Pakistan threatens to DESTROY India with nuclear bomb

[jimnyc]

Damn, we need Gunny here to ask a few questions! What are the far reaching consequences if they actually did try something like this? If they did, would WE be in danger from fallout?

And Drummond and Noir - is the link for this article to a reputable site? Don't recall ever visiting them before.

-----

NUKE FACE-OFF Pakistan threatens to DESTROY India with nuclear bomb as atomic enemies edge to the brink of war
Tensions have risen dramatically between the nuclear-armed neighbours

PAKISTAN’S Defence Minister has threatened to “destroy” India – after India said on Thursday it had carried out “surgical strikes” on suspected militants preparing to infiltrate from Pakistan-ruled Kashmir.

The strikes, which were a response to shots fired across the de facto border through the disputed Himalayan territory, could lead to a military escalation between the two nuclear-armed neighbours – risking a ceasefire agreed in 2003.

Tensions have been heightened since an attack on an Indian military base in Kashmir earlier this month, which left 18 soldiers dead.

Both countries claim Kashmir in full, but rule separate parts – and have fought three wars over Kashmir since gaining independence from Britain in 1947.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1883306/pakistan-threatens-to-destroy-india-with-nuclear-bomb-as-atomic-enemies-edge-to-the-brink-of-war/

[Kathianne]

Here's a bit more from a known, if not always respected source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/india-hits-militant-launchpads-in-pakistan-in-escalation-between-nuclear-armed-rivals/2016/09/29/e0145168-d97e-4149-977a-24d08b16ea0b_story.html

[jimnyc]

Here's a bit more from a known, if not always respected source:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/india-hits-militant-launchpads-in-pakistan-in-escalation-between-nuclear-armed-rivals/2016/09/29/e0145168-d97e-4149-977a-24d08b16ea0b_story.html

Damn Washington Post!! I actually like that site a lot and post articles from them here often. But they only let you view a certain amount of articles weekly before they cut you off and want you to join and pay. That ain't happening anytime soon!! :)

But it lets me open it in Internet Explorer without issue. Weird bastards.

I have to wonder, are they just pulling a little funny haircut guy like shrimpy in North Korea?

[Noir]

And @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) and @Noir (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=517) - is the link for this article to a reputable site? Don't recall ever visiting them before.

The Sun is media garbage through and through. Best/worst known for 'page three' which featured a new topless 18 year old model everyday because that's what all serious news organisations do, probably.

[Drummond]

Damn, we need @Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) here to ask a few questions! What are the far reaching consequences if they actually did try something like this? If they did, would WE be in danger from fallout?

And @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) and @Noir (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=517) - is the link for this article to a reputable site? Don't recall ever visiting them before.

-----

NUKE FACE-OFF Pakistan threatens to DESTROY India with nuclear bomb as atomic enemies edge to the brink of war
Tensions have risen dramatically between the nuclear-armed neighbours

PAKISTAN’S Defence Minister has threatened to “destroy” India – after India said on Thursday it had carried out “surgical strikes” on suspected militants preparing to infiltrate from Pakistan-ruled Kashmir.

The strikes, which were a response to shots fired across the de facto border through the disputed Himalayan territory, could lead to a military escalation between the two nuclear-armed neighbours – risking a ceasefire agreed in 2003.

Tensions have been heightened since an attack on an Indian military base in Kashmir earlier this month, which left 18 soldiers dead.

Both countries claim Kashmir in full, but rule separate parts – and have fought three wars over Kashmir since gaining independence from Britain in 1947.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1883306/pakistan-threatens-to-destroy-india-with-nuclear-bomb-as-atomic-enemies-edge-to-the-brink-of-war/

The Sun is a comparatively reputable source. It's one of our major tabloid newspapers .. roughly comparable, perhaps, to the New York Daily News, except it has national coverage (as many of our newspapers do). Downmarket end of the spectrum, but has been around for several decades as a popular national Daily.

[Drummond]

The Sun is media garbage through and through. Best/worst known for 'page three' which featured a new topless 18 year old model everyday because that's what all serious news organisations do, probably.

