Dear Nighttrain [Archive] - Debate Policy

Kathianne

11-09-2016, 08:27 AM

I'll say that I never got quite as down as Jim, but certainly thought NT was delusional. I thought it'd be a squeaker for the last few weeks, but looks like the train plowed right through.

I will be happy if NT's and you all's optimism about his winning comes to pass. Certainly would feel worse if Hillary had won, I KNOW how her administration would have been. So for now, I don't like HIM, but I do hope he is what you all hoped for! It'd work for me too.

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 08:30 AM

I'm just relieved that our kids and grandkids have a shot at the American Dream now, instead of the appalling direction the country has been lurching toward - a PC Venezuela or Greece.

jimnyc

11-09-2016, 08:37 AM

I'll say that I never got quite as down as Jim

I hope folks don't see me as have given up. I have lost a LOT of hope for America, and as a result of many events, I didn't think Trump had much of a chance at all. Hell, look at the polls and pundits, I surely wasn't alone. I prayed, and wanted, and posted as if I still wanted him though. I was just being realistic from all that I had learned.

But I had donated a few hundred bucks overall to the campaign, and then some extra money went in that direction via a hat and other things like that. I'd like to think my tiny little effort helped.

My faith entirely can't be restored in a few short hours. The DOJ/FBI/NEWS still pulled the crap they did. The stink won't go away. We still have term limits that will make this shit happen every 4 years.

But, but, but - is it possible that the totality of the American people was stronger in this instance? I didn't think that would happen, but it did. And that's EXACTLY what I think happened and put him over the top - the citizens of the USA sent a very strong rebuke to those folks. We handled what they wouldn't.

Trump was more than kind and respectful enough to congratulate "Secretary Clinton" when he accepted last night. I still see her as crooked Hillary, and she should still be held accountable.

OCA

11-09-2016, 08:45 AM

I hope folks don't see me as have given up. I have lost a LOT of hope for America, and as a result of many events, I didn't think Trump had much of a chance at all. Hell, look at the polls and pundits, I surely wasn't alone. I prayed, and wanted, and posted as if I still wanted him though. I was just being realistic from all that I had learned.

But I had donated a few hundred bucks overall to the campaign, and then some extra money went in that direction via a hat and other things like that. I'd like to think my tiny little effort helped.

My faith entirely can't be restored in a few short hours. The DOJ/FBI/NEWS still pulled the crap they did. The stink won't go away. We still have term limits that will make this shit happen every 4 years.

But, but, but - is it possible that the totality of the American people was stronger in this instance? I didn't think that would happen, but it did. And that's EXACTLY what I think happened and put him over the top - the citizens of the USA sent a very strong rebuke to those folks. We handled what they wouldn't.

Trump was more than kind and respectful enough to congratulate "Secretary Clinton" when he accepted last night. I still see her as crooked Hillary, and she should still be held accountable.

I predict a full presidential pardon same as Ford did for Nixon. Kind of a parting shot to the jaw by Obama if you will.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 08:47 AM

I hope folks don't see me as have given up. I have lost a LOT of hope for America, and as a result of many events, I didn't think Trump had much of a chance at all. Hell, look at the polls and pundits, I surely wasn't alone. I prayed, and wanted, and posted as if I still wanted him though. I was just being realistic from all that I had learned.

But I had donated a few hundred bucks overall to the campaign, and then some extra money went in that direction via a hat and other things like that. I'd like to think my tiny little effort helped.

My faith entirely can't be restored in a few short hours. The DOJ/FBI/NEWS still pulled the crap they did. The stink won't go away. We still have term limits that will make this shit happen every 4 years.

But, but, but - is it possible that the totality of the American people was stronger in this instance? I didn't think that would happen, but it did. And that's EXACTLY what I think happened and put him over the top - the citizens of the USA sent a very strong rebuke to those folks. We handled what they wouldn't.

Trump was more than kind and respectful enough to congratulate "Secretary Clinton" when he accepted last night. I still see her as crooked Hillary, and she should still be held accountable.

Don't EVEN try talking your way out of this one. If you hadn't tossed in the towel it was hanging on one finger over the ringpost.:slap:

No Hillary. What more could go right? I don't care why. I thank everyone that voted against her.

