Admitting Your Problem

[Perianne]

‘Racists Anonymous’ groups at churches: The first step is admitting you have a problem



With the familiar backdrop of a 12-step program — folding chairs, burned coffee, the Serenity Prayer — people can explore the often uncharted terrain of their own feelings about race, said Ron Buford, pastor of the Congregational Community Church in Sunnyvale.

“The first step is that you have to acknowledge that you have a problem,” he said. “That is something that we as Americans don’t want to do.”


The barrier to growth is steep, though. Not too many people are willing to sit down in front of a group, and say “Hi, My name is Ron, and I’m a racist,” he said. “A lot are not convinced, but they become convinced over time.”

About a dozen people began meeting every Thursday. Since then, as tensions have intensified along with increasingly racially charged campaign rhetoric, more than 30 other churches have requested materials to start their own groups — from Baltimore to Coral Gables, Fla.



Coming soon to a community near you.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/08/31/some-churches-are-forming-racists-anonymous-groups-for-those-brave-enough-to-join/#comments

[Gunny]

That's BS. Going to come up with a 12 step program for racists, are they? They don't know what they're doing. If you ask me,

Get rid of the race baiters. THERE is a solution.

[Noir]

Seems a good idea, if someone accepts that they do not treat other humans as they should and want to change, that should be welcomed. Sadly I imagine many racists are quite happy (even proud) of their racism.

[Drummond]

Seems a good idea, if someone accepts that they do not treat other humans as they should and want to change, that should be welcomed. Sadly I imagine many racists are quite happy (even proud) of their racism.

And when we all think in lockstep according to PC imperatives ... will you then, and only then, be content, Noir ?

You are a Leftie, and I claim my £5 ....

[Noir]

And when we all think in lockstep according to PC imperatives ... will you then, and only then, be content, Noir ?

You are a Leftie, and I claim my £5 ....

Yeah if the 'PC imperative' in question is 'we should not be prejudice towards someone based on their skin colour' then I regard that as a positive thing.

Do you not regard that as a positive thing?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Yeah if the 'PC imperative' in question is 'we should not be prejudice towards someone based on their skin colour' then I regard that as a positive thing.

Do you not regard that as a positive thing?

You are clueless, its not about skin color. Its more about cultural conflict, human interaction that comes from who people want to identify with and belong to as a group..
There is a reason that blacks as a race make the highest prison population in this nation..
There is reason they are more prone to be violent and criminal.

Both, you and your kind refuse to even consider.

Same thing with the gays,THE MUSLIMS--- they are by and large not a group I want to be associated within any way.
Because of my morals you and libs like you declare me racist or subhuman while you defend those that are vile, perverted and far more likely to kill, pervert and/or rape our kids than others.

Good God man, havent you' even a damn clue at all! '

I MAKE NO DEMANDS THAT ANY OF THEM BOW TO ME BUT THEY ON THE OTHER HAND DO MAKE SUCH DEMANDS OF ME!
THATS A DANGEROUS THING TO DO--TO ME..

1.I bow to no man,2.no government, 3. no other entity that tries to use unlawful, unconstitutional force upon me!!
Here is a friendly hint, since I see redeeming qualities in you and bear you no malice --

Those three are the qualities that make an honorable man..---TYR

[Noir]

You are clueless, its not about skin color.

Well it appears it is about skin colour for the people attending this group, and if the end result is some of the people in this group end up treating fellow humans a little better, then all the better for them.

[Drummond]

Well it appears it is about skin colour for the people attending this group, and if the end result is some of the people in this group end up treating fellow humans a little better, then all the better for them.

As befits your Leftie 'persuasion', you're only seeing what you choose, or prefer, to see.

Tyr talks excellent sense. You'd do well to heed what he has to say.

[fj1200]

“The first step is that you have to acknowledge that you have a problem,”

Sadly, that's quite a large barrier.

[Abbey Marie]

Well it appears it is about skin colour for the people attending this group, and if the end result is some of the people in this group end up treating fellow humans a little better, then all the better for them.


If these folks attend a regular Bible study, and really live according to what they learn there about Jesus' teachings, they should be fine.

Unfortunately, many of our mainline denoms have gone astray in their attempts to boost membership, and people sense it.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Well it appears it is about skin colour for the people attending this group, and if the end result is some of the people in this group end up treating fellow humans a little better, then all the better for them.


if the end result is some of the people in this group end up treating fellow humans a little better, then all the better for them.

^^^ I thanked this part --- as its true.
IT IS ALWAYS BETTER IF WE TREAT EACH OTHER WITH MORE RESPECT, DIGNITY AND TRUTH.
And in replying such you showed redeeming qualities despite the blind path that you too often follow IMHO.-Tyr

[Trigg]

I have a couple of problems with this.

1. It says everyone is racist, which I disagree with. Prejudice is not racism.

2. In going along with AA it states that you "can't help" but be racist.

3. There's a growing theme in this country that tries to state that only white people can be racist and this seems to be echoing that sentiment.

[Kathianne]

I don't get the idea of 12 step for racism. 12 steps are for addiction, many of which have a physical component.

Racists develop either through lessons taught by others, such as parents or peers or as a reaction to a specific experience that they generalize onto a race.

[Gunny]

If these folks attend a regular Bible study, and really live according to what they learn there about Jesus' teachings, they should be fine.

Unfortunately, many of our mainline denoms have gone astray in their attempts to boost membership, and people sense it.

There's too much business in hate groups for the people profiting to let go without a fight. This iis just another example of them perpetuating the hate. The radical Islamics are back on the back burner. They'll have to come up with something to get back out front.

[Gunny]

I don't get the idea of 12 step for racism. 12 steps are for addiction, many of which have a physical component.

Racists develop either through lessons taught by others, such as parents or peers or as a reaction to a specific experience that they generalize onto a race.

Addiction is as much psychological as physical. You don't have the latter without the former.

Hate is a powerful addiction for some.

[Elessar]

‘Racists Anonymous’ groups at churches: The first step is admitting you have a problem
Coming soon to a community near you.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/08/31/some-churches-are-forming-racists-anonymous-groups-for-those-brave-enough-to-join/#comments

Are Black Churches involved? Black Lives Matters activists involved?
KKK involved?

That whole notion is horseshit. People just have to grow up, let go,
and respect others.

This is another LIEberal driven notion.

[Elessar]

Yeah if the 'PC imperative' in question is 'we should not be prejudice towards someone based on their skin colour' then I regard that as a positive thing.

Do you not regard that as a positive thing?

You always speak in circles because as a Gay, Atheist, and home defense coward, you want
to preach to others how to behave.

You mentioned skin color, but nothing was in the OP of it.

[Elessar]

You are clueless, its not about skin color. Its more about cultural conflict, human interaction that comes from who people want to identify with and -

Both, you and your kind refuse to even consider.

Good God man, havent you' even a damn clue at all! '

Those three are the qualities that make an honorable man..---TYR

Snipped for brevity.

Clueless is right. Never gets from his hiding place but snipes all the time.

Time to grow up, Noir.....get from behind mommy's skirt and throw rocks back
at those that pick on you. P****!

[Elessar]

I have a couple of problems with this.

1. It says everyone is racist, which I disagree with. Prejudice is not racism.

2. In going along with AA it states that you "can't help" but be racist.

3. There's a growing theme in this country that tries to state that only white people can be racist and this seems to be echoing that sentiment.

All of that is bullshit,except #1.

I can be Bigoted all I want, yet not racist. Noir sees no difference.
I hate BLM activists, but do not hate blacks.
I hate KKK activists, but do not hate whites.
I hate Muslim terrorists, but do not hate the religion.
I do not hate Gays, but do not tolerate transgender thinking.
I hate child molestors with a passion.

Noir brush paints it all to suit his childish notions.

[Elessar]

Addiction is as much psychological as physical. You don't have the latter without the former.

Hate is a powerful addiction for some.

Very wise statement, Gunny!

[Perianne]

All of that is bullshit,except #1.

I can be Bigoted all I want, yet not racist. Noir sees no difference.
I hate BLM activists, but do not hate blacks.
I hate KKK activists, but do not hate whites.
I hate Muslim terrorists, but do not hate the religion.
I do not hate Gays, but do not tolerate transgender thinking.
I hate child molestors with a passion.

Noir brush paints it all to suit his childish notions.

In my experiences as a nurse, I have had all the above as patients. I treat them all with respect and caring as is required of a nurse, but I don't have to appreciate their lifestyle. "Love the person, hate the lifestyle" is what I endeavor to practice.

[Elessar]

In my experiences as a nurse, I have had all the above as patients. I treat them all with respect and caring as is required of a nurse, but I don't have to appreciate their lifestyle. "Love the person, hate the lifestyle" is what I endeavor to practice.

You are a good person....never let that go.

[Kathianne]

Addiction is as much psychological as physical. You don't have the latter without the former.

Hate is a powerful addiction for some.

I don't think the 12 step program would help in this case.

By the its very nature, racism is based in hate. Stop the hate for whatever reason, racism will stop being a factor for the person. If one wants to stop prejudging people, one will do just that. Either they learned that the lessons taught were wrong or some event happened that made the person decide this wasn't a real smart way to go through life.

[Gunny]

I don't think the 12 step program would help in this case.

By the its very nature, racism is based in hate. Stop the hate for whatever reason, racism will stop being a factor for the person. If one wants to stop prejudging people, one will do just that. Either they learned that the lessons taught were wrong or some event happened that made the person decide this wasn't a real smart way to go through life.

The OP uses AA in its title. AA is a 12-step program. Step one is admitting you have a problem/addiction/whatever. Hate is as much an addiction as any other.

It would work for some and not for others. There's no one-size-fits all for everyone. I'm using AA as an example. Most of these people won't even admit there's a problem with their own behavior. It's everyone else's fault. That IS an addict. A rose by any other name is STILL a rose.

As it pertains to this gist of this thread, I don't have a problem with being white, nor some sissy-ass leftwingnut progressive. THEY are the ones full of hate and have the problem.

[Kathianne]

The OP uses AA in its title. AA is a 12-step program. Step one is admitting you have a problem/addiction/whatever. Hate is as much an addiction as any other.

It would work for some and not for others. There's no one-size-fits all for everyone. I'm using AA as an example. Most of these people won't even admit there's a problem with their own behavior. It's everyone else's fault. That IS an addict. A rose by any other name is STILL a rose.

As it pertains to this gist of this thread, I don't have a problem with being white, nor some sissy-ass leftwingnut progressive. THEY are the ones full of hate and have the problem.


Still disagree, just to say, 'racism' is not something I want to be part of anymore,' the hate is gone. It was always just part of the person, what they had come to accept as a truism. Once one rejects that, it's gone. Doesn't mean one is unaware of color, but the instant negatives of hate will be. Won't get rid of 'fear' if that's part of the problem, but one doesn't choose to want to commit assault on the other person, without provocation.

There's a hell of a lot of difference between happy in your own skin, pun intended, and thinking you're superior because of a thing beyond your control. When you feel that your rights are diminished just because someone else can move into your neighborhood, you're the one with a problem. Jerky neighbors happen, because they are jerks, not because of their skin color.

One doesn't have a compulsion to being racist, by the very nature of saying it's wrong-it's over.

Anger and hate may be part and parcel of being racist, I suppose one could consider those areas that some people feel compelled to act upon, but they are separate from racism. That's based upon a belief system, that one holds or doesn't.

[Gunny]

Still disagree, just to say, 'racism' is not something I want to be part of anymore,' the hate is gone. It was always just part of the person, what they had come to accept as a truism. Once one rejects that, it's gone. Doesn't mean one is unaware of color, but the instant negatives of hate will be. Won't get rid of 'fear' if that's part of the problem, but one doesn't choose to want to commit assault on the other person, without provocation.

There's a hell of a lot of difference between happy in your own skin, pun intended, and thinking you're superior because of a thing beyond your control. When you feel that your rights are diminished just because someone else can move into your neighborhood, you're the one with a problem. Jerky neighbors happen, because they are jerks, not because of their skin color.

One doesn't have a compulsion to being racist, by the very nature of saying it's wrong-it's over.

Anger and hate may be part and parcel of being racist, I suppose one could consider those areas that some people feel compelled to act upon, but they are separate from racism. That's based upon a belief system, that one holds or doesn't.

Disagree all you want. If you are not an addict, then you don't know what you're talking about. Racism is hatred. If you are addicted to hatred, you're an addict as much as an alcoholic or drug addict.

I'll go back to Step 1. You have to admit there is problem before you can fix it. If you can't get past that, then you'll never fix it.

The point to OP is selectively using to lay on some white guilt. There's no recovery there. There are no politics in AA. Everyone is equal. Doesn't matter what or who the hell you are or what your skin color is.

You're out of your league here, Kath. I've run the gauntlet of programs.

[DLT]

‘Racists Anonymous’ groups at churches: The first step is admitting you have a problem





Coming soon to a community near you.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/08/31/some-churches-are-forming-racists-anonymous-groups-for-those-brave-enough-to-join/#comments

Great idea. Could replace the very expensive therapy that most of us can't afford to pay for in the Obamanation.

My free therapy might go something like this....

"Hi, I'm ".....", and I am FTFU with being labeled a racist by other racists who have had everything handed to them by society, while I and ALL of my ancestors, Cherokee/Irish, have had to work our @sses off just to survive."

[fj1200]

Are Black Churches involved? Black Lives Matters activists involved?
KKK involved?

That whole notion is horseshit. People just have to grow up, let go,
and respect others.

This is another LIEberal driven notion.

It's a pretty well documented fact that there are racists. :dunno:

[Kathianne]

Disagree all you want. If you are not an addict, then you don't know what you're talking about. Racism is hatred. If you are addicted to hatred, you're an addict as much as an alcoholic or drug addict.

I'll go back to Step 1. You have to admit there is problem before you can fix it. If you can't get past that, then you'll never fix it.

The point to OP is selectively using to lay on some white guilt. There's no recovery there. There are no politics in AA. Everyone is equal. Doesn't matter what or who the hell you are or what your skin color is.

You're out of your league here, Kath. I've run the gauntlet of programs.

Of course you have. Is there anything you don't have more experience than anyone else that hasn't the experience of having been in the military?

Addiction in the way you're using it in this case is just an excuse for bad behavior of the ignorant.

[Gunny]

Of course you have. Is there anything you don't have more experience than anyone else that hasn't the experience of having been in the military?

Addiction in the way you're using it in this case is just an excuse for bad behavior of the ignorant.

Do you have to ALWAYS make things personal when someone disagrees with you? Addiction in the way I am using it is addiction. It's about fixing a problem, not making excuses. I've had THIS argument more than twice.

If you haven't been/are not an addict, don't presume to preach to me. It's ALWAYS those that never had the problem that have all the answers.

[Kathianne]

Do you have to ALWAYS make things personal when someone disagrees with you? Addiction in the way I am using it is addiction. It's about fixing a problem, not making excuses. I've had THIS argument more than twice.

If you haven't been/are not an addict, don't presume to preach to me. It's ALWAYS those that never had the problem that have all the answers.

You are the one that ALWAYS makes it personal, dismissing others, THEN making it all about why you are an authority. Problem is, that other than certain areas, like the rest of us, you too have no authority over other subjects.

You don't disagree, you claim to be an authority, which you are not. You haven't any clue to what anyone else has personally gone through.

Now if you want to claim to be a racist, who decided not to be a racist, perhaps then you could share your story.

If instead you want to say that you have had a problem with being addicted to hatred and that led your wanting to act against groups? Tell that story.

Or if instead you have/had an anger problem that led you to unload on others? Ok, tell that story.

12 steps help one deal with addictions to something that is destroying the person and the ones they care about: alcohol, gambling, drugs, sexual promiscuity, etc.

Many addictions are symptoms of problems not dealt with and 12 step programs can help reveal those to the person. Anger being one, feelings of inadequacy being another, depression being another. The 12 steps won't cure or help one cope with the underlying, though the person may then begin some treatment that will.

[Gunny]

You are the one that ALWAYS makes it personal, dismissing others, THEN making it all about why you are an authority. Problem is, that other than certain areas, like the rest of us, you too have no authority over other subjects.

You don't disagree, you claim to be an authority, which you are not. You haven't any clue to what anyone else has personally gone through.

Now if you want to claim to be a racist, who decided not to be a racist, perhaps then you could share your story.

If instead you want to say that you have had a problem with being addicted to hatred and that led your wanting to act against groups? Tell that story.

Or if instead you have/had an anger problem that led you to unload on others? Ok, tell that story.

12 steps help one deal with addictions to something that is destroying the person and the ones they care about: alcohol, gambling, drugs, sexual promiscuity, etc.

Many addictions are symptoms of problems not dealt with and 12 step programs can help reveal those to the person. Anger being one, feelings of inadequacy being another, depression being another. The 12 steps won't cure or help one cope with the underlying, though the person may then begin some treatment that will.

I made nothing personal. You came off with snide remarks. I merely responded in kind.

I'm an addict. If you think that's bragging, try again. I lost a lot out of it. However, once I did get help, I read the book, analyzed it and I understand what a 12 step program is. I used it as a starter kit, but it's not my cup of tea. I hate groups. Like I said it works for some, and not for others.

You can apply the basic principles of a 12 step program to almost anything. And ANYTHING you do compulsively,on a daily basis can be construed as addiction.

I will also repeat that my original comment was a totally sarcastic remark concerning using the term AA. Had nothing to do with you.

[Kathianne]

I made nothing personal. You came off with snide remarks. I merely responded in kind.

I'm an addict. If you think that's bragging, try again. I lost a lot out of it. However, once I did get help, I read the book, analyzed it and I understand what a 12 step program is. I used it as a starter kit, but it's not my cup of tea. I hate groups. Like I said it works for some, and not for others.

You can apply the basic principles of a 12 step program to almost anything. And ANYTHING you do compulsively,on a daily basis can be construed as addiction.

I will also repeat that my original comment was a totally sarcastic remark concerning using the term AA. Had nothing to do with you.

I did NOT use the word bragging. I said that you near always claim to be an authority on near every topic brought up. You accuse others of being argumentative just for the sake of being so, but do not seem to see this in yourself. It seems that most of your presumed authority comes from either being raised by a military father/grandfather, serving as a Marine, being an electrician, running a messageboard, or having 'issues.' Somehow this encompasses all. :dunno:

[Gunny]

I did NOT use the word bragging. I said that you near always claim to be an authority on near every topic brought up. You accuse others of being argumentative just for the sake of being so, but do not seem to see this in yourself. It seems that most of your presumed authority comes from either being raised by a military father/grandfather, serving as a Marine, being an electrician, running a messageboard, or having 'issues.' Somehow this encompasses all. :dunno:

Nope. I don't talk up unless I know what I'm talking about. Seems pretty simple, doesn't it?

Maybe you should get out more. At least when I as you call it "claim to be an authority", it's because I have experience? Good or bad.

And what exactly do you think I'm supposed to relate to? Being a school teacher from Chicago? I don't relate to people that live their lives in one place and do the same things and know the same people. Not part of my life.

The fact is, you left out a LOT of things I've done. Point is though,, and I will reiterate for the umpteenth time, my origianla comment was a sarcastic comment to the article in the OP. YOU chose to tel me about what a 12 step program can and cannot do in your response. Then when you didn't like my response YOU turned this into a personal nutroll.

[SassyLady]

It's a pretty well documented fact that there are racists. :dunno:

Yes it is well documented by those who like to define racism from their world view. And I ask why? What makes a person racist? Is a person racist just because they don't want to incorporate another's viewpoint, culture, religion, morals, etc. To me, racism isn't just about skin color. Just because I don't want to adapt to another person's norms doesn't make me a racist ... or that I believe I'm superior. Just means I'm comfortable with who I am.

Why can't I just dislike someone for who they are and what they do without being labeled a racist? Because someone, somewhere decided that groupthink is best and that we all assimilate the PC rules or be labeled.

:pillowfight:

[Kathianne]

Yes it is well documented by those who like to define racism from their world view. And I ask why? What makes a person racist? Is a person racist just because they don't want to incorporate another's viewpoint, culture, religion, morals, etc. To me, racism isn't just about skin color. Just because I don't want to adapt to another person's norms doesn't make me a racist ... or that I believe I'm superior. Just means I'm comfortable with who I am.

Why can't I just dislike someone for who they are and what they do without being labeled a racist? Because someone, somewhere decided that groupthink is best and that we all assimilate the PC rules or be labeled.

:pillowfight:

I'm pretty sure if you dislike someone for who they are or what they do, you're not being racist, but you've judged a person on knowledge.

Without common language, we cannot communicate-there must be some definition. Racism is based on skin color or perceived skin color/ethnic groups.

[fj1200]

Yes it is well documented by those who like to define racism from their world view. And I ask why? What makes a person racist? Is a person racist just because they don't want to incorporate another's viewpoint, culture, religion, morals, etc. To me, racism isn't just about skin color. Just because I don't want to adapt to another person's norms doesn't make me a racist ... or that I believe I'm superior. Just means I'm comfortable with who I am.

Why can't I just dislike someone for who they are and what they do without being labeled a racist? Because someone, somewhere decided that groupthink is best and that we all assimilate the PC rules or be labeled.

:pillowfight:

You're getting ahead of me. Of course there are people who like to claim things are racist when they in fact have nothing to do with racism but as I stated there is actual racism* and it's not just a "LIEberal" notion. To claim that there isn't racism is simply ignorant. And you have my permission to dislike anyone you want. ;)

*Please see actual definition of racism. :)

[Gunny]

You're getting ahead of me. Of course there are people who like to claim things are racist when they in fact have nothing to do with racism but as I stated there is actual racism* and it's not just a "LIEberal" notion. To claim that there isn't racism is simply ignorant. And you have my permission to dislike anyone you want. ;)

*Please see actual definition of racism. :)

Quite correct. I knew a fellow jarhead once that actually believed blacks were intellectually inferior because their skin was black. I was like, you can't be serious. He was dead serious. THAT is racism.

It's like any other misused word, so where do you draw the line? Say things about Jews is considered anti-semitic (fancy word for racist) when Judaism is a religion, not a race. You disagree with me because I'm black therefore you are a racist. No, I disagree with your dumb ass beliefs. I don't care what color tan you're sporting.

[Perianne]

Quite correct. I knew a fellow jarhead once that actually believed blacks were intellectually inferior because their skin was black. I was like, you can't be serious. He was dead serious. THAT is racism.


A heart attack is medically called myocardial infarction (stoppage of blood flow to the myocardium, or heart muscle). There is a protein released by the heart when heart muscle damage occurs.

It is called troponin. Not all releases of tropinin indicate a heart attack. But if you are looking for something to help confirm a heart attack, troponin is an excellent marker.

We all know that there are many intelligent blacks. But if your "fellow jarhead" was looking for intellectual inferiority, maybe he considered black skin as a statistically-appropriate marker? Much as Jesse Jackson considered black skin a marker of danger when walking down a dark sidewalk?

It doesn't make it right, but maybe that is what he meant.

[SassyLady]

You're getting ahead of me. Of course there are people who like to claim things are racist when they in fact have nothing to do with racism but as I stated there is actual racism* and it's not just a "LIEberal" notion. To claim that there isn't racism is simply ignorant. And you have my permission to dislike anyone you want. ;)

*Please see actual definition of racism. :)

I'm not claiming racism doesn't exist .... it is as old as mankind. Tribes have hated each other since Adam and Eve had children.

I take exception to those who label someone as racist just because they don't agree with their viewpoint. That is what is simply ignorant.

I ask you this ... has racism declined or increased since desegregation was implemented?

[aboutime]

Though I doubt I will live long enough to see in person. Does anyone here believe, as I do, that there needs to be a day when Americans.....no longer look at each other as anything other than Americans? I know, it's pie in the sky thinking, and will probably take another 100 years for it to happen. But BOY, OH BOY.....If only we could all wake up one day UNABLE to discriminate on the basis of skin color, and simply Welcome each other as FELLOW AMERICANS?

[fj1200]

I'm not claiming racism doesn't exist .... it is as old as mankind. Tribes have hated each other since Adam and Eve had children.

I take exception to those who label someone as racist just because they don't agree with their viewpoint. That is what is simply ignorant.

I ask you this ... has racism declined or increased since desegregation was implemented?

What are we even discussing then? You seem to be taking exception to something I haven't even posted.

Racism has declined since desegregation but not because of any government action IMO.

[Abbey Marie]

What are we even discussing then? You seem to be taking exception to something I haven't even posted.

Racism has declined since desegregation but not because of any government action IMO.


Actually, I'd say it's back on the upswing lately. Albeit from a different source.

[fj1200]

Actually, I'd say it's back on the upswing lately. Albeit from a different source.

Sadly it also seems to be from exactly the same source which begs the question of is it on the upswing or did it never decline in the first place?

[fj1200]

I'm not claiming racism doesn't exist .... it is as old as mankind. Tribes have hated each other since Adam and Eve had children.

I take exception to those who label someone as racist just because they don't agree with their viewpoint. That is what is simply ignorant.

I ask you this ... has racism declined or increased since desegregation was implemented?

Sadly that seems to happen even here. :(

[Perianne]

Sadly it also seems to be from exactly the same source which begs the question of is it on the upswing or did it never decline in the first place?

Perhaps it is coming from the increased presence of Chinese? I never knew the Chinese were so racist!


Tourists are being told to avoid areas of London 'populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people' in a Chinese airline's in-flight magazine.

Wings of China, the in-flight magazine for Air China, made the 'racist' comment in a travel article on the UK capital.

The article, printed in both English and Chinese, said: 'London is generally a safe place to travel, however precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people.'



http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9337&stc=1



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3777759/London-generally-safe-careful-areas-populated-Indians-Pakistanis-black-people-Chinese-airline-condemned-flight-magazine-s-racist-advice.html#ixzz4JaudRs00

[fj1200]

Perhaps it is coming from the increased presence of Chinese? I never knew the Chinese were so racist!

I think the Chinese influence on racism in foreign countries is negligible.

[Abbey Marie]

Sadly it also seems to be from exactly the same source which begs the question of is it on the upswing or did it never decline in the first place?

Are you commenting on the country or specifically this board? And which source?

[SassyLady]

What are we even discussing then? You seem to be taking exception to something I haven't even posted.

Racism has declined since desegregation but not because of any government action IMO.

I disagree that racism has declined. I think it is on the increase due to immigrants and refugees. It's not just a difference in color. It's culture, religion, ethnic loyalty, income levels ...... you name it. With the massive amount of new people coming here it is easier to gravitate to one's own social norms than to assimilate. When we had a controlled immigration system I believe people really wanted to become Americans. Now the majority of newcomers just want the freedom and not to become citizens. They have, in effect, recreated their communities on American soil.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I disagree that racism has declined. I think it is on the increase due to immigrants and refugees. It's not just a difference in color. It's culture, religion, ethnic loyalty, income levels ...... you name it. With the massive amount of new people coming here it is easier to gravitate to one's own social norms than to assimilate. When we had a controlled immigration system I believe people really wanted to become Americans. Now the majority of newcomers just want the freedom and not to become citizens. They have, in effect, recreated their communities on American soil.


When we had a controlled immigration system I believe people really wanted to become Americans. Now the majority of newcomers just want the freedom and not to become citizens. They have, in effect, recreated their communities on American soil.

That is it in a nutshell. Our immigration old-well tried and proven immigration system was destroyed to make way for such a destructive immigration policy.
And that was done by the dem/socialist party......
All based upon party agenda--now we see fruits of it -especially with the cancer named Islam-which never assimilates to the ways and laws of its host nation!--Tyr

[sundaydriver]

There will always be racism due to people that no one look up to will always need someone to look down on.

[fj1200]

I disagree that racism has declined. I think it is on the increase due to immigrants and refugees. It's not just a difference in color. It's culture, religion, ethnic loyalty, income levels ...... you name it. With the massive amount of new people coming here it is easier to gravitate to one's own social norms than to assimilate. When we had a controlled immigration system I believe people really wanted to become Americans. Now the majority of newcomers just want the freedom and not to become citizens. They have, in effect, recreated their communities on American soil.

There is no doubt that racism is lower now than 50 years ago. I won't really disagree though that racism has been increasing of late and it's primarily due to ignorance IMO.

[fj1200]

Are you commenting on the country or specifically this board? And which source?

You don't really need me to answer that do you?

[Abbey Marie]

You don't really need me to answer that do you?

To quote old Broadway, I do! I do!

[fj1200]

To quote old Broadway, I do! I do!

Well then...


Are you commenting on the country or specifically this board? And which source?

As far as this board mirrors the country... And a similar source as to 50 years ago.

[SassyLady]

There is no doubt that racism is lower now than 50 years ago. I won't really disagree though that racism has been increasing of late and it's primarily due to ignorance IMO.

I have a ton of doubt. Why do you think it's less than 50 years ago? 50 years ago it was predominantly a black/white issue. Today, especially with the population explosion of immigrants, it's all races against each other. All races, including those whites suffering white shame, against whites; blacks against everyone; Hispanics against everyone; Asians against everyone .... and that doesn't include religion and country of origin racism.

So, how can you say it's less? Just because white supremacy has taken a back seat to political correctness? No ..... I believe more people hate each other now than ever.

[Abbey Marie]

I don't know if there's more, less or no real difference. I do know that thanks to a liberal stranglehold on education, the media, and many of the courts, many conservative folks are feeling frustrated. And with social media, it is more out in the open than ever before in our lifetime. I would also maintain that as a country, our move to Godlessness has people feeling more comfortable with their hatred.

[fj1200]

I have a ton of doubt. Why do you think it's less than 50 years ago? 50 years ago it was predominantly a black/white issue. Today, especially with the population explosion of immigrants, it's all races against each other. All races, including those whites suffering white shame, against whites; blacks against everyone; Hispanics against everyone; Asians against everyone .... and that doesn't include religion and country of origin racism.

So, how can you say it's less? Just because white supremacy has taken a back seat to political correctness? No ..... I believe more people hate each other now than ever.

First, I do not have that pessimistic view that you do. Second, there should be a reality check on the actual definition of racism. If there are less white supremacists then there is by definition less racism. The racial animosities that existed back then simply do not exist in the vast reaches of society. I can point to some old-school racism but thankfully it's a small minority (I still believe even though I'm disturbed by what I do see).

[fj1200]

I don't know if there's more, less or no real difference. I do know that thanks to a liberal stranglehold on education, the media, and many of the courts, many conservative folks are feeling frustrated. And with social media, it is more out in the open than ever before in our lifetime. I would also maintain that as a country, our move to Godlessness has people feeling more comfortable with their hatred.

How many "Godly" people are comfortable espousing their hatred?

[Abbey Marie]

How many "Godly" people are comfortable espousing their hatred?

Aye, there's the rub. If we are truly Godly, we would be uncomfortable.

[Elessar]

There will always be racism due to people that no one look up to will always need someone to look down on.

That is largely because the problem makers, BLM, Illegal Immigrants, Violent Muslims, will not stand eye-to-eye
unless it is a riot, fight, or attack that they started!

[aboutime]

How many "Godly" people are comfortable espousing their hatred?


I learned a long time ago....in Church, I think. NOT TO HATE others, no matter what, and to LOVE MY ENEMIES.
I also learned, over almost SEVEN DECADES now...that TO HATE, makes the hater, become just like the hated.

Besides. Who are you to question WHO the people are who are Godly?

Judging others for your interpretation of Godly, is just dumb. Since nothing you bring here means anything anyway.

[fj1200]

Aye, there's the rub. If we are truly Godly, we would be uncomfortable.

No disagreement there. That doesn't keep them from giving Christians a bad name.

[Abbey Marie]

No disagreement there. That doesn't keep them from giving Christians a bad name.

With our fundamental tenet being love, I can't disagree.

[SassyLady]

First, I do not have that pessimistic view that you do. Second, there should be a reality check on the actual definition of racism. If there are less white supremacists then there is by definition less racism. The racial animosities that existed back then simply do not exist in the vast reaches of society. I can point to some old-school racism but thankfully it's a small minority (I still believe even though I'm disturbed by what I do see).

This statement is so wrong on so many different facets. The assumption is that racism is only exhibited by white supremacists.

[Kathianne]

This statement is so wrong on so many different facets. The assumption is that racism is only exhibited by white supremacists.

I think you're misinterpreting. Substitute the words 'black racism' and you'll find the same being true. Less racism=less racism.

[Elessar]

I think you're misinterpreting. Substitute the words 'black racism' and you'll find the same being true. Less racism=less racism.

Yeah....only Whites are Racists. Not the Black rioters at all. Not the BLM cop killers at all.
Not Al Sharpton at all.

Bullshit premise, but not yours, Kath. Igonrant ones, yes! They are the racists

[aboutime]

RACISTS....actual RACISTS who always insist white people are RACISTS, have techniques they have learned from the Liberal Liars that BEING THE LOUDEST, to prevent honest discussions about racism is the ONLY TOOL that effectively ENDS, DENIES, and FINISHES any, or all possible attempts to get rid of Discrimination, Bigotry, and Racism.

In other words. RACIST BLACK PEOPLE who are part of BLM...must always maintain their ignorance, power, and racist idea's by PREVENTING anyone...who isn't Black...from speaking....AT ALL.

[GravyBoat]

Wanting to be among ones own kind isn't racist, it's not racial bigotry, it's lovingkindess, it's natural.

Thinking that "we're all the same" or that "refugees" should be allowed a chance to out breed and out compete, this isn't Christian, it's Darwinism, it's idiocy.

[fj1200]

This statement is so wrong on so many different facets. The assumption is that racism is only exhibited by white supremacists.

That was not my assumption. The average white and the average black coexist on a completely different level than they did 50 years ago.


I think you're misinterpreting. Substitute the words 'black racism' and you'll find the same being true. Less racism=less racism.

True, it was merely an example as white supremacy was the most prevalent in years past.


Yeah....only Whites are Racists. Not the Black rioters at all. Not the BLM cop killers at all.
Not Al Sharpton at all.

Bullshit premise, but not yours, Kath. Igonrant ones, yes! They are the racists

I've not seen any evidence that the black rioters or BLM or Sharpton believe in the superiority of the black race; if you can show evidence I'll certainly concede the point. However to use your premise that they are racists opens up so many whites to your same standard; a standard that I reject.

So whose premise was faulty?

[aboutime]

Wanting to be among ones own kind isn't racist, it's not racial bigotry, it's lovingkindess, it's natural.

Thinking that "we're all the same" or that "refugees" should be allowed a chance to out breed and out compete, this isn't Christian, it's Darwinism, it's idiocy.


BS Gravy. BS. While I was serving my 30 years in the navy...with Black men from all over the country, of all religious backgrounds, of whom I happily worked with, spent time with, and dedicated ourselves to one-another...AS OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER (If you will).

In each, and every command where I served. WE WERE ALL CREWMEMBERS. Not divided by color, or any other features of the human nature.
Of course, when they got together. They shared their lives with familiar fellow sailors, seemingly INTENTIONALLY, they always divided themselves from the rest of the crew because THEY INTENTIONALLY DID SO, feeling they were the Minority among the crew, when everyone else (speaking for myself here) attempted to remind them...WE were a team (crew) that didn't want, or need to discriminate...as THEY SEEMED TO WANT TO DO.
And, I can recall, after all these years. Being told to shut up, mind my own business, stay out of their face if I didn't like it. Which told me THEY WANTED TO DISCRIMINATE themselves from the rest of the crew.
NOT I, nor any other member of any crew demanded, or told them they had to be separate from us WHITE GUYS, CRACKERS, or whatever other names they used. IT WAS THEIR CHOICE to divide, and as far as I know today. THEY ARE STILL DOING IT....then blaming White Discrimination for their PERPETUAL VICTIMIZATION.....as the FORMER SLAVES from a time in our History none of us had anything to do with today.
SO....BS, BS, BS.
The divides are created by those who WANT, and NEED to keep racism ALIVE.