Giving weapons to the Saudis

[avatar4321]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html

I cant help but think this is not a good idea. I know we need to stop Iran. But isnt this just going to make things worse?

[nevadamedic]

A lot worse, we can't trust any of them.

[Sitarro]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html

I cant help but think this is not a good idea. I know we need to stop Iran. But isnt this just going to make things worse?

If we don't sell them to them, Russia will. When we sell weapon systems to foreign buyers, they are not the latest versions. Besides, we know those systems and know exactly how to defeat them.

[Gaffer]

If we don't sell them to them, Russia will. When we sell weapon systems to foreign buyers, they are not the latest versions. Besides, we know those systems and know exactly how to defeat them.

That, and if they don't cooperate with us we cut off the spare parts.

[gabosaurus]

We have given amply supplies of weapons to Iran and Iraq. Why not give them to the Saudis?

[Sitarro]

We have given amply supplies of weapons to Iran and Iraq. Why not give them to the Saudis?

They will be bought which will add to employment in this country to build them.

[Sitarro]

I guess this illustates the point I made earlier, if we don't sell to them they will get arms from Russia or Europe.



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1185379034835&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Reports: Iran to buy jets from Russia
By YAAKOV KATZ AND HERB KEINON


Israel is looking into reports that Russia plans to sell 250 advanced long-range Sukhoi-30 fighter jets to Iran in an unprecedented billion-dollar deal.

According to reports, in addition to the fighter jets, Teheran also plans to purchase a number of aerial fuel tankers that are compatible with the Sukhoi and capable of extending its range by thousands of kilometers. Defense officials said the Sukhoi sale would grant Iran long-range offensive capabilities.

Government officials voiced concern over the reports. They said Russia could be trying to compete with the United States, which announced over the weekend a billion-dollar arms sale to Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.


Israel wary of US arms sale to Saudis
Despite Israeli and US opposition, Russia recently supplied Iran with advanced antiaircraft systems used to protect Teheran's nuclear installations. At the time, Moscow said it reserved the right to sell Iran weapons, such as the antiaircraft system, that were of a defensive nature.

The Sukhoi-30 is a two-seat multi-role fighter jet and bomber capable of operating at significant distances from home base and in poor weather conditions. The aircraft enjoys a wide range of combat capabilities and is used for air patrol, air defense, ground attacks, enemy air defense suppression and air-to-air combat.

[Gunny]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html

I cant help but think this is not a good idea. I know we need to stop Iran. But isnt this just going to make things worse?

What's the difference between giving weapons to sunni Saudi Arabia and shia Iran? Both hate us. Iran is just honest about it.

[Hagbard Celine]

If we don't sell them to them, Russia will. When we sell weapon systems to foreign buyers, they are not the latest versions. Besides, we know those systems and know exactly how to defeat them.

Saudi Arabia is a safe haven for al-Qaeda. Most of the 911 hijackers were Saudis. This is just another example of how George Bush is selling America down the river.

*Edit: 15 of the 19 911 hijackers were Saudis and Osama bin Laden is Saudi.

[Dilloduck]

Saudi Arabia is a safe haven for al-Qaeda. Most of the 911 hijackers were Saudis. This is just another example of how George Bush is selling America down the river.

and a huge majority of murders in the US are committed by Americans. What's your point ?

[Monkeybone]

Su-30s? meh. doesn't Israel have some of our F-15s? those can take on Su's

[Hagbard Celine]

and a huge majority of murders in the US are committed by Americans. What's your point ?

Are you serious?

[Dilloduck]

And what's all this "giving" crap----It's a 30 billion dollar deal, not a christmas present.

[Dilloduck]

Are you serious?

So the logic is that whatever country a criminal is from is bad? People really need to get over this line of "reasoning".

[Sitarro]

Su-30s? meh. doesn't Israel have some of our F-15s? those can take on Su's

Flown by Israeli pilots against Iranian pilots........ no problem, a few f-15 will kick all of their asses.

[Hagbard Celine]

So the logic is that whatever country a criminal is from is bad? People really need to get over this line of "reasoning".

