Seriously Wondering

[Kathianne]

I am in a category of 1 or maybe 2, if hjmick is still with me.

Now if my understanding of many Trump supporters is correct, getting rid of the old folks-the Bushes, Graham, Perry, Matalin, Ryan, National Review types, Krauthammer, Will, etc., will all be good, right?

So, how is it you envision The New GOP, the one that many will not be part of? What will it look like?

[Black Diamond]

Hopefully free of people who add $2 trillion to the national debt.

[Kathianne]

Hopefully free of people who add $2 trillion to the national debt.

What does that have to do with the New GOP?

[Black Diamond]

What does that have to do with the New GOP?

Apparently you missed the Omnibus vote. No problem. Rubio did, too.

[Kathianne]

Apparently you missed the Omnibus vote. No problem. Rubio did, too.

Ok. People call me cryptic. :rolleyes:

[Gunny]

I am in a category of 1 or maybe 2, if hjmick is still with me.

Now if my understanding of many Trump supporters is correct, getting rid of the old folks-the Bushes, Graham, Perry, Matalin, Ryan, National Review types, Krauthammer, Will, etc., will all be good, right?

So, how is it you envision The New GOP, the one that many will not be part of? What will it look like?

So where do YOU start? I start at the bottom and work my way up. Build a base. The system IS broken, but it's our fault as much or more than anyone else's. And no offense, but you're part of the problem. Instead of waiting until it's too late to fix, how about we start at the ground up? Fix the system and put the right people in.

We try to act like we're so much smarter than the rest but the fact is, they're the ones in power.

[Kathianne]

So where do YOU start? I start at the bottom and work my way up. Build a base. The system IS broken, but it's our fault as much or more than anyone else's. And no offense, but you're part of the problem. Instead of waiting until it's too late to fix, how about we start at the ground up? Fix the system and put the right people in.

We try to act like we're so much smarter than the rest but the fact is, they're the ones in power.

I've said from the beginning that the party would break, I was blamed for what would come then too so no problem.

I just wonder what is envisioned with this new 'non-conservative conservative' GOP. Trump himself said there are some he doesn't want on his 'train,' and I've no doubt that many if not all his supporters are happy to get rid of those that don't want to be a part of the choo choo.

By the way, I think the DNC is also running into the same, they are being pulled apart by the far left.

By becoming independent I'll be with the majority of voters, I was late getting on that one.

[Black Diamond]

I've said from the beginning that the party would break, I was blamed for what would come then too so no problem.

I just wonder what is envisioned with this new 'non-conservative conservative' GOP. Trump himself said there are some he doesn't want on his 'train,' and I've no doubt that many if not all his supporters are happy to get rid of those that don't want to be a part of the choo choo.

By the way, I think the DNC is also running into the same, they are being pulled apart by the far left.

By becoming independent I'll be with the majority of voters, I was late getting on that one.

I don't know that the GOP is going to change. They and the Democrats will have to work with President Trump. We will see which side gives him more resistance. I don't see trump changing the establishment. He will simply work with it. Or against it if you prefer.

[Kathianne]

I don't know that the GOP is going to change. They and the Democrats will have to work with President Trump. We will see which side gives him more resistance. I don't see trump changing the establishment. He will simply work with it. Or against it if you prefer.

You missed the point, the GOP is now Trump's. It's not what it was and nor has the same folks in it. Some have left, some will try to work with him, good luck with that.

Conservative independents have mostly gone to the GOP, which kept that party competitive. My guess is that many will not want to be part of the new GOP. The DNC doesn't really attract them either. In the long haul there will have to be some party they can support.

[fj1200]

Apparently you missed the Omnibus vote. No problem. Rubio did, too.

And those left would do what differently?

[jimnyc]

I am in a category of 1 or maybe 2, if hjmick is still with me.

Now if my understanding of many Trump supporters is correct, getting rid of the old folks-the Bushes, Graham, Perry, Matalin, Ryan, National Review types, Krauthammer, Will, etc., will all be good, right?

So, how is it you envision The New GOP, the one that many will not be part of? What will it look like?

I can only speak for myself...

I don't want anyone to leave. I didn't want anyone to leave. I never asked anyone to leave. I don't think it's a good thing, but that's their choice if someone decides to leave any party for that fact. I don't envision a "new GOP" because that's something that was never a goal. Should it happen, I'll have to wait and see what exactly plays out. Myself? As a result of a lot of things, I was thinking about leaving the party as well, and simply not going down the party line anymore, because they obviously, as a party, have different goals than the people who vote them in have.

[jimnyc]

You missed the point, the GOP is now Trump's. It's not what it was and nor has the same folks in it. Some have left, some will try to work with him, good luck with that.

Conservative independents have mostly gone to the GOP, which kept that party competitive. My guess is that many will not want to be part of the new GOP. The DNC doesn't really attract them either. In the long haul there will have to be some party they can support.

The GOP is not "Trump's". He is a candidate, no more than that. The party itself, many of them anyway, are still rejecting him, so I don't see it at all as his party. And even should he win the presidency, I still wouldn't see it as his party. No single person owns/runs any party.

[Abbey Marie]

Kath, I think you give the masses too much credit. I believe that most people run on "feelings" or maybe "gut feelings", and don't put a tenth of the thought people on this board put into political choices.

As for me, you know I'm at the "Well, he's the nominee" stage. And I have nothing but respect and admiration for George W.

[Black Diamond]

And those left would do what differently?

I have the audacity of Hope.

[Gunny]

I've said from the beginning that the party would break, I was blamed for what would come then too so no problem.

I just wonder what is envisioned with this new 'non-conservative conservative' GOP. Trump himself said there are some he doesn't want on his 'train,' and I've no doubt that many if not all his supporters are happy to get rid of those that don't want to be a part of the choo choo.

By the way, I think the DNC is also running into the same, they are being pulled apart by the far left.

By becoming independent I'll be with the majority of voters, I was late getting on that one.

Hmmm. I haven't blamed you personally for anything. Trump is digging his own grave. There's the people he has pissed off, and the people he will. I don't consider him conservative at all. I've been a registered independent since 1979. I think we agree on principle.

Where we disagree is on your method. Voting third party is a waste of a vote. We don't have a viable 3rd party. It amounts to giving Clinton the presidency. Trump is a disaster. He's another Jimmy Carter whose own party won't support him. Which means they'll stop him.

Hitlery on the other hand will have the full support of all the lefwingnut lemmings. A dumb consolidated front can always beat a fragmented front.

[fj1200]

I have the audacity of Hope.

That always works well. :scared:

[Elessar]

I am in a category of 1 or maybe 2, if hjmick is still with me.

Now if my understanding of many Trump supporters is correct, getting rid of the old folks-the Bushes, Graham, Perry, Matalin, Ryan, National Review types, Krauthammer, Will, etc., will all be good, right?

So, how is it you envision The New GOP, the one that many will not be part of? What will it look like?

Outright getting rid of them at this stage is to cut the legs out from under any
effort to keep Clinton out.

Some of them, nay, many of them have good experience and knowledge that
could be invaluable.

It's up to them to draw together and not fracture.

[Elessar]

Kath, I think you give the masses too much credit. I believe that most people run on "feelings" or maybe "gut feelings", and don't put a tenth of the thought people on this board put into political choices.

As for me, you know I'm at the "Well, he's the nominee" stage. And I have nothing but respect and admiration for George W.

I do too, and always will.

He had some terrible sh** happen on his watch that was not necessarily
of his doing.

He bound up a lot of things that were loose ends and improved some
policies and procedures.

After 9/11, he consolidated Disaster Preparedness, finding that NYC had
two separate Incident Command Centers that did not coordinate. He also
determined that none of the Intel agencies shared info with others that may
have, if joined together, prevented that event. That got changed quickly.

Katrina was not his fault, although Liberals insist it is. The Feds cannot step
in and evacuate, period. Especially prior to the event. He made statements
prior to landfall, echoing NOAA's warnings. Louisiana was negligent in preparation
and did not run in accord with the National Disaster Preparedness plan that
was established after 9/11.

The faulty Intel of WMD? 75% of the civilized world believed the Intel was accurate.
He and the U.K. /Commonwealth were the only ones with the balls to do something.
The U.N. and several Euro nations were tied in with the Food for Oil scheme.

[Gunny]

I do too, and always will.

He had some terrible sh** happen on his watch that was not necessarily
of his doing.

He bound up a lot of things that were loose ends and improved some
policies and procedures.

After 9/11, he consolidated Disaster Preparedness, finding that NYC had
two separate Incident Command Centers that did not coordinate. He also
determined that none of the Intel agencies shared info with others that may
have, if joined together, prevented that event. That got changed quickly.

Katrina was not his fault, although Liberals insist it is. The Feds cannot step
in and evacuate, period. Especially prior to the event. He made statements
prior to landfall, echoing NOAA's warnings. Louisiana was negligent in preparation
and did not run in accord with the National Disaster Preparedness plan that
was established after 9/11.

The faulty Intel of WMD? 75% of the civilized world believed the Intel was accurate.
He and the U.K. /Commonwealth were the only ones with the balls to do something.
The U.N. and several Euro nations were tied in with the Food for Oil scheme.

You covered a lot of territory.

One, WE sold the damned WMD's to him. Ain't hard to figure out they had them.

And in case you missed it, Bush had a hurricane machine to cause Katrina. Ask Chavez. Idiot MF-er. Then you can ask why the dumbass governor wouldn't request help from the federal government until it was too late. Oh yeah. She was a dem. Then she and the MSM blamed Bush for the shit. Idiot Mf-er's #2.

[NightTrain]

I am in a category of 1 or maybe 2, if hjmick is still with me.

Now if my understanding of many Trump supporters is correct, getting rid of the old folks-the Bushes, Graham, Perry, Matalin, Ryan, National Review types, Krauthammer, Will, etc., will all be good, right?

So, how is it you envision The New GOP, the one that many will not be part of? What will it look like?

Well, speaking for myself, of course...

The way things have been for the last 8 years has been intolerable. We've watched our Republicans stand by idly while we watched the country go to hell in the face of PC hand wringing.

It seems they've been petrified of speaking out and acting against liberal agendas for fear of being called 'intolerant' or whatever the new catch phrase the left invents. Boehner is forever a poster child of this, and McConnell is right there with him IMO. I had high hopes of Ryan taking the lead, but so far that hasn't materialized.

Along comes Trump saying outrageous things, and yes - it was a breath of fresh air for someone gunning for the WH to say what's on his mind. To hell with all those ankle-biters, this is how he saw it. Until he jumped in and started throwing elbows, not ONE of the other 15 candidates said anything bold or talked about controversial topics like true immigration reform, like kicking out all the illegals and keeping them out. All of the others said the plain old dreary & bland things that spineless politicians say and nothing was going to change. We MUST be PC, and never offend others for fear of being labeled, right?

Yeah, the others did wake up and start speaking out, but it was a desperate maneuver to try to counter Trump - their hearts weren't in it. And not many voters were fooled, which is why the poseurs soon were sunk.

So, if getting rid of the 'establishment' means weeding out the spineless politicians, then yes, I'm for it. Dammit, stand up and fight! Do something! We've had 8 years of almost zero effort to counter a runaway President and it's infuriating.

Trump is not perfect, everyone knows that. Teddy Roosevelt would be ideal, but we cant' have him - but you can bet your last dollar that he'd be up on that stage thundering about what's wrong and I don't think he'd really give much of a damn of what the liberals thought of him and his ideas.

The way I see it, the GOP can either grow a spine or they can go the way of the dinosaur. I think they've begun realizing how frustrated people like me are with their performance, and that's why Trump has crushed all the other contenders.

He's going to absolutely wreck Hellary and I'm really looking forward to the show.

[Elessar]

You covered a lot of territory.

One, WE sold the damned WMD's to him. Ain't hard to figure out they had them.

And in case you missed it, Bush had a hurricane machine to cause Katrina. Ask Chavez. Idiot MF-er. Then you can ask why the dumbass governor wouldn't request help from the federal government until it was too late. Oh yeah. She was a dem. Then she and the MSM blamed Bush for the shit. Idiot Mf-er's #2.

The first is a no-shitter!

Hell, she did not even know where the State's National Guard was!

If it wasn't for the Coast Guard and Air Force going in immediately, things
would have ended up far worse. Navy and USMC units had to wait for
approval, as per Federal Law, to assist. This DID happen quickly, though.

The lax governments in the state are at fault, period!

[Elessar]

Well, speaking for myself, of course...

The way things have been for the last 8 years has been intolerable. We've watched our Republicans stand by idly while we watched the country go to hell in the face of PC hand wringing.

Trump is not perfect, everyone knows that. Teddy Roosevelt would be ideal, but we cant' have him - but you can bet your last dollar that he'd be up on that stage thundering about what's wrong and I don't think he'd really give much of a damn of what the liberals thought of him and his ideas.

He's going to absolutely wreck Hellary and I'm really looking forward to the show.

Note: Snipped for brevity.

Excellent, NT!

[Kathianne]

Kath, I think you give the masses too much credit. I believe that most people run on "feelings" or maybe "gut feelings", and don't put a tenth of the thought people on this board put into political choices.

As for me, you know I'm at the "Well, he's the nominee" stage. And I have nothing but respect and admiration for George W.

That may be, however I'm not speaking of the masses, they will either get on the train or stay home or vote Hillary if angry.

I'm actually speaking about a small number of folks, that think about, care, and understand the Constitutional Republic that we have. Many are Libertarians, but as a few have pointed out, some of their ideas don't quite mesh up with are a bit more conservative on things like hot spots around the globe, open borders, and drugs. Hell I can even go for the drug bit, as far as states would go. The other things, not so much. Truth is, not going to change that party much-they are happy being a bit unto themselves.

It's a segment of the Independents that have been left adrift by both major parties. Most of those were economic conservatives from the Democrat side and social conservatives from the Right. From the past 2 or 3 elections seem more are from the Conservative side than the Liberal side, this election may well be the one that really opens up the possibility for a challenge on the right for the next elections.

Last year when I said a schism was coming on the GOP side, most just said to calm down, it would be fine. Well for me and obviously some others, it's not. So we will watch what happens going forward, there's nothing else to do.

[Kathianne]

Well, speaking for myself, of course...

The way things have been for the last 8 years has been intolerable. We've watched our Republicans stand by idly while we watched the country go to hell in the face of PC hand wringing.

It seems they've been petrified of speaking out and acting against liberal agendas for fear of being called 'intolerant' or whatever the new catch phrase the left invents. Boehner is forever a poster child of this, and McConnell is right there with him IMO. I had high hopes of Ryan taking the lead, but so far that hasn't materialized.

Along comes Trump saying outrageous things, and yes - it was a breath of fresh air for someone gunning for the WH to say what's on his mind. To hell with all those ankle-biters, this is how he saw it. Until he jumped in and started throwing elbows, not ONE of the other 15 candidates said anything bold or talked about controversial topics like true immigration reform, like kicking out all the illegals and keeping them out. All of the others said the plain old dreary & bland things that spineless politicians say and nothing was going to change. We MUST be PC, and never offend others for fear of being labeled, right?

Yeah, the others did wake up and start speaking out, but it was a desperate maneuver to try to counter Trump - their hearts weren't in it. And not many voters were fooled, which is why the poseurs soon were sunk.

So, if getting rid of the 'establishment' means weeding out the spineless politicians, then yes, I'm for it. Dammit, stand up and fight! Do something! We've had 8 years of almost zero effort to counter a runaway President and it's infuriating.

Trump is not perfect, everyone knows that. Teddy Roosevelt would be ideal, but we cant' have him - but you can bet your last dollar that he'd be up on that stage thundering about what's wrong and I don't think he'd really give much of a damn of what the liberals thought of him and his ideas.

The way I see it, the GOP can either grow a spine or they can go the way of the dinosaur. I think they've begun realizing how frustrated people like me are with their performance, and that's why Trump has crushed all the other contenders.

He's going to absolutely wreck Hellary and I'm really looking forward to the show.


I hear what you are saying, the problem with the GOP is they never get out their successes and they never get positive reporting on even their attempts to block Obama or even get around the liberal courts. I get that, have for decades. For those of you that remember way back with GW Bush, my strongest criticism was failure to get his message out and not go all PC. For some reason, a hint of why is Trump's ascendency, the GOP has for decades been trying to project itself as the 'intellectual' party, not the one of the worst of Trump's supporters.

While I too wish the Congressional Republicans had been able to get more done, the truth is they actually stopped, curtailed, and shown spotlights of many of the most egregious acts of Obama. How much? Try googling:

Congressional Republicans block obama

Take a look at the results. That's not even a listing of how many attempts at the whole or parts of Obamacare, the budgets, the Benghazi or Clinton email or Fast and Furious, VA, Chain of Command information investigations.

I know, folks are angry. Have been for a long time. They haven't got the results they wanted, Obama has rammed everything could he can, first with Obamacare, since then through executive actions.

Well, if Hillary gets in will be similar, if Trump gets in he's promised to do the same types of actions-just better. People are just hoping he'll do better in the ways THEY want.

Neither of them are for curtailing executive or federal power. Therein lies the checks that are evident in the Constitution and puts much more control in the voice of the people.

[Gunny]

That may be, however I'm not speaking of the masses, they will either get on the train or stay home or vote Hillary if angry.

I'm actually speaking about a small number of folks, that think about, care, and understand the Constitutional Republic that we have. Many are Libertarians, but as a few have pointed out, some of their ideas don't quite mesh up with are a bit more conservative on things like hot spots around the globe, open borders, and drugs. Hell I can even go for the drug bit, as far as states would go. The other things, not so much. Truth is, not going to change that party much-they are happy being a bit unto themselves.

It's a segment of the Independents that have been left adrift by both major parties. Most of those were economic conservatives from the Democrat side and social conservatives from the Right. From the past 2 or 3 elections seem more are from the Conservative side than the Liberal side, this election may well be the one that really opens up the possibility for a challenge on the right for the next elections.

Last year when I said a schism was coming on the GOP side, most just said to calm down, it would be fine. Well for me and obviously some others, it's not. So we will watch what happens going forward, there's nothing else to do.

Just last year? Crap. This has been coming since the 90s. This election is going to be the same loss it was in 08 and 12. Your "small numbers" are part of the vote. I'm looking for damage control, not the second coming of Christ.

I totally agree with changing the party. The election year is NOT the time to do it and you start from the ground up. I've preached the same stance for this being the 3rd election in a row. The party doesn't listen to the people. Replace the party. Until then, I'm going with the lesser of 2 evils.

[Kathianne]

Just last year? Crap. This has been coming since the 90s. This election is going to be the same loss it was in 08 and 12. Your "small numbers" are part of the vote. I'm looking for damage control, not the second coming of Christ.

I totally agree with changing the party. The election year is NOT the time to do it and you start from the ground up. I've preached the same stance for this being the 3rd election in a row. The party doesn't listen to the people. Replace the party. Until then, I'm going with the lesser of 2 evils.

And you should! Each of us has to do what we think best! I just don't want to be part of a party that has decided where it's soul now is. Not where I am.