Brexit ...

[Drummond]

The UK is just one day away, as I type, from voting in a Referendum that'll decide its future, either within the EU, or outside it. We have our one opportunity to vote to exit from the EU, become our own nation once more ... to shake off all of Brussels' lawmaking and other edicts. To be free to choose our own trading opportunities with the rest of the world.

For that matter .. a 'Greece' - type financial disaster visited upon the EU in future either by Greece again, or a larger yet weak economy (such as from Portugal or Spain) could drag the UK down along with the collapse of the EU as a whole. We decide, if we do, to opt out of EU membership, and we've a good chance of surviving it with minimal financial damage.

Freedom, or eventual loss of freedom, subsumed within a far larger Federal structure ? Control of immigration, or to have the EU insist we keep our borders porous ? These are issues which we must now decide upon.

I want 'out', and as soon as possible. I believe in my nation. I believe we should rediscover pride in ourselves and work towards a bright future, one we make OURSELVES.

But if the polls are to be believed, a great many Brits disagree. The vote is on a knife-edge - it could go either way tomorrow (23rd June).

Thoughts, anyone .. ?

[darin]

Best example of what the EU is:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9037&d=1466581611

My heart is with you, D and the freedom-loving Brits. This also will set the path towards Western adoption of horrendous liberal/socialist ideals. If the Brits cannot escape the idiot masses, there is not much hope for the yanks.

[Noir]

The good news is that after tomorrow we'll stop being bombarded with every doomsday scenario imaginable.

[Drummond]

The good news is that after tomorrow we'll stop being bombarded with every doomsday scenario imaginable.

... yes ... like, 'Leaving the EU risks the demise of Western political civilisation'. Or, 'Our exit could one day cause WWIII ...'

And, Noir, I'm sure you know, as others here may well not, that these scaremongering claims actually have been made, during the campaign !! ...

If anyone thinks I'm joking ... see, for example ....

https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/news/76108/donald-tusk-brexit-could-bring-about-end-western


Donald Tusk, who was the key EU figure in the UK’s renegotiation process, told the German Bild newspaper a vote for Brexit could start of a series of “completely unpredictable” geopolitical events.

He said: “Not only economic implications will be negative for the UK, but first and foremost geopolitical.

“Do you know why these consequences are so dangerous? Because in the long-term they are completely unpredictable.

“As a historian, I am afraid this could in fact be the start of the process of destruction of not only the EU but also of the Western political civilisation.”

Mr Tusk argued that the EU’s “external enemies” would “open a bottle of champagne” in the event of a Brexit vote next week, while “radical anti-Europeans” in other member states would also be pleased.

Aside from the warning of a grave threat to global order, Mr Tusk also implicitly criticised the Conservatives for going ahead with the referendum ......

The EU is no fan of democratic process, nor yet of efforts made to win autonomy ...

[Noir]

Yep, that and all the rest. There is also the small hope that the likes of George Galloway will fade back into obscurity, but maybe I dream too great.

[CSM]

I have been watching this with great interest. The result will be even more interesting. Should the UK decide to remain in the EU, perhaps a revolution would be in order. If that happens, let us know. We can probably give you a few good tips on how to pull it off.

[Noir]

I have been watching this with great interest. The result will be even more interesting. Should the UK decide to remain in the EU, perhaps a revolution would be in order. If that happens, let us know. We can probably give you a few good tips on how to pull it off.

A revoultion against the will of the majority?

[darin]

A revoultion against the will of the majority?

If the will of the majority is tyranny and fascism, yes.

[CSM]

A revoultion against the will of the majority?

I forgot you Brits have no sense of humor...sorry.

[Noir]

If the will of the majority is tyranny and fascism, yes.

And you equate remaining in the EU with tyranny and fascism?

[darin]

And you equate remaining in the EU with tyranny and fascism?

Yeah. I think the EU leads to that because the EU already does that shit. I think those fleeing oppression through socialism/fascism - even those in the minority - must escape all forms. Including and especially the EU.

[Elessar]

A revoultion against the will of the majority?

Yet YOU preach about going against the will of the majority in the USA?

Give me a break!

[NightTrain]

The UK is just one day away, as I type, from voting in a Referendum that'll decide its future, either within the EU, or outside it. We have our one opportunity to vote to exit from the EU, become our own nation once more ... to shake off all of Brussels' lawmaking and other edicts. To be free to choose our own trading opportunities with the rest of the world.

For that matter .. a 'Greece' - type financial disaster visited upon the EU in future either by Greece again, or a larger yet weak economy (such as from Portugal or Spain) could drag the UK down along with the collapse of the EU as a whole. We decide, if we do, to opt out of EU membership, and we've a good chance of surviving it with minimal financial damage.

Freedom, or eventual loss of freedom, subsumed within a far larger Federal structure ? Control of immigration, or to have the EU insist we keep our borders porous ? These are issues which we must now decide upon.

I want 'out', and as soon as possible. I believe in my nation. I believe we should rediscover pride in ourselves and work towards a bright future, one we make OURSELVES.

But if the polls are to be believed, a great many Brits disagree. The vote is on a knife-edge - it could go either way tomorrow (23rd June).

Thoughts, anyone .. ?

I hope you guys get out of the EU and regain your national independence. That EU governing body has handed out some really unpalatable (to me, anyway) rulings, forcing entire nations to do their bidding whether or not they agree with the decision.

Another bonus is reducing Germany's influence upon other nations - Merkel is a loon and is destroying many hapless nations along with her merry band of idiots importing unvetted muslims by the millions.

[Gunny]

I hope you guys get out of the EU and regain your national independence. That EU governing body has handed out some really unpalatable (to me, anyway) rulings, forcing entire nations to do their bidding whether or not they agree with the decision.

Another bonus is reducing Germany's influence upon other nations - Merkel is a loon and is destroying many hapless nations along with her merry band of idiots importing unvetted muslims by the millions.

I got news for the scrawny little pup ... I'm half Scot half Brit. We may have had our differences in the past but that's my island and my heritage too. It disgusts me the way some of these people just lay down their arms and whine. If you told me when I was a kid the Brits would turn into whiny shits like Noir, I'd have laughed at you.

[Noir]

I'm half Scot half Brit...that's my island and my heritage too.

'half scot half brit' :laugh:
Sure thing bub, if you're going to talk about 'your island' then you might wana atleast get the terminology of your heritage right.

[Drummond]

And you equate remaining in the EU with tyranny and fascism?

... Er'm ... YES .... !! ....

[Gunny]

'half scot half brit' :laugh:
Sure thing bub, if you're going to talk about 'your island' then you might wana atleast get the terminology of your heritage right.

I've got it down perfectly thanks to my family. I'm a direct descendant of the Clan Lamont. Otherwise known as MacKerracher in Celtic.

The other side of my family's name is Adams. As in Samuel, John and John Q. Perhaps you may have heard of them.

As far as terminology goes, I've never heard a Scot themselves "Scottish". That's pudding to me. So maybe you ought to work a little on knowing WTF you're talking about? It REALLY sucks when you try to put someone down and you get schooled.

[Noir]

I've got it down perfectly thanks to my family. I'm a direct descendant of the Clan Lamont. Otherwise known as MacKerracher in Celtic.

The other side of my family's name is Adams. As in Samuel, John and John Q. Perhaps you may have heard of them.

As far as terminology goes, I've never heard a Scot themselves "Scottish". That's pudding to me. So maybe you ought to work a little on knowing WTF you're talking about? It REALLY sucks when you try to put someone down and you get schooled.

You know your talking to an American when they're 'half Scot half british' is all I'm sayin :laugh:

[CSM]

Is the UK free or is it still a minor state of the EU?

[Noir]

Is the UK free or is it still a minor state of the EU?

Voting is today (I've just been) given its likely to be a close vote we prob won't know for another 18-24 hours.

[Gunny]

You know your talking to an American when they're 'half Scot half british' is all I'm sayin :laugh:

Depends on who you're talking to. You hit someone from the upper Midwest they're mostly Eastern European. Slavic. You hit someone like me whose family is from Scotsborough ... you get a Scot.

Of course I'm an American. Damned proud to be one. Doesn't make my heritage disappear.

[CSM]

Voting is today (I've just been) given its likely to be a close vote we prob won't know for another 18-24 hours.

Thanks, Noir. I read some news stories that there were no exit polls by the media (a good thing, methinks) though there are some polls set up by private companies.

[Drummond]

Is the UK free or is it still a minor state of the EU?

Currently, it's a curious mix of both.

We make some of our laws. The EU makes others for us, which we're expected to incorporate into our system.

Immigration .. the EU has its 'porous borders' policy, permitting EU citizens totally unencumbered rights of movement between Member States. We're enough of a drone of the EU to be forced to go along with that ... regardless of our own considerations.

Today, Brexit could cure that, and wipe such interference from our shores. That is, if we've the backbone to shrug off the EU's trading 'comfort blanket' ... and reflect that with our voting.

[Bilgerat]

Currently, it's a curious mix of both.

We make some of our laws. The EU makes others for us, which we're expected to incorporate into our system.

Immigration .. the EU has its 'porous borders' policy, permitting EU citizens totally unencumbered rights of movement between Member States. We're enough of a drone of the EU to be forced to go along with that ... regardless of our own considerations.

Today, Brexit could cure that, and wipe such interference from our shores. That is, if we've the backbone to shrug off the EU's trading 'comfort blanket' ... and reflect that with our voting.

I follow a Brit who's the Senior Cruise Director for Carnival Cruise Lines. I want to quote him here


Off to another meeting now and army mind will wander to the UK where we are voting to be British Bulldogs or Brussels sprouts
Back soon

[Gunny]

Any news yet? I'd like to live vicariously through some people who can take their country back.

[Noir]

Any news yet? I'd like to live vicariously through some people who can take their country back.

The polls are still open for another 2 1/2 hours. There prob won't be any definitive news for a good 12-18 hours after polls close because it looks like it will be a close vote.

[Gunny]

The polls are still open for another 2 1/2 hours. There prob won't be any definitive news for a good 12-18 hours after polls close because it looks like it will be a close vote.

Thank you.

[gabosaurus]

Thank you.

I talked earlier with my best friend who now lives in England with his family. Her sister also lives there now and works in nearby pub.
According to her, the current mood of the people is "just give us the results and shut up. We're tired of it." :laugh:

[Noir]

Media reports that Remain seems to be edging the vote.
Scotland and Northern Ireland look almost certain to be voting Remain.

Given its its only a binary election they are expecting to have results quickly, as soon as 0400
hours (about 5 hours time).

Turnout looks high - Gibraltar are ready to report - expected to be remain by something like 85:15.

More interestingly the constituency of Sunderland which was expected to be a be close but favouring leave may have voted leave by as much as 65:35! Gonna be an interesting night.

[revelarts]

I have been watching this with great interest. The result will be even more interesting. Should the UK decide to remain in the EU, perhaps a revolution would be in order. If that happens, let us know. We can probably give you a few good tips on how to pull it off.


A revoultion against the will of the majority?


EU is Crap it's a stepping stone to world federalism. always has been.

Aim: less control for the local people, more control by the moneyed and well connected elite who think they know better.

[Noir]

Newcastle and Sunderland have reported.

Newcastle expected to to be strong remain, was a remain victory but only by less than 1%.
Sunderland was expect to be leave, the result has a leave victory by more than expected.

[Black Diamond]

EU is Crap it's a stepping stone to world federalism. always has been.

Aim: less control for the local people, more control by the moneyed and well connected elite who think they know better.

Yeah but with that comes the pain in the ass of countries who won't get their shit together dragging the entire group down.

[Noir]

About 16 million votes are needed for either side to win, with just over 2 million votes counted Leave are winning by about 150,000, still early in the count but the leave campaign seem to be edging out those extra percentage votes here and there and it's adding up...

[gabosaurus]

I'm amazed that they are estimating a 70 percent turnout of the electorate.

[Black Diamond]

They're leaving. Congratulations Drummond

[gabosaurus]

How will this impact the relationship between the Brits and countries not in the European Union?

[darin]

Good morning. In recent hours, Citizens across England with supporters around the world, set out on a quest for liberty. The English launched the largest voter battle in the history of European Union.

European Union -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today.

The English will no longer constrained by petty un-elected bureaucrats anymore.

They will be united in their common interests.

Perhaps its fate that we approach the 4th of July, because this time England fought for THEIR freedom. Freedom from Bureaucratic tyranny, Financial oppression, and 'progressive' persecution by 'though police'.

Brits voted for their right to live, to exist and Freedom won the day!

The 24th of June should be not just an English holiday, but as the day when the world heard, in one voice:

"We will not go quietly into the night!

We will not vanish without a fight!

We're going to live on!

We're going to survive!"

Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!

http://images.radiotimes.com/namedimage/Can_you_put_the_President_s_speech_in_Independence _Day_in_the_right_order_.jpg?quality=85&mode=crop&width=620&height=374&404=tv&url=/uploads/images/original/80297.jpg

[Noir]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/237E768E-F6A0-4808-B03E-7D4966E42781_zps2eiin2qi.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/jonathan-mcc/media/237E768E-F6A0-4808-B03E-7D4966E42781_zps2eiin2qi.jpg.html)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/FB0C518E-643D-4C08-8094-060BEBAD093D_zpse15firn6.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/jonathan-mcc/media/FB0C518E-643D-4C08-8094-060BEBAD093D_zpse15firn6.jpg.html)

[Gunny]

Good morning. In recent hours, Citizens across England with supporters around the world, set out on a quest for liberty. The English launched the largest voter battle in the history of European Union.

European Union -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today.

The English will no longer constrained by petty un-elected bureaucrats anymore.

They will be united in their common interests.

Perhaps its fate that we approach the 4th of July, because this time England fought for THEIR freedom. Freedom from Bureaucratic tyranny, Financial oppression, and 'progressive' persecution by 'though police'.

Brits voted for their right to live, to exist and Freedom won the day!

The 24th of June should be not just an English holiday, but as the day when the world heard, in one voice:

"We will not go quietly into the night!

We will not vanish without a fight!

We're going to live on!

We're going to survive!"

Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!

http://images.radiotimes.com/namedimage/Can_you_put_the_President_s_speech_in_Independence _Day_in_the_right_order_.jpg?quality=85&mode=crop&width=620&height=374&404=tv&url=/uploads/images/original/80297.jpg

Got to spread it around. That was good. :laugh:

[Drummond]

How will this impact the relationship between the Brits and countries not in the European Union?

I think they'll enjoy the enhanced trading opportunity it'll give them - simple.

[Gunny]

I think they'll enjoy the enhanced trading opportunity it'll give them - simple.

You going to paint your face blue and run around shouting "FREEDOM!"? Don't forget your kilt when you do. :laugh:

[Drummond]

Got to spread it around. That was good. :laugh:

Good one.

Anyway, the BREXIT vote succeeded - we voted to get out of the EU. Last I saw, with almost all areas having reported back, was that around 1 million more people voted for BREXIT than for the 'Remain' side. Something like a 2 percent lead of BREXIT over the REMAIN side.

No doubt Obama won't be delighted with our refusal to be bullied by him on this (he promised we'd go to the back of any trading queue if we voted 'out').

So, that's that. We've cut the umbilical cord. Not before time !!

Anyone posting any congratulations ... please accept my automatic 'THANKS' for it.

[Noir]

Cameron resigns, new Prime Minister by October.
Looks like i'ma spend my morning applying for an Irish passport :laugh:

[Gunny]

Good one.

Anyway, the BREXIT vote succeeded - we voted to get out of the EU. Last I saw, with almost all areas having reported back, was that around 1 million more people voted for BREXIT than for the 'Remain' side. Something like a 2 percent lead of BREXIT over the REMAIN side.

No doubt Obama won't be delighted with our refusal to be bullied by him on this (he promised we'd go to the back of any trading queue if we voted 'out').

So, that's that. We've cut the umbilical cord. Not before time !!

Anyone posting any congratulations ... please accept my automatic 'THANKS' for it.

Now see what y'all have done? Obama will be bitching on my TV again tomorrow. He was whining like a little bitch today about the Dems being blocked in Congress.

I'm glad y'all stood up. I've actually never considered Great Britain part of Europe.

[DLT]

The UK is just one day away, as I type, from voting in a Referendum that'll decide its future, either within the EU, or outside it. We have our one opportunity to vote to exit from the EU, become our own nation once more ... to shake off all of Brussels' lawmaking and other edicts. To be free to choose our own trading opportunities with the rest of the world.

For that matter .. a 'Greece' - type financial disaster visited upon the EU in future either by Greece again, or a larger yet weak economy (such as from Portugal or Spain) could drag the UK down along with the collapse of the EU as a whole. We decide, if we do, to opt out of EU membership, and we've a good chance of surviving it with minimal financial damage.

Freedom, or eventual loss of freedom, subsumed within a far larger Federal structure ? Control of immigration, or to have the EU insist we keep our borders porous ? These are issues which we must now decide upon.

I want 'out', and as soon as possible. I believe in my nation. I believe we should rediscover pride in ourselves and work towards a bright future, one we make OURSELVES.

But if the polls are to be believed, a great many Brits disagree. The vote is on a knife-edge - it could go either way tomorrow (23rd June).

Thoughts, anyone .. ?

Kudos to the UK re: your escape to freedom from the NWO globalist conglomeration....run by aholes like Soros & Co. Yesterday truly was the UK's Independence Day. It may be a bumpy ride and transition, but you are to be applauded for your courage to stand up and demand what is right and good for your nation.....ie a mandate against the ongoing suicide-by-immigration that the globalists were trying to foist upon you.

[DLT]

Best example of what the EU is:

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9037&d=1466581611

My heart is with you, D and the freedom-loving Brits. This also will set the path towards Western adoption of horrendous liberal/socialist ideals. If the Brits cannot escape the idiot masses, there is not much hope for the yanks.

And now.....there is hope, after all.

[DLT]

... yes ... like, 'Leaving the EU risks the demise of Western political civilisation'. Or, 'Our exit could one day cause WWIII ...'

And, Noir, I'm sure you know, as others here may well not, that these scaremongering claims actually have been made, during the campaign !! ...

If anyone thinks I'm joking ... see, for example ....

https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/news/76108/donald-tusk-brexit-could-bring-about-end-western



The EU is no fan of democratic process, nor yet of efforts made to win autonomy ...


Aside from the warning of a grave threat to global order, Mr Tusk also implicitly criticised the Conservatives for going ahead with the referendum ......

More like.....a grave threat to the globalists' order. And to that I say.....hurrah! They should be threatened....

good and hard.

[CSM]

Cameron resigns, new Prime Minister by October.
Looks like i'ma spend my morning applying for an Irish passport :laugh:

I hear that Canada is the place to go for those who feel disenfranchised by an election or dodging a military draft.

[Noir]

I hear that Canada is the place to go for those who feel disenfranchised by an election or dodging a military draft.

Well their climates nice and cold, and they do have ice hockey...but who could put up with those accents, eh?

[CSM]

Well their climates nice and cold, and they do have ice hockey...but who could put up with those accents, eh?

and they have BACON!!!

[Bilgerat]

Well their climates nice and cold, and they do have ice hockey...but who could put up with those accents, eh?



and they have BACON!!!


But they have some great beer!

[Gunny]

But they have some great beer!

I'll have to argue with you on that one. The only thing good that comes out of Mexico is Corona. Canadian beer sucks. I forget which port we were in but I got stuck drinking Victoria Bitters. I think it's Aussie beer. Nasty crap. San Miguel or Tiger beer was better. I rarely drink beer anymore, but if I do (most important man in the world here :laugh: ) It's Corona, Dos Equis or Sol. I can't drink domestic or European beer. Blah.

[DLT]

I think they'll enjoy the enhanced trading opportunity it'll give them - simple.

Drummond.....why, in your opinion, are most Scots for staying in the EU? Looks like they will now push for a break from the UK. To that, do you say "good riddance"? Or no. Just curious.

[Gunny]

Drummond.....why, in your opinion, are most Scots for staying in the EU? Looks like they will now push for a break from the UK. To that, do you say "good riddance"? Or no. Just curious.

I was wondering about that one myself. You have to know their history and yes, I AM going out on a limb here. Lowland Scots have always controlled the government since Lord knows when. They're the ones that sold Wallace out to the Brits. But, Lowland Scots have always sold out to the highest bidder. They're in it for title, land and money.

So I'd be interest to hear Drummond 's take on it.

[CSM]

I wonder if any other countries will follow UK's lead and drop out of EU.... Isn't Germany essentially the big gun in EU now? What country thinks that will work out well for them without the UK in the mix?

[DLT]

I wonder if any other countries will follow UK's lead and drop out of EU.... Isn't Germany essentially the big gun in EU now? What country thinks that will work out well for them without the UK in the mix?

Italy and France, perhaps?


In fact, a poll from IPSOS released in May showed that there are a handful of countries with about half of their population ready for a U.K.-like referendum.

As shown in the chart below, 58 percent of Italians surveyed said they wanted to hold a referendum — although slightly less than half said they'd ultimately vote to leave the EU. For its part, France had similar results.


http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/world-news/brexit-hereother-eu-countries-that-poll-high-to-exit_6925021.html

[CSM]

Italy and France, perhaps?

Given that the polls were full of crap (indicating the UK would not leave the EU) one has to wonder how reliable they are regarding Italy and France.

[DLT]

Given that the polls were full of crap (indicating the UK would not leave the EU) one has to wonder how reliable they are regarding Italy and France.

About as reliable as they are here.....ie not much. Leftists have taken over the media AND the polls.

[Abbey Marie]

Drummond.....why, in your opinion, are most Scots for staying in the EU? Looks like they will now push for a break from the UK. To that, do you say "good riddance"? Or no. Just curious.

Looking forward to Drummond's informed answer, but anecdotally, I have a few Scot friends who live here, and they are super liberal.

[Drummond]

You going to paint your face blue and run around shouting "FREEDOM!"? Don't forget your kilt when you do. :laugh:

I prefer red, white and blue, wearing a bowler hat ...

But, hey, this is all bloody marvellous !! Pity about poor, pissed-off Cameron, who lost no time in indulging in a pathetic (if dramatic) 'sulk'. As our elected PM, he surely had a duty to respect the will of the People and continue on, serving the new political direction we're embarking on .. one which, after all, HE ARRANGED FOR US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, by permitting the Referendum in the first place !!!

No - apparently, his preferences override all of ours, but knowing he can't prevail with them, he's sulking rather than show us respect we are due !! And he resigned very quickly after the BREXIT victory was plain to see.

[Noir]

I prefer red, white and blue, wearing a bowler hat ...

But, hey, this is all bloody marvellous !! Pity about poor, pissed-off Cameron, who lost no time in indulging in a pathetic (if dramatic) 'sulk'. As our elected PM, he surely had a duty to respect the will of the People and continue on, serving the new political direction we're embarking on .. one which, after all, HE ARRANGED FOR US TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, by permitting the Referendum in the first place !!!

No - apparently, his preferences override all of ours, but knowing he can't prevail with them, he's sulking rather than show us respect we are due !! And he resigned very quickly after the BREXIT victory was plain to see.

I'm sure as dandy no fan of Cameron, but I think it makes sense that if we are to follow this through, then it should be a 'Brexiter' lead government doing so.

[Drummond]

Looking forward to Drummond's informed answer, but anecdotally, I have a few Scot friends who live here, and they are super liberal.

Well ... I can't speak to how comprehensive an answer this is. But one difference is very plain. Scotland is ruled, currently, by the SNP .. who gained a massive majority for themselves in the last election. People, there - curiously - are simultaneously inclined to defy the will of the English, be 'proud Scots' ... & with an agenda in mind to rejoin the EU bureaucratic colossus at the earliest opportunity !

If you can make sense of a Nationalistic Party that wants its independence from the UK, yet yearns for being subsumed by an entity like the EU .. you're doing better than I am.

But I think I can offer a clue as to the origin of such madness.

Yes .. the SNP are ... wait for it .... LEFTIES !!! ....

You say it yourself - Scot friends you know are 'super liberal'. Quite. The SNP is a total contradiction, but as it's Leftie, the madness isn't too baffling.

I could hope for sanity from them, but I repeat, they're Lefties. So ... 'Good Riddance' seems the right response. And I wish them joy in getting the EU to look upon them favourably ... there's been a debate about whether Scotland as an independent entity would be forced to reapply for membership (which they're far from certain of getting) .. and I think consensus ended up saying that YES, they'd need to do that.

[Drummond]

I'm sure as dandy no fan of Cameron, but I think it makes sense that if we are to follow this through, then it should be a 'Brexiter' lead government doing so.

Perhaps you're right. But I don't much care. Cameron arranged our chance of a Referendum vote in the first place, then when electioneering about it began in earnest, he pulled out all the stops for a 'Remain' victory. OK .. he had the right to do that. Nonetheless, having arranged the vote, he should've abided by it once we knew what it was.

A PM - so they say - is supposed to be a servant of the people who he represents ? An elected high official, there to do his job in serving UK residents to the best of his ability, then, when things don't go the way HE thinks they should have, he goes and sulks ... throws in the towel !!

The man's a disgrace.

[aboutime]

CONGRATULATIONS....SIR DRUMMOND! Now, the rest of the chips will begin to fall, and you Brits will finally begin to get your SOVEREIGN NATION back.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::cl ap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[gabosaurus]

My best friend's husband works on the docks in Liverpool, doing boat inspections and other such things. He reported that, among marines crews and other such workers, Brits are now almost as popular as Syrian refugees and Islamic terrorists.
Not sure what that is all about since I don't live there. But it doesn't sound positive.

[namvet]

I guess this mean's Soro's plan for world domination got flushed

[DLT]

I guess this mean's Soro's plan for world domination got flushed

No. Not flushed. Just a temporary setback....from which I'm sure Soros still managed to make millions off of. He got filthy rich off of going negative....typical liberal/leftist style.

[jimnyc]

The good news is that after tomorrow we'll stop being bombarded with every doomsday scenario imaginable.


Cameron resigns, new Prime Minister by October.
Looks like i'ma spend my morning applying for an Irish passport :laugh:

Is that your doomsday scenario? :laugh: Are you moving? Where to? Grab your family and come to the states. :)

[Noir]

Is that your doomsday scenario? :laugh: Are you moving? Where to? Grab your family and come to the states. :)

Im nay moving, just travel within Europe will be more hassle free on an EU passport.

Trufax the local passport office ran out of Itish Passport application forms so have to wait to next week, looks like many have the same idea lul.

[jimnyc]

Britain’s vote for freedom proves power is with the people

As the Brexit results poured in, I caught myself humming a tune from Broadway’s “Hamilton.” The song follows the decisive Battle of Yorktown in 1781, after which the Redcoats surrender and America is free. It’s called a drinking song, and there’s not much to it except these words: “The world turned upside down.”

It certainly has. The world is also coming full circle because now it’s the Brits who are free. It took them a while, but they finally had their own Tea Party and their own revolution.

.....

It took a revolution because the leaders of both of Britain’s major political parties united in opposition to change, with the pooh-bahs and grandees trying to scare voters into sticking with the status quo. Naturally, the establishment media lectured the rubes on what was good for them.

Sound familiar, America?

Not surprisingly, Donald Trump encouraged and celebrated British independence, declaring that voters “took their country back.” Stuck on the wrong side of history, President Obama and Hillary Clinton acted as if their dogs died.

.....

Elitists of both parties try to silence Trump by accusing him of “hate speech” for demanding that America control its borders and enforce its immigration laws. Similarly, Johnson was greeted with calls of “racist scum” first thing in the morning.

Johnson, potentially the next prime minister, committed the crime of suggesting that Great Britain would be greater outside the suffocating embrace of European Union bureaucrats. He favors a liberated country that can make its own laws and decisions, and put its own people first.

While not carbon copies of Trump’s rallying cries of “Make America Great Again” and “America First,” the sentiments come damn close. As does the growing fear in both countries that distant, self-serving governments are slaves to political correctness and are not doing enough to stop Islamist terrorists.

To be clear, Trump and Johnson are not sainted men of unquestioned virtue. Rather, they are leaders speaking on behalf of millions upon millions of middle- and working-class people who feel left out of the globalized economy.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/24/brexit-strengthens-global-effort-to-unseat-unresponsive-elites/

[Drummond]

CONGRATULATIONS....SIR DRUMMOND! Now, the rest of the chips will begin to fall, and you Brits will finally begin to get your SOVEREIGN NATION back.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::cl ap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


Post very appreciated - thanks !! :clap::clap::clap:

[Drummond]

Our Lefties don't accept defeat at all easily. If you can believe it, there's now a petition to try and get a SECOND Referendum vote, in the hope of overturning the result of the first one !!

Heading (as I type) for three MILLION signatures .. see ....

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/

If democratic process doesn't yield the result you hope for ... then try, try, try again, until it does ! The point apparently is that only the 'right kind of voting' is acceptable to some people.

And considering the wording of the petition ... there's surely room for a theoretical (at least) third, fourth or fifth Referendum ... !!

[Noir]

Our Lefties don't accept defeat at all easily.

And our righties ain't exactly accepting victory either, have you ever seen Borris so subdued? Honestly I think it's possible that after all this the Conservative party kinda flop about a bit, indulge in a bit of in-fighting, and don't follow through with enacting article 50 at all.

[Drummond]

And our righties ain't exactly accepting victory either, have you ever seen Borris so subdued? Honestly I think it's possible that after all this the Conservative party kinda flop about a bit, indulge in a bit of in-fighting, and don't follow through with enacting article 50 at all.

Ridiculous. I believe Article 50 will be invoked. It might take a while - possibly - but it'll happen.

I don't believe Boris (please get the spelling right, at least) IS subdued. He might be trying to recover from a celebratory hangover or 2.

[Gunny]

Ridiculous. I believe Article 50 will be invoked. It might take a while - possibly - but it'll happen.

I don't believe Boris (please get the spelling right, at least) IS subdued. He might be trying to recover from a celebratory hangover or 2.

Okay you two Limey's :laugh: explain Article 50.

[Noir]

Okay you two Limey's :laugh: explain Article 50.

Its the get out clause of the EU, once set in motion the UK will leave the EU in two years.


Ridiculous. I believe Article 50 will be invoked. It might take a while - possibly - but it'll happen.

I don't believe Boris (please get the spelling right, at least) IS subdued. He might be trying to recover from a celebratory hangover or 2.

Maybe so, I just would of expected Leave to of been riding high on a wave of success, not telling people that it's not time to enact the mechanism by which we are to leave. They are also (rightly) taking a hammering over their £350 million a week funding the NHS claim, which has taken a fair bit of wind outa their sails.

[Gunny]

Its the get out clause of the EU, once set in motion the UK will leave the EU in two years.



Maybe so, I just would of expected Leave to of been riding high on a wave of success, not telling people that it's not time to enact the mechanism by which we are to leave. They are also (rightly) taking a hammering over their £350 million a week funding the NHS claim, which has taken a fair bit of wind outa their sails.

Just as an aside, do you know where the term "limey" comes from? Don't cheat and look it up.

[Noir]

Just as an aside, do you know where the term "limey" comes from? Don't cheat and look it up.

Back in ye olde days when voyages across the seas would require large stockpiles of lemons/limes for there vitamins etc? Nay sure if that's just a convenient and believable myth or not.

Also so it's really fun to throw limes at English people so could be that too.

[Gunny]

Back in ye olde days when voyages across the seas would require large stockpiles of lemons/limes for there vitamins etc? Nay sure if that's just a convenient and believable myth or not.

Also so it's really fun to throw limes at English people so could be that too.

You are correct. It was to prevent scurvy which was caused by a lack of vitamin C. It is not a myth.

And FYI, I'm probably more versed in English lit and history than you.

[Noir]

You are correct. It was to prevent scurvy which was caused by a lack of vitamin C. It is not a myth.

And FYI, I'm probably more versed in English lit and history than you.

Sure, quite possibly, I'm not going to make assumptions about your knowledge of English lit & history, but I do think it odd you would make those same assumptions of myself.

[Gunny]

Sure, quite possibly, I'm not going to make assumptions about your knowledge of English lit & history, but I do think it odd you would make those same assumptions of myself.

I don't assume anything. If you noticed, I asked a question. I'll be the first to tell you I don't understand your politics. I rarely comment on them. All I can really tell is you and Drummond are on opposite political sides, and both of you tend to judge US politics by UK definitions. The definitions are not the same.

As far as I go, you work on your reading people skills. I'm easy to figure out. I rarely assume. It gets people killed. I read what YOU write and use your words against you. I use what is there. I don't have much of an imagination.

[DLT]

Our Lefties don't accept defeat at all easily. If you can believe it, there's now a petition to try and get a SECOND Referendum vote, in the hope of overturning the result of the first one !!

Heading (as I type) for three MILLION signatures .. see ....

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/

If democratic process doesn't yield the result you hope for ... then try, try, try again, until it does ! The point apparently is that only the 'right kind of voting' is acceptable to some people.

And considering the wording of the petition ... there's surely room for a theoretical (at least) third, fourth or fifth Referendum ... !!

If you have read the comments on most of the articles about that "do over" ....there is much derision towards those lefties....and even some comparison between the UK sore losers and those here in the states. I guess lefties are the same everywhere. And yeah, we have some Al Gores here that would, if they could, keep counting until they get the result they want. It's how Al Franken became a senator (most recent example).

If they allow those 2-3 million to overturn the "leave" referendum decided by a legal vote, then voting really means nothing in the UK .....just as it's looking like it means nothing here in the states. I liken the UK's decision to leave the EU to the same 'enough of this refugee immigration BS' that we're enduring here in the US. Our rebellion has yet to come. But when it comes, it will be spectacular.

[Noir]

If you have read the comments on most of the articles about that "do over" ....there is much derision towards those lefties....and even some comparison between the UK sore losers and those here in the states. I guess lefties are the same everywhere. And yeah, we have some Al Gores here that would, if they could, keep counting until they get the result they want. It's how Al Franken became a senator (most recent example).

If they allow those 2-3 million to overturn the "leave" referendum decided by a legal vote, then voting really means nothing in the UK .....just as it's looking like it means nothing here in the states. I liken the UK's decision to leave the EU to the same 'enough of this refugee immigration BS' that we're enduring here in the US. Our rebellion has yet to come. But when it comes, it will be spectacular.

The irony being that the 're-do the referendum' petition was made by a leave supporter when it looked like the leave side were not going to win the vote, lul.

[jimnyc]

The irony being that the 're-do the referendum' petition was made by a leave supporter when it looked like the leave side were not going to win the vote, lul.

He/they too would have been dumbasses if they tried to use a petition to null the vote and have a do-over of sorts.

At any rate, here's an article about what you speak of exactly:

Brexit: Petition calling for second EU vote was created by Leave backer

LONDON (CNN) -- An online petition signed by more than 3 million people calling for a second referendum on whether Britain should leave the EU was started by a Leave campaigner who says it has been "hijacked" by unhappy Remain voters.

The petition, which has attracted more than 3,234,000 signatures in the wake of Britain's shock vote to leave the European Union last Thursday, calls for a second referendum on the issue if the result is less than decisive.

Another referendum should be held, it says, "if the remain or leave vote is less than 60 percent based a turnout less than 75 percent." In a startling result, the Leave campaign won Thursday's referendum with 52% of the vote, with 72% of voters turning out.

Disappointed voters have flocked to sign the petition in the wake of the vote, crashing the official UK government website on at least one occasion and generating more signatures than on any other petition on the site.

But the surge in interest has prompted its creator, William Oliver Healey, to speak out, saying that he in fact he had actively supported the Leave campaign, and had created the petition "with the intention of making it harder for 'remain' to further shackle us to the EU."

Creator: Petition 'hijacked'

Healey, an activist for the English Democrats -- a fringe, nationalist political party -- wrote on Facebook Sunday that he had created the petition "when it was looking unlikely that 'leave' were going to win." The petition had since been "hijacked by the remain campaign," he wrote.

http://www.kitv.com/story/32309545/brexit-petition-calling-for-second-eu-vote-was-created-by-leave-backer

[Gunny]

If you have read the comments on most of the articles about that "do over" ....there is much derision towards those lefties....and even some comparison between the UK sore losers and those here in the states. I guess lefties are the same everywhere. And yeah, we have some Al Gores here that would, if they could, keep counting until they get the result they want. It's how Al Franken became a senator (most recent example).

If they allow those 2-3 million to overturn the "leave" referendum decided by a legal vote, then voting really means nothing in the UK .....just as it's looking like it means nothing here in the states. I liken the UK's decision to leave the EU to the same 'enough of this refugee immigration BS' that we're enduring here in the US. Our rebellion has yet to come. But when it comes, it will be spectacular.

Since when does the left ever quit? That's the one thing you can say about them; albeit, for the wrong reasons. They do it here. They just don't stop. I'd rather have fire ants in my yard. If the scales in the Supreme Court tip their way? Plan on them going after the 2nd yet again.

[Elessar]

Since when does the left ever quit? That's the one thing you can say about them; albeit, for the wrong reasons. They do it here. They just don't stop. I'd rather have fire ants in my yard. If the scales in the Supreme Court tip their way? Plan on them going after the 2nd yet again.

You can bank on that, as well as them further eroding the 1st!

[Drummond]

A couple of developments to report.

The petition designed to set the stage for a second Referendum turns out to be questionable, in terms of the TRUE support it represents.

See ....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/concern-as-online-call-for-second-brexit-vote-gains-more-than-39/

Parliamentary authorities have removed around 77,000 allegedly fake signatures from an online petition which calls for a re-run of the Brexit referendum - with hackers taking responsibility for adding thousands of counterfeit names.

It follows a formal inquiry launched less than three hours earlier, amid claims some of the more than three million signatures it has gained since Friday may be fraudulent.

A statement posted on the House of Commons' petitions committee Twitter account on Sunday afternoon said: "We are investigating allegations of fraudulent use of the petitions site. Signatures found to be fraudulent will be removed".[/quote]

As for the other ... the SNP (Scottish Nationalist Party, Leftie in its leanings) want to try and veto the Brexit process themselves ... kill off its viability. Their argument is that Brexit was not voted for within Scottish borders, therefore, Scotland cannot expect to be dragged down any Brexit route. And since they still are a part of the UK, they should have (or at least try to press for) the means / opportunity of veto for the UK as a whole ...

See ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244


Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that Holyrood could try to block the UK's exit from the EU.

She was speaking following a referendum on Thursday which saw Britain vote by 52% to 48% to leave Europe.

However, in Scotland the picture was different with 62% backing Remain and 38% wanting to go.

SNP leader Ms Sturgeon said that "of course" she would ask MSPs to refuse to give their "legislative consent".

It could be argued - it is already being argued - that, if it came to a constitutional battle, Westminster would have the final say.

Holyrood might withhold consent for the legislative moves to implement Brexit.

Westminster might note such a verdict, no doubt with polite gratitude - then proceed to implement Brexit, exercising its over-riding sovereignty.

These Lefties will try their damndest to defy any political direction they don't approve of .. they're shameless in their efforts. No matter how outrageous they are .....

[Drummond]

http://www.debatepolicy.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9040&stc=1

[Atticus Finch]

it's funny how progressives preach diversity but are ready at anytime to centralize everything under one authority.

[aboutime]

In layman's terms, even the most uneducated, and uninformed should understand.

What took place in the U.K. was more of an example of how the EU, and Brussels have taken over all of the member nations of the E.U.

In other words...it would have been almost identical to someone in Europe, coming to the United States, and going to either the Capitol, or 1600 Pennsylvania ave...where CONGRESS, and the PRESIDENT would be told THEY NO LONGER HAVE ANY POWER over the nation, or WE THE PEOPLE.

Everything we, AS AMERICANS would do, would then be fully controlled by the E.U., and our Constitution would be ELIMINATED, WITH ALL OF OUR RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, AND LIBERTIES.

[Atticus Finch]

In layman's terms, even the most uneducated, and uninformed should understand.

What took place in the U.K. was more of an example of how the EU, and Brussels have taken over all of the member nations of the E.U.

In other words...it would have been almost identical to someone in Europe, coming to the United States, and going to either the Capitol, or 1600 Pennsylvania ave...where CONGRESS, and the PRESIDENT would be told THEY NO LONGER HAVE ANY POWER over the nation, or WE THE PEOPLE.

Everything we, AS AMERICANS would do, would then be fully controlled by the E.U., and our Constitution would be ELIMINATED, WITH ALL OF OUR RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, AND LIBERTIES.The UN comes to mind..or G20

[aboutime]

The UN comes to mind..or G20


Exactly! And many veterans, or those still on active duty who were told to wear BLUE helmets back in the 90's, understand. AMERICANS only follow American Laws, and American Military rules while on duty. The EU was established to eventually create a United States of EUROPE...and we see how bad that turned out.

[Drummond]

My best friend's husband works on the docks in Liverpool, doing boat inspections and other such things. He reported that, among marines crews and other such workers, Brits are now almost as popular as Syrian refugees and Islamic terrorists.
Not sure what that is all about since I don't live there. But it doesn't sound positive.

It sounds typical of Leftie lunacy. Liverpool has a bad reputation for its Leftieness, ever since they first gave such support to Derek Hatton, decades ago (a Leftie militant).

[Gunny]

You can bank on that, as well as them further eroding the 1st!

What I don't get is they'll riot, vandalize, and generally be violent here. to protest being violent over THERE. They whine and cry about everything.

Look at THIS crap? We lost so that vote didn't count and we want another. Freakin' whiners. Geez. You lost. Get over it. I remember when I used to play sports daily and there was always this one crybaby that would call foul if he missed. I would be like, there's nobody within 5 feet of your ass. Who fouled you? God?

Same with lifting weights. I was a powerlifter. You know how many times I missed a lift compared to getting it? It's like baseball. If you're batting 300 (30%), you're doing good. Kickboxing and /or karate same thing. I can just see my sensei now if I started whining about losing a match. He'd kick my ass too. :laugh:

These morons need to quit their crying and move on. And you'd think our baby-ass President lived in the UK the way he's going on. Can't handle the Middle East but you can stick your nose in business that doesn't concern you? He and Cameron should do a joint resignation effective yesterday.

[Gunny]

Exactly! And many veterans, or those still on active duty who were told to wear BLUE helmets back in the 90's, understand. AMERICANS only follow American Laws, and American Military rules while on duty. The EU was established to eventually create a United States of EUROPE...and we see how bad that turned out.

I'd have gone the way the LT did. I ain't wearing that f-ing blue helmet. My contract says " I do solemnly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States". It didn't say anything about running around Europe with a baby blue target on my grape and a French commander. Screw THAT noise.

I'm tring to remember (been more than 20 years) but IIRC he was a National Guard LT. I think he got court-martialed, but he stood his ground.

[Noir]

To add to the calamity, Tory leaders have started putting their hats in the race to become the next Prime Minister, Boris was expected, but Gove has given Boris the old stab in the back and thrown his name in (reports that he gave 5 mins warning via text lol) then you also have the likes of May, who has just decided that she doesn't want to repeal the ECHR at all. Good times...

[Drummond]

To add to the calamity, Tory leaders have started putting their hats in the race to become the next Prime Minister, Boris was expected, but Gove has given Boris the old stab in the back and thrown his name in (reports that he gave 5 mins warning via text lol) then you also have the likes of May, who has just decided that she doesn't want to repeal the ECHR at all. Good times...

I wouldn't worry about 'May', Noir. A Conservative Party unwilling to learn the lesson of Brexit reaps the consequences.

I'm betting on a Boris or Gove win, myself.

.. but, heyy. The way Labour is falling apart, thanks to Corbyn's insatiable lust for power ... clinging on to a job he's increasingly unable to do, because people keep on resigning !!

Even a no confidence motion, one passing with a thumping great majority against him, STILL doesn't affect him ... !!! ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458


A motion of no confidence in Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has been passed by the party's MPs.

The 172-40 vote, which is not binding, follows resignations from the shadow cabinet and calls on Mr Corbyn to quit.

Mr Corbyn said the ballot had "no constitutional legitimacy" and said he would not "betray" the members who voted for him by resigning.

The leader's allies have told his critics to trigger a formal leadership contest if they want to challenge him.

Opponents of Mr Corbyn are meeting to decide what to do next and whether to rally round a single candidate to put up against him, with names in the frame including former frontbenchers Angela Eagle and Yvette Cooper.

The BBC's political correspondent Iain Watson said they still hoped Mr Corbyn would step down voluntarily.

Now, there is a Leftie in love with power ... and democracy be damned ... !!

[Noir]

I wouldn't worry about 'May', Noir. A Conservative Party unwilling to learn the lesson of Brexit reaps the consequences.

I'm betting on a Boris or Gove win, myself.

Well it won't be Boris, after the knife was stuck in by Gove, Boris has announced he's not standing for leader. Very odd.


.. but, heyy. The way Labour is falling apart, thanks to Corbyn's insatiable lust for power ... clinging on to a job he's increasingly unable to do, because people keep on resigning !!

Even a no confidence motion, one passing with a thumping great majority against him, STILL doesn't affect him ... !!! ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36647458



Now, there is a Leftie in love with power ... and democracy be damned ... !!

Corbyn is a weird one, extremely popular at the base level, hated at the parliamentary level, one wonders what the party will do if the PLP chose him over any other candidate at a leadership election again...

[Nonnie]

Voting is never rational.

Glad we're leaving Europe but I would prefer someone in office who has the balls to sort it out and get article 50 signed, but sadly, Thatcher died.

With all the refugee problems, the EU are concerned about my hoover and toaster. Idiots, complete and utter 'un-elected' idiots.

Europe will want to trade with us, we import more. Slap tariffs on, then it makes economic sense to manufacture here.

If Toyota and Nissan want to leave, good riddance, try to sell cars back to us, they're slapped with a tariff.

[Noir]

and the Brexit leaders are currently doing...not much of anything, talk about a damp squib.

[revelarts]

I'm anti-globalist so I'm for brexit.
even though it seems the "leadership" doesn't have it's act together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XumrD3ET3Sg

[Drummond]

and the Brexit leaders are currently doing...not much of anything, talk about a damp squib.

For once we have a measure of agreement. What we see may, or may not (depends on what's going on behind the scenes ?) be the inaction it appears to be. Still, IF the inaction is exactly that, it's very annoying. Brexit is a 'done deal', in terms of what's been voted on. It should be progressing on to its conclusion.

[Noir]

I'm anti-globalist so I'm for brexit.
even though it seems the "leadership" doesn't have it's act together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XumrD3ET3Sg

+1, I have no love for the EU, but the campaign run for leaving it was pretty poor (not that the one for staying was much better). The campaign itself was a huge warning flag for what we have now - a victorious side that isn't really doing anything.

[fj1200]

Voting is never rational.

Glad we're leaving Europe but I would prefer someone in office who has the balls to sort it out and get article 50 signed, but sadly, Thatcher died.

With all the refugee problems, the EU are concerned about my hoover and toaster. Idiots, complete and utter 'un-elected' idiots.

Europe will want to trade with us, we import more. Slap tariffs on, then it makes economic sense to manufacture here.

If Toyota and Nissan want to leave, good riddance, try to sell cars back to us, they're slapped with a tariff.

Why do you want to make your fellow citizens pay more for cars?

[Drummond]

+1, I have no love for the EU, but the campaign run for leaving it was pretty poor (not that the one for staying was much better). The campaign itself was a huge warning flag for what we have now - a victorious side that isn't really doing anything.

Theresa May, our current Prime Minister, therefore the most senior politician taking responsibility for Brexit in the UK, was a 'REMAIN' supporter. Your 'victorious side' - if the Conservative Party - was a Party wanting us to REMAIN in Europe.

[Did you not receive their literature on the subject, begging us all to vote 'Remain'.. ? That was supposed to be delivered to all UK households ...]

The 'side' apparently (though, how do we tell ??) 'not doing anything' is under pro-REMAIN leadership, Noir. However .. they have the democratic vote of Brexit to honour. This - albeit VERY slowly !!! - is what they're pledged to do.

[Noir]

Theresa May, our current Prime Minister, therefore the most senior politician taking responsibility for Brexit in the UK, was a 'REMAIN' supporter. Your 'victorious side' - if the Conservative Party - was a Party wanting us to REMAIN in Europe.

[Did you not receive their literature on the subject, begging us all to vote 'Remain'.. ? That was supposed to be delivered to all UK households ...]

The 'side' apparently (though, how do we tell ??) 'not doing anything' is under pro-REMAIN leadership, Noir. However .. they have the democratic vote of Brexit to honour. This - albeit VERY slowly !!! - is what they're pledged to do.

Indeed, after Brexit champions Johnston and Gove put up such a fight to try and get into No. 10...

The farce is being exposed for the farce it was, but atleast we tanked the pound in the process.

[Drummond]

Indeed, after Brexit champions Johnston and Gove put up such a fight to try and get into No. 10...

The farce is being exposed for the farce it was, but atleast we tanked the pound in the process.

Well ... I wonder.

If this Referendum was / is a total farce, then people such as Theresa May would've seized on the chance to weaken or nullify the vote's worth. Instead, she's said repeatedly that the decision WILL be honoured.

I think the only real issue is just when it will be. Perhaps May is dragging this out. Or, maybe negotiation preparations which we aren't privy to have to be undergone first, and it all only APPEARS that Brexit is slowed to a crawl. Bear in mind that until we leave the EU, we're tied into it, this legally preventing our entering into independent trade agreements with other nations .. AND .. we still have the 'freedoms of movement of people' issue to resolve.

Juncker has tried to torpedo any likelihood of evading the continued movement of EU citizens into the UK - surely, proof of their determination to work against our interests, as a HOSTILE power would do ? In fact, I'd say his position absolutely shows us that the pro-Brexit vote was the only just one we could have voted for.

We will get there in the end, Noir .. a prosperous UK (whatever precisely the UK ultimately turns out to be) ... and one which I strongly suspect will be left with no choice but to abandon the EU at all levels of trade. Which I think will work out fine, by the way, even if it does take time to arrange.

[Noir]

Looks like another set back for Brexit, as the Supreme Court has reminded the Government that parliament is sovereign, and that leaving the EU should be put to parliamentary scrutiny.
If this goes to parliament Brexit is dead.

Also Drummond have you tried traveling recently? We're going to Dublin in the Spring and the pound is so weak it's painful.

[Drummond]

Looks like another set back for Brexit, as the Supreme Court has reminded the Government that parliament is sovereign, and that leaving the EU should be put to parliamentary scrutiny.
If this goes to parliament Brexit is dead.

Also Drummond have you tried traveling recently? We're going to Dublin in the Spring and the pound is so weak it's painful.

I have to reluctantly agree with you. Though Brexit isn't necessarily 'dead', I do believe it's been dealt a body blow with this latest mind-boggling example of judicial stupidity.

The Labour Party never wanted to give the People a Referendum in the first place. Now one's taken place, they've been looking for ways to undermine it (.. well, of course they have ... because Lefties want to rule people, not listen to their wishes ..). Today's High Court decision might give them the wrecking edge they've been seeking.

Having a Government charged with taking us out of the EU, then robbing them of the extent of autonomy they need to act with authority in doing so, reduces the whole thing to a farce.

And, Noir, I suggest something worse still ... that the British people will realise - IF this isn't reversed - that Referenda are merely exercises in futility .. there to be nullified on a whim by anyone wanting to wield power to do it.

This is a GOOD day for British democracy ? Hardly !!!!

And we have the Left to thank for where this will lead, UNLESS the latest mess is reversed.

As for the pound being weak, you must know as I do that it's a symptom of market uncertainty regarding our future. Blame those who lack confidence in us, and insist upon doing so, for what you're seeing.

[Noir]

Do you disagree with either (or both?) of the following statements -

We are not a direct democracy.
Parliament is Sovereign.

[revelarts]

Looks like another set back for Brexit, as the Supreme Court has reminded the Government that parliament is sovereign, and that leaving the EU should be put to parliamentary scrutiny.
If this goes to parliament Brexit is dead.

Also Drummond have you tried traveling recently? We're going to Dublin in the Spring and the pound is so weak it's painful.

parliament is "sovereign".

And so the mask is off Republican Democracy there as well. the voice of the people is to be ignored while the "representative" officials who know better have their way.

the whole issue with Brexit in my mind was popular, national/local control.
seems the establishment will have none of that.
And I have to say I don't take the economic issues lightly but at the same time with gov't the question is how much of your sovereignty do you sell for a piece of bread from more and more distant masters?

Seems a similar type arguments that arose during revolutionary times in the U.S.. Breaking ties with England meant Trade deal with the world (mainly corporations) all had to done from scratch, a brand new currency and far different banking arrangements.

price of freedom and all that.

[fj1200]

parliament is "sovereign".

And so the mask is off Republican Democracy there as well. the voice of the people is to be ignored while the "representative" officials who know better have their way.

Neither country is a democracy, the people are not the final direct arbiter.

[Drummond]

Do you disagree with either (or both?) of the following statements -

We are not a direct democracy.
Parliament is Sovereign.

We actually CAN be a direct democracy, some of the time, anyway.

The Referendum of 23rd June was an example of that in action.

The Left's response to it has been, after that date ... what ?

TO UNDERMINE IT, ANY WAY THEY CAN.

If we get to the point where there is no likelihood of the Government having sufficient autonomy to just DO what the Referendum SAID should happen ... then, yes, we'll be confirmed as having a sovereign Parliament. Because, in that scenario, Referenda will have been reduced to useless exercises that Parliament can have the power to undermine at will.

We could be forced to think: a Party canvasses for votes. It gets what it needs to rule a country, and thereafter, it DOES rule, with no meaningful opposition from The People having a snowball in hell's chance of ever stopping them in any way, for any reason, doing whatever they please.

Referenda offer a new and refreshing level of accountability .. or, they should. But, as our latest one has produced a result they don't like, then, with contempt of the wish expressed in that result, Labour are doing everything possible to delay or derail its implementation.

Of course they are. They are LEFTIES.

Our Conservatives didn't much like the Brexit decision. However, they DID offer the Referendum, and they ARE doing their best to abide with its decision.

And .. how our Lefties hate that !! They're throwing whatever spanners into the works that they can.

It's a feature of Leftie psychology that it somehow believes that ruling people, rather than listening to what The People tell them, is far preferable. They'll always try to rule instead of consult, unless, of course, opinion agrees with them anyway.

The Conservative Party in the UK, by and large, was unhappy with the Brexit outcome. Cameron, our PM, resigned over it ! Nonetheless -- the Conservatives gave us a Referendum, and being the democratic people Labour are NOT, they want to get on with the Brexit process, and without hindrance.

But hindrance is what they're getting.

From THE LEFT.

[Drummond]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37861487


A High Court ruling allowing parliament a vote on the process of leaving the EU could be the start of a "deliberate wilful attempt" to "betray voters", Nigel Farage says.

The UKIP leader told Emma Barnett on BBC 5 live that the decision could be the start of an attempt to "water down what people had voted for".

The ruling means the government cannot trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty - beginning formal discussions with the EU - on their own.

Mr Farage said he believed if the vote was put to parliament, the government would lose.

The government is appealing, with a further hearing expected next month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37857875


The BBC's assistant political editor says the High Court decision to say MPs must give their go-ahead before the formal Article 50 process of leaving the EU is triggered has "thrown an almighty spanner in the works" for Prime Minister Theresa May.

Norman Smith was speaking on the BBC News Channel as the verdict was delivered.

[Drummond]

Looks like another set back for Brexit, as the Supreme Court has reminded the Government that parliament is sovereign, and that leaving the EU should be put to parliamentary scrutiny.
If this goes to parliament Brexit is dead.

Also Drummond have you tried traveling recently? We're going to Dublin in the Spring and the pound is so weak it's painful.

Small correction, Noir .. I just spotted it. You're incorrect. The Supreme Court has not, as yet, been involved in this. It was the HIGH court (Royal Courts of Justice, the Strand, London WC2) which was.

It'll be the Supreme Court which the Government will take their case to, around one month from now, to try and get this farce reversed.

[fj1200]

This is a good sign:

Markets cheer, EU wary as UK PM May signals 'clean Brexit' (https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-premier-signal-eu-clean-break-no-partial-090435476.html)

In a long-awaited speech, Prime Minister Theresa May finally revealed the U.K's hand as it prepares to start EU exit talks. She said the U.K. wants to free itself from EU governance and stop paying millions into its coffers, but still remain friends, allies and tariff-free trading partners with the soon-to-be 27 nation bloc."We want to buy your goods and services, sell you ours, trade with you as freely as possible, and work with one another to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more prosperous through continued friendship," May said in a speech to diplomats and dignitaries beneath the gilded paintwork and chandeliers of a Georgian London mansion.
"You will still be welcome in this country as we hope our citizens will be welcome in yours," she said.
Pro-Brexit British politicians praised the speech, and the pound rallied from recent lows as May provided more details of the path ahead for the split with the EU — and vowed that Britain would remain "a great global trading nation" open to business and talent from around the world.

[Noir]

Well the pound is continuing its awful status compared to the dollar, even fell a bit more after Mays announcement >,>
Will be interesting to see how her 'tariff free trading' comments will be met.

[fj1200]

Well the pound is continuing its awful status compared to the dollar, even fell a bit more after Mays announcement >,>
Will be interesting to see how her 'tariff free trading' comments will be met.

True. The dollar has been strong to a lot of things lately.

[Noir]

True. The dollar has been strong to a lot of things lately.

Wait, nope, I got it wrong, the pound acutually soared against the dollar, who'd of thunk:cool:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/D3DF1467-262E-434D-BA92-E3BE53E0A9D5_zpstdrpvwfa.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/jonathan-mcc/media/D3DF1467-262E-434D-BA92-E3BE53E0A9D5_zpstdrpvwfa.jpg.html)
Bonus round - guess where on the graph the Brexit vote happened?

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) , I believe you're an occasional reader of the Daily Ex-princess? Quite a scoop they got there!

[fj1200]

Wait, nope, I got it wrong, the pound acutually soared against the dollar, who'd of thunk:cool:

All's relative. :poke:

[Drummond]

Wait, nope, I got it wrong, the pound acutually soared against the dollar, who'd of thunk:cool:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j176/jonathan-mcc/D3DF1467-262E-434D-BA92-E3BE53E0A9D5_zpstdrpvwfa.jpg (http://s80.photobucket.com/user/jonathan-mcc/media/D3DF1467-262E-434D-BA92-E3BE53E0A9D5_zpstdrpvwfa.jpg.html)
Bonus round - guess where on the graph the Brexit vote happened?

@Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287) , I believe you're an occasional reader of the Daily Ex-princess? Quite a scoop they got there!
Noir ... To be honest, I think the Express got a bit (or more than a bit) obsessive about Diana, Noir.

But here's the simple truth. The markets hate uncertainty. It un-nerves those who speculate. With greater certainty, and greater confidence expressed (no pun intended), things over time WILL settle down.

You see an inkling of the truth here. It isn't hatred of Brexit that, itself, is the cause of any instability ... just uncertainty as to what will ultimately happen. Clarity - no matter what it brings - will bring a relatively good reaction in the wake of it.