Gold Clause

[indago]

From The Associated Press 23 April 2016:
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A federal judge says a group of property owners in Ohio's capital city can collect rent based on the price of gold as part of a century-old agreement. The judge's ruling means rent paid by the company that leases the Commerce Building in downtown Columbus could jump from $6,000 annually to nearly $350,000.
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article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOLD_CLAUSE_RENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-04-23-10-45-38)

Reminds me of the story of Robert Kahre, who paid his employees in gold coin at face value — In other words, if a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable "income" (if any) can only be the face value indicated upon the coin money paid — i.e., $1.00 for a circulating silver dollar or $50 for a circulating gold U.S. coin. Therefore, there was no "taxable income" to report, and nothing was withheld from their wages.

Of course, the Feds didn't care much for this...

article (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366287.shtml)

[indago]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJ3son-ha8

[darin]

From The Associated Press 23 April 2016:
-------------------------------------------------------------
A federal judge says a group of property owners in Ohio's capital city can collect rent based on the price of gold as part of a century-old agreement. The judge's ruling means rent paid by the company that leases the Commerce Building in downtown Columbus could jump from $6,000 annually to nearly $350,000.
-------------------------------------------------------------

article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOLD_CLAUSE_RENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-04-23-10-45-38)

Reminds me of the story of Robert Kahre, who paid his employees in gold coin at face value — In other words, if a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable "income" (if any) can only be the face value indicated upon the coin money paid — i.e., $1.00 for a circulating silver dollar or $50 for a circulating gold U.S. coin. Therefore, there was no "taxable income" to report, and nothing was withheld from their wages.

Of course, the Feds didn't care much for this...

article (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366287.shtml)

I LOVE it.

To me, moving from the gold-standard was tantamount to treason.

[indago]

I LOVE it.

To me, moving from the gold-standard was tantamount to treason.

It was the court system again, and weren't we warned about the courts:

Beware of the doctors of the law who love to walk up and down in long robes, and have a great liking for respectful greeting in the street, the chief seats in our synagogues, and places of honour at feasts. These are the men who eat up the property of widows, while they say long prayers for appearances sake; and they will receive the severest sentence. — Luke 20 v 45 The Bible

[fj1200]

From The Associated Press 23 April 2016:
-------------------------------------------------------------
A federal judge says a group of property owners in Ohio's capital city can collect rent based on the price of gold as part of a century-old agreement. The judge's ruling means rent paid by the company that leases the Commerce Building in downtown Columbus could jump from $6,000 annually to nearly $350,000.
-------------------------------------------------------------

article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOLD_CLAUSE_RENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-04-23-10-45-38)


The ruling last month by Judge George Smith affects rent owed since August 2014, when the property owners sued.

I imagine the property owners will be looking for a new tenant soon.


It was the court system again, and weren't we warned about the courts:

Beware of the doctors of the law who love to walk up and down in long robes, and have a great liking for respectful greeting in the street, the chief seats in our synagogues, and places of honour at feasts. These are the men who eat up the property of widows, while they say long prayers for appearances sake; and they will receive the severest sentence. — Luke 20 v 45 The Bible

What's wrong with the courts as it pertains to the case?

[fj1200]

I LOVE it.

To me, moving from the gold-standard was tantamount to treason.

The gold standard was not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[indago]

What's wrong with the courts as it pertains to the case?

I was responding to: "To me, moving from the gold-standard was tantamount to treason."

[fj1200]

I was responding to: "To me, moving from the gold-standard was tantamount to treason."

:confused: Nixon closed the Gold Window essentially breaking the gold standard and FDR fiddled with the gold price often IIRC.

[indago]

:confused: Nixon closed the Gold Window essentially breaking the gold standard and FDR fiddled with the gold price often IIRC.

But it was the court, in 1883, that broke the mold...

[fj1200]

But it was the court, in 1883, that broke the mold...

Sorry, I'm not picking up the connection your making.

[Gunny]

The gold standard was not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It backed our currency which is now backed by our debt. I don't get why gold is the be-all end-all, but it is. We were taken off the silver standard around 60 or so. We have nothing to back our paper.

[fj1200]

It backed our currency which is now backed by our debt. I don't get why gold is the be-all end-all, but it is. We were taken off the silver standard around 60 or so. We have nothing to back our paper.

Meh. Fiat currency; it does the trick. We've had recessions/depressions and inflation/deflation with, and sometimes because of, the gold standard just as we've had good times/bad times without it. The gold standard is not an end-all be-all but people are nostalgic for earlier times without understanding everything that it meant.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

It backed our currency which is now backed by our debt. I don't get why gold is the be-all end-all, but it is. We were taken off the silver standard around 60 or so. We have nothing to back our paper.

Nothing to back it but our government's integrity, competency, solvency and honor..
Wait-- correct , we having nothing to back it .... :laugh:--Tyr

[indago]

Sorry, I'm not picking up the connection your making.

It was noted in the statement of facts:


Juilliard, a citizen of New York, brought an action against Greenman, a citizen of Connecticut, in the Circuit Court of the United States for the Southern District of New York, alleging that the plaintiff sold and delivered to the defendant, at his special instance and request, one hundred bales of cotton, of the value and for the agreed price of $5,122.90; and that the defendant agreed to pay that sum in cash on the delivery of the cotton, and had not paid the same or any part thereof, except that he had paid the sum of $22.90 on account, and was now justly indebted to the plaintiff therefor in the sum of $5,100; and demanding judgment for this sum with interest and costs. The defendant in his answer admitted the citizenship of the parties, the purchase and delivery of the cotton, and the agreement to pay therefor, as alleged; and averred that after the delivery of the cotton, he offered and tendered to the plaintiff, in full payment, $22.50 in gold coin of the United States, forty cents in silver coin of the United States, and two United States notes, one of the denomination of $5,000, and the other of the denomination of $100, of the description known as United States legal tender notes, purporting by recital thereon to be legal tender, at their respective face values, for all debts, public and private...

Mr. Juilliard refused to accept the notes, and he, therefore, sued for full payment in money. The court declared that he should accept the paper notes in full payment.

[indago]

Supreme Court Justice Stephen J. Field delivered a scathing indictment of his bretheren on the bench in a lengthy dissenting opinion. He began by saying, "From the judgment of the court in this case, and from all the positions advanced in its support, I dissent." He declared:


The question of the power of Congress to impart the quality of legal tender to the notes of the United States, and thus make them money and a standard of value, is not new here. Unfortunately it has been too frequently before the court, and its latest decision, previous to this one, has never been entirely accepted and approved by the country. Nor should this excite surprise; for whenever it is declared that this government, ordained to establish justice, has the power to alter the condition of contracts between private parties, and authorize their payment or discharge in something different from that which the parties stipulated, thus disturbing the relations of commerce and the business of the community generally, the doctrine will not and ought not to be readily accepted. ...If there be anything in the history of the Constitution which can be established with moral certainty, it is that the framers of that instrument intended to prohibit the issue of legal tender notes both by the general government and by the States; and thus prevent interference with the contracts of private parties.

Mr. Justice Field reviewed the distribution of the Continental notes issued during the Revolution; notes which depreciated into practical worthlessness in the hands of those who accepted them, although it was declared by law that they would be accepted at par value with gold and silver coin. Justice Field noted:


...legislative declaration cannot make the promise of a thing the equivalent of the thing itself.

[indago]

Justice Stephen Field then delivered the most scathing indictment of his fellow justices on the bench:


For nearly three-quarters of a century after the adoption of the Constitution, and until the legislation during the recent civil war, no jurist and no statesman of any position in the country ever pretended that a power to impart the quality of legal tender to its notes was vested in the general government. There is no recorded word of even one in favor of its possessing the power. All conceded, as an axiom of constitutional law, that the power did not exist.

[Gunny]

Meh. Fiat currency; it does the trick. We've had recessions/depressions and inflation/deflation with, and sometimes because of, the gold standard just as we've had good times/bad times without it. The gold standard is not an end-all be-all but people are nostalgic for earlier times without understanding everything that it meant.

I'm not defending it one way or the other. Gold has been currency since forever. Like I said, I don't know why. It's a rock to me. But our gold allegedly backs our currency. Otherwise, who gives a crap about it?

I DO get the earlier times thing though. everyone thinks it used to be so wonderful but not the reasons why. Pure luck. Everyone loves the 60s but even as kids we were taught to stop drop and roll in case of nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. We lived in fear.

We still do. They just change the fears.

[fj1200]

It was noted in the statement of facts:

That's not really a relevant decision as it relates to the Federal government going off of the gold standard IMO.

[fj1200]

I'm not defending it one way or the other. Gold has been currency since forever. Like I said, I don't know why. It's a rock to me. But our gold allegedly backs our currency. Otherwise, who gives a crap about it?

I DO get the earlier times thing though. everyone thinks it used to be so wonderful but not the reasons why. Pure luck. Everyone loves the 60s but even as kids we were taught to stop drop and roll in case of nuclear attack by the Soviet Union. We lived in fear.

We still do. They just change the fears.

Gold has been a currency because it's pretty and scarce but it could be looked at as a fiat rock too; its value can fluctuate just like anything else. But our gold no longer backs our currency anyway.

[Gunny]

Gold has been a currency because it's pretty and scarce but it could be looked at as a fiat rock too; its value can fluctuate just like anything else. But our gold no longer backs our currency anyway.

I am aware it no longer backs our currency. I think I said that. Real gold is actually not very pretty. My point is what good is the currency without something of value to back it. We value gold. Anyone can print a piece of paper.

[indago]

That's not really a relevant decision as it relates to the Federal government going off of the gold standard IMO.

Why isn't it?

[indago]

Gold has been a currency because it's pretty and scarce...

Now, tell us the REAL reason that "Gold has been a currency"...

[Gunny]

Now, tell us the REAL reason that "Gold has been a currency"...

I've never figured it out. Silver either. Silver is almost an ooze. It has to have nickel in it or it won't last a minute.

[fj1200]

I am aware it no longer backs our currency. I think I said that. Real gold is actually not very pretty. My point is what good is the currency without something of value to back it. We value gold. Anyone can print a piece of paper.

Not just anybody can print a greenback. We currently value the dollar "without something of value to back it." We just do. There is a scarcity of dollars, if they were to print more then the value of it would go down.


Why isn't it?

It's a decision that decided how a debt could be paid not how the government could make a choice about the gold standard.


Now, tell us the REAL reason that "Gold has been a currency"...

Gold is superior to wampum. :dunno:


I've never figured it out. Silver either. Silver is almost an ooze. It has to have nickel in it or it won't last a minute.

Almost anything can be a currency, it just has to be accepted.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/history-money.html

[indago]

It's a decision that decided how a debt could be paid not how the government could make a choice about the gold standard.

The decision forced upon an individual payment in depreciated government paper money ("Greenbacks").




Gold is superior to wampum.

That's not the correct answer.



.

[Gunny]

Not just anybody can print a greenback. We currently value the dollar "without something of value to back it." We just do. There is a scarcity of dollars, if they were to print more then the value of it would go down.



It's a decision that decided how a debt could be paid not how the government could make a choice about the gold standard.



Gold is superior to wampum. :dunno:



Almost anything can be a currency, it just has to be accepted.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/history-money.html

Duh. I get that, Einstein. I kind of try to think beyond the obvious about most things. Like why mankind has always been enthralled with sparkly crap and considered it valuable. Kind of like dumb dudes staring into a fire. You're night blind doing that.

I just don't get it.

[fj1200]

The decision forced upon an individual payment in depreciated government paper money ("Greenbacks").

And still not relevant to the issue of the gold standard.


That's not the correct answer.

Sure it is. History agrees.

[fj1200]

Duh. I get that, Einstein. I kind of try to think beyond the obvious about most things. Like why mankind has always been enthralled with sparkly crap and considered it valuable. Kind of like dumb dudes staring into a fire. You're night blind doing that.

I just don't get it.

You don't have to get it, you just have to get it. :poke:

Einstein? I'll take that. :salute:

You should watch this:

The Ascent of Money (http://www.pbs.org/show/ascent-of-money/)

You'll like it, it's got history 'n stuff.

[indago]

And still not relevant to the issue of the gold standard.

Yes it is!




Sure it is. History agrees.

No it doesn't!

[fj1200]

Yes it is!

No it doesn't!

:dunno:

[indago]

:dunno:

Your confusion is of your own making...

[fj1200]

Your confusion is of your own making...

This is :confused: This is :dunno: WTF you're on about now.

[Gunny]

This is :confused: This is :dunno: WTF you're on about now.

Give him time. He'll post a cliche written by someone else at you.:laugh:

[indago]

Give him time. He'll post a cliche written by someone else at you.:laugh:

Beats your incoherent rambling rants...