. Strange that was not included in the original news release.
What else is Carrier not telling us?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/02/news/companies/trump-carrier-plant-mexico/index.html?iid=EL

[jimnyc]

Wells, let's see what is happening with Carrier...

Turns out the company is keeping 800 jobs. With the help of state funding and a 5 percent price increase on products.
But they are still sending 600 jobs to Mexico. Strange that was not included in the original news release.
What else is Carrier not telling us?

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/02/news/companies/trump-carrier-plant-mexico/index.html?iid=EL

It was right from the very get go that this deal was only saving half of the jobs.

[NightTrain]

Trump was talking of a 35% tariff on Mexican goods and a 45% tariff on Chinese goods. What will happen to our price for raw materials that we can only get from China and tariff's would effect the cost of components imported to complete and assemble a product here.

While working at 4 foreign owed multi nation companies there are things the company reminded us of fairly often. You will end up having on average 7 different jobs in your career through no choice of your own, and the jobs will be where the product demand is.

Sorry, I missed your reply until now.

I'm not aware of any imports from China as far as raw materials, and I'm not finding anything on the interwebs. Indeed, the reverse seems to be true - we supply raw materials to china by the literal boatload. According to this website, China doesn't export any raw materials :

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TX.VAL.AGRI.ZS.UN

Further, the EU and USA have bitterly complained that China has unfairly taxed exports of their raw materials, contrary to what was agreed to when they joined the WTO. This 5% - 20% tax gives China manufacturers a cheaper and more reliable supply - which is what Trump has been saying for a while now. "Unfair practices" charges leveled at China for the last few years - and it was the EU that first raised the charge :

https://www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/eu-launches-wto-action-against-china-raw-material-export-duties/

Red Dog Mine, now the 2nd largest Zinc and Lead mine in the world, ships to the highest bidder, which is overwhelmingly a Chinese destination. Coal and Oil almost always are destined for Asia as well, we ship a lot of it overseas. That's because the manufacturers are now over in those regions instead of here and the demand is much higher than here, so they're willing to pay more.

Reestablishing American manufacturing industries is important to our overall economy. We can't be a prosperous nation of Uber drivers & landscapers.

And for those that claim that you simply can't be competitive by building products in America, I'd point you to Toyota's undeniable success building their vehicles right here with more American components than the Big 3.

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/06/23/made-in-usa-a-toyota-is-most-american-car/

[gabosaurus]

It was right from the very get go that this deal was only saving half of the jobs.

According to the workers union that met with Trump before the election, he promised to save ALL their jobs. But this is probably more "he said, we said" thing than anything else.

[NightTrain]

According to the workers union that met with Trump before the election, he promised to save ALL their jobs. But this is probably more "he said, we said" thing than anything else.

Take note of the party that's actually fighting for American jobs and the middle class.

Then take note at which party is pissing and moaning about it.

Not going to be a hard choice for 70% of America when 2018 rolls around, is it?

[sundaydriver]

Sorry, I missed your reply until now.

I'm not aware of any imports from China as far as raw materials, and I'm not finding anything on the interwebs. Indeed, the reverse seems to be true - we supply raw materials to china by the literal boatload. According to this website, China doesn't export any raw materials :

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TX.VAL.AGRI.ZS.UN

[QUOTE]Further, the EU and USA have bitterly complained that China has unfairly taxed exports of their raw materials, contrary to what was agreed to when they joined the WTO. This 5% - 20% tax gives China manufacturers a cheaper and more reliable supply - which is what Trump has been saying for a while now. "Unfair practices" charges leveled at China for the last few years - and it was the EU that first raised the charge

Rare earth minerals are used in smartphones, hybrid vehicles, missile systems, medical devices and other electronic products. China controls about 95% of global rare earths production, and holds half the world's reserves of these metals, according to U.S. think tank National Center for Policy Analysis.Jun 5, 2015


cerium. samarium · lanthanum. neodymium. A rare earth element (REE) or rare earth metal (REM), as defined by IUPAC, is one of a set of seventeen chemical elements in the periodic table, specifically the fifteen lanthanides, as well as scandium and yttrium.

http://www.mining.com/us-remains-almost-entirely-dependent-china-rare-earths/

We do export a shitload of raw materials and agriculture to China, but they still have some very rare materials that we and the rest of the world need and don't have and they make the most of the situation.

In a process I was involved with for many years we used Palladium as a catalyst with the only source being Russia. We used to order 20 or 30 kg. at a time. Todays price, $730/oz.

[pete311]

Take note of the party that's actually fighting for American jobs and the middle class.

Then take note at which party is pissing and moaning about it.

Not going to be a hard choice for 70% of America when 2018 rolls around, is it?

It's a sideshow. Trump is a marketer. How many jobs did Obama save in the auto bailout?

[jimnyc]

It's a sideshow. Trump is a marketer. How many jobs did Obama save in the auto bailout?

How many billions did he give them? How many billions did the taxpayer lose in that deal?

[aboutime]

It's a sideshow. Trump is a marketer. How many jobs did Obama save in the auto bailout?


pete. OBAMA did not save any jobs in the auto bailout. He paid the Leaders of the Unions...The United Auto Workers what the rest of us would call EXTORTION, or BLACKMAIL funds that Obama and company stole from WE THE PEOPLE, and our TREASURY.

Just for you pete. Truth is. Obama Nationalized the Auto Industry.

https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670

Nationalization, or nationalisation, is the process of transforming private assets into public assets by bringing them under the public ownership of a national government or state. ... By contrast, nationalization does not necessarily imply social ownership and the restructuring of the economic system.

Before you put your fingers in motion here pete. You should at least...try to put your mind in GEAR.

[global93]

yes