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 08:50 AM

I hope folks don't see me as have given up. I have lost a LOT of hope for America, and as a result of many events, I didn't think Trump had much of a chance at all. Hell, look at the polls and pundits, I surely wasn't alone. I prayed, and wanted, and posted as if I still wanted him though. I was just being realistic from all that I had learned.

But I had donated a few hundred bucks overall to the campaign, and then some extra money went in that direction via a hat and other things like that. I'd like to think my tiny little effort helped.

My faith entirely can't be restored in a few short hours. The DOJ/FBI/NEWS still pulled the crap they did. The stink won't go away. We still have term limits that will make this shit happen every 4 years.

But, but, but - is it possible that the totality of the American people was stronger in this instance? I didn't think that would happen, but it did. And that's EXACTLY what I think happened and put him over the top - the citizens of the USA sent a very strong rebuke to those folks. We handled what they wouldn't.

Trump was more than kind and respectful enough to congratulate "Secretary Clinton" when he accepted last night. I still see her as crooked Hillary, and she should still be held accountable.

The rallies, man! There was so much more enthusiasm and turnout at Trump's rallies as opposed to Brand X.

The polls didn't equal what the rallies were consistently showing by a long shot, and were being tampered with.

Besides that, the Creamer / Foval thugs got shut down early - O'Keefe and WikiLeaks had a huge impact and I don't think this would have happened if not for their efforts to expose the DNC machine.

CSM

11-09-2016, 08:51 AM

I predict a full presidential pardon same as Ford did for Nixon. Kind of a parting shot to the jaw by Obama if you will.

I was thinking along the same lines but perhaps for different reasons. I would not be surprised if Trump pardoned Clinton. That would clear the decks of unwanted debris, remove her from the spotlight (at least for the short term) and allow a Trump administration to move on to other (and perhaps more productive) things.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 08:55 AM

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 08:58 AM

I was thinking along the same lines but perhaps for different reasons. I would not be surprised if Trump pardoned Clinton. That would clear the decks of unwanted debris, remove her from the spotlight (at least for the short term) and allow a Trump administration to move on to other (and perhaps more productive) things.

Disagree.

Part of draining the swamp includes the Hag living in the middle of it.

I think the FBI will be directed to perform their duties again, this time without a Chicago Mob overseeing the investigation. The FBI - and especially the DOJ - has a lot of ground to make up to be seen as impartial professionals again.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9457&stc=1

CSM

11-09-2016, 09:04 AM

Disagree.

Part of draining the swamp includes the Hag living in the middle of it.

I think the FBI will be directed to perform their duties again, this time without a Chicago Mob overseeing the investigation. The FBI - and especially the DOJ - has a lot of ground to make up to be seen as impartial professionals again.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9457&stc=1

It depends what he pardons her for.... the whole email/classified information thing is what I would think he would pardon. That may not include the whole cabal regarding the Clinton Foundation. That type of corruption (if proven) just might be more of a threat to national security than the whole email thing. Then again, he may not pardon her at all and instead have her burned at the stake on the front lawn of the White House.....

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 09:11 AM

It depends what he pardons her for.... the whole email/classified information thing is what I would think he would pardon. That may not include the whole cabal regarding the Clinton Foundation. That type of corruption (if proven) just might be more of a threat to national security than the whole email thing. Then again, he may not pardon her at all and instead have her burned at the stake on the front lawn of the White House.....

I thought about Obama pardoning Hillary, but at this point she is completely devoid of usefulness to him - I think further meddling in justice being served will only tarnish him further.

His all-important legacy is shot, and he knows it. A pardon would only pour more fuel on the fire, IMO.

That's not to say that he's not going to go on a frenzy in these last few days of his presidency... I'm expecting a rampage of pardons and national monuments / parks because he's got nothing to lose now. But Hillary is useless to him now.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 09:17 AM

I thought about Obama pardoning Hillary, but at this point she is completely devoid of usefulness to him - I think further meddling in justice being served will only tarnish him further.

His all-important legacy is shot, and he knows it. A pardon would only pour more fuel on the fire, IMO.

That's not to say that he's not going to go on a frenzy in these last few days of his presidency... I'm expecting a rampage of pardons and national monuments / parks because he's got nothing to lose now. But Hillary is useless to him now.

I think he needs to get his house in order first. Obama's going to do what he's going to do. Trump can reverse any signing statement. He's got to get a semi-hostile RNC/GOP in line or they can screw him in Congress. I watched the Dems do it to Carter. And if we know one thing the GOP isn't afraid of, it's screwing its own.

CSM

11-09-2016, 09:17 AM

I thought about Obama pardoning Hillary, but at this point she is completely devoid of usefulness to him - I think further meddling in justice being served will only tarnish him further.

His all-important legacy is shot, and he knows it. A pardon would only pour more fuel on the fire, IMO.

That's not to say that he's not going to go on a frenzy in these last few days of his presidency... I'm expecting a rampage of pardons and national monuments / parks because he's got nothing to lose now. But Hillary is useless to him now.

I guess we are talking past each other...I was thinking more along the lines of TRUMP pardoning HRC for the whole email thing. Obama may pardon her (wouldn't be surprised if he did) because, as you say, his legacy is shot anyway.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 09:20 AM

revelarts

11-09-2016, 09:22 AM

Might have missed this one, but can one who has not even been indicted be pardoned?

If a President can claim PRE-EMPTIVE War powers. I don't see why PRE-EMPTIVE Pardons would be ruled out of line.
who really cares about the constitution anymore anyway.

revelarts

11-09-2016, 09:23 AM

NT congrats on calling it.

CSM

11-09-2016, 09:24 AM

Might have missed this one, but can one who has not even been indicted be pardoned?

I do believe they can. Of course, doing so implies there MAY have been a crime committed in the first place.....

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 09:25 AM

I guess we are talking past each other...I was thinking more along the lines of TRUMP pardoning HRC for the whole email thing. Obama may pardon her (wouldn't be surprised if he did) because, as you say, his legacy is shot anyway.

Ah, gotcha.

I suppose Trump could pardon her, but that would alienate the millions like me that believe in the Crooked Hillary assertion. I can't see any upside of Trump doing something like that, other than, like you said, clearing the slate and getting on with business by removing a distraction.

But regaining public confidence in the FBI / DOJ has to be an important goal, and showing future Clintons that you are NOT above the law, no matter how powerful you are in political circles.

Watching the Clintons skate for the last 30 years of scandal after scandal with clear corruption is galling when we all know that lesser crimes have been punished swiftly and severely for less well-connected figures.

CSM

11-09-2016, 09:29 AM

Ah, gotcha.

I suppose Trump could pardon her, but that would alienate the millions like me that believe in the Crooked Hillary assertion. I can't see any upside of Trump doing something like that, other than, like you said, clearing the slate and getting on with business by removing a distraction.

But regaining public confidence in the FBI / DOJ has to be an important goal, and showing future Clintons that you are NOT above the law, no matter how powerful you are in political circles.

Watching the Clintons skate for the last 30 years of scandal after scandal with clear corruption is galling when we all know that lesser crimes have been punished swiftly and severely for less well-connected figures.

There is that. Lots of people and organizations are collateral damage because of the recent events. The IRS, FBI, DOJ, DNC and the MSM all (and probably many more) have taken a hit where integrity is concerned.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 09:32 AM

I do believe they can. Of course, doing so implies there MAY have been a crime committed in the first place.....

I would think the opposite true. Not saying it can't or won't be done. One would think at least an indictment was required.

Was I Obama I'd throw her under the bus.

CSM

11-09-2016, 09:37 AM

Can you be pardoned for something you have not been charged with?

"A presidential pardon may be granted at any time, however, and as when Ford pardoned Nixon, the pardoned person need not yet have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime ...." according to Wikipedia and google

Gunny

11-09-2016, 09:49 AM

"A presidential pardon may be granted at any time, however, and as when Ford pardoned Nixon, the pardoned person need not yet have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime ...." according to Wikipedia and google

Upon further review, and not because of current events specifically, I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable with that pardon list going through Congress.

CSM

11-09-2016, 10:00 AM

Upon further review, and not because of current events specifically, I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable with that pardon list going through Congress.

Yeah, that only works if the party you adhere to is in power....

Abbey Marie

11-09-2016, 10:15 AM

Might have missed this one, but can one who has not even been indicted be pardoned?

Theres a thread here about that somewhere. IIRC, I started it.

Abbey Marie

11-09-2016, 10:16 AM

Let's not overlook the fact that we have Congress, too.

:cool:

Gunny

11-09-2016, 10:32 AM

Yeah, that only works if the party you adhere to is in power....

I'm not real keen on there being no oversight on much of anything. All 3 branches of our government and a LOT of the people seem to have forgotten the meaning of that word.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 10:34 AM

Let's not overlook the fact that we have Congress, too.

:cool:

Might have a point IF:

Trump also has Congress; and,

A Republican Congress doesn't act like it has the past 20 years and accomplish nothing.

CSM

11-09-2016, 10:35 AM

I'm not real keen on there being no oversight on much of anything. All 3 branches of our government and a LOT of the people seem to have forgotten the meaning of that word.

Well, apparently the US voting public is not as apathetic as some believed nor are they as uninformed and uneducated as the elitist have affirmed... just sayin

Gunny

11-09-2016, 10:45 AM

Well, apparently the US voting public is not as apathetic as some believed nor are they as uninformed and uneducated as the elitist have affirmed... just sayin

Guilty as charged. Every indication, to include the last two elections would leave most to come to that conclusion. It's not like the media was presenting an unbiased assessment. They're backpedaling at this moment still. Avoiding everything but the fact Hillary lost.

Can't wait to see how they skew the numbers.

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 10:58 AM

CSM

11-09-2016, 11:03 AM

Another important thing is that Trump won the popular vote in addition to the electoral college.

This would have immediately been the go-to issue of liberal moaning & hand wringing about how it's so unfair.

I am just waiting for the libs/dems to start complaining about the "stupid, ignorant, uneducated. angry, white, male, redneck, etc..." crap to start flowing.

Gunny

11-09-2016, 11:12 AM

I am just waiting for the libs/dems to start complaining about the "stupid, ignorant, uneducated. angry, white, male, redneck, etc..." crap to start flowing.

Already on the View. We don't understand.:laugh:

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 01:08 PM

I am just waiting for the libs/dems to start complaining about the "stupid, ignorant, uneducated. angry, white, male, redneck, etc..." crap to start flowing.

Oh yeah.

I'm seeing that all over the web.

Funny how everyone is stoooopid except fellow moonbats who lose elections.

Their tears are delicious.

Abbey Marie

11-09-2016, 01:52 PM

Elessar

11-09-2016, 02:11 PM

Shell-shocked lib commentators are soothing themselves by chanting about how all the "uneducated white folks" voted for Trump. They will find a way to look down on us no matter what. I say, who cares? They LOST.

It is total BS and desperation on their part. They have to say something other than the fact
they have been completely wrong about labeling the opposition for so long.

Abbey Marie

11-09-2016, 03:00 PM

red states rule

11-09-2016, 03:04 PM

Shell-shocked lib commentators are soothing themselves by chanting about how all the "uneducated white folks" voted for Trump. They will find a way to look down on us no matter what. I say, who cares? They LOST.

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/bg110916dAPR20161109084525.jpg

red states rule

11-09-2016, 03:08 PM

I heard that she edged him out in the popular vote.

Yep, something for the libs to bitch about

It is like rubbing salt in their wounds

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2016/presidential-election-headquarters

NightTrain

11-09-2016, 03:17 PM

I heard that she edged him out in the popular vote.

You're right!

Looks like it changed since I posted that... she's 200k ahead right now, but the votes are still being tallied.

Kathianne

11-09-2016, 04:25 PM

You're right!

Looks like it changed since I posted that... she's 200k ahead right now, but the votes are still being tallied.

Last I checked, AZ, MI, NH are still not totaled. I think he'll pull off popular vote too.

Abbey Marie

11-09-2016, 06:20 PM

I have an NYC relative who is already talking about how Dems should move to a state where the popular vote was close, so they can make a difference for next time.

:blah: :waaaah:

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/32084587.jpg

Kathianne

11-09-2016, 08:12 PM

My children are gnashing their teeth, calling me for comfort. Future daughter-in-law and sister starting some 'Love Trumps Hate' group. I love them, but...

I told them the same I told others here and in real life back in 2008, 'give them a chance, at least 6 months.' Granted, it just kept going downhill with Obama, but I will certainly give him a chance. As I said last night, the past 2 weeks and his acceptance speech were a very good start. I hope he keeps that persona.

On the down side-I do think he's liberal, so we'll see how that plays out.