Chicago!

[Elessar]

Murder Rate in Chicago up 84%...

Good job, Liberal Dems!

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/03/29/the-murder-rate-in-chicago-is-up-84-percent-this-year/21335110/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl29%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D65246013 9_htmlws-main-bb

[aboutime]

Murder Rate in Chicago up 84%...

Good job, Liberal Dems!

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/03/29/the-murder-rate-in-chicago-is-up-84-percent-this-year/21335110/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl29%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D65246013 9_htmlws-main-bb


Nothing can beat that great, old, Al Capone/Rahm Emanuel/Obama Chicago Windy Acorn effect of Black on Black...pays off for increased Federal Spending...backed by the INJustice Department of Lynch and Company...Home Office-Ferguson Mo. and Baltimore Md.

BLACK LIVES ONLY MATTER IF YOU CAN RUN FASTER THAN THE BULLET.

[Trigg]

Almost 50 homicides a month so far, I think they're up to 145. Worst start to the year in decades.


My son drove through there a couple of weeks ago, I have to say it made me nervous and I asked him to call when he got to the other side.

[Kathianne]

There's no way to 'defend' what's happening in Chicago, basically it's the gangs that have in many instances worked in cahoots with police and businesses and politicians, thus the 'Capone' or 'mafia-like' comparisons hold some merit.

On the other hand, unlike the mafia, the carnage is a bit more widespread, though still mostly clustered in certain neighborhoods, where the gangs are dominant.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/

My youngest son lives and works in the city, his neighborhood is solid in a low crime area, a mile from Wrigley and 3 from the Lake. The one murder in their area had literally tens of cops and detectives show up, much like any suburb would.

[Voted4Reagan]

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 126
Shot & Wounded: 669
Total Shot: 795
Total Homicides: 144

http://heyjackass.com/

That's just in 3 months folks!!!

[Gunny]

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 126
Shot & Wounded: 669
Total Shot: 795
Total Homicides: 144

http://heyjackass.com/

That's just in 3 months folks!!!

I heard something today that like 89% of blacks are killed by blacks. Whites aren't doing a lot better (somewhere in the 60 percentile range). Just seems if all these Black Lies Matters assclowns want to bitch they might want to clean their own house first.

[aboutime]

http://icansayit.com/images/capone2.jpg

[Elessar]

I heard something today that like 89% of blacks are killed by blacks. Whites aren't doing a lot better (somewhere in the 60 percentile range). Just seems if all these Black Lies Matters assclowns want to bitch they might want to clean their own house first.

I've been saying that since I first came here, listening to and reading that idiotic "Black Lives Matter" horseshit.

All lives matter. Those ↑ just want to live out their lives with a victim mentality, not having the gumption to improve themselves.

[Elessar]

There's no way to 'defend' what's happening in Chicago, basically it's the gangs that have in many instances worked in cahoots with police and businesses and politicians, thus the 'Capone' or 'mafia-like' comparisons hold some merit.

On the other hand, unlike the mafia, the carnage is a bit more widespread, though still mostly clustered in certain neighborhoods, where the gangs are dominant.

http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings/

My youngest son lives and works in the city, his neighborhood is solid in a low crime area, a mile from Wrigley and 3 from the Lake. The one murder in their area had literally tens of cops and detectives show up, much like any suburb would.

My Dad was born and raised in Cicero during the Capone era.

He said growing up there was...interesting!

[Voted4Reagan]

I heard something today that like 89% of blacks are killed by blacks. Whites aren't doing a lot better (somewhere in the 60 percentile range). Just seems if all these Black Lies Matters assclowns want to bitch they might want to clean their own house first.

Gunny.. remember... Chicago has a population of 2,695,598 (and dropping daily from Lead Poisoning :boom2:).

That is about 1/3 the size of NYC.

In 2015 NYC had 352 Homicides in all 5 boroughs.

in 2015 Chicago had 506 Homicides.

that is the same as NYC having 1518 Murders!!

[Voted4Reagan]

Update... 4-19-2016

Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 152
Shot & Wounded: 834
Total Shot: 986
Total Homicides: 172

[Abbey Marie]

Murder Rate in Chicago up 84%...

Good job, Liberal Dems!

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/03/29/the-murder-rate-in-chicago-is-up-84-percent-this-year/21335110/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl29%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D65246013 9_htmlws-main-bb


Hmm. Kathianne moves out, murder rate goes up. I think maybe she was doing more than teaching there!

[Black Diamond]

Hmm. Kathianne moves out, murder rate goes up. I think maybe she was doing more than teaching there!

I knew she was a ball busting bastard. :cool:

[Kathianne]

My Dad was born and raised in Cicero during the Capone era.

He said growing up there was...interesting!

My mom dated a gangster once. It was a blind date during the war. LOL! She hadn't a clue to who he was until they went to dinner and the restaurant staff were falling all over him. She nearly killed her best friend. ;)

[Kathianne]

Well I'm a brave 'ball buster.' Heading to 'the city' for a week in June. (Yeah, most of the time will be in the suburbs and Milwaukee for a wedding, but what the heck! I will stay a night or two with youngest son. Pretty excited they have a new coffee shop opening this week and Lou Malnoti's (http://www.loumalnatis.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwrte4BRD-oYi3y5_AhZ4BEiQAzIFxn2j3JoiZ2mPVDSNgxI4DqXFi-XX2mn8UixO_pxvyTvUaAnn-8P8HAQ) opened next to it a few months ago.

One day we're all going to Lincoln Park Zoo (http://www.lpzoo.org/animals) with the grandkids, can't wait for that.

[Gunny]

My mom dated a gangster once. It was a blind date during the war. LOL! She hadn't a clue to who he was until they went to dinner and the restaurant staff were falling all over him. She nearly killed her best friend. ;)

I've never heard of a blind date working out. :laugh:

[Kathianne]

I've never heard of a blind date working out. :laugh:

My mom was 'hot' in the 40's. LOL! She looked a lot like a very thin Elizabeth Taylor according to one of my friends growing up. ;) Her eyes were blue grey instead of violet, but she had that jet black hair and great cheek bones. Lucky me, I got her height and more of my dad's features. :laugh2:

[namvet]

I used to fly up there a lot for training. but that was back in the days when the most serious threats were the cab drivers :laugh:

[Elessar]

Hmm. Kathianne moves out, murder rate goes up. I think maybe she was doing more than teaching there!

Holy Cow!

We've got a pistol shootin' Mama Here? :laugh:

[namvet]

meaner than we thought

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/07/13/article-2173107-140CF21B000005DC-57_964x660.jpg

[Kathianne]

Holy Cow!

We've got a pistol shootin' Mama Here? :laugh:

Hardly! While I may go shooting now in AZ, never handled a gun in IL.

[Abbey Marie]

My mom dated a gangster once. It was a blind date during the war. LOL! She hadn't a clue to who he was until they went to dinner and the restaurant staff were falling all over him. She nearly killed her best friend. ;)

Back in my Bronx teenager days, I dated a guy whose dad was always working on an adding machine at night in their kitchen. At first, I was told he ran a restaurant. After a while my boyfriend admitted to me that his dad was a bookie, and a former lookout guy for Joe Valachi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Valachi)
(I was told that to be a lookout was to watch for potential problems while a hit went down).

I remember that whenever he borrowed his father's car to take me out, the glove compartment was locked, and he told me it was never to be opened. I always assumed it held a gun used in Mafia hits, and it was always weirdly exciting to be in that car!

[Kathianne]

Back in my Bronx teenager days, I dated a guy whose dad was always working on an adding machine at night in their kitchen. At first, I was told he ran a restaurant. After a while my boyfriend admitted to me that his dad was a bookie, and a former lookout guy for Joe Valachi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Valachi)
(I was told that to be a lookout was to watch for potential problems while a hit went down).

I remember that whenever he borrowed his father's car to take me out, the glove compartment was locked, and he told me it was never to be opened. I always assumed it held a gun used in Mafia hits, and it was always weirdly exciting to be in that car!

You wild girl, you! Who'd have thunk?

[Gunny]

Y'all dang womens is criminals. :laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

You wild girl, you! Who'd have thunk?


Oh Kath, the tales we could tell, right?

Which gives me an idea for a thread...

[Gunny]

Oh Kath, the tales we could tell, right?

Which gives me an idea for a thread...

I think this is where I just shut up. Let it just suffice that I was more dangerous and lived a more dangerous life BEFORE I was a Marine. I joined the Marines to escape, NOT for the pay. :laugh::laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

I think this is where I just shut up. Let it just suffice that I was more dangerous and lived a more dangerous life BEFORE I was a Marine. I joined the Marines to escape, NOT for the pay. :laugh::laugh:


Gunny, I am just going to say, if you led some kind of innocent follow all the rules life as a young man, I'd be very disappointed!

:cool:

[Elessar]

I remember that whenever he borrowed his father's car to take me out, the glove compartment was locked, and he told me it was never to be opened. I always assumed it held a gun used in Mafia hits, and it was always weirdly exciting to be in that car!

Interesting....but I won't tell! :laugh:

[Elessar]

Oh Kath, the tales we could tell, right?

Which gives me an idea for a thread...

That is a wild and intriguing idea! Do Tell!
I'll close my eyes!:laugh:

[Abbey Marie]

That is a wild and intriguing idea! Do Tell!
I'll close my eyes!:laugh:

It's in the Lounge, but you will be disappointed!

[Russ]

I've never heard of a blind date working out. :laugh:

Here's a story for you, Gunny. Way back in college, a friend of mine somehow got two tickets to a big concert on campus, but he had no date to take with him. On a whim, he decided to take a student directory, open it to a random page, and then bring a pen down on the open page on a random spot. The pen came down next to the name of a female student (luckily for him, I suppose) in his class, and he picked up a phone and called her.

He said something to the effect of "You don't know me, but I have two tickets to the concert and no one to go with, and I actually got your name by picking it out of the student directory. How about going with me to the concert?"

She ended up saying "okay", and they ended up getting married after college. True story.

[Gunny]

Gunny, I am just going to say, if you led some kind of innocent follow all the rules life as a young man, I'd be very disappointed!

:cool:

While I realize this thread is called "Chicago" (which by the way in Indian means Stinky Weed :laugh: ) I spent the majority of my teens in Miami. And I've noticed over the years living in DC, San Diego, San Antonio, Naha to name a few -- big cities are the same. Had I been put on Miami Vice I guarantee you it would NOT have been as Crockett or Tubbs. I should have frequent flyer miles from the Dade County jail. :laugh: I HAD to get out.

Which brings me to my point: This is why I have no tolerance for all these minorities crying their little butts off and ZERO tolerance for people like Sharpton that enable them to just swill in their own p*ss. If you have the WILL to get out, you can. It just requires some work. I made more money in a week in Miami than I made in 3 months in the Corps and did a whole lot less work.

It just wasn't worth my soul.

[pete311]

Well I'm a brave 'ball buster.' Heading to 'the city' for a week in June. (Yeah, most of the time will be in the suburbs and Milwaukee for a wedding, but what the heck! I will stay a night or two with youngest son. Pretty excited they have a new coffee shop opening this week and Lou Malnoti's (http://www.loumalnatis.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjwrte4BRD-oYi3y5_AhZ4BEiQAzIFxn2j3JoiZ2mPVDSNgxI4DqXFi-XX2mn8UixO_pxvyTvUaAnn-8P8HAQ) opened next to it a few months ago.

One day we're all going to Lincoln Park Zoo (http://www.lpzoo.org/animals) with the grandkids, can't wait for that.

What suburb? I live in Milwaukee ;)

[Kathianne]

What suburb? I live in Milwaukee ;)

My kids live in IL suburbs of Naperville and St. Charles. Youngest is in Chicago.

My niece is getting married in Milwaukee, she and her fiance are Marquette Alums. Reception is at Harley-Davidson Museum.

[pete311]

I've been saying that since I first came here, listening to and reading that idiotic "Black Lives Matter" horseshit.

All lives matter. Those ↑ just want to live out their lives with a victim mentality, not having the gumption to improve themselves.

You miss the entire point of the movement

[pete311]

My kids live in IL suburbs of Naperville and St. Charles. Youngest is in Chicago.

My niece is getting married in Milwaukee, she and her fiance are Marquette Alums. Reception is at Harley-Davidson Museum.

That place is awesome. Fantastic venue.

[Gunny]

You miss the entire point of the movement

There is no point to the movement. ALL lives matter. Ever seen a dead Arab baby? They're dead babies. They were murdered over nothing but spite because a certain asswipe was getting his ass kicked.

Poor blacks. They have it so rough. Don't have the newest cell or X-Box, car or tv, and want someone to give them one while I have to pay taxes, insurance, for my own phone, extortion to Comcast, buy my own clothes and food. And they sit around just waiting for someone to give them something and have learned since the 60s that if they destroy people and property someone will come along and hand them crap to keep them quiet. Yet we wonder why our kids have no sense of responsibility. THAT is the point.

Go get a damned job instead of running around in the street running your damned mouth.

[indago]

Here's the good ol' entrepreneurial spirit...

article/video (http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/man-went-on-carjacking-spree-that-ended-at-chrysler-plant-fbi-says)

[Russ]

You miss the entire point of the movement

Here's the basic points of the Black Lives Matter movement:

The "official" point of BLM - That black life isn't valued as much as other races by the police, and the result is unwarranted or malicious shootings of black crime suspects.

The "underlying" point of BLM - To use any shooting of a black crime suspect as justification for political power.

The pathetic truth about BLM - Most shootings of young black men occur overwhelmingly at the hands of other black men, in drug or gang related circumstances, and police in the black neighborhoods prevents the killings from being a lot more. But the accusations and prosecutions of police, demanded by BLM, has the end result of making the police stay out of black neighborhoods, or not act on crime when they are there. After all, if they confront a black criminal, BLM will make sure they go to jail. So the police no longer prevent crime in black neighborhoods, and places like Baltimore see shootings and killings skyrocket. Its a grim reminder of "be careful what you ask for".

[Jeff]

I heard something today that like 89% of blacks are killed by blacks. Whites aren't doing a lot better (somewhere in the 60 percentile range). Just seems if all these Black Lies Matters assclowns want to bitch they might want to clean their own house first.

They don't care who is doing the shooting, it's makes to much sense, it's much easier and more convenient to just blame the peckerwoods.

[Gunny]

They don't care who is doing the shooting, it's makes to much sense, it's much easier and more convenient to just blame the peckerwoods.

I take offense to that. I ain't no peckerwood. You can call me white trash, trailer trash, hillbilly redneck and anything else. You can even call me a d*ck. But I ain't no peckerwood.

[Jeff]

I take offense to that. I ain't no peckerwood. You can call me white trash, trailer trash, hillbilly redneck and anything else. You can even call me a d*ck. But I ain't no peckerwood.

Personally I couldn't give a rat's ass about a name, but bro if ya don't realize in many areas that is exactly what you are being called, well then you would of have lived a sheltered life. Myself the first time I heard that term I laughed about it all day, a friend of mine ( a black dude ) and I where going back and forth with racial names and HD came out with that, it cracked me up.

[indago]

I take offense to that. I ain't no peckerwood. You can call me white trash, trailer trash, hillbilly redneck and anything else. You can even call me a d*ck. But I ain't no peckerwood.

How do you know that?

[Jeff]

How do you know that?

How does he know that ??? Hell he just told us lol

[indago]

How does he know that ??? Hell he just told us lol

He tells us a lot of things...

[pete311]

Here's the basic points of the Black Lives Matter movement:

The "official" point of BLM - That black life isn't valued as much as other races by the police, and the result is unwarranted or malicious shootings of black crime suspects.

The "underlying" point of BLM - To use any shooting of a black crime suspect as justification for political power.


You can disagree with the politics and the organization, but the statistics don't lie. Blacks are treated differently. It's not just about shootings. It's about harassment, sentencing and education.

[Kathianne]

You can disagree with the politics and the organization, but the statistics don't lie. Blacks are treated differently. It's not just about shootings. It's about harassment, sentencing and education.

Actually not so much. What I've found is the many on the 'right' would like to chalk up the skew in stats to the innate criminality of minorities.

Those on the right, would like to explain the skew in stats to unfairness with the system.

BLM is a political group that wants unfair advantage to excuse bad behavior on the part of too many young blacks and vilify police into a reactive only stance. Problem with that is the rising violence of poor inner city neighborhoods-even in MN. It's no longer just Chicago, Boston, etc.

[jimnyc]

You can disagree with the politics and the organization, but the statistics don't lie. Blacks are treated differently. It's not just about shootings. It's about harassment, sentencing and education.

You are 100% correct, the stats don't lie. But allow me to fix what you REALLY mean to say - that is - that blacks commit MANY more crimes of various flavors, and get the shitty end of the stick as a result. You don't get rid of that shitty stick by attacking cops and making up excuses the majority of the times - how about just stop committing crimes to begin with? I'm betting you see a LOT less black folks in prison or involved in shootings, if the crimes they involve themselves in were to first go down. Is there harassment and bad shootings? YES, but the majority are legit, as are the majority of arrests, just as the majority in prison deserve to be there.

[pete311]

You are 100% correct, the stats don't lie. But allow me to fix what you REALLY mean to say - that is - that blacks commit MANY more crimes of various flavors, and get the shitty end of the stick as a result. You don't get rid of that shitty stick by attacking cops and making up excuses the majority of the times - how about just stop committing crimes to begin with? I'm betting you see a LOT less black folks in prison or involved in shootings, if the crimes they involve themselves in were to first go down. Is there harassment and bad shootings? YES, but the majority are legit, as are the majority of arrests, just as the majority in prison deserve to be there.

That is not how justice should work. A man of any color should not be judged by the whole of his peers. Blacks get 20% longer sentences for the same crime.

btw, I hate when people say things like "just stop committing crimes" or "just get a job" blah blah blah as if it's just that easy and saying that will make everything better. News flash it won't, pure rhetoric isn't a solution. I live 15 blocks from the worst area in Milwaukee (mini chicago). Trust me, I get infuriated with the crime, garbage and annoyances, but there are real decent people living in these areas and the issues they deal with most people can't understand. They live in a different world with different rules that non inner city people can't understand. My neighbor is black and retired air force. He was coming home late one night and someone called the cops on him for entering his own home. 3 squads showed up and they put him face down on the lawn. You tell me that happens to a white man in a white suburb. You tell me that is fair. You tell me that retired air force man deserved that just because it's near a bad area.

[jimnyc]

That is not how justice should work. A man of any color should not be judged by the whole of his peers. Blacks get 20% longer sentences for the same crime.

btw, I hate when people say things like "just stop committing crimes" or "just get a job" blah blah blah as if it's just that easy and saying that will make everything better. News flash it won't, pure rhetoric isn't a solution. I live 15 blocks from the worst area in Milwaukee (mini chicago). Trust me, I get infuriated with the crime, garbage and annoyances, but there are real decent people living in these areas and the issues they deal with most people can't understand. They live in a different world with different rules that non inner city people can't understand. My neighbor is black and retired air force. He was coming home late one night and someone called the cops on him for entering his own home. 3 squads showed up and they put him face down on the lawn. You tell me that happens to a white man in a white suburb. You tell me that is fair. You tell me that retired air force man deserved that just because it's near a bad area.

Perhaps getting a job ain't always so easy. But telling folks to stop committing crimes is hardly rhetoric.

Btw, my neighborhood is almost all white. I came home years ago and the alarm went off, and I couldn't recall the pin number when the alarm company called. Within minutes I saw police outside of my house. I walked out the front door to explain to them what happened only to basically be told to STFU with a couple of shotguns aimed at me. Was I down on the ground? No, but same difference.

And then perhaps since they get shot at more, and assaulted more, in the black neighborhoods, you tend to see them coming with guns drawn more often. Seems reasonable to me.

[Gunny]

How do you know that?

You mean because that is a Southern term and one half the family is from NE Alabama? That's a Georgian term and I know EXACTLY what it means. I don't even care if you call me f*ckhead, but I ain't no damned peckerwood. Why don't you just go out and find the biggest black dude you know and call him nigger? It'll go over just about as well.

And I know Jeff doesn't mean anything by it and since he lives in GA maybe the meaning of terms has changed since I lived there. But don't think for a second I don't know what the term means.

[pete311]

Perhaps getting a job ain't always so easy. But telling folks to stop committing crimes is hardly rhetoric.

Btw, my neighborhood is almost all white. I came home years ago and the alarm went off, and I couldn't recall the pin number when the alarm company called. Within minutes I saw police outside of my house. I walked out the front door to explain to them what happened only to basically be told to STFU with a couple of shotguns aimed at me. Was I down on the ground? No, but same difference.

And then perhaps since they get shot at more, and assaulted more, in the black neighborhoods, you tend to see them coming with guns drawn more often. Seems reasonable to me.

If you're an inner city kid with crap parents in generational poverty and get offered a deal to sell drugs instead of working at burger king. What do you think is gonna happen? Now you tell that kid to just stop selling drugs and go work at burger king. In that kind of environment I know what I'd do and I'd laugh in your face and then ask if you wanted some dope.

btw, your situation is unfortunate but very different. The alarm trip is probable cause. Being black is not probable cause. Sorry. Next time you enter your own home and the alarm is fine and then get put on the lawn with people watching, then it's the same. I was so disgusted and embarrassed.

[jimnyc]

If you're an inner city kid with crap parents in generational poverty and get offered a deal to sell drugs instead of working at burger king. What do you think is gonna happen? Now you tell that kid to just stop selling drugs and go work at burger king. In that kind of environment I know what I'd do and I'd laugh in your face and then ask if you wanted some dope.

Outside of poor decisions, poor parenting is the next worst thing. Thanks for pointing that out. So yeah, fix things at home, fix things in the community - and a lot will be fixed. Bottom line though - these problems aren't all because of white cops, an extremely extremely small portion of black problems are due to white cops.


btw, your situation is unfortunate but very different. The alarm trip is probable cause. Being black is not probable cause. Sorry. Next time you enter your own home and the alarm is fine and then get put on the lawn with people watching, then it's the same. I was so disgusted and embarrassed.

You said someone called the cops on him? That's HARDLY being harassed for NO reason. He needs to blame the person who called, not the police.

[Gunny]

If you're an inner city kid with crap parents in generational poverty and get offered a deal to sell drugs instead of working at burger king. What do you think is gonna happen? Now you tell that kid to just stop selling drugs and go work at burger king. In that kind of environment I know what I'd do and I'd laugh in your face and then ask if you wanted some dope.

btw, your situation is unfortunate but very different. The alarm trip is probable cause. Being black is not probable cause. Sorry. Next time you enter your own home and the alarm is fine and then get put on the lawn with people watching, then it's the same. I was so disgusted and embarrassed.

You walk away. I did. And I had nothing when I did it but the clothes I was wearing. I'm completely intolerant to the excuse. From my observation, all of us have had hard lives. You improvise, adapt and overcome. If you get busted for remaining a loser, don't look for sympathy from me. I gave up my entire world to get away because I wasn't built to do the wrong thing.

[jimnyc]

You walk away. I did. And I had nothing when I did it but the clothes I was wearing. I'm completely intolerant to the excuse. From my observation, all of us have had hard lives. You improvise, adapt and overcome. If you get busted for remaining a loser, don't look for sympathy from me. I gave up my entire world to get away because I wasn't built to do the wrong thing.

ALL kids can make more money by selling drugs - ALL OF THEM. Not everyone takes that route.

I worked at Roy Rogers for 3.25 an hour and thought it was a big deal when I got a .20 cent raise! I also delivered papers for like 5.00 a week. I worked at a bagel shop getting up at 3am daily. I had a LOT of shit jobs. But I didn't turn to selling drugs. And yet when others do it, some sort of excuses are there to be made, as if its somehow ok because they were living shitty lives?

[pete311]

You walk away. I did. And I had nothing when I did it but the clothes I was wearing. I'm completely intolerant to the excuse. From my observation, all of us have had hard lives. You improvise, adapt and overcome. If you get busted for remaining a loser, don't look for sympathy from me. I gave up my entire world to get away because I wasn't built to do the wrong thing.

You were a black inner city kid? Some can walk away, most can't and it's difficult to fully blame them being in the environment they are in. It's like blaming an abused dog for biting a hand that wants to help them.

[jimnyc]

You were a black inner city kid? Some can walk away, most can't and it's difficult to fully blame them being in the environment they are in. It's like blaming an abused dog for biting a hand that wants to help them.

At what type of crime do you stop making excuses based on their lives? Is it only money making crimes?

[pete311]

ALL kids can make more money by selling drugs - ALL OF THEM. Not everyone takes that route.

I worked at Roy Rogers for 3.25 an hour and thought it was a big deal when I got a .20 cent raise! I also delivered papers for like 5.00 a week. I worked at a bagel shop getting up at 3am daily. I had a LOT of shit jobs. But I didn't turn to selling drugs. And yet when others do it, some sort of excuses are there to be made, as if its somehow ok because they were living shitty lives?

The inner city is different with crap parents (usually just mom) in generational poverty with streets boarded up and gangs controlling every block.

[jimnyc]

You were a black inner city kid?

Btw, I was once! At least I thought I was, if you saw where I lived. After awhile I started wearing my jeans beneath my ass, and that's when I had to bail. :slap:

[Gunny]

You were a black inner city kid? Some can walk away, most can't and it's difficult to fully blame them being in the environment they are in. It's like blaming an abused dog for biting a hand that wants to help them.

Got news for you, pete, but I was a white inner city kid living on a military salary that lived in black inner cities because it was all my father could afford. Maybe you ought to fork over some more money for the military? I didn't even know what discrimination was until it was blacks discriminating against me. You think when they bus you off base to school they take you to the high class "white" crap?

You can walk out of that environment. It just takes will.

[pete311]

At what type of crime do you stop making excuses based on their lives? Is it only money making crimes?

It's not about excuses, it's about understanding. Understanding helps create solutions. Because this isn't an issue of kids just being idiots and needing to be scolded. There are a host of social problems tied into this. Social services have been studying and working on solutions for decades. There are few truly evil people in the world. Most are programmed by poor environment and parenting, but it's all a cycle. Blacks being treated differently is one issue. It creates an air of distrust, repression and hostility on both sides. It's going to take a revolution in reforming the education system, providing parental resources, rebuilding business, ending the war on drugs and working together with inner city people instead of treating them like the enemy. In many ways this is like syria. You can't kill and bomb your way to victory just as you can't arrest everyone in the inner city. Break down the walls of distrust, provide opportunities and you'll see life again in the inner cities.

[pete311]

You can walk out of that environment. It just takes will.

Where did that "Will" come from? I'd say your military dad. Guess what. Many inner city kids have awful dads and some don't have any. Who is teaching them this "will" to be something different?

[jimnyc]

Where did that "Will" come from? I'd say your military dad. Guess what. Many inner city kids have awful dads and some don't have any. Who is teaching them this "will" to be something different?

Then a problem with parenting, again. What I do know, is that it ain't whitey causing those parenting issues. It's ain't whitey causing them to choose drug dealing over minimum wage. It ain't whitey that has folks call the cops on them. And don't blame whitey when more cops show up where there are more criminals.

Yes, there are issues that need addressing, but it's almost all within the black community itself, starting at home.

[pete311]

Then a problem with parenting, again. What I do know, is that it ain't whitey causing those parenting issues. It's ain't whitey causing them to choose drug dealing over minimum wage. It ain't whitey that has folks call the cops on them. And don't blame whitey when more cops show up where there are more criminals.

Yes, there are issues that need addressing, but it's almost all within the black community itself, starting at home.

Racism has a role, don't you doubt it. But that is a different debate. The problem with bad parenting is that it's now a generational cycle. You can blame today's parents, but guess what, today's parents are often the result of them having poor parents. How do you break the cycle. You must act instead of just scolding. This takes lots of investment in many areas.

The black community has a role yes, just like the iraqi gov must get it's act together to succeed, but the black community needs help from outside. We must engage, invest and break down barriers instead of shunning, condemning and moving away. The black community won't fix itself just as an abused dog won't rehab itself. At some point you need to invest resources to make sure that dog has fresh water, food, shelter and new training lessons.

[Gunny]

Where did that "Will" come from? I'd say your military dad. Guess what. Many inner city kids have awful dads and some don't have any. Who is teaching them this "will" to be something different?

Got a newsflash for ya ... maybe I did learn my will from someone. Sure as f*ck wasn't my dad. I was raised in my early life by my grandparents and he wasn't military. He was an electrical inspector for planes at Kelly Field during WWII, then an electrician. Staunch FDR Dem.

So guess what? Military dad or no, I grew up with poor people and had no more opportunity than they did. I didn't even know we were poor. We had food and clothes and a place to sleep. I wasn't aware more was required. And he was an abusive bully. I haven't talked to him in 15 years. I may have a military mindset, but it sure didn't come from him.

And those inner city kids? They can see a recruiter. It's a way out.

[Abbey Marie]

That is not how justice should work. A man of any color should not be judged by the whole of his peers. Blacks get 20% longer sentences for the same crime.

btw, I hate when people say things like "just stop committing crimes" or "just get a job" blah blah blah as if it's just that easy and saying that will make everything better. News flash it won't, pure rhetoric isn't a solution. I live 15 blocks from the worst area in Milwaukee (mini chicago). Trust me, I get infuriated with the crime, garbage and annoyances, but there are real decent people living in these areas and the issues they deal with most people can't understand. They live in a different world with different rules that non inner city people can't understand. My neighbor is black and retired air force. He was coming home late one night and someone called the cops on him for entering his own home. 3 squads showed up and they put him face down on the lawn. You tell me that happens to a white man in a white suburb. You tell me that is fair. You tell me that retired air force man deserved that just because it's near a bad area.


In my early 20s, I was stopped just walking down the street with my then boyfriend. They asked me for ID. I am white. I guess I was being victimized, and those cops were sexist?
I showed them my ID, and kept walking. Sometimes, we choose to paint ourselves as victims; choose to be offended. I chose not to.

[Abbey Marie]

It's not about excuses, it's about understanding. Understanding helps create solutions. Because this isn't an issue of kids just being idiots and needing to be scolded. There are a host of social problems tied into this. Social services have been studying and working on solutions for decades. There are few truly evil people in the world. Most are programmed by poor environment and parenting, but it's all a cycle. Blacks being treated differently is one issue. It creates an air of distrust, repression and hostility on both sides. It's going to take a revolution in reforming the education system, providing parental resources, rebuilding business, ending the war on drugs and working together with inner city people instead of treating them like the enemy. In many ways this is like syria. You can't kill and bomb your way to victory just as you can't arrest everyone in the inner city. Break down the walls of distrust, provide opportunities and you'll see life again in the inner cities.

So you admit that bad or missing parenting is a big cause of the problem, but you think the solutions can come from the outside? I'd say you need to examine the lack of logical consistency in those two statements.

Get married if you want to have children (shocking, I know!), and show personal responsibility and morals by example. Then things could possibly change. Several ethnic groups came here with nothing, but followed that basic formula and have done well.

Expecting more handouts to solve this fundamental problem is senseless.

[pete311]

In my early 20s, I was stopped just walking down the street with my then boyfriend. They asked me for ID. I am white. I guess I was being victimized, and those cops were sexist?
I showed them my ID, and kept walking. Sometimes, we choose to paint ourselves as victims; choose to be offended. I chose not to.

It happens every day in the inner city, not 10-20 years ago.

[pete311]

Get married if you want to have children (shocking, I know!), and show personal responsibility and morals by example. Then things could possibly change.
Expecting more handouts to solve this fundamental problem is senseless.

Great, who is teaching these responsibilities and morals? You can't just say this stuff, it doesn't do anything. I dare you to go to an inner city with a megaphone and just repeat your statement over and over. See how much it changes anything. Everyone with a brain cell knows what should be, but knowing it and scolding it doesn't change anything. That is my point.

It's not about handouts, but community engagement to offer resources and opportunities rather than arrests and boarding up business.

[Abbey Marie]

Great, who is teaching these responsibilities and morals? You can't just say this stuff, it doesn't do anything. I dare you to go to an inner city with a megaphone and just repeat your statement over and over. See how much it changes anything. Everyone with a brain cell knows what should be, but knowing it and scolding it doesn't change anything. That is my point.

It's not about handouts, but community engagement to offer resources and opportunities rather than arrests and boarding up business.

Pete, have you ever heard the quote "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"?

The things I mentioned are the way to effect real change. No amount of money changes people's values, and rarely their behavior.

Here's another small example for you: My husband and I were very involved parents while our daughter was in school. I won't bore you with all the things we did there, but I will tell you that we both attended every single "Parents Night" to meet all of her teachers and get an idea what they expect from their students.

Her school was about 30-35% black. Shall I tell you the percentage of black parents who EVER showed up at one of those evenings? I'd put it at <1%.

Look, I grew up in the "Projects" in the South Bronx. I could tell you a ton of stories to support what I am saying. But I suspect you think you already have it all figured out, and we don't understand that life is just unfair to "certain" groups. This is the Dem way of keeping people in victim mode forever.

[pete311]

Pete, have you ever heard the quote "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"?

The things I mentioned are the way to effect real change. No amount of money changes people's values, and rarely their behavior.

Here's another small example for you: My husband and I were very involved parents while our daughter was in school. I won't bore you with all the things we did there, but I will tell you that we both attended every single "Parents Night" to meet all of her teachers and get an idea what they expect from their students. Her school was about 30-35% black.

Shall I tell you the percentage of black parents who EVER showed up at one of those evenings? I'd put it at <1%.

Look, I grew up in the "Projects" in the South Bronx. I could tell you a ton of stories to support what I am saying. But I suspect you think you already have it all figured out, and we don't understand that life is just unfair to "certain" groups. This is the Dem way of keeping people in victim mode forever.

Honestly I don't know what you are saying. You are saying they should get married before children, learn responsibility and morals. That isn't news. How exactly is that a plan? Black parents aren't engaged. I not going to argue that. What is the plan to break the generational cycle so their kids aren't also disengaged parents? Just scold them?

[Abbey Marie]

Honestly I don't know what you are saying. You are saying they should get married before children, learn responsibility and morals. That isn't news. How exactly is that a plan? Black parents aren't engaged. I not going to argue that. What is the plan to break the generational cycle so their kids aren't also disengaged parents? Just scold them?

Yes to the bolded. Why do you discount it?

I'll bet they hear these messages at school, at church if they go, and even from their own grandparents in many cases. It's like addicts. They have to want to change.

Btw, the black generation that is dying out had more hardships, yet managed to do much better. Hmm, any idea why? Can you say hard-working church-goers minus the Dem-fostered victim mentality?

What is your idea? Give them enough money that they want to change?

[Elessar]

This is why I have no tolerance for all these minorities crying their little butts off and ZERO tolerance for people like Sharpton that enable them to just swill in their own p*ss. If you have the WILL to get out, you can. It just requires some work. I made more money in a week in Miami than I made in 3 months in the Corps and did a whole lot less work.



But led by Sharpton and Obama, they lay fat, dumb, and happy
that everyone else has to assume their load.

[Elessar]

He tells us a lot of things...

Perhaps you should re-read and listen then, hardhead!

[Elessar]

You can disagree with the politics and the organization, but the statistics don't lie. Blacks are treated differently. It's not just about shootings. It's about harassment, sentencing and education.

Shot yourself in the foot again....Stats don't lie,
but the overwhelming stats show that black on black and black
on white are staggering. Black punks KILL at an alarming rate,
far above any other.

They're not treated differently. They treat others differently.

[aboutime]

Honestly I don't know what you are saying. You are saying they should get married before children, learn responsibility and morals. That isn't news. How exactly is that a plan? Black parents aren't engaged. I not going to argue that. What is the plan to break the generational cycle so their kids aren't also disengaged parents? Just scold them?


Really pete? Sounds like you could have used a little of that honest Scolding, learning responsibility, and developed a moral compass that would allow you to understand the differences between RIGHT AND WRONG, GOOD and Bad, INTELLIGENCE, and IGNORANCE.

Too many people today always choose the easy, lazy, uninformed excuses to procreate but never take responsibility when they run away after making Children that will never grow up with both parents, and in a life of poverty.

[Black Diamond]

One can get statistics to say whatever they want them to say.

[Elessar]

The inner city is different with crap parents (usually just mom) in generational poverty with streets boarded up and gangs controlling every block.

So that is society's fault?

Pull up your bootstraps and improve, otherwise
you are just circling the toilet bowl!

[Black Diamond]

So that is society's fault?

Pull up your bootstraps and improve, otherwise
you are just circling the toilet bowl!

Some folks enjoy said circling

[Elessar]

Racism has a role, don't you doubt it. But that is a different debate. The problem with bad parenting is that it's now a generational cycle. You can blame today's parents, but guess what, today's parents are often the result of them having poor parents. How do you break the cycle. You must act instead of just scolding. This takes lots of investment in many areas.

The black community has a role yes, just like the iraqi gov must get it's act together to succeed, but the black community needs help from outside. We must engage, invest and break down barriers instead of shunning, condemning and moving away. The black community won't fix itself just as an abused dog won't rehab itself. At some point you need to invest resources to make sure that dog has fresh water, food, shelter and new training lessons.

That is a bullshit excuse. Help comes from the lowest level,
that of the individual. What you say is exactly what comes from
Liberal mind-set...give them what they want as they have no desire
to improve or change.

[pete311]

Yes to the bolded. Why do you discount it?

I'll bet they hear these messages at school, at church if they go, and even from their own grandparents in many cases. It's like addicts. They have to want to change.

Btw, the black generation that is dying out had more hardships, yet managed to do much better. Hmm, any idea why? Can you say hard-working church-goers minus the Dem-fostered victim mentality?

What is your idea? Give them enough money that they want to change?

You have brought up money twice, I have not. I said it will take a revolution in many areas. I don't have specifics or I'd win a nobel peace prize. School? Many can't read outside high school. Church is dead in the inner city. Grandparents are dead are just as bad as the parents. It's generational poverty and incompetence. What I know doesn't work is merely scolding the inner city and telling it to straighten up. That works like never. What world you want to live in? One where the community comes together or once where you sit on the outside and scold the other side and nothing happens?

[pete311]

So that is society's fault?

Pull up your bootstraps and improve, otherwise
you are just circling the toilet bowl!

I'm not interested in faults, but solutions. Again, what kind of world do you want to live in. One where you just point your finger at others you look down on or one where you actually engage and help lift the next generation who's foundations are crumbling?

[pete311]

That is a bullshit excuse. Help comes from the lowest level,
that of the individual. What you say is exactly what comes from
Liberal mind-set...give them what they want as they have no desire
to improve or change.

Again, can an abused dog rehab itself?

[Elessar]

I'm not interested in faults, but solutions. Again, what kind of world do you want to live in. One where you just point your finger at others you look down on or one where you actually engage and help lift the next generation who's foundations are crumbling?

If you want to support their worthlessness, step up to the plate.

Until they gain some gumption and pride, they will still
float in a cesspool or their own making,

[pete311]

If you want to support their worthlessness, step up to the plate.

Until they gain some gumption and pride, they will still
float in a cesspool or their own making,

Worthlessness? By what do you base this on? I volunteer 3 times a week delivering meals to elderly and provide computer training in the inner city. There are plenty of decent people trapped and doing their best. What do you do besides point your finger behind your walls?

[aboutime]

If you want to support their worthlessness, step up to the plate.

Until they gain some gumption and pride, they will still
float in a cesspool or their own making,


pete. The problem you, and the other race baiters always ignore is..When one of us attempts to help solve the problems you speak of. We are told we have no right to speak, and you won't allow us to help because to many...That is just being Racist. Truth is. The real racists DO NOT WANT racism to go away, and do not want to solve the problems of race...because that would COST THE BAITERS TOO MUCH.

[pete311]

When one of us attempts to help solve the problems you speak of.

I'm all ears

[jimnyc]

I'm all ears

Tough love at home, tough love at schools, take the minimum wage over dealing drugs, kick your friends ass if he deals drugs, report him if he has a weapon, report him if he has committed a crime you are aware of, report a crime to the police if you're aware one may be committed.

TOUGH choices that have to be made when you REALLY want something. Sometimes taking the easier route is the wrong route.

[pete311]

Tough love at home, tough love at schools, take the minimum wage over dealing drugs, kick your friends ass if he deals drugs, report him if he has a weapon, report him if he has committed a crime you are aware of, report a crime to the police if you're aware one may be committed.

TOUGH choices that have to be made when you REALLY want something. Sometimes taking the easier route is the wrong route.

Great, how to socially implement these? Some of these aren't realistic and if you don't understand why then live in the inner city for a year. Tough love at home? How do you implement that? How to educate parents what that means? Most of these inner city parents are just kids themselves. Tough love at school. What does that mean? Blacks are already more likely to be expelled. Then what. Kids skips school and hits the streets. Gets arrested. Gets out and goes back to crime. How did that help? You want the inner city to snitch? Look I get it, but it ain't happening just because you tell them to. What I'm getting at here is that it's not hard to know how an abused dog should act, what he needs to be a good dog, but you must have ideas in how to rehab the dog. Pointing your finger at the dog and telling it to be good, don't bite me, don't bark, is not a reasonable solution.

[Gunny]

You have brought up money twice, I have not. I said it will take a revolution in many areas. I don't have specifics or I'd win a nobel peace prize. School? Many can't read outside high school. Church is dead in the inner city. Grandparents are dead are just as bad as the parents. It's generational poverty and incompetence. What I know doesn't work is merely scolding the inner city and telling it to straighten up. That works like never. What world you want to live in? One where the community comes together or once where you sit on the outside and scold the other side and nothing happens?

Neither does enabling them to do nothing and expect a handout.

[pete311]

Neither does enabling them to do nothing and expect a handout.

Who said anything about handouts?

[Gunny]

Worthlessness? By what do you base this on? I volunteer 3 times a week delivering meals to elderly and provide computer training in the inner city. There are plenty of decent people trapped and doing their best. What do you do besides point your finger behind your walls?

That's not what said, now, is it?

They're trapped only in their own minds. Afraid to just pick and leave.

[pete311]

That's not what said, now, is it?

They're trapped only in their own minds. Afraid to just pick and leave.

The entire inner city just pick up and leave? To where? Leaving dozens of city blocks to waste?

[Gunny]

The entire inner city just pick up and leave? To where? Leaving dozens of city blocks to waste?

Still no sale. I did. It can be done. Just where do you think I lived in Miami? Or San Antonio? Or Norfolk? or DC? Sure as shit wasn't sitting around sipping mint julips on my own private yacht. I had shoes I got wear to Sunday school until I started school and last year's jeans were this year's cut-off shorts. I don't want to hear about poor. I'm still freakin' poor. But I get what I go out and earn. They have the same opportunities I did.

Unfortunately for them, people like you have led generations to believe they were owed something and toss just enough crap and mindless BS at them to get their votes.

[Elessar]

The entire inner city just pick up and leave? To where? Leaving dozens of city blocks to waste?

Dozens of blocks?

They are to blame for that, not everyone else.

Therein lays the problem. Excuse them for trashing their own
environment and expect the taxpayers to resolve it.

Good on you delivering meals. But deliver a broom and some
garbage bags as well.

[Kathianne]

Great, how to socially implement these? Some of these aren't realistic and if you don't understand why then live in the inner city for a year. Tough love at home? How do you implement that? How to educate parents what that means? Most of these inner city parents are just kids themselves. Tough love at school. What does that mean? Blacks are already more likely to be expelled. Then what. Kids skips school and hits the streets. Gets arrested. Gets out and goes back to crime. How did that help? You want the inner city to snitch? Look I get it, but it ain't happening just because you tell them to. What I'm getting at here is that it's not hard to know how an abused dog should act, what he needs to be a good dog, but you must have ideas in how to rehab the dog. Pointing your finger at the dog and telling it to be good, don't bite me, don't bark, is not a reasonable solution.

I feel your bleeding heart. What I don't get is your continued analogy between those living in the poor inner city with dogs. That is as bad as those that say terrorists are something other than human. They may not be humane, but human they are.

I don't have the answers to the question of how to change a lifestyle that was basically engineered, albeit supposedly through good intentions, by the government. Wealthier, more educated, mostly white people have tried to change the conditions of 'poor blacks' through direct intervention since Reconstruction, mostly they've failed.

What had been somewhat successful were a series of court decisions, most famously Brown v Bd of Ed. Then the government further screwed with 'family.' During this time there were all sorts of programs put in place that were to 'defeat poverty,' many are still with us. There were also literally hundreds of private groups that were descendents of the Progressive Era based on Hull House and the like. The creation of Head Start by the feds led to the middle class and wealthy enrolling their preschoolers in upscale and more academic prepared programs. They recognized the need for even further enriching of their kids experiences throughout ages 4-10.

Personally I've come to believe that the only possible turn around that would be possible would have to come from those that live in the neighborhoods or have gotten themselves out of those neighborhoods. Some have had success in using programs and charter schools, but there aren't enough. Many ideas have been suggested especially regarding same sex high schools and such, but often are turned down for 'non-inclusiveness.'

While I applaud anyone that volunteers for programs like 'Meals on Wheels' or 'Habitat for Humanity,' while these certainly help the individuals, they do little to change the communities.

[Gunny]

Dozens of blocks?

They are to blame for that, not everyone else.

Therein lays the problem. Excuse them for trashing their own
environment and expect the taxpayers to resolve it.

Good on you delivering meals. But deliver a broom and some
garbage bags as well.

I'm not real keen on this part. Yes, it's good he delivers meals. But he doesn't have to wear it on his sleeve. I've worked on Habitat for Humanity homes, and post Katrina when half of NO descended on SA, I spent time unloading trucks at Ft Sam (I was out already). Acts of kindness do NOT in any way change the situation in inner cities. The politicians are as much to blame but the fact is, I haven't been in a single inner city that didn't have a road out.

Further, who gives a damn what happens to the inner city blocks? I don't see any concern when they're looting and rioting. They destroy their own neighborhoods. Crap, if I'm THAT mad, I'm coming to YOUR neighborhood.

[aboutime]

Dozens of blocks?

They are to blame for that, not everyone else.

Therein lays the problem. Excuse them for trashing their own
environment and expect the taxpayers to resolve it.

Good on you delivering meals. But deliver a broom and some
garbage bags as well.


Elessar. What pete will never mention about those dozens of empty blocks of trashed homes, and buildings is.....The political so-called leadership in most cities where slums, and ghetto's keep growing...have been proven, time and time again, to be of DEMOCRAT rule, control, and the intentional degrading of the Black society...held captive by Liars in Politics who promise FREEBIES to get elected, then Run out of town to their own Huge, Multi-million dollar homes...far from the dirty, disgusting people who are just uneducated long enough to vote for them.

[Elessar]

Elessar. What pete will never mention about those dozens of empty blocks of trashed homes, and buildings is.....The political so-called leadership in most cities where slums, and ghetto's keep growing...have been proven, time and time again, to be of DEMOCRAT rule, control, and the intentional degrading of the Black society...held captive by Liars in Politics who promise FREEBIES to get elected, then Run out of town to their own Huge, Multi-million dollar homes...far from the dirty, disgusting people who are just uneducated long enough to vote for them.

I personally saw that with Al Sharpton in the early 80's....in the Bronx.

Thus, my disdain for that skinny little coward of a racist.

[jimnyc]

The entire inner city just pick up and leave? To where? Leaving dozens of city blocks to waste?

I'm betting you would welcome the Syrian terrorists with open arms though. :)

[fj1200]

Shot yourself in the foot again....Stats don't lie,
but the overwhelming stats show that black on black and black
on white are staggering. Black punks KILL at an alarming rate,
far above any other.

They're not treated differently. They treat others differently.

Actually the statistics say that the determining factor is family structure, not race.


So that is society's fault?

Pull up your bootstraps and improve, otherwise
you are just circling the toilet bowl!

If you count society as governmental action such as the War on Poverty and Urban Renewal as destroying inner city neighborhoods and family structure then yes; society's fault.