Antique Rifle

[indago]

From The Associated Press 14 May 2016:
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An 1886 Winchester rifle that once belonged to a man who helped capture Apache leader Geronimo has sold for $1.2 million at an auction. ...George Albee was working for Winchester and was able to secure serial No. 1 of their newest rifle design in 1886. He presented the rifle as a gift to a Civil War buddy, U.S. Army Capt. Henry Ware Lawton, who had just led the operation that captured Geronimo.
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article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_1886_RIFLE_AUCTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-05-14-21-11-50)

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

From The Associated Press 14 May 2016:
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An 1886 Winchester rifle that once belonged to a man who helped capture Apache leader Geronimo has sold for $1.2 million at an auction. ...George Albee was working for Winchester and was able to secure serial No. 1 of their newest rifle design in 1886. He presented the rifle as a gift to a Civil War buddy, U.S. Army Capt. Henry Ware Lawton, who had just led the operation that captured Geronimo.
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article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_1886_RIFLE_AUCTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-05-14-21-11-50)

If it was bought by an American will be a damn shame if hildabeast wins, for that gun will be confiscated.-Tyr

[indago]

Reminds me of the story of the rifle found in Great Basin National Park...

Martin Griffith wrote for The Associated Press 17 January 2015:
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Researchers are trying to crack the mystery surrounding the discovery of a weathered, rusted Winchester rifle in the mountains of remote eastern Nevada. The gun manufactured in 1882 was found leaning against a juniper tree on a rocky outcrop in Great Basin National Park during an archaeological survey in November. Nichole Andler, the park's chief of interpretation, said officials may never know when the .44-40 rifle was placed there, but it's possible it could have been left undisturbed since the 1800s.
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article (http://www.usnews.com/news/offbeat/articles/2015/01/17/researchers-puzzled-by-discovery-of-1882-winchester-rifle)

[Elessar]

Reminds me of the story of the rifle found in Great Basin National Park...

Martin Griffith wrote for The Associated Press 17 January 2015:
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Researchers are trying to crack the mystery surrounding the discovery of a weathered, rusted Winchester rifle in the mountains of remote eastern Nevada. The gun manufactured in 1882 was found leaning against a juniper tree on a rocky outcrop in Great Basin National Park during an archaeological survey in November. Nichole Andler, the park's chief of interpretation, said officials may never know when the .44-40 rifle was placed there, but it's possible it could have been left undisturbed since the 1800s.
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article (http://www.usnews.com/news/offbeat/articles/2015/01/17/researchers-puzzled-by-discovery-of-1882-winchester-rifle)

I remember reading that story.

To 'possibly' get some history or background on the individual rifle that old,
they would have to contact the Cody Museum in Wyoming, asking the serial
number to be traced.

I have a Marlin Lever Action model 1883 that is so old that the manufacturer
referred me to Cody to get more information on it.

[indago]

From DailyMail 21 January 2015:
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The .44-40 calibre Winchester rifle was found frozen in time on a remote rocky outcrop in the heart of the Grand Basin National Park. ...Now they are poring over old newspaper cuttings and historical texts to try and identify its original owner, while forensic experts are taking what clues they can from the gun itself to try and understand how it came to rest against the tree. Experts do not yet know for certain how long it had been there, but with its wooden base discoloured and partially buried and the metal barrel rusted, it is possible the rifle could have been undisturbed for more than a century.

...Experts are scouring local archives in a bid to piece together the history of the weapon, which was found unloaded in November.
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article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2919801/Uncovering-past-Forensic-experts-examine-132-year-old-rifle-propped-against-tree-Nevada-desert-bid-unravel-mystery-unlikely-discovery.html)

[indago]

Ashley Hlebinsky wrote for Outdoor Life 29 June 2015:
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The Winchester Model 1873 Lever Action Rifle found in Great Basin National Park last year; the Union Metallic Cartridge Company .44 WCF Cartridge found inside it, dated between 1887-1911. ...Additionally, the lifter is missing; we speculate the firearm may have been used as a single shot.
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article (http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/gun-week-forgotten-winchester-1873-great-basin-national-park)

[Gunny]

Y'all make sure you get a gunsmith to check those things out if you ever get a notion to fire them. They're designed to fire black powder cartridges, not modern safety powder. The latter is more powerful and the metallurgic quality might not be up to snuff.

[indago]

Since part of the rifle was missing, it's possible that the owner got tired of using it as a single shot and thought he could do better without it and just abandoned it there...

[Elessar]

Y'all make sure you get a gunsmith to check those things out if you ever get a notion to fire them. They're designed to fire black powder cartridges, not modern safety powder. The latter is more powerful and the metallurgic quality might not be up to snuff.


Even though I can get the 30-32 cartridges for it, I have not tried to fire it. It was cased
and stuck in a closet for over 30 years and is dire need of cleaning, which I need a gunsmith to do.

I can do the barrel, but I opened the face plate, looked at all those springs and the like,
then closed it back up. It is much more complicated than a modern firearm.

[Gunny]

Even though I can get the 30-32 cartridges for it, I have not tried to fire it. It was cased
and stuck in a closet for over 30 years and is dire need of cleaning, which I need a gunsmith to do.

I can do the barrel, but I opened the face plate, looked at all those springs and the like,
then closed it back up. It is much more complicated than a modern firearm.

You need a schematic. However, cleaning it is not the only deal. The springs and metallurgy from the 19th century are not only old, but not built to withstand the pressures of modern gunpowder.

[Elessar]

You need a schematic. However, cleaning it is not the only deal. The springs and metallurgy from the 19th century are not only old, but not built to withstand the pressures of modern gunpowder.

Agreed. That is why I am having a smith look at it.

[Gunny]

Agreed. That is why I am having a smith look at it.

Too bad you don't live around me. I could do it for you for a discount. See what it's worth first. Not at a pawn shop either. At auction. You could likely cost yourself more than if you just bought another rifle. Firing it is a risk.

[indago]

It is an inaccuracy to say that Geronimo was "captured", and Captain Lawton never entered such a phrasing in his report.

Two scouts, working for the Military — Al Sieber and Tom Horn — found the Geronimo encampment of renegade Indians and sat down with Geronimo to discuss his dilemma. Geronimo told them of his complaints while they listened. Then they told him how things really were: that they had no chance of survival, living as they were, moving from place to place, hounded by the Military. They would eventually starve, or be killed in a battle. Geronomo listened to them, and realized that what they were saying was true, and they surrendered themselves.

[Gunny]

It is an inaccuracy to say that Geronimo was "captured", and Captain Lawton never entered such a phrasing in his report.

Two scouts, working for the Military — Al Sieber and Tom Horn — found the Geronimo encampment of renegade Indians and sat down with Geronimo to discuss his dilemma. Geronimo told them of his complaints while they listened. Then they told him how things really were: that they had no chance of survival, living as they were, moving from place to place, hounded by the Military. They would eventually starve, or be killed in a battle. Geronomo listened to them, and realized that what they were saying was true, and they surrendered themselves.

They kept him at Ft Sam Houston in San Antonio. Tom Horn is a study all unto himself.