Be fair. You're really calling them 'media garbage' because of their consistent Conservative leanings. Granted, it's not particularly 'quality', compared to the Telegraph or Daily Mail, but still, they do report reliably.

So, they have a Page 3 girl. So what. It doesn't make them an unreliable news source otherwise.

[Noir]

Be fair. You're really calling them 'media garbage' because of their consistent Conservative leanings. Granted, it's not particularly 'quality', compared to the Telegraph or Daily Mail, but still, they do report reliably.

So, they have a Page 3 girl. So what. It doesn't make them an unreliable news source otherwise.

Its garbage Drummond, pure garbage.
I just went onto there webpage to see what is the most important story in the world/nation is right now... Apparently it's that a former page 3 model and a former reality TV star spent the night in a hotel with each other.
Thats the best they can (and want) to do.
Garbage.

[Perianne]

Be fair. You're really calling them 'media garbage' because of their consistent Conservative leanings. Granted, it's not particularly 'quality', compared to the Telegraph or Daily Mail, but still, they do report reliably.

So, they have a Page 3 girl. So what. It doesn't make them an unreliable news source otherwise.


Its garbage Drummond, pure garbage.
I just went onto there webpage to see what is the most important story in the world/nation is right now... Apparently it's that a former page 3 model and a former reality TV star spent the night in a hotel with each other.
Thats the best they can (and want) to do.
Garbage.

Differing opionions. Hmmmm. Who to believe? Hmmmm. lol

You win, Drummond. You are always right. People who disagree with you need to examine themselves.

[Elessar]

Damn, we need @Gunny (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=30) here to ask a few questions! What are the far reaching consequences if they actually did try something like this? If they did, would WE be in danger from fallout?

And @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) and @Noir (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=517) - is the link for this article to a reputable site? Don't recall ever visiting them before.

-----

NUKE FACE-OFF Pakistan threatens to DESTROY India with nuclear bomb as atomic enemies edge to the brink of war
Tensions have risen dramatically between the nuclear-armed neighbours

PAKISTAN’S Defence Minister has threatened to “destroy” India – after India said on Thursday it had carried out “surgical strikes” on suspected militants preparing to infiltrate from Pakistan-ruled Kashmir.

The strikes, which were a response to shots fired across the de facto border through the disputed Himalayan territory, could lead to a military escalation between the two nuclear-armed neighbours – risking a ceasefire agreed in 2003.

Tensions have been heightened since an attack on an Indian military base in Kashmir earlier this month, which left 18 soldiers dead.

Both countries claim Kashmir in full, but rule separate parts – and have fought three wars over Kashmir since gaining independence from Britain in 1947.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1883306/pakistan-threatens-to-destroy-india-with-nuclear-bomb-as-atomic-enemies-edge-to-the-brink-of-war/

I kinda think Pakistan might come out on the short end of this, if they try. They are unstable to begin with.

Fallout here? Doubtful. That stuff dissipates over distance.

[sundaydriver]

I remember tooling around the New Orleans harbor in 1973 and seeing two Pakistani cargo ships loading grain with life boats and rafts hanging at the ready to be lowered or cut loose in case of attack by the Indian navy during their voyage. This has been going on an awful long time.

[Drummond]

Differing opionions. Hmmmm. Who to believe? Hmmmm. lol

You win, Drummond. You are always right. People who disagree with you need to examine themselves.

The Sun isn't known as a 'quality' newspaper because it's a populist tabloid. Even so, it sells very well and is one of the most bought papers we have. I for one have no reason not to trust their reports.

Noir's against them because of their pro-Conservative leanings, and he obviously has something to gain by trying to discredit the Sun newspaper to an American audience.

Here's an example of that ... going back to an election in the 1990's, when our Conservatives won that election. The Sun's output was, at that time ...

http://www.classicheadlines.co.uk/if-kinnock-wins-today-will-the-last-person-to-leave-britain-please-turn-out-the-lights/?doing_wp_cron=1475407331.6479001045227050781250


The Tories triumphed, taking 336 seats to Labour’s 271 for an overall majority of 21. In his resignation speech, Kinnock blamed the light bulb front page for his defeat. The Sun found itself in agreement with the Welsh windbag for the first time, following up with another legendary and even more controversial political splash: It’s The Sun Wot Won It.

Time is a great healer, though, and years later, in Alastair Campbell’s memoirs, Kinnock is quoted as saying: “You imagine what it’s like having your head stuck inside a f*cking lightbulb.”

[Noir]

I for one have no reason not to trust their reports.


Hillsborough.

[Drummond]

Hillsborough.

... going back to the 1980's ?? You have to go THAT far back, to find anything of theirs you can question, Noir ?

Fact is, Noir, that the Sun is a very popular newspaper, and sufficiently so to be an influence. 'The Sun Wot Won It' .. I think was accurate. People placed their trust in the Sun's editorial judgment of the time, and so, a Labour win in 1992 was averted (.. though Kinnock's triumphalist party the night before the election, in which he was monumentally arrogant enough to take the electorates' votes for granted, no doubt help sink him, too !!!).

If the Sun is such supposed 'rubbish', how can their popularity be explained ? Or, the fact that people take notice of that paper's opinions ??

[Noir]

... going back to the 1980's ?? You have to go THAT far back, to find anything of theirs you can question, Noir ?

Fact is, Noir, that the Sun is a very popular newspaper, and sufficiently so to be an influence. 'The Sun Wot Won It' .. I think was accurate. People placed their trust in the Sun's editorial judgment of the time, and so, a Labour win in 1992 was averted (.. though Kinnock's triumphalist party the night before the election, in which he was monumentally arrogant enough to take the electorates' votes for granted, no doubt help sink him, too !!!).

If the Sun is such supposed 'rubbish', how can their popularity be explained ? Or, the fact that people take notice of that paper's opinions ??

Mcdonalds is garbage food, and very popular.
American Idol is garbage TV, and very popular.
The Sun is a garbage newspaper, and very popular.

Being popular does not mean something isn't garbage.

[Perianne]

You win, Drummond. You are always right. People who disagree with you need to examine themselves.


Mcdonalds is garbage food, and very popular.
American Idol is garbage TV, and very popular.
The Sun is a garbage newspaper, and very popular.

Being popular does not mean something isn't garbage.

I have already advised you on arguing with Drummond.

[Abbey Marie]

Drummond, I claim no knowledge of British newspapers, and lord knows we can always use a Conservative one given the mass of liberal papers out there. But I must comment on your point that it can't be garbage because it's so popular. In my experience, the lowest common denominator of folks very often cause a thing to be popular. In fact, popular and garbage are often synonymous, IMO.

[Noir]

I have already advised you on arguing with Drummond.

and I gave your advise the respect it deserves, by ignoring it.

[Drummond]

and I gave your advise the respect it deserves, by ignoring it.

Very rude. Also, ill-advised.

But then, you're someone who shuns the Conservative editorial wisdom of The Sun, so ....

I noted, by the way, that Hillsborough remains the only example you gave to back up your position (one DECADES old ..).

[Noir]

Very rude. Also, ill-advised.

But then, you're someone who shuns the Conservative editorial wisdom of The Sun, so ....

I noted, by the way, that Hillsborough remains the only example you gave to back up your position (one DECADES old ..).

Editorial Wisdom indeed.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9405&stc=1

[Drummond]

Editorial Wisdom indeed.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9405&stc=1

True - I'd forgotten about that. But then again, Blair DID sell the Labour Party, aka 'New Labour', as sufficiently Right-wing as to be electable.

Compare that to today, with Corbyn in charge. What evidence do you have of their backing for Corbyn ??

How about this, for example ... from Jeremy Clarkson, one of their columnists these days, and someone who nobody could EVER call a Leftie (!!) ......

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1890036/jeremy-corbyn-seems-to-have-forgotten-that-when-the-state-runs-things-the-country-is-left-in-a-right-state/


WITH a whopping 313,209 votes in the bag, Jeremy Corbyn boinged on to the stage at the Labour Party conference no doubt feeling like he’d beaten Mary Berry and David Attenborough in a contest to become Britain’s Most Popular Person.

It had obviously not occurred to him that around seven million Labour-supporting people in the country hadn’t voted for him and that he is pretty much universally loathed by all of his MPs ....

Quality journalism, Noir, without a doubt -

[Drummond]

Drummond, I claim no knowledge of British newspapers, and lord knows we can always use a Conservative one given the mass of liberal papers out there. But I must comment on your point that it can't be garbage because it's so popular. In my experience, the lowest common denominator of folks very often cause a thing to be popular. In fact, popular and garbage are often synonymous, IMO.

So the less popular a newspaper, the greater the likelihood of its NOT being 'garbage' ?

We have another tabloid sold here, called the Morning Star. It's readership is tiny. No discerning person could call it a 'quality' product. But then ... it IS the UK's one COMMUNIST newspaper.

This might be of interest --

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/uk-newspapers-ranked-total-readership-print-and-online/2/

You'll see from the link that in excess of 13 million Brits read the Sun (that's out of a total UK population of around 60-65 million). Second in line is the Daily Mail, once a BROADSHEET, but today, a higher-end tabloid - and much-quoted from on this forum, by the way. Fourth down the list, with well over 6 million readers, is a tabloid called the Daily Mirror. That, Abbey, is sharply Left wing. Its vitriol against GW Bush, especially over the Iraq War, had to be seen to be believed.

But its readership is only around half of that of its far more Conservative counterpart ...

The Morning Star's readership is so small that they don't even register on the Press Gazette's radar ..

[Abbey Marie]

So the less popular a newspaper, the greater the likelihood of its NOT being 'garbage' ?

We have another tabloid sold here, called the Morning Star. It's readership is tiny. No discerning person could call it a 'quality' product. But then ... it IS the UK's one COMMUNIST newspaper.

This might be of interest --

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/uk-newspapers-ranked-total-readership-print-and-online/2/

You'll see from the link that in excess of 13 million Brits read the Sun (that's out of a total UK population of around 60-65 million). Second in line is the Daily Mail, once a BROADSHEET, but today, a higher-end tabloid - and much-quoted from on this forum, by the way. Fourth down the list, with well over 6 million readers, is a tabloid called the Daily Mirror. That, Abbey, is sharply Left wing. Its vitriol against GW Bush, especially over the Iraq War, had to be seen to be believed.

But its readership is only around half of that of its far more Conservative counterpart ...

The Morning Star's readership is so small that they don't even register on the Press Gazette's radar ..

you cannot say the inverse is automatically true, just as you cannot say popularity = quality.

[Drummond]

you cannot say the inverse is automatically true, just as you cannot say popularity = quality.

Perhaps. Equally, you cannot tell me that I'm automatically wrong, either.

Here's the point, I think. 'Quality' or not ... if a newspaper has a very large readership, it surely follows that they will trust what that paper says -- otherwise, why bother to purchase it ?

Which means, in turn, that it has a good reputation for reliability. Which in turn means that Noir's objection to it is fundamentally unfounded.

[jimnyc]

Its garbage Drummond, pure garbage.
I just went onto there webpage to see what is the most important story in the world/nation is right now... Apparently it's that a former page 3 model and a former reality TV star spent the night in a hotel with each other.
Thats the best they can (and want) to do.
Garbage.

I just got back to this thread since my opening post. All I can say about them - is that this story was true.

[Abbey Marie]

Perhaps. Equally, you cannot tell me that I'm automatically wrong, either.

Here's the point, I think. 'Quality' or not ... if a newspaper has a very large readership, it surely follows that they will trust what that paper says -- otherwise, why bother to purchase it ?

Which means, in turn, that it has a good reputation for reliability. Which in turn means that Noir's objection to it is fundamentally unfounded.


Drummond's Law: Any object or person that has mass popularity must be of high quality and reliability. Including, one must conclude, reality TV. And Hitler.

Here's Abbey's Corollary, for the masses, who given a large enough group, surely could not be wrong about anything:
"No one in this world... ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the the great masses of plain people". Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby". H. L. Mencken

And this old chestnut: "There's a sucker born every minute". Attributed to P. T. Barnum, or David Hannum.

[Perianne]

Drummond

I understand what you are saying even if others cannot. Perhaps we are two of a kind. (That is scary!)

At least she didn't call you "dishonest". lol

[Abbey Marie]

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287)

I understand what you are saying even if others cannot. Perhaps we are two of a kind. (That is scary!)

At least she didn't call you "dishonest". lol

"She" is not having trouble understanding anything Drummond is saying.

Very snarky of you.

[Russ]

I have to agree that popularity almost always equals low quality. It's like the term LCD, or "Lowest Common Denominator" - things appeal to a wide mass of people only if they're such low-level pablum that there's no substance there at all.

Some examples of high popularity and low quality:

- fast food restaurants
- Survivor reality show
- Bill Clinton getting elected President, twice
- Amy Shumer's comedy
- the Democratic Party
- posts by Bully Pulpit (oops, wait - they're not popular)

[Kathianne]

It's common knowledge that 'no one buys the National Enquirer and other tabloids.'

Yet they are in business. They get a story right, about once every 5 years. Weird how they've been in business all these years, with no one buying them. LOL!

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=national%20enquirer%20circulation


National Enquirer/Circulation

about one million




In March 2010, average weekly print circulation -- newsstand and subscription -- of the National Enquirer declined year-over-year 16.1 percent to 732,000 copies. By comparison, total paid and verified weekly circulation averaged about one million in 2007, according to media observer Audit Bureau of Circulations (ABC).May 10, 2010

Printing The Truth Hasn't Kept Readership From Fleeing the National ... (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/printing-the-truth-hasnt-kept-readership-from-fleeing-the-national-enquirer/)

<cite class="_Rm" style="color: rgb(0, 102, 33); font-style: normal; font-size: 14px;">www.cbsnews.com/.../printing-the-truth-hasnt-kept-readership-from-fleeing-t...</cite>CBS News













Never underestimate the low taste of the masses.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Drummond's Law: Any object or person that has mass popularity must be of high quality and reliability. Including one must conclude, reality TV. And Hitler.

Here's Abbey's Corollary, for the masses, who given a large enough group, surely could not be wrong about anything:
"No one in this world... ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the the great masses of plain people". Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby". H. L. Mencken

And this old chestnut: "There's a sucker born every minute". Attributed to P. T. Barnum, or David Hannum.

Whether popularity as related to the quality or the lack thereof in a newspaper depends greatly on the education level and morality of its readership.
Hence one may --assume-- even the New York Times(leftist rag that it is) is of higher quality than the National Enquirer.
Comparisons made would be subjective to the positive factors of the readership.

I was damn popular back when being bad-stomping people, but my actions were frowned on by most people-
such that never consider the true character of the victims...
I am no expert on Brit papers or that of the general population there but one (right or wrong) usually when making such judgments tend to think of the people they believe to be their equals in morals and intelligence..
If so- in that vein--then Drummond's call makes sense to me..
That said-- popularity in and of itself does not negate something being of higher/high quality.
Its just when we judge things based upon our own rotten, materialistic and selfish culture that we may err.

Mass appeal/popularity does not automatically equate to it being bad but neither does it automatically equate to it being good..
Each case would have to be decided, based upon other criteria IMHO.

Life is full of mysteries and baffling perceptions..-Tyr

[Drummond]

"She" is not having trouble understanding anything Drummond is saying.

Very snarky of you.

OK ... let me put it in simple terms, then.

Does the Will of the People actually MEAN anything, of any value ?

If 'yes' ... then I suggest that upwards of thirteen million people (out of a total of around 65 million) preferring, and trusting, a particular publication, and doing so for a number of decades .. should be something of note. To be respected. Either that, or all of those people, somehow, must be misguided ... somehow !! ....

You brought up the example of 'the masses' following Hitler. OK. But, Hitler conned them, by promising them values and a world far removed from the hell he really unleashed.

The Sun newspaper has done none of that. All it's done is to print the news, and editorials, which have stood the test of time, in terms of sheer reliability. Noir, for his part, had to delve back decades to find anything at all that constituted 'a major mistake' ... and he failed, in doing so, to also point out that The Sun's reporting DID reflect the overall understanding of what had happened at Hillsborough at that time.

[Drummond]

Whether popularity as related to the quality or the lack thereof in a newspaper depends greatly on the education level and morality of its readership.
Hence one may --assume-- even the New York Times(leftist rag that it is) is of higher quality than the National Enquirer.
Comparisons made would be subjective to the positive factors of the readership.

I was damn popular back when being bad-stomping people, but my actions were frowned on by most people-
such that never consider the true character of the victims...
I am no expert on Brit papers or that of the general population there but one (right or wrong) usually when making such judgments tend to think of the people they believe to be their equals in morals and intelligence..
If so- in that vein--then Drummond's call makes sense to me..
That said-- popularity in and of itself does not negate something being of higher/high quality.
Its just when we judge things based upon our own rotten, materialistic and selfish culture that we may err.

Mass appeal/popularity does not automatically equate to it being bad but neither does it automatically equate to it being good..
Each case would have to be decided, based upon other criteria IMHO.

Life is full of mysteries and baffling perceptions..-Tyr

Just a simple reply to this .. the Sun has a long-standing reputation for being on the side of Conservatism. Even when they backed Blair, they were in fact welcoming the lurch to the Right which Labour had taken, under Blair's leadership.

For my money, Conservative thinking and support has a high 'quality' value, all its own ...

[Abbey Marie]

OK ... let me put it in simple terms, then.

Does the Will of the People actually MEAN anything, of any value ?

If 'yes' ... then I suggest that upwards of thirteen million people (out of a total of around 65 million) preferring, and trusting, a particular publication, and doing so for a number of decades .. should be something of note. To be respected. Either that, or all of those people, somehow, must be misguided ... somehow !! ....

You brought up the example of 'the masses' following Hitler. OK. But, Hitler conned them, by promising them values and a world far removed from the hell he really unleashed.

The Sun newspaper has done none of that. All it's done is to print the news, and editorials, which have stood the test of time, in terms of sheer reliability. Noir, for his part, had to delve back decades to find anything at all that constituted 'a major mistake' ... and he failed, in doing so, to also point out that The Sun's reporting DID reflect the overall understanding of what had happened at Hillsborough at that time.


I assure you Drummond, as I did your supporter, that I have zero problem understanding your point. I disagree with it. And rather mildly, I had thought, at that. But it would seem that you cannot be disagreed with in any way, nor allow someone else to have the last word. I had thought you more self-assured than all that.

So, let me put it more "simply" for you, as you would say. (Though truth be told, I'm pretty sure I and others have already put it rather clearly).

Popularity may or may not = Quality. Often, it does not.
Lack of popularity may or may not = lack of Quality. Though it can.

-Abbey
PS None of the above is intended to draw any conclusions about the British newspaper "The Sun", which may in fact be a fine newspaper. But if so, it is not evidenced by a large readership. Such evidence is not conclusive, and cannot be used to exculpate nor to convict the defendant. Any resemblance to persons living or dead are purely coincidental. No warranties are given, express of implied. Void where prohibited by law.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Just a simple reply to this .. the Sun has a long-standing reputation for being on the side of Conservatism. Even when they backed Blair, they were in fact welcoming the lurch to the Right which Labour had taken, under Blair's leadership.

For my money, Conservative thinking and support has a high 'quality' value, all its own ...


For my money, Conservative thinking and support has a high 'quality' value, all its own
^^^^ Dead on the money...

The fact(if reality, not doubting your word) that its a very conservative paper by Brit standards, in my limited understanding of Brit culture
points to it be of quality even tho' its also very popular.
Strikes me that the silent conservative voice in Britain-tends to read more and speak out in public less than is advisable and/or desired..

Simple disagreement with others on the judgment of such--given our different culture and our lack of firsthand experience in regards to your culture is to be expected..
As I've noted often before, I value your opinion, know you post honest answers and like myself -tend to judge as fairly as possible when presenting opinions on subjects discussed here and when replying to others.

Note- None of us are lazy in defending what we believe to be truth--as that is truly the foundation stones and strength in Conservatism..-Tyr

[Noir]

The Sun newspaper has done none of that. All it's done is to print the news, and editorials, which have stood the test of time, in terms of sheer reliability. Noir, for his part, had to delve back decades to find anything at all that constituted 'a major mistake' ...

They are constantly printing corrections to front pages headline stories (or hadn't you noticed? In fairness, it always is hard to notice a short paragraph buried in the back pages as appose to the full colour front page it's coreecting.)



and he failed, in doing so, to also point out that The Sun's reporting DID reflect the overall understanding of what had happened at Hillsborough at that time.

This is a disgraceful comment to make.
You should know better, and it's just as well for your reputation among the Americans here that they don't know the details.

[Drummond]

They are constantly printing corrections to front pages headline stories (or hadn't you noticed? In fairness, it always is hard to notice a short paragraph buried in the back pages as appose to the full colour front page it's coreecting.)




This is a disgraceful comment to make.
You should know better, and it's just as well for your reputation among the Americans here that they don't know the details.

No, I hadn't, because I more usually buy the Express or Mail. However .... if you're correct, it meas that the Sun cares about accuracy, and strives to meet its requirements. Would you rather believe that a paper which didn't do that was superior to one that did ?

And .. ARE you correct ? If 'yes', then, why did you choose to make your case on the basis of such an old news item, and not a recent one ?

As for my 'disgraceful comment' .. be honest. Hillsborough remained an incident whose origins and causes were questioned for a considerable period. See ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7992845.stm


Despite the Taylor report, which was also critical of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club and Sheffield City Council, on 14 August 1990 the director of public prosecutions decided not to bring criminal charges against any individual, group or body on the grounds of insufficient evidence.

Inquests into the deaths of the victims returned a majority verdict of accidental death, but many families did not accept this and began to campaign for a fresh inquiry.

You will know that this has only reached 'closure' quite recently, Noir. Whereas ... you're criticising the Sun's INITIAL reaction, at the time all this first took place.

[Drummond]

I assure you Drummond, as I did your supporter, that I have zero problem understanding your point. I disagree with it. And rather mildly, I had thought, at that. But it would seem that you cannot be disagreed with in any way, nor allow someone else to have the last word. I had thought you more self-assured than all that.

So, let me put it more "simply" for you, as you would say. (Though truth be told, I'm pretty sure I and others have already put it rather clearly).

Popularity may or may not = Quality. Often, it does not.
Lack of popularity may or may not = lack of Quality. Though it can.

-Abbey
PS None of the above is intended to draw any conclusions about the British newspaper "The Sun", which may in fact be a fine newspaper. But if so, it is not evidenced by a large readership. Such evidence is not conclusive, and cannot be used to exculpate nor to convict the defendant. Any resemblance to persons living or dead are purely coincidental. No warranties are given, express of implied. Void where prohibited by law.

Am I required to ensure that my debating opponents have the last word, then ? I'm unaware of any DP ruling which mandates it.

Perhaps my persistence is simply a sign of someone who believes in his own argument.

Have I said that popularity MUST, at all times, equal quality ? Please check this thread and see if this is what I've insisted is true. I suggest that the concept of 'quality' is, in any case, in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the Sun's readership itself has differing concepts of the quality they perceive or are happy with.

Such a judgment is best left up to them, I suggest.

You may disagree, Abbey, and probably will. If in fact you really need it ... by all means, have the last word on this.:rolleyes:

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

They are constantly printing corrections to front pages headline stories (or hadn't you noticed? In fairness, it always is hard to notice a short paragraph buried in the back pages as appose to the full colour front page it's coreecting.)




This is a disgraceful comment to make.
You should know better, and it's just as well for your reputation among the Americans here that they don't know the details.


Nothing that I have seen him say has tarnished his reputation with me. He is entitled same as you and I to present his opinions and judgments without having to candy coat it or PC it to death to please the few damn libs we have here IMHO.
And I have known him longer than any other member here has.
Nobody is perfect, neither he, I or you but his record stands high in my book.--Tyr

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Am I required to ensure that my debating opponents have the last word, then ? I'm unaware of any DP ruling which mandates it.

Perhaps my persistence is simply a sign of someone who believes in his own argument.

Have I said that popularity MUST, at all times, equal quality ? Please check this thread and see if this is what I've insisted is true. I suggest that the concept of 'quality' is, in any case, in the eye of the beholder. Maybe the Sun's readership itself has differing concepts of the quality they perceive or are happy with.

Such a judgment is best left up to them, I suggest.

You may disagree, Abbey, and probably will. If in fact you really need it ... by all means, have the last word on this.:rolleyes:

My friend, Abbey expressed thoughts that many Americans have in regards to the ignorance and shallowness of the masses when popularity is the result.
I see merit in both sides being presented.
The problem is-perhaps the differences in our cultures wasn't factored in adequately.
I know you both are very high on the intelligence ladder and rate very high with me in the categories of honesty and civil behavior...Tyr

[Perianne]

They are constantly printing corrections to front pages headline stories (or hadn't you noticed? In fairness, it always is hard to notice a short paragraph buried in the back pages as appose to the full colour front page it's coreecting.)


Are you talking about the New York Times? They do the same thing.

[darin]

Drummond

I understand what you are saying even if others cannot. Perhaps we are two of a kind. (That is scary!)

At least she didn't call you "dishonest". lol

Do you become a bitch and turn passive-aggressive regularly?

I read some recent posts where there were multiple instances of passive-aggressive bullshit. Surely that poster doesn't talk like that in real life, or they would get a face full of slap.

I confess: I went passive-aggressive couple of years ago when I got really, really angry at someone and was too big of a pussy to deal directly with them. I immediately felt like a loser, but the deed was done. So, I don't mean to put myself as superior to anyone. I am just curious if people get chock-full of passive-aggressive bullshit every week, or even every day.


If anyone wants help with their passive-aggressive bullshit, I am available to offer alternatives to bad words. Perianne

[Perianne]

Do you become a bitch and turn passive-aggressive regularly?

I read some recent posts where there were multiple instances of passive-aggressive bullshit. Surely that poster doesn't talk like that in real life, or they would get a face full of slap.

I confess: I went passive-aggressive couple of years ago when I got really, really angry at someone and was too big of a pussy to deal directly with them. I immediately felt like a loser, but the deed was done. So, I don't mean to put myself as superior to anyone. I am just curious if people get chock-full of passive-aggressive bullshit every week, or even every day.


If anyone wants help with their passive-aggressive bullshit, I am available to offer alternatives to bad words. @Perianne (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2722)

Good one, dmp. You made me laugh!

[darin]

laughter comes before thinking. look at yourself, dude. You traipse around the board leaving these bullshit insinuations. #tiresome #immature #gabbyswithasecondaccount?

[sundaydriver]

They are constantly printing corrections to front pages headline stories (or hadn't you noticed? In fairness, it always is hard to notice a short paragraph buried in the back pages as appose to the full colour front page it's coreecting.)




if you're correct, it meas that the Sun cares about accuracy, and strives to meet its requirements. Would you rather believe that a paper which didn't do that was superior to one that did ?

Apparently you are both correct. I've read about it but never read the Sun, so I looked it up and this review summed up most.

The Sun: Populist right wing. Working class paper. Entertaining. But immigrant-baiting, routinely lies and misrepresents. Biggest selling paper in Britain. Owned by Murdoch.

https://www.quora.com/Among-large-UK-Newspapers-which-are-considered-conservative-and-which-are-considered-liberal

India did another "surgical strike" in the Pakistan portion of Kashmir, so can we get back to the subject now?

[Abbey Marie]

...
India did another "surgical strike" in the Pakistan portion of Kashmir, so can we get back to the subject now?

What a concept!

Having read this, from the WaPo article linked in this thread, it seems the current aggressor is identifiable:


Tensions have been running high between the two countries since four Pakistani militants attacked an army camp in the Indian border town of Uri on Sept. 18, killing 18 Indian soldiers. India has claimed that Pakistan supported the militants, and the director general of Indian military operations, Lt. Gen. Ranbir Singh, said Thursday that investigators uncovered global positioning systems and supplies that had Pakistani markings.