The ‘Never Trump’ Pouters

[jimnyc]

(Not my title)

-----

The conservatives who have declared war on the primary victor are displaying a myopia that could be deadly in November when Donald Trump will lead Republicans against a party that has divided the country, destroyed its borders, empowered its enemies, and put 93 million Americans into dependency on the state.

This reckless disregard for consequences is matched only by a blindness to what has made Trump the presumptive nominee. When he entered the Republican primaries a year ago, Trump was given no chance of surviving even the first contest, let alone becoming the Republican nominee. That was the view of all the experts, and especially those experts with the best records of prediction.

Trump — who had never held political office and had no experience in any political job — faced a field of sixteen tested political leaders, including nine governors and five senators from major states. Most of his political opponents were conservatives. During the primaries, several hundred million dollars were spent in negative campaign ads — nastier and more personal than in any Republican primary in memory. At least 60,000 of those ads were aimed at Trump, attacking him as a fraud, a corporate predator, a not-so-closet liberal, an ally of Hillary Clinton, indistinguishable from Barack Obama, an ignoramus, and too crass to be president (Bill Clinton, anyone?).

These negative ads were directed at Republican primary voters, a constituency well to the right of the party. These primary voters are a constituency that may be said to represent the heart of the conservative movement in America and are generally more politically engaged and informed than most Republican voters. Trump won their support. He won by millions of votes — more votes from this conservative heartland than any Republican in primary history. To describe Trump as ignorant — as so many Beltway intellectuals have — is merely to privilege book knowledge over real-world knowledge, not an especially wise way to judge political leaders.

A chorus of detractors has attempted to dismiss Trump’s political victory as representing a mere plurality of primary voters, but how many candidates have won outright majorities among a field of seventeen, or five, or even three? When the Republican primary contest was actually reduced to three, Trump beat the “true conservative,” Ted Cruz, with more than fifty percent of the votes. He did this in blue states and red states, in virtually all precincts and among all Republican demographics. He clinched the nomination by beating Cruz with an outright majority in conservative Indiana.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/08/never-trump-pouters/

[Kathianne]

I'm not looking for the GOP to do anything about Trump at this point. He won. It's time for folks to make their choices for the November races. We belong to a party or not, by choice-same as our religions and any other organizations we choose to belong to or not.

As a registered Republican I voted for my 4th or 5th choice in the primary-he lost the state and he lost the nominee race.

In November as a registered voter I will cast my vote for the candidate that most closely I identify on the issues of most import to me-not to any party. I will vote the entire ballot, again choosing those that most closely align with my views of what I agree with.

The truth of the matter is the most important offices are those at the city, county, and state levels.

On the 17th of this month, AZ has a voting on referendums concerning funding for the schools, you can bet I'll show for that. ;)

[gabosaurus]

Like it or not, the GOP is not the Party of Trump. If people go to the polls in November angry at Trump, they will also be angry at other GOP candidates on the ballot.
Say you have a Dem and a Republican running for the state legislature in Nebraska. The Dem is going to say "are you going to vote for me, or are you going to vote for my opponent, who supports Donald Trump and everything Trump stands for?"
It all starts at the top.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Like it or not, the GOP is not the Party of Trump. If people go to the polls in November angry at Trump, they will also be angry at other GOP candidates on the ballot.
Say you have a Dem and a Republican running for the state legislature in Nebraska. The Dem is going to say "are you going to vote for me, or are you going to vote for my opponent, who supports Donald Trump and everything Trump stands for?"
It all starts at the top.

That is not how it works Gabby. Especially since many of the Republican candidates for elected offices below Trump are not even for him and have openly stated that fact..
Republican voters aren't quite as gullible or brainwashed as are the brain-dead, government-bought, sold out dem masses..
Reality says you are dead wrong on this IMHO.-TYR

[Gunny]

Like it or not, the GOP is not the Party of Trump. If people go to the polls in November angry at Trump, they will also be angry at other GOP candidates on the ballot.
Say you have a Dem and a Republican running for the state legislature in Nebraska. The Dem is going to say "are you going to vote for me, or are you going to vote for my opponent, who supports Donald Trump and everything Trump stands for?"
It all starts at the top.

Like it or not, the disclosure of classified material during a time of war has the death penalty attached to it. Yet you'll still vote for that dumb bitch. She should be hanged, drawn and quartered. She's a criminal. Trump might not be my cup of tea but at least he isn't a proven criminal y'all are letting just skate. You should be ashamed. The sad thing is, you aren't.

[Black Diamond]

Like it or not, the disclosure of classified material during a time of war has the death penalty attached to it. Yet you'll still vote for that dumb bitch. She should be hanged, drawn and quartered. She's a criminal. Trump might not be my cup of tea but at least he isn't a proven criminal y'all are letting just skate. You should be ashamed. The sad thing is, you aren't.
Minor details.

[Elessar]

Like it or not, the GOP is not the Party of Trump. If people go to the polls in November angry at Trump, they will also be angry at other GOP candidates on the ballot.
Say you have a Dem and a Republican running for the state legislature in Nebraska. The Dem is going to say "are you going to vote for me, or are you going to vote for my opponent, who supports Donald Trump and everything Trump stands for?"
It all starts at the top.

Gabby, only brain dead non-thinkers vote strictly by party lines.

I would not support Hillary to run the waste-treatment plant here
because of her lies and treason.

Yet, Dem, Libs, and some Progs turn a blind eye to it and boost her.

Time to wake up and listen to some folks that know what they are
talking about.

[Black Diamond]

Gabby, only brain dead non-thinkers vote strictly by party lines.

I would not support Hillary to run the waste-treatment plant here
because of her lies and treason.

Yet, Dem, Libs, and some Progs turn a blind eye to it and boost her.

Time to wake up and listen to some folks that know what they are
talking about.
You just don't like women.

[Elessar]

Minor details.

Bullshit! Unless that was sarcasm.

[Elessar]

You just don't like women.

I don't know where you came up with that.

You could not be more wrong if you tried.

[Black Diamond]

Bullshit! Unless that was sarcasm.

It was. I am feeling exceptionally sarcastic this evening. :cool:

[Black Diamond]

I don't know where you came up with that.

You could not be more wrong if you tried.

Oh if I tried I certainly could.

[Black Diamond]

It was. I am feeling exceptionally sarcastic this evening. :cool:

Plus I believe it is a card Hillary will play.

[Elessar]

Oh if I tried I certainly could.

I do not know why all of a sudden you are making this personal, but I will tell this, idiot!

I have the utmost respect for the ladies in this forum, even if I do not agree with
their views. I carry the same attitude and personality in Real Life as well.

Gabby is a friend and we argue...so what? Is that your business?
I do not agree with Kathianne on things, but we get along fine.

Sticking your nose in where it does not belong.

[Black Diamond]

I do not know why all of a sudden you are making this personal, but I will tell this, idiot!

I have the utmost respect for the ladies in this forum, even if I do not agree with
their views. I carry the same attitude and personality in Real Life as well.

Gabby is a friend and we argue...so what? Is that your business?
I do not agree with Kathianne on things, but we get along fine.

Sticking your nose in where it does not belong.

See above. I'm pretty sure I'm not an idiot. Although that's a relative term.

[Elessar]

It was. I am feeling exceptionally sarcastic this evening. :cool:

Sorry...missed this.

Maybe you should identify sarcasm.

[Black Diamond]

Sorry...missed this.

Maybe you should identify sarcasm.

On a message board. Probably. :).

[Elessar]

On a message board. Probably. :).

We're Good then.

[gabosaurus]

Gabby, only brain dead non-thinkers vote strictly by party lines.


I believe this to be incorrect. There are quite a few members of this forum who have stated that they will never vote for anyone with a (D) after their name. They will vote for any Republican.

I don't care for Hillary at all. I never have. But I will hold my nose and vote against Trump. Who I believe is unfit to run a small city, much less the most powerful nation in the world.
I can see where Trump gets his support on the GOP side. Many Republicans are quite upset and angry at their leaders. A liberal Dem has been president for eight years. Past GOP leaders have been unable to challenge him. Most of Trump's challengers fit the bill as "more of the same."
Trump is a gifted orator with no filter. He is not afraid to say what it on the minds of many Republican voters. He weeded out his many opponents because he was the only one who didn't act like a politician.
Trump had more money and more charisma than the rest of the 2016 GOP field put together. His success was almost inevitable.

At the same time, many Dems have yawned through the entire primary process. They viewed Hillary as the inevitable nominee. That is why Bernie Sanders has had so much success. Sanders has galvanized young voters in the same manner that Trump has. Trouble is, Sanders doesn't have 15 opponents who has split the votes and money. He is facing a very experienced, very wealthy and very underhanded opponent who never really had to worry about getting the nomination.

Trump's game will not work in the general election. Unlike Trump, Hillary doesn't have to worry about key members of the Dem establishment failing to support her. The amount of Sanders supporters willing to vote for Trump is probably smaller than the number of Republicans willing to vote for Hillary.

What does Trump have to worry about? Let's start with this:
** Hillary is polling higher among black voters than Obama did in either 2008 or 2012.
** Her support among women is as high as 75 percent. Even 45 percent of Republican women would choose her over Trump
** There are as many as 15 million registered Latino voters who didn't go to the polls in 2012. What if they show up in November?

[Elessar]

I believe this to be incorrect. There are quite a few members of this forum who have stated that they will never vote for anyone with a (D) after their name. They will vote for any Republican.

I don't care for Hillary at all. I never have. But I will hold my nose and vote against Trump.

I'm not going to disagree with you. Many times in my lifetime I have voted for folks on both
sides of the aisle and some in between.

Following strictly by a party line is brain-dead, led-by-the-nose, unable to think for one's self.
My disgust for Hillary is widespread. She is a carpet-bagging enabler of a sexual predator.

She let down our diplomatic attachment in Libya.
She lied about sniper fire in Kosovo.
Her E-mail scandal as Secretary of State? I would be in the brig or
a Federal Lock-up on just one count of that. Hers appear to be multiple.

[Gunny]

I believe this to be incorrect. There are quite a few members of this forum who have stated that they will never vote for anyone with a (D) after their name. They will vote for any Republican.

I don't care for Hillary at all. I never have. But I will hold my nose and vote against Trump. Who I believe is unfit to run a small city, much less the most powerful nation in the world.
I can see where Trump gets his support on the GOP side. Many Republicans are quite upset and angry at their leaders. A liberal Dem has been president for eight years. Past GOP leaders have been unable to challenge him. Most of Trump's challengers fit the bill as "more of the same."
Trump is a gifted orator with no filter. He is not afraid to say what it on the minds of many Republican voters. He weeded out his many opponents because he was the only one who didn't act like a politician.
Trump had more money and more charisma than the rest of the 2016 GOP field put together. His success was almost inevitable.

At the same time, many Dems have yawned through the entire primary process. They viewed Hillary as the inevitable nominee. That is why Bernie Sanders has had so much success. Sanders has galvanized young voters in the same manner that Trump has. Trouble is, Sanders doesn't have 15 opponents who has split the votes and money. He is facing a very experienced, very wealthy and very underhanded opponent who never really had to worry about getting the nomination.

Trump's game will not work in the general election. Unlike Trump, Hillary doesn't have to worry about key members of the Dem establishment failing to support her. The amount of Sanders supporters willing to vote for Trump is probably smaller than the number of Republicans willing to vote for Hillary.

What does Trump have to worry about? Let's start with this:
** Hillary is polling higher among black voters than Obama did in either 2008 or 2012.
** Her support among women is as high as 75 percent. Even 45 percent of Republican women would choose her over Trump
** There are as many as 15 million registered Latino voters who didn't go to the polls in 2012. What if they show up in November?

I'll vote for one. Soon as you quit getting boobs and criminals for candidates.

[jimnyc]

I'll vote for one. Soon as you quit getting boobs and criminals for candidates.

That's a fact, and one the left doesn't understand. For example, if Condi were to run as a democrat, with her exact positions, and depending who her opponent is of course, I would vote for her. And I know it can't happen, but suppose Hillary and Trump's affiliations were reversed, I would still prefer him over that witch. Of course party lines matter, but the actual issues that the candidate supports and works for is more important to me. Another example, if the person I want to vote for is a known criminal, and has already screwed up in office, and American lives were lost during that time, I simply couldn't vote for that person. But others?...

[Abbey Marie]

Clearly, neither of you is an idiot. Just a misunderstanding, which is becoming more frequent lately here between lots of folks. I blame the election.

[Gunny]

That's a fact, and one the left doesn't understand. For example, if Condi were to run as a democrat, with her exact positions, and depending who her opponent is of course, I would vote for her. And I know it can't happen, but suppose Hillary and Trump's affiliations were reversed, I would still prefer him over that witch. Of course party lines matter, but the actual issues that the candidate supports and works for is more important to me. Another example, if the person I want to vote for is a known criminal, and has already screwed up in office, and American lives were lost during that time, I simply couldn't vote for that person. But others?...