The logic is that Saudi Arabia funds and supports terrorism. Why are we selling them advanced weapons systems if they are funding and supporting terrorism? Why aren't we "preemptively invading" them?

[Dilloduck]

The logic is that Saudi Arabia funds and supports terrorism. Why are we selling them advanced weapons systems if they are funding and supporting terrorism? Why aren't we "preemptively invading" them?

I'm not so sure all Saudis act as one. I Mean somebody over there kicked bin Laden outta the country LONG ago. Are they all bad guys in Saudi Arabia or are we maybe selling arms to the good guys ?

[Hagbard Celine]

I'm not so sure all Saudis act as one. I Mean somebody over there kicked bin Laden outta the country LONG ago. Are they all bad guys in Saudi Arabia or are we maybe selling arms to the good guys ?

Hey, what a novel idea you've just had. All Iraqis don't act as one either. Neither do all Americans. Wow. Congratulations. You've just stumbled onto something billions of people knew about before you. From now on, I'm going to call you Christopher Columbus.

The Saudi government is run by Saudi royals (gangsters) and Shariah law. It's fact that Saudi Arabian sources remain one of the top economic funders of terrorism and terrorist groups in the world. On top of that, if you're still convinced of the cuddliness of our Saudi "allies," Saudi Arabia remains one of the world's top consumers of human trafficing and according to the CIA world factbook, has made no significant effort to curb this practice.

These guys are Muslim gangsters--nothing more. and our current administration is buddy-buddy with them and has been for two generations.

http://www.guerillastickers.com/bush-saudi-hands.jpg

[Sitarro]

The logic is that Saudi Arabia funds and supports terrorism. Why are we selling them advanced weapons systems if they are funding and supporting terrorism? Why aren't we "preemptively invading" them?

Hagbard,

Try educating yourself a little, you won't seem so silly.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:kaVbpbapE0oJ:www.ndu.edu/library/docs/crs/crs_rl32499_01mar05.pdf+saudi+arabia+governmental+ body.&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=safari


Saudi Arabia: Terrorist Financing Issues
Summary
The September 11, 2001 attacks fueled criticisms within the United States of
alleged Saudi involvement in terrorism or of Saudi laxity in acting against terrorist
groups. Of particular concern have been reports that funds may be flowing from
Saudi Arabia and other Middle East countries to terrorist groups, largely under the
guise of charitable contributions. Critics of Saudi policies have cited a number of
reports that the Saudi government has permitted or encouraged fund raising in Saudi
Arabia bycharitable Islamic groups and foundations linked to Osama bin Laden’s Al
Qaeda organization or like-minded entities.
The final report released by the bipartisan National Commission on Terrorist
Attacks Upon the United States (the 9/11 Commission) indicates that the
Commission “found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior
Saudi officials individuallyfunded [Al Qaeda].” The report also states, however, that
Saudi Arabia “was a place where Al Qaeda raised money directly from individuals
and through charities,” and indicates that “charities with significant Saudi
government sponsorship” may have diverted funding to Al Qaeda.
In numerous official statements and position papers, Saudi leaders have said
they are committed to cooperating with the United States in fighting terrorist
financing, pointing out that Saudi Arabiaitself is avictim of terrorism and shares the
U.S. interest in combatingit. Saudi leaders acknowledge providingfinancial support
for Islamic and Palestinian causes, but maintain that no Saudi support goes to any
terrorist organizations, such as the Hamas organization. The U.S. State Department
in its most recent annual report on international terrorism states that Hamas receives
some funds from individuals in the Persian Gulf states but does not specifically
mention Saudi Arabia.
Since the September 11 attacks, Saudi Arabia has issued numerous decrees and
created new institutions designed to tighten controls over the flow of funds in or
through the kingdom, with particular emphasis on increasing the effectiveness of
governmental supervision over charitable donations and collections. A rash of
terrorist attacks on residential and office compounds in Saudi Arabia in 2003-2004
appears to have given added impetus to the Saudi leadership in expanding counter-
terrorist efforts. Since mid-2003, the Saudi government has: set up a joint task force
with the United States to investigate terrorist financing in Saudi Arabia; shuttered
charitable organizations suspected of terrorist ties; passed anti-money laundering
legislation; banned cash collections at mosques; centralized control over charitable
collections; closed unlicenced moneyexchanges; and scrutinized clerics involved in
charitable collections. The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (P.L.
108-458) requires the President to submit to a strategy for U.S.-Saudi collaboration
to Congress, with special reference to combating terrorist financing.
For more information about Saudi Arabia, see CRS Issue Brief IB93113, Saudi
Arabia: Current Issues and U.S. Relations, byAlfred Prados. AudreyKurth Cronin
and Febe Armanios contributed to this report.

