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Kathianne
07-26-2016, 10:09 PM
http://theweek.com/articles/638661/gop-convention-bad-democratic-convention-already-worse

I disagree with his conclusion on blame, I'd put that on an ill-informed electorate and the two parties' elites. Change is going to come, but it won't be from Cruz or Sanders, but those pushed out of the two parties change in ideologies. Neither provides for those that really want government to work.



The GOP convention was bad. The Democratic convention is already worse. Edward Morrissey (http://theweek.com/authors/edward-morrissey)




To paraphrase Mark Twain's observation on weather, everyone complains about the two-party system — but nobody does anything about it. That has long seemed true of routine complaints about the binary nature of America's national politics, which have been stable for more than 150 years. In 2016, however, the appeal of factional politics appears to have caught up with the Republican and Democratic parties — and at just the precise moment when both seemingly have lost the competence needed to stage a simple, scripted convention.


Tensions between grassroots voters and the party leadership nearly produced a disaster in last week's Republican convention. Despite their defeat in the primaries, so-called #NeverTrump delegates attempted to pass a series of reforms in the Rules Committee, including a rule that would allow delegates at future conventions to "vote their consciences" — in other words, ignore direct democracy. That only attracted a handful of votes in the committee meeting leading up to the convention, but the desire to make a statement about the rules during the main event didn't die with those proposals.

...

The Democrats delighted in gloating about the GOP chaos.

Oops.
This week has already arguably been worse for the Democrats than last week was for the GOP. And it's only Tuesday.
DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been tossed out of her own convention and forced to step down as DNC chair. Top Democrats got booed at warm-up events across the spectrum — and even at the convention itself.

...

The lesson from both the Republican convention and the disastrous start of the Democratic convention may well be that the much-predicted end of the two-party system has all but arrived. Both parties have traditionally acted as so-called big tents, where factions have always contended for primacy. In the end, though, party regulars — the agents of representative democracy — understood that unity after a primary boosted everyone's access to influence and power, and held populist passions in check to ensure the best possible broad front for general elections, both for the White House and for Congress.

Now, however, the populists — agents for direct democracy — in both parties may be ready to break those ties and remain independent factions rather than yoke together for a common goal. If so, few have more responsibility for that than Bernie Sanders, who offered a chagrined response to the boos that naturally flowed from his populist "revolution," and Ted Cruz, who made ideology not just superior to unity but made cohesion itself evidence of betrayal. They may well have made themselves obsolete along with the two-party system they long decried. And if one of these parties can figure out how to come together for one last hurrah, they may take it all in 2016.

Abbey Marie
07-27-2016, 08:07 AM
I did not see much amiss at the Republican convention. Just the brief sideshow of ol' Ted playing his games, and getting nowhere with them. Now, the whole Bernie/DWS thing was another story.

Kathianne
07-27-2016, 08:12 AM
I did not see much amiss at the Republican convention. Just the brief sideshow of ol' Ted playing his games, and getting nowhere with them. Now, the whole Bernie/DWS thing was another story.

Either you don't remember previous conventions or you saw what you wanted to see. Not saying you're wrong on the DNC having a worse time, but unity was not found and still isn't with either party.

darin
07-27-2016, 08:12 AM
...and the future is already over, based on the perception of time. Thus, based on perception, it's already happened and can't change.

Abbey Marie
07-27-2016, 08:16 AM
Either you don't remember previous conventions or you saw what you wanted to see. Not saying you're wrong on the DNC having a worse time, but unity was not found and still isn't with either party.

I've seen several. I saw a pretty excited cheering audience of delegates and a total takedown of Uncle Ted. What did you see that I did not mention?

Kathianne
07-27-2016, 08:24 AM
I've seen several. I saw a pretty excited cheering audience of delegates and a total takedown of Uncle Ted. What did you see that I did not mention?

What I saw unsurprisingly is those Trump delegates were just as you said, others much less so. They're trying to put a good face on, trying to get on board-it's what they've always done. There are big problems there, which if he wins and isn't what is feared will make things better later on. There will be problems though with Congress if he doesn't change and the question is 'how likely is that?' Delegates KNOW that, they understand the process of elections and the process of governing and the inherent limitations and differences.

Enthusiasm was limited, unlike the DNC there were no walkouts.

What happened with Ted and what he did and did not do is even now being evaluated and re-evaluated. That too is part of politics. Think Nixon and Reagan.

The DNC has as many if not more problems though. Luckily I'm glad for that, not so the other.

Kathianne
07-27-2016, 08:48 AM
THIS did not happen at RNC, which does illustrate more discipline by both party and those that want to keep the party together. In the Democrat party everyone is a community organizer.

That doesn't mean the RNC doesn't have a big problem, they do. There is a core that has ideas of what government should and should do. Some will find a fit in continuing with the party, others will choose differently. The most obvious dissent at the RNC convention was a refusal to endorse. What will be more telling down the line is the number of folks that identify as Independent or third party down the line and which of the two parties lose the most numbers. That will take months, even years. A lot will depend on November and if there's a win, what follows. If it's a loss and the blame falls on those that wouldn't support Trump, well it will accellerate:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/26/bernie_sanders_angry_delegates_walk_out_of_the_dem ocratic_convention.html


Walking Out of the DNC With Bernie’s Heartbroken Delegates



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(http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/26/bernie_sanders_angry_delegates_walk_out_of_the_dem ocratic_convention.html#comments)
By Jim Newell (http://www.slate.com/authors.jim_newell.html) and Tommy Craggs (http://www.slate.com/authors.tommy_craggs.html)

PHILADELPHIA—If, during the nomination by acclamation of Hillary Clinton, the cheers throughout the Wells Fargo Center seemed more unanimous than the makeup of the delegations would seem to reflect, part of that may have been because many of the most hardcore Berners were leaving the room. They had other plans.

Walking onto the arena’s main concourse Tuesday night following Clinton’s nomination, all you had to do was follow the chant. It wasn’t hard to figure out what this growing mass of bodies was doing. “WALK OUT, WALK OUT,” they chanted. What may have started with a few states wound up drawing from dozens—at least 30 in all, according to a Sanders delegate from Vermont named Shyla Nelson. They had turned their DNC-issued Hillary posters into protest signs; one scratched out the arrowed Clinton logo and wrote “Go To Hell” over it, while another changed “Do the most good” to “Bernie does the most good.”

...

Once outside, a delegate near the head of the group shouted out directions: take over the nearby, nicely air-conditioned media tent. The group walked in, awakening off-site editors from whatever it is editors do. Once inside, some delegates—many with their mouths taped shut—held up banners and posters, while others took their places for the sit-in.

“We are sitting here because we feel like our voices have not been heard,” said a seated Emily Kimball, a young delegate from North Dakota. “The DNC is not listening to the Bernie Sanders delegates, and so even though we’re being asked to rally around Hillary Clinton … this is us as a people feeling that we’re not being listened to by politicians in general.”

...

How did the walkout get started? No one really wanted to say. Karen Bernal, a California Sanders delegate and a prominent member of the Bernie Delegates Network, confirmed that it was hardly an impromptu response to events on the floor. “People knew about it,” she said. “It was very Occupy-ish in the sense that it was very horizontally organized.” When asked where it started, she told Slate she’d rather not say. Another young delegate from Idaho, who’d initially said he was willing to talk, demurred when asked the same thing.

“I know a couple of people from other states and their delegates, and one said that they were having a silent protest,” said Nayirah Muhammad, a 20-year-old Alabama delegate who told Slate that she just got made a delegate that day. “My boss is actually a Clinton delegate, and she brought me along—it was a long ride!—and so I got nominated to be a delegate and I got voted in.”

She couldn’t help but notice what plenty of other people had noticed: These Sanders delegates were young. She talked about how bittersweet it was to watch Sanders move to nominate Clinton by acclamation at the end of the roll call, even if they knew it was coming.

...