The parts are interchangeable regardless the party. I like neither candidate. I just know Hillary is and has always been trying to validate herself as being as good and as important as Bill. She's not. You can say what you want about him, and I hated serving under him, but he could connect with people. She comes off as an elitist, hypocritical snob. Not to mention she's a criminal in my eyes.

Trump is just eyeing the prize. He's trying to buy something else he doesn't have.

He's less dangerous than she is and I want this current crop of Dems out and I don't want a Dem Supreme Court. Even the dumb TV pundits caught on (after I've been saying it for more than a month. The SUpreme Court is at stake and my guess is so is Congress.

[Elessar]

Here are some pretty powerful statements from Gov. Rick Perry:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/09/rick-perry-hannity-supporting-donald-trump-earned-nomination

[Gunny]

Here are some pretty powerful statements from Gov. Rick Perry:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/05/09/rick-perry-hannity-supporting-donald-trump-earned-nomination

Rick Perry was actually my candidate. He's just a horrible actor on the tube.

[gabosaurus]

My disgust for Hillary is widespread. She is a carpet-bagging enabler of a sexual predator.

She let down our diplomatic attachment in Libya.
She lied about sniper fire in Kosovo.
Her E-mail scandal as Secretary of State? I would be in the brig or
a Federal Lock-up on just one count of that. Hers appear to be multiple.

Trouble is, most voters are not as well-informed as you are. Hillary knows this. Don't believe she doesn't have an answer to all of these points.

I can imagine her response to the Benghazi question already. "If Trump is elected, he will escalate the Middle East war. Thousands of your kids are going to come back either dead or injured. Do you want that?"
Trump has never been known for his honesty. I am sure that will come back to haunt.

In the 24/7 news cycle era, people are not as interested in the past. They want to know about the future. Will our taxes go up? Will our wages and buying power go down? Do I have to worry about more terror attacks?
It's going to be "I don't like or trust either of you. Both of you are pretty slimy. Who is going to hurt me the least?"

[Kathianne]

Trouble is, most voters are not as well-informed as you are. Hillary knows this. Don't believe she doesn't have an answer to all of these points.

I can imagine her response to the Benghazi question already. "If Trump is elected, he will escalate the Middle East war. Thousands of your kids are going to come back either dead or injured. Do you want that?"
Trump has never been known for his honesty. I am sure that will come back to haunt.

In the 24/7 news cycle era, people are not as interested in the past. They want to know about the future. Will our taxes go up? Will our wages and buying power go down? Do I have to worry about more terror attacks?
It's going to be "I don't like or trust either of you. Both of you are pretty slimy. Who is going to hurt me the least?"

Actually Trump is much more the dove than Hillary.

[Drummond]

I'm not looking for the GOP to do anything about Trump at this point. He won. It's time for folks to make their choices for the November races. We belong to a party or not, by choice-same as our religions and any other organizations we choose to belong to or not.

As a registered Republican I voted for my 4th or 5th choice in the primary-he lost the state and he lost the nominee race.

In November as a registered voter I will cast my vote for the candidate that most closely I identify on the issues of most import to me-not to any party. I will vote the entire ballot, again choosing those that most closely align with my views of what I agree with.

The truth of the matter is the most important offices are those at the city, county, and state levels.

On the 17th of this month, AZ has a voting on referendums concerning funding for the schools, you can bet I'll show for that. ;)

As admirable as your thinking appears to be - on the face of it - facts nonetheless have to be faced. The glaring, unavoidable fact that should surely be uppermost in every Conservative's mind is the need to get the Dems ousted from power !! Now, do Conservatives work towards that end .. or NOT ?

If NOT ... then resign yourself to a Dem victory, some months from now ...

Like it or not, Trump is the only realistic way open to you to achieve such a goal. Divert from that, and if enough people do .. the Dems win.

This is not rocket science. It's obvious fact, obvious reality. Split the only voting base that has any real chance of ousting the Dems, and you KEEP THEM IN POWER.

So, the only question worth a damn, is ... do you want to increase the chance of a Dem win, or not ?

[Kathianne]

I came across this a couple hours ago, while it's in favor of 'staying home,' which I don't agree with, ultimately it's about an alternative to both parties being inevitable:

http://thewilderness.me/on-the-bright-side/


On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.

The Wilderness | Issue 66 | 5 . 10 . 2016

People rarely grasp history while they’re living through it. Watershed moments are rarely recognized for what they are while we’re in the middle of them. If your mind can’t process the gravity of what you’re witnessing, it’s because what you’re witnessing right now with the end of the GOP p̶r̶i̶m̶a̶r̶y̶ and the nomination of reality TV entertainer Donald Trump is one of those moments. Careers and conservatism will be judged based on where those in the arena stood at this moment. Believe it.

...

And herein lies the problem for Trump:


He now finds himself facing a general election opponent who has already survived tabloid accusations that she birthed a space alien and that her husband hired the 3-breasted hooker from Total Recall as an intern. She’s been through all of this before, back in the 1990s. And I hope you enjoy reruns, because over the course of the next 6 months we are going to relitigate Vince Foster, Chelsea’s “real” father, Bill’s illegitimate black kids, and whether Aliens Back Clinton this time, or are Trump-curious. Roger Stone, Jr. will be shouting “Webb Hubbell!” from the rooftops and resurrecting stories about Mena, AR cocaine deals, and Trump’s anonymous goon army will dutifully hashtag it and send it out.


The Info-Wartainment and National-Enquirerism has now been legitimized and will be allowed to fester because it will satisfy a part of the Republican base who wants to see Hillary take a beating for her sins. Trump exploits this with a barrage of cheap threats and call-in appearances where he is not made to account for his breathless declarations. What if Ted Cruz is Canadian? I’m just asking questions about Obama’s birth certificate. Hey man, Rafael Cruz never denied hanging out with Lee Harvey Oswald, it’s just a theory I read man. His online horde of Scavino-bots then pick these messages up, run with them to get them into the Breitbart bloodstream and voilà:a narrative is born. These are the stories Trump is allowed to nurture into existence and drop at a moment’s notice because journalists fail at their duty to hold him accountable for any of it.
...

We have no interest in winning you over anymore. You don’t want serious policy solutions or explanations of why Paul Ryan allowed the Ominbus to pass. It’s much easier to tune out while Sean Hannity screams “Traitor!” into his microphone. You don’t want a physics lesson on how, barring the acquisition of a Kryptonian terraforming space machine, Trump’s big beautiful wall will remain a myth. You want to scream with outrage that lowbrow, quasi-thinkpieces like this one do nothing but “insult the base.”


Well guess what? You’re right. Because a base that chooses a Cheeto-dusted con-man hellbent on proving every lazy Salon.com cliché the Left has ever spouted about the “Tea Party” is a base that not only deserves to be insulted, but outright ignored and shunned going forward. No matter how loud and no matter how many in number.


Cliff’s Notes conservative establishment authors and entertainers have decided that anger sells and have millions off of it. They’ve spent a goodly amount of time making sure you’re angry and afraid of the Kenyan Obama and scary Mexican hotel workers. You’re angry listening to them in your car. You’re angry listening to them in your garage. You’re angry reading them before bed. We’re done trying to change it. We’re simply bidding adieu. The GOP is yours. Do what you will with it. We’re done fighting for the soul of it. It deserves to die along with most of Trump’s baby-boomer base.


You want your speeches about Big Gulps and the white noise of your AM Radio and you want to be left alone for the remainder of what’s left of the past 30 years of your wasted political lives. And you’re going to get your wish.



Fox News pocket catheter spokesman and Footloose preacher Mike Huckabee has told us kids to get off his lawn. In fact most of Fox news in general has made it quite clear through Twitter fights and ghostwritten quickie books that they are not interested in a non-Trump audience. For all of this raging against the dying of the light by millionaire TV and radio hosts, it’s time to ask a very simple question: What are you getting out of it? The “base” is really, really upset that they fucked everything up, and now they are going to do something about it!


There’s another facet to all this that is not only fascinating but downright comically bewildering: the online alt-Right has fallen into line with the same position as the establishment of Bob Dole, John Boehner, Jan Brewer, Mitch McConnell, Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich. Yes, this plucky anon army of anime-bots is apparently totally fine with standing shoulder-to-shoulder with that special brand of God, grits, guns and crazy. Failed ideologies make for strange bedfellows and they both agree: conservatives and moderates who will not support Trump are no longer needed. This a declaration passed down from the lint headed God-Emperor himself. And that’s fine with us as well. We’re tired of defending the culturally illiterate Mike Huckabees, the bobble-headed caricature that is now Sarah Palin, the over-the-hill Ann Coulters and the incompetent Reince Priebus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBx7Jg4m-o).

But know this: you cannot have it both ways. If we are told to pack our bags and go, we’ll go, peacefully without argument. We’ll go our way, you will go yours and that will be that. But you’re responsible for what happens next. There will be no MUH ESTABLUSHMUNT to blame this time. Trump is the candidate Rush Limbaugh has been screaming about for the past 20 years, and he finally got him. There are other fights in culture and media worth the time and effort. The 2016 election is no longer one of them. Madam President.


The GOP brand is now effectively the Trump brand, and the Trump brand is a garbage heap made to look classy and expensive. Those of you happy to scoop gold-leaf litter to cover the smell of the fanta colored cat turds are welcome to continue doing so; we are under no obligation anymore to explain, intervene, nor mitigate your desperate bullshit. And we won’t.


With Trump at the head of the party, the GOP has effectively become Trump University, and candidates looking to emulate Trump, Like Paul Nehlan, will begin popping up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcVsuCgYf0U). These people are Frank TJ Mackey wannabes, more bent on proving their physical prowess than the soundness of their policies. A Ponzi scheme of jockhead fanatics all hoping to replicate Trump’s image of success, no different than a Jordan Belfort seminar. “You too can rise to the top of your primary field like Trump following these 12 easy steps and for just 9 easy payments of $39.99!!!1!!”


The Grand Old Party just became the Sell Me This Pen Party.


If all of this sounds hopeless and lost. It’s not. Not in the least. Being excommunicated out of a party and ideology is not despair. It’s an opportunity. It’s where all snakes and charlatans once under the ideological clan of protection can be purged. In the wilderness, new ideas can be nurtured and new talent can be grown and new allies can be found. Supporters can be recruited without the culturally leprosied shackles of people like Rick Santorum and his family’s matching outfits hindering us. Even if the Republican Party survives Trump, it will never escape accounting for him. The GOP has been demolished. Long live the counter culture of conservatism.


...

In the end, in a country of three-hundred million people, choosing two that are hated most amongst the majority suits us perfectly at this moment in time. Another celebrity-built election on the back of those we loathe. We don’t follow Kanye West on Twitter because he’s a swell human being. We don’t watch the Kardashians argue about Caitlyn’s junk because we love and admire them. And we don’t nominate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump because we love what they say about tax policy. We do it because it makes ourselves feel better. That’s the level of apathy we find ourselves in. But it can’t last and something has to take its place when we find ourselves at the end of this tunnel of shit. That’s the lesson to be learned from Trump and those that enabled him. Conservatives, now battling ideological opponents on both flanks, have to decide what that’s going to be, but if they’re going to do it, it has to be without any of the voices who have embraced, enabled or facilitated this catastrophe and that includes the Republican Party.
This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Don’t waste it.

[Gunny]

Trouble is, most voters are not as well-informed as you are. Hillary knows this. Don't believe she doesn't have an answer to all of these points.

I can imagine her response to the Benghazi question already. "If Trump is elected, he will escalate the Middle East war. Thousands of your kids are going to come back either dead or injured. Do you want that?"
Trump has never been known for his honesty. I am sure that will come back to haunt.

In the 24/7 news cycle era, people are not as interested in the past. They want to know about the future. Will our taxes go up? Will our wages and buying power go down? Do I have to worry about more terror attacks?
It's going to be "I don't like or trust either of you. Both of you are pretty slimy. Who is going to hurt me the least?"

Simple answer. The longer the Middle East gets dragged out with this half-assing we've had the last 8 years, the more bodies it's going to cost. Your little message is convoluted. We owned the place and YOUR boy f*cked it all up. The longer it's stretched out, the more it's going to cost and the bigger it's going to be.

You'd think someone might have read a book on WWII that could have been stopped before it got started.

[Drummond]

I came across this a couple hours ago, while it's in favor of 'staying home,' which I don't agree with, ultimately it's about an alternative to both parties being inevitable:

http://thewilderness.me/on-the-bright-side/

How much of this is diversionary ?

Simple truth .. only one form of voting ... for the GOP ... will oust the Dems. You can decide that not usefully combatting the Dems, by applying it to nobody who can realistically get rid of them, is a 'worthwhile' thing to do. But the reality is that it lets the Dems continue on in power.

Do you want them to, yes or no ? If 'no', then a vote must be cast which DOES oust them ...

If 'yes', then continue as you are.

[Gunny]

How much of this is diversionary ?

Simple truth .. only one form of voting ... for the GOP ... will oust the Dems. You can decide that not usefully combatting the Dems, by applying it to nobody who can realistically get rid of them, is a 'worthwhile' thing to do. But the reality is that it lets the Dems continue on in power.

Do you want them to, yes or no ? If 'no', then a vote must be cast which DOES oust them ...

If 'yes', then continue as you are.

I get your point exactly and agree with you. What I will point out though is the Republicans brought this on themselves. The RNC does not have command and control of its own party. What result besides chaos can you expect? The RNC should be running the party and Trump shouldn't even be eligible to run as a Republican, IMO. In fairness, I thought the same of Hitlery running for the senate by just moving to NY after spending most of her years in Arkansas. To me, BOTH candidates have allegiance only to their self-interest.

Republicans have been making and not keeping promises for 20 years. There is going to be backlash for that. Bush had the presidency and congress his first term and they did nothing.

My biggest issue is allowing the Dems to get control of the Supreme Court since they are above the law, and love to legislate from the bench.

[DLT]

(Not my title)

-----

The conservatives who have declared war on the primary victor are displaying a myopia that could be deadly in November when Donald Trump will lead Republicans against a party that has divided the country, destroyed its borders, empowered its enemies, and put 93 million Americans into dependency on the state.

This reckless disregard for consequences is matched only by a blindness to what has made Trump the presumptive nominee. When he entered the Republican primaries a year ago, Trump was given no chance of surviving even the first contest, let alone becoming the Republican nominee. That was the view of all the experts, and especially those experts with the best records of prediction.

Trump — who had never held political office and had no experience in any political job — faced a field of sixteen tested political leaders, including nine governors and five senators from major states. Most of his political opponents were conservatives. During the primaries, several hundred million dollars were spent in negative campaign ads — nastier and more personal than in any Republican primary in memory. At least 60,000 of those ads were aimed at Trump, attacking him as a fraud, a corporate predator, a not-so-closet liberal, an ally of Hillary Clinton, indistinguishable from Barack Obama, an ignoramus, and too crass to be president (Bill Clinton, anyone?).

These negative ads were directed at Republican primary voters, a constituency well to the right of the party. These primary voters are a constituency that may be said to represent the heart of the conservative movement in America and are generally more politically engaged and informed than most Republican voters. Trump won their support. He won by millions of votes — more votes from this conservative heartland than any Republican in primary history. To describe Trump as ignorant — as so many Beltway intellectuals have — is merely to privilege book knowledge over real-world knowledge, not an especially wise way to judge political leaders.

A chorus of detractors has attempted to dismiss Trump’s political victory as representing a mere plurality of primary voters, but how many candidates have won outright majorities among a field of seventeen, or five, or even three? When the Republican primary contest was actually reduced to three, Trump beat the “true conservative,” Ted Cruz, with more than fifty percent of the votes. He did this in blue states and red states, in virtually all precincts and among all Republican demographics. He clinched the nomination by beating Cruz with an outright majority in conservative Indiana.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/08/never-trump-pouters/

Trump will lose and lose badly in November. All those Democrats that voted for him in the open primaries will switch back to their real party then and that fact, coupled with the fact that Donald has seemingly deliberately insulted, alienated and turned off so many voters on the right will 'clinch' his defeat in the GE. Bank on it.

Why do you think we've been so anti-Trump all this time? It's obvious to anyone that has the will to see.

[jimnyc]

Trump will lose and lose badly in November. All those Democrats that voted for him in the open primaries will switch back to their real party then and that fact, coupled with the fact that Donald has seemingly deliberately insulted, alienated and turned off so many voters on the right will 'clinch' his defeat in the GE. Bank on it.

Why do you think we've been so anti-Trump all this time? It's obvious to anyone that has the will to see.

I have seen those that don't like him, and I've also seen just as many that do like him, and the voters spoke clearly. Personally, I don't believe millions of democrats went out there somehow went out and voted Trump in the primaries. And I do have the will to see, I've followed this campaign extremely closely, more than any other election I've watched in my lifetime. But that doesn't mean I'm somehow blind to facts or anything like that. I simply have different opinions is all? :dunno:

But it's little things like this that add up. Little things implying that Trump voters are blind, or outright refusing to see things, or that we are being duped somehow.... I'll just repeat what I've said all along, and then I'll remain with that - I've never really had an issue with anyone who liked any of the 16 other candidates, and still don't. I don't hold any anger or animosity. Regardless of who other folks supported, I don't think any of them are less intelligent or somehow not seeing things the 'right' way.

I would have assumed that "anti-Trump" was a slogan towards Donald J. Trump - not Donald J. Trump and any of his supporters that disagree with me.

[Gunny]

I have seen those that don't like him, and I've also seen just as many that do like him, and the voters spoke clearly. Personally, I don't believe millions of democrats went out there somehow went out and voted Trump in the primaries. And I do have the will to see, I've followed this campaign extremely closely, more than any other election I've watched in my lifetime. But that doesn't mean I'm somehow blind to facts or anything like that. I simply have different opinions is all? :dunno:

But it's little things like this that add up. Little things implying that Trump voters are blind, or outright refusing to see things, or that we are being duped somehow.... I'll just repeat what I've said all along, and then I'll remain with that - I've never really had an issue with anyone who liked any of the 16 other candidates, and still don't. I don't hold any anger or animosity. Regardless of who other folks supported, I don't think any of them are less intelligent or somehow not seeing things the 'right' way.

I would have assumed that "anti-Trump" was a slogan towards Donald J. Trump - not Donald J. Trump and any of his supporters that disagree with me.

I'm not sure. The Dems/MSM made sure we got two sure losers the last 2 elections. Looks like the same old game plan to. Now as far as going out and voting for him? I doubt it. Independents don't get vote in a lot of states in the primaries. I don't. And voting cross-party cancels your vote basically.

[jimnyc]

I'm not sure. The Dems/MSM made sure we got two sure losers the last 2 elections. Looks like the same old game plan to. Now as far as going out and voting for him? I doubt it. Independents don't get vote in a lot of states in the primaries. I don't. And voting cross-party cancels your vote basically.

That's because the Democrats suck. The republicans have looked good mostly, until they all got into office and then have us prostate exams. The mainstream media has mostly been a joke too, and that's why we have posted like a trillion billion links here over the years, and probably like 2% from the MSM. BUT, most people at home rely on a handful of news channels. :(

[Gunny]

That's because the Democrats suck. The republicans have looked good mostly, until they all got into office and then have us prostate exams. The mainstream media has mostly been a joke too, and that's why we have posted like a trillion billion links here over the years, and probably like 2% from the MSM. BUT, most people at home rely on a handful of news channels. :(

Actually, they haven't looked good. They are still running on "we aren't them" from the 90s. They have not adjusted to the current "personality race". It started with Obama upsetting Billary. That should have never happened. And you know my opinion of that criminal, but she would have been better than an idiot that has been a traitor to everything we stand for.

I blame the RNC for not controlling its on party, and I blame the people for going on soundbytes and social media. Novel idea here: how about we get the right guy that can do the job? And this NOT about me picking on Trump nor those who support him. It's about winning to me. I don't fight to lose.

Barring a miracle, Trump is not going to win the GE. THAT is the endgame. Problem is, it's too late. Already time to start planning on how to deal with the disaster.

[jimnyc]

Trump will lose and lose badly in November. All those Democrats that voted for him in the open primaries will switch back to their real party then and that fact, coupled with the fact that Donald has seemingly deliberately insulted, alienated and turned off so many voters on the right will 'clinch' his defeat in the GE. Bank on it.

Why do you think we've been so anti-Trump all this time? It's obvious to anyone that has the will to see.

I'm sorry if my initial response came off snotty. It's difficult at times when I get hit with various lines that question certain things about me, simply because I support Trump. It's mostly in Yahoo comments that I get abused. :) But I post at a couple of other forums to the same treatment. But I do understand folks frustration with Trump, and perhaps even anger now that he is likely the nominee.

[jimnyc]

I blame the RNC for not controlling its on party,

While I do agree that the RNC holds a fair amount of responsibility, I hold the politicians more responsible - and it pisses me off to no end when I think about getting screwed by them, and makes me want to get term limits going more than ever. Some have said that it has been tried by the States and has not worked out like some would expect, so I don't know. But it should at least be available to those who screw over their constituents, perhaps a certain amount of times.

What would it take to get the term limits installed in congress?

[DLT]

As admirable as your thinking appears to be - on the face of it - facts nonetheless have to be faced. The glaring, unavoidable fact that should surely be uppermost in every Conservative's mind is the need to get the Dems ousted from power !! Now, do Conservatives work towards that end .. or NOT ?

If NOT ... then resign yourself to a Dem victory, some months from now ...

Like it or not, Trump is the only realistic way open to you to achieve such a goal. Divert from that, and if enough people do .. the Dems win.

This is not rocket science. It's obvious fact, obvious reality. Split the only voting base that has any real chance of ousting the Dems, and you KEEP THEM IN POWER.

So, the only question worth a damn, is ... do you want to increase the chance of a Dem win, or not ?

Some of us have been holding our nose and voting for that "lesser evil" for over two decades now. All to no avail. We're sick of having to do that. And once again, we see the writing on the wall where the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by choosing a "not conservative" candidate.

The FACT that Trump was, until 2011, a liberal NY Democrat, is a clear indication of the "why" he has deliberately (seemingly) alienated so many folks on the right. He's not supposed to win in November. He has, in the process....however, managed to destroy the GOP from within (also seemingly, since he's not really one of em). I liken it to a 'twofer' for Hillary and the Democrats.

Just my two cents.

[DLT]

I have seen those that don't like him, and I've also seen just as many that do like him, and the voters spoke clearly. Personally, I don't believe millions of democrats went out there somehow went out and voted Trump in the primaries. And I do have the will to see, I've followed this campaign extremely closely, more than any other election I've watched in my lifetime. But that doesn't mean I'm somehow blind to facts or anything like that. I simply have different opinions is all? :dunno:

But it's little things like this that add up. Little things implying that Trump voters are blind, or outright refusing to see things, or that we are being duped somehow.... I'll just repeat what I've said all along, and then I'll remain with that - I've never really had an issue with anyone who liked any of the 16 other candidates, and still don't. I don't hold any anger or animosity. Regardless of who other folks supported, I don't think any of them are less intelligent or somehow not seeing things the 'right' way.

I would have assumed that "anti-Trump" was a slogan towards Donald J. Trump - not Donald J. Trump and any of his supporters that disagree with me.

It has little to do with intelligence and more to do with desperation and placing blind hope in someone, anyone, that promises a 'fix' to the path we're on. Only problem is....the path we're on is due to big government and liberal regulations. Donald Trump has never seen a big government program that, like a true liberal, he didn't just luv. How the hell is he going to "fix" anything with that mindset? (rhetorical question, of course)

[DLT]

I'm sorry if my initial response came off snotty. It's difficult at times when I get hit with various lines that question certain things about me, simply because I support Trump. It's mostly in Yahoo comments that I get abused. :) But I post at a couple of other forums to the same treatment. But I do understand folks frustration with Trump, and perhaps even anger now that he is likely the nominee.

We're like a family that snarks and fights at family reunions....but still...

family. No biggie.

We can agree to disagree and do it with "passion". :laugh:

[DLT]

I'm not sure. The Dems/MSM made sure we got two sure losers the last 2 elections. Looks like the same old game plan to. Now as far as going out and voting for him? I doubt it. Independents don't get vote in a lot of states in the primaries. I don't. And voting cross-party cancels your vote basically.

Remember who and what you're dealing with. Dishonest opportunist liberals. Folks that vote 'for or in place of' the already dead. Folks that magically produce thousands of 'missing ballots'...all for Democrats, of course. Folks that are willing to search for Dem votes through hundreds of thousands of dangling, hanging and otherwise "chads". Corrupt, crooked and dishonest to the core, IOW. Crossover voting in open primaries is a fact. It's how they skew the GOP results and help choose our next RINO candidate. Like...

Trump, for instance. And all in the name of being a patriot and saving America. :salute:

God help us (again).

[Gunny]

While I do agree that the RNC holds a fair amount of responsibility, I hold the politicians more responsible - and it pisses me off to no end when I think about getting screwed by them, and makes me want to get term limits going more than ever. Some have said that it has been tried by the States and has not worked out like some would expect, so I don't know. But it should at least be available to those who screw over their constituents, perhaps a certain amount of times.

What would it take to get the term limits installed in congress?

I'm all on board for term limits and NO 5 figure retirements.

[jimnyc]

It has little to do with intelligence and more to do with desperation and placing blind hope in someone, anyone, that promises a 'fix' to the path we're on. Only problem is....the path we're on is due to big government and liberal regulations. Donald Trump has never seen a big government program that, like a true liberal, he didn't just luv. How the hell is he going to "fix" anything with that mindset? (rhetorical question, of course)

Hate to be the bearer of bad news again, but I'm not even remotely desperate in any way. But do you see what I'm getting at? Sure, Trump is discussed, but seems like every post from folks has to get some sort of dig in at those who support Trump as well. I think I'm one of the only ones who is not being emotional about all of this stuff. It seems folks are running high on emotions and posting as such. I'm trying to avoid any negativity and avoid it before it even has a chance to start. I do appreciate your opinion on Trump though!!

[jimnyc]

We're like a family that snarks and fights at family reunions....but still...

family. No biggie.

We can agree to disagree and do it with "passion". :laugh:

Now that I like! That's how I like to describe things at times too! But you may not like my REAL family, we're some evil bastards!! :laugh:

[DLT]

I'm all on board for term limits and NO 5 figure retirements.

Term limits? Hell....we can't even force the aholes in Congress to endure the same laws they force upon us, the peons whose taxes pay their salaries (in the real world, that would be called 'their bosses').

When they exempted themselves AND THEIR STAFF from the Affordable Care Act due to unaffordability...... it should have been pitchfork, tar and feather (and impeachment) time. It didn't happen then and now I'm resigned to the fact that it never will happen.

Bend over and enjoy the screwin we'll be getting from now on. Might as well.

[Gunny]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news again, but I'm not even remotely desperate in any way. But do you see what I'm getting at? Sure, Trump is discussed, but seems like every post from folks has to get some sort of dig in at those who support Trump as well. I think I'm one of the only ones who is not being emotional about all of this stuff. It seems folks are running high on emotions and posting as such. I'm trying to avoid any negativity and avoid it before it even has a chance to start. I do appreciate your opinion on Trump though!!

Really? I'm not emotional at all about it. I'm calculating. I think I was emotional once. I just don't remember when. :laugh: I've honestly detached myself from this. I'm voting against the Dems. End of story. My threads/posts on Trump are all over this board from last year. THAT was the time to change course. Too late now. Now it's time to consolidate the remainder of the command and try to win.

[DLT]

Now that I like! That's how I like to describe things at times too! But you may not like my REAL family, we're some evil bastards!! :laugh:

Lol! I have a really bad temper and a penchant/tendency to say exactly what's on my mind (Sagittarius trait). Needless to say, my real family has had some very interesting 'dinners'....hehe.

Once told a Brit bf of my cousin who was bitching about American schools vs. UK ones that perhaps he should return home, post haste...and why is he still here in the USA? It was a Thanksgiving meal, btw. Hey....I just said what others were thinking but didn't have the ballz to say out loud! lolol

[Gunny]

Lol! I have a really bad temper and a penchant/tendency to say exactly what's on my mind (Sagittarius trait). Needless to say, my real family has had some very interesting 'dinners'....hehe.

Once told a Brit bf of my cousin who was bitching about American schools vs. UK ones that perhaps he should return home, post haste...and why is he still here in the USA? It was a Thanksgiving meal, btw. Hey....I just said what others were thinking but didn't have the ballz to say out loud! lolol

Is that what's wrong with us? I'm Sagittarius.

[gabosaurus]

I would like to see Trump and Hillary answer a few questions that are on interest to many. Instead of merely spouting platitudes.

Will you be cutting military pensions? Trump has hinted that pensions and retirement benefits might have to be "adjusted."
What is your plan to clean up the mess that is the VA? Or will you just sweep the problems under the rug like past presidents?
Developing new weapons and expanding current ones would great benefit contractors and lobbyists. How do you stand on increasing pay and benefits to current military members and their families?

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Lol! I have a really bad temper and a penchant/tendency to say exactly what's on my mind (Sagittarius trait). Needless to say, my real family has had some very interesting 'dinners'....hehe.

Once told a Brit bf of my cousin who was bitching about American schools vs. UK ones that perhaps he should return home, post haste...and why is he still here in the USA? It was a Thanksgiving meal, btw. Hey....I just said what others were thinking but didn't have the ballz to say out loud! lolol

I get the same grief for doing exactly that far too often.
My family tells me--Robert, please use a little "tact", I reply-- "no thanks I like a big hammer and long nails". :laugh:-Tyr

[Elessar]

What would it take to get the term limits installed in congress?

Likely an Amendment to the Constitution. I doubt one would
pass, though. There are far too many good representatives there
to boot them due to the scum-bags.

Continuity comes to mind also.

[Black Diamond]

Likely an Amendment to the Constitution. I doubt one would
pass, though. There are far too many good representatives there
to boot them due to the scum-bags.

Continuity comes to mind also.

I'm amazed the 25th amendment passed. Given what it takes to amend....

[Drummond]

Some of us have been holding our nose and voting for that "lesser evil" for over two decades now. All to no avail. We're sick of having to do that. And once again, we see the writing on the wall where the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory by choosing a "not conservative" candidate.

The FACT that Trump was, until 2011, a liberal NY Democrat, is a clear indication of the "why" he has deliberately (seemingly) alienated so many folks on the right. He's not supposed to win in November. He has, in the process....however, managed to destroy the GOP from within (also seemingly, since he's not really one of em). I liken it to a 'twofer' for Hillary and the Democrats.

Just my two cents.

I can only see this from my perspective of a media universally hostile to Trump ... and the reason they're hostile (.. so they say ..) is because he is seen to take, according to them, 'very extreme' Right wing positions. Nobody here is going to believe he has a liberal bone in his body.

For myself, I say ... 1. I like him because he's such a plain speaker, and 2. He isn't afraid of taking up causes that defy political correctness imperatives. He comes across as a figure who'll do what's right, whether or not he earns PC-based popularity from it.

I'd say the very same about Margaret Thatcher and her politics, and style of leadership. She proved to be a truly stellar political Leader of the 20th century.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

I can only see this from my perspective of a media universally hostile to Trump ... and the reason they're hostile (.. so they say ..) is because he is seen to take, according to them, 'very extreme' Right wing positions. Nobody here is going to believe he has a liberal bone in his body.

For myself, I say ... 1. I like him because he's such a plain speaker, and 2. He isn't afraid of taking up causes that defy political correctness imperatives. He comes across as a figure who'll do what's right, whether or not he earns PC-based popularity from it.

I'd say the very same about Margaret Thatcher and her politics, and style of leadership. She proved to be a truly stellar political Leader of the 20th century.
ahhhh, but those with the crystal balls say they see him doing terrible things--while most of those saying such conveniently omit casting the same future predictions on Hillary--the winner if Trump is shunned.
Amazing tis it not???
Many even say they will not vote for Trump and do not care if that puts Hildabest in charge!!
Yet claim to be right wing--to that I say bullshit..
No true right-winger wants that corrupt, socialist monster in charge!!--TYR

[Kathianne]

ahhhh, but those with the crystal balls say they see him doing terrible things--while most of those saying such conveniently omit casting the same future predictions on Hillary--the winner if Trump is shunned.
Amazing tis it not???
Many even say they will not vote for Trump and do not care if that puts Hildabest in charge!!
Yet claim to be right wing--to that I say bullshit..
No true right-winger wants that corrupt, socialist monster in charge!!--TYR

Yet, those voting for Trump are just hoping they are not:
electing a socialist monster in charge!!--TYR

I'm not claiming to be 'right wing' never have, I am though conservative.

[Gunny]

ahhhh, but those with the crystal balls say they see him doing terrible things--while most of those saying such conveniently omit casting the same future predictions on Hillary--the winner if Trump is shunned.
Amazing tis it not???
Many even say they will not vote for Trump and do not care if that puts Hildabest in charge!!
Yet claim to be right wing--to that I say bullshit..
No true right-winger wants that corrupt, socialist monster in charge!!--TYR

I'm voting against Hillary. That simple.

It doesn't take a crystal ball though to see how he goes loose cannon every time he's baited. He needs to learn to just STFU. And if I have to listen to double adjectives for 4 years I'm gonna duct tape his mouth myself. :laugh:

[Black Diamond]

Yet, those voting for Trump are just hoping they are not electing a socialist monster in charge!!


[/]

I had the same audacity of Hope when I pulled the lever for Romney.

[revelarts]

I'm with Kath,
I'm conservative and constitutional and i don't see much to recommend TRUMP over Hilly.
As some have mentioned the choice is like picking your cancer, prostate or brain.

Let's say I can get beyond Trump's douch bag behavior and talk and get to his policies.
The only thing "conservative" that I almost trust Trump on are the 2nd amendment issues. I'd like to hope he's sincere on trying to post pro-life judges but i've got ZERO to base that hope on but his word. which doesn't seem that firm.

Other than that what are his "conservative" policies. The ability to talk trash to muslims? The ability to talk trash about illegal aliens?
I've mentioned that many of his proposals against both groups are unconstitutional so he can't do them legally (banning, torture, spying, unilateral presidential military attacks, denying "anchor babies" citizenship, shutting down the internet) . I've been assured by his supporters that he's NOT going to go against the constitution. OK, fine lets say he's not. If he's not then he's not going to do much more than any other presidents on those fronts.
Other than the wall. The BS wall that won't work. (Even he said all they'll need are ladders and ropes.) Similar to the TSA it will be useless and even a worse gov't money pit. It will only make some people "feel better". Like for some having the light on at night in the bedroom assures them they'll be less bothered by criminals.
Plus he's going to be using eminent domain to take land from 1000s of Texans to build the thing.

He says he's going to stop the cronyism in Washington . GREAT.. how's that exactly please?

He says ...rightly.. that China has us at an economic disadvantage trade wise. his solution ..."Tariffs".
And he proposes even more health care. which means more gov't.
This is conservative?

He waves his mother's Bible around but he seems OK allowing transgender/crossdressing bathrooms and he's wishy washy on homosexual marriage. But he assures us we'll all be able to say "Merry Christmas".

conservative?

sorry, folks, show me the conservative beef here. His strongest proposals/promises are unconstitutional.
His fiscal conservative message has little to do with smaller gov't. and his social conservative message is weak at best.

So is middle school style trash talking muslims, immigrants and not talking PC but not really doing anything effective the new conservatism?

How about giving the 'Never Trump' people some strait forward rock solid conservative points ...not based on Trumps version of "hope and change"... to hang a vote on.
But if all you've got is "he's not Hillary" then don't get mad when conservatives point out Trump's conservative lameness and RINOess and say we'll have no part of it... been there done that.

[Elessar]

I can only see this from my perspective of a media universally hostile to Trump ... and the reason they're hostile (.. so they say ..) is because he is seen to take, according to them, 'very extreme' Right wing positions. Nobody here is going to believe he has a liberal bone in his body.

For myself, I say ... 1. I like him because he's such a plain speaker, and 2. He isn't afraid of taking up causes that defy political correctness imperatives. He comes across as a figure who'll do what's right, whether or not he earns PC-based popularity from it.

I'd say the very same about Margaret Thatcher and her politics, and style of leadership. She proved to be a truly stellar political Leader of the 20th century.

Once again, @Drummond (http://www.debatepolicy.com/member.php?u=2287), you eloquently hit the nail squarely on the head.

[Elessar]

Here is an interesting perspective from a former candidate, Ralph Nader.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/05/13/ralph-nader-donald-trump-has-done-some-good-hillary-clintons/21376809/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl4%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D626758094 _htmlws-main-bb

[pete311]

More Trump lies. Get used to it.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/13/politics/donald-trump-recording-john-miller-barron-fake-press/index.html

[Drummond]

Yet, those voting for Trump are just hoping they are not:
electing a socialist monster in charge!!--TYR

I'm not claiming to be 'right wing' never have, I am though conservative.


As a Conservative, you'll surely want to be as effective as possible in doing your bit to oust the current Socialist trash in power in America ?

This means making your vote count to that goal .. I suggest !!!

[Elessar]

More Trump lies. Get used to it.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/13/politics/donald-trump-recording-john-miller-barron-fake-press/index.html

You can really be pathetic, Pete.

State your case for a change. Just a link does not
show much of an opinion.

[Black Diamond]

You can really be pathetic, Pete.

State your case for a change. Just a link does not
show much of an opinion.

He lied. Mo proof is needed. Oh and you can keep your plan. :lol:

[Elessar]

As a Conservative, you'll surely want to be as effective as possible in doing your bit to oust the current Socialist trash in power in America ?

This means making your vote count to that goal .. I suggest !!!

Damned if you aren't one of the wisest in this forum!

Hat's off to you, Limey!:laugh: