Proper display of flags?

[crin63]

We are building an airship in our church auditorium. I attached an artist concept of what we're doing and where we're at on the current part of the build. I want to put a Christian flag and an American flag on it. I want to follow proper flag etiquette. Does the location matter? Does angle of the flags matter? Any other considerations?

Thanks for the help.

[Gunny]

We are building an airship in our church auditorium. I attached an artist concept of what we're doing and where we're at on the current part of the build. I want to put a Christian flag and an American flag on it. I want to follow proper flag etiquette. Does the location matter? Does angle of the flags matter? Any other considerations?

Thanks for the help.

By regulation, the American flag goes on top. A Christian flag has no official standing. Separation of church and state.

Cynical mode on: Now if it was a mexican flag, you could put it above the US flag because all the PC types would be afraid to say a word. Mode off.

American flag always is on top. If you care to take the time, there is a manual on proper display I'm sure you can find on google.

[crin63]

By regulation, the American flag goes on top. A Christian flag has no official standing. Separation of church and state.

Cynical mode on: Now if it was a mexican flag, you could put it above the US flag because all the PC types would be afraid to say a word. Mode off.

American flag always is on top. If you care to take the time, there is a manual on proper display I'm sure you can find on google.

Thanks Gunny! I looked around some on Google and didn't find anything discernable. I'm not fluent in maritime language.

[Elessar]

Thanks Gunny! I looked around some on Google and didn't find anything discernable. I'm not fluent in maritime language.


Here you go crin63: I'll bold the point you asked.

How To Display the Flag
If the flag is displayed from a staff projected from a window sill, balcony or front of a building, the union of the flag should go to the peak of the staff (unless the flag is to be displayed at half-staff). When the flag is displayed in any manner other than being flown from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out. If displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right; that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window it should be suspended in the same way--that is, with the union to the left of the observer in the street. When displayed over the middle of the street, the Stars and Stripes should be suspended vertically with the union to the north on an east-west street and to the east on a north-south street. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from house to pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out from the building toward the pole union first. When used on a speaker's platform the flag may be displayed flat, above and behind the speaker. If flown from a staff it should be on the speaker's right; all other flags on the platform should be on the speakers left. When it is displayed on the pulpit or chancel in a church, the flag should be flown from a staff placed on the clergyman's right as he faces the congregation. All other flags on the pulpit or chancel should be on the clergyman's left. When flags of states or cities, or pennants of societies, are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When flown from adjacent staffs, the Stars and Stripes should be raised first and lowered last. When used to cover a casket, the flag should be placed so that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground. The casket should be carried foot-first from the hearse to the grave. The flag should not: be used as a costume or athletic uniform or part of one; be used as drapery of any sort whatsoever, never festooned, drawn back or up in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white and red-- always arranged with the blue above, white in the middle, and red below--should be used for such purposes of decoration as covering a speaker's desk or draping the front of a platform.When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.

[crin63]

Here you go @crin63 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=617): I'll bold the point you asked.

How To Display the Flag


If the flag is displayed from a staff projected from a window sill, balcony or front of a building, the union of the flag should go to the peak of the staff (unless the flag is to be displayed at half-staff). When the flag is displayed in any manner other than being flown from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out. If displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right; that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window it should be suspended in the same way--that is, with the union to the left of the observer in the street. When displayed over the middle of the street, the Stars and Stripes should be suspended vertically with the union to the north on an east-west street and to the east on a north-south street. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from house to pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out from the building toward the pole union first. When used on a speaker's platform the flag may be displayed flat, above and behind the speaker. If flown from a staff it should be on the speaker's right; all other flags on the platform should be on the speakers left. When it is displayed on the pulpit or chancel in a church, the flag should be flown from a staff placed on the clergyman's right as he faces the congregation. All other flags on the pulpit or chancel should be on the clergyman's left. When flags of states or cities, or pennants of societies, are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When flown from adjacent staffs, the Stars and Stripes should be raised first and lowered last. When used to cover a casket, the flag should be placed so that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground. The casket should be carried foot-first from the hearse to the grave. The flag should not: be used as a costume or athletic uniform or part of one; be used as drapery of any sort whatsoever, never festooned, drawn back or up in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white and red-- always arranged with the blue above, white in the middle, and red below--should be used for such purposes of decoration as covering a speaker's desk or draping the front of a platform.When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.


Thank you! That's good info.

[Gunny]

Here you go @crin63 (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=617): I'll bold the point you asked.

How To Display the Flag


If the flag is displayed from a staff projected from a window sill, balcony or front of a building, the union of the flag should go to the peak of the staff (unless the flag is to be displayed at half-staff). When the flag is displayed in any manner other than being flown from a staff, it should be displayed flat, whether indoors or out. If displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right; that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window it should be suspended in the same way--that is, with the union to the left of the observer in the street. When displayed over the middle of the street, the Stars and Stripes should be suspended vertically with the union to the north on an east-west street and to the east on a north-south street. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from house to pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out from the building toward the pole union first. When used on a speaker's platform the flag may be displayed flat, above and behind the speaker. If flown from a staff it should be on the speaker's right; all other flags on the platform should be on the speakers left. When it is displayed on the pulpit or chancel in a church, the flag should be flown from a staff placed on the clergyman's right as he faces the congregation. All other flags on the pulpit or chancel should be on the clergyman's left. When flags of states or cities, or pennants of societies, are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When flown from adjacent staffs, the Stars and Stripes should be raised first and lowered last. When used to cover a casket, the flag should be placed so that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground. The casket should be carried foot-first from the hearse to the grave. The flag should not: be used as a costume or athletic uniform or part of one; be used as drapery of any sort whatsoever, never festooned, drawn back or up in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white and red-- always arranged with the blue above, white in the middle, and red below--should be used for such purposes of decoration as covering a speaker's desk or draping the front of a platform.When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.

You just let the colors touch the ground in the Corps. There's NO place you can hide and you can forget that next promotion. And it WILL follow you wherever they try to hide you.

Now you can tell crin the proper way to board a ship. :)

[Elessar]

You just let the colors touch the ground in the Corps. There's NO place you can hide and you can forget that next promotion. And it WILL follow you wherever they try to hide you.

Now you can tell crin the proper way to board a ship. :)

First Salute the Flag prior to going up the brow, then Salute the Quarterdeck / OOD.

[Gunny]

First Salute the Flag prior to going up the brow, then Salute the Quarterdeck / OOD.


That's backwards from the Navy. You salute the officer of the deck and request permission to come aboard. Once permission is granted, you step across the brow, face aft and salute the National ensign.

When leaving, you salute the ensign, then the officer of the deck and request permission to go ashore.

[Elessar]

That's backwards from the Navy. You salute the officer of the deck and request permission to come aboard. Once permission is granted, you step across the brow, face aft and salute the National ensign.

When leaving, you salute the ensign, then the officer of the deck and request permission to go ashore.

You're right....I got it backward!

[aboutime]

You're right....I got it backward!


Hate to be a stick in the mud here, but proper way (from my 30 years) is...When going ABOARD, you salute the ENSIGN first, ask permission to come aboard, then salute the Officer of the deck.

When leaving...you request permission to leave from the OOD, then salute the ENSIGN before going down the brow.

[Gunny]

Hate to be a stick in the mud here, but proper way (from my 30 years) is...When going ABOARD, you salute the ENSIGN first, ask permission to come aboard, then salute the Officer of the deck.

When leaving...you request permission to leave from the OOD, then salute the ENSIGN before going down the brow.

You're not being a stick in the mud. Your comment has had me wracking my brain for 15 minutes though.:laugh:

I honestly can't remember going ashore over the brow. We always flew off or went out the well deck. The only time we boarded ship/went ashore in uniform was when the ship was at the pier in San Diego.

I need some coffee now. You got me all confused. :laugh:

[Elessar]

No wonder I am confused...been 'a few years'...

Yes...salute the flag first. even if an admiral is standing there...
Then the Quarterdeck / OOD, request permission to come on board.:laugh:

[Gunny]

No wonder I am confused...been 'a few years'...

Yes...salute the flag first. even if an admiral is standing there...
Then the Quarterdeck / OOD, request permission to come on board.:laugh:

I don't agree. You request permission to come aboard from the OOD. You do not salute the ensign until you are aboard. That means OOD first, step across the brow, face aft and salute the ensign. You are not aboard until you are granted permission and the OOD is an officer. He gets saluted first when you request permission to board. You are not on board until you cross the brow and you are well out of range of a required salute for colors. It's a tradition more than an actual rule.

I haven't totally lost my mind here. And we go by Navy regs. You salute within x number of feet of all colors and standards not cased. The US flag on a Naval vessel is a standard not cased. What I cannot remember is when they move the colors aft. I don't believe I have ever been on a ship when the colors were not aft.

My memory is going to crap. :laugh:

[Elessar]

From the Navy Advancement manual:

http://navyadvancement.tpub.com/14325/css/Boarding-And-Leaving-A-Naval-Vessel-258.htm

Going on board, the National Ensign First, then the Quarterdeck / OOD. Then any brass in sight.

Going ashore, the reverse.!

It's been a long time, Gunny!

Priority goes to the colors, then the OOD /Quarterdeck.

[Gunny]

From the Navy Advancement manual:

http://navyadvancement.tpub.com/14325/css/Boarding-And-Leaving-A-Naval-Vessel-258.htm

Going on board, the National Ensign First, then the Quarterdeck / OOD. Then any brass in sight.

Going ashore, the reverse.!

It's been a long time, Gunny!

Priority goes to the colors, then the OOD /Quarterdeck.

Interesting. That is not what we are taught. The line in the sand is the brow. You have to be granted permission to come aboard before crossing the brow. When addressing an officer you salute him first. Once across the brow you salute the ensign.

I'm closer to the officer than I am the colors. I am required to salute him/her first by regulation.

You don't just salute every ship you walk by, do you? You salute a United States Naval vessel upon being allowed on board. Otherwise it's just another boat to me.

[aboutime]

You're not being a stick in the mud. Your comment has had me wracking my brain for 15 minutes though.:laugh:

I honestly can't remember going ashore over the brow. We always flew off or went out the well deck. The only time we boarded ship/went ashore in uniform was when the ship was at the pier in San Diego.

I need some coffee now. You got me all confused. :laugh:


No intention of causing any confusion gunny. I stood OOD watches for many years on 4 of the 6 ships I called home....away from home. As for the Marines....when deployed in liberty ports was the only time they went over the brow. And most times...You guys were in civilian clothes, so all you had to do was show your ID, and pause at the brow to look at the ENSIGN :saluting2: (for those who may not understand our military lingo. The ENSIGN:saluting2: is what we called the STARS and STRIPES flying on the fantail.( rear of the ship). Otherwise gunny. THE WELL DECK OF THE GATORS was the Grunt Frunt:poke: Door.

[Elessar]

AT....I always taught our folks to raise the colors while still in the same correct trifold secured
by dental floss. Once it got to the peak of the truck, you jerked the halyard to pop it open.
Did you folks do that as well?:saluting2:

[Gunny]

No intention of causing any confusion gunny. I stood OOD watches for many years on 4 of the 6 ships I called home....away from home. As for the Marines....when deployed in liberty ports was the only time they went over the brow. And most times...You guys were in civilian clothes, so all you had to do was show your ID, and pause at the brow to look at the ENSIGN :saluting2: (for those who may not understand our military lingo. The ENSIGN:saluting2: is what we called the STARS and STRIPES flying on the fantail.( rear of the ship). Otherwise gunny. THE WELL DECK OF THE GATORS was the Grunt Frunt:poke: Door.

Yeah. Hear that. I love drunk squids and jarheads coming back on board when I have to play OOD. They always wanted to fight rather than just flash their IDs. I'm like just show me your ID and go to your rack.

Cinderella liberty. Just go away. I don't want to fight with your young ass. Troopies aren't very bright.

[aboutime]

AT....I always taught our folks to raise the colors while still in the same correct trifold secured
by dental floss. Once it got to the peak of the truck, you jerked the halyard to pop it open.
Did you folks do that as well?:saluting2:


Never did it with the COLORS, but working as a semi-signalman to help the Skivvy Wavers on a couple ships ( I know morse code, for flashing light, semaphore, and many of the flags)....Like PREP, which we did sail-twine to tie them up...just for yanking on the haliyard to break it for FIRST CALL.

We also did it for our CALL SIGN on the yardarm when entering, and leaving port. Loved being outside when not confined to Radio. Great memories, and great times.

[Gunny]

Never did it with the COLORS, but working as a semi-signalman to help the Skivvy Wavers on a couple ships ( I know morse code, for flashing light, semaphore, and many of the flags)....Like PREP, which we did sail-twine to tie them up...just for yanking on the haliyard to break it for FIRST CALL.

We also did it for our CALL SIGN on the yardarm when entering, and leaving port. Loved being outside when not confined to Radio. Great memories, and great times.

Morse code? You're THAT old? Crap. :laugh:

[aboutime]

Morse code? You're THAT old? Crap. :laugh:


Yep!:laugh: And guess what will take the place of the INTERNET, Cell-phones, and TV when the GRID is attacked for months, or years? Morse Code can be tapped out using a Spoon on your kitchen table to spell words, code groups, numbers, and even SECRET INFORMATION if needed.

I can still copy it via radio, send it via key, flashing light, and even SPOONS. And, if that doesn't work. I can still use SEMAPHORE to talk with my hands if I want. So...:clap::laugh: I may be older than dirt to some. But I'll always be ahead of everybody else...when they are crying about the POWER being off.:saluting2:

[Gunny]

Yep!:laugh: And guess what will take the place of the INTERNET, Cell-phones, and TV when the GRID is attacked for months, or years? Morse Code can be tapped out using a Spoon on your kitchen table to spell words, code groups, numbers, and even SECRET INFORMATION if needed.

I can still copy it via radio, send it via key, flashing light, and even SPOONS. And, if that doesn't work. I can still use SEMAPHORE to talk with my hands if I want. So...:clap::laugh: I may be older than dirt to some. But I'll always be ahead of everybody else...when they are crying about the POWER being off.:saluting2:

You ain't got a whole bunch of years on me, but I don't know morse code. I can operate a PRC 25 though.

And I totally agree about the grid. You shut down our grid and this nation is screwed. These people wouldn't know how to get off the block.

[aboutime]

You ain't got a whole bunch of years on me, but I don't know morse code. I can operate a PRC 25 though.

And I totally agree about the grid. You shut down our grid and this nation is screwed. These people wouldn't know how to get off the block.


Gunny. You should know....if the GRID goes down....not even a PRC( Prick) 25 will work if the batteries are useless. As for my years. Next year I reach the SEVEN OH mark in Feb.

[Elessar]

Yep!:laugh: Morse Code can be tapped out using a Spoon on your kitchen table to spell words, code groups, numbers, and even SECRET INFORMATION if needed.
I can still copy it via radio, send it via key, flashing light, and even SPOONS. And, if that doesn't work. I can still use SEMAPHORE to talk with my hands if I want. So...:clap::laugh:

Transmitted Morse went away in the CG and GMDSS in about 2005, if I recall correctly. So did HF auto alarms.
But we still could detect some and us older Controllers knew what they both were, whereas the younger radio
folk had no idea what they were.

[Gunny]

Gunny. You should know....if the GRID goes down....not even a PRC( Prick) 25 will work if the batteries are useless. As for my years. Next year I reach the SEVEN OH mark in Feb.

LMAO. And you KNOW most of those batteries are useless. :laugh: We'd have to hump 6-8 of them to find one that worked.

But people need to think. If they attack our grid, which is easy to do, most of these kids are going to be lost in the sauce. I like my internet and cell, but I lived so long without them, I'll get by. These young un's wouldn't know what to do. Internet when I was a kid was tinfoil on the rabbit ears of the b&w. :laugh:

On a serious note, people take a lot for granted and rely on too much technology. They don't know how to survive.

[Gunny]

Transmitted Morse went away in the CG and GMDSS in about 2005, if I recall correctly. So did HF auto alarms.
But we still could detect some and us older Controllers knew what they both were, whereas the younger radio
folk had no idea what they were.

Funny story. We had no power and were running at half speed on one boiler. I busted out an old Remington and my troopies were like WTF is THAT? I was like learn to type you spoiled ass punks.

You type the message up and take it to the LFOC. UH, what then? The comm guys will handle the shit you moron. We're pulling 12 knots in the Indian Ocean. No showers. And I got these whiny shits for company clerks. Then you lay the bombshell on them. We got 2 weeks at this rate to get to Hawaii. Get used to it sucking.

[Elessar]

Funny story. We had no power and were running at half speed on one boiler. I busted out an old Remington and my troopies were like WTF is THAT? I was like learn to type you spoiled ass punks.

You type the message up and take it to the LFOC. UH, what then? The comm guys will handle the shit you moron. We're pulling 12 knots in the Indian Ocean. No showers. And I got these whiny shits for company clerks. Then you lay the bombshell on them. We got 2 weeks at this rate to get to Hawaii. Get used to it sucking.

On that 210 foot cutter, every time we went south toward Cabo San Lucas it was in the summer.
The evaps on that thing could not make enough fresh water due to the 80+ degree water temps down there,
so we always had to ration it. Only people allowed to shower were the cooks and corpsman. Everyone
else was limited to a basin full! That was just like camping. Used to sleep on the gun mount platform
because the A/C in crew's berthing was worthless.

[Gunny]

On that 210 foot cutter, every time we went south toward Cabo San Lucas it was in the summer.
The evaps on that thing could not make enough fresh water due to the 80+ degree water temps down there,
so we always had to ration it. Only people allowed to shower were the cooks and corpsman. Everyone
else was limited to a basin full! That was just like camping. Used to sleep on the gun mount platform
because the A/C in crew's berthing was worthless.

I slept on the fantail. Was the smoking area so it saved me a trip. Ain't no way you're getting me in berthing with 2000 stinky asses. I was praying for "swim quals". Nobody bothered to point out carriers don't do them. I was like then put me back on the LPA, dammit.

We didn't get our crap fixed until we hit Pearl. That trip totally sucked. Good thing I didn't have keys to the armory.

[aboutime]

Transmitted Morse went away in the CG and GMDSS in about 2005, if I recall correctly. So did HF auto alarms.
But we still could detect some and us older Controllers knew what they both were, whereas the younger radio
folk had no idea what they were.


Elessar. Do you, and gunny remember the MARS operators? I became one back in the 90's while on shore duty at SIMA (Shore Intermediate Maint Activity) as a Teletype Repairman (RM). MARS was used (HF) freqs for sailors, and marines to make phone calls home, while at sea....before the Internet, and something called Email.
Had fun tuning up the transmitters, and receivers to use assigned Frequencies in contacting shore operators who would call the home phone numbers for the sailors, and marines in CONUS. It was tedious finding a freq that would hold long enough for a call, but fun using OVER, every time that allowed the operator to switch his mike.
Kids today..spoiled on email, and instant messaging would go NUTS if they had to wait in line just to say I LOVE YOU...before losing the call.

[Elessar]

Elessar. Do you, and gunny remember the MARS operators? I became one back in the 90's while on shore duty at SIMA (Shore Intermediate Maint Activity) as a Teletype Repairman (RM). MARS was used (HF) freqs for sailors, and marines to make phone calls home, while at sea....before the Internet, and something called Email.
Had fun tuning up the transmitters, and receivers to use assigned Frequencies in contacting shore operators who would call the home phone numbers for the sailors, and marines in CONUS. It was tedious finding a freq that would hold long enough for a call, but fun using OVER, every time that allowed the operator to switch his mike.
Kids today..spoiled on email, and instant messaging would go NUTS if they had to wait in line just to say I LOVE YOU...before losing the call.

I usually snip for brevity, but will not in this example.

I do remember MARS. Dad would call home from 'Nam using that network, knowing the time available
was limited. He called me in college via MARS as well.

MARS is the older ancestor of Satellite Phone Comms of the present, and another that
we used at work in this century.

[Gunny]

Elessar. Do you, and gunny remember the MARS operators? I became one back in the 90's while on shore duty at SIMA (Shore Intermediate Maint Activity) as a Teletype Repairman (RM). MARS was used (HF) freqs for sailors, and marines to make phone calls home, while at sea....before the Internet, and something called Email.
Had fun tuning up the transmitters, and receivers to use assigned Frequencies in contacting shore operators who would call the home phone numbers for the sailors, and marines in CONUS. It was tedious finding a freq that would hold long enough for a call, but fun using OVER, every time that allowed the operator to switch his mike.
Kids today..spoiled on email, and instant messaging would go NUTS if they had to wait in line just to say I LOVE YOU...before losing the call.

I DO remember MARS. However, all I know about it is it's comm. Half of MCAGCC 29 Palms is Communication and Electronic School (C&E). I could operate the Pr*ck if I had to. They make you learn how to as Cpl so you can be an FO. Otherwise I knew nothing about comm. I was on the other half of MCAGCC. :laugh:

But I've stood in that line. I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. These brats wouldn't know what to do. If you were lucky, you'd get a letter 6 weeks after it was written on an UNREP.