[Dilloduck]

Hey, what a novel idea you've just had. All Iraqis don't act as one either. Neither do all Americans. Wow. Congratulations. You've just stumbled onto something billions of people knew about before you. From now on, I'm going to call you Christopher Columbus.

The Saudi government is run by Saudi royals (gangsters) and Shariah law. It's fact that Saudi Arabian sources remain one of the top economic funders of terrorism and terrorist groups in the world. On top of that, if you're still convinced of the cuddliness of our Saudi "allies," Saudi Arabia remains one of the world's top consumers of human trafficing and according to the CIA world factbook, has made no significant effort to curb this practice.

These guys are Muslim gangsters--nothing more. and our current administration is buddy-buddy with them and has been for two generations.

http://www.guerillastickers.com/bush-saudi-hands.jpg

damn--now you confused me----first you said everyone in a country doesn't act or believe the same when and then went right into how they all are "Muslim Gangsters". Maybe you can tell me who the good guys are in Saudi Arabia.

[Gunny]

The logic is that Saudi Arabia funds and supports terrorism. Why are we selling them advanced weapons systems if they are funding and supporting terrorism? Why aren't we "preemptively invading" them?

We don't. Any weapons we sell to foreign nations are stripped of all but the most fundamental and widely available technology. The Russians do the same.

I don't think we should sell even THAT to SA.

[Spyder Jerusalem]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sa.html


current situation: Saudi Arabia is a destination country for workers from South and Southeast Asia who are subjected to conditions that constitute involuntary servitude including being subjected to physical and sexual abuse, non-payment of wages, confinement, and withholding of passports as a restriction on their movement; domestic workers are particularly vulnerable because some are confined to the house in which they work unable to seek help; Saudi Arabia is also a destination country for Nigerian, Yemeni, Pakistani, Afghan, Somali, Malian, and Sudanese children trafficked for forced begging and involuntary servitude as street vendors; some Nigerian women were reportedly trafficked into Saudi Arabia for commercial sexual exploitation
tier rating: Tier 3 - Saudi Arabia does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so

Why does Bush support people who support slavery?


since 2000, Saudi Arabia has committed $307 million for assistance to the Palestinians; pledged $230 million to development in Afghanistan; pledged $1 billion in export guarantees and soft loans to Iraq; pledged $133 million in direct grant aid, $187 million in concessional loans, and $153 million in export credits for Pakistan earthquake relief; pledged a total of $1.59 billion to Lebanon in assistance and deposits to the Central Bank of Lebanon in 2006 and pledged an additional $1.1 billion in early 2007

Why does Bush support people who bankroll our enemies?

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/sau-summary-eng


Gross human rights violations continued and were exacerbated by the government policy of “combating terrorism” in the wake of the 11 September 2001 attacks in the USA. The violations were perpetuated by the strictly secretive criminal justice system and the prohibition of political parties, trade unions and independent human rights organizations. Hundreds of suspected religious activists and critics of the state were arrested, and the legal status of most of those held from previous years remained shrouded in secrecy. Women continued to suffer severe discrimination. Torture and ill-treatment remained rife. At least 48 people were executed. Over 5,000 Iraqi refugees continued to live in Rafha camp as virtual prisoners. International non-governmental human rights organizations were denied access to the country and the government failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by AI during the year.

Why does Bush support people who torture and ignore human rights?

I'll tell ya fuckinj why!
Because Bush is just as much a fuckin' torturin' murderin' megalomaniacle fascist as Abdullah is, that's why.
They get along because they have so much in common.

[Sir Evil]

Why does Bush support people who support slavery?



Why are you just a douchebag? Honestly who really cares? So, why ask why?

[Hagbard Celine]

damn--now you confused me----first you said everyone in a country doesn't act or believe the same when and then went right into how they all are "Muslim Gangsters". Maybe you can tell me who the good guys are in Saudi Arabia.

Not everybody in Saudi Arabia is a royal Dillo. Take a deep breath and read what I wrote.

[Dilloduck]

Not everybody in Saudi Arabia is a royal Dillo. Take a deep breath and read what I wrote.

Royals bad--people good. That it?

[Kathianne]

Royals bad--people good. That it?

IMO they both suck. The Royals are selling us out, by allowing 'the people' to go for jihad and killing our troops. 'The people' are for a 7th C. world, which includes killing the West and Israel, not necessarily in that order.

[Dilloduck]

IMO they both suck. The Royals are selling us out, by allowing 'the people' to go for jihad and killing our troops. 'The people' are for a 7th C. world, which includes killing the West and Israel, not necessarily in that order.

SO who booted out bin laden--and why ?

[Kathianne]

SO who booted out bin laden--and why ?Twas the Royals. He id'd with the people and wanted the royals wiped out. He called for jihad upon them, then even his father disowned him.

[theHawk]

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sa.html



Why does Bush support people who support slavery?



Why does Bush support people who bankroll our enemies?

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/sau-summary-eng



Why does Bush support people who torture and ignore human rights?

For the same reason Clinton did. We all drive cars, and will for a long time. Don't blame Bush's methods for providing your car-crack.





I'll tell ya fuckinj why!
Because Bush is just as much a fuckin' torturin' murderin' megalomaniacle fascist as Abdullah is, that's why.
They get along because they have so much in common.

Oh, Bush is a bloodthristy baby killer! How original! :clap:

[Dilloduck]

Twas the Royals. He id'd with the people and wanted the royals wiped out. He called for jihad upon them, then even his father disowned him.

exactly---the enemy of our enemy is worth chumming around with--especially if they throw us a bone now and then.

[Kathianne]

exactly---the enemy of our enemy is worth chumming around with--especially if they throw us a bone now and then.

I no longer agree, though did at one point. Take out the terrorists, no holds barred.

[Dilloduck]

I no longer agree, though did at one point. Take out the terrorists, no holds barred.


I don't think invading SA would go over very well with anyone.

[Kathianne]

I don't think invading SA would go over very well with anyone.

Well the Iraqis, Egyptian, Jordanians, might be happy. However, in the main I agree with you. We do not have to supply them with arms however, and could punish any that do so.

[Dilloduck]

Well the Iraqis, Egyptian, Jordanians, might be happy. However, in the main I agree with you. We do not have to supply them with arms however, and could punish any that do so.

Just look at that 30 billion as money that won't go to bin ladens cult

[Spyder Jerusalem]

exactly---the enemy of our enemy is worth chumming around with--especially if they throw us a bone now and then.

Ethical bankruptcy is just a parlor game for republifascists.


Oh, Bush is a bloodthristy baby killer! How original!

Truth always is.

[Dilloduck]

Ethical bankruptcy is just a parlor game for republifascists.



Truth always is.

but ethical bankruptcy is such a great spectator sport---don't you always wonder how those guys can do all those "things" ?

[Pale Rider]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html

I cant help but think this is not a good idea. I know we need to stop Iran. But isnt this just going to make things worse?

Baaaaaad idea. More weapons in that part of the world is the LAST thing we need. It's just stupid.

We should be DISARMING them, not ARMING them. They've been fighting and spilling blood like mad men in the arab nations for millennia. I think we are supremely arrogant to think we can change that, especially when there's generations of young brain washed islamofacist jihadists ready, willing and able to kill in the name of allah.

What we should do instead is put the whole stinking muslim world on notice. Clean up your damn act, or we will, and start right here in America while we still can.

[manu1959]

Saudi Arabia is a safe haven for al-Qaeda. Most of the 911 hijackers were Saudis. This is just another example of how George Bush is selling America down the river.

*Edit: 15 of the 19 911 hijackers were Saudis and Osama bin Laden is Saudi.

true or false....clinton sold weapons to the saudis?

[Spyder Jerusalem]

"B-b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton...."

The conservatard battle-cry.

Next question:

Of the last four presidents, how many were conservatatard and how many sold weapons to the Saudis?

That's three republifascist presidents to one democrap that sold weapons to the Saudis.

Obviously, that's three times as bad as just little ol' worthless Clinton, ain't it?





:cool:

[Black Lance]

Hello Spyder, I suspected we would run into each other again sooner or later.



"B-b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton...."

The conservatard battle-cry.

Spyder, was it okay for Clinton to do it?

[Black Lance]

What we should do instead is put the whole stinking muslim world on notice. Clean up your damn act, or we will, and start right here in America while we still can.

We will.... do what, exactly?

[Spyder Jerusalem]

Oh, great, my other stalker has arrived.

He loves me so much, he'll cross the endless sea of virtuality to be by my side.

It's no secret about you Lance.
That nether place still resemble a wizard's sleeve, dear?

Ain't he sweeeeeet?

[Black Lance]

Well the Iraqis, Egyptian, Jordanians, might be happy. However, in the main I agree with you. We do not have to supply them with arms however, and could punish any that do so.

Why would moderate Arab states like Egyt and Jordan want for the US to invade Saudi Arabia? It's hard to imagine a better recruiting poster for extremist groups than photographs of US tanks rolling into Mecca. The only governments to be pleased by such an action would be the Syrians, the Iranians, and maybe Hamas in Palestine, if you want to count them as a legitimate government.

[Black Lance]

Oh, great, my other stalker has arrived.

He loves me so much, he'll cross the endless sea of virtuality to be by my side.

It's no secret about you Lance.
That nether place still resemble a wizard's sleeve, dear?

Ain't he sweeeeeet?

What a silly post. I did not follow you here, and just now discovered that you post on this site. I'm not even going to ask who your "other stalker" is.

My post to you was perfectly civil, and your hostile response was unneccessary. In any event, I'm not leaving this site just because you happen to also post here, so you have two options: you can respond to my politeness by being polite in turn, and we can turn a new page on a different site, or you can respond by being a prick, in which case I will ignore you and not respond to your posts in the future. Think what you will of me Spyder, but I'm not Ninja: If you want me to ignore, I will honor that request, no questions asked.

[Pale Rider]

We will.... do what, exactly?

Assimilate them into being true Americans, or deport them, along with all the rest of the illegal garbage in this country.

[Sitarro]

What a silly post. I did not follow you here, and just now discovered that you post on this site. I'm not even going to ask who your "other stalker" is.

My post to you was perfectly civil, and your hostile response was unneccessary. In any event, I'm not leaving this site just because you happen to also post here, so you have two options: you can respond to my politeness by being polite in turn, and we can turn a new page on a different site, or you can respond by being a prick, in which case I will ignore you and not respond to your posts in the future. Think what you will of me Spyder, but I'm not Ninja: If you want me to ignore, I will honor that request, no questions asked.

If the bald comic book clown with absolutely no style was at all observant, he would have noticed your member join date is a solid 3 months before his.

[Pale Rider]

What a silly post. I did not follow you here, and just now discovered that you post on this site. I'm not even going to ask who your "other stalker" is.

My post to you was perfectly civil, and your hostile response was unneccessary. In any event, I'm not leaving this site just because you happen to also post here, so you have two options: you can respond to my politeness by being polite in turn, and we can turn a new page on a different site, or you can respond by being a prick, in which case I will ignore you and not respond to your posts in the future. Think what you will of me Spyder, but I'm not Ninja: If you want me to ignore, I will honor that request, no questions asked.

From what I've been witness too, and the rest of the board including staff, spyder has already been warned about his mouth, your politeness is being wasted.

[Black Lance]

Assimilate them into being true Americans, or deport them, along with all the rest of the illegal garbage in this country.

Assimilate them how? Are you suggesting that the government should require them to learn English and ditch the burka, or do you propose that we force them to convert, or something like that?

Also, I must register my distaste for your referring to illegal immigrants as garbage. They have committed a serious crime by unlawfully entering the country, I don't deny that, but they are still human beings, and people are not garbage.

[Spyder Jerusalem]

What a silly post. I did not follow you here, and just now discovered that you post on this site. I'm not even going to ask who your "other stalker" is.

My post to you was perfectly civil, and your hostile response was unneccessary. In any event, I'm not leaving this site just because you happen to also post here, so you have two options: you can respond to my politeness by being polite in turn, and we can turn a new page on a different site, or you can respond by being a prick, in which case I will ignore you and not respond to your posts in the future. Think what you will of me Spyder, but I'm not Ninja: If you want me to ignore, I will honor that request, no questions asked.


Fine.

If you can do that, I can do the same.


or you can respond by being a prick

Its in my nature.

I'll tell ya this much, though.
I take two months off from any forums, and when I decide to start postin' again, at a brand new forum, suddenly you and another show up in threads I'm postin.

Coincidence?

A little too convenient if ya ask me.

But, hey, if you wanna back up an be civil, sure, I can do that.
Just remember, I give back everything I get in spades, bub.


but they are still human beings, and people are not garbage.

Thanks.

That's just what I said.

For once we can agree on something.

[Black Lance]

Its in my nature.

I'll tell ya this much, though.
I take two months off from any forums, and when I decide to start postin' again, at a brand new forum, suddenly you and another show up in threads I'm postin.

Coincidence?

A little too convenient if ya ask me.


Be paranoid if you wish Spyder, but as others have pointed out, I registered here three months before you did.

[Spyder Jerusalem]

And as I said, fine.

I just can't shake the feelin' that certain parties ran back to where you were and said "guess who I saw at D.P.?" and you came running.

There is quite a gap between posts.


Today, 12:45 AM
Giving weapons to the Saudis
Posted By Black Lance
Hello Spyder, I suspected we would run into each...

Hello Spyder, I suspected we would run into each other again sooner or later.



Spyder, was it okay for Clinton to do it?


Forum: 2008 Elections
07-25-2007, 01:56 AM
Why should Hillary Clinton be President?
Posted By Black Lance
True, but I don't know very many Democrats who've...

True, but I don't know very many Democrats who've got a shlong, so it isn't surprising that they don't recognize the one between Hillary Clinton's legs.

Between yer first post to me, and the last post you made is about, what, a week?
Yet, on your return, yer first post is directly to me?


Nope, not stalkin' me at all.... :lol:

[Black Lance]

You said you just finished taking two months off from posting, and yet you find it suspect that I might spend a week posting on only one board??? But, again, be paranoid if you wish.

[Sitarro]

If I was bald with a mole shaped like a lame spider on my head I would be paranoid too.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

[Gaffer]

Assimilate them into being true Americans, or deport them, along with all the rest of the illegal garbage in this country.

They just have to give up islam. They can't be true Americans without giving up islam. she'ra law and the constitution are not compatible.

[actsnoblemartin]

Giving military aid to the saudi's is like giving heroin to a junkie.. well intentioned but a bad idea.

[avatar4321]

"B-b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton...."

The conservatard battle-cry.

Next question:

Of the last four presidents, how many were conservatatard and how many sold weapons to the Saudis?

That's three republifascist presidents to one democrap that sold weapons to the Saudis.

Obviously, that's three times as bad as just little ol' worthless Clinton, ain't it?

:cool:

No. it just shows that the American people would rather elect Republicans than Democrats.

[avatar4321]

If the bald comic book clown with absolutely no style was at all observant, he would have noticed your member join date is a solid 3 months before his.

expecting him to actually pay attention? High standards here indeed:)