Louisiana's 'Blue Lives Matter' Bill Makes Attacking Cops a Hate Crime

[Elessar]

Finally....someone does something that makes sense:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/08/01/blue-lives-matter-bill-makes-attacking-cops-hate-crime-louisiana

[revelarts]

No, it doesn't make sense. ALL "hate crime" laws are BS.

If you kill someone and it's NOT self-defense and it not purely accidental
Then it's either manslaughter or murder
The type of malice someone has is irrelevant.

All sides just want the gov't to punish their imagined political enemies.
left socialist or right fascist just as petty and corrupt.

[revelarts]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-skA-5UGZzCk/UQEvEuEtbMI/AAAAAAAAb9Y/vTxOrPowJ90/s640/When+the+government's+boot+is+on+your+throat+wheth er+it+is+a+left+boot+or+a+right+is+of+no+consequen ce.png
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[Elessar]

No, it doesn't make sense. ALL "hate crime" laws are BS.

If you kill someone and it's NOT self-defense and it not purely accidental
Then it's either manslaughter or murder
The type of malice someone has is irrelevant.

All sides just want the gov't to punish their imagined political enemies.
left socialist or right fascist just as petty and corrupt.

I see. You would rather defend the criminal than the poor bastard that
has to respond? How very 'reverent' your thinking.

Have you ever taken L.E. training? I doubt seriously if you would know
what to do in a life-threatening situation.

[Kathianne]

I see. You would rather defend the criminal than the poor bastard that
has to respond? How very 'reverent' your thinking.

Have you ever taken L.E. training? I doubt seriously if you would know
what to do in a life-threatening situation.

I'm with Rev that there is no reason for the 'hate crime' tag, on ANY crime.

I do think that there may be reasons to have a federal law that targeted murders on police officers can be considered a capital offense, with possibility of death sentence on federal level if state doesn't have.

[revelarts]

I see. You would rather defend the criminal
than the poor bastard that
has to respond? How very 'reverent' your thinking.
Have you ever taken L.E. training? I doubt seriously if you would know
what to do in a life-threatening situation.

No you don't see, you're making up my view to fit a binary POV you have.
the 'If you're not with us your against' mindset.
that's part of the whole problem.

seems you can not fathom that concept that i think it's WRONG to kill or harm people for no reason.
whether they wear a badge or not.
it's wrong.

if an innocent cop gets shot it's wrong, if a innocent guy or petty criminal get killed for no reason it's wrong.

Can you understand that?
THOU SHALL NOT KILL.
thou shall not kill cops.
thou shall not kill willy nilly just because you have a badge.

L.E. Training? No. but i've got enough common sense not to drive up 10 ft away from a kid in the park that has gun (toy gun) hop out and start firing. Like in the Tamir Rice murder. I know enough that i'd park far enough away to be "safe" ...if i'm in such fear for my life... and then TALK to the kid BEFORE I hopped out of the car and before i opened fire.

Did your L.E. training tell you drive up next to a person you were told has a weapon and start firing?
yes or no?
Does that even make any sense? Even in a full on combat situation does that make sense?
Does your L.E. training tell you to access a situation BEFORE approach and BEFORE you fire? Especially if you have been told the about a weapon and you have time to DRIVE UP to the situation?

The Officer in NY that killed Garner was trained and ordered NOT to use that choke hold. But he used it anyway and... as the training/official policy described... it killed the man. Why didn't he follow his training? Why didn't he follow his orders Elessar? Can you tell me what happens to people in the military that don't follow orders and because of that people die that shouldn't have?
Can you answer that for me?

If you want me to understand what makes those death justified you need to teach a bit.
Not just scold people that didn't get gov't training in L.E.. and expect us to roll over.
expalin to me WHAT L.E. training justifies the actions above Ellesar.

every cop killer should be captured and jailed and/or killed.
but tell me EXACTLY what "L.E. training" justifies the murders of Tamir Rice and Eric Garner?

[Abbey Marie]

I agree with Rev that hate crime legislation is unnecessary and feels like we are adding thought police into the equation. A premeditated murder charge takes care of the situation just fine. I believe all of these laws should be over-turned.

But- if we are going to have them, adding the police onto the list makes perfect sense.

[Russ]

No you don't see, you're making up my view to fit a binary POV you have.

THOU SHALL NOT KILL.
thou shall not kill cops.
thou shall not kill willy nilly just because you have a badge.

but tell me EXACTLY what "L.E. training" justifies the murders of Tamir Rice and Eric Garner?

Clearly, the deaths of Tamir Rice and Eric Garner were not justified. Both guys deserved to be arrested, but their deaths were tragic and we wish they had never happened.

Keep in mind, though, that police shootings during arrests are not usually cops killing people willy nilly because they have a badge. They are usually (I assume) tragic accidents because the police are jumpy since they have to worry about getting killed themselves whenever they make an arrest, or the police get too physically tough during an arrest because some criminals require toughness before they submit. It sucks that these things happen, but they happen.

I wish the protesters could get past the presumption that the police are intentionally killing people. That happened to Walter Scott in SC, but no one seemed to protest about him.

[Noir]

Clearly, the deaths of Tamir Rice and Eric Garner were not justified.

Clearly, that's why the men who murdered Rice and Garner were imprisoned, right?



I wish the protesters could get past the presumption that the police are intentionally killing people. That happened to Walter Scott in SC, but no one seemed to protest about him.

Type "Walter Scott Protest" into your search engine of choice.

[Elessar]

No you don't see, you're making up my view to fit a binary POV you have.
the 'If you're not with us your against' mindset.

that's part of the whole problem.
but tell me EXACTLY what "L.E. training" justifies the murders of Tamir Rice and Eric Garner?

I do not need you telling me what to think. I know what I've experienced. Still sticking up for criminals?

I am not going to waste my time trying to answer multiple questions from a sermon of yours.

The two in question were criminals. They struggled against authority and the cops got exonerated.

L.E. does not use 'choke holds' - the term was popularized in WWA broadcasts...(Pro Fake Wrestling).
It is called a Control Hold to use when all else fails... Level 4 on Use Of Force Continuum...whereby
you advise the person that if he / she would further struggle they would hurt themselves.

I've put many people on their backside using control holds. Best effect is when you look them in
the eyes and tell them "don't move or I'll show you your windpipe".

[revelarts]

I do not need you telling me what to think. I know what I've experienced. Still sticking up for criminals?

I am not going to waste my time trying to answer multiple questions from a sermon of yours.

The two in question were criminals. They struggled against authority and the cops got exonerated.

L.E. does not use 'choke holds' - the term was popularized in WWA broadcasts...(Pro Fake Wrestling).
It is called a Control Hold to use when all else fails... Level 4 on Use Of Force Continuum...whereby
you advise the person that if he / she would further struggle they would hurt themselves.

I've put many people on their backside using control holds. Best effect is when you look them in
the eyes and tell them "don't move or I'll show you your windpipe".

sad.
to sad to deal with it all.
I'll just address your assessment of Rice and Garner.
"The two in question were criminals. They struggled against authority and the cops got exonerated."

What crime was Garner committing at that time that warranted arrest Elessar? much less death.
Unless you're of the mind set that anyone with a past record deserves execution on the street by cops even if they aren't doing anything wrong that day..

And Tamir Rice.
So it's a crime to play with a toy gun on the playground?
a capital offense worthy of instant execution no less.
He never got into a struggle and was never even given a command, just bullets.

sad.

[GravyBoat]

"hate crimes" are nonsense

[Elessar]

sad.
to sad to deal with it all.
I'll just address your assessment of Rice and Garner.
"The two in question were criminals. They struggled against authority and the cops got exonerated."

What crime was Garner committing at that time that warranted arrest Elessar? much less death.
Unless you're of the mind set that anyone with a past record deserves execution on the street by cops even if they aren't doing anything wrong that day..

And Tamir Rice.
So it's a crime to play with a toy gun on the playground?
a capital offense worthy of instant execution no less.
He never got into a struggle and was never even given a command, just bullets.

sad.

I guess you were on scene with both of these and know the facts.

Please enlighten us. Anti-L.E. all the way, aren't you?

Don't try again to tell me what my mindset is. I do NOT try to put words into other people's
mouths or force thoughts in the their brains like you do.

Garner had a record...Better check that out Rev...Was he on a warrant list for his past?
Was his behavior contrary to his release and parole conditions?

Rice...dumb enough to pull or display a toy 'gun' on a cop in limited light.

[Gunny]

No, it doesn't make sense. ALL "hate crime" laws are BS.

If you kill someone and it's NOT self-defense and it not purely accidental
Then it's either manslaughter or murder
The type of malice someone has is irrelevant.

All sides just want the gov't to punish their imagined political enemies.
left socialist or right fascist just as petty and corrupt.

Wow. You made sense for once rev. Was it hard for you?:laugh:

A crime is a crime. Doesn't matter what the reason is. The crime remains the same.

[sundaydriver]

Aren't the laws already stronger with violence against officers than civilians?

[Gunny]

Aren't the laws already stronger with violence against officers than civilians?

Our laws are stupid. You know you can get more time for robbing a bank than murdering someone? What does THAT say?

Just make sure you murder a white person. :rolleyes:

[fj1200]

Still sticking up for criminals?

Nobody has stood up for criminals here. And hate crime laws are stupid.

[Black Diamond]

Nobody has stood up for criminals here. And hate crime laws are stupid.

Then ban all of them if I beat someone because he's black i should get the same penalty as if I beat someone for being a cop. Level the playing field one way or another.

And since the hate crime legislation re race ain't going anywhere...

[Kathianne]

Then ban all of them if I beat someone because he's black i should get the same penalty as if I beat someone for being a cop. Level the playing field one way or another.

And since the hate crime legislation re race ain't going anywhere...
That's what we've all said, over and over again.

[fj1200]

Then ban all of them if I beat someone because he's black i should get the same penalty as if I beat someone for being a cop. Level the playing field one way or another.

And since the hate crime legislation re race ain't going anywhere...

Yes. Just because they aren't going anywhere doesn't mean we should start asking for stuff. Limited government; be an example.

[Black Diamond]

Yes. Just because they aren't going anywhere doesn't mean we should start asking for stuff. Limited government; be an example.
I don't believe in hate crimes. However:
If they keep the racial hate crimes add the cop hate crimes. It's like a flow chart.

[Black Diamond]

That's what we've all said, over and over again.

Except the hate crimes based on race aren't going anywhere.

[fj1200]

Limited government; be an example.

[Kathianne]

Except the hate crimes based on race aren't going anywhere.

They should. Adding to the wrong isn't going to fix it. Then again, let's keep expanding the powers of government! :laugh2:

[Black Diamond]

Limited government; be an example.

If you make all crimes hate crimes, the term loses its meaning or significance.

[fj1200]

If you make all crimes hate crimes, the term loses its meaning or significance.

Exactly.

[Black Diamond]

Exactly.

Can you explain how limited government is pertinent to this issue??

[fj1200]

Can you explain how limited government is pertinent to this issue??

Kathianne had a good answer. Nevertheless hate crime legislation is nothing more than constituency based government that leads to more and more government action. I'm not quite sure how they withstand equal protection scrutiny but I haven't really looked either.

[Kathianne]

Kathianne had a good answer. Nevertheless hate crime legislation is nothing more than constituency based government that leads to more and more government action. I'm not quite sure how they withstand equal protection scrutiny but I haven't really looked either.

What I've learned is that many that thought, (as did I), they were conservative; aren't. They really want more and more government. More laws. More regulations. More taxes. More more!

They just want it on different people and for different reasons.

None trust people that don't agree with them. They trust politicians! :laugh2:

[fj1200]

What I've learned is that many that thought, (as did I), they were conservative; aren't. They really want more and more government. More laws. More regulations. More taxes. More more!

They just want it on different people and for different reasons.

None trust people that don't agree with them. They trust politicians! :laugh2:

I can't reply without making someone mad so I will just agree. :eek: