I don't get it.............

[nevadamedic]

We just had a major victory in Iraq. We captured the leader of AQ for Iraq. He has confirmed that Bin Laden and his number two man is in Pakistan. After 9/11 we vowed to do anything to get Bin Laden and go into any country harboring him. Now that we know where he is, why don't we go after him or go after that Government? It makes no sense. We know where he is and we could have another major voctory in this war. Granted it wont stop AQ but it would put a major and I mean major dent into it. It would be like cutting off a chickens head, yea it will run around for a few seconds but there is no direction and will die shortly after.

[darin]

So - we've had this guy since 4 July, according to reports. Do you know what it takes to settle with other Gubbments about our operations in their AORs? Relax - we'll get him

:)

[nevadamedic]

So - we've had this guy since 4 July, according to reports. Do you know what it takes to settle with other Gubbments about our operations in their AORs? Relax - we'll get him

:)

Ive relaxed and waited since 2001, I want this guy roasting on a stick. We should have gone in the second we found out where he is.

[darin]

(shrug). That's now reality though.

[glockmail]

I think we ought to round up a few thousand really rabid queers and parachute them in where bin Laden is hidden, packed with Barbara Streisand and Barry Manilow CDs and plenty of KY, and let them do their thing. Bin Laden will have to show his face to start picking them off, and when he does we drop a few 500 pounders on him.

[nevadamedic]

I think we ought to round up a few thousand really rabid queers and parachute them in where bin Laden is hidden, packed with Barbara Streisand and Barry Manilow CDs and plenty of KY, and let them do their thing. Bin Laden will have to show his face to start picking them off, and when he does we drop a few 500 pounders on him.

I'm sure we have a location from the guy we picked up in Iraq, so I don't see why we don't launch an air attack and light that country up like a christmas tree. They need to be taught a lesson for harboring terrorists and their leaders.

[nevadamedic]

The more we aggressivly go after countries that harbor terrorists the more countries will realize that they don't want that and will turn on the terrorists themselves and not let them stay or even turn them over to us.

[nevadamedic]

What happens to Bin Laden when we actually get him? Does he go on trial like Saddam did or does he get put to death immediatly? If he does have to go on trial why not do the trial in his absence so when we get him he gets put right to death. We have done that with several murderers like that Ira Einhorn from New York. I just really wanna see this guy fry, im hoping if they do execute him that it will be done on live tv.

[gabosaurus]

We don't go after bin Laden because we don't want to catch him. Capturing bin Laden would remove the Bushies of their favorite symbol of terrorism. Very few people know who the No. 2 person in AQ is. Nor do they care. The guy doesn't scare them, because he is not the evil cartoonish character that bin Laden has been made into.
bin Laden needs to remain at large to justify the Bushies' phony baloney "war on terror." And thus their phony reasons for remaining in Iraq.
The Bushies need their daily blood and death fix too much to end things.

[nevadamedic]

We don't go after bin Laden because we don't want to catch him. Capturing bin Laden would remove the Bushies of their favorite symbol of terrorism. Very few people know who the No. 2 person in AQ is. Nor do they care. The guy doesn't scare them, because he is not the evil cartoonish character that bin Laden has been made into.
bin Laden needs to remain at large to justify the Bushies' phony baloney "war on terror." And thus their phony reasons for remaining in Iraq.
The Bushies need their daily blood and death fix too much to end things.

Everyone knows who the number two is, it's zacharie or something, the only reason I didn't put it is I don't know the spelling. Your's is a typical Liberal answer, blame Bush for everything, shit ive even see you blame him for it raining outside. :lame2:

[darin]

We don't go after bin Laden because we don't want to catch him. Capturing bin Laden would remove the Bushies of their favorite symbol of terrorism. Very few people know who the No. 2 person in AQ is. Nor do they care. The guy doesn't scare them, because he is not the evil cartoonish character that bin Laden has been made into.
bin Laden needs to remain at large to justify the Bushies' phony baloney "war on terror." And thus their phony reasons for remaining in Iraq.
The Bushies need their daily blood and death fix too much to end things.

:gay::cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo::puke3::fart:

[nevadamedic]

:gay::cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo::puke3::fart:

That's Gabby for ya..............

[nevadamedic]

Story Highlights

The U.S. military announces the arrest of a senior leader of al Qaeda in Iraq
Khalid al-Mashadani was seized in the northern city of Mosul on July 4
He is said to have given details of al Qaeda in Iraq's connection with al Qaeda
Al-Mashadani is also said to have shed light on the Islamic State of Iraq group

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/18/iraq.capture/index.html

:pee: on all the Liberlas who said AQ is not there or is not a big presence there. :pee:

[nevadamedic]

Story Highlights

Iraq Study Group, 9/11 panelist: Al Qaeda in Pakistani-Afghan border region
Former Rep. Hamilton says Iraq war distracted U.S. from catching bin Laden
Criticizes Pakistani president for keeping U.S. forces out of tribal areas
Some analysts believe Osama bin Laden, his right-hand man in the region

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/18/alqaeda.pakistan/index.html

Like I said at the beginning of this thread, we need to hold Pakistan accountable, and immediatly.

[manu1959]

We don't go after bin Laden because we don't want to catch him. Capturing bin Laden would remove the Bushies of their favorite symbol of terrorism. Very few people know who the No. 2 person in AQ is. Nor do they care. The guy doesn't scare them, because he is not the evil cartoonish character that bin Laden has been made into.
bin Laden needs to remain at large to justify the Bushies' phony baloney "war on terror." And thus their phony reasons for remaining in Iraq.
The Bushies need their daily blood and death fix too much to end things.

you are a bloody loon.....

btw what was clinton's excuse for not chasing him down during his eight years.....

[Dilloduck]

That's Gabby for ya..............

Loony left---loony right. We got all the bases covered ! :laugh2:

[nevadamedic]

you are a bloody loon.....

btw what was clinton's excuse for not chasing him down during his eight years.....

He was to busy getting blow jobs by interns to get anything productive done.

[diuretic]

The more we aggressivly go after countries that harbor terrorists the more countries will realize that they don't want that and will turn on the terrorists themselves and not let them stay or even turn them over to us.

Or they might organise a couple of suitcase nukes.

[diuretic]

What happens to Bin Laden when we actually get him? Does he go on trial like Saddam did or does he get put to death immediatly? If he does have to go on trial why not do the trial in his absence so when we get him he gets put right to death. We have done that with several murderers like that Ira Einhorn from New York. I just really wanna see this guy fry, im hoping if they do execute him that it will be done on live tv.

He should be extradited from wherever he is caught and tried for murder in New York, Philadelphia and DC. That should see him in prison until he dies or he is executed.

That would be a real coup for the US.

[Dilloduck]

Or they might organise a couple of suitcase nukes.

They might but that's the problem. No one really knows what will happen if we take aggressive action against bin ladens' cult around the world just as no one knows what will happen if the troops are brought home and we choose to beef up security in the US. Not knowing however, has not stopped hyperpartisan prognosticators around the country from doing their best to try to convince us that they do.

[diuretic]

They might but that's the problem. No one really knows what will happen if we take aggressive action against bin ladens' cult around the world just as no one knows what will happen if the troops are brought home and we choose to beef up security in the US. Not knowing however, has not stopped hyperpartisan prognosticators around the country from doing their best to try to convince us that they do.

True enough. But seriously, if their motivation(s) is/are closely examined and I mean rigorously examined without bullshit politics getting into it, I think it would be possible to develop a strategy to protect western countries. The problem is that as soon as that sort of approach is mentioned then the cries of "appeasers!" goes up. Do you see what I mean when I say "bullshit politics"?

If the US pulled out of the Arabian Peninsula and it guaranteed no suitcase nukes in Westchester, Suffolk County or Nassau County (yes, I'm being facetious) would you think it was a good deal?

[Gaffer]

Taking out bin laden will have no real effect on al queda operations. He's a figure head. zawahiri is the real power and more important in a strategic sense. It's very possible bin laden is already dead of natural causes. His only purpose in al queda now is for recruiting and financing.

al queda is a generic term now that covers most jihadist groups. It's like a McDonalds franchise. They are in countries all over the world. And bin laden is considered the founder.

It's likely they know the general area bin laden is in if that high level prison is to be believed. But he most likely moves around a lot and al queda would have known about this guys capture shortly after it happened, so his info is only good for a short time. At least two al queda groups have been meeting in iran. Which is where most of them will go if things get too hot in pakistan.

Right now al queda is trying to take over pakistan. So things should get interesting there soon and we may be getting involved there. Another front in the Long War.

[Hagbard Celine]

I think we ought to round up a few thousand really rabid queers and parachute them in where bin Laden is hidden, packed with Barbara Streisand and Barry Manilow CDs and plenty of KY, and let them do their thing. Bin Laden will have to show his face to start picking them off, and when he does we drop a few 500 pounders on him.

I disagree. We need to take Bin Laden alive. I'm sure he's full of useful intel.

[darin]

Story Highlights

Iraq Study Group, 9/11 panelist: Al Qaeda in Pakistani-Afghan border region
Former Rep. Hamilton says Iraq war distracted U.S. from catching bin Laden
Criticizes Pakistani president for keeping U.S. forces out of tribal areas
Some analysts believe Osama bin Laden, his right-hand man in the region

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/18/alqaeda.pakistan/index.html

Like I said at the beginning of this thread, we need to hold Pakistan accountable, and immediatly.

Has it crossed your mind that perhaps we ARE in Pakistan conducting an operation go get OBL right now? Our SF does ALL kinds of TSNS all the time.

[glockmail]

I disagree. We need to take Bin Laden alive. I'm sure he's full of useful intel. If so I'm sure he's give it up after about 10 seconds on the water board. You would support that technique, I assume? Because your liberal leaders in Congress won't let us use that anymore. They call it "torture". :poke:

[Gaffer]

Has it crossed your mind that perhaps we ARE in Pakistan conducting an operation go get OBL right now? Our SF does ALL kinds of TSNS all the time.

I'm with ya on that. I'm sure there are many times they have made raids into those areas. With things heating up in wazuristan now it would be easy for our SF to go in and the paks take credit for what they do. Accomplishes what we want and makes the pak military look good.

[Hagbard Celine]

If so I'm sure he's give it up after about 10 seconds on the water board. You would support that technique, I assume? Because your liberal leaders in Congress won't let us use that anymore. They call it "torture". :poke:

See, what you don't get is that we, as the world hegemon, have to set an example that the rest of the world looks up to--not only is this a good thing to do, it's also in our best interest. Notice, I didn't say we can't torture people. The "torture" techniques we've all heard about should have been kept "black." The administration finally learned what every other administration came into office apparently knowing--that image is more important than "facts." We'd all love for our military to be the rosy-cheeked, good-willed guys we see in the "Army of One" commercials, but really they're trained to kill bad guys and they torture prisoners to get information. All militaries do, not just ours.

The stink that was made about Abu-Guantanamo-or whatever, wouldn't have been made if the soldiers and officers stationed there hadn't been stupid and sloppy. You should know that when a scandal like this happens, (One that puts the real face of war out into public view over the propaganda version), the daintier elements of our society are going to raise a stink and get laws changed. You can't blame them really--afterall, human rights and peace and prosperity and living the good life, the "American Dream" as it is called, is what America stands for--so when the idiots stationed at prison camps pile a bunch of prisoners into a naked heap and take moronic pictures of themselves basking in the humiliation of pow's, you can't blame the folks here at home who take offense because it's embarassing for the country as a whole--it makes America look bad. Torture is a necessary evil in the fight against evil, but it should be kept in the dark, not paraded around out in the light. If you'll notice, we haven't really heard anything about torture since the Abu Graib scandal. I can't honestly believe that we've stopped torturing people just because it's "illegal" now--so I think maybe the administration or the pentagon or whoever has finally learned a lesson about public relations.

[Gaffer]

See, what you don't get is that we, as the world hegemon, have to set an example that the rest of the world looks up to--not only is this a good thing to do, it's also in our best interest. Notice, I didn't say we can't torture people. The "torture" techniques we've all heard about should have been kept "black." The administration finally learned what every other administration came into office apparently knowing--that image is more important than "facts." We'd all love for our military to be the rosy-cheeked, good-willed guys we see in the "Army of One" commercials, but really they're trained to kill bad guys and they torture prisoners to get information. All militaries do, not just ours.

The stink that was made about Abu-Guantanamo-or whatever, wouldn't have been made if the soldiers and officers stationed there hadn't been stupid and sloppy. You should know that when a scandal like this happens, (One that puts the real face of war out into public view over the propaganda version), the daintier elements of our society are going to raise a stink and get laws changed. You can't blame them really--afterall, human rights and peace and prosperity and living the good life, the "American Dream" as it is called, is what America stands for--so when the idiots stationed at prison camps pile a bunch of prisoners into a naked heap and take moronic pictures of themselves basking in the humiliation of pow's, you can't blame the folks here at home who take offense because it's embarassing for the country as a whole--it makes America look bad. Torture is a necessary evil in the fight against evil, but it should be kept in the dark, not paraded around out in the light. If you'll notice, we haven't really heard anything about torture since the Abu Graib scandal. I can't honestly believe that we've stopped torturing people just because it's "illegal" now--so I think maybe the administration or the pentagon or whoever has finally learned a lesson about public relations.

Very true statements. I'm sure there's still plenty going on that we are not hearing about becuase somebody wised up. Those being charged with abuse are not being punished for abuse but for stupidity.

[glockmail]

See, what you don't get is that we, as the world hegemon, have to set an example that the rest of the world looks up to--not only is this a good thing to do, it's also in our best interest. Notice, I didn't say we can't torture people. The "torture" techniques we've all heard about should have been kept "black." The administration finally learned what every other administration came into office apparently knowing--that image is more important than "facts." We'd all love for our military to be the rosy-cheeked, good-willed guys we see in the "Army of One" commercials, but really they're trained to kill bad guys and they torture prisoners to get information. All militaries do, not just ours.

The stink that was made about Abu-Guantanamo-or whatever, wouldn't have been made if the soldiers and officers stationed there hadn't been stupid and sloppy. You should know that when a scandal like this happens, (One that puts the real face of war out into public view over the propaganda version), the daintier elements of our society are going to raise a stink and get laws changed. You can't blame them really--afterall, human rights and peace and prosperity and living the good life, the "American Dream" as it is called, is what America stands for--so when the idiots stationed at prison camps pile a bunch of prisoners into a naked heap and take moronic pictures of themselves basking in the humiliation of pow's, you can't blame the folks here at home who take offense because it's embarassing for the country as a whole--it makes America look bad. Torture is a necessary evil in the fight against evil, but it should be kept in the dark, not paraded around out in the light. If you'll notice, we haven't really heard anything about torture since the Abu Graib scandal. I can't honestly believe that we've stopped torturing people just because it's "illegal" now--so I think maybe the administration or the pentagon or whoever has finally learned a lesson about public relations.

Good perspective, reasonable.

But I for one don't consider water boarding torture. It is an amazingly effective technique that is safe and causes no permanent physical damage. It can also be used in the field under real world situations by the common soldier for real time intelligence instead of having to call in black ops.

Too bad it got leaked to the press that we were using it at Gitmo and Abu Graib. Since it did, Bush should have simply said screw you libs we're using it as a matter of official military policy, and that would be the end of it. Instead we put our soldiers up for prison time whenever they use it to save lives of our good guys.

[Hagbard Celine]

Good perspective, reasonable.

But I for one don't consider water boarding torture. It is an amazingly effective technique that is safe and causes no permanent physical damage. It can also be used in the field under real world situations by the common soldier for real time intelligence instead of having to call in black ops.

Too bad it got leaked to the press that we were using it at Gitmo and Abu Graib. Since it did, Bush should have simply said screw you libs we're using it as a matter of official military policy, and that would be the end of it. Instead we put our soldiers up for prison time whenever they use it to save lives of our good guys.

No, we put our soldiers up for prison time whenever they get *caught* using it because it IS torture and officially, the US military doesn't torture pow's. The US military even trains some soldiers by putting them through waterboarding so they can experience it and learn how to counteract it enough to resist being tortured by an enemy. It's torture, make no mistake about it. It's the same concept as drowning a person. You're basically replacing their airflow with water.

[nevadamedic]

Has it crossed your mind that perhaps we ARE in Pakistan conducting an operation go get OBL right now? Our SF does ALL kinds of TSNS all the time.

Of course we are. The CIA and SF are probably there right now as were talking. But we need a show of force to make that country realize that were not fucking around anymore.

[nevadamedic]

I'm with ya on that. I'm sure there are many times they have made raids into those areas. With things heating up in wazuristan now it would be easy for our SF to go in and the paks take credit for what they do. Accomplishes what we want and makes the pak military look good.

Yea but im sure he is heavily guarded. It wont be that easy to do a snatch and grab without a major fight. if we are successful isn't it considered an act of war sending our troops into a country to do a snatch and grab?

[Kathianne]

Yea but im sure he is heavily guarded. It wont be that easy to do a snatch and grab without a major fight. if we are successful isn't it considered an act of war sending our troops into a country to do a snatch and grab?

Why would we want to 'grab'? No benefit to that. Kill.

[nevadamedic]

Im sure when we catch Bin Laden and his lover that #2 guy that they will be getting their ass beat and tortured on a daily basis. I for one would take pleasure in doing that myself. Ive even thought of a good technique, placing their balls flat against the pavement and hitting them with a hammer.:salute:

[nevadamedic]

Why would we want to 'grab'? No benefit to that. Kill.

Because we wanna torture that mother fucker before he dies.

[Hagbard Celine]

Im sure when we catch Bin Laden and his lover that #2 guy that they will be getting their ass beat and tortured on a daily basis. I for one would take pleasure in doing that myself. Ive even thought of a good technique, placing their balls flat against the pavement and hitting them with a hammer.:salute:

*cringe*

[nevadamedic]

*cringe*

It's hard to think about but it's what should happen!

[glockmail]

No, we put our soldiers up for prison time whenever they get *caught* using it because it IS torture and officially, the US military doesn't torture pow's. The US military even trains some soldiers by putting them through waterboarding so they can experience it and learn how to counteract it enough to resist being tortured by an enemy. It's torture, make no mistake about it. It's the same concept as drowning a person. You're basically replacing their airflow with water.

You make them think you are replacing their air with water; That ain't torture.

But it is interesting that you have no problem having our soldiers be the fall guys for an unnofficial policy. Perhas that is a difference between libs and cons, in that I expect a leader to lead, make the difficult decisions, and man up for them. That's why I think Bush or whoever is Prez should simply state that we will use whatever technique we need to on an enemy combatant who does not technically qualify as a POW. That means that terrorists are all fair game.

[Hagbard Celine]

You make them think you are replacing their air with water; That ain't torture.

But it is interesting that you have no problem having our soldiers be the fall guys for an unnofficial policy. Perhas that is a difference between libs and cons, in that I expect a leader to lead, make the difficult decisions, and man up for them. That's why I think Bush or whoever is Prez should simply state that we will use whatever technique we need to on an enemy combatant who does not technically qualify as a POW. That means that terrorists are all fair game.

That's because "tact" is a foreign concept to you. You can't go rampaging around like a pissed-off gorilla and expect people to like you or to even be seen with you. As much as you may hate to admit it, there is a world community out there and from time to time we have to kiss a little political butt to get what's best for the nation.

And don't put that lame crap on me about "the troops." Of course it bothers me when low-level people get in trouble just for following orders, but peons have been taking the fall for swinging dicks since the dawn of man. I'm just being realistic.

:laugh: Also, take a look at this: Read the first sentence... :laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

[nevadamedic]

You make them think you are replacing their air with water; That ain't torture.

But it is interesting that you have no problem having our soldiers be the fall guys for an unnofficial policy. Perhas that is a difference between libs and cons, in that I expect a leader to lead, make the difficult decisions, and man up for them. That's why I think Bush or whoever is Prez should simply state that we will use whatever technique we need to on an enemy combatant who does not technically qualify as a POW. That means that terrorists are all fair game.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[nevadamedic]

That's because "tact" is a foreign concept to you. You can't go rampaging around like a pissed-off gorilla and expect people to like you or to even be seen with you. As much as you may hate to admit it, there is a world community out there and from time to time we have to kiss a little political butt to get what's best for the nation.

And don't put that lame crap on me about "the troops." Of course it bothers me when low-level people get in trouble just for following orders, but peons have been taking the fall for swinging dicks since the dawn of man. I'm just being realistic.

:laugh: Also, take a look at this: Read the first sentence... :laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

You can never believe everything you read on Wikopedia. They are only accurate about 5% of the time. Anyone can input anything on there which leave a lot of room for error and nothing is verified.

[Hagbard Celine]

You can never believe everything you read on Wikopedia. They are only accurate about 5% of the time. Anyone can input anything on there which leave a lot of room for error and nothing is verified.

Sounds like a case for the waahburger and frenchcries.

[diuretic]

Taking out bin laden will have no real effect on al queda operations. He's a figure head. zawahiri is the real power and more important in a strategic sense. It's very possible bin laden is already dead of natural causes. His only purpose in al queda now is for recruiting and financing.

al queda is a generic term now that covers most jihadist groups. It's like a McDonalds franchise. They are in countries all over the world. And bin laden is considered the founder.

It's likely they know the general area bin laden is in if that high level prison is to be believed. But he most likely moves around a lot and al queda would have known about this guys capture shortly after it happened, so his info is only good for a short time. At least two al queda groups have been meeting in iran. Which is where most of them will go if things get too hot in pakistan.

Right now al queda is trying to take over pakistan. So things should get interesting there soon and we may be getting involved there. Another front in the Long War.

Why would AQ want to take over Pakistan? I mean it's one thing being a terrorist organisation but it's another running a country, Hamas found that out.

[manu1959]

Im sure when we catch Bin Laden and his lover that #2 guy that they will be getting their ass beat and tortured on a daily basis. I for one would take pleasure in doing that myself. Ive even thought of a good technique, placing their balls flat against the pavement and hitting them with a hammer.:salute:

ever read Gulag? the russian used to strip ya naked....sit ya on a stool....then step on your balls till they popped

[nevadamedic]

ever read Gulag? the russian used to strip ya naked....sit ya on a stool....then step on your balls till they popped

Yikes!

[mrg666]

if binladen is ever caught or killed he will become a martyr the only satisfaction we get is that he is dead or locked up the repercushions would be astronomical.
but having said that the inteligent ones must be dead now looking at the second wave of london bombers we are left with the no brainers :laugh2:

[Gaffer]

Why would AQ want to take over Pakistan? I mean it's one thing being a terrorist organisation but it's another running a country, Hamas found that out.

They had taken over afganhistan. They want control of all the countries. Pakistan would give them a major country with an infrastructure and nuclear weapons. iraq gives them a base country to operate from as well. They are not interested in running the country for the betterment of the people. They want it as a source of manpower and weapons.

[diuretic]

They had taken over afganhistan. They want control of all the countries. Pakistan would give them a major country with an infrastructure and nuclear weapons. iraq gives them a base country to operate from as well. They are not interested in running the country for the betterment of the people. They want it as a source of manpower and weapons.

Who took over Afghanistan?

[glockmail]

That's because "tact" is a foreign concept to you. You can't go rampaging around like a pissed-off gorilla and expect people to like you or to even be seen with you. As much as you may hate to admit it, there is a world community out there and from time to time we have to kiss a little political butt to get what's best for the nation.

And don't put that lame crap on me about "the troops." Of course it bothers me when low-level people get in trouble just for following orders, but peons have been taking the fall for swinging dicks since the dawn of man. I'm just being realistic.

:laugh: Also, take a look at this: Read the first sentence... :laugh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding

Don't give me the pissed of gorrilla BS. Diplomacy only works when you have a strong negotiating position. In the realm of international politics that means that you have something they need and can't get anywhere elses or you have the ability to kill them.

"Swinging Dicks". Good one. LOL. But a strong leader is willing to be the tip of the spear. Remember "The Buck Stops Here"?

Wikipedia contributors typically have a political agenda. This one proves it.

[diuretic]

Don't give me the pissed of gorrilla BS. Diplomacy only works when you have a strong negotiating position. In the realm of international politics that means that you have something they need and can't get anywhere elses or you have the ability to kill them.

"Swinging Dicks". Good one. LOL. But a strong leader is willing to be the tip of the spear. Remember "The Buck Stops Here"?

Wikipedia contributors typically have a political agenda. This one proves it.

Not only do you need to have the ability you have to have the will. The will to destroy your enemy is constrained now, I'd go so far as to say it's amost impossible to any civilised nation and that's no bad thing in this modern world.

[glockmail]

Not only do you need to have the ability you have to have the will. The will to destroy your enemy is constrained now, I'd go so far as to say it's amost impossible to any civilised nation and that's no bad thing in this modern world. Alll we need to do is push a few buttons and most of our muzzy problems will vaporize.