Trump denounces flag burning

[jimnyc]

I agree with him. And I agree with punishments and fines. I'm all for freedom of speech as folks now, but I don't see this as "speech" in any way, shape or form. It would likely never happen of course, as the SC has already addressed this, and I can't imagine that changing, even with a conservative leaning court - but I wish they would. And I know some Democrats feel similarly.

It is funny watching the liberals go crazy over this! They again calling for him to be impeached and stating this proves it! LOL Of course no mention of the democrats for it, and that were for it and what not. Hypocritical dumbasses!

-----

Trump denounces flag burning, Twitter points out it is constitutional

Although the Supreme Court has declared flag burning to be a constitutionally protected form of free speech, Donald Trump said Tuesday he still wants to make the practice illegal.


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump

Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

"Flag burning is completely ridiculous and I think you know that and I think the vast majority of Americans would agree," his spokesman Jason Miller said in contentious interview with CNN Tuesday when he was asked about Trump's tweet.

"But legal," host Chris Cuomo interjected.

"Flag burning should be illegal, it's completely despicable" Miller continued.

It's not known what inspired Trump's condemnation of flag burning, or whether he will call on Congress to attempt a new law banning it.

While the Supreme Court has upheld flag burning, Trump will have at least one appointment to that body and has a chance to alter the court's ideological direction.

Civil liberties groups denounced Trump's flag burning statement, especially his suggestion that offenders could lose citizenship.

“The idea that the government could not only censor someone for engaging in political speech, but actually revoke a protester’s U.S. citizenship as a punishment for political speech is unconstitutional and fundamentally un-American," said Lee Rowland, senior staff attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union.

Rest here - http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/29/donald-trump-flag-burning-supreme-court/94593636/

[Kathianne]

I've said time and again, they have the right to burn the flag or any other despicable act. Of course there likely will be repercussions for doing so in public and anyone involved will appear before a jury of their peers.

I think though that as a principled matter, everyone should consider that the same first amendment that protects the free speech of flag burners, is the same that over turned Citizen's United.

[jimnyc]

I've said time and again, they have the right to burn the flag or any other despicable act. Of course there likely will be repercussions for doing so in public and anyone involved will appear before a jury of their peers.

I think though that as a principled matter, everyone should consider that the same first amendment that protects the free speech of flag burners, is the same that over turned Citizen's United.

I think flag burning should be the one thing I can think of that should not be protected. Or of not fined/jailed - make it then therefore legal and no repercussions, that if someone else is present, they get to beat you and place you in the hospital. :) Or maybe save the fine and jail, and send them straight to deportation and loss of citizenship. :) Yep, I feel that strongly about it.

[Kathianne]

I think flag burning should be the one thing I can think of that should not be protected. Or of not fined/jailed - make it then therefore legal and no repercussions, that if someone else is present, they get to beat you and place you in the hospital. :) Or maybe save the fine and jail, and send them straight to deportation and loss of citizenship. :) Yep, I feel that strongly about it.

Have you heard of anyone being forced to pay a huge fine or being jailed for beating up a flag burner? Mind you, 'beating up' in the sense of smacking around, not permanent damage.

[aboutime]

SO IS THIS...http://icansayit.com/images/burnflagwrap.jpg

[Elessar]

Have you heard of anyone being forced to pay a huge fine or being jailed for beating up a flag burner? Mind you, 'beating up' in the sense of smacking around, not permanent damage.

I guess that if I snatched a flag away from a flag-burner, I might be held responsible for denying
their 'free speech' rights, while exercising my own.

Shakes his head.

Yet do we see conservatives burning or tearing down Mexican flags (example)?

Nope! Not very much at all. It is the looney liberals that perform these acts of
burning the United States colors.

[Kathianne]

I guess that if I snatched a flag away from a flag-burner, I might be held responsible for denying
their 'free speech' rights, while exercising my own.

Shakes his head.

Yet do we see conservatives burning or tearing down Mexican flags (example)?

Nope! Not very much at all. It is the looney liberals that perform these acts of
burning the United States colors.

Let's say you grabbed a flag from flag burner or grabbed it and put out the fire? He bought it and was on public property. It's happened many times, anyone find a arrest and large fine for denying his 1st amendment rights? A case where someone intervened with flag treatment and threw punches? Again, I'd be interested in finding any arrests, convictions.

It's weird what police and DA's do in these cases, no? I think it's discretionary power?

[Bilgerat]

Let's say you grabbed a flag from flag burner or grabbed it and put out the fire? He bought it and was on public property. It's happened many times, anyone find a arrest and large fine for denying his 1st amendment rights? A case where someone intervened with flag treatment and threw punches? Again, I'd be interested in finding any arrests, convictions.

It's weird what police and DA's do in these cases, no? I think it's discretionary power?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJe2Ew-rhx8

[hjmick]

You all know me. Know how I earn livin'...


Wait... That's one of Quint's speeches from JAWS...


By now you've all figured that while I'm no true liberal, I'm not exactly as conservative as a lot of you. Generally I see myself as pragmatic, a moderately conservative pragmatist. Sure, I don't take issue with some liberal POVs like some folks, that's just the pragmatist in me. Bigger fish to fry and all that...


That being said...


The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that burning the flag of the United States of America is protected speech under the First Amendment. I can't say that I disagree with the decision. Save form shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre, I'm of the opinion that very little speech should be off limits.

Now, I do think that burning the flag is disrespectful and an extremely poor way to express one's feeling. I think it is borderline reprehensible. But I feel the same way about speech you can find at Stormfront or in a KKK flyer. I would not seek to have their voices silenced and, despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with their opinions and the things they, and despite the fact that speak out against the most ardent and offensive racist, I would also defend to the death their right to hold and voice their opinions.

Would that it came to pass that the burning of the flag was no longer protected speech, and one could be jailed, fined, or lose their citizenship because of doing so, I might just have to take mine (made in America) to the middle of my street and set a flame to it.

The rights granted citizens of this country by our Constitution aren't perfect (but they're damn close) and most are double edged (not everyone will take advantage of them they you might). All are more fragile than we know...






That's just my opinion. I could be wrong...

[jimnyc]

Have you heard of anyone being forced to pay a huge fine or being jailed for beating up a flag burner? Mind you, 'beating up' in the sense of smacking around, not permanent damage.

No, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone beat the crap out of one! I've seen many get threatened, and some having the flags taken away.

I'm all for protecting the flag at all costs. It's likely rough to many, and unfathomable, but the flag means the world to me and it literally sickens me when I see scumbags burning it. :(

[CSM]

You all know me. Know how I earn livin'...


Wait... That's one of Quint's speeches from JAWS...


By now you've all figured that while I'm no true liberal, I'm not exactly as conservative as a lot of you. Generally I see myself as pragmatic, a moderately conservative pragmatist. Sure, I don't take issue with some liberal POVs like some folks, that's just the pragmatist in me. Bigger fish to fry and all that...


That being said...


The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that burning the flag of the United States of America is protected speech under the First Amendment. I can't say that I disagree with the decision. Save form shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre, I'm of the opinion that very little speech should be off limits.

Now, I do think that burning the flag is disrespectful and an extremely poor way to express one's feeling. I think it is borderline reprehensible. But I feel the same way about speech you can find at Stormfront or in a KKK flyer. I would not seek to have their voices silenced and, despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with their opinions and the things they, and despite the fact that speak out against the most ardent and offensive racist, I would also defend to the death their right to hold and voice their opinions.

Would that it came to pass that the burning of the flag was no longer protected speech, and one could be jailed, fined, or lose their citizenship because of doing so, I might just have to take mine (made in America) to the middle of my street and set a flame to it.

The rights granted citizens of this country by our Constitution aren't perfect (but they're damn close) and most are double edged (not everyone will take advantage of them they you might). All are more fragile than we know...






That's just my opinion. I could be wrong...

I am very much of the same thought. However, you can bet your last donut that I won't forget such action.

[jimnyc]

You all know me. Know how I earn livin'...


Wait... That's one of Quint's speeches from JAWS...


By now you've all figured that while I'm no true liberal, I'm not exactly as conservative as a lot of you. Generally I see myself as pragmatic, a moderately conservative pragmatist. Sure, I don't take issue with some liberal POVs like some folks, that's just the pragmatist in me. Bigger fish to fry and all that...


That being said...


The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that burning the flag of the United States of America is protected speech under the First Amendment. I can't say that I disagree with the decision. Save form shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre, I'm of the opinion that very little speech should be off limits.

Now, I do think that burning the flag is disrespectful and an extremely poor way to express one's feeling. I think it is borderline reprehensible. But I feel the same way about speech you can find at Stormfront or in a KKK flyer. I would not seek to have their voices silenced and, despite the fact that I vehemently disagree with their opinions and the things they, and despite the fact that speak out against the most ardent and offensive racist, I would also defend to the death their right to hold and voice their opinions.

Would that it came to pass that the burning of the flag was no longer protected speech, and one could be jailed, fined, or lose their citizenship because of doing so, I might just have to take mine (made in America) to the middle of my street and set a flame to it.

The rights granted citizens of this country by our Constitution aren't perfect (but they're damn close) and most are double edged (not everyone will take advantage of them they you might). All are more fragile than we know...






That's just my opinion. I could be wrong...

Now I'm just going to have to kill you for disagreeing with me. LOL Well said though. In theory I agree. But I see it more as an action and less of "speech". I get the difference and where this stands though. I just disagree with the SC on this one, but understand that it is the law. And yup, I also fully understand that are best of the best in the military fought and died to give them that right. And even though they have that right, knowing those best of the best did so, and so many of them are dead - all the more reason I hate such scumbags. It's just something very difficult for me to see and or pass by. If it was literally done in front of me - at the very least that flag will be saved for another day. If you light anything else on fire while in public and you'll get some sort of charge against you for doing so - but light Old Glory on fire in public and it's protected.

I know this is one of those double edged you speak of. It protects freedom of speech at costs that some can't fathom (myself), but that's the beauty of our constitution I suppose.

But in addition to swiping it away, I have to be honest and state that I may be an asshole and take a swipe or a kick as well. I may end up in the clink for the evening, and be wrong for taking away his/her rights, but I think I would feel stronger about protecting the flag than they do about burning the flag.

Commence verbal ass kicking, I can take it!! :)

https://i.imgur.com/aYFRbxE.gif

[aboutime]

No, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone beat the crap out of one! I've seen many get threatened, and some having the flags taken away.

I'm all for protecting the flag at all costs. It's likely rough to many, and unfathomable, but the flag means the world to me and it literally sickens me when I see scumbags burning it. :(


jim. I'd be lying if I didn't say, and feel exactly as you do about our Flag. But we must not lower ourselves to the level of the scumbags who are so ignorant, they think burning our flag, or taking it down from a College flagpole is an educated thing to do....throwing spitballs at the very Constitution, and Flag that protects them.

Bottom line for me. As an AMERICAN FIRST. Though I despise, and am hurt by what those idiots are doing because they HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT. We must all remember. When you lower yourself to their level. They win, and we do not.

It's like the proverb I learned long ago from my Dad. "Nothing makes anyone who WANTS TO ARGUE madder than...WHEN YOU SAY NOTHING, and JUST WALK AWAY.
That makes THEM the ones who stay angry, mad, and dumb. While YOU go on with Life.
Just like OCA. He really hates it when we won't argue with him. He loses all credibility with his endless antics, stupidity, and ignorance....as long as WE don't argue with him.
As for me, and OCA. If he thinks I have come this far in life without hearing his rants, accusations, and dumbness. He's the one who's lost.

[hjmick]

I am very much of the same thought. However, you can bet your last donut that I won't forget such action.


Neither would I. To my mind, a person who would burn the American flag probably hates puppies...

[pete311]

burn some cloth and lose citizenship. this is becoming a scary world. funny. know where else it's a crime a burn the flag? Iran. So much for freedom. funny how some people put symbols before actual flesh and blood human beings. this is why we have the constitution and bill of rights. you protect ourselves from what one person "thinks" is right.

[jimnyc]

burn some cloth and lose citizenship. this is becoming a scary world. funny. know where else it's a crime a burn the flag? Iran. So much for freedom.

I did a search before I posted this - I didn't see you post anything at all about this when it was put forth with many democrat signatures.... ODD THAT! "becoming" and yet silent when HILLARY signs so. Or link to where you protested and I'll admit I was wrong - but I bet I'm NOT.

Same everything. You can even link us to other boards where you may have protested this, Pete. Let's see how consistent you are/were in such condemnation.

-----

Flashback: Sen. Hillary Clinton Co-Sponsored Bill to Punish Flag Burners

President-elect Donald Trump isn’t the first person to propose punishment for burning the American flag. Consider the Flag Protection Act of 2005, co-sponsored by then-Sen. Hillary Clinton (D.-N.Y.).

“Any person who shall intentionally threaten or intimidate any person or group of persons by burning, or causing to be burned, a flag of the United States shall be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both,” read the bill, which Clinton co-sponsored the day it was filed by Sen. Robert Bennett (R.-Utah), along with Sen. Barbara Boxer (D.-Calif.), Sen. Thomas Carper (D.-Del.) and Sen. Mark Pryor (D.-Ark.).

The bill further included a provision with an additional charge for burning a flag as part of a demonstration:


Any person who destroys or damages a flag of the United States with the primary purpose and intent to incite or produce imminent violence or a breach of the peace, and under circumstances in which the person knows that it is reasonably likely to produce imminent violence or a breach of the peace, shall be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/11/29/flashback-sen-hillary-clinton-files-bill-punishing-flag-burners-one-year-jail/

[aboutime]

burn some cloth and lose citizenship. this is becoming a scary world. funny. know where else it's a crime a burn the flag? Iran. So much for freedom. funny how some people put symbols before actual flesh and blood human beings.


pete. Which symbol would you say you honor, like, or respect? Other than the STUPID BUTTON you must press before speaking here....http://icansayit.com/images/stupidbutt.jpg

What country do you live in? Nobody loses their citizenship here because they burn the flag. So, why don't you go to Iran, where their is NO Constitution that gives you any rights.

[pete311]

I did a search before I posted this - I didn't see you post anything at all about this when it was put forth with many democrat signatures.... ODD THAT! "becoming" and yet silent when HILLARY signs so. Or link to where you protested and I'll admit I was wrong - but I bet I'm NOT.

Same everything. You can even link us to other boards where you may have protested this, Pete. Let's see how consistent you are/were in such condemnation.


My bad for not reading every thread here since the beginning.




What country do you live in? Nobody loses their citizenship here because they burn the flag. So, why don't you go to Iran, where their is NO Constitution that gives you any rights.

This thread is about Trump's proposal

[hjmick]

Now I'm just going to have to kill you for disagreeing with me. LOL Well said though. In theory I agree. But I see it more as an action and less of "speech". I get the difference and where this stands though. I just disagree with the SC on this one, but understand that it is the law. And yup, I also fully understand that are best of the best in the military fought and died to give them that right. And even though they have that right, knowing those best of the best did so, and so many of them are dead - all the more reason I hate such scumbags. It's just something very difficult for me to see and or pass by. If it was literally done in front of me - at the very least that flag will be saved for another day. If you light anything else on fire while in public and you'll get some sort of charge against you for doing so - but light Old Glory on fire in public and it's protected.

I know this is one of those double edged you speak of. It protects freedom of speech at costs that some can't fathom (myself), but that's the beauty of our constitution I suppose.

But in addition to swiping it away, I have to be honest and state that I may be an asshole and take a swipe or a kick as well. I may end up in the clink for the evening, and be wrong for taking away his/her rights, but I think I would feel stronger about protecting the flag than they do about burning the flag.

Commence verbal ass kicking, I can take it!! :)

https://i.imgur.com/aYFRbxE.gif


Why would I administer a verbal ass kicking? We have slightly different opinions on the subject, though I don't believe we're that far apart. I can't help it if you're wrong... :laugh:

[aboutime]

My bad for not reading every thread here since the beginning.



This thread is about Trump's proposal


REALLY? Did Trump propose FLAG BURNING?

[hjmick]

burn some cloth and lose citizenship. this is becoming a scary world. funny. know where else it's a crime a burn the flag? Iran...


But it's not illegal to burn an American flag in Iran...

[pete311]

REALLY? Did Trump propose FLAG BURNING?

No, where do you get that idea?


But it's not illegal to burn an American flag in Iran...

don't troll. their flag

[Bilgerat]

Here's something we know for a certainty

1) IT'S BEEN DECIDED BY SCOTUS

What does that mean for the brain dead hate mongering, fear spreading left?

IT MEANS THAT PRESIDENT ELECT TRUMP WAS MERELY SPEAKING HIS MIND AND NOTHING HE SAID WILL BE ENACTED INTO LAW




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/17/ff/03/17ff03e019aa2d89f1352f7681d189fe.jpg

[hjmick]

don't troll. their flag


Not your board, not your call.


And I knew to which flag you were referring.

[jimnyc]

I did a search before I posted this - I didn't see you post anything at all about this when it was put forth with many democrat signatures.... ODD THAT! "becoming" and yet silent when HILLARY signs so. Or link to where you protested and I'll admit I was wrong - but I bet I'm NOT.

Same everything. You can even link us to other boards where you may have protested this, Pete. Let's see how consistent you are/were in such condemnation.


My bad for not reading every thread here since the beginning.

I'm sorry my post was incomprehensible and difficult for you to understand. I will explain and try to rephrase for you buddy!

I believe I already stated that I had searched for your condemnation and came up empty. Being your outrage at what Trump proposed, one can only conclude that you were equally outraged 6 years ago. I wanted to see how equal your posts were on the issue. I searched here, and at USMB, and about 10 different search terms on Google. I still came up empty. Did that year not exist for you? Were you just not online that year?

I was asking you to search, Pete, even if not our site. How many political sites have you posted on? I could search the same terms on every political site I ever posted on in less than 20 minutes or so - tops.

So considering your outrage, I thought you would love to shove it in my face and say "here, I think it's wrong no matter who proposes it, you were wrong, now eat shit".

It's a scary world you said, losing freedoms in reference to this - and he only said it on twitter - whereas what Hillary and other Dems signed their names to was actually in Washington.

So what is it, Pete? You were MIA back then? Too lazy to search?

or a BIG FAT HYPOCRITE - which is my choice.

[jimnyc]

Why would I administer a verbal ass kicking? We have slightly different opinions on the subject, though I don't believe we're that far apart. I can't help it if you're wrong... :laugh:

I believe if we had a few more drinks together or 9 of them, that perhaps I may even get you to help me with the flag burners ass kicking. :) I'll say I'm wrong if you help me with that! :laugh:

[jimnyc]

$10 via Paypal for anyone who can find a bonafide post by Pete, condemning Hillary and the others for the flag protection act back when. Or even condemning ANY democrat actions in reference to flag burning or similar. Methinks some will jump on this now since it's Trump being the one bringing it forth. While perhaps the majority were against any action to make burning it illegal - I think some were just a little "quiet" when Hillary and a handful of other democrats names were attached.

[jimnyc]

A few posts from a different discussion back in 2007. Some valid points all the way around!

The question was - Would you support a flag burning amendment making it illegal to burn it?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?8240-Would-you-support-a-flag-burning-amendment-making-it-illegal-to-burn-it

-----

April15 - NO! As it is the only proper way to retire a used flag.

Gaffer - An amendment would not affect someone burning a retired flag properly. It would only cover people desecrating the flag. I would support such an amendment.

Classact - I would support burning the guy who burned the flag. It is not free speech. People who burn the flag should be sent to Venezuela for a one year paid vacation right after they get out of jail.

bullypulpit - Sorry, but it IS free speech. Or are you going to put everyone in jail who has a flag sewn to the ass of their jeans...plastered on a cheap, Chinese-made t-shirt...Or stuck to their lapels in the form of one of those pins made by slave-labor in a Chicom factory? Your handle is a misnomer...You got no class.

82Marine89 - Free speech? Fine, but you must realize that I took an oath to protect this great Nation against enemies both foreign and domestic. I pledge allegiance to that flag and the Republic for which it stands, so if I ever see a person burn or desecrate an American flag in my presence, I will do everything in my power to defend that flag and use as much force as is required to end the situation as abruptly as possible.

JackDaniels - Absolutely not. Political demonstration is exactly what the first amendment was designed to protect

Pale Rider - There is NO OTHER SYMBOL for America. It is OUR FLAG, as there are flags of all other nations. It should be held in the highest of regard, and protected from any and all disrespect and desecration. If you burn an American flag other than retiring it, you are PISSING IN THE FACE DISRESPECTING all those who have fought, spilled their blood and died under it, and in essence, every American citizen.

You bet yer fuckin' ass I'd support it.

Gabby - It's called "freedom of expression." (another one who I guarantee didn't say a peep about Hillary and friends, and she swears she was at USMB since pretty much the beginning, should be easy to find!!)
Kathianne - I'm against any amendment making flag burning illegal. However I agree with the above, as long as the person is willing to pay the consequences if it gets out of hand. I would be so willing. Then again, I hadn't a problem with Civil Rights marches, protests, etc., and paying the price for the laws at the time.

That is what Thoreau and King were talking about. Some things are worth standing up for and being responsible for one's actions.

Gunny - Sorry, but no it isn't free speech. It's offending others to gain attention.

There's a big difference between wearing apparel that depicts the US flag and purposefully desecrating it. You cannot remove intent from the argument, no matter how hard you try.

Maineman - As much as I disagree with the idea of burning our flag, I personally believe that one of the most basic rights I served this country to protect was the right to express one's self without fear of retribution from the government.

I must say that any GI who would risk his life for a flag only, is foolish. I would never put myself in danger just to protect the flag. I DID and always would put myself in harm's way to protect a comrade in arms... or to accomplish the mission.

In the final analysis, it is a piece of cloth.... not a piece of the true cross. It is a SYMBOL of America - not America herself - and I believe that America is SO great that it can withstand the demonstrations of protest that burning that symbol presents

Mr. P - Would you support a flag burning amendment making it illegal to burn it

Nope. The Constitution is fine.

manu1959 - sorry, but burning the symbol of your country is not free speech.....

anyone who burns the flag for effect....should be arrested and jailed....

[Kathianne]

Neither would I. To my mind, a person who would burn the American flag probably hates puppies...

or thinks more of puppies than people.

[jimnyc]

or thinks more of puppies than people.

Or likely are the types to abuse puppies. :(

That aside. :) I will say this, I think liberals and conservatives, left/right or whatever you want to call it, sure have different ways of protesting, legal and illegal. There are exceptions to everything, but burning, destroying and other unsavory things, usually comes from the left. I don't recall massive protests including violence and destruction after 2008 and 2012. The group of folks that are always demanding tolerance, are also the group that are the first to go out with the hate, and protest in ways that include the illegal activities.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

An American citizen burning our flag is an ungrateful bastard. Yes, he/she is protected by law but the law does not make the act right-it only protects the act, in accordance to the Constitution...
I think they SCOTUS decision given protection was wrong but hey that is just one man's biased opinion.
My reasoning is that they could , given the level of sacrifices made for this nation and that flag(symbol), make this one-exemption...
I know,the ole where does it stop once that is done, question..
Well, it could stop with a big size 14 boot up their arse if an ungrateful bastard(American citizen) burns the flag...as that person could in a multitude of other ways express contempt for this nation and its government ,
here is a novel idea-----
, teach the wretched bastards to really read and write, so they could use that freaking avenue, to publicly vent their anger and opposition!

Hell, I'll never know for sure what I'd do until some asshole tries to do that in front of me.
Odds are good, that somebody gonna being carrying a damn fine ass stomping..
And I'll bet a damn dollar against a doughnut, that, it aint agonna be me..- ;) -Tyr

[Drummond]

As a Brit, I dare to have a point of view on this.

One of the most stellar differences existing between the US and the UK is that you, in America, still have a strong sense of patriotism. You care about your country (I'm prepared to exempt Lefties from this, of course ..). You care about what she stands for, and her worth in the wider world.

The UK is losing all sense of that same spirit, and we're much the poorer for it.

If I were American, I'd want flag-burning made illegal, and for it to be seen to be an unpatriotic act (which of course it IS).

For those wanting to see patriotic decay be exercised in this form ... I ask where it would stop. Disrespect for America and all that she is ... how far should it go ? How far is TOO far ?

Anyone betraying their country to an enemy power, for example ... be it, in the olden days, to the Soviet Union - or a more modern equivalent may be to join terrorists such as ISIS ... doesn't the very same spirit of flag-burning, burn within THEM ?

Disrespect for the American flag - I submit - IS an act of betrayal, in spirit at minimum. It betrays all those who've suffered or died to defend her and her principles. It shows contempt for America's history, and its very foundling reasons for existence.

[Elessar]

Let's say you grabbed a flag from flag burner or grabbed it and put out the fire? He bought it and was on public property. It's happened many times, anyone find a arrest and large fine for denying his 1st amendment rights? A case where someone intervened with flag treatment and threw punches? Again, I'd be interested in finding any arrests, convictions.

It's weird what police and DA's do in these cases, no? I think it's discretionary power?

I served this Nation and it's widely displayed symbol, Old Glory, for 37 years.

Think I'm going to worry about repercussions?

[aboutime]

An American citizen burning our flag is an ungrateful bastard. Yes, he/she is protected by law but the law does not make the act right-it only protects the act, in accordance to the Constitution...
I think they SCOTUS decision given protection was wrong but hey that is just one man's biased opinion.
My reasoning is that they could , given the level of sacrifices made for this nation and that flag(symbol), make this one-exemption...
I know,the ole where does it stop once that is done, question..
Well, it could stop with a big size 14 boot up their arse if an ungrateful bastard(American citizen) burns the flag...as that person could in a multitude of other ways express contempt for this nation and its government ,
here is a novel idea-----
, teach the wretched bastards to really read and write, so they could use that freaking avenue, to publicly vent their anger and opposition!

Hell, I'll never know for sure what I'd do until some asshole tries to do that in front of me.
Odds are good, that somebody gonna being carrying a damn fine ass stomping..
And I'll bet a damn dollar against a doughnut, that, it aint agonna be me..- ;) -Tyr



Tyr. Don't get me wrong here. I agree with you, and your feelings on this as being the patriotic citizen both of us are, but...We must remember. If we stoop to the level of those who intentionally break the laws, ignore our constitution...ARE WE ANY BETTER THAN THEY ARE by responding AS THEY WANT, using whatever violent forms they are looking to get?

I know I'm talking to the choir here, and nearly everyone reading this has their own feelings on how to handle those who would Desecrate our Flag for any reason.
YET...unless the SCOTUS changes their interpretation of the 1st amendment, and the freedom of speech, or expression. WE ARE STILL BOUND to following our laws.
The Double-standards of Liberals, Obama, Clintons, and Democrats in Congress have created this kind of Lawlessness. So...WE THE PEOPLE who care, have to wait, and not lower ourselves to THEIR STANDARDS of lawlessness..just to make us feel good.
Millions of other Americans like myself, as a Veteran, feel the pain...probably much more than the other millions of AMERICANS who have never worn the uniform.
So, I can't honestly speak for everyone, but IF WE FAIL to do as we demand of others. ARE WE GOING TO GET ANYWHERE?
Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.
Remember how down I was before the election?
That has all changed, and I am again REALLY PROUD OF MY 30 YEARS in uniform again.

[Kathianne]

I served this Nation and it's widely displayed symbol, Old Glory, for 37 years.

Think I'm going to worry about repercussions?

Elessar, I do like you, but we often seem to have problems communicating. Please read my post again, the repercussions I was referring to was the one burning the flag.

[Balu]

I've said time and again, they have the right to burn the flag or any other despicable act. Of course there likely will be repercussions for doing so in public and anyone involved will appear before a jury of their peers.

I think though that as a principled matter, everyone should consider that the same first amendment that protects the free speech of flag burners, is the same that over turned Citizen's United.

In Russia such actions are qualified as desecration of state symbols.
According to Article 329 of the criminal code of Russia the punishment is up to 1 year of imprisonment.
And I think that this is right/
The State flag is NOT just a piece of cloth. This is a symbol of a State to which the citizens dedicated their lives and some of them even lost their lives under the State flag. Therefore the highest degree of recognition to the citizen when during the funeral his coffin is covered with the National flag.

[aboutime]

In Russia such actions are qualified as desecration of state symbols.
According to Article 329 of the criminal code of Russia the punishment is up to 1 year of imprisonment.
And I think that this is right/
The State flag is NOT just a piece of cloth. This is a symbol of a State to which the citizens dedicated their lives and some of them even lost their lives under the State flag. Therefore the highest degree of recognition to the citizen when during the funeral his coffin is covered with the National flag.


Balu. Do you have a Constitution with guaranteed FREEDOMS, RIGHTS, and LIBERTY?
And, are you FREE to publicly DENOUNCE PUTIN?

http://youtu.be/oDF321wWUms

[jimnyc]

In Russia such actions are qualified as desecration of state symbols.
According to Article 329 of the criminal code of Russia the punishment is up to 1 year of imprisonment.
And I think that this is right/
The State flag is NOT just a piece of cloth. This is a symbol of a State to which the citizens dedicated their lives and some of them even lost their lives under the State flag. Therefore the highest degree of recognition to the citizen when during the funeral his coffin is covered with the National flag.

Well stated, Balu!

Believe it or not, while I'm the loudest against them being allowed to, I DO understand the reasoning behind the decision and our overall freedoms. Personally, I can easily see this one being against the law and still not step on freedoms in the slightest bit.

Imagine that though, a law meant to fully respect the flag, it's history and why it remains so prominent, and why we still stand and put a hand over our hearts at times. Imagine actually protecting something that brings about patriotism. There are a billion things that can be done to protect the protestors rights - without letting them light shit on fire.

[jimnyc]

Balu. Do you have a Constitution with guaranteed FREEDOMS, RIGHTS, and LIBERTY?
And, are you FREE to publicly DENOUNCE PUTIN?

Dang, you HAAAAAAAAAD to go and post Scalia and his opinion, didn't ya?? And he says it so dang perfectly. A part of me knows that he is correct, and it's hard to digest that one.

But there's a reason they have laws, so that fuckers like me can break them and go to jail for :poke:the nice little flag burners :)

[pete311]

I'm sorry my post was incomprehensible and difficult for you to understand. I will explain and try to rephrase for you buddy!

I believe I already stated that I had searched for your condemnation and came up empty. Being your outrage at what Trump proposed, one can only conclude that you were equally outraged 6 years ago. I wanted to see how equal your posts were on the issue. I searched here, and at USMB, and about 10 different search terms on Google. I still came up empty. Did that year not exist for you? Were you just not online that year?

I was asking you to search, Pete, even if not our site. How many political sites have you posted on? I could search the same terms on every political site I ever posted on in less than 20 minutes or so - tops.

So considering your outrage, I thought you would love to shove it in my face and say "here, I think it's wrong no matter who proposes it, you were wrong, now eat shit".

It's a scary world you said, losing freedoms in reference to this - and he only said it on twitter - whereas what Hillary and other Dems signed their names to was actually in Washington.

So what is it, Pete? You were MIA back then? Too lazy to search?

or a BIG FAT HYPOCRITE - which is my choice.

6 years ago lol. I don't post anywhere else. I was not aware of Hillary's stance 6 years ago. I was likely traveling the world. I would have been against it anyway. You can calm your little crusade here.

[aboutime]

Dang, you HAAAAAAAAAD to go and post Scalia and his opinion, didn't ya?? And he says it so dang perfectly. A part of me knows that he is correct, and it's hard to digest that one.

But there's a reason they have laws, so that fuckers like me can break them and go to jail for :poke:the nice little flag burners :)

My apologies jim. But as you have probably guessed by now. Though I fully agree with you, and others about those flag burning assholes. I took an Oath, like every other Veteran, and even politicians to SUPPORT, and DEFEND the Constitution.
Furthermore. When I retired from active duty, and put away the uniforms. As I know, you have probably heard many times before...."MY OATH DID NOT RETIRE!" That is the lone freedom I have left to protect, before I die.
It doesn't make me happy. But...until the Laws are changed. I promised to obey them.:saluting2:

[jimnyc]

6 years ago lol. I don't post anywhere else. I was not aware of Hillary's stance 6 years ago. I was likely traveling the world. I would have been against it anyway. You can calm your little crusade here.

My only crusade is often pointing out hypocritical stances. And Btw, turns out it was in 2005, I was wrong on the dates. Perhaps you were around, and maybe even at USMB around that time? :)

Maybe you're right, maybe you would be against it whether Trump or Hillary. I'll take you at your word for that one. But I also believe you would have been quiet about your stance, as you are quiet about so many other negative liberal/democrat stances, only to pop out here and there to condemn conservative things. I got my eye on you fucker.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Tyr. Don't get me wrong here. I agree with you, and your feelings on this as being the patriotic citizen both of us are, but...We must remember. If we stoop to the level of those who intentionally break the laws, ignore our constitution...ARE WE ANY BETTER THAN THEY ARE by responding AS THEY WANT, using whatever violent forms they are looking to get?

I know I'm talking to the choir here, and nearly everyone reading this has their own feelings on how to handle those who would Desecrate our Flag for any reason.
YET...unless the SCOTUS changes their interpretation of the 1st amendment, and the freedom of speech, or expression. WE ARE STILL BOUND to following our laws.
The Double-standards of Liberals, Obama, Clintons, and Democrats in Congress have created this kind of Lawlessness. So...WE THE PEOPLE who care, have to wait, and not lower ourselves to THEIR STANDARDS of lawlessness..just to make us feel good.
Millions of other Americans like myself, as a Veteran, feel the pain...probably much more than the other millions of AMERICANS who have never worn the uniform.
So, I can't honestly speak for everyone, but IF WE FAIL to do as we demand of others. ARE WE GOING TO GET ANYWHERE?
Just my two cents. Take it or leave it.
Remember how down I was before the election?
That has all changed, and I am again REALLY PROUD OF MY 30 YEARS in uniform again.

And proud you should always be my friend!!
I understand.. This is one of those Solomon, cut the child in half problems.
The law protects the bad action in order to preserve he right to freedom of speech....
I see it as catch 22 sort of thing.
And yes, If I DECIDED TO STOMP THE GUY BURNING THE FLAG I 'D ALSO KNOW THE LAW WOULD BE RIGHT IN PUNISHING ME-
YET TIS VERY LIKELY THAT WOULD NO STOP ME.
And yes, call me savage -but I bez prone to violence..... too much history for me to ever deny that about myself..
True Southern men are born with that gene methinks...-Tyr

[Elessar]

Elessar, I do like you, but we often seem to have problems communicating. Please read my post again, the repercussions I was referring to was the one burning the flag.

I read all of that, M'Lady....

It just churns my gut to see a symbol of this nation being symbolically destroyed because some
fools think it empowers them to force their 'rights' on the majority.

They want to do it? Let a Vet or true American pull it away and/or kick their skinny butt back to mommy.

[Balu]

And proud you should always be my friend!!
I understand.. This is one of those Solomon, cut the child in half problems.
The law protects the bad action in order to preserve he right to freedom of speech....
I see it as catch 22 sort of thing.
And yes, If I DECIDED TO STOMP THE GUY BURNING THE FLAG I 'D ALSO KNOW THE LAW WOULD BE RIGHT IN PUNISHING ME-
YET TIS VERY LIKELY THAT WOULD NO STOP ME.
And yes, call me savage -but I bez prone to violence..... too much history for me to ever deny that about myself..
True Southern men are born with that gene methinks...-Tyr

An excellent human citizenship who is willing and used to take responsibility for own actions. I share it 100%. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/good.gif http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/friends.gif

[gabosaurus]

Sure, you can make burning the flag illegal. And you can go vindictive on those who burn the flag. Because the American flag represents you.
But what would be next? The Bible? Your favorite sports team?

If you are a veteran, you fought to retain freedom the American rights of speech and expression.

[CSM]

Sure, you can make burning the flag illegal. And you can go vindictive on those who burn the flag. Because the American flag represents you.
But what would be next? The Bible? Your favorite sports team?

If you are a veteran, you fought to retain freedom the American rights of speech and expression.

As we all know, what Gabby means is that US citizens have the right to freedom of speech as long as you are a Dem/Lib and remain PC. You can burn the flag but don't you DARE express your Christian beliefs in public! You can burn the flag but don't you DARE display that flag in school lest you trigger some poor illegal immigrant. You can say anything you want, unless the left determines it is hate speech, racist, homophobic or sexist....

Did I forget anything?

[NightTrain]

As we all know, what Gabby means is that US citizens have the right to freedom of speech as long as you are a Dem/Lib and remain PC. You can burn the flag but don't you DARE express your Christian beliefs in public! You can burn the flag but don't you DARE display that flag in school lest you trigger some poor illegal immigrant. You can say anything you want, unless the left determines it is hate speech, racist, homophobic or sexist....

Did I forget anything?

Nailed.

[aboutime]

Sure, you can make burning the flag illegal. And you can go vindictive on those who burn the flag. Because the American flag represents you.
But what would be next? The Bible? Your favorite sports team?

If you are a veteran, you fought to retain freedom the American rights of speech and expression.


Right you are gabby. And, in defending Americans, and that FLAG. We also earned the rights to speech, and expression by telling the spoiled American idiots who burn their own flag...how lucky they are to be as dumb, stupid, ignorant, and idiotic as they are learning to be in the LIBERAL BASTIONS of Liberalism...called College, where emotions, and whining are the TOP TWO subjects that eventually win a DEGREE in ANARCHY.

[Bilgerat]

What I want to know is, with all this talk from the left on how the National Ensign is just a "piece of cloth".

What was the panic about the Stars and Bars for. Isn't that just another piece of cloth?

[jimnyc]

Should have expected this, speak out about it and out come the cockroaches. Now look at what I put in bold. WTF? So now we're oppressing folks again. It only stands for slavery and genocide. plunder. And it's been with us for 200+ years - but of course it's all about the police murdering black/brown people.

Apparently they practiced this burning in private before hand, and a few burned their brains accidentally.

-----

Protesters Burn American Flags Outside Trump International Hotel

Protesters burned American flags outside of Trump International Hotel in protest of President-elect Donald Trump’s claim that there “must be consequences” for flag-burners.

Twitter videos show members of the far-left NYC Revolution Club pouring lighter fluid on a pair of American flags and lighting them on fire, according to Fox News.

“It is a symbol of oppression. It is a symbol of slavery and genocide. The American flag stands for plunder. It stands for death squads in Guatemala. It stands for police murder of black and brown people,” one of the protesters said. “This flag stands for genocide of native people and the assault on Standing Rock. This flag deserves to burn.”

“We burn this flag for the people of the world. One, two, three, four! Slavery, genocide, and war! Five, six, seven, eight! America was never great!” the protesters shouted.

The United States Supreme Court ruled in 1989 that burning an American flag is not illegal and is a protected form of free speech under the First Amendment.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/30/watch-protesters-burn-american-flags-outside-trump-international-hotel/

[pete311]

Bill Hicks
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/bill-hicks-on-our-freedom-to-burn-the-flag/85205449/

[jimnyc]

Seems all the liberals have left is tossing insults, threatening the electorate, and humor videos.

I feel for you, Pete, and that's the honest truth. I know the feeling, how it sucks when you think your choice would win president, and instead they fall flat. And then you find out they also lost the house and senate. You feel like anything you believe in and support, no longer has a chance of happening, even with the "hope and change".

Well, Pete, get used to it - as hope and change is on it's way!!

[Gunny]

I'm sorry my post was incomprehensible and difficult for you to understand. I will explain and try to rephrase for you buddy!

I believe I already stated that I had searched for your condemnation and came up empty. Being your outrage at what Trump proposed, one can only conclude that you were equally outraged 6 years ago. I wanted to see how equal your posts were on the issue. I searched here, and at USMB, and about 10 different search terms on Google. I still came up empty. Did that year not exist for you? Were you just not online that year?

I was asking you to search, Pete, even if not our site. How many political sites have you posted on? I could search the same terms on every political site I ever posted on in less than 20 minutes or so - tops.

So considering your outrage, I thought you would love to shove it in my face and say "here, I think it's wrong no matter who proposes it, you were wrong, now eat shit".

It's a scary world you said, losing freedoms in reference to this - and he only said it on twitter - whereas what Hillary and other Dems signed their names to was actually in Washington.

So what is it, Pete? You were MIA back then? Too lazy to search?

or a BIG FAT HYPOCRITE - which is my choice.
t
Oh fucking really? Searched USMB did ya? Odd. I ran that board a year for each day you owned it. I know for a fact the topic is on there more than twice. How could it not be with that gaggle of losers? Want to try again? And I WILL shove my Colors in your face. They don't run. Don't like it? Get the fuck out. Better men than your whiny ass have died for and those Colors so you can sit in mommy's basement and whine. Because you ever did anything.

[Black Diamond]

Seems all the liberals have left is tossing insults, threatening the electorate, and humor videos.

I feel for you, Pete, and that's the honest truth. I know the feeling, how it sucks when you think your choice would win president, and instead they fall flat. And then you find out they also lost the house and senate. You feel like anything you believe in and support, no longer has a chance of happening, even with the "hope and change".

Well, Pete, get used to it - as hope and change is on it's way!!
Some workers in Indiana have hope today.

[jimnyc]

t
Oh fucking really? Searched USMB did ya? Odd. I ran that board a year for each day you owned it. I know for a fact the topic is on there more than twice. How could it not be with that gaggle of losers? Want to try again? And I WILL shove my Colors in your face. They don't run. Don't like it? Get the fuck out. Better men than your whiny ass have died for and those Colors so you can sit in mommy's basement and whine. Because you ever did anything.

Color me confused - did you mean to address that to me? I know Pete didn't search USMB, but I did. I did find quite a few threads on the subject.... but nada from Pete.

I did find some from Kathianne!! And her stance was 100% identical to that of hers today. I LOVE consistency!! :)

And Paulie Walnuts aka OCA - color me confused again!! He's all for protecting the sacred flag!! ---- or was at least. :)

[jimnyc]

Anyway, anything other than the proper disposal of the flag as it has been recognized throughout American history should be met with a stiff jail sentence and fine and if circumstances permit a stiff ass thrashing from an unruly mob.

^^ I agree with you 500%!!!

[jimnyc]

THIS is why I think Gunny and I can be best friends!!!

-----

The flag represents our nation. That the First Amendment allows one to burn it is just left-wingnut literalist jibberish. "The Constitution doesn't say I can't." That's because our Founding Fathers never envisioned that any idiots would conside doing such a thing.

If you want to believe the Constitution allows you to express yourself by burning the flag, so be it.

I will express my disagreement with your wrongful thinking via baseball bat if you try it around me.

[Black Diamond]

Anyway, anything other than the proper disposal of the flag as it has been recognized throughout American history should be met with a stiff jail sentence and fine and if circumstances permit a stiff ass thrashing from an unruly mob.

^^ I agree with you 500%!!!
When I was a kid I went into an army surplus store to buy camouflage stuff. The owner had a tee shirt with the American flag on it. It said "you can burn this flag as long as it's wrapped around your gasoline soaked body. If that doesn't kill you, I will".

[jimnyc]

Odd this one, considering it was in a flag burning thread. My how times have changed!! :thumb:
-
----

Anyway I want your take on this Gabby, what do you say to the factual charges that the Demos have kept Blacks poor, on welfare and huddled for the most part in inner city ghettoes just for the pure pleasure of having them vote for them every election cycle? I mean Blacks can't survive without that good ol' public assistance that the Demos provide, right?

[Black Diamond]

THIS is why I think Gunny and I can be best friends!!!

-----

The flag represents our nation. That the First Amendment allows one to burn it is just left-wingnut literalist jibberish. "The Constitution doesn't say I can't." That's because our Founding Fathers never envisioned that any idiots would conside doing such a thing.

If you want to believe the Constitution allows you to express yourself by burning the flag, so be it.

I will express my disagreement with your wrongful thinking via baseball bat if you try it around me.

theres a lot of literalism going around the last 20 years or so.

[Gunny]

Color me confused - did you mean to address that to me? I know Pete didn't search USMB, but I did. I did find quite a few threads on the subject.... but nada from Pete.

I did find some from Kathianne!! And her stance was 100% identical to that of hers today. I LOVE consistency!! :)

And Paulie Walnuts aka OCA - color me confused again!! He's all for protecting the sacred flag!! ---- or was at least. :)

Not aimed at you. Should know better by now. :slap: I'd have to re-read 3 times if I though you were okay with disrespecting the Colors. I don't think you can find my posts over there. They think if they pretend I don't exist, I don't. You're not even allowed to say my name.:laugh2:

[jimnyc]

The BEST of all, from manu1959:


shoot flag burners on sight ... that will put an end to it

[revelarts]

In Russia such actions are qualified as desecration of state symbols.
According to Article 329 of the criminal code of Russia the punishment is up to 1 year of imprisonment.
And I think that this is right/
The State flag is NOT just a piece of cloth. This is a symbol of a State to which the citizens dedicated their lives and some of them even lost their lives under the State flag. Therefore the highest degree of recognition to the citizen when during the funeral his coffin is covered with the National flag.


Balu. Do you have a Constitution with guaranteed FREEDOMS, RIGHTS, and LIBERTY?
And, are you FREE to publicly DENOUNCE PUTIN?


aboutime I agree with you here 1000% sir
:clap: :clap: :clap:

mkark it down on your calendars folks

[Bilgerat]

The BEST of all, from manu1959:


shoot flag burners on sight ... that will put an end to it



Just get a "Lucille"

She is AWESOME :laugh:
https://dyn0.media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/3668092b.jpg.jpg

[jimnyc]

aboutime I agree with you here 1000% sir
:clap: :clap: :clap:

mkark it down on your calendars folks

Rev, my apologies, but I had to remove some fonts and the video from your reply to AT. For whatever reason, the board didn't like the code, and the thread got stuck partially through your post. I was able to edit, but still wouldn't load, so I kept editing little pieces until it now loads. I think the only thing really missing is the fonts, and the video, and the video was the video that AT posted, so should still be there?

Anyway, just wanted to explain!

[hjmick]

The BEST of all, from manu1959:


shoot flag burners on sight ... that will put an end to it


manu.


Now there's a poster I'd like to see come back...

[revelarts]

Rev, my apologies, but I had to remove some fonts and the video from your reply to AT. For whatever reason, the board didn't like the code, and the thread got stuck partially through your post. I was able to edit, but still wouldn't load, so I kept editing little pieces until it now loads. I think the only thing really missing is the fonts, and the video, and the video was the video that AT posted, so should still be there?

Anyway, just wanted to explain!

Makes sense that me agreeing with AT broke the board.
no worries.

[pete311]

Some workers in Indiana have hope today.

yay corporate welfare

[jimnyc]

yay corporate welfare

And yet everyone wins. Jobs stay in America. More money will be spent in the local economy. And sure, the company profits more. Where is the problem though, other than liberals being upset that he struck the deal so quickly?

[CSM]

yay corporate welfare

Interesting...can anyone find a post by Pete complaining when Obama forked over taxpayer money to Solaris? Ya, didn't think so.

[CSM]

Now if only these folks so concerned about First Amendment rights were as passionate and committed to defending the Second Amendment ... if they get to burn the flag as an enumerated right, we get to own an M16 .... just sayin

[pete311]

And yet everyone wins. Jobs stay in America. More money will be spent in the local economy. And sure, the company profits more. Where is the problem though, other than liberals being upset that he struck the deal so quickly?

where is my tax break? I'll move my business to mexico. wait til every business in the country threatens to move. you think the national debt is high now? free markets are dead.

[aboutime]

where is my tax break? I'll move my business to mexico. wait til every business in the country threatens to move. you think the national debt is high now?


pete. IF YOU MOVE TO MEXICO...The rest of us will feel the BREAK instantly. Your constant whining is comical. By the way. Anything that happens GREAT for this country after Trump takes office...YOU SHOULD TURN DOWN.

The Constitution gives you the right to LEAVE any time you want. And that constitution gives all of us the right to CHEER, and WAVE GOODBYE to you as well.:saluting2:

[Balu]

aboutime I agree with you here 1000% sir
:clap: :clap: :clap:

mkark it down on your calendars folks

I've already spoken about the curiosity and hesitation as one of the most valuable quality of a person to brush of propaganda garbage from your head. Do take your chance to be more informed than you are. There are definite answers to the questions of revelarts

http://constitution.garant.ru/english/

Plus the illustrations...

http://novotroitsk.info/uploads/posts/2011-12/thumbs/1324718370_miting.jpg

http://rusrep.ru/images/photo/1375182034251540_big_photo.jpeg

[NightTrain]

where is my tax break? I'll move my business to mexico. wait til every business in the country threatens to move. you think the national debt is high now? free markets are dead.
:blah:

[Black Diamond]

pete. IF YOU MOVE TO MEXICO...The rest of us will feel the BREAK instantly. Your constant whining is comical. By the way. Anything that happens GREAT for this country after Trump takes office...YOU SHOULD TURN DOWN.

The Constitution gives you the right to LEAVE any time you want. And that constitution gives all of us the right to CHEER, and WAVE GOODBYE to you as well.:saluting2:
He could probably still log in from Mexico. I suppose he couldn't vote here anymore. Theoretically

[Drummond]

I've already spoken about the curiosity and hesitation as one of the most valuable quality of a person to brush of propaganda garbage from your head. Do take your chance to be more informed than you are. There are definite answers to the questions of revelarts

http://constitution.garant.ru/english/

Plus the illustrations...

http://novotroitsk.info/uploads/posts/2011-12/thumbs/1324718370_miting.jpg

http://rusrep.ru/images/photo/1375182034251540_big_photo.jpeg

I have to say, Balu ... not bad. Not at all bad (perhaps open to question in parts ... but, overall ...).

Looks like - judging from the overall message - a definite break from the tyranny of the old Soviet Union days. Yes .... ??

Which brings me the thought .... would freedom-loving citizens of Crimea, today, see things the way you're peddling them ?

I can't speak for American strategists and military men. I can, to some degree, for ours, in the UK. Frankly ... having seen the example of Crimea, we're wondering who's next for the 'good ol' Uncle Putin' treatment ....

They're not the only ones.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/russias-seizure-of-crimea-is-making-former-soviet-states-nervous/284156/


Ukraine's autonomous republic of Crimea, according to Ukrainian officials (it's not clear how many of them were already in the region before this crisis), in a deployment ordered by Russian President Vladimir Putin to protect "Russian citizens and compatriots on Ukrainian territory." No shots have been fired, but Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, has placed his country's military on its highest alert level to deter "potential aggression," as the United States condemned Russia's "invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory" in violation of international law.

Fifteen independent countries, including Russia, emerged from the Soviet Union's disintegration. Six of them—Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, and the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania—are in Europe, and all of them have a complicated relationship with modern Russia. Seven other countries once belonged to the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union's military alliance in Eastern Europe. With the Cold War's end, none of them had faced the threat of military intervention by the communist superpower's successor state—until now. (In discussing Europe here, I'm not including Eurasian countries like Georgia, which fought a war with Russia in 2008, or the military support Russia offered Moldova's breakaway Transnistria region in the early 1990s.)

In response to the standoff in Crimea, Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves announced that he would convene the National Defense Council on March 2 to discuss the crisis and called upon the Baltic states to increase their defense spending. "The events in Ukraine show that this struggle is taking place within Europe as well," he said in a speech to the Baltic Defense College last week. "This sends a clear signal to Estonia and the [other] Baltic states: we must invest more in our national defense." Estonia, along with Latvia and Lithuania, joined NATO in 2004.

"The Baltic states have been among the most vocal EU states during this crisis, urging Russia to abandon its military intervention in Ukraine and respect Ukrainian territorial integrity," Erik Brattberg, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told me. "They will watch the events in Ukraine closely to see if the U.S. and NATO will stand up against Russian aggression."

Recent experiences with Russia also fuel Estonia's concerns. The removal of a Soviet-era war statue from the capital city of Tallinn in 2007 led to riots among ethnic Russians (who make up almost a quarter of Estonia's population) and diplomatic outrage from Moscow. Shortly thereafter, a concerted, three-week cyberattack crippled Estonian government agencies, banks, news outlets, and other organizations—a vital blow to what some have called "the most wired country in Europe." Estonian officials blamed the Kremlin for the cyberattacks, a claim Russian officials vociferously denied.

Flag-burning. A country's national flag symbolises that country. Her identity. Who she is ... what she stands for. A belligerent power, in taking over another country .. doesn't such a military action as that constitute the military equivalent of flag burning, Balu ?

I don't doubt for a millisecond that you'd be outraged at any public display of the burning of your own country's flag. But what about 'satellite' countries, Balu ?

Is it different for them ? Do you, I wonder, INSIST that it is ?

[aboutime]

He could probably still log in from Mexico. I suppose he couldn't vote here anymore. Theoretically


Black Diamond. My only intent is to introduce pete to REALITY, and the REALITY of life. Of course, he could still log in from Mexico. But I wonder how long he would love being there when a member of a gang, or Cartel comes to his door, and demands money as protection against other gangs who hate GRINGO's so much...they use them as part of the Paving operation for streets, and highways...permanently flat, and overrun!:laugh:

[pete311]

Black Diamond. My only intent is to introduce pete to REALITY, and the REALITY of life.

before you share with me your reality, take your meds first

[aboutime]

before you share with me your reality, take your meds first



Thanks pete. I will. And AT LEAST....my meds are LEGAL. You should see a Dr. soon. It's obvious your drugs have destroyed your ability to think, speak, and not make a fool of yourself. That's YOUR REALITY.

[jimnyc]

before you share with me your reality, take your meds first

Seriously, I hope that someone turns you into an American flag, and places you in front of Trump Tower.

[aboutime]

before you share with me your reality, take your meds first


In case you didn't get the message previously pete...PLEASE do us a favor..

http://icansayit.com/images/burnflagwrap.jpg

CONSTITUTIONALLY....YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO IT, AND NONE OF US CAN STOP YOU.

[aboutime]

Let's see how much pete disagree's with Hillary, and calls her the same kind of names he used against all of us...not to mention...TRUMP.

http://youtu.be/6M9tJa5ffrQ

[Balu]

Flag as a symbol. Try to look at this subject from this angel. It may clarify "what is what".

http://b1.m24.ru/c/213546.730xp.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBoI6UGQ0xw

And more.
If the combat unit loses its flag, it shall be subject to disband.

[Elessar]

before you share with me your reality, take your meds first

My reality is not medicine, marijuana, or drug based. It's people based.
What is yours? Getting doped up and clinging to liberal crying points?

[NightTrain]

Thanks pete. I will. And AT LEAST....my meds are LEGAL. You should see a Dr. soon. It's obvious your drugs have destroyed your ability to think, speak, and not make a fool of yourself. That's YOUR REALITY.

Oh, snap!

The truthful burns are the best.

[sundaydriver]

This hole thing is what is known as a a two-fer. Cause a distraction and stir the base. Nothing to see here if you're really looking.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmG4GUjesig

[fj1200]

I agree with him. And I agree with punishments and fines. I'm all for freedom of speech as folks now, but I don't see this as "speech" in any way, shape or form. It would likely never happen of course, as the SC has already addressed this, and I can't imagine that changing, even with a conservative leaning court - but I wish they would. And I know some Democrats feel similarly.

Hopefully especially with a conservative leaning court:


The flag of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_States) is sometimes symbolically burned, often in protest of the policies of the American government, both within the country and abroad. The United States Supreme Court (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Supreme_Court) in Texas v. Johnson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson), 491 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases,_volume_ 491) U.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Reports) 397 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/397/) (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Eichman), 496 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Supreme_Court_cases,_volume_ 496)U.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Reports) 310 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/496/310/) (1990) ...

Scalia in the majority both times.

[Gunny]

I am very much of the same thought. However, you can bet your last donut that I won't forget such action.fer

Am I allowed to kill some MFers Sergeant Major?

Say the word.

[Elessar]

fer

Am I allowed to kill some MFers Sergeant Major?

Say the word.

Do it legally! Let them come to you and assault your first!
:laugh:

[Gunny]

6 years ago lol. I don't post anywhere else. I was not aware of Hillary's stance 6 years ago. I was likely traveling the world. I would have been against it anyway. You can calm your little crusade here. Remember me.Pete? Let's dance loser.

You think you been around the world more than us? For fucking real?

Man the fuck up.

[CSM]

fer

Am I allowed to kill some MFers Sergeant Major?

Say the word.

Meh, they are not worth the time and effort. Save the ammo for the big game. Little college dweebs make for lousy wall mounts....

[pete311]

Remember me.Pete? Let's dance loser.

You think you been around the world more than us? For fucking real?

Man the fuck up.

ugh what?