ACLU Upset With Springdale Police Plate Scanner

[Trinity]

Not sure how I feel about this one yet I just woke up but knowing me it's probably going to piss me off once I am fully functional.




ACLU Upset With Springdale Police Plate Scanner

POSTED: 7:37 am EDT July 30, 2007
UPDATED: 7:50 am EDT July 30, 2007

SPRINGDALE, Ohio -- Police in Springdale have turned to a mechanical watchdog that scans license plates on passing cars to try to snare fugitives, a practice that has drawn the attention of those who say it's an infringement on a driver's right to privacy.

The Mobile Plate Hunter 900 -- two cameras mounted atop a cruiser -- can read up to 900 license plates an hour on vehicles driving at highway speeds.

Some plates are difficult for the $20,000 machine to read because of awkward angles and other reasons, but it charts an estimated 85 to 90 percent of the plates that pass its radar. The numbers are matched with a computerized list from the National Crime Information Center.

"It's unreal," Springdale Police Chief Mike Laage said. "It's the best technology out there."

The State Highway Patrol has been using the plate hunter in six spots along the Ohio Turnpike, but Springdale police are the first to use it on regular patrols.

Since the patrol began using the scanners in 2004, it has recovered 95 stolen cars -- valued at $740,000 -- and made 111 arrests, said patrol spokesman Lt. Shawn Davis. The plate hunter has made roads safer, he said.

The scanner's gaze is too wide and it's an infringement against the innocent drivers whose plates get captured, said Jeff Gamso, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio.

Using the plate hunter to scan all license plates is a civil rights violation and could lead to government abuse of the information, Gamso said.

"I think they should just knock it off," Gamso said. "Is the marginal benefit likely outweighing the danger of increased surveillance of everything we do?"

Laage finds nothing wrong with casting the wide net.

"Our citizens want us to be able to catch the criminal. We're not stopping individuals at random or for no cause," he said.

Since the department began using the plate scanner in June, routine patrols have read more than 86,000 plates. Each morning, Springdale Lt. Bill Fields downloads 380,000 of the most recent plates of cars entered into the information's center's system.

The plates could belong to stolen cars or be owned by people with outstanding felony warrants. The first arrest that resulted from the program was a man wanted on a burglary charge. The department soon hopes to download the plate numbers of people wanted for misdemeanors, Fields said.

Every plate being scanned won't be tossed away but stored for future use. Once a warrant is issued on a plate, officers can pull up the previously scanned data, using coordinates on a map to pinpoint the exact location and time of the car when it was identified.

Laage isn't worried whether that will raise more privacy issues.

"We're equipping our officers to do the best job possible," Laage said. "The ACLU can claim an issue here, but we rely on court decisions in regards to what's legal and what's not legal, not the ACLU."

[Joe Steel]

Not sure how I feel about this one yet I just woke up but knowing me it's probably going to piss me off once I am fully functional.

ACLU Upset With Springdale Police Plate Scanner

POSTED: 7:37 am EDT July 30, 2007
UPDATED: 7:50 am EDT July 30, 2007

SPRINGDALE, Ohio -- Police in Springdale have turned to a mechanical watchdog that scans license plates on passing cars to try to snare fugitives, a practice that has drawn the attention of those who say it's an infringement on a driver's right to privacy.

This is an excellent idea but it's not enough. We need to put chips in cars which the police can poll for identity when they need it.

[Nukeman]

very slippery slope IMO. I think in theory its a great idea for catching felons but for them to upload the information on misdemeanors is a little over the top.

I think it does open the door for possible abuse. That being said you cant fault something on "maybe" and "what if".

I think it should only have the information on felons and stolen cars only!!!!! Of course thats just my opinion....

[Trinity]

very slippery slope IMO. I think in theory its a great idea for catching felons but for them to upload the information on misdemeanors is a little over the top.

I think it does open the door for possible abuse. That being said you cant fault something on "maybe" and "what if".

I think it should only have the information on felons and stolen cars only!!!!! Of course thats just my opinion....


I can go along with that. That would be acceptable. Felons and stolen cars only!

[waterrescuedude2000]

I can go along with that. That would be acceptable. Felons and stolen cars only!

We forgot the sex offenders. Need to harass and monitor them too.

[nevadamedic]

We forgot the sex offenders. Need to harass and monitor them too.

Only tiers 2 and 3... Tier 1 is mostly someone who is like 18 with someone whos like 16.............. Non-Felony crimes.

[CockySOB]

I like it. The technology is no more intrusive than having a few more pairs of eyes watching license plates and running them against the NCIC database. This is what makes the ACLU position untenable - there is no intrusion.

Frankly, I'm amazed they hit 85 to 90 percent recognition with their modified optical character recognition engine, I would have guesstimated recognition might be closer to only 75 percent.

This is an example of tax dollars being well-used.

[Missileman]

I like it. The technology is no more intrusive than having a few more pairs of eyes watching license plates and running them against the NCIC database. This is what makes the ACLU position untenable - there is no intrusion.

Frankly, I'm amazed they hit 85 to 90 percent recognition with their modified optical character recognition engine, I would have guesstimated recognition might be closer to only 75 percent.

This is an example of tax dollars being well-used.

ITA. Operating a motor vehicle on public roads implies consent. This will be an excellent tool for law enforcement. Those of us without warrants have no reason to fear it.

[Gaffer]

It's good, but will be abused. Going after felons and stolen cars is fine. But creating a data base of all cars scanned is not necessary. Neither is going after misdemeanor warrants.

The idea is to catch criminals that are already wanted or have stolen a vehicle. Not to establish a data base of everyone they see and record. Or for that matter to go after someone that didn't pay a traffic ticket.

It sounds like a good idea that needs some sort of oversight.

[Mr. P]

Geee only $20,000 per machine? Just think, the state issued the tag and ALREADY has the number, along with the name and ADDRESS of the owner...go figure.

[Missileman]

Geee only $20,000 per machine? Just think, the state issued the tag and ALREADY has the number, along with the name and ADDRESS of the owner...go figure.

They recovered $740,000 worth of stolen cars. Sounds like a pretty good return to me.

[CockySOB]

They recovered $740,000 worth of stolen cars. Sounds like a pretty good return to me.

Not to mention at $20,000 per unit, a department could purchase 3-4 units for the same money it would take to hire/maintain an additional officer or patrolman per year. The ROI on this goes from better to excellent.

Frankly this is a logical extension/evolution of the photo radar systems which have been implemented successfully.

[Mr. P]

Guys, my point is the state already has the info. why spend more money?
Just search the tag data base.

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Of course it will be abused.
Power always is.

That bein' said, I agree that there is no intrusion, as long as the data isn't used for any other purpose but to catch car thieves.

But, when average citizens start gettin harassed because of who they are, then we have a problem.

This is not a "Big Brother" issue, since the scanner doesn't actually make assessments.
That still takes a person.

Unfortunately, an honest cop is hard to find.

[Mr. P]

Of course it will be abused.
Power always is.

That bein' said, I agree that there is no intrusion, as long as the data isn't used for any other purpose but to catch car thieves.

But, when average citizens start gettin harassed because of who they are, then we have a problem.

This is not a "Big Brother" issue, since the scanner doesn't actually make assessments.
That still takes a person.

Unfortunately, an honest cop is hard to find.

Honest here would only be based on what's in the data base. Maybe some judgment tossed in, in case of errors. Still, that can all be done now.

I agree it's NOT an intrusion.

[Missileman]

Guys, my point is the state already has the info. why spend more money?
Just search the tag data base.

You can't find a stolen car by going to it's registered address.

[CockySOB]

Guys, my point is the state already has the info. why spend more money?
Just search the tag data base.

The DMV's primary interest is licensing vehicles for legal use on public byways and collecting revenues to the state DOT.

The primary goal of this program is to provide law enforcement more surveillance power through automating vehicle recognition and comparing recognized vehicles against a database of current wants. Again, the premise parallels the radar-photo systems used to enforce traffic laws around the country.

[CockySOB]

You can't find a stolen car by going to it's registered address.

Think in terms of rapid response to Amber Alerts, hit and runs, carjackings....

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Plus, as you said, it'll provide better way to track unregistered and inspected vehicles than it will anything else.

More state revenue.

As usual, it all boils down to money.

I wonder how many of the conservatards that support this would do so if they knew it was to feed the democraps special interests budget?

[darin]

I wonder how many of the conservatards that support this would do so if they knew it was to feed the democraps special interests budget?

EVERY Traffic law is mostly-geared to feed special-interest budgets. :(

[red states rule]

The ACLU has been protecting the rights of criminals and terrorists for many years. While handcuffing the hands of law enforcement at the same time

[theHawk]

Not sure why some of you wouldn't want outstanding misdemeanor offenders caught by this. How would you feel if someone committed a misdemeanor against you or your property and was never caught and the police scanned his plate and just let him go?

[red states rule]

Not sure why some of you wouldn't want outstanding misdemeanor offenders caught by this. How would you feel if someone committed a misdemeanor against you or your property and was never caught and the police scanned his plate and just let him go?

I think it is the way the media has painted the Police as racists and bullies; and the "big brother" talking point

[Spyder Jerusalem]

I think it is the way the media has painted the Police as racists and bullies

They are.

No paint job necessary.

Findin an honest cop is like findin' an intelligent conservatard.

A rare enough occurrence that it surprises every time.

[theHawk]

Findin an honest cop is like findin' an intelligent conservatard.

Yea, don't ya just hate it when people stereotype groups?

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Yea, don't ya just hate it when people stereotype groups?

Hmmm?

Tend to the beam in yer own eye, hypocrite.

[theHawk]

Hmmm?

Tend to the beam in yer own eye, hypocrite.

lol, can't take a joke can we?
I'd ask you to pull the weed out of your ass but your so uptight I wouldn't want you to lobotomize yourself.



Carry on, slapnuts.

[Hagbard Celine]

Police state alert. Police state alert. Police state alert. They've taken-over right under our noses and we can't even own automatic weapons to defend against them.

[nevadamedic]

Not sure how I feel about this one yet I just woke up but knowing me it's probably going to piss me off once I am fully functional.




ACLU Upset With Springdale Police Plate Scanner

POSTED: 7:37 am EDT July 30, 2007
UPDATED: 7:50 am EDT July 30, 2007

SPRINGDALE, Ohio -- Police in Springdale have turned to a mechanical watchdog that scans license plates on passing cars to try to snare fugitives, a practice that has drawn the attention of those who say it's an infringement on a driver's right to privacy.

The Mobile Plate Hunter 900 -- two cameras mounted atop a cruiser -- can read up to 900 license plates an hour on vehicles driving at highway speeds.

Some plates are difficult for the $20,000 machine to read because of awkward angles and other reasons, but it charts an estimated 85 to 90 percent of the plates that pass its radar. The numbers are matched with a computerized list from the National Crime Information Center.

"It's unreal," Springdale Police Chief Mike Laage said. "It's the best technology out there."

The State Highway Patrol has been using the plate hunter in six spots along the Ohio Turnpike, but Springdale police are the first to use it on regular patrols.

Since the patrol began using the scanners in 2004, it has recovered 95 stolen cars -- valued at $740,000 -- and made 111 arrests, said patrol spokesman Lt. Shawn Davis. The plate hunter has made roads safer, he said.

The scanner's gaze is too wide and it's an infringement against the innocent drivers whose plates get captured, said Jeff Gamso, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio.

Using the plate hunter to scan all license plates is a civil rights violation and could lead to government abuse of the information, Gamso said.

"I think they should just knock it off," Gamso said. "Is the marginal benefit likely outweighing the danger of increased surveillance of everything we do?"

Laage finds nothing wrong with casting the wide net.

"Our citizens want us to be able to catch the criminal. We're not stopping individuals at random or for no cause," he said.

Since the department began using the plate scanner in June, routine patrols have read more than 86,000 plates. Each morning, Springdale Lt. Bill Fields downloads 380,000 of the most recent plates of cars entered into the information's center's system.

The plates could belong to stolen cars or be owned by people with outstanding felony warrants. The first arrest that resulted from the program was a man wanted on a burglary charge. The department soon hopes to download the plate numbers of people wanted for misdemeanors, Fields said.

Every plate being scanned won't be tossed away but stored for future use. Once a warrant is issued on a plate, officers can pull up the previously scanned data, using coordinates on a map to pinpoint the exact location and time of the car when it was identified.

Laage isn't worried whether that will raise more privacy issues.

"We're equipping our officers to do the best job possible," Laage said. "The ACLU can claim an issue here, but we rely on court decisions in regards to what's legal and what's not legal, not the ACLU."

I don't agree with this one. All's a criminal has to do is borrow a friends car. Even if the car belonged to a criminal they don't know for sure that he/she is in there. They could have very well lent their vehicle out.

[darin]

Hmmm?

Tend to the beam in yer own eye, hypocrite.

Seriously, he's right. You are so double-minded. You're quickly becoming the joke of the board; talking out both sides of your mouth.

[nevadamedic]

Seriously, he's right. You are so double-minded. You're quickly becoming the joke of the board; talking out both sides of your mouth.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[red states rule]

Police state alert. Police state alert. Police state alert. They've taken-over right under our noses and we can't even own automatic weapons to defend against them.

It looks like the left supports the Police as much as they support the troops