Johnson and Stein fail to make cut for first presidential debate

[jimnyc]

Good, now Johnson can go back to talking about how marijuana makes the world a better place. :laugh2:


-----

Johnson and Stein fail to make cut for first presidential debate

Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson and Green Party candidate Jill Stein failed to make the cut for the first presidential debate on Sept. 26, the Commission on Presidential Debates announced on Friday afternoon, in a significant blow for their campaigns.

Though Johnson and Stein satisfied two of the criteria necessary to participate – that they be constitutionally eligible and have achieved ballot access in a sufficient number of states to win a theoretical Electoral College majority – neither met the threshold on polling.

The commission said Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump have been formally invited to participate in the first presidential debate later this month, while their running mates, Tim Kaine and Mike Pence, have been invited to participate in the vice presidential debate on Oct. 4.

“[T]he Board determined that the polling averages called for in the third criterion are as follows: Hillary Clinton (43%), Donald Trump (40.4%), Gary Johnson (8.4%) and Jill Stein (3.2%). Accordingly, Hillary Clinton and her running mate, Tim Kaine, and Donald Trump and his running mate, Mike Pence, qualify to participate in the September 26 presidential debate and the October 4 vice-presidential debate, respectively. No other candidates satisfied the criteria for inclusion in the September 26 and October 4 debates. The criteria will be reapplied to all candidates in advance of the second and third presidential debates,” the Commission announced.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/johnson-stein-fail-first-presidential-debate-228301

[pete311]

They have no money, so no one knows show they are. Of course they can't crack 15%. Dumb commission. Put them both on the stage for the first debate and see what happens. We deserve more than 2 bad options. We deserve the choice between 4 bad options. But at least let the general population know the 4 options.

[jimnyc]

They have no money, so no one knows show they are. Of course they can't crack 15%. Dumb commission. Put them both on the stage for the first debate and see what happens. We deserve more than 2 bad options. We deserve the choice between 4 bad options. But at least let the general population know the 4 options.

I think there are much more people out there that know who they are, more than you give credit for at least. But I also agree that they obviously have much less funding. And perhaps things aren't setup perfectly fair. BUT, I don't doubt for a second, that if there was a 3rd party candidate out there that the people truly liked, they would get that shot.

[pete311]

BUT, I don't doubt for a second, that if there was a 3rd party candidate out there that the people truly liked, they would get that shot.

Think Hilary and Trump would work together on that? ;)

[jimnyc]

Think Hilary and Trump would work together on that? ;)

Just as in Trump beating out the other 16 and beating out what the elites wanted - I don't think they would have a choice if "that" candidate were out there and that's what the people wanted.

[fj1200]

That's a shame.

Good, now Johnson can go back to talking about how marijuana makes the world a better place. :laugh2:

Now there will no one to debate the conservative cause.

[NightTrain]

That's a good thing.

If Johnson were up on stage, he'd get a lot of time answering to some of his nutty ideas :

"Mr. Johnson, can you tell us how legalizing heroin and meth would make our country a better place?"

"Mr. Johnson, can you tell us how many free needles your administration will hand out to druggies on an annual basis?"

Gotta run to work, but there would be some gold entertainment in having him on stage and trying to explain some of that shit.

[Perianne]

Johnson probably rode the short bus when he was in school.

[fj1200]

That's a good thing.

If Johnson were up on stage, he'd get a lot of time answering to some of his nutty ideas :

"Mr. Johnson, can you tell us how legalizing heroin and meth would make our country a better place?"

"Mr. Johnson, can you tell us how many free needles your administration will hand out to druggies on an annual basis?"

Gotta run to work, but there would be some gold entertainment in having him on stage and trying to explain some of that shit.

Or they might discuss his actual position:


Legalizing and regulating marijuana will save lives and make our communities safer by eliminating crime and creating an industry that can legitimately participate in America’s economy.The Federal government should not stand in the way of states that choose to legalize marijuana. Governors Johnson and Weld would remove cannabis from Schedule I of the federal Controlled Substances Act, which will allow individual states to make their own decisions about both recreational and medical marijuana -- just as they have done for decades with alcohol. Eliminating the Federal government as an obstacle to state legalization decisions is not only constitutionally sound, but would allow much-needed testing of marijuana for medical purposes, as well as regulation that reflects individual states' values and needs. We need to treat drug abuse as a health issue, not a crime.


The War on Drugs is an expensive failure. We spend money to police it. We spend money to incarcerate nonviolent offenders. And what do we get in return? A society that kicks our troubled mothers, fathers, and young adults while they’re down, instead of giving them the tools to be healthier and more productive members of society.


We can save thousands of lives and billions of dollars by simply changing our approach to drug abuse. That is why Gary Johnson came out as an early proponent on the national stage in 1999 while Governor of New Mexico, and publicly stated his support of marijuana legalization.


Governors Johnson and Weld do not support the legalization of other recreational drugs that are currently illegal. It is, however, their belief that drug rehabilitation and harm-reduction programs result in a more productive society than incarceration and arrests for drug use.



Save money. Change lives. Protect families.

Research: Imagine that.

[fj1200]

Johnson probably rode the short bus when he was in school.

I haven't seen any information on that. He is the only self-made man running though. :shrug:

[Perianne]

I haven't seen any information on that. He is the only self-made man running though. :shrug:

I read somewhere he thought Guam might tip over into the ocean if there were too many people there.

[pete311]

I read somewhere he thought Guam might tip over into the ocean if there were too many people there.

That is congressman Hank Johnson

[Perianne]

That is congressman Hank Johnson

I now think they both said it. Those Johnson brothers! They probably thought it up over Thanksgiving dinner.

[Abbey Marie]

I think there are much more people out there that know who they are, more than you give credit for at least. But I also agree that they obviously have much less funding. And perhaps things aren't setup perfectly fair. BUT, I don't doubt for a second, that if there was a 3rd party candidate out there that the people truly liked, they would get that shot.

I heard that Johnson was getting a fair amount of monetary pledges, but he asked people to send him cases of Cheetos instead. True story. In fact, here's a pic of ol' Gary enjoying a little donated post-Bong snack:



http://stonerschematics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/funyun_opt.jpg

[Russ]

I understand the Gary Johnson was originally going to represent the "Green Party"


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9365&stc=1

[Elessar]

I think there are much more people out there that know who they are, more than you give credit for at least. But I also agree that they obviously have much less funding. And perhaps things aren't setup perfectly fair. BUT, I don't doubt for a second, that if there was a 3rd party candidate out there that the people truly liked, they would get that shot.

If they were deemed worthwhile , they might have been more successful.
It is as simple as that. Should have both tried in a major party, but only to
get shot down in flames, I think.

[NightTrain]

Or they might discuss his actual position:



Research: Imagine that.


It would appear he's running from his original stance of Pharmacies handing out scripts for Heroin & Methadone.

I outlined straight from that page his stances not that long ago, does he have a full time staff in PR spin mode?




He's got some... different... ideas.

- Ending the Fed

- Legalized prostitution

- Pro Gay Marriage

- Eliminate corporate taxes

- Visited Occupy Wall Street; we need radical surgery (???)

- Legalize drugs

- Scripts for Heroin & Methadone at local pharmacies

- Needle exchanges for druggies

- Supports evolution

- Delete Dept of Education

- No student loans

- Accepts Global Warming & supports reducing greenhouse gas

- Kyoto must enforce reductions by all countries

- Focus on prevention on states for Endangered Species

- Federal involvement in Fatherhood initiatives (???)

- NAFTA great, New Mexico didn't want those jobs anyway

- No tariffs

- 43% reduction in military spending

- No border control.

- Naturalize all illegals



I'm only halfway down the page... gotta run.

This guy is a loon.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?55024-Gary-Johnson-On-The-Issues

[Abbey Marie]

43% reduction in military spending?! I don't know how anyone can support this guy.

[Kathianne]

43% reduction in military spending?! I don't know how anyone can support this guy.

It's simple. He's the best that has been presented by our system. He's not going to win, so those supporting the con job or the criminal will choose which leads to the disaster that awaits. Those 'supporting' Johnson at the least will be able to say they tried to stem the self-righteous and the angry mob. They'll lose, but they tried.

[fj1200]

I read somewhere he thought Guam might tip over into the ocean if there were too many people there.

There are things that are true and things that are made up by the lesser intelligent. I deal in the former others in the latter.

[fj1200]

It would appear he's running from his original stance of Pharmacies handing out scripts for Heroin & Methadone.

I outlined straight from that page his stances not that long ago, does he have a full time staff in PR spin mode?

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?55024-Gary-Johnson-On-The-Issues

No, he has a campaign website. You can discuss issues or you can toss out one-liners especially when those one-liners may not be correct when understood in context. :) Does trump still hold every position he's held over the years?

[NightTrain]

No, he has a campaign website. You can discuss issues or you can toss out one-liners especially when those one-liners may not be correct when understood in context. :) Does trump still hold every position he's held over the years?

But we're not talking about Trump.

Pulling back and adopting an isolationist stance while gutting our already weakened military is suicide. 43% is a massive number. The enemy has to be dealt with amongst their rubble, not here in NYC or Atlanta.

Naturalizing the illegals is insane. We can't afford it.

Backtracking to 'only' legalizing weed when he already said legalize all drugs doesn't fool anyone. The half-baked ideas (!) coming from the smoke-filled oval office regarding new and interesting ways to handle the drug epidemic would be akin to having Cheech or Chong be the new Drug Czars, I'm sure.

"How am I driving, man?"

"I think we're parked, man!"

Then Johnson's belief in NAFTA being a good thing for America shows he has no idea what made this country's economy great in the first place, allowing us to kick the snot out of Japan and Germany due to our gigantic industrial manufacturing base.

Then let's consider the whole greenhouse gases bullshit that he obviously embraces wholeheartedly. Those would be some great new regs and restrictions on our already staggering industry - what's left of it anyway.

I get it that you don't like the mainstream candidates. I do. But if you want to change the system by a 3rd party Prez, you have to get someone that's not an outright loon for your libertarian candidate.

[Perianne]

Johnson probably rode the short bus when he was in school.


I read somewhere he thought Guam might tip over into the ocean if there were too many people there.

I also read where he compared Jews to termites.

[fj1200]

But we're not talking about Trump.

Pulling back and adopting an isolationist stance while gutting our already weakened military is suicide. 43% is a massive number. The enemy has to be dealt with amongst their rubble, not here in NYC or Atlanta.

Naturalizing the illegals is insane. We can't afford it.

Backtracking to 'only' legalizing weed when he already said legalize all drugs doesn't fool anyone. The half-baked ideas (!) coming from the smoke-filled oval office regarding new and interesting ways to handle the drug epidemic would be akin to having Cheech or Chong be the new Drug Czars, I'm sure.

"How am I driving, man?"

"I think we're parked, man!"

Then Johnson's belief in NAFTA being a good thing for America shows he has no idea what made this country's economy great in the first place, allowing us to kick the snot out of Japan and Germany due to our gigantic industrial manufacturing base.

Then let's consider the whole greenhouse gases bullshit that he obviously embraces wholeheartedly. Those would be some great new regs and restrictions on our already staggering industry - what's left of it anyway.

I get it that you don't like the mainstream candidates. I do. But if you want to change the system by a 3rd party Prez, you have to get someone that's not an outright loon for your libertarian candidate.

Right now then we're talking about a double standard. Does Johnson still hold every position he's held in the past? I suspect not but that's what he's constantly subjected to combined with outright ignorance like the Guam thing for example. Is every position he has great and I agree with it? No, he's just better than the alternatives this year.

Is he right on NAFTA? Heck yeah he is and I've argued against the protectionist stance in multiple threads. I'm ready if you want to discuss it.
Is he going to legalize anything else besides weed? Not really, he believes in states rights.

But I digress. If you want to take pot shots, have at it but it's weak.

[Kathianne]

No, he has a campaign website. You can discuss issues or you can toss out one-liners especially when those one-liners may not be correct when understood in context. :) Does trump still hold every position he's held over the years?
It's much easier to use 'doper' than to actually look at the disaster they are supporting. Cognitive dissonance in action.

[NightTrain]

It's much easier to use 'doper' than to actually look at the disaster they are supporting. Cognitive dissonance in action.

That's not nice.

[NightTrain]

Right now then we're talking about a double standard. Does Johnson still hold every position he's held in the past? I suspect not but that's what he's constantly subjected to combined with outright ignorance like the Guam thing for example. Is every position he has great and I agree with it? No, he's just better than the alternatives this year.

Is he right on NAFTA? Heck yeah he is and I've argued against the protectionist stance in multiple threads. I'm ready if you want to discuss it.
Is he going to legalize anything else besides weed? Not really, he believes in states rights.

But I digress. If you want to take pot shots, have at it but it's weak.


How the hell is it good for America by having all our companies set up shop down in Mexico? Do you really think that cheaper labor down in Mexico for the Ford car you're driving helps anyone but that particular company and the Mexican economy?

American jobs mean the economy is bolstered by American workers spending money in America. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

[fj1200]

How the hell is it good for America by having all our companies set up shop down in Mexico? Do you really think that cheaper labor down in Mexico for the Ford car you're driving helps anyone but that particular company and the Mexican economy?

American jobs mean the economy is bolstered by American workers spending money in America. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Free trade is good. Protectionism is bad. See the Great Depression. See multiple examples that show the American consumer pays more when protectionist policies are implemented. I know that some people will lose if we embrace free trade but overall we're better off. We make as much domestically as we ever have, we just do it with far fewer people.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28

What good is it if Ford loses money on small cars built here and is a weaker company? it's not good especially if they will build high margin cars here. Did you read the article I posted last week on the very subject? Ford employment has expanded greatly recently.

The easy concept to grasp is that free people making free choices is superior. Do I think we need to fix some stuff? Yes, but what we need to fix is our awful corporate tax policy,

[Perianne]

Free trade is good. Protectionism is bad. See the Great Depression. See multiple examples that show the American consumer pays more when protectionist policies are implemented. I know that some people will lose if we embrace free trade but overall we're better off. We make as much domestically as we ever have, we just do it with far fewer people.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28 (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-manufacturing-dead-output-has-doubled-in-three-decades-2016-03-28)

What good is it if Ford loses money on small cars built here and is a weaker company? it's not good especially if they will build high margin cars here. Did you read the article I posted last week on the very subject? Ford employment has expanded greatly recently.

The easy concept to grasp is that free people making free choices is superior. Do I think we need to fix some stuff? Yes, but what we need to fix is our awful corporate tax policy,

Never make such blanket statements. Free trade has not been good for America. The Republican leaders who push tree trade need to be replaced.

[fj1200]

Never make such blanket statements. Free trade has not been good for America. The Republican leaders who push tree trade need to be replaced.

You dispute a blanket statement with a blanket statement? :rolleyes: It has been good for America. It is government inaction that allowed our position as global leader to stagnate.

[Perianne]

Free trade is good. Protectionism is bad...


Never make such blanket statements. Free trade has not been good for America.


You dispute a blanket statement with a blanket statement? :rolleyes: It has been good for America. It is government inaction that allowed our position as global leader to stagnate.

FJ, you are silly man. "Free trade is good" is a blanket statement. "Free trade has not been good for America" is not.

I fear you will never learn, sir. Accept what I say as fact. It had been our trade deals that has allowed our position as global leader to stagnate. I will grant that a fair system of trade can benefit all parties. But the systems advocated by Paul Ryan and other cuckservatives has been bad for America. Duh.

[crin63]

You Trumpians should want Johnson in the debates. From what I've heard he is taking more votes from Killary than Trump and if he completely flops maybe it sends the waffling Conservatives Trumps way.

I would never vote for Johnson (or Hillary) but would welcome that different perspective on the stage. Libertarians shot themselves in the foot with Johnson. Austin Peterson would have brought more people over to the LP.

[Elessar]

43% reduction in military spending?! I don't know how anyone can support this guy.

Quite true Abbey. Already been whittled down by Obama. Johnson wants more?
His full 'platform' is vile.


I also read where he compared Jews to termites.

There's a winner of a comment. Accuse Trump of bigotry with that kind of comment?

No business of him being in the White House or pushing for support.

[NightTrain]

Right now then we're talking about a double standard. Does Johnson still hold every position he's held in the past? I suspect not but that's what he's constantly subjected to combined with outright ignorance like the Guam thing for example. Is every position he has great and I agree with it? No, he's just better than the alternatives this year.

I'm quite sure that Peri knows that Gary isn't Hank.

And we'll have to disagree about choices, I'm not buying into a hippie in a business suit.

If I want to hang out with burned out hippies then I'll drive up the highway and smoke a bong with the hippies living in teepees out of Talkeetna. Not one of them is qualified to be a dogcatcher, and they have the same sorts of ideas.


Is he right on NAFTA? Heck yeah he is and I've argued against the protectionist stance in multiple threads. I'm ready if you want to discuss it.
Is he going to legalize anything else besides weed? Not really, he believes in states rights.

No, he isn't.

Free Trade is good up to a point, but you simply cannot compete with the labor rate of an 8-year old Malaysian girl building your Iphone or Mexicans building your car. That's because we have a quantum leap in standard of living scenarios.

A basic tenet of a healthy economy is having the dollars circulate within the nation. Paying wages, taxes, utilities etc. improves everyone's SOL.

On the other hand, what do we get when Mexico is building Ford's cars? Sure, a cheaper auto, but who benefited from it ultimately? That's right, Ford's stockholders and Mexico.

Spin that any way you want, FJ, but that's the bottom line. Moves like Ford is pulling right now as they invest over 1 BILLION in startup costs is doing nothing but helping to fuck up our economy worse than it is.

Multiply that by thousands of other companies doing the exact same thing and you've got an economic disaster heading full force for all of us.


But I digress. If you want to take pot shots, have at it but it's weak.

Thanks, I will.

