Black on black shooting in England

[Sitarro]

I thought with such strict gun laws that this would never happen in England. More black on black crime, even across the ocean with very strong gun laws, a black asshole can get a hold of a handgun and kill a role model (he is not expected to survive)in the community....... why am I not that surprised?

Boxing champion shot in the head for saying 'don't smoke'

James Oyebola: shot after he asked three men to stop smoking


A bouncer was shot in the face at point-blank range after asking three men to stop smoking at a London nightclub.
Former heavyweight boxing champion James Oyebola, 47, was confronted outside Chateau 6 in Fulham.
One of the men produced a gun and fired several times. Mr Oyebolawho was also hit in the leg, is critically ill today in hospital and is under armed police guard. His partner and their two children are thought to be with him.
The 6ft 9in ex-fighter, known as Big Bad, had been working on the door of another club and had dropped in at Chateau 6 for a drink with the owner.
Witnesses said Mr Oyebola had politely stepped in to help staff who had asked the three men to observe the ban on smoking. "He wasn't being aggressive," said one.
"He pointed out that smoking was now against the law.
"He was just being a good citizen but the three saw it as a sign of disrespect. On their way out one pulled out a gun and began firing at James." The suspects, who
police described as three black men, ran off following the shooting shortly before 1am yesterday. A handgun was found nearby.
Police sealed off the scene opposite Fulham Broadway Tube station.

Police stand outside the Chateau 6 club in Fulham

Nigerian-born Mr Oyebola was on a life support machine in intensive care today but according to reports is not expected to survive.
His former manager Frank Maloney said: "James is a gentle giant. This is truly shocking."
Joanna Gressler, who works at nearby restaurant La Vina, said: "It's terrible. He is such a nice, friendly guy. He used to come in here a lot and was always smiling. He is very distinctive because he is so tall and big." Another local woman said: "There's still blood all over the pavement.
"It's horrible to think about what happened. I was only in there a couple of nights before. It's a small bar with a dance floor at the back. It used to be a rough Chelsea supporters' pub called the White Hart but it's much smarter now."

Oyebola celebrates victory after his British heavyweight WBC title fight at Cardiff

Chateau 6 advertises itself as "Fulham's premier late-night venue". Its garden bar is said to be "perfect for private parties" and has a retractable roof.
Police are holding a meeting this afternoon to brief the area's bar managers on security.
Mr Oyebola is good friends with Chateau 6's owner, thought to be an Irish man who is said to be devastated. The restaurantbar remained shut today.
The shooting is being investigated by detectives from Trident team who deal with gun crime in the black community.
Mr Oyebola's partner of 15 years and his children, who are thought to be secondary school age, are keeping a bedside vigil.
Detective Chief Inspector Scott Wilson said: "I would urge anyone with information to come forward to police and assist us in bringing those responsible for gravely injuring-James to justice. We are still trying to piece it together. It would appear that James was trying to be the peacemaker and the altercation over smoking escalated from there.
"It was over very quickly, probably a matter of seconds."
He said they were trying to track down three men who were seen running away in the direction of Fulham Broadway and Harwood Road.

Mr Wilson added: "James was a family man and has a longterm partner who two children who are absolutely distraught by what has happened. Without a doubt to shoot a man like this is absolutely deplorable and these people need to be caught."

[Psychoblues]

You'll say anything to start a racist or gun freak conversation, zorro. Have I told you lately that I thought you pitiful?

[Sitarro]

You'll say anything to start a racist or gun freak conversation, zorro. Have I told you lately that I thought you pitiful?

racist????? fact...... sorry blues boy. Yawn.......:finger3:

[Psychoblues]

Plenty expected, zorro.



racist????? fact...... sorry blues boy. Yawn.......:finger3:

How about this cartoon? :pee:

[diuretic]

From the post WWII period up until about the 1970s (or thereabouts) crimes committed with firearms (and I do mean premeditated crime such as robbery) were comparatively rare in Britain. But not now. The drug trade started it and the opening up of the former Soviet Bloc has pushed it along. Crime is very much organised along ethnic lines in Britain, that's not a racist statement, it's fact.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/371604.stm

While firearms control laws are good for managing legitimate gun use in a society, it's obvious that organised crime will take no notice of firearms control laws. That's a given. And those who are opposed to firearms control laws on ideological grounds have to concede that it's ridiculous criticising firearms control laws with the "but the crooks have them, therefore the firearms control laws aren't working." They are if only the crooks have them. If, other than in criminal ranks, the ownership and use of firearms in a society is well-regulated, according to the wishes of that society then that shows the laws are working.

Firearms for organised criminals are simply a tool of the trade, like a blacksmith's hammer.

[red states rule]

From the post WWII period up until about the 1970s (or thereabouts) crimes committed with firearms (and I do mean premeditated crime such as robbery) were comparatively rare in Britain. But not now. The drug trade started it and the opening up of the former Soviet Bloc has pushed it along. Crime is very much organised along ethnic lines in Britain, that's not a racist statement, it's fact.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/371604.stm

While firearms control laws are good for managing legitimate gun use in a society, it's obvious that organised crime will take no notice of firearms control laws. That's a given. And those who are opposed to firearms control laws on ideological grounds have to concede that it's ridiculous criticising firearms control laws with the "but the crooks have them, therefore the firearms control laws aren't working." They are if only the crooks have them. If, other than in criminal ranks, the ownership and use of firearms in a society is well-regulated, according to the wishes of that society then that shows the laws are working.

Firearms for organised criminals are simply a tool of the trade, like a blacksmith's hammer.

all gun control laws do is make it easier for criminals to commit crimes - and make it harder for law abiding people to protect themselfs

[diuretic]

all gun control laws do is make it easier for criminals to commit crimes - and make it harder for law abiding people to protect themselfs

As I said above, there's a definite point - or perhaps a range of years - when things changed in the UK. Again, as I said above, firearms control laws aren't about regulating the ownership and use of firearms by criminals because criminals who need those weapons aren't deterred by the law (they're not called "criminals" for nothing). As for people protecting themselves. Given that firearms control laws in the past have been effective in the UK the point is moot. Organised criminals in the UK are using firearms on each other. Of course there's a spill-over of firearms into the general community, organised crime groups are importing them unlawfully in such high numbers that in certain sub-cultures they are a form of currency.

[Trigg]

You'll say anything to start a racist or gun freak conversation, zorro. Have I told you lately that I thought you pitiful?

It's not racist to mention black on black homicide rates. It's a fact, in this country anyway, that the black homicide rate is the same as the white and they only make up 13% of the population.

[red states rule]

As I said above, there's a definite point - or perhaps a range of years - when things changed in the UK. Again, as I said above, firearms control laws aren't about regulating the ownership and use of firearms by criminals because criminals who need those weapons aren't deterred by the law (they're not called "criminals" for nothing). As for people protecting themselves. Given that firearms control laws in the past have been effective in the UK the point is moot. Organised criminals in the UK are using firearms on each other. Of course there's a spill-over of firearms into the general community, organised crime groups are importing them unlawfully in such high numbers that in certain sub-cultures they are a form of currency.

I would (and am) rather be a gun owne,r instead of a crime victim. In the states,DC has trhe toughest gun laws in the nation - they also have a high crime and murder rate

[diuretic]

I would (and am) rather be a gun owne,r instead of a crime victim. In the states,DC has trhe toughest gun laws in the nation - they also have a high crime and murder rate

You won't find a word written by me which attacks your firearms control laws. I have said repeatedly that if I lived in the States I'd make sure I was in a ccw state and I would purchase and carry a handgun and I would use it if necessary (I'm not guessing about that, I know it). I'm not frightened of firearms, I've owned several. Firearms are great fun.

The UK has a problem with crime in certain sub-cultures and they're responding to it. While the average cop doesn't carry a firearm (btw they should) they do have emergency response officers who are very well equipped. The response has, in my opinion, been slow but they're starting to understand what they're up against. In general there isn't a high ownership rate among Brits so, as I stress, their firearms control laws work fine for the general public for whom those laws are intended.

[red states rule]

You won't find a word written by me which attacks your firearms control laws. I have said repeatedly that if I lived in the States I'd make sure I was in a ccw state and I would purchase and carry a handgun and I would use it if necessary (I'm not guessing about that, I know it). I'm not frightened of firearms, I've owned several. Firearms are great fun.

The UK has a problem with crime in certain sub-cultures and they're responding to it. While the average cop doesn't carry a firearm (btw they should) they do have emergency response officers who are very well equipped. The response has, in my opinion, been slow but they're starting to understand what they're up against. In general there isn't a high ownership rate among Brits so, as I stress, their firearms control laws work fine for the general public for whom those laws are intended.

the anti gun nuts are always looking for a reason to take guns away form the law abiding people

everytime there is a shooting they whine how we "need" more gun laws. As if the new laws would have prevented the shooting

[diuretic]

the anti gun nuts are always looking for a reason to take guns away form the law abiding people

everytime there is a shooting they whine how we "need" more gun laws. As if the new laws would have prevented the shooting

As I said, in the US, too late. The most practical thing is to adapt to the situation. I remember being in Tonopah, Nevada one night (spring and it was snowing, it was great) and I was in a sort of roadhouse shop and the lady behind the counter was showing me the firearms she had for sale. Being an alien she knew I couldn't purchase any but she was really nice and showed me what she had there. I mean in a small town in Nevada she had a beautiful specially presented Colt 1911 ACP, boxed and everything, it was stunning. I can't remember the price, it wasn't cheap of course, but it was a beauty.

[red states rule]

As I said, in the US, too late. The most practical thing is to adapt to the situation. I remember being in Tonopah, Nevada one night (spring and it was snowing, it was great) and I was in a sort of roadhouse shop and the lady behind the counter was showing me the firearms she had for sale. Being an alien she knew I couldn't purchase any but she was really nice and showed me what she had there. I mean in a small town in Nevada she had a beautiful specially presented Colt 1911 ACP, boxed and everything, it was stunning. I can't remember the price, it wasn't cheap of course, but it was a beauty.

I guess in the UK, the only weapon the folks can use on criminals is harsh language

[diuretic]

I guess in the UK, the only weapon the folks can use on criminals is harsh language

Pickaxe handles used to be the favoured weapon of blaggers ("blag" = violent robbery).

[red states rule]

Pickaxe handles used to be the favoured weapon of blaggers ("blag" = violent robbery).

While the criminals have the guns. Liberalism is fatal to your health

[diuretic]

While the criminals have the guns. Liberalism is fatal to your health

Criminals are, by definition, entrepreneurial and entrepreneurs only take calculated risks. The reason why blaggers used to use pickaxe handles was because the sentences in the UK for armed (with a firearm) robbery were so harsh. Another reason was that unless you were a particularly nasty individual the chances of you killing someone with a pickaxe were less than using a firearm. Crooks are rational.

But in the UK in recent years, for many reasons, that rationality has been stomped down. Criminals had and have no compunction in arming themselves. Why I don't know. I do know it has nothing to do with an "unarmed citizenry" and the prevailing effect of English firearms control laws.

[red states rule]

Criminals are, by definition, entrepreneurial and entrepreneurs only take calculated risks. The reason why blaggers used to use pickaxe handles was because the sentences in the UK for armed (with a firearm) robbery were so harsh. Another reason was that unless you were a particularly nasty individual the chances of you killing someone with a pickaxe were less than using a firearm. Crooks are rational.

But in the UK in recent years, for many reasons, that rationality has been stomped down. Criminals had and have no compunction in arming themselves. Why I don't know. I do know it has nothing to do with an "unarmed citizenry" and the prevailing effect of English firearms control laws.

So it has nothing with the idiot libs in the UK making it illegal for the folks to own a gun so they can defend themselves from criminals?

Libs seem to think if they ban somethng - it will really go away and the problem is solved

[diuretic]

So it has nothing with the idiot libs in the UK making it illegal for the folks to own a gun so they can defend themselves from criminals?

Libs seem to think if they ban somethng - it will really go away and the problem is solved

You weren't paying attention. The average person in the UK isn't directly threatened by organised criminals, it's not walking around in some cities in the US where you have to assume that every second person is packing. Firearms are part of a sub-culture, I gave you the example of Yardies. They tend to keep it to themselves.

[red states rule]

You weren't paying attention. The average person in the UK isn't directly threatened by organised criminals, it's not walking around in some cities in the US where you have to assume that every second person is packing. Firearms are part of a sub-culture, I gave you the example of Yardies. They tend to keep it to themselves.

Crime is through the roof in the UK - thanks to the gun ban

[diuretic]

Crime is through the roof in the UK - thanks to the gun ban

Don't be silly. If you're going to argue causation then you have to do a bit of work. You need to go back into English history and work out when firearms began to be controlled, then you have to look at crime rates for various periods. You need to allow for other variables such as world wars and the effect of economic cycles. That should take you a couple of years.

[red states rule]

Don't be silly. If you're going to argue causation then you have to do a bit of work. You need to go back into English history and work out when firearms began to be controlled, then you have to look at crime rates for various periods. You need to allow for other variables such as world wars and the effect of economic cycles. That should take you a couple of years.

Gee, criminals know they wil not get shot by the folks due to a gun ban. Crime goes up, but to the libs it has nothing to do with the gun ban

:laugh2:

[diuretic]

Gee, criminals know they wil not get shot by the folks due to a gun ban. Crime goes up, but to the libs it has nothing to do with the gun ban

:laugh2:

In my experience criminals know where the threat is from. That was my point about unarmed cops. Crooks know that ordinary folks are likely to be unarmed and therefore not a threat but they also know that the average cop isn't armed so they won't hesitate to take them on.

[red states rule]

In my experience criminals know where the threat is from. That was my point about unarmed cops. Crooks know that ordinary folks are likely to be unarmed and therefore not a threat but they also know that the average cop isn't armed so they won't hesitate to take them on.

Sure they are not a threat. The crooks can rob, rape, and murder them without the fear of getting shot

[truthmatters]

4

[diuretic]

Sure they are not a threat. The crooks can rob, rape, and murder them without the fear of getting shot

Cops are best armed when responding to incidents such as robbery. Rape and murder are the type of incidents that cops respond to well after the event and when the suspect has left. But for robberies, given the sophisticated alarm equipment in place in most businesses, they should be armed. For me that's sufficient justification to arm cops.

[Trigg]

Pickaxe handles used to be the favoured weapon of blaggers ("blag" = violent robbery).

When we lived in New Orleans my husband had an axe handle with duck take rapped around one end, He called it his attitude adjuster.

[Trigg]

You weren't paying attention. The average person in the UK isn't directly threatened by organised criminals, it's not walking around in some cities in the US where you have to assume that every second person is packing. Firearms are part of a sub-culture, I gave you the example of Yardies. They tend to keep it to themselves.


Now this is overstating the problem a bit. There are some neighborhoods, in the cities, where you would assume people are carrying. Most people are well aware of where these places are able to avoid them.

Even when I'm in Chicago I don't walk around looking for people carrying, since I'm not strolling through Cabrini Green (black housing project). It's part of a sub-culture here also.

[Kathianne]

Now this is overstating the problem a bit. There are some neighborhoods, in the cities, where you would assume people are carrying. Most people are well aware of where these places are able to avoid them.

Even when I'm in Chicago I don't walk around looking for people carrying, since I'm not strolling through Cabrini Green (black housing project). It's part of a sub-culture here also.

Cabrini Green has been 'gone' for nearly 5 years. Your point stands though.

[Trigg]

Cabrini Green has been 'gone' for nearly 5 years. Your point stands though.

Ya, I know it isn't there anymore. I used it as an example though.

[diuretic]

When we lived in New Orleans my husband had an axe handle with duck take rapped around one end, He called it his attitude adjuster.

:laugh2:

I hope he never had to use it, but it's nice to know it's there ;)

[red states rule]

When we lived in New Orleans my husband had an axe handle with duck take rapped around one end, He called it his attitude adjuster.

:clap: