Disagreements

[jimnyc]

The board, obviously, is comprised of a majority of conservatives. We do have a couple of liberals and some of course that pop in from time to time.

Anyway, the conservatives. There are tons of issues out there that are considered "conservative" and just as many considered "liberal". The issues are endless. Do we agree on ALL of them? Of course not. Hell, many of us disagree even on some of the most important of topics.

That's why I don't get people jumping up and down because Trump and Pence don't agree on every last detail. I don't mean those here, but what I've been reading and seeing elsewhere. Sure, of course, in a perfect world they would have identical views, but that's unrealistic.

The major ones that stand out are Pence's stance on the war from 2003, and his stance on abortion. Honestly, to me, what matters NOW in electing someone, is that they are prepared to face what is thrown at them today, and it sounds to me like they are prepared to face things appropriately and in a manner that I like! :) And they agree on abortion today. And I doubt either one can somehow make it illegal. And then of course on free trade. I personally prefer Trump's stance thus far.

I don't think Obama and Biden agreed on everything either (I know, HORRID comparison!) LOL

Bush and Cheney sure didn't agree on everything.

I can't imagine Hillary choosing ANYONE that has agreed with her on everything.

They're not going into this election running against one another, and their not lining up perfectly on every last issue doesn't worry me at all.

[jimnyc]

VP pick Pence talks solidarity with Trump in first TV appearance

Indiana Gov. Mike Pence made his network debut as Donald Trump's running mate Friday night, reaffirming his alignment with Trump on some of his more controversial policies and setting the tone for attacks on President Obama and Hillary Clinton.

A December tweet from Pence resurfaced amid reports that he had been picked in which he called Trump's proposal to ban Muslims from entering the country "offensive and unconstitutional."

But on Fox News's "Hannity" Friday night, he said he was in full agreement with Trump on the issue, suggesting that the switch follow's Trump's own pivot away from religion and toward geography.

"I am very supportive of Donald Trump’s call to temporarily suspend immigration from countries where terrorist influence and impact represents a threat to the United States," Pence said. “I’ve never hesitated to take issue with fellow Republicans when I don’t think that things came out quite right or quite how I would have done it. And I want folks to know that I strongly agree with Donald Trump’s call that we have got to do something different.”

He said he agrees with Trump's proposal to block Syrian refugees from coming into the U.S., and criticized Clinton for suggesting an increase in accepting refugees.

“I think its reckless and irresponsible for Hillary Clinton to call for a 550 percent increase in the Syrian refugee program at a time of such peril for the United States and our allies," he said.

Pence characterized the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) as a military enemy "conjured up in the vacuum" created by Obama and Clinton, and criticized their leadership in reducing troops in the Middle East. He said the attempted coup in Turkey that was unfolding Friday night was evidence of a sense of anarchy sweeping the region due to the U.S. creating a precarious situation there.

Pence dodged a question from host Sean Hannity about Muslims immigrating to or living in the U.S. who recognize Shariah, an Islam-based rules and law structure — on Thursday another VP contender, Newt Gingrich, had called for the deportation of Muslims who believe in Shariah.

“We just need to be smarter and think harder about individuals who might be coming here," he said.

Pence said he "absolutely" supports Trump's plan to build a Mexico-funded wall along the southern border, but added that there is room for improvement in the nation's immigration system.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/288008-vp-pick-pence-talks-solidarity-with-trump-in-first-tv

[Elessar]

Disagreements are a natural human trait. If not, we would all be clones or pre-programmed robots.
The strength needed among our elected leaders is to respect viewpoints and work on a solution - something
that has become alien over the past two decades.

I disagree with quite a lot I see here but can usually fend off stuff or compromise. If someone dislikes
my opinion...so be it! But I might not back down until I see reason to.

Two things I will stand hard and fast on:

1. Do not threaten, veiled or openly, a sitting or past President or other official;
2. Don't get into using a President's or other politician's children in a negative
manner. I saw that done on another forum with Clinton's and GWB's.
That is a low-blow chicken-shit way to extend a heated discussion.

[Gunny]

Disagreements are a natural human trait. If not, we would all be clones or pre-programmed robots.
The strength needed among our elected leaders is to respect viewpoints and work on a solution - something
that has become alien over the past two decades.

I disagree with quite a lot I see here but can usually fend off stuff or compromise. If someone dislikes
my opinion...so be it! But I might not back down until I see reason to.

Two things I will stand hard and fast on:

1. Do not threaten, veiled or openly, a sitting or past President or other official;
2. Don't get into using a President's or other politician's children in a negative
manner. I saw that done on another forum with Clinton's and GWB's.
That is a low-blow chicken-shit way to extend a heated discussion.

I agree with those rules. The only subjective one is I HAVE in the past invited others to have my address and show up in the yard. Some say that's a threat. I don't. You have tou have to take the invite.

There are also members that if you warn them about their conduct on the board will call THAT a threat.

As far as Jim's original point goes, doesn't matter to me if Trump and Pence agree or not. I disagree with either of them being chosen. There are people that like them here and people that don't. I just am not really into how far some people will go with personal attacks on the member and don't want to participate in anything that goes too far.

Getting too old for that sh*t. :laugh:

[Elessar]

I agree with those rules. The only subjective one is I HAVE in the past invited others to have my address and show up in the yard. Some say that's a threat. I don't. You have tou have to take the invite.

There are also members that if you warn them about their conduct on the board will call THAT a threat.

:laugh:

I have never done that, but did have one in particular threaten to come to my place (as well as those of others)...name was Bunker...
to *Ahem*...deal with me. Told him to bring it on and be prepared to be disappointed. Of course - it never happened.:laugh:

Saw that often as well. That is one reason I will not be a Mod or Admin anywhere any more. Just not worth the aggravation
of listening to the whining, when the behavior was fully precipitated by the individual.

[Black Diamond]

I have never done that, but did have one in particular threaten to come to my place (as well as those of others)...name was Bunker...
to *Ahem*...deal with me. Told him to bring it on and be prepared to be disappointed. Of course - it never happened.:laugh:

Saw that often as well. That is one reason I will not be a Mod or Admin anywhere any more. Just not worth the aggravation
of listening to the whining, when the behavior was fully precipitated by the individual.
Archie? Or did you call him meathead ?

[Elessar]

Archie? Or did you call him meathead ?

I saw the humor in that!

Nope, not either one. Two people here from prior boards know who I mean.

[Gunny]

I have never done that, but did have one in particular threaten to come to my place (as well as those of others)...name was Bunker...
to *Ahem*...deal with me. Told him to bring it on and be prepared to be disappointed. Of course - it never happened.:laugh:

Saw that often as well. That is one reason I will not be a Mod or Admin anywhere any more. Just not worth the aggravation
of listening to the whining, when the behavior was fully precipitated by the individual.

It doesn't really happen much here. Every blue moon or so we get a whack job.

[Trigg]

I was surprised at Trump's pick and more than a little worried.

Pence is a controversial person in Indiana. Two of my kids voted in the primary specifically to vote for the guy running against him.

We had to stop talking politics in my house.

My oldest is voting 3rd party.....dislikes Trump and Hillary

My daughter is voting Trump

My 18yr old is (sigh) a liberal.......but he doesn't like Hillary and says he isn't voting for president this year.

[Black Diamond]

I was surprised at Trump's pick and more than a little worried.

Pence is a controversial person in Indiana. Two of my kids voted in the primary specifically to vote for the guy running against him.

We had to stop talking politics in my house.

My oldest is voting 3rd party.....dislikes Trump and Hillary

My daughter is voting Trump

My 18yr old is (sigh) a liberal.......but he doesn't like Hillary and says he isn't voting for president this year.

Do you thnk Pence will have appeal in Ohio?

[Gunny]

Do you thnk Pence will have appeal in Ohio?

He's not going to have much appeal in the Southwest. Most of us don't have any idea who he is.

And make no mistake ... what is considered conservative in the upper Midwest and Northeast is NOT a conservative down here.

[jimnyc]

He's not going to have much appeal in the Southwest. Most of us don't have any idea who he is.

And make no mistake ... what is considered conservative in the upper Midwest and Northeast is NOT a conservative down here.

So all of these years, those in the NE voted into office and considered "conservative", the folks in the south didn't believe that they were in fact conservative? And when folks in the south are voted in, and done so as conservatives, those in the north didn't believe so? Never really saw much complaints from either side, to be honest. Odd, when I look at the conservatives from Texas, for example, I don't see them as much different than conservatives from the north.

But then I suppose it wouldn't have mattered then. Put someone in there that was from the south or south west, then I suppose everyone in the north wouldn't have seen such a person as conservative. Odd.

[Gunny]

So all of these years, those in the NE voted into office and considered "conservative", the folks in the south didn't believe that they were in fact conservative? And when folks in the south are voted in, and done so as conservatives, those in the north didn't believe so? Never really saw much complaints from either side, to be honest. Odd, when I look at the conservatives from Texas, for example, I don't see them as much different than conservatives from the north.

But then I suppose it wouldn't have mattered then. Put someone in there that was from the south or south west, then I suppose everyone in the north wouldn't have seen such a person as conservative. Odd.

You're missing my point, and it is NOT a knock. I've lived in almost every region of this country. And conservative IS regional. Same goes for lefties. People refuse to accept the fact that others don't think like them. That's our biggest problem with Islam. They don't think like us.

The proper word is "different" not "wrong", but all I ever hear or see is "wrong if you don't think like me". No one tries to understand anything different anymore. I find THAT "odd". I've always been curious.

What you are misconstruing as "we need someone from the South or SW" is a strategic comment on my part to bring regions together. JFK used that strategy like a charm.

It's an observation, not an accusation.

[jimnyc]

You're missing my point, and it is NOT a knock. I've lived in almost every region of this country. And conservative IS regional. Same goes for lefties. People refuse to accept the fact that others don't think like them. That's our biggest problem with Islam. They don't think like us.

The proper word is "different" not "wrong", but all I ever hear or see is "wrong if you don't think like me". No one tries to understand anything different anymore. I find THAT "odd". I've always been curious.

What you are misconstruing as "we need someone from the South or SW" is a strategic comment on my part to bring regions together. JFK used that strategy like a charm.

It's an observation, not an accusation.

Liberal is liberal and conservative is conservative, no? Or perhaps Trump being from NY - perhaps he is full blood conservative with EVERYTHING, but it's just that you don't see it, because he's a "different" conservative? And someone like Ted Cruz - those in the NE would be onto something a little if they said he really doesn't have any conservative stances?

You make it sound as if folks won't vote, or won't see Pence as a conservative, because he's from Indiana/north. I think you would be hard pressed to find things in his history, or currently, to say he's NOT conservative. The ONLY reason I can think that someone would prefer someone from a regional location is the "known" factor. But hell, I doubt either you or I know all of the governors out there, I'll guarantee that. Nor know everyone that has been in congress in the past for 6 terms.

Honestly, I don't see picking someone JUST because they are known better is a sound decision in the end.

[Black Diamond]

Liberal is liberal and conservative is conservative, no? Or perhaps Trump being from NY - perhaps he is full blood conservative with EVERYTHING, but it's just that you don't see it, because he's a "different" conservative? And someone like Ted Cruz - those in the NE would be onto something a little if they said he really doesn't have any conservative stances?

You make it sound as if folks won't vote, or won't see Pence as a conservative, because he's from Indiana/north. I think you would be hard pressed to find things in his history, or currently, to say he's NOT conservative. The ONLY reason I can think that someone would prefer someone from a regional location is the "known" factor. But hell, I doubt either you or I know all of the governors out there, I'll guarantee that. Nor know everyone that has been in congress in the past for 6 terms.

Honestly, I don't see picking someone JUST because they are known better is a sound decision in the end.

Liberal and conservative are in the eye of the beholder and also relative and ambiguous terms.

[Gunny]

Liberal is liberal and conservative is conservative, no? Or perhaps Trump being from NY - perhaps he is full blood conservative with EVERYTHING, but it's just that you don't see it, because he's a "different" conservative? And someone like Ted Cruz - those in the NE would be onto something a little if they said he really doesn't have any conservative stances?

You make it sound as if folks won't vote, or won't see Pence as a conservative, because he's from Indiana/north. I think you would be hard pressed to find things in his history, or currently, to say he's NOT conservative. The ONLY reason I can think that someone would prefer someone from a regional location is the "known" factor. But hell, I doubt either you or I know all of the governors out there, I'll guarantee that. Nor know everyone that has been in congress in the past for 6 terms.

Honestly, I don't see picking someone JUST because they are known better is a sound decision in the end.

I'm watching that plane zoom right over your head. First off, don't call these NAZI lefties liberal. There's nothing liberal about them.

And again, what you think is conservative and what I think is conservative are two different animals. You don't want to accept that. It IS regional and I can name you the governors of Texas for quite a few decades. Ann Richards was such a dismal failure we've had Republican Governors ever since.

Take the Johnston faction for example. He's allegedly a libertarian? He's actually a leftwinger from Hell. The people that call themselves conservative in NM are bigger leftwingnuts than those in CA. There is no set definition for conservative and leftwingnut.

We don't live in your world. Nor do you live in ours. And much as you hate to hear it and nothing personal, we don't trust yankees hereabouts. Regional differences have been a problem in this country since Day One. We killed each other in a war over it. It didn't change this morning.

[Black Diamond]

I'm watching that plane zoom right over your head. First off, don't call these NAZI lefties liberal. There's nothing liberal about them.

And again, what you think is conservative and what I think is conservative are two different animals. You don't want to accept that. It IS regional and I can name you the governors of Texas for quite a few decades. Ann Richards was such a dismal failure we've had Republican Governors ever since.

Take the Johnston faction for example. He's allegedly a libertarian? He's actually a leftwinger from Hell. The people that call themselves conservative in NM are bigger leftwingnuts than those in CA. There is no set definition for conservative and leftwingnut.

We don't live in your world. Nor do you live in ours. And much as you hate to hear it and nothing personal, we don't trust yankees hereabouts. Regional differences have been a problem in this country since Day One. We killed each other in a war over it. It didn't change this morning.

Like I said....

[jimnyc]

Liberal and conservative are in the eye of the beholder and also relative and ambiguous terms.

To an extent I agree. But for example, look at Pence's stance on abortion. Can that be seen as anything BUT conservative? Or both of their stances on the 2nd amendment? Both of their conservative stances on immigration? Pence stance on marriage? I won't go on forever, but I believe there are certain issues that are either conservative, or they are not. Of course some are more important than others, some much more important than others, and perhaps some not worthy of getting into a debate about when there are more pressing issues.

I guess my point is - if you have someone like Pence in Indiana, a lifelong conservative, I don't think if he up and moves with his family to Texas that he would be a liberal by the end of the week - or even less conservative, IMO.

[jimnyc]

And much as you hate to hear it and nothing personal, we don't trust yankees hereabouts.

You have made that abundantly clear, even if not "personal". :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

To an extent I agree. But for example, look at Pence's stance on abortion. Can that be seen as anything BUT conservative? Or both of their stances on the 2nd amendment? Both of their conservative stances on immigration? Pence stance on marriage? I won't go on forever, but I believe there are certain issues that are either conservative, or they are not. Of course some are more important than others, some much more important than others, and perhaps some not worthy of getting into a debate about when there are more pressing issues.

I guess my point is - if you have someone like Pence in Indiana, a lifelong conservative, I don't think if he up and moves with his family to Texas that he would be a liberal by the end of the week - or even less conservative, IMO.

Bush I did. They're from Maine. Little late at this point though. I'm looking at this like a battle plan. How do I get people to vote for me?

You don't alienate them.

And you don't sit in your little corner. You try to gather as much as you can to support the flanks. If I can enlist your army to help fight my war, I'm going to look at it.

You're trying to run an idealistic campaign against a bunch of cheaters and liars while having a disconnect with the people you want to support you.

[Trigg]

Do you thnk Pence will have appeal in Ohio?

Ohio (because of the large cities) tends to go democrat, even if the rest of the state is conservative. Pence's abortion legislation probably would have hurt his re-election here in Indiana, I can't see him being anymore popular in Ohio.

Hell I'm pro-life and was strongly considering voting against him because of the bolded portion below. All life is precious, but a severely mentally or physically handicapped child can financially destroy a family.


In addition to holding doctors liable if a woman has an abortion solely because of objections to the fetus’s race, sex or a disability, like Down syndrome (http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/down-syndrome/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier), the law restricts fetal tissue donation and requires doctors performing abortions to have admitting privileges at a hospital or to have an agreement with a doctor who does.