If you haven't learned by now that I loathe hippies of any sort, then you haven't been paying attention. Johnson will continue to reap scorn from me just like any other hippie.

It's just how I roll.:smoke:

[Kathianne]

That's not nice.

Just joining in what's been happening here since some have chosen to go the 'doper route.' It's not enough to say one disagrees, rather attack on the easy hits.

There are just so many of these 'easy hits' that can be used against Trump and Hillary-oh the Hillary ones have also been a big feature, rather than concentrating on what she's actually done wrong-which are overwhelming in number.

Regardless of what Trump has done and said that are wrong-there's always the minions of giving excuses and saying, 'He'll have the best people...'

[Kathianne]

No, he has a campaign website. You can discuss issues or you can toss out one-liners especially when those one-liners may not be correct when understood in context. :) Does trump still hold every position he's held over the years?

It's so much easier the other way. ;)

[jimnyc]

Just joining in what's been happening here since some have chosen to go the 'doper route.' It's not enough to say one disagrees, rather attack on the easy hits.

There are just so many of these 'easy hits' that can be used against Trump and Hillary-oh the Hillary ones have also been a big feature, rather than concentrating on what she's actually done wrong-which are overwhelming in number.

Regardless of what Trump has done and said that are wrong-there's always the minions of giving excuses and saying, 'He'll have the best people...''

I try to stay with going after the candidates, and not the members that are not happy with my candidate. I don't think the folks going this "doper route" are making sarcastic remarks about other members here.

[Perianne]

'

I try to stay with going after the candidates, and not the members that are not happy with my candidate. I don't think the folks going this "doper route" are making sarcastic remarks about other members here.

It's not like there haven't been endless, condescending threads and posts about Trump supporters on this forum...ad nauseum.

Johnson is an amusing guy who brings it on himself. It's all in fun, especially since he can't win.

[Kathianne]

'

I try to stay with going after the candidates, and not the members that are not happy with my candidate. I don't think the folks going this "doper route" are making sarcastic remarks about other members here.

Oh yes and no about others. 'His supporters are all dopers, with a couple exceptions...'

Many Trump supporters have used grass, not to mention much harder drugs. Granted when they were young and stupid, but glass houses and all that.

Thinking folks going beyond partisanship, can and likely should agree and disagree with their choice of candidate on issues. I've said many times that Trump is nearly intuitive in his ability to focus on issues that many folks agree have not gained the attention of Congress that they should have. One can agree with the need to focus, without agreeing on the 'solutions that are not presented. rather implied actions that may or may not be taken.' 'We need to get tougher, I mean now...' is not a solution, but sure feels like there is something there.

One can also say, 'Yes, these problems need to be addressed,' but totally disagree that the person speaking is not a person that can be acceptable to them as President.

There are many that find both the nominees from the 2 parties unacceptable. Thus they have chosen to go a third route. One that will not lead to a 'win,' but one they can live with regarding their own participation. Sometimes that's all that's available.

[jimnyc]

Oh hell, I'm a Trump supporter and have smoked more weed than Johnson has ever dreamed of, probably! Him and I probably would have made for good friends. :) Apples and Oranges though. I wouldn't want any of my stoner buddies in charge of anything at all in the White House!!

[Perianne]

Oh hell, I'm a Trump supporter and have smoked more weed than Johnson has ever dreamed of, probably! Him and I probably would have made for good friends. :) Apples and Oranges though. I wouldn't want any of my stoner buddies in charge of anything at all in the White House!!

I smoked pot one time. It made me cough and I didn't like the feeling afterwards.

[Abbey Marie]

'

I try to stay with going after the candidates, and not the members that are not happy with my candidate. I don't think the folks going this "doper route" are making sarcastic remarks about other members here.

Speaking for myself, I think my recurrent themes are:
1. How can this guy seriously be his party's nominee, given his dope-loving, military budget- disemboweling self, and
2. For the same reasons, how can anyone support him

I'm pretty sure I have not personally insulted anyone here for liking him. Not really my style.

With all the anti-Trump and Hillary stuff posted here for the last umpteen months (by Rev, I'd guess every day), I don't think any pots (pun intended) should be calling any kettles black.

[Kathianne]

Speaking for myself, I think my recurrent themes are:
1. How can this guy seriously be his party's nominee, given his dope-loving, military budget- disemboweling self, and
2. For the same reasons, how can anyone support him

I'm pretty sure I have not personally insulted anyone here for liking him. Not really my style.

With all the anti-Trump and Hillary stuff posted here for the last umpteen months (by Rev, I'd guess every day), I don't think any pots (pun intended) should be calling any kettles black.

1. Why is the military supporting him to the same extent as Trump? Why would the officers support him over Trump?

As for the rest, I took to heart when others said to not attack the supporters, haven't for at least 3 seasons now. OTOH, some are doing what they preached against.

No anger, just pointing out hypocrisy by those that have done so.

[fj1200]

FJ, you are silly man. "Free trade is good" is a blanket statement. "Free trade has not been good for America" is not.

I fear you will never learn, sir. Accept what I say as fact. It had been our trade deals that has allowed our position as global leader to stagnate. I will grant that a fair system of trade can benefit all parties. But the systems advocated by Paul Ryan and other cuckservatives has been bad for America. Duh.

I completely overlooked the comedy of you telling someone not to make blanket statements: That's on me. I made a statement and referenced examples; you didn't.

Nevertheless I look forward to your full-throated argument for the big-government establishment to decide how much you should pay for goods and why they should have a say in how businesses make independent decisions.

[fj1200]

You Trumpians should want Johnson in the debates. From what I've heard he is taking more votes from Killary than Trump and if he completely flops maybe it sends the waffling Conservatives Trumps way.

I would never vote for Johnson (or Hillary) but would welcome that different perspective on the stage. Libertarians shot themselves in the foot with Johnson. Austin Peterson would have brought more people over to the LP.

It's no guarantee that an unknown candidate with no executive experience would poll as high as Johnson. LP success is entirely dependent on the Republican candidate this go-round.


Quite true Abbey. Already been whittled down by Obama. Johnson wants more?
His full 'platform' is vile.

I'm pretty sure you don't even know what his platform is.


There's a winner of a comment. Accuse Trump of bigotry with that kind of comment?

No business of him being in the White House or pushing for support.

An idiot who would believe that he said Guam would tip over would be the kind of idiot who would believe that especially considering the source.

[fj1200]

I'm quite sure that Peri knows that Gary isn't Hank.

And we'll have to disagree about choices, I'm not buying into a hippie in a business suit.

If I want to hang out with burned out hippies then I'll drive up the highway and smoke a bong with the hippies living in teepees out of Talkeetna. Not one of them is qualified to be a dogcatcher, and they have the same sorts of ideas.

Then I guess we can agree that she's a troll. ;) I'm also certain that someone else will believe anything about Johnson and did until corrected.

I'm pretty sure Johnson has very little agreement with hippies and I'm also pretty sure that your friends in Talkeetna were not two-term governors with a positive record.


No, he isn't.

Free Trade is good up to a point, but you simply cannot compete with the labor rate of an 8-year old Malaysian girl building your Iphone or Mexicans building your car. That's because we have a quantum leap in standard of living scenarios.

A basic tenet of a healthy economy is having the dollars circulate within the nation. Paying wages, taxes, utilities etc. improves everyone's SOL.

On the other hand, what do we get when Mexico is building Ford's cars? Sure, a cheaper auto, but who benefited from it ultimately? That's right, Ford's stockholders and Mexico.

Spin that any way you want, FJ, but that's the bottom line. Moves like Ford is pulling right now as they invest over 1 BILLION in startup costs is doing nothing but helping to fuck up our economy worse than it is.

Multiply that by thousands of other companies doing the exact same thing and you've got an economic disaster heading full force for all of us.

Of course he is, I've posted ad finitum links and sources showing the positive benefits of free trade. The US is never going to compete on labor rates with the developing world which is why they get the manual labor jobs and we get the educated, capital-intensive jobs. It's all about comparative advantage.

It's not spin, it's economics. Ford has greatly expanded their operations in the US of late. I'm not sure how much more I can do other than point to evidence.


Thanks, I will.

If you haven't learned by now that I loathe hippies of any sort, then you haven't been paying attention. Johnson will continue to reap scorn from me just like any other hippie.

It's just how I roll.:smoke:

Hate hippies all you want. Johnson isn't one and don't get mad if I continue to point it out. Hopefully your support of trump could weather some truth about Johnson.

[Elessar]

It's no guarantee that an unknown candidate with no executive experience would poll as high as Johnson. LP success is entirely dependent on the Republican candidate this go-round.

I'm pretty sure you don't even know what his platform is. His platform was posted here, parts thereof.

An idiot who would believe that he said Guam would tip over would be the kind of idiot who would believe that especially considering the source.
And I replied that I was wrong in saying that, or did you miss my statement?

Big difference between you and many others. I can, as have other members, admitted to being wrong.
You ego will not allow you to admit fault at all.

[NightTrain]

Just joining in what's been happening here since some have chosen to go the 'doper route.' It's not enough to say one disagrees, rather attack on the easy hits.

Not my fault that your man is a doper. He freely admits it, but promised to stop getting stoned while campaigning... probably a solid move. I haven't heard, but has he pledged to stay off pot while Prez?


There are just so many of these 'easy hits' that can be used against Trump and Hillary-oh the Hillary ones have also been a big feature, rather than concentrating on what she's actually done wrong-which are overwhelming in number.

Regardless of what Trump has done and said that are wrong-there's always the minions of giving excuses and saying, 'He'll have the best people...'

We're not talking about Trump or Hillary. This thread is about Johnson and Stein.

[fj1200]

Big difference between you and many others. I can, as have other members, admitted to being wrong.
You ego will not allow you to admit fault at all.

The only person who posted his platform here was me (and only on one issue). Did you want to comment on his actual platform or quotes without context?

I saw you were going to research but I might have missed the results. I would be wrong in that but my comment was directed at you apparently thinking he made a comment about Jews and termites. Do you think he said anything like that?

I can certainly admit to being wrong, you'll just have to point out an example. :)

[Perianne]

Not my fault that your man is a doper. He freely admits it, but promised to stop getting stoned while campaigning... probably a solid move. I haven't heard, but has he pledged to stay off pot while Prez?


Yes, he has said he won't break that Federal law if elected president.


Libertarian Party presidential nominee Gary Johnson opened up Monday about his past marijuana use, but said he would not use the drug during his campaign or if he’s elected president.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282415-libertarian-johnson-would-not-use-marijuana-as-president

[Kathianne]

Not my fault that your man is a doper. He freely admits it, but promised to stop getting stoned while campaigning... probably a solid move. I haven't heard, but has he pledged to stay off pot while Prez?



We're not talking about Trump or Hillary. This thread is about Johnson and Stein.

and Trump admits that being a liar and con man are just fine in business, but he's not doing that now that he's a politician. A much more honorable calling I suppose for a man of such high character. Someone who would stomp the life out of the very people that defend his bombastic monologues while saying nothing of import, but inciting the haters that exist within those that support him.

[NightTrain]

Then I guess we can agree that she's a troll. ;) I'm also certain that someone else will believe anything about Johnson and did until corrected.

I'm pretty sure Johnson has very little agreement with hippies and I'm also pretty sure that your friends in Talkeetna were not two-term governors with a positive record.

I wouldn't say troll, I'd say it's a nice comparison to two political figures both named Johnson, one who is monumentally stupid and the other a bong fiend. It was amusing, what's wrong with funny comparisons?

The hippies I've run across have remarkably similar views (using Chong's voice) :

We should stop polluting and make corporations pay, man...

Occupy Wall Street is a good idea, man...

We should cut our military by about 50%, man...

We should pull back all our overseas troops, man...

We should totally legalize drugs, man...

We should let anyone come in and make all illegals naturalized, man...

The Free Trade bullshit giving away what's left of American manufacturing is just one small part of what makes him unpalatable. He's got way too many groovy ideas going on.


Of course he is, I've posted ad finitum links and sources showing the positive benefits of free trade. The US is never going to compete on labor rates with the developing world which is why they get the manual labor jobs and we get the educated, capital-intensive jobs. It's all about comparative advantage.

It's not spin, it's economics. Ford has greatly expanded their operations in the US of late. I'm not sure how much more I can do other than point to evidence.

If you can't grasp the simple fact that keeping American jobs here in America is the best possible scenario for us, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. This is a no-brainer concept.


Hate hippies all you want. Johnson isn't one and don't get mad if I continue to point it out. Hopefully your support of trump could weather some truth about Johnson.

He's a hippie in a business suit. The only thing missing is a tie-dye shirt and Lennon glasses while throwing a peace sign.

[Kathianne]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/14369882_655714034582390_2425166080153912046_n.jpg ?oh=3e6d2b6b33c736dabec56df437642d37&oe=5875B5EF

[NightTrain]

and Trump admits that being a liar and con man are just fine in business, but he's not doing that now that he's a politician. A much more honorable calling I suppose for a man of such high character. Someone who would stomp the life out of the very people that defend his bombastic monologues while saying nothing of import, but inciting the haters that exist within those that support him.


Again, we're not talking about Trump.

[Kathianne]

Again, we're not talking about Trump.

Actually, we were talking about presidential candidates, morality, character...

You know, how threads develop onto other things while going on. That's what's said when those that agree do so.

[fj1200]

I wouldn't say troll, I'd say it's a nice comparison to two political figures both named Johnson, one who is monumentally stupid and the other a bong fiend. It was amusing, what's wrong with funny comparisons?

The hippies I've run across have remarkably similar views (using Chong's voice) :

We should stop polluting and make corporations pay, man...

Occupy Wall Street is a good idea, man...

We should cut our military by about 50%, man...

We should pull back all our overseas troops, man...

We should totally legalize drugs, man...

We should let anyone come in and make all illegals naturalized, man...

The Free Trade bullshit giving away what's left of American manufacturing is just one small part of what makes him unpalatable. He's got way too many groovy ideas going on.

If you can't grasp the simple fact that keeping American jobs here in America is the best possible scenario for us, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. This is a no-brainer concept.

He's a hippie in a business suit. The only thing missing is a tie-dye shirt and Lennon glasses while throwing a peace sign.

It's an ignorant comparison but if it amuses you... And a bong fiend might just be providing us our daily posting options. :poke:

You have free-market hippies in Alaska? I'll have to look them up when I finally get up there.

And rather than comment on each of your, shall we say, simplifications of what he believes I'll wait for the particulars.

We're not giving anything away of American manufacturing, we're almost at record output levels, we're just doing it with fewer actual workers. And we're keeping plenty of jobs in America, good jobs and not ones that are done at low levels of education. You should engage your brain, it's a wonderful organ that keeps us from believing populist drivel. Did you want to comment in the other thread about trump being wrong, or at least incomplete, about Ford? Since this thread is about Johnson and Stein of course.

BTW, at least he doesn't "cherish" OWS. ;)

[NightTrain]

Actually, we were talking about presidential candidates, morality, character...

You know, how threads develop onto other things while going on. That's what's said when those that agree do so.


Actually, I've noticed that it is you and FJ that keep trying to interject Trump into the conversation as a diversionary tactic and I don't know why you're both unwilling to discuss Johnson's shortcomings as a Presidential candidate.

You both have about 8,000 Trump Bashing posts in about a thousand Trump threads - we all know you don't like him and you have free access to add on another comment about how terrible Trump is. We're talking about Johnson and Stein in this particular thread.

[Kathianne]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14344751_10153360503574364_118247423307637261_n.pn g?oh=5c21764439da500f801b673c355f87b6&oe=588150E5

[Perianne]

The only person who posted his platform here was me (and only on one issue). Did you want to comment on his actual platform or quotes without context?

I saw you were going to research but I might have missed the results. I would be wrong in that but my comment was directed at you apparently thinking he made a comment about Jews and termites. Do you think he said anything like that?

I can certainly admit to being wrong, you'll just have to point out an example. :)

FJ, you amuse me.

In real life you would fall in love with me, but I would reject you because you would have to do and think as I say. I don't think you would agree to that. Then you would do eternal self-flagellation for missing out on the chance to be with me.

As for the Johnsons, think of the past. There was Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson. Andrew was a drunk. Lyndon was a major butthole. Both Andrew and Lyndon followed presidents who were assassinated and probably would not have been elected if not for the pity of the voters. Hank and Gary are goofballs...probably likeable in real life, but goofy.

I cannot imagine how anyone who calls himself conservative can not vote for Trump. Hillary is substantially worse.

[fj1200]

Actually, I've noticed that it is you and FJ that keep trying to interject Trump into the conversation as a diversionary tactic and I don't know why you're both unwilling to discuss Johnson's shortcomings as a Presidential candidate.

You both have about 8,000 Trump Bashing posts in about a thousand Trump threads - we all know you don't like him and you have free access to add on another comment about how terrible Trump is. We're talking about Johnson and Stein in this particular thread.

Actual ones or ones err, incorrect restatements that amuse you?

[fj1200]

FJ, you amuse me.

In real life you would fall in love with me, but I would reject you because you would have to do and think as I say. I don't think you would agree to that. Then you would do eternal self-flagellation for missing out on the chance to be with me.

As for the Johnsons, think of the past. There was Andrew Johnson and Lyndon Johnson. Andrew was a drunk. Lyndon was a major butthole. Both Andrew and Lyndon followed presidents who were assassinated and probably would not have been elected if not for the pity of the voters. Hank and Gary are goofballs...probably likeable in real life, but goofy.

I cannot imagine how anyone who calls himself conservative can not vote for Trump. Hillary is substantially worse.

Let me know when you can add to the debate with intelligence rather than being wrong on almost every point. Besides, if you'll look I've already compared trump to LBJ along with Hoover and Wilson. See that? I can think deeper than a name and pulling crap out of thin air. :)

[Kathianne]

Actually, I've noticed that it is you and FJ that keep trying to interject Trump into the conversation as a diversionary tactic and I don't know why you're both unwilling to discuss Johnson's shortcomings as a Presidential candidate.

You both have about 8,000 Trump Bashing posts in about a thousand Trump threads - we all know you don't like him and you have free access to add on another comment about how terrible Trump is. We're talking about Johnson and Stein in this particular thread.

Ok.

He said he won't smoke dope as a candidate or if he won. You dismiss. Not so with the candidate you admire so highly. Why is that?

I notice many are avoiding any discussion of what Johnson gets right, only characterizations that dismiss. Yet orange hair and bad tanning crap doesn't give you pause? His bad business practices? Oh never mind, that's just business. He'll be great as president.

[NightTrain]

Actual ones or ones that amuse you?


Both.

I can't afford to pass up hippie bashing... life's too short to miss the good times!

[NightTrain]

Ok.

He said he won't smoke dope as a candidate or if he won. You dismiss. Not so with the candidate you admire so highly. Why is that?

I notice many are avoiding any discussion of what Johnson gets right, only characterizations that dismiss. Yet orange hair and bad tanning crap doesn't give you pause? His bad business practices? Oh never mind, that's just business. He'll be great as president.

Again, we're talking about Johnson. Not Trump.

Very well, what do you think is Johnson's strengths? Other than the Not-Trump thing.

[Kathianne]

Again, we're talking about Johnson. Not Trump.

Very well, what do you think is Johnson's strengths? Other than the Not-Trump thing.

Again, thread development onto others. If it's good enough for the rest of the board, so it is with us.

[Kathianne]

Again, we're talking about Johnson. Not Trump.

Very well, what do you think is Johnson's strengths? Other than the Not-Trump thing.

First he's not TRUMP or Hillary.

Second, he's not saying he's going to be different if elected in character than he was before running-he just won't toke up.

Third, he's believable, which of course is related to the previous two points.

He has a record of working as a GOP governor in a blue state and still being highly regarded by the citizens of that state. He held spending, didn't raise taxes, and didn't create drama.

There's plenty of things I don't agree with him on, but at least there's enough consistency to judge.

[NightTrain]

First he's not TRUMP or Hillary.

Second, he's not saying he's going to be different if elected in character than he was before running-he just won't toke up.

Third, he's believable, which of course is related to the previous two points.

He has a record of working as a GOP governor in a blue state and still being highly regarded by the citizens of that state. He held spending, didn't raise taxes, and didn't create drama.

There's plenty of things I don't agree with him on, but at least there's enough consistency to judge.


Well, so much for the Not-Trump thing.

You're voting for Johnson because he's believable and New Mexicans liked him? That's it?

[Kathianne]

Well, so much for the Not-Trump thing.

You're voting for Johnson because he's believable and New Mexicans liked him? That's it?

I am not agreeing with your not-Trump thing. It's less than 2 months from the election, only fools wouldn't look at comparisons. Neither you nor myself are fools.

Well and you know, the whole overlap with conservative thinking. No increase in Medicaid as Trump is hoping for. Certainly he's not proposing any additional entitlements, like Trump and Hillary. He is for controlling spending and a working budget. He has a track record of working with others with transparency. You know, stuff that some used to think were important. :rolleyes:

[NightTrain]

It's an ignorant comparison but if it amuses you... And a bong fiend might just be providing us our daily posting options. :poke:

And monkeys might fly out of my butt.


You have free-market hippies in Alaska? I'll have to look them up when I finally get up there.

Free everything, man! Even needles for when you really wanna party, man!


And rather than comment on each of your, shall we say, simplifications of what he believes I'll wait for the particulars.

Feel free to correct me! You won't hurt my feelers even a little, I promise.


We're not giving anything away of American manufacturing, we're almost at record output levels, we're just doing it with fewer actual workers. And we're keeping plenty of jobs in America, good jobs and not ones that are done at low levels of education. You should engage your brain, it's a wonderful organ that keeps us from believing populist drivel. Did you want to comment in the other thread about trump being wrong, or at least incomplete, about Ford? Since this thread is about Johnson and Stein of course.

Ouch. My feelers just got stepped on.


BTW, at least he doesn't "cherish" OWS. ;)

Either he was pandering to the unwashed retards or he buys into being kept down by The Man, which is a common reoccurring theme among hippies. Which do you think it was?

I have my ideas as to where that came from, but I'm curious as to what you think.

[Perianne]

We're not giving anything away of American manufacturing...

Do you seriously want to stand by that statement???? hahaha

[Perianne]

And monkeys might fly out of my butt.


I like monkeys. But not poopoo monkeys.

[Elessar]

We're not giving anything away of American manufacturing, we're almost at record output levels,



What record output levels? We need positions with jobs here, not outside the borders.

Then why is it our steel mills shut down and we have to purchase lesser quality materials
from China? That cheap crap is what caused the collapse of the Bay Bridge.

Why have our textile mills shut down, leaving us to rely on cheap fabrics from Central
America, Asia, and India?

Why do my razor blades "Made in China" last 1/4 less that the USA made ones did?

Why did auto manufacturing go to Mexico?

Why did most electronic technology go to India and the Mid-East or Asia?

People need jobs in USA Industry, not watching what we could be doing coming
into this nation on a container ship.

[crin63]

It's no guarantee that an unknown candidate with no executive experience would poll as high as Johnson. LP success is entirely dependent on the Republican candidate this go-round.

Several of my Conservative friends watched the Libertarian debates. Peterson was the only one that they could possibly support. Now they will likely vote for Trump.

[Kathianne]

Several of my Conservative friends watched the Libertarian debates. Peterson was the only one that they could possibly support. Now they will likely vote for Trump.

Totally understand. The fact of the matter for me is that unlike so many folks that I do respect, there's no way I could put the stylus next to Hillary or Trump. I don't disrespect those that can, party over anything else. I get that.

[fj1200]

Several of my Conservative friends watched the Libertarian debates. Peterson was the only one that they could possibly support. Now they will likely vote for Trump.

I don't dispute that. My contention is Johnson is polling higher than anyone else would. And trump over Johnson for an actual Libertarian? I do dispute that.

[fj1200]

Both.

I can't afford to pass up hippie bashing... life's too short to miss the good times!

It seems you don't even care about the answers.


...

Either he was pandering to the unwashed retards or he buys into being kept down by The Man, which is a common reoccurring theme among hippies. Which do you think it was?

I have my ideas as to where that came from, but I'm curious as to what you think.

trump "cherishes" OWS. What do you think about that? Question withdrawn; how dare anything else be raised. :rolleyes:

BTW, I have an idea of what he meant; I read his op-ed he wrote afterward.

[fj1200]

Do you seriously want to stand by that statement???? hahaha

Of course. Because it's truth and fact.


What record output levels? We need positions with jobs here, not outside the borders.

Then why is it our steel mills shut down and we have to purchase lesser quality materials
from China? That cheap crap is what caused the collapse of the Bay Bridge.

Why have our textile mills shut down, leaving us to rely on cheap fabrics from Central
America, Asia, and India?

Why do my razor blades "Made in China" last 1/4 less that the USA made ones did?

Why did auto manufacturing go to Mexico?

Why did most electronic technology go to India and the Mid-East or Asia?

People need jobs in USA Industry, not watching what we could be doing coming
into this nation on a container ship.

The near record output levels of domestic manufacturing; We're almost to the record levels of '08/'09. Uncompetitive steel mills shut down; We still make 70+% of domestic consumption. Textiles are a labor intensive product; the US will never be competitive on labor cost. I really don't know about your razor blades; Buy American. Ford has greatly expanded their US presence of recent years; Perhaps you've heard mention. Electronic assembly is a low-margin, labor-intensive process that adds very little value to the finished product; Apple has huge iPhone profits and it's because the US excels at innovation.

The US will never have the manufacturing jobs that we've had previously and that's because we make more and we do it with fewer people. We dig coal out of the ground with one man running advanced equipment; would you prefer we had 100 men down there with shovels? Robots are superior spot welders with zero errors; would you prefer 100 guys trying to achieve the same quality and coming up short?

This isn't to say we can't do better by having a better corporate tax policy but protectionism is not the answer; The Great Depression should have cured the world of that notion.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

How the hell is it good for America by having all our companies set up shop down in Mexico? Do you really think that cheaper labor down in Mexico for the Ford car you're driving helps anyone but that particular company and the Mexican economy?

American jobs mean the economy is bolstered by American workers spending money in America. This isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

Hey, my neighbor got a new job tripling his household income. He bought a new car and added another bedroom..
If I join the dem party will they magically convince and brainwash me into believing that helped me in some way?
Well not me, but they do the poorly educated people, those turned out from the many decades old -liberal/socialistic public education system the last 40+ years!

Myself, I prefer reality over fantasy and bullshit..
Yet the hungry and ignorantly blinded masses prefer to eat the bullshit it seems.
And why not, going with the flow and grabbing government freebies is so damn easy...
Easy that is -- until the tragic day comes to pay the damn Pied Piper..--Tyr

[NightTrain]

It seems you don't even care about the answers.

My apologies for my unruly appreciation of humor.

I will endeavor to be a humorless ass from here on out, Humphrey.


trump "cherishes" OWS. What do you think about that? Question withdrawn; how dare anything else be raised. :rolleyes:

BTW, I have an idea of what he meant; I read his op-ed he wrote afterward.

Still can't talk about your man without diverting to Trump, eh?

Very well, I'll wait.

But not holding my breath.

[Abbey Marie]

My apologies for my unruly appreciation of humor.

I will endeavor to be a humorless ass from here on out, Humphrey.



Still can't talk about your man without diverting to Trump, eh?

Very well, I'll wait.

But not holding my breath.

What can you expect when Johnson's entire appeal is that he's "not Trump"? What else is there to say?

[crin63]

Totally understand. The fact of the matter for me is that unlike so many folks that I do respect, there's no way I could put the stylus next to Hillary or Trump. I don't disrespect those that can, party over anything else. I get that.

They can't stand Trump and don't trust him at all. It's all about keeping Hillary out. Not love of Trump. It's the LP platform that keeps people out. Individual candidates could be supported if they come out strong as Pro-Life and Protectionist instead of Isolationist (which may just be in how they convey their message). There are a couple other things also.


I don't dispute that. My contention is Johnson is polling higher than anyone else would. And trump over Johnson for an actual Libertarian? I do dispute that.

I honestly believe that Peterson would be polling higher than Johnson at this point because of the crossover Conservatives that could have backed him.

[Perianne]

My apologies for my unruly appreciation of humor.

I will endeavor to be a humorless ass from here on out, Humphrey.


Humor makes the world go around. Without it, a person is a dull boy, or a dog pecker gnat, Humphrey.

[NightTrain]

What can you expect when Johnson's entire appeal is that he's "not Trump"? What else is there to say?


http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9373&stc=1

[fj1200]

My apologies for my unruly appreciation of humor.

I will endeavor to be a humorless ass from here on out, Humphrey.

No need to endeavor, you've been there. :poke:

;)


Still can't talk about your man without diverting to Trump, eh?

Very well, I'll wait.

But not holding my breath.

I can talk about Johnson all day but you seemingly prefer to not talk about anything other than your preconceived notions. Besides it seems that no one will talk about trump in all the other trump threads that are out there. You want to talk about Ford and trade, there's a thread for that if it offends your sensibilities that it gets brought up here. :rolleyes:


What can you expect when Johnson's entire appeal is that he's "not Trump"? What else is there to say?

I freely admit that if almost any other Republican candidate had gotten the nomination I would be supporting him/her. But when the only conservative left standing is wearing a Libertarian Party jacket then he's got a good chance to get my vote.

But this thread is pretty much how all these threads end, no one is debating and someone starts posting pictures and talking points.


I honestly believe that Peterson would be polling higher than Johnson at this point because of the crossover Conservatives that could have backed him.

It's certainly possible but Peterson is not a two-term governor.

[fj1200]

Actually, Everyone Benefits From Free Trade (http://www.forbes.com/sites/modeledbehavior/2015/10/17/actually-everyone-benefits-from-free-trade/#75109a891221)

[fj1200]

An argument against Establishment control over private decisions:

Who Benefits from Free Trade, and How (https://mises.org/library/who-benefits-free-trade-and-how)

[NightTrain]

You can't tell me that Johnson isn't baked when they ask him what he'd do about Aleppo.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nKb2oiJluLk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Aleppo my bong in the car, man.

[NightTrain]

Don't you dare call them 'Illegal Immigrants'! It's offensive!

My, he's quite the Social Justice Warrior, isn't he?

I find it disturbing that he thinks Obama has deported WAY too many illegals.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-xlmU9LvtAs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A shame that that mean interviewer triggered Johnson like that... seems he's quite a delicate snowflake with the use of naughty words like 'illegal'.

[NightTrain]

Word association on CNN :

Obama : "ahumm... a good guy!"

Hillary : "Hillary Clinton... ummm... a WONDERFUL public servant!"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cIxJicyjLLE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[NightTrain]

Johnson doesn't sound very likable to me...


A sentimental gesture made by one presidential candidate to another backfired this weekend following a contentious and drama-filled Libertarian Party convention.

Former New Mexico Gov. Gary Johnson, who scored the party’s nomination, was gifted a replica Sunday of George Washington’s flintlock pistol by runner-up Austin Petersen.


Tearing up at the close of the Florida convention, Petersen presented Johnson with the pistol as a symbol of party unity.


“You have my sword, and you have my gun,” he said, as the nominee accepted the gift.


But then, Johnson unceremoniously chucked it in the garbage can.


Cue sadness.


The slight apparently was witnessed by several delegates, whose accounts soon popped up on social media and blogs.


Both Johnson and Petersen later acknowledged this happened. Petersen voiced surprise at Johnson's actions.


“It’s a very prized possession of mine,” Petersen told FoxNews.com, when reached for comment on Wednesday.

​http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/01/libertarian-nominee-accepts-rival-s-gift-washington-replica-pistol-then-trashes-it.html

[NightTrain]

We may as well take a gander at Weld, Johnson's Veep :

- Loves that gun control

- Eminent Domain? Good stuff!

- Affirmative Action is the best.

- Hardcore environmental regs? Full speed ahead!

At least we didn't see the makeout session between Weld and Obama after giving a glowing endorsement in '08 :

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BeWroClQhbs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



How are these two Libertarian again? :confused:

[NightTrain]

How does Johnson rate in the Religious Freedom category?

Not very well, it would appear, Humphrey.


For months, Libertarian party candidate Gary Johnson has been pooh-poohing the idea of religious liberty, saying that he has no problem with private business owners being forced by the government to participate in gay nuptials that run counter to their religious beliefs. How a "libertarian" would be in favor of the government telling cake bakers, florists, and wedding photographers that they must participate in religious ceremonies they don't believe in is simply baffling.

The media coverage of religious freedom has been terrible, and lots of people misunderstand the issue. But Johnson doesn't have any excuses. It's not just that his religious freedom rhetoric undermines his credibility as a viable candidate in a year where a third-party option could finally be welcome in American politics—it's that what he's saying isn't at all libertarian.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/once-again-gary-johnson-completely-misunderstands-religious-freedom/article/2003645

[fj1200]

Discussion is dead.

[NightTrain]

Discussion is dead.

It would be hard as hell to mitigate their actual words. Don't blame you.

[NightTrain]

Then there is the all-important SCOTUS :


JOHNSON: Really, there are going to be no litmus test. You're going to appoint good people, and you're going appoint people that look at the Constitution of original intent.

WELD: Well, I don't think you have to panic and say it has to be a way lefty or way righty. Steve Breyer has been a good justice. He was appointed by Democrats.


GILLESPIE: A Massachusetts guy, right?


WELD: A Massachusetts guy. Merrick Garland, I think, would have been a very good pick, and he's nominated by Obama.


Holy. Crap.



Leave it to the Libertarians. They have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to remove their party from the fringes and they blow it by putting this buffoon Weld on the ticket.

Look, I get that a Libertarian is going to have different ideas from a doctrinaire conservative and I am not expecting them to say that they want to nominate a Scalia clone and that they love Ted Cruz. I would expect them to at least say they would prefer a Posner or an Alex Kozinski or someone who is, you know, Libertarian.

And if they are going to praise members of Congress I would expect them to trot out Rand Paul or heck maybe even Ron Wyden if they wanted a Democrat to throw in the mix.

Susan freaking Collins and Stephen Breyer? I already have Hillary if I want to hear this pablum, guys.

http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/29/gary-johnson-tell-william-weld-shut-hell-wants-vote/

[jimnyc]

How does Johnson rate in the Religious Freedom category?

Not very well, it would appear, Humphrey.



http://www.weeklystandard.com/once-again-gary-johnson-completely-misunderstands-religious-freedom/article/2003645

Is that for real? He believes folks should be forced to do these things? Some of us were worried that someday we would see some forced, I only thought it would have come from the left, not folks on the right. :(

[jimnyc]

Then there is the all-important SCOTUS :




Holy. Crap.




http://www.redstate.com/leon_h_wolf/2016/07/29/gary-johnson-tell-william-weld-shut-hell-wants-vote/

They would put in good people, just apparently good lefties? WTF?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It would be hard as hell to mitigate their actual words. Don't blame you.

When a 36 gun naval frigate hits your ship full broadside with ball and grapeshot, only thing left to do is sink and swim for it if still alive..

Of course the few diehard enemy will still attempt to mouth off while trying not to drown IMHO.

Often only stopped, after a few hundred mouthfuls of saltwater drowns ém out..... ;) -TYR

[NightTrain]

What about Johnson's vaunted New Mexico fiscal track record as Guvna?


The assumption is that someone whose label is “Libertarian” has libertarian values and would promote them in office.

In the case of Johnson, that notion is absurd.

When Johnson took the tiller in New Mexico in 1995, the budget stood at $4.397 billion. When he left in 2003, it had grown to $7.721 billion, an increase of 7.29 percent a year. Of the eleven governors who filed to run for president this year (two Democrats, Johnson, and eight Republicans), only one had a worse record on spending growth.

In New Mexico, Bill Richardson, Johnson’s Democratic successor, clocked in a little better than he did, but Richardson’s successor, Susana Martinez, has shown what a fiscal conservative looks like: New Mexico currently spends less than it did when she took office. It’s not just at a state level that being more fiscally conservative than Johnson is a bipartisan achievement. Federal spending during the time Johnson was in office grew at an average annual rate of 4.49 percent.

Late Clinton and early Bush weren’t as successful in their efforts to fight spending cuts as they might have been, but Johnson makes them look like Coolidge, and federal spending since then has grown at an average annual rate of 4.56 percent.

Johnson also claims to have balanced the budget every year, but what he means by this is that he complied with the New Mexico constitution, which as a practical matter prohibits operational spending deficits. New Mexico’s debt is required to be off the books, or at least off those books, in a separate “capital outlay” budget.

This means that of course his operating budgets were balanced; New Mexico makes the alternative impossible. The capital outlays are considered “balanced” if it is believed that they can likely be paid for in the future, and rosy assumptions are permitted. It’s as if you or I claimed to be debt-free because our current account, which does not allow for overdrafts, had no overdrafts, despite our taking out ever more maxed-out credit cards and making minimum payments on each.

In the sense that Johnson says he balanced the budgets, every president and Congress in history has passed balanced federal budgets 100 percent of the time.

In fact, Johnson inherited a debt of $1.8 billion and left a debt of $4.6 billion, a rate of increase unmatched by the 22 governors in either party who have filed for presidential primaries in the past two decades, with the exception of Governor Tom Vilsack (D., Iowa) in 2007.

During every year that Johnson, as he says, balanced the budget, he added to the debt. As with so many big-government types, government growth under his administration was greater not only quantitatively but qualitatively. That is, he expanded government into new and illegitimate areas. Most notably, he created a new form of the refundable tax credit, a film subsidy that has since spread like a cancer across America. Plenty of other governors imitated Johnson’s pattern of buying publicity, including photo opportunities with celebrities, by paying, cash down, for filmmakers to move out of some other state; traditional subsidies just weren’t generous enough to enable states to compete.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435704/gary-johnson-libertarian-party-2016-conservatives


How is he a fiscal conservative again?

[Abbey Marie]

How does Johnson rate in the Religious Freedom category?

Not very well, it would appear, Humphrey.



http://www.weeklystandard.com/once-again-gary-johnson-completely-misunderstands-religious-freedom/article/2003645


From my knowledge of Libertarian canon, I would have thought that religious freedom, particularly from government, would be sacrosanct. Holy Cannoli.

@fj1200 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=728) , you have poked the bear, lol.

[NightTrain]

I can talk about Johnson all day but you seemingly prefer to not talk about anything other than your preconceived notions.


Well, here we are with a decent selection of actual quotes from reputable news sites and I've just scratched the surface with researching Johnson/Weld.

Not to mention the videos of them making some of these statements in HD for viewing goodness.

I've got all day free. Let's discuss!

[jimnyc]

Well, here we are with a decent selection of actual quotes from reputable news sites and I've just scratched the surface with researching Johnson/Weld.

Not to mention the videos of them making some of these statements in HD for viewing goodness.

I've got all day free. Let's discuss!

I'm curious myself to hear a bit from those who support Johnson. Their thoughts on potentially being forced to do such religious things? About Weld and his scotus stance, knowing especially what we are facing with the next term? Those 2 alone are huge killers IMO. Then add in the drug stuff. And now reading the spending stuff... I'll be curious as well to hear about the fiscal conservative stuff...

[jimnyc]

Discussion is dead.

Disregard stuff that you don't like - but I see plenty of discussion to be had here about Johnson's stances. There is TONS that is being posted that can be replied to. One would think you would jump at the chance to correct these obviously incorrect articles that are being posted. :)

[Kathianne]

Disregard stuff that you don't like - but I see plenty of discussion to be had here about Johnson's stances. There is TONS that is being posted that can be replied to. One would think you would jump at the chance to correct these obviously incorrect articles that are being posted. :)

Actually it reminds me of the whole, 'Why all this anti-X candidate talk? What about your guy?' Someone used to make this a mantra.

Personally I don't care about the attacks on Johnson, whether the 'attack' on Aleppo, while ignoring trumps 'nuclear triad' deficiency. the whole thing pretty funny, considering most of his supporters are recognizing their votes are for any candidate that isn't a con man, a criminal, commie, or socialist. (BTW, the last is questionable regarding either of the two parties candidates.) He certainly would get more scrutiny if a 3rd party was viable, but we all know it isn't.

It may be influential or not in the outcome of the election though.

Alas, the new liberals are joining the old liberals, meaning supporters either of the current major party candidates:

http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/23/a-reading-guide-to-lefty-panic-attacks-a

[jimnyc]

Not earth shattering, but just plain weird!

-----

People Were Left Silent When Gary Johnson Stuck Out His Tongue During This Interview

Gary Johnson was making the argument for why he should be allowed on the debate stage when he did the strangest thing: he stuck out his tongue and tried to talk.

“People would recognize that there’s another choice,” Johnson told NBC’s Kasie Hunt. “There would be an examination of me and Bill Weld as who we are and what we’ve done.”

Then Johnson stuck out his tongue — and kept going with his argument.

“I’m not gonna stand up there for the whole debate and not say anything and [incomprehensible].”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXhR41lsEJY

[Kathianne]

No weirder than the twitter nonsense, the email scandals, the foundations, the hair dye, bad haircuts and bad tanning, the no tax releases, the health issues, the lawsuits...

[jimnyc]

Actually it reminds me of the whole, 'Why all this anti-X candidate talk? What about your guy?' Someone used to make this a mantra.

Yup, that was me, you can just come out and say it. I found it odd that some folks NEVER spoke of someone they were for, but posted almost solely about the person they don't like. And I STILL stand by those comments. But why does Trump's name even come up at all here? This is one of the rare times that a thread is dedicated to Johnson, and seems you and FJ are a tad upset at a few of us throwing out facts about his campaign. I don't get that, why? Why not simply address the articles and questions? When you guys bash Trump, I surely don't sit back and keep tossing Johnson into the thread.

Seems to me like some facts came out about Johnson that really can't be supported, and it's turning personal instead of folks just addressing the articles. And now this about a "mantra"?

Seems to me that you guys are acting like Gabby Juniors for a moment, and saying "BUSH" instead of addressing the facts in front of us in a thread.

I'm ALL for talking about my guy, and WE all have done that non-stop. But pick on the stoner guy who sticks out his tongue and doesn't even know current news? Can't have that!!

[jimnyc]

No weirder than the twitter nonsense, the email scandals, the foundations, the hair dye, bad haircuts and bad tanning, the no tax releases, the health issues, the lawsuits...

The more folks dance around Johnson and immediately revert to Trump - just makes it that much more laughable.

And yet the guy you seemingly cannot let go of - is outright destroying the stoner!

[jimnyc]

At least I won't have to deal with a dolt on stage, likely stoned from his edibles, acting like he actually knows what Aleppo is, and acting like he doesn't have a liberal for a running mate!! :lol:

[jimnyc]

At least there is some good news for the failed Johnson - he has done great in the polls within this thread!! Hell, if he gets a few more posts, we may even let him on our debate stage! :laugh:

[Kathianne]

The more folks dance around Johnson and immediately revert to Trump - just makes it that much more laughable.

And yet the guy you seemingly cannot let go of - is outright destroying the stoner!

Gee and all this time we were saying Johnson would win.

I'm not mad, just pointing out the hypocrisy. I actually am enjoying watching the list of things NT has come up with-most of which I'm well aware of. Funny thing is he's still better than the other two-and that certainly is a pity.

[jimnyc]

Gee and all this time we were saying Johnson would win.

I'm not mad, just pointing out the hypocrisy. I actually am enjoying watching the list of things NT has come up with-most of which I'm well aware of. Funny thing is he's still better than the other two-and that certainly is a pity.

And yet you can't address them without snark, imagine that. Amazing when someone can win a debate without debating, by simply posting the facts.

Well done, NT, well done, you win!

[jimnyc]

I hope Gabby logs in today, maybe she can hit this thread and bring up Bush. Would make complete sense!

[NightTrain]

Gee and all this time we were saying Johnson would win.

I'm not mad, just pointing out the hypocrisy. I actually am enjoying watching the list of things NT has come up with-most of which I'm well aware of. Funny thing is he's still better than the other two-and that certainly is a pity.

You were aware of everything I posted?

Then how on earth did you manage to say that Johnson "held spending" in New Mexico?

Fiscal Conservative he most certainly is not. In fact, I daresay the reverse is true.

Did you watch the PC vid and read the article about throwing away the gun gift his defeated opponent gave him? Still say he's a "nice guy" or "likable"?

[jimnyc]

You were aware of everything I posted?

Then how on earth did you manage to say that Johnson "held spending" in New Mexico?

Fiscal Conservative he most certainly is not. In fact, I daresay the reverse is true.

Did you watch the PC vid and read the article about throwing away the gun gift his defeated opponent gave him? Still say he's a "nice guy" or "likable"?

But Trump has funny looking hair!! :lol:

[Kathianne]

And yet you can't address them without snark, imagine that. Amazing when someone can win a debate without debating, by simply posting the facts.

Well done, NT, well done, you win!

Oh, there's been lots of facts given on all the candidates, but that was when it was said, "That was then and this is now."

Ok, here's the responses to what has been listed.

That was when he was governor, it will be different if he's elected president.
He used to smoke dope, he won't as president, he said so.
He was for those things, now he's not.
He's not going to say exactly what he's doing, that would be tipping his hand.
Everyone changes their minds, haven't you noticed the two main candidates have done so at least once?
He was just kidding, for god's sake, anyone with a sense of humor should get it.
He'll appoint the very best people, very best!

[jimnyc]

I guess it must just suck to 'think' you are behind a good candidate, only to have the rug pulled out from under you. Thinking there are 2 idiots running from the major parties, only to wake up one day and find out your guy is the biggest idiot of them all. So much so, that it's not even debatable, the subject MUST be changed and one CANNOT address such articles.

But I'm willing to bet that GWB is behind it all. :laugh:

[NightTrain]

Oh, there's been lots of facts given on all the candidates, but that was when it was said, "That was then and this is now."

Ok, here's the responses to what has been listed.

That was when he was governor, it will be different if he's elected president.
He used to smoke dope, he won't as president, he said so.
He was for those things, now he's not.
He's not going to say exactly what he's doing, that would be tipping his hand.
Everyone changes their minds, haven't you noticed the two main candidates have done so at least once?
He was just kidding, for god's sake, anyone with a sense of humor should get it.
He'll appoint the very best people, very best!

That might fly, except for the fact that most of what I posted was very recent.

[Kathianne]

That might fly, except for the fact that most of what I posted was very recent.

I expect that somewhere in that list, nearly all is taken care of. After all, with no real effort, all can be dismissed. It's all about hope, change, and anger.

[Kathianne]

I guess it must just suck to 'think' you are behind a good candidate, only to have the rug pulled out from under you. Thinking there are 2 idiots running from the major parties, only to wake up one day and find out your guy is the biggest idiot of them all. So much so, that it's not even debatable, the subject MUST be changed and one CANNOT address such articles.

But I'm willing to bet that GWB is behind it all. :laugh:

Probably. I'm betting there is lots of buyer's remorse going to be coming around down the road.

[NightTrain]

And yet you can't address them without snark, imagine that. Amazing when someone can win a debate without debating, by simply posting the facts.

Well done, NT, well done, you win!


:thanks:

[Kathianne]

I guess it must just suck to 'think' you are behind a good candidate, only to have the rug pulled out from under you. Thinking there are 2 idiots running from the major parties, only to wake up one day and find out your guy is the biggest idiot of them all. So much so, that it's not even debatable, the subject MUST be changed and one CANNOT address such articles.

But I'm willing to bet that GWB is behind it all. :laugh:

Just have to clarify, warts and all-Johnson still is better than the other two. Without a doubt.

I'd say that first bit, is a bit of self-shaking on what has been bought.

[jimnyc]

Oh, there's been lots of facts given on all the candidates, but that was when it was said, "That was then and this is now."

Ok, here's the responses to what has been listed.

That was when he was governor, it will be different if he's elected president.
He used to smoke dope, he won't as president, he said so.
He was for those things, now he's not.
He's not going to say exactly what he's doing, that would be tipping his hand.
Everyone changes their minds, haven't you noticed the two main candidates have done so at least once?
He was just kidding, for god's sake, anyone with a sense of humor should get it.
He'll appoint the very best people, very best!

Amazing ^^^ This is what anger looks like, and the snark that comes out, when someone doesn't like being questioned about someone they support. I would have thought better, that you could have handled JUST ONE thread about Johnson, JUST ONE MAYBE, but it appears I may have been mistaken. It's a shame that you can't simply pick out the articles, and the decent questions that were asked about Johnson. You CHOSE to go the snark route, at least with me, when I didn't say a damn word to you.

Trump may very well lose this election. But I'll hold myself together, even if not thrilled about it all. The one thing I won't do, and haven't done, is turn on my friends.

[Kathianne]

Totally OT, these types of posts have to be some 'guy thing:'

[jimnyc]

Just have to clarify, warts and all-Johnson still is better than the other two. Without a doubt.

I'd say that first bit, is a bit of self-shaking on what has been bought.

Quite frankly, I think he sucks, and is much worse than Trump. This guy is a fucking idiot and just above Hillary, IMO.

[jimnyc]

Totally OT, these types of posts have to be some 'guy thing:'

I had to back-end into editing this post, but had to also delete the rest due to all of the attributes that were copied/pasted into your post, which also made the page 'not load' as a result. Feel free to re-post, without all of the attributes of course.

[Kathianne]

Amazing ^^^ This is what anger looks like, and the snark that comes out, when someone doesn't like being questioned about someone they support. I would have thought better, that you could have handled JUST ONE thread about Johnson, JUST ONE MAYBE, but it appears I may have been mistaken. It's a shame that you can't simply pick out the articles, and the decent questions that were asked about Johnson. You CHOSE to go the snark route, at least with me, when I didn't say a damn word to you.

Trump may very well lose this election. But I'll hold myself together, even if not thrilled about it all. The one thing I won't do, and haven't done, is turn on my friends.

I haven't turned on anyone. Geez guys, again tempers get up and the whole thing goes to pot.

How's this. I'll vote for Trump. Feel better?

[Kathianne]

BTW Jim, thanks for fixing the problem I inadvertently caused.

[jimnyc]

I haven't turned on anyone. Geez guys, again tempers get up and the whole thing goes to pot.

How's this. I'll vote for Trump. Feel better?

I'll settle for just not entering threads, selecting me out, and then bringing stuff up from the past, as if somehow I'm a bad guy - instead of simply discussing things and addressing articles. THAT'S when the whole thing went to pot. In fact, I don't think I even sad anything to you at all prior to that? Odd that I was even quoted and then addressed in such a manner. One would have thought that maybe I had insulted you somehow, or quoted you and did similar.

[Kathianne]

I'll settle for just not entering threads, selecting me out, and then bringing stuff up from the past, as if somehow I'm a bad guy - instead of simply discussing things and addressing articles. THAT'S when the whole thing went to pot. In fact, I don't think I even sad anything to you at all prior to that? Odd that I was even quoted and then addressed in such a manner. One would have thought that maybe I had insulted you somehow, or quoted you and did similar.

I responded privately and am not going on anymore about it.

I love Trump.

[jimnyc]

I responded privately and am not going on anymore about it.

I love Trump.

You can't even just let things go properly, you just have to toss in the "Trump" stuff at the end. Amazing. And I'd just LOVE to see how many "anti=Johnson" threads are out there in our community - and how many have been made about Trump. ENDLESS ENDLESS ENDLESS threads bashing Trump - ENDLESS.

Feel free to continue your Trump bashathon - uninterrupted of course!

[jimnyc]

:thanks:

That Smiley is lacking in hair, like Trump.

[Kathianne]

I said your guy is my choice. Can we all play nicely now?

[sundaydriver]

I said your guy is my choice. Can we all play nicely now?

I thought you were Cruz for a second! I guess you're running in 2020 and need the base too. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[jimnyc]

I said your guy is my choice. Can we all play nicely now?

Still at it? "your guy is my choice". Yup, the obsession continues. I'll do you a favor and ignore your posts and give no replies. You win. Now it can be a bash Trump and never ever question Johnson free for all for you. I don't need to play games with someone who literally cannot handle one thread - to the point she feels the need to go after a friend for no reason. So be it, your choice, you get what you choose.

[jimnyc]

So back on topic...

Johnson will be an afterthought come Tuesday, and as his polls shrunk again, he will as well be a deserved afterthought come the next 2 debates. His average of 8.9 makes Perot look like a political rock star. And the majority of this was prior to him needing a remedial geography lesson & his stoned way of talking while biting his tongue.

I bet dollars to donuts that he is NO WAY the libertarian tickets choice come 2020.

[Russ]

I understand that Gary Johnson has two important endorsement on the verge of happening

1. The Frito-Lay workers of America, especially those involved in making Cheetohs and Doritos, are very interested in Gary Johnson being the next President.
2. St. Jude Thaddeus, the patron saint of lost causes, will be endorsing Gary Johnson sometime on Monday.

[Elessar]

I hope Gabby logs in today, maybe she can hit this thread and bring up Bush. Would make complete sense!

O.K......I missed this one.

Funny...the past 8 years are GWB's fault!:laugh: